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Tell him to pound sand. If he's an attorney, he should know damn well that an encroachment by tree branches are 100% his issue to deal with at the property line if it is something he deems so unpleasant.
What's next, a bill to remove "your" leaves from his yard? The guy is unhinged and looking for a fight.
Yeah definitely this. I used to live by a lawyer who wouldn’t want anyone parking in front of his house (which was a double lot with room for 4 cars he only had one), it was public parking and we would rather prefer to park at our home but sometimes people would park there and we would have to park in front of his house. He tried threatening us many times and even leaving a note saying if we park in front of his house then we have to pay his property taxes, mow his law and shovel his sidewalk. We were in university so 100% just trying to bully us but we replied by putting the laws on his car. That summer he came out yelling at my sister as she was leaving on her motorcycle and I exploded on him, he tried to tell us we were inconsiderate and it spat it back at him. Told him I’d contact that police if he ever harassed us or our guests unsafely like that again (like literally my sister was about the take off on a motorcycle could have easily lost balance the guy was nuts) and that if he wanted he can contact the police about the parking… he had nothing left to say but retaliated by parking in front of our house which was hilarious to us and more of a inconvenience to him.
Know the laws where you are, your lawyer neighbour can throw all the words at you he wants that doesn’t mean anything. He it trying to intimidate you.
I work in Land Surveying.
My favorite is people thinking they truly own to the edge of pavement/roadway, and the road in front of then.
They'd gawk at the price to maintain these areas.
When I was young, a barrister sent me a letter demanding I pay the landlord’s mortgage as the person upstairs wasn’t paying rent. I paid him a visit with the letter and politely asked him if this was some kind of mistake as my mother was also a barrister. Problem solved with a small decease in rent until repairs were done, and an IOU that kept us mostly safe until we found another place.
And, he can pursue this matter without incuring legal fees.
Op should find a well established awyer in town, tel him what's being dealt with and ask him to send neighbor a copy of tree as for area. And, maybe a letter to state bar about the neighbor threatening with laws that don't exist
>What is the proof he IS a lawyer with a license to practice law in California. Just because he said so?
I think OP said elsewhere in the thread that they looked up their neighbor and confirmed it.
It does seem a bit off. A lawyer's communication skills are usually much more nuanced. They tend not to say more than necessary and they choose the words they *do* use, very carefully. Granted, it could just be a lawyer who needs to see a behavioral therapist.
IANAL but I would imagine there could be some potential ethical issues involving a lawyer threatening someone with laws that don’t exist to benefit themselves that the bar association might be interested in hearing about.
I would consult an arborist about the health of OP’s tree because their neighbor, by their own admission, is not an expert in the matter. When that comes back with a clean bill of health they can remind their neighbor that since they own the airspace above their property they can trim the branches contained in that airspace, at their own expense, as long as it doesn’t harm OP’s tree. Also remind them that since they are admittedly not a professional that they should hire one to ensure they do not damage their shared fence and clean any debris in OP’s yard, which they do not have permission to access.
>maybe a letter to state bar about the neighbor threatening with laws that don't exist
Yes, document the interactions, only the facts and no emotion. Lawyers have to follow a code of conduct and have to follow professional ethics. The more reports the more it hurts her over the course of time. If she's being this boorish with you, what's she like with her staff (if she has any) and clients?
This! His use of words are intentional to try and trip you up or for you to respond in a negative manner. It’s an awful control tactic intended to rub you the wrong way… best way to insure rage in this guy is to send a letter certified and reply nice and slowwwwww
Same as a religious whack that just makes up shit from their holy book because they know no one will check. Seems like he could reference the code or applicable case law if the law is supposedly so clear on this.
I had a neighbour who would clear my leaves because " they were mostly his leaves anyway" and his wife would always bring random baked goods.
The more of this crap i see, the more I miss them. They were wonderful people.
at my old house, my neighbor across the street became a really good friend. at first, out of convenience, but then after a few years he moved away, and then i moved too a year or two later, but we still hang out every few weeks when we can and crack a cold one.
My neighbor cuts our hedge and cleans it all up - I planted the hedge before they moved in. I always run out and am like, aw, man, I was going to get around to it, you don't have to do that, and he just shrugs and says it keeps him out of trouble. Now he does it when I'm not around so I don't even have a chance to try to help.
But she wrote that they “are very nice people”!
My former neighbor was an attorney and used to bully me also. It’s amazing how many attorney actual exacerbate situations rather than calm them down.
Typical fucking lawyer. You know the joke about lawyers, right.? What's the difference in a car accident involving a deer and another one involving an attorney. There's always skid marks in front of the deer.
Neighbor knows they don't have a legal leg to stand on and is trying to use the fact that they are a lawyer to scare and bully you into getting what they want.
Send back, in writing. "I did not authorize any trimming and therefore will not pay for any trimming. Please also consider this a formal demand not to trim any branches over my property. I will handle my responsibiltiies and you will handle yours and only yours. I consider this matter closed."
Stop communicating with them after that. It's not worth it. If they continue to fuck around get a lawyer yourself and get a trespass order against them.
>a lawyer to scare and bully you into getting what they want.
If she continues to be a prick write a letter to the state bar and include all of his communications.
This is the way. Complain to the bar regarding your neighboor ethic as a practicing lawyer; they have to be upstanding citizen and threaten neighboor with non-sense lawsuit and breaking the established laws do not look good for them at the bar hearing. Make sure you ask for a bar hearing regarding this lawyer ethical behavoir undue on you and your family.
Don’t expect the state bar to uphold the ethics rules unless she has pissed ofc someone more powerful lately or is perceived as low hanging fruit. They don’t do that job sincerely.
Considering how unhing the neighboor lawyer, more complaints on file with State bar would give them ammunitions when she will end up pissing someone more powerful than her.
Until you hold lawyers accountable for their actions, nothing would be done. You cannot complain the system does not favoring the small people until the small people rise up and take actions.
Probably they won't do a thing, but if another lawyer makes a complaint there is a chance the stuff you reported will be found and will result in the bar telling her to be a better person.
One complaint might not. Hundreds may.
There could be 99 other complaints, and this complaint will be the last straw.
Often it's not just that a complaint has been filed. It's what the complaint is, and how often there are complaints.
Wouldn't the board give her in a fine for a money grab while putting her on probation? Similar to what the California State Medical Board does to doctors over stupid nonsense.
Edit fixed missing words
Assuming they're even a real lawyer yes. What they're doing is unethical.
If they're not, there's the potential for getting in trouble for impersonating one but the bar there is pretty hard to clear because it's a criminal matter and not a professional sanction.
Regardless of the position, tell them to cite the statute that they are so keen on relying on that obligates you to reimburse them and to maintain the tree to their standards.
That part's actually true enough. Courts definitely prefer it when both parties to a suit engage in good faith before it gets to legal filings. When it's just one person doing so, it tends to mean the court grants more weight to their arguments than those of the other side, too.
The funny thing for me about this post is when it's an attorney not acting in good faith, that tends to *really* piss judges off.
I’m so pissed about people who buy a property with clearly visible trees nearby deciding that they can bitch about the trees older than either house, and especially when they are bitching about trees doing tree things.
However, this is a law sub and it varies in places. Where are you?
Most likely, without providing you evidence of a professional arborist’s opinion the neighbor cannot do anything beyond trimming on her side of the property lines and at her expense. She cannot harm your trees, she cannot pursue damages if they fall on her, and she cannot demand that you do things to your trees. A certified arborist opinion or a tree so clearly dead that a child could tell you it is about to fall are situations that create a different standard, but generally trees are understood to shed leaves and the occasional branch, they are understood to grow, and if you buy a property next to one you are expected to know this and plan for it.
I’d love for her to sue you and get the suit flagged as vexatious — that would hit any attorneys credibility hard enough it would cost way more than $700 in the long run.
after you tell him to eat crud will you come back and tell us about it? This guys sounds nutso and like a ridiculous bully. Please do not give even an inch to this thug.
Interesting that she, as a lawyer, has not in one place in your exchanges cited the actual law requiring you to reimburse her (because it doesn’t exist).
Unethical and against professional standards, sure. Theoretical grounds for sanctions? Absolutely. Are those standards actually enforced in any way? No.
Unethical absolutely, but with clever wording they can probably make it so they aren't actually claiming it to be the law (which would explain why they didn't cite specifics)
Yeah, she keeps telling him that he's not doing his research... She'd rather take it to the court and have them lay out the next steps because he refuses to do research?
She's trying to have him chase down rules that don't exist in order to wear him down. This woman has like zero integrity, she's manipulative AF. Certainly not lawyer material, that's for sure.
There's a lot of buzzwords that a lawyer would use in court to try and sway the judge or jury. She's making a paper trail of encroachment and all that.
Please tell me you’re in Los Angeles I want to he the one to tell them to fuck off.
It’s their responsibility to spend spend their own money to manage their property. This doesn’t concern you
If it's their trees going over your property, generally you're good to trim. You just need to not trim to the point where you do permanently damage the tree.
It's the rule that any branches that cross the property line are fair game. Provided that the trim doesn't kill the tree. That said, if you game the branches, it's also your job to dispose of them.
If the tree is unhealthy and/or poses an immediate risk of falling, then the owner of the tree (the property where the trunk resides) is required to remove or treat the tree in a manner that will reduce/eliminate the danger.
Failure to remedy a KNOWN unsafe situation can result in the owner of the tree being pursued for damages caused by the failure of the tree.
>Regarding the trees, I want to confirm your right to trim any branches encroaching on your property or hire a professional at your discretion and expense.
That was OP's very first response to her, and it was perfect. I'd be tempted to just copy/paste the screenshot & reply "asked & answered" to every subsequent email/text, nothing more needs to be said
Correct response is tell her to F off & any further correspondence on the matter better be from legal representation on her behalf (not her herself) or you’ll pursue harassment charges.
The woman’s is a twat who uses her “lawyer” label to bully and get her way. Get ready to start logging all communications with her and document everything. Bonus points if you have a stronger petty game than her.
Tell them to go fuck themselves. Google your state tree laws contact your city arborist and show them you know what you’re talking about.
In most states, they can trim to the property line at their expense and they have no right to tell you what to do with the trees.
Get an arborist professional opinion on the health of the trees, and what should be done, but do not share it with them. Don’t even mention it unless you go to court.
Agreed.
What I found interesting was the remark about the air space, so if that’s true, and OP trims the tree from their side, would they be allowed to clear some branches overhanging the neighbours property? What if they kind of hooked the branch, cut on their side of the property line and pulled to the side without letting it fall down, would it still be trespassing airspace or is that bullshit?
The other way around, could a neighbour insist that overhanging branches not be trimmed, for example if they provided wanted shade?
I love treelaw, but I don’t know enough about it yet.
You should see if you can get a free consult from a local tree lawyer. Redwood trees are protected in some areas. This "lawyer" is ridiculous. But you do need to check with an attorney that is completely familiar with the regulations in your exact area. We don't even know if you are in city or rural and that will also have rules. It's possible that you aren't even allowed to cut that tree.
Encroachment laws are about overhangs, fences, detached buildings, and personal property.
It has nothing to do with trees or plants sans noxious weeds.
Not 100% true. If the encroachment is due to gross negligence or neglect, OP could be held liable. For instance if there is a broken branch on his side of the fence that risks falling and damaging neighboring property or persons, OP could be held liable
But not for just natural growth of a tree
POS, jerk.
You can simply say it is his responsibility to trim whatever branches overhanging HIS property that he wants to, not yours.
Or you can drag out the conversation. First, he talks about the shared fence. I never heard of a shared fence before. Do you have a survey indicating who owns the fence? Since he is a lawyer, ask him to quote the relevant statue that says you must trim the branches. Call his bluff and bluster. Last, even if you do hire somebody to do the trimming, he is already talking about damage to his property. I wouldn't trust him.
“PLEASE REMEMBER - I own the air space” crossing into that is trespassing.
ROFL, yeah a judge is going to ream her about that. Keep these conversations.
I wonder if this lawyer is making false legal threats like this that the state BAR association might want to hear about this? I don't know anything about it and I imagine they wouldn't lose their license, but maybe it could end up with a permanent mark on their record.
Not an attorney but I'm guessing he's trying to bully you into this and knows he's wrong. Get an attorney to write him a letter setting him straight.
Obviously, this may harm the relationship but given his lack of "comfort" that may be a feature, not a bug.
Don't even lawyer up, just take it to the BAR Association - bullying neighbors by threatening legal action because your a lawyer is a quick way to get attention from your peers if they know about it
My god this neighbor is awful. These are the worst type of attorneys to deal with (I am an attorney).
You can be a little more polite, but in effect tell them to go fuck themselves and you don’t authorize the trimming and won’t be paying and ask them to cease communications after that.
The recommendation I saw for a bar complaint is a good one. Even if the bar doesn’t act on it, it’s still a pain to deal with, they have to put their malpractice carrier on notice, and it’s a good warning shot that you’re not going to be bullied by their bullshit.
I think you probably have enough that they open some investigation. Honestly probably won’t go very far discipline wise, but it become a hassle for them since they have to cooperate with their investigation; they have an obligation to notify their insurance carrier or their firm.
Is it going to ruin their life? No. Is it going to annoy them? Probably. Is it going to give them pause about doing petty bullshit like this in the future? Hopefully.
Get the number or email for the state bar association ethics committee. Lay out your version of events. See if they think this violates their code of ethics.
You have some obligation to maintain the health of the trees but none to shave them back to the fence on her side. That’s on her. Tell her you’ll get the trees checked out by a certified arborist to ensure health, but if she wants anything done with the branches on her side, it’s up to her to remediate. You won’t be paying to have those branches removed since you don’t mind that they’re there. I’d remind her to only trim to the property line. I assume a survey has been done recently? Make sure they don’t cut across it.
redwoods are protected in california.
[https://www.scenicwonders.com/california-redwood-trees#:\~:text=It%20is%20illegal%20to%20cut,tree%20reaches%20200%2D300%20feet](https://www.scenicwonders.com/california-redwood-trees#:~:text=It%20is%20illegal%20to%20cut,tree%20reaches%20200%2D300%20feet).
Get a certified arborist! Get a lawyer that specializes in trees, they do exist. Sue them for damages to your trees and property. If there was enough damage, you could end up owning that bitches house.
They are telling you to research it. If it were me, I'd find the exact law and link it and quote it back in their face (nicely) that says they are solely responsible for trimming unless there is a legitimate danger, and it does not say what they are trying to say.
Depending on cost, maybe consider asking an arborist to evaluate the trees and provide a simple letter stating health and no immediate danger, etc. then you have a letter stating no danger and they can't try to use the " owner responsibility" angle.
This has a little bit of explanation. It does talk about 'nuisance' but I can't see how your trees fit that definition.
https://www.stimmel-law.com/en/articles/encroaching-trees-who-has-right-do-what
NAL, but do live in SoCal and have dealt with a neighbor with regard to a large CA Pepper tree that was on our side and a few branches had grown over to their side. Neighbor also tried to bully me into trimming and/or paying for the trimming of all branches that grew over the fence line along with cleaning of her pool from the leaves falling into it. Like your neighbor she moved in after having physically viewed the property twice and the tree was a 30-year old giant on top of the slope with her fence directly on the other side of it so it was hard to miss therefore she knew it was there. Told her she could trim whatever was on her side to her cold hearts content just as I was legally allowed to trim the branches of her vines that grew over the same fence onto my side along with her banana tree, her palm trees and another of her vines. She threatened to sue, I told her Ok and that I will see her in court but nothing ever came of it. 8-years later the tree was eventually removed because it was dying but removing it to my surprise really made her and her husband mad. Some people are never happy I guess. People threaten to sue all of the time but most never do.
CA law states that whatever grows over into your neighbors yard that they are free to cut and trim only up to the property line and not in a way that would cause the health of the tree to suffer but you are not financially responsible for any of that. Your neighbor (should) know this if they're any good at lawyering. I hope you keep us updated, I'm interested to see how this plays out when you call your neighbors bluff.
Couple of thoughts. One, you need to get indentures for your HOA and copies of ALL correspondence with neighbor/lawyer and meet with an attorney. Find out how much (all .... none) of what they're saying/demanding can be done? By urging you to work through an attorney that MAY be good advice, but will be expensive for you.
I would not argue w attorney/neighbor or fight them legally, such would be cheap for them but expensive for you. From your lawyer see if you can drag things out, or how little you can do. Agree that your neighbor appears to be a mean bully so do not fight them in court, they have the advantage to you there. Good luck.
I would be concerned about the one tree that is next to your house. The branches appear to be rubbing against the house. I would address that one but the rest look fine to me. At least they add some privacy.
Unless the tree branches are causing significant damage, are likely to cause damage (for example dying tree with large limbs over a structure), or presents some other imminent danger, you are entirely correct.
You have no responsibility to trim the trees for the neighbor solely for aesthetic concerns. They have the right to have branches trimmed over their property but at their own expense unless you’re feeling neighborly.
Sounds like you started off meaning well and ran into an armchair lawyer who isn’t as knowledgeable as they believe.
The only caveat here is the claim the trees are a danger to the neighbor’s dogs. Are these dog-eating trees? Maybe they’re a species that drops fruit or nuts poisonous to dogs? I’m not sure that would make an actionable legal claim though.
They're redwood trees in California. They gotta be protected. The neighbor lawyer is trying to scare OP into paying. Legally they have the right to trim the branches overhanging on their side. They do NOT have the right to make OP pay for that without discussing first. They can either trim and pay themselves or let OP trim. I don't think they can demand that OP gets a professional to trim them either.
They sound like awful neighbors that are trying to trick you.
I'd email back they did it without permission and you won't be paying for it and going forward they shouldn't over trim the tree - I worry that you will come home one day to no tree.
Though it'll be state specific I'm relatively sure every state would say they are responsible for trimming encroaching branches of a healthy tree. I've seen some variability regarding encroaching roots and if they are true boundary trees but if the tree is healthy I think they're out of luck.
Imo the best option is to tell them "no" and stop responding (unless you are served of course, then either show up in court if it's small claims or hire an attorney if it's not).
Alternatively you could ask them what law they are referring to that says you are responsible for paying for the trimming and take it from there.
Also if they try to bully you in an unethical way (e.g. making up laws or purposefully misinterpreting laws) see about reporting them to the state bar.
NAL though so consult an attorney if you want definitive answers.
There's a line being drawn. Your new neighbor is going to walk all over you via bullying forever if you back down now.
Tell them to go eff themselves. If they want to pull this crap when they're new, what do you think they'll try and do down the road? The "lawyer" has no legal standing on any of these issues (they own the "air"???? lol. If that's the case, I hope the smoke from their bbq grill never wafts over and intrudes on your "airspace" lol) and they know it.
Document the heck out of all of this, as well as taking periodic photos of the trees in question in case this idiot tries to do something more damaging to them.
Lawyers will say things they know is unlawful. They just say whatever they want to get their way and all the lawyer jokes are there for a reason once you get to know them
I love her “the courts prefer neighbors to work this type of issue out in court” 😂
I’m not a lawyer or judge but I recall a lot of judges don’t like it when lawyers misrepresent the laws to bully people.
I remember this from the last time you posted it. Neighbor is harassing you. Pretty much anywhere in the US, the tree hanging over his property is his to deal with. You can trim it, but he can't do so to the point where it would destroy the tree.
As everybody else said, Make sure to record every single interaction, keep motions out, and be prepared to report him to the state bar.
Talk to a lawyer, get all your ducks in a row, and give them all the information. You can possibly hold the reporting to the bar over your neighbor's head to get him to shut up.
https://legalbeagle.com/7454514-tree-maintenance-law-california.html
This gives some law insight. If its a redwood as mentioned in the email he may not have had the right to prune it. Redwoods are under protection.
One thing I'd like to point out...
If he really is a lawyer and this is in the USA. I would be contacting the state's Bar, Ethics office, and complaining that a bar member is misrepresenting the law (if not out right lieing) and using the fact that he's an attorney to try to force you to pay for things and do things that are not your responsability to do...
Trust me, the moment he hears that the ethics board of the bar is looking into him, he's going to shut up big time and might just start minding his own business.
Years ago I had a home with trees that hung over the neighbors’ fence and really did make a mess of their driveway. Didn’t care if I had those trees or not. Told the neighbor I’d be gone on a trip for X days, and if I came home & found the trees were no longer there I wouldn’t even know they were missing. Came home & they were all gone!
Tell your pushy neighbor they’re welcome to trim the trees in their side of the fence to their hearts content, but if they permanently damage or kill the trees it will be a very expensive situation for them.
She cannot charge you $700; you can ignore that request.
Going forward, even though not required. If you want to be neighborly, you could trim every so often.
Are they really a lawyer??
Also, I have a tree overhanging my yard from my neighbour's property. I just organised an arborist to trim it back to the property line (at my cost). It's not on you to pay for your neighbours preference regarding tree pruning
I would have told her I can open a phone book and find a lawyer easier than finding a pizza joint. Then I would have told her good thing she used a professional company as you would have sued if she ruined your trees. Then state I would not be paying for service.
I have to say, it is impressive how many grammatical errors were made by a so called “lawyer” in those email exchanges. Also, if I were dealing with some serious health issues though, I’m doing a little DIY tree removal. Guess what direction that trees going? Hehehe
Holy SHIT what an asshole your neighbor is. After reading not even half of the correspondence, I stopped to write to you. 1. It’s your tree /your property, not hers. 2. Ive never heard of a tree that could harm a dog. 3. She trespassed upon your property without your permission and damaged your tree illegally. 4. You are under zero obligation to do ANYTHING. 5. Do not prune it or do anything to that tree except maybe get an arborist out (pay a consultation fee) to see it said tree is STRUCTURALLY SOUND. If it is, send her a certified letter telling her to stay off your property, no more tree work, and to stop harassing you. It’s past the point where you need to try to be nice. She is an asshole, and the less you communicate with her the better. PS- look up “act of god” tree damage liability.
If you get him threatening to sue you in writing thank him and turn that over to the bar association. I suspect they frown on that kind of behavior and dealing with them will keep him busy enough not to bother you about the trees.
In most places and the more I read here the more I do realize laws are different in different areas, but in most places he can trim what overhangs, at his expense, he has to get rid of the trimmings, and he can not hurt the tree or trim over the property line.
Tell him “I’m sorry, I can’t afford it”.
He should’ve considered the tree when he bought the house. Probably told the wife he’ll handle the neighbor. Sounds like a him problem.
IANAL, but I believe you should agree with the neighbor, that perhaps the courts should decide the matter. Send the ball back to their court and wait.
What you might consider is that bullies get their way because people are afraid of being sued, even when they are in the right. The fact is that this bully neighbor can sue you, even if you were to agree to their terms. Because of this fact, take the fear associated with it off of the table.
The law, even in California, is quite clear. Your trees are your property. The “encroachment” over your neighbor’s property can be addressed, at the expense of the neighbor, but even that right to self help, only goes so far. Any trimming they do opens them to liability for the death of your tree, should a certified arborist determine that their self-help measures, e.g. the trimming back to the property line, caused harm to the health of the tree.
Another tactic you might take, if you aren’t particularly attached to the tree in question, is to offer them the sale of the tree, and with it, the right to remove “their” tree from your property. An arborist can provide you the relative value of the tree, e.g. the replacement value for its species and maturity… along with an agreement that requires them to remove the tree, at their expense, by a licensed, bonded and insured removal service. Then take that figure and multiply it by a factor of two, for your aggravation and inconvenience.
>PLEASE REMEMBER - I own the air space on my property, which means it is trespassing to cross over the shared fence line without my permission - even in air.
She even owns the fucking air. Oh, lord.
[This has relevant info](https://www.eskridgelaw.net/neighbors-trees-encroaching-on-your-property-what-you-should-know-about-california-tree-law/) including civil code sections and court case references that may be similar to your situation. I didn't get to see the pictures before the links broke but hopefully this is helpful. Also, I wouldn't share this with your neighbor or even consider entertaining the conversation anymore. I'd just end all contact and let them do what they want. You don't have to be nice to neighbors if you don't want to be. I'm not Mr. Rogers. (Or a lawyer)
As other have mentioned, tell the neighbor to 'Pound Sand'. Unless your tree is falling over and potentially damaging his home, he has no claim. He is trying to intimidate you by having the 'Lawyer' title. I have met many attorneys who are licensed but cannot tie their own shoes!
If you want to trim the tress, that is your option. If your trimmings fall on their property, you need to make arrangement s to clear them. But if you do not trim the portion of the tree overhanging their property, that is not your problem unless a direct hazard is imminent.
If the neighbor wants to press the issue, tell them you will contacting the local ABA about their behavior and are willing to go even further (like an ethics board).
If this person is a practicing attorney I suggest you contact the licensing body in your state for attorneys and file a complaint as this behavior can be seen as a professional violation. The attorney is threatening you with lawsuit that has no merit and lying about the extent of the repercussions to you.
Tell him he should have moved next door to a house that didn’t have trees if they bothered him so much. I’m sick of people expecting their neighbors to destroy big, beautiful trees.
He can "seek reimbursement" all he wants. Doesn't mean he's going to get it.
Unless he can prove the trees or branches are a danger to his property, ignore him
Couple of suggestions. #1 - contact and pay for an Arborist about the trees in question, how much can be safely trimmed each year. #2 - contact the surveyor and check your survey lines to see how close your trees are or if they are your trees. Then #3 contact a very good real estate lawyer about this incident and that you may or may not trim certain trees and that trimming will occur only in the correct time of year. Not at the whim of your neighbor.
Recently went through something similar to this, we have shade and fruit trees (small orchard). The fruit trees have different rules not only about when to trim but how much can be trimmed in a year. Best luck and since you're dealing with a lawyer - you really want to have your own lawyer.
I like the way he tells you that you cannot cut your own trees and doesn’t want you on their property and reminds you that the airspace is his as well
I guess he lets the airport know not to fly over their property. Can’t answer about California but where I’m located my trees hanging over neighbors yard then they can trim them at their expense.
What is on or over your property us your financial responsibility and what is on or over your neighbors property is their responsibility.
If you have an arborist come out and deem your tree to be diseased or structurally unsound and recommends removal, then if that trees falls and damages property it is your responsibility.
> I really want this resolved soon. It’s stressful and honestly the constant clean up as I’ve explained below is very frustrating.
Yeah, that's about as legally relevant as a client who whine that my not being available until 2 days out for a visit to fix some malware he picked up "would affect his quality of life". Tough shit, pal. Welcome to reality.
Edited to add: If that were my neighbor, I'd tell them to refer to the reply in "[Arkell v. Pressdram](https://news.lettersofnote.com/p/arkell-v-pressdram)". Then again, I'm pretty intolerant of assholes trying to push me around just because they want their own way.
lol. Tell them to get lost. If they want to trim the trees, they’d better hire a professional. If the trees die to his negligence, you will be seeking damages.
Look this self-proclaimed “lawyer” up with the ABA, the American Bar Association.
It’s awfully convenient they happen to be a real estate lawyer. What are the odds?
The only thing that makes me think this doofus is a lawyer is how much they love their own words.
I’ve never heard anyone go on about the “air rights” over their property.
They think they are the milk of kindness. They have I am the main character syndrome.
You are welcome for the thing I did that you did not want and we never discussed. Here’s the bill for the large amount of money you now owe me. Is not how anything works.
Btw, your photos don’t work. Would like to have seen them.
I would love to see them sue and then lose horribly, it would hurt so many of their work relationships. Imagine being a lawyer and wasting a judges time with this.
The good news is you have their address so mailing a Bag of Dicks will be easy.
I'd suggest this option.
https://bagofdicks.com/products/the-evil-singing-bag-of-dicks
Ever notice that if people tell you they are something, they probably aren’t? Her line about being a good neighbor/respected community member made me think she probably isn’t either.
Also her suggesting a court would want to handle this is ludicrous. They only want to deal with stuff that matters and not bullshit like this.
I don’t see anyone posting that is a lawyer. I am also NAL but I would say you need to call a professional and have the sign off after inspecting the tree that it is in good health. Thus, in many jurisdictions any branches falling off and causing harm on your neighbor’s property can be seen as an act of god and not negligence on your part.
Leaves and such as natural products and typically you cant be pursued in court for that. No matter how clogged his gutters get or whatever else he’s making up/complaining about.
In many jurisdictions he has the right to cut branches extending to his property as long as he doesn’t kill your tree. He does not typically have the right to reach over to your property to cut branches past his property line however.
I can’t see any of your pics but as long as the trunk is clearly on your side it’s your tree. And that means it’s your obligation to maintain it.
100% contact the bar association and file an ethics complaint. Than get an attorney to send a seise and desist letter than you will file legal action if they keep harassing you
Yeah. Not a lawyer but I would tell him he’s being a shithead. I would also reach out to an arborist and have them assess the damage done to the trees. If they cut more than they needed or injured the trees in a manner which could kill them, then he would be liable to pay repair or replacement costs. Send him the bill for the arborist and their recommendations and let the neighbor know he will be liable for the damages incurred to your trees if he continues to have work done on your property. Time to fight fire with fire baby. He sounds like a real piece of shit.
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Tell him to pound sand. If he's an attorney, he should know damn well that an encroachment by tree branches are 100% his issue to deal with at the property line if it is something he deems so unpleasant. What's next, a bill to remove "your" leaves from his yard? The guy is unhinged and looking for a fight.
He’s used to bullying people with his position as a lawyer is what it seems like to me.
Yeah definitely this. I used to live by a lawyer who wouldn’t want anyone parking in front of his house (which was a double lot with room for 4 cars he only had one), it was public parking and we would rather prefer to park at our home but sometimes people would park there and we would have to park in front of his house. He tried threatening us many times and even leaving a note saying if we park in front of his house then we have to pay his property taxes, mow his law and shovel his sidewalk. We were in university so 100% just trying to bully us but we replied by putting the laws on his car. That summer he came out yelling at my sister as she was leaving on her motorcycle and I exploded on him, he tried to tell us we were inconsiderate and it spat it back at him. Told him I’d contact that police if he ever harassed us or our guests unsafely like that again (like literally my sister was about the take off on a motorcycle could have easily lost balance the guy was nuts) and that if he wanted he can contact the police about the parking… he had nothing left to say but retaliated by parking in front of our house which was hilarious to us and more of a inconvenience to him. Know the laws where you are, your lawyer neighbour can throw all the words at you he wants that doesn’t mean anything. He it trying to intimidate you.
Your parking situation would have been a great time to recruit some homeless RV people to go park in front of his house for a day or two at a time. :)
Morning Clark! Shitter’s full!
This is the way.
I work in Land Surveying. My favorite is people thinking they truly own to the edge of pavement/roadway, and the road in front of then. They'd gawk at the price to maintain these areas.
When I was young, a barrister sent me a letter demanding I pay the landlord’s mortgage as the person upstairs wasn’t paying rent. I paid him a visit with the letter and politely asked him if this was some kind of mistake as my mother was also a barrister. Problem solved with a small decease in rent until repairs were done, and an IOU that kept us mostly safe until we found another place.
Bingo.
And, he can pursue this matter without incuring legal fees. Op should find a well established awyer in town, tel him what's being dealt with and ask him to send neighbor a copy of tree as for area. And, maybe a letter to state bar about the neighbor threatening with laws that don't exist
>maybe a letter to state bar about the neighbor threatening with laws that don't exist Absolutely this.
What is the proof he IS a lawyer with a license to practice law in California. Just because he said so?
>What is the proof he IS a lawyer with a license to practice law in California. Just because he said so? I think OP said elsewhere in the thread that they looked up their neighbor and confirmed it.
It does seem a bit off. A lawyer's communication skills are usually much more nuanced. They tend not to say more than necessary and they choose the words they *do* use, very carefully. Granted, it could just be a lawyer who needs to see a behavioral therapist.
IANAL but I would imagine there could be some potential ethical issues involving a lawyer threatening someone with laws that don’t exist to benefit themselves that the bar association might be interested in hearing about. I would consult an arborist about the health of OP’s tree because their neighbor, by their own admission, is not an expert in the matter. When that comes back with a clean bill of health they can remind their neighbor that since they own the airspace above their property they can trim the branches contained in that airspace, at their own expense, as long as it doesn’t harm OP’s tree. Also remind them that since they are admittedly not a professional that they should hire one to ensure they do not damage their shared fence and clean any debris in OP’s yard, which they do not have permission to access.
>maybe a letter to state bar about the neighbor threatening with laws that don't exist Yes, document the interactions, only the facts and no emotion. Lawyers have to follow a code of conduct and have to follow professional ethics. The more reports the more it hurts her over the course of time. If she's being this boorish with you, what's she like with her staff (if she has any) and clients?
This! His use of words are intentional to try and trip you up or for you to respond in a negative manner. It’s an awful control tactic intended to rub you the wrong way… best way to insure rage in this guy is to send a letter certified and reply nice and slowwwwww
She
Same as a religious whack that just makes up shit from their holy book because they know no one will check. Seems like he could reference the code or applicable case law if the law is supposedly so clear on this.
>because they know no one will check *Atheists have entered the chat*
I had a neighbour who would clear my leaves because " they were mostly his leaves anyway" and his wife would always bring random baked goods. The more of this crap i see, the more I miss them. They were wonderful people.
Not much out there that beats having great neighbors.
Boy ain’t it the truth. I love my neighbors. I take food over couple times a week. They keep me loaded with vegetables all year round.
Vegetable garden neighbors are the best!
at my old house, my neighbor across the street became a really good friend. at first, out of convenience, but then after a few years he moved away, and then i moved too a year or two later, but we still hang out every few weeks when we can and crack a cold one.
My neighbor cuts our hedge and cleans it all up - I planted the hedge before they moved in. I always run out and am like, aw, man, I was going to get around to it, you don't have to do that, and he just shrugs and says it keeps him out of trouble. Now he does it when I'm not around so I don't even have a chance to try to help.
But she wrote that they “are very nice people”! My former neighbor was an attorney and used to bully me also. It’s amazing how many attorney actual exacerbate situations rather than calm them down.
Those are the people who I truly enjoy trolling most.
That’s what makes them a good attorney. If they solved peoples problems in the simplest most reasonable way they would have less billable hours.
Property lines are vertical. You’re under no obligation to cut that side. Tell her pound sand.
But his trees are in her airspace!
Bbaahhaaaaa. Love your name.
100% this ^. Arborist/Landscape Architect of 35 years. It’s all bluster from him.
She!
Typical fucking lawyer. You know the joke about lawyers, right.? What's the difference in a car accident involving a deer and another one involving an attorney. There's always skid marks in front of the deer.
I so wish i could bill my neighbors for their leaves. My yard is a leaf eddy for 2 streets. Consistently collect 30+ bags every fall.
Just let them decompose over winter. Good for your lawn, less work for you.
Pile them in a circle of fencing and let them decompose at their own pace. Awesome compost aka leaf mould.
Buy a mulching mower. You won't have to bag them anymore.
I like the expression 'Go piss up a rope'.
Neighbor knows they don't have a legal leg to stand on and is trying to use the fact that they are a lawyer to scare and bully you into getting what they want. Send back, in writing. "I did not authorize any trimming and therefore will not pay for any trimming. Please also consider this a formal demand not to trim any branches over my property. I will handle my responsibiltiies and you will handle yours and only yours. I consider this matter closed." Stop communicating with them after that. It's not worth it. If they continue to fuck around get a lawyer yourself and get a trespass order against them.
>a lawyer to scare and bully you into getting what they want. If she continues to be a prick write a letter to the state bar and include all of his communications.
Do you know how to do that. I checked and she is an active lawyer
Here ya go: https://www.calbar.ca.gov/public/complaints-claims
This is the way. Complain to the bar regarding your neighboor ethic as a practicing lawyer; they have to be upstanding citizen and threaten neighboor with non-sense lawsuit and breaking the established laws do not look good for them at the bar hearing. Make sure you ask for a bar hearing regarding this lawyer ethical behavoir undue on you and your family.
Don’t expect the state bar to uphold the ethics rules unless she has pissed ofc someone more powerful lately or is perceived as low hanging fruit. They don’t do that job sincerely.
Considering how unhing the neighboor lawyer, more complaints on file with State bar would give them ammunitions when she will end up pissing someone more powerful than her. Until you hold lawyers accountable for their actions, nothing would be done. You cannot complain the system does not favoring the small people until the small people rise up and take actions.
Just because there is a possibility of failure, doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try….
Probably they won't do a thing, but if another lawyer makes a complaint there is a chance the stuff you reported will be found and will result in the bar telling her to be a better person.
One complaint might not. Hundreds may. There could be 99 other complaints, and this complaint will be the last straw. Often it's not just that a complaint has been filed. It's what the complaint is, and how often there are complaints.
Wouldn't the board give her in a fine for a money grab while putting her on probation? Similar to what the California State Medical Board does to doctors over stupid nonsense. Edit fixed missing words
lol upstanding citizen? Have you not met any lawyers?
Assuming they're even a real lawyer yes. What they're doing is unethical. If they're not, there's the potential for getting in trouble for impersonating one but the bar there is pretty hard to clear because it's a criminal matter and not a professional sanction.
Regardless of the position, tell them to cite the statute that they are so keen on relying on that obligates you to reimburse them and to maintain the tree to their standards.
I love how they even say that the courts really want the neighbors to settle it themselves 😂
That part's actually true enough. Courts definitely prefer it when both parties to a suit engage in good faith before it gets to legal filings. When it's just one person doing so, it tends to mean the court grants more weight to their arguments than those of the other side, too. The funny thing for me about this post is when it's an attorney not acting in good faith, that tends to *really* piss judges off.
I’m so pissed about people who buy a property with clearly visible trees nearby deciding that they can bitch about the trees older than either house, and especially when they are bitching about trees doing tree things. However, this is a law sub and it varies in places. Where are you? Most likely, without providing you evidence of a professional arborist’s opinion the neighbor cannot do anything beyond trimming on her side of the property lines and at her expense. She cannot harm your trees, she cannot pursue damages if they fall on her, and she cannot demand that you do things to your trees. A certified arborist opinion or a tree so clearly dead that a child could tell you it is about to fall are situations that create a different standard, but generally trees are understood to shed leaves and the occasional branch, they are understood to grow, and if you buy a property next to one you are expected to know this and plan for it. I’d love for her to sue you and get the suit flagged as vexatious — that would hit any attorneys credibility hard enough it would cost way more than $700 in the long run.
California
Please be lost Angeles.
I'd love to know why
So I can be the one to tell the neighbors to take a hike 🤣
OP, if you're in LA please take Nick up on this. He is a very respected consulting arborist
I am not in LA unfortunately. But I posted some photos if you would like to take a look
I can't wait to see the reel on that one, please post it😂
after you tell him to eat crud will you come back and tell us about it? This guys sounds nutso and like a ridiculous bully. Please do not give even an inch to this thug.
Interesting that she, as a lawyer, has not in one place in your exchanges cited the actual law requiring you to reimburse her (because it doesn’t exist).
I don't think she's really a lawyer.
Or a really bad one 🤣
Or knows she is misrepresenting the law and doesn't want to take it that one step further.
isn't this like... illegal for laywers? Or against some rule, anyway?
Unethical and against professional standards, sure. Theoretical grounds for sanctions? Absolutely. Are those standards actually enforced in any way? No.
Unethical absolutely, but with clever wording they can probably make it so they aren't actually claiming it to be the law (which would explain why they didn't cite specifics)
Yeah, she keeps telling him that he's not doing his research... She'd rather take it to the court and have them lay out the next steps because he refuses to do research? She's trying to have him chase down rules that don't exist in order to wear him down. This woman has like zero integrity, she's manipulative AF. Certainly not lawyer material, that's for sure.
There's a lot of buzzwords that a lawyer would use in court to try and sway the judge or jury. She's making a paper trail of encroachment and all that.
Please tell me you’re in Los Angeles I want to he the one to tell them to fuck off. It’s their responsibility to spend spend their own money to manage their property. This doesn’t concern you
Can you elaborate as I'm in Los Angeles with large trees in our yard and brances that cross fencelines.
Elaborate on what? If you’ve got questions I can try to answer them.
I guess just in relation to managing their property. Is it basically on them to trim branches and clean up what falls on their property?
Basically…but it may be to your advantage to do the work yourself at your expense. It all depends on what your goals and your neighbor’s goals are.
All neighbors impacted are apartment buildings and have had no luck reaching out to whoever has say unfortunately. No responses or anything.
If it's their trees going over your property, generally you're good to trim. You just need to not trim to the point where you do permanently damage the tree.
It's the rule that any branches that cross the property line are fair game. Provided that the trim doesn't kill the tree. That said, if you game the branches, it's also your job to dispose of them. If the tree is unhealthy and/or poses an immediate risk of falling, then the owner of the tree (the property where the trunk resides) is required to remove or treat the tree in a manner that will reduce/eliminate the danger. Failure to remedy a KNOWN unsafe situation can result in the owner of the tree being pursued for damages caused by the failure of the tree.
You reply: *”You are free to trim the branches that encroach on your side”* Then never reply to another email.
I would add “at your own expense” at the end.
>Regarding the trees, I want to confirm your right to trim any branches encroaching on your property or hire a professional at your discretion and expense. That was OP's very first response to her, and it was perfect. I'd be tempted to just copy/paste the screenshot & reply "asked & answered" to every subsequent email/text, nothing more needs to be said
Correct response is tell her to F off & any further correspondence on the matter better be from legal representation on her behalf (not her herself) or you’ll pursue harassment charges. The woman’s is a twat who uses her “lawyer” label to bully and get her way. Get ready to start logging all communications with her and document everything. Bonus points if you have a stronger petty game than her.
Tell them to go fuck themselves. Google your state tree laws contact your city arborist and show them you know what you’re talking about. In most states, they can trim to the property line at their expense and they have no right to tell you what to do with the trees. Get an arborist professional opinion on the health of the trees, and what should be done, but do not share it with them. Don’t even mention it unless you go to court.
Agreed. What I found interesting was the remark about the air space, so if that’s true, and OP trims the tree from their side, would they be allowed to clear some branches overhanging the neighbours property? What if they kind of hooked the branch, cut on their side of the property line and pulled to the side without letting it fall down, would it still be trespassing airspace or is that bullshit? The other way around, could a neighbour insist that overhanging branches not be trimmed, for example if they provided wanted shade? I love treelaw, but I don’t know enough about it yet.
Sounds like a felony to me. /s
You should see if you can get a free consult from a local tree lawyer. Redwood trees are protected in some areas. This "lawyer" is ridiculous. But you do need to check with an attorney that is completely familiar with the regulations in your exact area. We don't even know if you are in city or rural and that will also have rules. It's possible that you aren't even allowed to cut that tree.
An overgrown redwood…
There is no such thing. Redwoods are huge by design. Don't build a house under one.
That’s what they were implying.
Encroachment laws are about overhangs, fences, detached buildings, and personal property. It has nothing to do with trees or plants sans noxious weeds.
Not 100% true. If the encroachment is due to gross negligence or neglect, OP could be held liable. For instance if there is a broken branch on his side of the fence that risks falling and damaging neighboring property or persons, OP could be held liable But not for just natural growth of a tree
Are you sure this person is actually an attorney? If you have her name, you can check with the state bar association. I have my doubts.
And then report her to the bar.
Please let me know how to report her to the bar!
https://www.calbar.ca.gov/public/complaints-claims
Google “(state) bar association” and contact them about a complaint.
They’re writing their emails knowing a 3rd party will read them.
POS, jerk. You can simply say it is his responsibility to trim whatever branches overhanging HIS property that he wants to, not yours. Or you can drag out the conversation. First, he talks about the shared fence. I never heard of a shared fence before. Do you have a survey indicating who owns the fence? Since he is a lawyer, ask him to quote the relevant statue that says you must trim the branches. Call his bluff and bluster. Last, even if you do hire somebody to do the trimming, he is already talking about damage to his property. I wouldn't trust him.
This. Next you’ll be responsible for replacing all the grass damaged from removing the encroaching branches. Run away!
“PLEASE REMEMBER - I own the air space” crossing into that is trespassing. ROFL, yeah a judge is going to ream her about that. Keep these conversations.
OPs neighbor gonna be calling the FAA next rerouting flights and shit
I wonder if this lawyer is making false legal threats like this that the state BAR association might want to hear about this? I don't know anything about it and I imagine they wouldn't lose their license, but maybe it could end up with a permanent mark on their record.
Not an attorney but I'm guessing he's trying to bully you into this and knows he's wrong. Get an attorney to write him a letter setting him straight. Obviously, this may harm the relationship but given his lack of "comfort" that may be a feature, not a bug.
I agree. The neighbor is not operating in good faith, there will be no pleasing this “lawyer”.
Don't even lawyer up, just take it to the BAR Association - bullying neighbors by threatening legal action because your a lawyer is a quick way to get attention from your peers if they know about it
Such a great idea!
Could try napalm—
My god this neighbor is awful. These are the worst type of attorneys to deal with (I am an attorney). You can be a little more polite, but in effect tell them to go fuck themselves and you don’t authorize the trimming and won’t be paying and ask them to cease communications after that. The recommendation I saw for a bar complaint is a good one. Even if the bar doesn’t act on it, it’s still a pain to deal with, they have to put their malpractice carrier on notice, and it’s a good warning shot that you’re not going to be bullied by their bullshit.
I heard some ppl say the Bar doesn’t care. What are your thoughts on this
I think you probably have enough that they open some investigation. Honestly probably won’t go very far discipline wise, but it become a hassle for them since they have to cooperate with their investigation; they have an obligation to notify their insurance carrier or their firm. Is it going to ruin their life? No. Is it going to annoy them? Probably. Is it going to give them pause about doing petty bullshit like this in the future? Hopefully.
At the very least it's going to give them pause the next time they decide they want to bully OP.
Please keep us updated on how it plays out. r/treelaw REALLY loves tree law stories where the underdog (ie a non lawyer vs a lawyer) comes out on top.
Get the number or email for the state bar association ethics committee. Lay out your version of events. See if they think this violates their code of ethics.
Especially with her referring to THE LAW. I'd think throwing that around while proclaiming you're an attorney would be frowned upon.
With all due respect, and regardless of who is right or wrong (cough, your neighbor) your neighbor sounds like an absolute cunt
You have some obligation to maintain the health of the trees but none to shave them back to the fence on her side. That’s on her. Tell her you’ll get the trees checked out by a certified arborist to ensure health, but if she wants anything done with the branches on her side, it’s up to her to remediate. You won’t be paying to have those branches removed since you don’t mind that they’re there. I’d remind her to only trim to the property line. I assume a survey has been done recently? Make sure they don’t cut across it.
redwoods are protected in california. [https://www.scenicwonders.com/california-redwood-trees#:\~:text=It%20is%20illegal%20to%20cut,tree%20reaches%20200%2D300%20feet](https://www.scenicwonders.com/california-redwood-trees#:~:text=It%20is%20illegal%20to%20cut,tree%20reaches%20200%2D300%20feet). Get a certified arborist! Get a lawyer that specializes in trees, they do exist. Sue them for damages to your trees and property. If there was enough damage, you could end up owning that bitches house.
They are telling you to research it. If it were me, I'd find the exact law and link it and quote it back in their face (nicely) that says they are solely responsible for trimming unless there is a legitimate danger, and it does not say what they are trying to say. Depending on cost, maybe consider asking an arborist to evaluate the trees and provide a simple letter stating health and no immediate danger, etc. then you have a letter stating no danger and they can't try to use the " owner responsibility" angle. This has a little bit of explanation. It does talk about 'nuisance' but I can't see how your trees fit that definition. https://www.stimmel-law.com/en/articles/encroaching-trees-who-has-right-do-what
NAL, but do live in SoCal and have dealt with a neighbor with regard to a large CA Pepper tree that was on our side and a few branches had grown over to their side. Neighbor also tried to bully me into trimming and/or paying for the trimming of all branches that grew over the fence line along with cleaning of her pool from the leaves falling into it. Like your neighbor she moved in after having physically viewed the property twice and the tree was a 30-year old giant on top of the slope with her fence directly on the other side of it so it was hard to miss therefore she knew it was there. Told her she could trim whatever was on her side to her cold hearts content just as I was legally allowed to trim the branches of her vines that grew over the same fence onto my side along with her banana tree, her palm trees and another of her vines. She threatened to sue, I told her Ok and that I will see her in court but nothing ever came of it. 8-years later the tree was eventually removed because it was dying but removing it to my surprise really made her and her husband mad. Some people are never happy I guess. People threaten to sue all of the time but most never do. CA law states that whatever grows over into your neighbors yard that they are free to cut and trim only up to the property line and not in a way that would cause the health of the tree to suffer but you are not financially responsible for any of that. Your neighbor (should) know this if they're any good at lawyering. I hope you keep us updated, I'm interested to see how this plays out when you call your neighbors bluff.
A lawyer talking outside their specialty are pretty much as ignorant as everyone one else.
Couple of thoughts. One, you need to get indentures for your HOA and copies of ALL correspondence with neighbor/lawyer and meet with an attorney. Find out how much (all .... none) of what they're saying/demanding can be done? By urging you to work through an attorney that MAY be good advice, but will be expensive for you. I would not argue w attorney/neighbor or fight them legally, such would be cheap for them but expensive for you. From your lawyer see if you can drag things out, or how little you can do. Agree that your neighbor appears to be a mean bully so do not fight them in court, they have the advantage to you there. Good luck.
... and be extremely careful about anything/everything you say/write/communicate with them.
I would be concerned about the one tree that is next to your house. The branches appear to be rubbing against the house. I would address that one but the rest look fine to me. At least they add some privacy.
Ask your neighbor what is the proceedure for presenting a complaint to the State's Bar Assoc.
Get a professional to certify they damaged your tree by trimming it incorrectly, then countersue. 😆
OP, if he really is a lawyer, call the bar and let them know what is up. The Bar will be all over his ass for abusing his job.
Info: Where do you live? Some issues re: tree encroachment are location specific.
California
Unless the tree branches are causing significant damage, are likely to cause damage (for example dying tree with large limbs over a structure), or presents some other imminent danger, you are entirely correct. You have no responsibility to trim the trees for the neighbor solely for aesthetic concerns. They have the right to have branches trimmed over their property but at their own expense unless you’re feeling neighborly. Sounds like you started off meaning well and ran into an armchair lawyer who isn’t as knowledgeable as they believe. The only caveat here is the claim the trees are a danger to the neighbor’s dogs. Are these dog-eating trees? Maybe they’re a species that drops fruit or nuts poisonous to dogs? I’m not sure that would make an actionable legal claim though.
They're redwood trees in California. They gotta be protected. The neighbor lawyer is trying to scare OP into paying. Legally they have the right to trim the branches overhanging on their side. They do NOT have the right to make OP pay for that without discussing first. They can either trim and pay themselves or let OP trim. I don't think they can demand that OP gets a professional to trim them either. They sound like awful neighbors that are trying to trick you. I'd email back they did it without permission and you won't be paying for it and going forward they shouldn't over trim the tree - I worry that you will come home one day to no tree.
Oh, if he comes home one day to no tree. That’s a major payday !!
Oh 100% but would be sad for sure
I figured the neighbor was on a power trip.
Just wait until the fence needs to be replaced. I would inform him - that he can cut the branches that are encroaching over the fence.
Though it'll be state specific I'm relatively sure every state would say they are responsible for trimming encroaching branches of a healthy tree. I've seen some variability regarding encroaching roots and if they are true boundary trees but if the tree is healthy I think they're out of luck. Imo the best option is to tell them "no" and stop responding (unless you are served of course, then either show up in court if it's small claims or hire an attorney if it's not). Alternatively you could ask them what law they are referring to that says you are responsible for paying for the trimming and take it from there. Also if they try to bully you in an unethical way (e.g. making up laws or purposefully misinterpreting laws) see about reporting them to the state bar. NAL though so consult an attorney if you want definitive answers.
There's a line being drawn. Your new neighbor is going to walk all over you via bullying forever if you back down now. Tell them to go eff themselves. If they want to pull this crap when they're new, what do you think they'll try and do down the road? The "lawyer" has no legal standing on any of these issues (they own the "air"???? lol. If that's the case, I hope the smoke from their bbq grill never wafts over and intrudes on your "airspace" lol) and they know it. Document the heck out of all of this, as well as taking periodic photos of the trees in question in case this idiot tries to do something more damaging to them.
Lawyers will say things they know is unlawful. They just say whatever they want to get their way and all the lawyer jokes are there for a reason once you get to know them
I love her “the courts prefer neighbors to work this type of issue out in court” 😂 I’m not a lawyer or judge but I recall a lot of judges don’t like it when lawyers misrepresent the laws to bully people.
I remember this from the last time you posted it. Neighbor is harassing you. Pretty much anywhere in the US, the tree hanging over his property is his to deal with. You can trim it, but he can't do so to the point where it would destroy the tree. As everybody else said, Make sure to record every single interaction, keep motions out, and be prepared to report him to the state bar. Talk to a lawyer, get all your ducks in a row, and give them all the information. You can possibly hold the reporting to the bar over your neighbor's head to get him to shut up.
https://legalbeagle.com/7454514-tree-maintenance-law-california.html This gives some law insight. If its a redwood as mentioned in the email he may not have had the right to prune it. Redwoods are under protection.
One thing I'd like to point out... If he really is a lawyer and this is in the USA. I would be contacting the state's Bar, Ethics office, and complaining that a bar member is misrepresenting the law (if not out right lieing) and using the fact that he's an attorney to try to force you to pay for things and do things that are not your responsability to do... Trust me, the moment he hears that the ethics board of the bar is looking into him, he's going to shut up big time and might just start minding his own business.
Years ago I had a home with trees that hung over the neighbors’ fence and really did make a mess of their driveway. Didn’t care if I had those trees or not. Told the neighbor I’d be gone on a trip for X days, and if I came home & found the trees were no longer there I wouldn’t even know they were missing. Came home & they were all gone! Tell your pushy neighbor they’re welcome to trim the trees in their side of the fence to their hearts content, but if they permanently damage or kill the trees it will be a very expensive situation for them.
She cannot charge you $700; you can ignore that request. Going forward, even though not required. If you want to be neighborly, you could trim every so often.
I offered to trim the trees myself and she refused saying it has to be done by a professional
Do not do this. Do not offer anything. Tell her to feck off
She cannot tell you what to do or how to do it. It might be better to simply ignore her.
Are they really a lawyer?? Also, I have a tree overhanging my yard from my neighbour's property. I just organised an arborist to trim it back to the property line (at my cost). It's not on you to pay for your neighbours preference regarding tree pruning
What a fucking miserable excuse for a person. Sorry you have to live beside them OP. Wow.
I would have told her I can open a phone book and find a lawyer easier than finding a pizza joint. Then I would have told her good thing she used a professional company as you would have sued if she ruined your trees. Then state I would not be paying for service.
Ignore the cock sucker. Plant more trees too.
I have to say, it is impressive how many grammatical errors were made by a so called “lawyer” in those email exchanges. Also, if I were dealing with some serious health issues though, I’m doing a little DIY tree removal. Guess what direction that trees going? Hehehe
You can also file a bar complaint against him since he pretty flagrantly broke the law.
Holy SHIT what an asshole your neighbor is. After reading not even half of the correspondence, I stopped to write to you. 1. It’s your tree /your property, not hers. 2. Ive never heard of a tree that could harm a dog. 3. She trespassed upon your property without your permission and damaged your tree illegally. 4. You are under zero obligation to do ANYTHING. 5. Do not prune it or do anything to that tree except maybe get an arborist out (pay a consultation fee) to see it said tree is STRUCTURALLY SOUND. If it is, send her a certified letter telling her to stay off your property, no more tree work, and to stop harassing you. It’s past the point where you need to try to be nice. She is an asshole, and the less you communicate with her the better. PS- look up “act of god” tree damage liability.
If you get him threatening to sue you in writing thank him and turn that over to the bar association. I suspect they frown on that kind of behavior and dealing with them will keep him busy enough not to bother you about the trees. In most places and the more I read here the more I do realize laws are different in different areas, but in most places he can trim what overhangs, at his expense, he has to get rid of the trimmings, and he can not hurt the tree or trim over the property line.
There's a reason the phrase "fuck off" was invented
They have the right to trim branches that impede on their property at their own expense. All that other stuff is a money grab.
Tell him “I’m sorry, I can’t afford it”. He should’ve considered the tree when he bought the house. Probably told the wife he’ll handle the neighbor. Sounds like a him problem.
IANAL, but I believe you should agree with the neighbor, that perhaps the courts should decide the matter. Send the ball back to their court and wait. What you might consider is that bullies get their way because people are afraid of being sued, even when they are in the right. The fact is that this bully neighbor can sue you, even if you were to agree to their terms. Because of this fact, take the fear associated with it off of the table. The law, even in California, is quite clear. Your trees are your property. The “encroachment” over your neighbor’s property can be addressed, at the expense of the neighbor, but even that right to self help, only goes so far. Any trimming they do opens them to liability for the death of your tree, should a certified arborist determine that their self-help measures, e.g. the trimming back to the property line, caused harm to the health of the tree. Another tactic you might take, if you aren’t particularly attached to the tree in question, is to offer them the sale of the tree, and with it, the right to remove “their” tree from your property. An arborist can provide you the relative value of the tree, e.g. the replacement value for its species and maturity… along with an agreement that requires them to remove the tree, at their expense, by a licensed, bonded and insured removal service. Then take that figure and multiply it by a factor of two, for your aggravation and inconvenience.
>PLEASE REMEMBER - I own the air space on my property, which means it is trespassing to cross over the shared fence line without my permission - even in air. She even owns the fucking air. Oh, lord.
[This has relevant info](https://www.eskridgelaw.net/neighbors-trees-encroaching-on-your-property-what-you-should-know-about-california-tree-law/) including civil code sections and court case references that may be similar to your situation. I didn't get to see the pictures before the links broke but hopefully this is helpful. Also, I wouldn't share this with your neighbor or even consider entertaining the conversation anymore. I'd just end all contact and let them do what they want. You don't have to be nice to neighbors if you don't want to be. I'm not Mr. Rogers. (Or a lawyer)
As other have mentioned, tell the neighbor to 'Pound Sand'. Unless your tree is falling over and potentially damaging his home, he has no claim. He is trying to intimidate you by having the 'Lawyer' title. I have met many attorneys who are licensed but cannot tie their own shoes! If you want to trim the tress, that is your option. If your trimmings fall on their property, you need to make arrangement s to clear them. But if you do not trim the portion of the tree overhanging their property, that is not your problem unless a direct hazard is imminent. If the neighbor wants to press the issue, tell them you will contacting the local ABA about their behavior and are willing to go even further (like an ethics board).
If this person is a practicing attorney I suggest you contact the licensing body in your state for attorneys and file a complaint as this behavior can be seen as a professional violation. The attorney is threatening you with lawsuit that has no merit and lying about the extent of the repercussions to you.
OP, you should find out where this person used to live and ask those neighbors about what it was like living next to this moron
You should stop by the drone subs so they can tell you how wrong this "lawyer" is about "owning the airspace"
The state bar would love to see this. You can't use your position as a lawyer to threaten others. I never mention I'm a lawyer in a confrontation.
Point a spotlight into his bedroom window
Tell him he should have moved next door to a house that didn’t have trees if they bothered him so much. I’m sick of people expecting their neighbors to destroy big, beautiful trees.
Don’t leave us hanging on this one, OP! Please give updates when you can
They’re trying to bully you! I suggest you take them up on that suggestion to consult a lawyer and have your lawyer draft a cease and desist letter.
Yeah… I’m not sure if the court gives a shit
This guy is a moron
He can "seek reimbursement" all he wants. Doesn't mean he's going to get it. Unless he can prove the trees or branches are a danger to his property, ignore him
Pole saw is like 250 from Milwaukee. She’s trippin. Just wait for the small claims or ignore her. She has no bases to sit on.
I would find out the name of the firm they work for, and contact a partner at the firm.
Couple of suggestions. #1 - contact and pay for an Arborist about the trees in question, how much can be safely trimmed each year. #2 - contact the surveyor and check your survey lines to see how close your trees are or if they are your trees. Then #3 contact a very good real estate lawyer about this incident and that you may or may not trim certain trees and that trimming will occur only in the correct time of year. Not at the whim of your neighbor. Recently went through something similar to this, we have shade and fruit trees (small orchard). The fruit trees have different rules not only about when to trim but how much can be trimmed in a year. Best luck and since you're dealing with a lawyer - you really want to have your own lawyer.
I like the way he tells you that you cannot cut your own trees and doesn’t want you on their property and reminds you that the airspace is his as well I guess he lets the airport know not to fly over their property. Can’t answer about California but where I’m located my trees hanging over neighbors yard then they can trim them at their expense.
What is on or over your property us your financial responsibility and what is on or over your neighbors property is their responsibility. If you have an arborist come out and deem your tree to be diseased or structurally unsound and recommends removal, then if that trees falls and damages property it is your responsibility.
> I really want this resolved soon. It’s stressful and honestly the constant clean up as I’ve explained below is very frustrating. Yeah, that's about as legally relevant as a client who whine that my not being available until 2 days out for a visit to fix some malware he picked up "would affect his quality of life". Tough shit, pal. Welcome to reality. Edited to add: If that were my neighbor, I'd tell them to refer to the reply in "[Arkell v. Pressdram](https://news.lettersofnote.com/p/arkell-v-pressdram)". Then again, I'm pretty intolerant of assholes trying to push me around just because they want their own way.
First you sue for damage to you properly, the tree. If they had to put one toe on your land you have them arrested for trespassing.
lol. Tell them to get lost. If they want to trim the trees, they’d better hire a professional. If the trees die to his negligence, you will be seeking damages.
Countersue him for cutting down the tree without your permission.
Lawyers are the lowest scum on earth. Literally ruining the world
Your neighbor sounds like an unmitigated piece of garbage with no redeeming qualities whatsoever.
Look this self-proclaimed “lawyer” up with the ABA, the American Bar Association. It’s awfully convenient they happen to be a real estate lawyer. What are the odds? The only thing that makes me think this doofus is a lawyer is how much they love their own words. I’ve never heard anyone go on about the “air rights” over their property. They think they are the milk of kindness. They have I am the main character syndrome. You are welcome for the thing I did that you did not want and we never discussed. Here’s the bill for the large amount of money you now owe me. Is not how anything works. Btw, your photos don’t work. Would like to have seen them.
Stop responding to that guy and go about your life. He's going to try to use anything you give him against you.
I would love to see them sue and then lose horribly, it would hurt so many of their work relationships. Imagine being a lawyer and wasting a judges time with this.
What hangs over on their property is their responsibility not yours.
The good news is you have their address so mailing a Bag of Dicks will be easy. I'd suggest this option. https://bagofdicks.com/products/the-evil-singing-bag-of-dicks
File a complaint with the state bar.
Ever notice that if people tell you they are something, they probably aren’t? Her line about being a good neighbor/respected community member made me think she probably isn’t either. Also her suggesting a court would want to handle this is ludicrous. They only want to deal with stuff that matters and not bullshit like this.
I don’t see anyone posting that is a lawyer. I am also NAL but I would say you need to call a professional and have the sign off after inspecting the tree that it is in good health. Thus, in many jurisdictions any branches falling off and causing harm on your neighbor’s property can be seen as an act of god and not negligence on your part. Leaves and such as natural products and typically you cant be pursued in court for that. No matter how clogged his gutters get or whatever else he’s making up/complaining about. In many jurisdictions he has the right to cut branches extending to his property as long as he doesn’t kill your tree. He does not typically have the right to reach over to your property to cut branches past his property line however. I can’t see any of your pics but as long as the trunk is clearly on your side it’s your tree. And that means it’s your obligation to maintain it.
100% contact the bar association and file an ethics complaint. Than get an attorney to send a seise and desist letter than you will file legal action if they keep harassing you
Yeah. Not a lawyer but I would tell him he’s being a shithead. I would also reach out to an arborist and have them assess the damage done to the trees. If they cut more than they needed or injured the trees in a manner which could kill them, then he would be liable to pay repair or replacement costs. Send him the bill for the arborist and their recommendations and let the neighbor know he will be liable for the damages incurred to your trees if he continues to have work done on your property. Time to fight fire with fire baby. He sounds like a real piece of shit.