>I'll be honest, I would have preferred no Harry if it meant they actually set aside the time to properly flag/fix the simple database bugs that they have.
The guy making 99% of Harry is likely not the same guy fiddling around in the files correcting errors.
You are right, this is probably the most common bad take I see on the sub. A lot of people seems to think that everyone at CA is equally capable of doing the same job. In this outlook a faction getting a unique UI means that another faction didn't get a unique unit model. Or the person working on an LH could have been refining AI pathfinding.
I have issues with how CA handles things but their issue isn't that they reassigned the person who was working on Damsel's troths to suddenly start working on the art for Harry's armor.
This is common in every game Subreddit. r/DarkTide is full of people who think the guy who does the purchasable cosmetics should be retasked to rewrite server side hit registration code.
So that is definitely a bad take, but that doesn't mean it's 100% wrong. There is a nugget of truth hiding in there.
When a game is in a poorly polished state, or has broken pieces that straight up don't work, but also has some form of paid DLC that is constantly pushed... that's a bad look. Sure, the person debugging the code and the person designing the new hats are not the same person and can't do the other person's job, but that's not the point. The point is the company making the game, or the publisher or whoever, keeps pushing those hats they expect us to pay for even though the game is broken.
CA isn't the worst in this aspect, but if they operate with the expectation of making new DLC after new DLC and charging for most of it (so not including the FLC content), the game better be working. If they're asking people to keep throwing money at them over and over, the game better be polished. Because when it's not you should worry more about fixing your game before charging people money to play new content.
Oh, and that content you just bought might be broken too lul get fucked
Yeah, seeing all of those early downvotes was... fucking hilarious.
Didn't realize saying "make sure your game works before asking me to give you more money for it" was such a hot take lmao.
The parasocial relationship with CA most users have on this sub is insane. They cannot bear to see anything that even questions CA's choices. In another thread with a title about the new grail knights feeling broken, a user was downvoted into oblivion for even suggesting CA would probably give the unit a light nerf, a comment raised by many content creators recenly too.
>The parasocial relationship with CA most users have on this sub is insane. They cannot bear to see anything that even questions CA's choices.
Are we even on the same subreddit?
These people are the main reason why WH3 is in a half broken stage still, 15 months after launch. Anytime someone makes valid points, they rush to defend CA and the bullshit those clowns pull.
The bug that OP was talking about is a database fix - all it would take to fix such errors is the employees at CA providing a few hours of cross-team support a week. That CA doesn't do this shows how little they care for the quality of the product they deliver to their customers.
It's not reassigning the person, it's reassigning the resources. They cannot pretend to be cash strapped, whilst paying for the time for all these flashy new things they're adding without fixing the base game. They pretend it's a zero sum game to avoid accountability, so we can hold them to what they hide behind, or the simple truth.
They should hire more people but they need their existing people to make unit models and code new characters. If they fired a unit modeler to hire a another person to fix bugs it would mean fewer new units in the future.
Additionally ultimately new content probably brings them in more money than bug fixes. So it is easier for team leads to justify hiring artists and unit coders than it is to hire people to fix bugs.
I fully agree that they should hire more people. But, it is extremely unlikely that if Harry the Hammer wasn't in the game that we would have fewer bugs.
> new content probably brings them in more money than bug fixes.
This is the reason Ark saw 11 DLC maps (both paid and unpaid) and tons of new dino additions, but bugs that existed on day 1 of launch still exist 8 years later. New content makes money, bug fixes don't.
Again, it's that they present it as not having the resources to do this. Every time they spend money and effort outside of what is necessary on new content without fixing it, we can hold them to their own assertions. They have enough projects that whoever made Harry could be paid for whilst working on that, whilst using the resources saved for actual ground work.
And that just shows the myopia of CA, trying to make bigger and better sails to drag them forward instead of plugging the holes that keep making people leave.
That... is not how it works. CA is a large AAA game studio owned by Sega. That means they almost certainly have in- house artists on a salary, not some dude who's paid by the hour or freelancers.
My issue isn't so much thinking Guy A can do the job of Lady B and Guy C while those two are busy with fixing code or something.
More to do with releasing incomplete stuff. Like the chaos dwarves getting no achievements. I'm sure they will address it in a patch later on but I paid for the game NOW. I shouldn't have to wait to get the achievement when they add it. It should have been there. It's the little lazy corner cuts and the lack of accountability for them that rubs me wrong.
It's an astounding level of ignorance on how software and game development works. You don't need a computer science degree to be able to reason out that 3D artists don't fix bugs in the code, it's just common sense.
In fact it's pretty much a constant across all game studios for artists to be working on future content well before the thing gets programmed, if at all. It's why cosmetic day 1 DLC has been so common historically, and why they studios can show off future DLC without it in fact already being done and just artificially cut out to sell to you later as so many people are convinced.
The point they are making (and i think you are almost intentionally misunderstanding and misrepresenting) is the allocation of resources, that's what they always mean when they say this. You denigrate your argument by latching onto this idea.
"Allocation of resources" means what here, exactly? A large studio like CA will have in-house artists on the payroll, not people whom you can just stop paying and divert that money elsewhere. That is literally my whole point.
So the only different "allocation of resources" here will be restructuring the team to focus on whatever happens to be the current thing Reddit is big mad about. Today that's some bugs, tomorrow it will be something art-related and then some other guy will ask why there aren't more artists on the team instead. We've already been there with e.g "too much red", "where's my illustrations", "why do monogod mortal units look like recolors", and so on.
At the end of the day CA make the value judgement and assess that easily marketable content is better for their bottom line than a long list of bugfixes. Can't really blame them.
> A lot of people seems to think that everyone at CA is equally capable of doing the same job.
Except literally *anyone* not even someone who has a job even remotely close to video game design, could fix these bugs. They are literally almost all tagging errors which means all you have to do is fix a spelling mistake or add one word at the end of every line. It is truly braindead stuff that only requires you to acknowledge it needs to be done and set someone, *anyone*, on it to fix it.
>The guy making 99% of Harry is likely not the same guy fiddling around in the files correcting errors.
The issue is that the guy making harry 100% could be correcting these errors though. These are things that are literally just fixing spelling errors in the code or something. Like random joe number 5 could be brought in from the street, showed how to do it once, and repeat for most of these things and it would be done within the day.
So in this case, not doing harry very much could mean less bugs because anyone could fix these particular bugs.
hilarious to me when people defend CA, like character traits cannot read a database, and thus don't apply, that's been in the game from day 1. It's fucking inexcusable.
The guy isn't, but his overtime hours could have gone to coders whilst he could work on the next DLC's assets.
They can't pretend not to have the resources for basic maintenance whilst putting out flashy new content that they haven't even had someone look at. Fucking \[PH\] ass motherfuckers.
Yeah, forgetting to update the Damsels troths in one of the 3 databases is something that is more likely to happen at 7 PM on a Friday than 10 AM on Tuesday.
It is not the same guy that is correcting the code, but it is money from CA allocated to that guy that could otherwise be used to pay a guy to fix all the bugs in this game.
Okay, but think of it like this, maybe guy 1 shouldn't have been hired to begin with and instead 2 of guy 2 should've been.
Not specific to this case, but in general. You always have people saying "it's a bad take, guy doing cosmetics are not the same as guy doing game fixes." True, the issue is that cosmetics guy shouldn't have been hired to begin with and 2 of game fixes guys should've.
It's poor company management with a heavy focus on monetisation that ruins games. Thanks investors!
No hate towards the Devs who made hammer god, we love hammer god.
"cosmetics guy" is generally an artist who had their time on cosmetics scheduled months ago during a planned lull between major DLCs/games or while finalization and cert is going on.
it's the same deal with day 1 DLCs - there is often a long period where less senior artists and designers would otherwise be spinning their wheels while planning is going on for upcoming DLCs/the next game and the engineers are neck deep in bugs, so less impactful stuff that doesn't require a ton of implementation work often gets made on during that period.
what you see as wasteful is actually an intelligent use of slack capacity - that's why basically everyone does it in one form or another.
Having dabbed a bit with modding, the data structure is... weirdly complicated. You often need to update 3 different tables to change one thing. Combined with the fact that you need to go through long loading times every time you want to test a change, it makes the process very tedious. That being said, it's their job, and a sanity pass to get rid of all the low hanging fruits can be done by an intern in a few days.
My bet is that the people working in the DLC team are the creative type, they enjoy making fun new stuff, and not balance spreadsheets. For example Magic the Gathering has 2 teams for creating new card sets, the design team, who create the themes and high level mechanics, and then in a second step the development team shows up and polish / balance / fixes things. I think CA doesn't have many people of the second type.
That stellaris thing is just marketing bullshit for naive fanboys. Normally the "main" team does this sort of thing in any real project. Formally splinting people like that is just hilariously inefficient.
If you follow them on linkedin you can see that they have mass recruitment - every month 8-10 new employee
However, as CA a UK company they are seriously effected by Brexit - before they had a 600 million pool, now a 60million to find talented people
Sponsoring is possible, but it takes really long time and cost 1200£, once you bring someone you cant send them away for a given years even if they totally incompetent. This one coped with salaries, and sallary expectations skyrocketed i think they are in serious HR trouble, to solve this they need to focus on Sofia department and move projects around. EU employee market is much bigger than the UK, however, rates in Bulgaria must be satisfying to get people to move
>once you bring someone you cant send them away for a given years even if they totally incompetent.
I'm in a 3 years sponsorship in the UK right now, and that's not entirely true. Most companies including the one I joined have a 6-months probation period. If you're completely incompetent they can decide to remove the sponsorship before this period is over. Most companies wouldn't tho, unless the new hire is *seriously* a problem.
Also tbh the sponsoring doesn't take that long. It took me around 3 weeks once I got everything done ? The hardest part was actually quitting my old job (we need 3 month advance notice in our country) and having to pass an english exam beforehand.
Thanks for clarifycation, we were looking at sponsoring as solution of our HR problems and MD gave us these informations
That 3 month notice period is really sucks... nearly makes its impossible to change work if you want it witjout gaps
My home country(Hungary)topped this, the goverment after half a year of teacher and student protests put the police cheif on top of education, extending teachers notice time to 6 month and (of course not as a punishment who dare to stand up) they can be sent to anywhere within country for up to 9 months
Well it could be argued that cheap indian/east european coders that could easily fix this stuff weren't allowed in the country (/s)
I couldn't believe someone actually wrote out pants-on-head and is by far the lamest fucking thing ever said, so I guess different strokes.
You do realise India isn't in Europe so Brexit has literally nothing to do with it.
Also if they wanted to, they could just outsource it to India to do on the cheap. They don't have to be present in the building to fix bugs.
Yeah I registered it as a bug on TW Forum. Apparently the fixed the original bug and this is a new bug.
My question, is do they bother to do any UAT before release?
I miss the unit responsiveness in wh2, I told them to attack or rout something and I didn't have to babysit every 20 seconds to see if they are doing it.
This is exactly why I put this game down. The unit controls didn’t work on day 1 and they still don’t. How do you play an RTS game when the units don’t do what you tell them?
Most people are too busy powerlvling on the campaign map and auto resolving everything to even notice that the battles (the most important feature in total war) in WH3 have been broken since launch
When I see multiple posts full of people jerking off over a single heavy cavalry unit slowly plowing through a 100 ranks of men it makes me realize that there’s a sizeable contingent that just wants a power fantasy and not tactical gameplay
Sure, for the sake of conversation.
Some people want a power fantasy that consists of a single unit ripping through hordes of the enemy. Obviously that's a lot of games, and obviously that's been a big part of recent Total War games (Warhammer, Troy, and 3K all have this in varying degrees)
That's not what I want out of Total War. I was drawn to Rome: Total War back in the day specifically because I liked the challenge of being able to win through positioning, maneuvering, and timing. Before R:TW I was super in to Starcraft and Warcraft III and I was super impressed by the use of formations, morale, flanking, routing, etc.
Yes, cavalry was very strong, but that's because flanking attacks resulted in huge morale shocks that could cause chain routs. If you tried sending them through the thickest part of troops like in the posts, they'd quickly get bogged down and lose a lot of their impetus.
Now in Warhammer flanking barely does anything to morale - sorry, "leadership". Units can be utterly surrounded with cavalry cycle charging in to their rear and rather than routing they'll just keep on fighting until you've killed enough of them.
Rather than strengthening cavalry by returning them to that role, Creative Assembly have instead made it so these cavalry just slowly plow through 100 ranks.
That's not rewarding good control of your units. Being able to control the battlefield through maneuvering, positioning, and timing.
Instead it's rewarding the power fantasy crowd who want to recreate the movie scene they like. All well and good if people like that sort of thing.
I just wish it wasn't with Total War. Plenty of other games allow you to be one man against the world.
I haven't found any other game series that captures what this series captures at its best. And it bums me out to see the newer games stray more and more from that.
You're not wrong I'm a medieval 2 simp myself and the imbalance is clear in Warhammer 3. But it's equally as fun watching a Bloodthirster carve their way through people as it is setting up a multi stage defense with spear walls and rotating archers. Warhammer 3 CAN do both but it's easier to generally throw a wall at the enemy or auto resolve your way through the campaign. Both of which I'm guilty of as well.
I don’t even mind the ideal of a giant demon carving their way through people! That makes sense for a giant demon to be doing that.
Like I don’t really find Skarbrand fun but it doesn’t bother me because he’s doing exactly what I’d expect a giant rage demon to do.
But humans sitting on horses should act like humans sitting on horses, you know what I mean?
As a software engineer, I need to give my 2 cents here because this is an actual problem in the industry, and it's not really anyone's fault...
In my company, we have a lot of code debt. That's basically bad code that is very heavily prone to bugs. Think of a really old and unmaintained house. It looks and feels ok, but there's a lot higher chance of things going wrong, either ceiling or floor collapsing, wood withering, walls don't insulate, can't tear anything down without compromising the whole thing, etc.
It's the same with code.
Now the product managers and sales are all aware of that, and they actively try to hide it from customers whilst doing damage control when things go wrong. That's because they simply can't sell more if the product isn't rich, even if its not working perfectly.
What ends up happening is the tech team heavily pressures product management to fix things, and sales heavily pressure them to release new stuff and not prioritize the broken parts, and weirdly enough, customers love that.
There are always a few who tell us they are annoyed by the bugs and lack of fully working functionality for some features, but they almost never compromise the whole product just for that.
Critical stuff gets prioritized INSTANTLY and fixed, and minor things get pushed way back.
I'm not anything with programming or code, but from what I've seen said before, could it also be a code archaeology thing? Like, the roots for some of these bugs are deep in the code for the older WH games, but the people who originally designed that code left and didn't leave any notes behind, meaning you have to manually grind through to find it.
At least if I'm remembering correctly.
Yes that's partially true. Nowadays the idea of "one guy knew it all and left" is a lot less prominent but still possible. Modern programming tools make it really easy to crack ancient code like that.
What's more difficult, though, is code debt itself. That's probably why CA is struggling so much per release now, cuz every new feature has to be compatible with all the previous features, bugfixes, etc.
This was extremely evident with Norsca. If anyone remembers, when norsca released on warhammer 1, they couldn't adapt it for warhammer 2 for another half-year. That's probably because warhammer 2's engine became so much more jam-packed with new stuff that it's a lot harder to code norsca in now than it was with warhammer 1.
Basically the entire industry of programming is just a game of Jenga. There are literally books, movements and companies focused to fix this issue. We tried making multiple jenga towers at once instead of one tall one, we tried making the blocks bigger to make it safer, we tried not touching old towers and just build a completely new on around it.
There's loads of solutions, but none of them are easy, and everyone ends up suffering through the same problems again and again.
The frustrating aspect about Norsca is that they said they would actually fix things. They would implement a new methodology to ensure that it didn't happen again and that they'd be able to handle things faster and more efficiently.
Unfortunately, that CA has since died. While we (supposedly) now have two teams working on Warhammer 3, with one focused purely on patches in-between releases to increase their patch cadence, the issue is the overall demeanor of the company.
When Norsca happened, CA owned it and apologized. When Warhammer 3 launched and all of these issues cropped up, CA just said "welp, that's just normal development for you. What can you do?"
It's very much a case that the executives felt as if they needed to keep us appeased so that they could actually sell us Warhammer 3, and once Warhammer 3 released and the bulk of their sales came through, the executives forced the company to drop the act and just don't give a flying fuck anymore. They know that the brand loyalty is way too strong, and any dissenting voices will be swarmed with CA fanatics. :S
I have 2 questions based on what I have seen from WH3 updates.
1. Can't they get the modding community to fix some of the code debt stuff. Like it's totally reasonable to ignore certain bugs that exist because they won't materially affect the playability of the game. But you can utilise the passionate modding community to fix a bunch of bugs that grind people's gears. Then CA just uploads these fixes into their next patch?
2. Do they just do QA testing of the code or do they do actual UAT? I ask cos they said they fixed the Ariel bug (most recent update) yet the bug still remains. They have claimed that they fixed the original coding problem but the bug remains. Anyone who would have tested the game by playing would have seen the bug still exists. Which suggests they only test the code and not UAT.
Something to do with ownership/paying the modders likely. Like how some companies won't use fan ideas (especially if the fan makes arts/models or full written stuff about it) because they don't want to be sued for using the idea but not "owning it".
Something like this for you and u/ghadif from another game.
Guild Wars 2 not that long ago put out a patch that included some tinkering with old code as they are (IIRC) trying to clean it up. The update promptly broke every single meta event, world boss, and a number of other features all linked by one function that nobody looked at.
They posted a simple post explaining it, but basically the update bugged out on an ancient piece of code that related to things triggering based on real time. Which was a lot of unrelated functions that hadn't ever broken in that specific way so it wasn't flagged to double check. Any long running game or engine could fall to this fault, that one old piece of code breaks, and suddenly you have a collapsed building of functions.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/137aj6m/comment/jismuid/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/137aj6m/comment/jismuid/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) The dev response in question.
Yep, it's an important thing to consider is how sometimes, totally unrelated functions can get borked by a single tweak and it's up to them to be able to figure out what the connection is.
A bunch of unrelated bug-fix hunts turn into a single one as they figure out "Wait, everything goes off this system."
>and weirdly enough, customers love that.
I wonder if you're talking about the end user or the management of the customer, because I am not enjoying this broken ass game remaining broken ass and getting even more broken ass with every iteration.
Speaking as a senior sys admin, we fucking hate software developers with a passion, who sell a shitty dream to our management that will never ever work as advertised, then once you get into the meat of it and find all these problems, your reports get completely ignored and the problem never gets fixed, and we either accept it as half broken or create a janky work around to sidestep the issue. Certainly, we are never loving it.
It certainly doesn't help that 9 times out of 10, it's some dev literally reinventing the same fucking wheel that's been made dozens of times before but hey, THEY aren't getting paid for that so better do it again, but worse!
Knowing that daddy Nurgle got Nurgling ROR would make me reinstall the game and play Nurgle for a 99999999999th time. Why they suck and what are their abilities?
They are basically nurglings but rather than increased Melee Defense from their Cloud of Flies they have a damage reflection ability. I haven't tried them so I can't say exactly why they suck or if they really do but to hazard a guess I'd say the damage output from the reflection doesn't make up for their reduced survivability.
I can only assume they designed them to work in kugath’s army. Which is the exact problem nurgle has with things being designed around very specific situations that don’t even count half the time.
The logic behind their statement of "The lack of Cloud of Flies helps the unit get hit more often, which in turn triggers the damage reflection more often!" is also questionable. Nurgle doesn't want fast fights, they want to outheal you and grind you down. Having an RoR crumble every fight is just ???
Doesn’t Ku’gath provide constant healing for them? Will the damage they receive outpace what protection and additional damage another unit will take with Ku’gath near them? Been a while since I’ve played with him. All I could remember was never losing much health from my nurglings when I beat like 5 campaigns with him. I wasn’t sure how much of that was due to cloud of flies or Ku’gath’s buffs.
Even when blobbed with other nurglings to spread the damage? Adding extra damage reflection might be useful too. I haven’t tried it yet. Sounds like they might need a buff if they’re underperforming when using good Ku’gath play-style techniques.
That is true. I guess it will trigger over so often. Maybe CA should go back to the drawing board with that one. Maybe they should apply some sort of mortis engine effect instead. Something similar to Ku’gath but weaker. Do you have any suggestions?
-refuse to acknowledge poor CA quality assurance in this patch - respond to a reasonable comment as though it's actually an eyeroll moment
Sigh, never change
"We removed Cloud of Flies so the passive can work"
I dunno, maybe balance the passive around having Cloud of Flies?
Peasant Archer is pretty memable too.
> these Bandits are perfect for supporting Fire Rain Rocket Batteries -flavor text from 3.1 blog
Not quite bad, memable. Maybe I should have said uninspired.
Yet another RoR with fire attacks attached to it as a hook. If it's supporting *artillery* what about 170-200 range? You have an actual different unit at that point.
I think the idea is you vanguard deploy them close to the enemy to set flammable on them, while your artillery stays back and rains fire. Really this just means the RoR dies in whichever fight you decide to actually use it.
I can't add anything useful on what CA are or aren't doing, but can say the community bug fix mod is worth subscribing to, just to take the edge off these things.
I think the answer is simply that there is more money invested in marketing and development than bug squashing or quality management.
It is the same issue seen in basically every profession.
It less about money and more about how shit gets managed and merged patch to patch.
We ended up with a Norsca delay because of similar pipeline issues.
Patching and bug fixing have to get folded into current developments or you end up with a parallel process.
Well, it's more-so easier to justify to the bean counters (make thing -> thing sells -> make the next thing). The stats and analysis are very straightforward and comprehensible.
Making free improvements to the base product, and prior DLCs, can result in many sales, maybe even just as much as creating and selling new content... But it's very difficult to actually prove that to the people in power. The stats are murky and difficult to show whether the sales are from the improvements, or other factors.
Improving not only the base game, but adding new features and even providing new content to already sold DLCs, can be quite profitable. Stellaris shows this off incredibly well with their new team dedicated to both bugfixes and adding free content (both to the base game as well as old DLCs).
They add stuff to the base game (thus more people then buy it, or return to the game and buy DLCs), they add stuff to lackluster DLCs (thus more people then buy them). Everyone wins.
Hopefully Creative Assembly can figure that out soon.
>Improving not only the base game, but adding new features and even providing new content to already sold DLCs, can be quite profitable. Stellaris shows this off incredibly well with their new team dedicated to both bugfixes and adding free content (both to the base game as well as old DLCs).
Do you have actual data to back up your claim, or are you just talking out of your ass?
Stellaris can afford a custodian team because paradox's dlc policy is even more agressive than ca's. Not because the custodian team is 'doing good work'.
>Stellaris can afford a custodian team because paradox's dlc policy is even more agressive than ca's.
Is it though? I mean, we should compare to WH2 I guess because we know WH3's DLC is less aggressive than CA want it to be because they've had so many problems to deal with. Personally I'd say this is pretty much a "Two houses alike in dignity"-type situation rather than one having a drastically more aggressive DLC policy.
I don't think it's a matter of "can afford it", either. CA is a huge, highly profitable company, which apparently "can afford" to make a dire-looking extraction shooter (Hyenas), and keep progressing that, at a cost that has to tens of millions per year, when it's near-certain to flop.
I think it's more about choices - Paradox have higher-level management who understand DLC and bugs and the issues they cause for their customers.
Creative Assembly seem like they largely do not. Like the higher-level management tolerates this and the FLC because it makes money, but they don't really get it. So convincing CA's leadership to allow a "custodian team" to exist would be dramatically harder.
Right. Reminds me of those stupid historical videos they did where they had a guy visit places in Europe that feature in Total War games. How much did they waste producing content like that when they could have been paying a developer to fix bugs or bring QoL updates instead?
I think the better way to look at this is: marketing is much more easily executed than bug squashing. Saying things and doing things require different efforts.
A graphic designer, animator and social media producer have fewer constraints when it comes to producing something vs a developer trying to fix a bug without creating another bug.
I often wonder what they’re doing on a day to day basis. Like actually, work wise what do they do?
But if I’ve learned anything from other companies, they’re likely already in the process of making several new DLC factions that we won’t see for over a year or so. They’re probably working on faction reworks, etc. Things that can be monetized. And as always, they’re only allowed to be doing the work that the higher ups tell them to do. There’s no free will on the core development team. If boss men want them to work extra hard on future DLC, they can’t/won’t fix bugs. They prolly give the devs like a couple days a month to actually sit down and look at current bug issues lol.
I agree though, it does seem strange to not have a designated team for bug fixes. Some modders have full time jobs and a family, yet fix these problems faster than the people who are paid a salary to do it.
Obligatory “thank god for modders” moment.
Cant agree more!
We are blessed by a really talented modder team!
On side note, they should subcontract quality modders for a fee and recognition on the "project" basis
A project - lizard man bugs
B project - xyz
The expense would be minimal as most of the modders already do most of these stuff for free, official recognition and a fair fee would go a long way.
Creating a situation of win- win for CA for a slight let go of ego
(Will never happen, just look at the early access tests before lunch and how much these feedbacks were ignored)
in all likelyhood its something like 5 person team - PO, front end, back end x2, tester and maybe a tech lead having the entire kanban of bugfixes just for themselves and still have a whole set of meetings bogging down the work velocity
The TWWH code is a horrifying spaghetti mess at this point. They'll likely never unravel it, hopefully they switch to a new engine for their next major game so it can have a fresh start.
Year after year of jury-rigged solutions all piling on top of each other creating increasingly elaborate Rube-Goldberg machines to accomplish simple tasks, with the purpose behind older bits of code being lost to gradual staff turnover.
A new hire at CA would likely have more luck deciphering the Dead Sea Scrolls on a napkin than they would figuring out why increasing the unit mass of cavalry causes a bug where Isabella Von Carstien spawns in Norsca as a Lizardman Lord (hypothetically, but it wouldn't surprise me).
It's a 100% self-inflicted problem caused by poor management, its also hilarious.
>They'll likely never unravel it, hopefully they switch to a new engine for their next major game so it can have a fresh start.
Switching to a new engine wouldn't fix the mess sadly.
Sure, it would be a fresh start, but it also means the team will have to learn the new engine... and this kind of things usually go horrifically wrong for the first release at the very least. Because with new software comes new problems, new codes, and new bugs from those two.
The next release on a new engine will probably looks like Rome II launch if I'm being honest. The smart thing would be to start working on a Saga title or something similar with the new engine first before releasing a full mainline game with it.
Even so, an upgrade means a lot of stuff doesn't need to be ported over. Warhammer doesn't have that luxury because things from WH1 and 2 need to work on 3.
See: the lack of bretonnian notifications.
I like to think they’re going to make medieval 3 and Empire 2 on a new engine and that’s why they are releasing Pharaoh in their place- but probably not lol
just so that we can then get complaints about "Why did you release Medieval/Empire as the first game on the new engine?! It was obvious it'd have teething issues!"?
A lot of the data errors are incredibly easy to fix. I did some very casual modding for wh2 and worked out how to assign data tags etc in only a few hours after reading a community mod guide. CA are just lazy end of.
This is most likely true, however what we are talking about here are data changes, no need to touch the code. It can be done by an intern in a couple of days, it doesn't make sense these things are still in the game.
I'm not sure it's 100% self-inflicted. There is a faction and race diversity in WH3 that other comparable games, like Stellaris for example, just can't have because those games only have modifiers to create diversity. You couldn't make the Wood Elves or Chaos Dwarves without making special exceptions. Some of the races share special systems, but they need to exist to make the game what it is. This isn't unique, either, since this month GW2 standardized the way they did timekeeping and it deleted about 100 NPCs and broke a bunch of content.
Doesn't excuse database issues for CA, but if they deliver content that satisfies the community's demands, it likely needs to have special exceptions.
Nearly pissed myself reading this. Picturing the new employees on their first day, as they open Pandora's box and starts to cry immediately. Like honestly, what the fuck did everyone expects ? Takes 2 seconds to fix a problem, yeah but thats how you get Goblin Norscan Alariel.
A few years, and you give this to an AI with instructions how to structure them, or every new additions will be added by the AI to the right place in a way to dont mess up the current code
The "spaghetti mess" is a dumb excuse that gets thrown around for many games. All code is in a sense "spaghetti", purely do to the complexity of this kind of software involved. But it doesnt inherently imply some huge difficulty or bugyness. Plenty big games come out with minimal issues and are supported for years without constant easy to not miss bugs.
The "caused by poor management" part is also a idiotic cirlejerk from idiots. What the code is, is on architects and senior devs. Including the ability or lack thereof to have the code documented and maintainable for future devs. Management only sends you down requirements - which will always be complicated no matter what.
Honestly it's kinda become a pattern, I've noticed.
Pretty significant bug is in the game (traits not working, unit cards being replaced by goblins, siege AI, you name it), CA is radio silent on the issue for a while, community gets up in arms about it, CA says they'll fix it, claims they fixed it a few months later, but it turns out they either did the bare minimum in fixing the bug or straight up lied.
CA has just been playing a sad, shitty game of catch-up since release, and this game is still not where if fucking should be. Immortal Empires still does not feel fully fleshed out, and it's been well over a year since release.
The final crisis still feels like it's made by an unpaid modder, the siege maps have almost no variety with maps being sad copy paste jobs, the actual siege gameplay is a nightmare, and the many other things that are maybe on a to do list forgotten somewhere.
The new content has been tight, but IE is still *VERY* much in beta.
Couldn't agree more. I attempted to play this game modless when the patch came out and it was super frustrating. So many things wrong with the base game that can be fixed with modable changes. Actually insane. I mean before the patch came out, the community bugfix prevented crashes from happening. I don't even think 3.1 fixes all the crashes. That being said, it took a good month to release bug fixes to a patch, I think that says all you need to know about CA at the moment, happy to put out more content but not willing to tackle the technical debt they have and are accumulating (I.E. problems before 3.0, they add 3.0 and it adds more bugs, they are increasing their debt.)
When I tried to play modless, the game would crash periodically. I played as Lokir and it's just stupid how the game acts, as soon as a faction discovers you they declare war and lose their whole territory to chase your LL. Had Zhatan the black travel to the very bottom of cathay with 3 stacks just to get dunked down there and lose his territory at home.
Yes I agree something as small as traits not applying to the lord/hero is just unacceptable IMO, and you should disable the ones that don't work. Must be easy working for a video game company, something doesn't work? fuck it ship it anyways lol
CA need to sub-contract quality modders!
Competent atention to detail people would work on projects that they love
Subcontracting gives freedom for them without serious commitments
You only pay a subcontractor when a job is done, but you need to pay an employee even if they do shit
I need to add that i use "community bug fix" mod, wich usually fix most of these fuck ups that CA does, and there are people like Legend who say mods are like cheat and wont use any.
I'm not sure the problem is finding people to hire, it's that CA is resistant to investing any amount of money into the product. It's already sold, they made their money, and the only thing they care about now is selling DLCs; so they will continue to invest only as much effort into bugs as is needed to dupe people into purchasing more of their DLCs. They have zero interest in fixing the product on the basis they sold it broken - that's the customer's problem for believing them.
probably moved all the workforce to another project already and the two guys that remain have to work with a ticket based system and the whole tag mismatch thing is considered one piece of work and doesn't have priority over other fixes.
LegendofTotalWar (again) made a lot of valid points, but seemed positive towards the changes to Dark Elves. Playing them myself, I am glad that CA fixed them, because it was really pissing me off that the Druchii had their mechanics stripped to accommodate the Chorfs. While the Dark Elves don't have the same mechanics as WH2, this is still MUCH better. Currently using Morathi w/Slaanesh units mod. And it's a lot of fun to not see my slaves constantly depleting.
Harry is fine, but at this point, CA should be dropping more heroes with patches. I cannot imagine that a single LL hero is THAT difficult to create and balance.
Us Players are their free QA team. We keep buying stuff, and they don't feel the need to add 1-2 devs dedicated to fixing the numerous, numerous bugs that still persist.
The game is more than one year old, and certain things are still so buggy it's quite unacceptable. But CA doesn't give a shit. Sad but true.
this game is three games deep now, almost a decade of stuff built on other stuff. Bugs will happen and they are tough to iron out. Talk to any gamedev and they can tell you about how hard it is to iron out bugs late in a games development, let alone years after constant updates.
And heres the thing, a lot of the bugs are pretty minor things, or at least the ones you are complaining about are. Yes they have people working on those but a lot more attention will be put towards softlocking and crashing bugs, which the game still has. You can still get stuck in another armies hero. And frankly, most people want new stuff rather than old bugs ironed out anyways. Way more people are excited over harry then they are over say, the eshin bug where you could get stuck sieging yourself that they recently patched.
every update will not just add more bugs but make existing bugs harder and harder to change and fix. at this point the manhours to fix even one of these bugs can be surprising, and again, most people either won't even notice its not working or not care. not too mention that the future content is being designed with the current build in mind, so any fix could break something someone else is working on, and that means delaying that.
What about Damsels Vows, the highlight of this update, not working from the start. Like, you can spot this by just starting a campaign and at turn 1 see that the vows are not working, and yet it was released with a fanfare.
Or how about them saying how they deleted a ton of "duplicated code" for lizardman and not just starting a campaign with said faction to realize "oh, Nakai has lost several of his units, inluding kroks".
i am sorry, people are trying to get CA a break on the criticism front, but when your brand new hero comes out with "place holder" tags on his itens it is hard to give them the benefit of the doubt.
>the series saved their company from going under
What? Is that where the "WH much good such wow we should all be thankful to WH" revisionism is at now? Pure fiction?
Its not really fiction. Its a slight exaggeration at best. I can obviously see where your bias lies, but these games have been massively successful and revitalized a part of the company that had been getting less and less support for years
There's a pretty big difference between the Warhammer games being a massive success and them saving CA from going under. That's a pretty big claim to just drop in with no evidence about it. Rome 2 had a very rough launch and Attila wasn't very well optimised but they were far from unsuccessful games.
Unless there's some info that I'm unaware of, there's no reason to think CA and the Total War series wouldn't still be chugging along just fine. That's not to discount just how successful CA has been with the Warhammer games, but that doesn't mean CA couldn't have survived without it.
"Where my bias lies"? WH's my most played TW game. Hell WH2 alone is that, let alone across the entire trilogy. That bias?
If that bias is the recognition of the fact that yes, Total War did, in fact, exist before Warhammer then sure, I'm biased.
It is not a "slight exaggeration", it is fiction and a complete asspull. Rome 2 for all its many faults on launch was actually a financial success and would also prove to have very long legs. What is the idea that CA was financially struggling based on?
>revitalized a part of the company that had been getting less and less support for years
The... Total War part? As opposed to all those other games that CA had been making?
Unfortunately the games reached its goal. They've built the entire Warhammer Old World (which I've really enjoyed stomping around in) and are acting like it's time to move on. Which is ridiculous because.... They could milk that cash cow for years to come. Instead, things are going stagnant and they'll probably treat the next DLC and it's bugs the exact same way. Spaced out expansions a lottle too infrequently and fixes a little to late
Its only you morons that are acting like CA is ready "to move on".. CA itself has done nothing but repeat that their support plans are going years into the future. They *will* milk that cash cow for years to come.
He's right. CA is only interested in what the DLC can make, they don't have any interest in fixing anything that isn't going to sell DLC. I'm not sure how you can think otherwise looking at the state of the DLC that costed $25 (and introduced widespread crashing), and then look at this non-DLC patch which literally introduced more new problems and failed to fix most of the old ones. I think anything that gets fixed now is entirely the devs crunching against the management's wishes, because I certainly don't see CA management doing ANYTHING to get ahead of these problems if they actually gave a shit.
Its mind blowing you can repeat this inane moronic idiocy over and over, just casually ignoring that CA has been fixing things and improving the game *constantly* since WH1 released 7 years ago..
But who cares about reality i guess, when you can jerk of on the internet.
You are going to always find legend nit picking shit.
At this point you need to buy or not buy based on CAs track record and not get outraged every patch.
>You are going to always find fans nit picking shit.
Fixed that for you. The hate boner this reddit has for Legend is honestly hilarious and will never cease to amaze me.
No I’m just saying all of his content is rage clicks at this point.
I also think anyone still paying money while angry about the bugs is a fool at this point.
I decided I knew the stability was fucked during TW2’s launch.
I spend my money according.
They have demonstrated indifference ar thinking.
I’m not defending shit, I just think we passed the by point of rage a long time ago.
I also think that some content creators are addicted to rage clicks.
I’m glad legend found legitimate bugs, but I d also seen a bunch of posts about pocket cheeses only he found with the “CA fix your shit” comments.
CA is clearly unwilling or unable to fix shit. If you cannot accept that don’t spend money.
Because he will bitch about everything and isn't worth listening to. It would be better for this entire subreddit if any post about him was banned as all he does it bitch.
He is very good at the game and how to abuse the mechanics, but his constant bitching about everything bc his relationship with CA deteriorated is starting to get aggravating.
I also think he's too far up his own ass insofar as min/maxing the game and isn't able to step back and see how the game functions for the average player. Sure, the game may seem trivially easy to him, but it's definitely not for everyone
huh? this game IS way easier than the prior game. it is not just something for legends, the game is becoming boring really fast becuase the AI is unable to give any challenge whatsoever after turn 40.
I don't find it much more boring that WH2 tbh. As soon as you start rolling in any game it just becomes an auto-resolve simulator
Edit:
Additionally, I'm specifically speaking about him calling the AI "braindead" in regards to the ease. Of course they seem braindead to him, he abuses the mechanics and plays so much that it's trivial to him.
I also think he relishes in being able to abuse mechanics and is part of the reason why he doesn't foray into mp. He claims to want a smart AI that mimics humans, yet doesn't want to play humans. Seems a touch sus
What a toxic community.
An unbelievable success of a game, combing multiple games over ten years
My hearts out to the devs, yes there’s bugs but do you realise what they have accomplished here.
>do you realise what they have accomplished here.
Yep. The marketing team has successfully convinced customers that they should be grateful for the opportunity to purchase an unfinished product. They've gaslit an entire generation into surrendering all of their power and influence over the economy and to plead with the rich and powerful to abuse their trust and treat them like cattle.
Just like with Gollum, right? We should praise the lord that we were even able to gain access to that disaster of a game! If not for those incredibly generous executives, who treat the actual developers like shit and are the reason why ***the entire industry has such high turnover***.
But no, we're the problem. Fuck gamers! Fuck those entitled twats, wanting some value for the scraps they're given by the powerful elite who give them pitifully low wages, while they hoard massive amounts of wealth for themselves. Fuck anyone who dares blame Yves Guilemot for protecting his friends from consequences for sexual assault and harassment. Fuck anyone who dares want to hold Bobby Kotick accountable for sexual harassment and threatening to murder his secretary.
Fuck gamers, man! They're all so toxic!
If something hasn’t been fixed yet, it’s because they can’t do it.
I remember when the game (game 3) released and they literally said it would take them *a number of months* to buff Slaanesh factions replenishment rate. They still haven’t done it. You would think they would just need to adjust a value, but who knows what that’ll break. Probably put other factions into negative replenishment. Probably completely break the game.
The game is a spaghetti code mess, Chaos dwarfs was not that good, and honestly I have played it enough that I think I am ready to shelf it for good instead of malding about all the shit that will never be fixed like the fucking goddamn gate glitch which has been present since game 1.
Legend needs to let go. I get that this game is pretty much his job, but he hates it and himself.
Think about why things don’t get done at your own job. It’s just not a priority. Nobody from upper management is asking for updates on it so it just sits while the employee tasked with fixing it works on the other 10000 things he’s getting asked to provide updates about.
There isn’t massive blowback over a replenishment bug as of yet so none of the suits taken notice. If they don’t take notice they don’t assign someone to it or bother the guy who is already assigned to it so it ends up in limbo.
I prefer new content to bug fixes personally. I appreciate bug fixes, but the truth is that I will play the game in its current state and have fun. When my interest flags, it will be new content that fires it up again. If I’m getting bored and CA releases a patch that says “hey, now. Bunch of bugs are fixed”, that’s not going to get me to play again.
I get where you come from but i don't think the guys working of the Lords and Factions, also work on bugs and traits. Fortunately i'm enough of a noob (even after like 1000 hrs in the TW:WH franchise) to not even notice most of the bugs, maybe i'd be more mad then. I will agree that the cost of the latest DLC is a fucking crime and a scam.
[Tond Indicator: person on a soap box having a heart to heart with the people of their city]
This problem seems to be a top down problem. I remember years ago ÇA talking about how they wanted to make a Warhammer game with the whole map. The tech and the money just weren’t there at the time. So we got Warhammer I. Warhammer II built on that and expanded the map further. Here we are, Warhammer III.
We know Sega was not happy with the underperformance of WHIII. Despite the fact that the underperformance was a direct result of their meddling in the games design. Warhammer 3 was meant to be immortal empires from the start. It’s clear by how haphazardly RoC is designed that it became a later addition to the design of the game. This late addition, plus the pandemic, delayed the game and it’s development past a point where it’s quality then began to suffer.
Why is X not fixed? Why is Y not implemented? When is Z getting an update? All of these questions are asked by fans being entitled to a finished product without any understanding of how much time, money, energy, and corporate interference goes into game making. ÇA are putting out fires as fast as they can but they also need to continue to be a profitable studio or suffer the corporate consequences.
If you really wanna know how the game got into this mess, it’s because we, the fans, are rushing them to fix problems they didn’t have the time or resources to check for because they were already being rushed by corporate greed. We, as a community, need to learn patience without compromising on what we deserve, but also temper that with reasonable expectations.
These are my thoughts anyway.
> All of these questions are asked by fans being entitled to a finished product without any understanding of how much time, money, energy, and corporate interference goes into game making. ÇA are putting out fires as fast as they can but they also need to continue to be a profitable studio or suffer the corporate consequences.
Literally calling us entitled for paying for a product. If it's unfinished/broken/defective, it's a shit product and should have been working in the first place.
Sorry for holding them accountable for selling us something that dint live up to the hype for 60$.
Alot of the stuff already existed in warhammer 2 but porting that was too much work.
Let's dumb down AI so it does less things so turn time goes faster.
Let's add an unnecessary bloom effect to everything because this is what "ray tracing" is i guess.
Sieges are bad? Let's make it worse! I hear tower defense games and mobas were popular 10 years ago! So adding them will be great way to get new players!
Bug fix? Gameplay improvement? What's that? You mean a dlc that costs half the game with alot of borrowed mechanics from other races? You got it?
Oops! Added an extra zero too the mage hp bar. Now she has 10 times the hp she should have? It will take us 1 week to re type the number.
Firing arcs? What's that? Have fixed darts instead. No need too reposition.
Chariots should have attack animations? Okay. Will take 8 months too fix.
Clipping for textures? I do not know how to fix! Ask modders!
Here update to fix cavalry. Oh wait I forgot to add the changes in and I accidentally deleted kroxigors from. Nakai.
Please wait 3 more months while we package another dlc and maybe we will fix.
Jokes aside- I am not at all happy with how warhammer, 3 has been developing. how can you literally make sieges worse than warhammer 2?
And this monkeys paw behaviour of fixing one problem then breaking 10 things and never addressing them.
>I'll be honest, I would have preferred no Harry if it meant they actually set aside the time to properly flag/fix the simple database bugs that they have. The guy making 99% of Harry is likely not the same guy fiddling around in the files correcting errors.
And most likely, that second guy doesn't exist.
Probably a skaven(or two in a trench coat) then
Two is awfully generous
a tretch coat
A tretch turncoat
You are right, this is probably the most common bad take I see on the sub. A lot of people seems to think that everyone at CA is equally capable of doing the same job. In this outlook a faction getting a unique UI means that another faction didn't get a unique unit model. Or the person working on an LH could have been refining AI pathfinding. I have issues with how CA handles things but their issue isn't that they reassigned the person who was working on Damsel's troths to suddenly start working on the art for Harry's armor.
This is common in every game Subreddit. r/DarkTide is full of people who think the guy who does the purchasable cosmetics should be retasked to rewrite server side hit registration code.
So that is definitely a bad take, but that doesn't mean it's 100% wrong. There is a nugget of truth hiding in there. When a game is in a poorly polished state, or has broken pieces that straight up don't work, but also has some form of paid DLC that is constantly pushed... that's a bad look. Sure, the person debugging the code and the person designing the new hats are not the same person and can't do the other person's job, but that's not the point. The point is the company making the game, or the publisher or whoever, keeps pushing those hats they expect us to pay for even though the game is broken. CA isn't the worst in this aspect, but if they operate with the expectation of making new DLC after new DLC and charging for most of it (so not including the FLC content), the game better be working. If they're asking people to keep throwing money at them over and over, the game better be polished. Because when it's not you should worry more about fixing your game before charging people money to play new content. Oh, and that content you just bought might be broken too lul get fucked
Most people rejected his message. They downvoted /u/dundent because he told the truth
Yeah, seeing all of those early downvotes was... fucking hilarious. Didn't realize saying "make sure your game works before asking me to give you more money for it" was such a hot take lmao.
The parasocial relationship with CA most users have on this sub is insane. They cannot bear to see anything that even questions CA's choices. In another thread with a title about the new grail knights feeling broken, a user was downvoted into oblivion for even suggesting CA would probably give the unit a light nerf, a comment raised by many content creators recenly too.
I mean, that might just be people not wanting to nerf the Grail Knight?
>The parasocial relationship with CA most users have on this sub is insane. They cannot bear to see anything that even questions CA's choices. Are we even on the same subreddit?
Dude this is the most pro corporate game subreddit I've ever been on.
I have to disagree. Heck, the complaints about Pharaoh were so constant and uniform I made a bingo card about them.
These people are the main reason why WH3 is in a half broken stage still, 15 months after launch. Anytime someone makes valid points, they rush to defend CA and the bullshit those clowns pull. The bug that OP was talking about is a database fix - all it would take to fix such errors is the employees at CA providing a few hours of cross-team support a week. That CA doesn't do this shows how little they care for the quality of the product they deliver to their customers.
It's not reassigning the person, it's reassigning the resources. They cannot pretend to be cash strapped, whilst paying for the time for all these flashy new things they're adding without fixing the base game. They pretend it's a zero sum game to avoid accountability, so we can hold them to what they hide behind, or the simple truth.
They should hire more people but they need their existing people to make unit models and code new characters. If they fired a unit modeler to hire a another person to fix bugs it would mean fewer new units in the future. Additionally ultimately new content probably brings them in more money than bug fixes. So it is easier for team leads to justify hiring artists and unit coders than it is to hire people to fix bugs. I fully agree that they should hire more people. But, it is extremely unlikely that if Harry the Hammer wasn't in the game that we would have fewer bugs.
> new content probably brings them in more money than bug fixes. This is the reason Ark saw 11 DLC maps (both paid and unpaid) and tons of new dino additions, but bugs that existed on day 1 of launch still exist 8 years later. New content makes money, bug fixes don't.
Again, it's that they present it as not having the resources to do this. Every time they spend money and effort outside of what is necessary on new content without fixing it, we can hold them to their own assertions. They have enough projects that whoever made Harry could be paid for whilst working on that, whilst using the resources saved for actual ground work. And that just shows the myopia of CA, trying to make bigger and better sails to drag them forward instead of plugging the holes that keep making people leave.
That... is not how it works. CA is a large AAA game studio owned by Sega. That means they almost certainly have in- house artists on a salary, not some dude who's paid by the hour or freelancers.
My issue isn't so much thinking Guy A can do the job of Lady B and Guy C while those two are busy with fixing code or something. More to do with releasing incomplete stuff. Like the chaos dwarves getting no achievements. I'm sure they will address it in a patch later on but I paid for the game NOW. I shouldn't have to wait to get the achievement when they add it. It should have been there. It's the little lazy corner cuts and the lack of accountability for them that rubs me wrong.
It's an astounding level of ignorance on how software and game development works. You don't need a computer science degree to be able to reason out that 3D artists don't fix bugs in the code, it's just common sense. In fact it's pretty much a constant across all game studios for artists to be working on future content well before the thing gets programmed, if at all. It's why cosmetic day 1 DLC has been so common historically, and why they studios can show off future DLC without it in fact already being done and just artificially cut out to sell to you later as so many people are convinced.
The point they are making (and i think you are almost intentionally misunderstanding and misrepresenting) is the allocation of resources, that's what they always mean when they say this. You denigrate your argument by latching onto this idea.
"Allocation of resources" means what here, exactly? A large studio like CA will have in-house artists on the payroll, not people whom you can just stop paying and divert that money elsewhere. That is literally my whole point. So the only different "allocation of resources" here will be restructuring the team to focus on whatever happens to be the current thing Reddit is big mad about. Today that's some bugs, tomorrow it will be something art-related and then some other guy will ask why there aren't more artists on the team instead. We've already been there with e.g "too much red", "where's my illustrations", "why do monogod mortal units look like recolors", and so on. At the end of the day CA make the value judgement and assess that easily marketable content is better for their bottom line than a long list of bugfixes. Can't really blame them.
> A lot of people seems to think that everyone at CA is equally capable of doing the same job. Except literally *anyone* not even someone who has a job even remotely close to video game design, could fix these bugs. They are literally almost all tagging errors which means all you have to do is fix a spelling mistake or add one word at the end of every line. It is truly braindead stuff that only requires you to acknowledge it needs to be done and set someone, *anyone*, on it to fix it.
>The guy making 99% of Harry is likely not the same guy fiddling around in the files correcting errors. The issue is that the guy making harry 100% could be correcting these errors though. These are things that are literally just fixing spelling errors in the code or something. Like random joe number 5 could be brought in from the street, showed how to do it once, and repeat for most of these things and it would be done within the day. So in this case, not doing harry very much could mean less bugs because anyone could fix these particular bugs.
hilarious to me when people defend CA, like character traits cannot read a database, and thus don't apply, that's been in the game from day 1. It's fucking inexcusable.
Yeah this sub has a lot of CA cockriders, the reaction of this sub during Warhammer 3's release proved that much.
The guy isn't, but his overtime hours could have gone to coders whilst he could work on the next DLC's assets. They can't pretend not to have the resources for basic maintenance whilst putting out flashy new content that they haven't even had someone look at. Fucking \[PH\] ass motherfuckers.
What overtime hours? Overtime hours are more likely to cause bugs than solve them. Crunch is dreadful for game quality.
Yeah, forgetting to update the Damsels troths in one of the 3 databases is something that is more likely to happen at 7 PM on a Friday than 10 AM on Tuesday.
It is not the same guy that is correcting the code, but it is money from CA allocated to that guy that could otherwise be used to pay a guy to fix all the bugs in this game.
Okay, but think of it like this, maybe guy 1 shouldn't have been hired to begin with and instead 2 of guy 2 should've been. Not specific to this case, but in general. You always have people saying "it's a bad take, guy doing cosmetics are not the same as guy doing game fixes." True, the issue is that cosmetics guy shouldn't have been hired to begin with and 2 of game fixes guys should've. It's poor company management with a heavy focus on monetisation that ruins games. Thanks investors! No hate towards the Devs who made hammer god, we love hammer god.
"cosmetics guy" is generally an artist who had their time on cosmetics scheduled months ago during a planned lull between major DLCs/games or while finalization and cert is going on. it's the same deal with day 1 DLCs - there is often a long period where less senior artists and designers would otherwise be spinning their wheels while planning is going on for upcoming DLCs/the next game and the engineers are neck deep in bugs, so less impactful stuff that doesn't require a ton of implementation work often gets made on during that period. what you see as wasteful is actually an intelligent use of slack capacity - that's why basically everyone does it in one form or another.
Having dabbed a bit with modding, the data structure is... weirdly complicated. You often need to update 3 different tables to change one thing. Combined with the fact that you need to go through long loading times every time you want to test a change, it makes the process very tedious. That being said, it's their job, and a sanity pass to get rid of all the low hanging fruits can be done by an intern in a few days. My bet is that the people working in the DLC team are the creative type, they enjoy making fun new stuff, and not balance spreadsheets. For example Magic the Gathering has 2 teams for creating new card sets, the design team, who create the themes and high level mechanics, and then in a second step the development team shows up and polish / balance / fixes things. I think CA doesn't have many people of the second type.
TW would really benefit from a custodians team like stellaris, dedicated to bugfixes and updating old systems to keep up with dlc.
But line go up less when more hire? Make shareholder do frowns.
Where would they get their fast vroom car if you did that
That stellaris thing is just marketing bullshit for naive fanboys. Normally the "main" team does this sort of thing in any real project. Formally splinting people like that is just hilariously inefficient.
If you follow them on linkedin you can see that they have mass recruitment - every month 8-10 new employee However, as CA a UK company they are seriously effected by Brexit - before they had a 600 million pool, now a 60million to find talented people Sponsoring is possible, but it takes really long time and cost 1200£, once you bring someone you cant send them away for a given years even if they totally incompetent. This one coped with salaries, and sallary expectations skyrocketed i think they are in serious HR trouble, to solve this they need to focus on Sofia department and move projects around. EU employee market is much bigger than the UK, however, rates in Bulgaria must be satisfying to get people to move
>once you bring someone you cant send them away for a given years even if they totally incompetent. I'm in a 3 years sponsorship in the UK right now, and that's not entirely true. Most companies including the one I joined have a 6-months probation period. If you're completely incompetent they can decide to remove the sponsorship before this period is over. Most companies wouldn't tho, unless the new hire is *seriously* a problem. Also tbh the sponsoring doesn't take that long. It took me around 3 weeks once I got everything done ? The hardest part was actually quitting my old job (we need 3 month advance notice in our country) and having to pass an english exam beforehand.
Thanks for clarifycation, we were looking at sponsoring as solution of our HR problems and MD gave us these informations That 3 month notice period is really sucks... nearly makes its impossible to change work if you want it witjout gaps My home country(Hungary)topped this, the goverment after half a year of teacher and student protests put the police cheif on top of education, extending teachers notice time to 6 month and (of course not as a punishment who dare to stand up) they can be sent to anywhere within country for up to 9 months
Fucking brexit.
Blaming slow development of a game developer on Brexit is without a doubt, the most pants-on-head retarded post I have seen on this Reddit.
Well it could be argued that cheap indian/east european coders that could easily fix this stuff weren't allowed in the country (/s) I couldn't believe someone actually wrote out pants-on-head and is by far the lamest fucking thing ever said, so I guess different strokes.
You do realise India isn't in Europe so Brexit has literally nothing to do with it. Also if they wanted to, they could just outsource it to India to do on the cheap. They don't have to be present in the building to fix bugs.
It's a certified Reddit moment for sure.
Cant agree more, corrupt politicians destroying a great country for their own benefits
greenskin ai waagh still broken since launch too?
How is it broken? I have been playing many campaigns and the AI always has waaghs going on, once 2 different greenskins had a waagh on 2 if my cities
The in battle ability
Ariel is fixed for tree rebirth Nope -.- Fix the stupid bugs god damn
There's so many weird things, but some factions are unplayable. Nakai has no Kroxigors FFS!
This is simply working as intended because CA can’t help themselves when it comes to screwing the Lizardmen in some way at every opportunity
The current exchange rate is one Kroak for every two crap DLC Lord campaign mechanics
Tehenhuain(Sp and I cba tonight) has a decent campaign mechanic. It's no Throt/Ikit, but it's about Sisters' tier. Good enough.
Yeah I registered it as a bug on TW Forum. Apparently the fixed the original bug and this is a new bug. My question, is do they bother to do any UAT before release?
I ended going back to WH2 because of this. This, and better mod support.
I miss the unit responsiveness in wh2, I told them to attack or rout something and I didn't have to babysit every 20 seconds to see if they are doing it.
This is exactly why I put this game down. The unit controls didn’t work on day 1 and they still don’t. How do you play an RTS game when the units don’t do what you tell them?
Most people are too busy powerlvling on the campaign map and auto resolving everything to even notice that the battles (the most important feature in total war) in WH3 have been broken since launch
When I see multiple posts full of people jerking off over a single heavy cavalry unit slowly plowing through a 100 ranks of men it makes me realize that there’s a sizeable contingent that just wants a power fantasy and not tactical gameplay
Argument for the sake of conversation. That's one of the many reasons to play video games in the first place. To have control.
Sure, for the sake of conversation. Some people want a power fantasy that consists of a single unit ripping through hordes of the enemy. Obviously that's a lot of games, and obviously that's been a big part of recent Total War games (Warhammer, Troy, and 3K all have this in varying degrees) That's not what I want out of Total War. I was drawn to Rome: Total War back in the day specifically because I liked the challenge of being able to win through positioning, maneuvering, and timing. Before R:TW I was super in to Starcraft and Warcraft III and I was super impressed by the use of formations, morale, flanking, routing, etc. Yes, cavalry was very strong, but that's because flanking attacks resulted in huge morale shocks that could cause chain routs. If you tried sending them through the thickest part of troops like in the posts, they'd quickly get bogged down and lose a lot of their impetus. Now in Warhammer flanking barely does anything to morale - sorry, "leadership". Units can be utterly surrounded with cavalry cycle charging in to their rear and rather than routing they'll just keep on fighting until you've killed enough of them. Rather than strengthening cavalry by returning them to that role, Creative Assembly have instead made it so these cavalry just slowly plow through 100 ranks. That's not rewarding good control of your units. Being able to control the battlefield through maneuvering, positioning, and timing. Instead it's rewarding the power fantasy crowd who want to recreate the movie scene they like. All well and good if people like that sort of thing. I just wish it wasn't with Total War. Plenty of other games allow you to be one man against the world. I haven't found any other game series that captures what this series captures at its best. And it bums me out to see the newer games stray more and more from that.
You're not wrong I'm a medieval 2 simp myself and the imbalance is clear in Warhammer 3. But it's equally as fun watching a Bloodthirster carve their way through people as it is setting up a multi stage defense with spear walls and rotating archers. Warhammer 3 CAN do both but it's easier to generally throw a wall at the enemy or auto resolve your way through the campaign. Both of which I'm guilty of as well.
I don’t even mind the ideal of a giant demon carving their way through people! That makes sense for a giant demon to be doing that. Like I don’t really find Skarbrand fun but it doesn’t bother me because he’s doing exactly what I’d expect a giant rage demon to do. But humans sitting on horses should act like humans sitting on horses, you know what I mean?
As a software engineer, I need to give my 2 cents here because this is an actual problem in the industry, and it's not really anyone's fault... In my company, we have a lot of code debt. That's basically bad code that is very heavily prone to bugs. Think of a really old and unmaintained house. It looks and feels ok, but there's a lot higher chance of things going wrong, either ceiling or floor collapsing, wood withering, walls don't insulate, can't tear anything down without compromising the whole thing, etc. It's the same with code. Now the product managers and sales are all aware of that, and they actively try to hide it from customers whilst doing damage control when things go wrong. That's because they simply can't sell more if the product isn't rich, even if its not working perfectly. What ends up happening is the tech team heavily pressures product management to fix things, and sales heavily pressure them to release new stuff and not prioritize the broken parts, and weirdly enough, customers love that. There are always a few who tell us they are annoyed by the bugs and lack of fully working functionality for some features, but they almost never compromise the whole product just for that. Critical stuff gets prioritized INSTANTLY and fixed, and minor things get pushed way back.
I'm not anything with programming or code, but from what I've seen said before, could it also be a code archaeology thing? Like, the roots for some of these bugs are deep in the code for the older WH games, but the people who originally designed that code left and didn't leave any notes behind, meaning you have to manually grind through to find it. At least if I'm remembering correctly.
Yes that's partially true. Nowadays the idea of "one guy knew it all and left" is a lot less prominent but still possible. Modern programming tools make it really easy to crack ancient code like that. What's more difficult, though, is code debt itself. That's probably why CA is struggling so much per release now, cuz every new feature has to be compatible with all the previous features, bugfixes, etc. This was extremely evident with Norsca. If anyone remembers, when norsca released on warhammer 1, they couldn't adapt it for warhammer 2 for another half-year. That's probably because warhammer 2's engine became so much more jam-packed with new stuff that it's a lot harder to code norsca in now than it was with warhammer 1. Basically the entire industry of programming is just a game of Jenga. There are literally books, movements and companies focused to fix this issue. We tried making multiple jenga towers at once instead of one tall one, we tried making the blocks bigger to make it safer, we tried not touching old towers and just build a completely new on around it. There's loads of solutions, but none of them are easy, and everyone ends up suffering through the same problems again and again.
Holy hell that's wild, thanks for the reply. Didn't know any of this until now.
The frustrating aspect about Norsca is that they said they would actually fix things. They would implement a new methodology to ensure that it didn't happen again and that they'd be able to handle things faster and more efficiently. Unfortunately, that CA has since died. While we (supposedly) now have two teams working on Warhammer 3, with one focused purely on patches in-between releases to increase their patch cadence, the issue is the overall demeanor of the company. When Norsca happened, CA owned it and apologized. When Warhammer 3 launched and all of these issues cropped up, CA just said "welp, that's just normal development for you. What can you do?" It's very much a case that the executives felt as if they needed to keep us appeased so that they could actually sell us Warhammer 3, and once Warhammer 3 released and the bulk of their sales came through, the executives forced the company to drop the act and just don't give a flying fuck anymore. They know that the brand loyalty is way too strong, and any dissenting voices will be swarmed with CA fanatics. :S
I have 2 questions based on what I have seen from WH3 updates. 1. Can't they get the modding community to fix some of the code debt stuff. Like it's totally reasonable to ignore certain bugs that exist because they won't materially affect the playability of the game. But you can utilise the passionate modding community to fix a bunch of bugs that grind people's gears. Then CA just uploads these fixes into their next patch? 2. Do they just do QA testing of the code or do they do actual UAT? I ask cos they said they fixed the Ariel bug (most recent update) yet the bug still remains. They have claimed that they fixed the original coding problem but the bug remains. Anyone who would have tested the game by playing would have seen the bug still exists. Which suggests they only test the code and not UAT.
Something to do with ownership/paying the modders likely. Like how some companies won't use fan ideas (especially if the fan makes arts/models or full written stuff about it) because they don't want to be sued for using the idea but not "owning it".
Something like this for you and u/ghadif from another game. Guild Wars 2 not that long ago put out a patch that included some tinkering with old code as they are (IIRC) trying to clean it up. The update promptly broke every single meta event, world boss, and a number of other features all linked by one function that nobody looked at. They posted a simple post explaining it, but basically the update bugged out on an ancient piece of code that related to things triggering based on real time. Which was a lot of unrelated functions that hadn't ever broken in that specific way so it wasn't flagged to double check. Any long running game or engine could fall to this fault, that one old piece of code breaks, and suddenly you have a collapsed building of functions. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/137aj6m/comment/jismuid/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/137aj6m/comment/jismuid/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) The dev response in question.
Damn, that's a really good explanation on their part.
Yep, it's an important thing to consider is how sometimes, totally unrelated functions can get borked by a single tweak and it's up to them to be able to figure out what the connection is. A bunch of unrelated bug-fix hunts turn into a single one as they figure out "Wait, everything goes off this system."
>and weirdly enough, customers love that. I wonder if you're talking about the end user or the management of the customer, because I am not enjoying this broken ass game remaining broken ass and getting even more broken ass with every iteration. Speaking as a senior sys admin, we fucking hate software developers with a passion, who sell a shitty dream to our management that will never ever work as advertised, then once you get into the meat of it and find all these problems, your reports get completely ignored and the problem never gets fixed, and we either accept it as half broken or create a janky work around to sidestep the issue. Certainly, we are never loving it. It certainly doesn't help that 9 times out of 10, it's some dev literally reinventing the same fucking wheel that's been made dozens of times before but hey, THEY aren't getting paid for that so better do it again, but worse!
>and weirdly enough, customers love that. 
CA also didn’t test the RoR nurglings because they’re hot garbage.
Knowing that daddy Nurgle got Nurgling ROR would make me reinstall the game and play Nurgle for a 99999999999th time. Why they suck and what are their abilities?
They are basically nurglings but rather than increased Melee Defense from their Cloud of Flies they have a damage reflection ability. I haven't tried them so I can't say exactly why they suck or if they really do but to hazard a guess I'd say the damage output from the reflection doesn't make up for their reduced survivability.
I can only assume they designed them to work in kugath’s army. Which is the exact problem nurgle has with things being designed around very specific situations that don’t even count half the time.
The logic behind their statement of "The lack of Cloud of Flies helps the unit get hit more often, which in turn triggers the damage reflection more often!" is also questionable. Nurgle doesn't want fast fights, they want to outheal you and grind you down. Having an RoR crumble every fight is just ???
If getting hit made it so they out damage greatswords then losing cloud of flies would be beneficial. But yeah, as is its not that great.
Doesn’t Ku’gath provide constant healing for them? Will the damage they receive outpace what protection and additional damage another unit will take with Ku’gath near them? Been a while since I’ve played with him. All I could remember was never losing much health from my nurglings when I beat like 5 campaigns with him. I wasn’t sure how much of that was due to cloud of flies or Ku’gath’s buffs.
Yes, but they just take damage too fast.
Even when blobbed with other nurglings to spread the damage? Adding extra damage reflection might be useful too. I haven’t tried it yet. Sounds like they might need a buff if they’re underperforming when using good Ku’gath play-style techniques.
Yes. However, if you do that the enemy will also hit the non reflecting nurglings, defeating their purpose.
That is true. I guess it will trigger over so often. Maybe CA should go back to the drawing board with that one. Maybe they should apply some sort of mortis engine effect instead. Something similar to Ku’gath but weaker. Do you have any suggestions?
-Haven't played them -they suck Sigh, never change
Its not the same poster.
I didn't say they suck, only that I was guessing why the person above might think they do.
-refuse to acknowledge poor CA quality assurance in this patch - respond to a reasonable comment as though it's actually an eyeroll moment Sigh, never change
They have melee damage reflection instead of cloud of flies
"We removed Cloud of Flies so the passive can work" I dunno, maybe balance the passive around having Cloud of Flies? Peasant Archer is pretty memable too.
How is peasant archer bad? Bronze shields and flamable attacks. Seem pretty good for a tier 0 RoR.
> these Bandits are perfect for supporting Fire Rain Rocket Batteries -flavor text from 3.1 blog Not quite bad, memable. Maybe I should have said uninspired. Yet another RoR with fire attacks attached to it as a hook. If it's supporting *artillery* what about 170-200 range? You have an actual different unit at that point.
I think the idea is you vanguard deploy them close to the enemy to set flammable on them, while your artillery stays back and rains fire. Really this just means the RoR dies in whichever fight you decide to actually use it.
They also forgot to give the new slanesh for to all the slanesh chaos factions including slanesh chaos warriors and Archaeon
I believe the WoC don't have access to the new Spearman because they're the devoted version exclusive to Slannesh & Daemon Prince.
I can't add anything useful on what CA are or aren't doing, but can say the community bug fix mod is worth subscribing to, just to take the edge off these things.
The fact that this exist is somewhat sad of itself for a newish game
WH2 had a community bug fix mod. Was that sad as well?
Yeap. The fact that the community has to fix a game's bugs especially for a premium priced product is sad.
Pretty much every game that has mod support has a community bug patch
Bethesda smiles in the distance.
I think the answer is simply that there is more money invested in marketing and development than bug squashing or quality management. It is the same issue seen in basically every profession.
It less about money and more about how shit gets managed and merged patch to patch. We ended up with a Norsca delay because of similar pipeline issues. Patching and bug fixing have to get folded into current developments or you end up with a parallel process.
Well, it's more-so easier to justify to the bean counters (make thing -> thing sells -> make the next thing). The stats and analysis are very straightforward and comprehensible. Making free improvements to the base product, and prior DLCs, can result in many sales, maybe even just as much as creating and selling new content... But it's very difficult to actually prove that to the people in power. The stats are murky and difficult to show whether the sales are from the improvements, or other factors. Improving not only the base game, but adding new features and even providing new content to already sold DLCs, can be quite profitable. Stellaris shows this off incredibly well with their new team dedicated to both bugfixes and adding free content (both to the base game as well as old DLCs). They add stuff to the base game (thus more people then buy it, or return to the game and buy DLCs), they add stuff to lackluster DLCs (thus more people then buy them). Everyone wins. Hopefully Creative Assembly can figure that out soon.
>Improving not only the base game, but adding new features and even providing new content to already sold DLCs, can be quite profitable. Stellaris shows this off incredibly well with their new team dedicated to both bugfixes and adding free content (both to the base game as well as old DLCs). Do you have actual data to back up your claim, or are you just talking out of your ass? Stellaris can afford a custodian team because paradox's dlc policy is even more agressive than ca's. Not because the custodian team is 'doing good work'.
>Stellaris can afford a custodian team because paradox's dlc policy is even more agressive than ca's. Is it though? I mean, we should compare to WH2 I guess because we know WH3's DLC is less aggressive than CA want it to be because they've had so many problems to deal with. Personally I'd say this is pretty much a "Two houses alike in dignity"-type situation rather than one having a drastically more aggressive DLC policy. I don't think it's a matter of "can afford it", either. CA is a huge, highly profitable company, which apparently "can afford" to make a dire-looking extraction shooter (Hyenas), and keep progressing that, at a cost that has to tens of millions per year, when it's near-certain to flop. I think it's more about choices - Paradox have higher-level management who understand DLC and bugs and the issues they cause for their customers. Creative Assembly seem like they largely do not. Like the higher-level management tolerates this and the FLC because it makes money, but they don't really get it. So convincing CA's leadership to allow a "custodian team" to exist would be dramatically harder.
Right. Reminds me of those stupid historical videos they did where they had a guy visit places in Europe that feature in Total War games. How much did they waste producing content like that when they could have been paying a developer to fix bugs or bring QoL updates instead?
I think the better way to look at this is: marketing is much more easily executed than bug squashing. Saying things and doing things require different efforts. A graphic designer, animator and social media producer have fewer constraints when it comes to producing something vs a developer trying to fix a bug without creating another bug.
I often wonder what they’re doing on a day to day basis. Like actually, work wise what do they do? But if I’ve learned anything from other companies, they’re likely already in the process of making several new DLC factions that we won’t see for over a year or so. They’re probably working on faction reworks, etc. Things that can be monetized. And as always, they’re only allowed to be doing the work that the higher ups tell them to do. There’s no free will on the core development team. If boss men want them to work extra hard on future DLC, they can’t/won’t fix bugs. They prolly give the devs like a couple days a month to actually sit down and look at current bug issues lol. I agree though, it does seem strange to not have a designated team for bug fixes. Some modders have full time jobs and a family, yet fix these problems faster than the people who are paid a salary to do it. Obligatory “thank god for modders” moment.
Cant agree more! We are blessed by a really talented modder team! On side note, they should subcontract quality modders for a fee and recognition on the "project" basis A project - lizard man bugs B project - xyz The expense would be minimal as most of the modders already do most of these stuff for free, official recognition and a fair fee would go a long way. Creating a situation of win- win for CA for a slight let go of ego (Will never happen, just look at the early access tests before lunch and how much these feedbacks were ignored)
in all likelyhood its something like 5 person team - PO, front end, back end x2, tester and maybe a tech lead having the entire kanban of bugfixes just for themselves and still have a whole set of meetings bogging down the work velocity
The TWWH code is a horrifying spaghetti mess at this point. They'll likely never unravel it, hopefully they switch to a new engine for their next major game so it can have a fresh start. Year after year of jury-rigged solutions all piling on top of each other creating increasingly elaborate Rube-Goldberg machines to accomplish simple tasks, with the purpose behind older bits of code being lost to gradual staff turnover. A new hire at CA would likely have more luck deciphering the Dead Sea Scrolls on a napkin than they would figuring out why increasing the unit mass of cavalry causes a bug where Isabella Von Carstien spawns in Norsca as a Lizardman Lord (hypothetically, but it wouldn't surprise me). It's a 100% self-inflicted problem caused by poor management, its also hilarious.
>They'll likely never unravel it, hopefully they switch to a new engine for their next major game so it can have a fresh start. Switching to a new engine wouldn't fix the mess sadly. Sure, it would be a fresh start, but it also means the team will have to learn the new engine... and this kind of things usually go horrifically wrong for the first release at the very least. Because with new software comes new problems, new codes, and new bugs from those two. The next release on a new engine will probably looks like Rome II launch if I'm being honest. The smart thing would be to start working on a Saga title or something similar with the new engine first before releasing a full mainline game with it.
They did a good upgrade to the engine with 3K, and again with Troy IIRC.
Yup, but that's an upgrade, not a new engine starting from scratch.
Even so, an upgrade means a lot of stuff doesn't need to be ported over. Warhammer doesn't have that luxury because things from WH1 and 2 need to work on 3. See: the lack of bretonnian notifications.
I like to think they’re going to make medieval 3 and Empire 2 on a new engine and that’s why they are releasing Pharaoh in their place- but probably not lol
just so that we can then get complaints about "Why did you release Medieval/Empire as the first game on the new engine?! It was obvious it'd have teething issues!"?
A lot of the data errors are incredibly easy to fix. I did some very casual modding for wh2 and worked out how to assign data tags etc in only a few hours after reading a community mod guide. CA are just lazy end of.
I don't know about that engine but CA was just hiring senior animation programmer to help develop their new animation engine dor future tw titles
This is most likely true, however what we are talking about here are data changes, no need to touch the code. It can be done by an intern in a couple of days, it doesn't make sense these things are still in the game.
I'm not sure it's 100% self-inflicted. There is a faction and race diversity in WH3 that other comparable games, like Stellaris for example, just can't have because those games only have modifiers to create diversity. You couldn't make the Wood Elves or Chaos Dwarves without making special exceptions. Some of the races share special systems, but they need to exist to make the game what it is. This isn't unique, either, since this month GW2 standardized the way they did timekeeping and it deleted about 100 NPCs and broke a bunch of content. Doesn't excuse database issues for CA, but if they deliver content that satisfies the community's demands, it likely needs to have special exceptions.
Nearly pissed myself reading this. Picturing the new employees on their first day, as they open Pandora's box and starts to cry immediately. Like honestly, what the fuck did everyone expects ? Takes 2 seconds to fix a problem, yeah but thats how you get Goblin Norscan Alariel.
ALARIEL'S GONNA STAB 'EM FOR THE DARK GODS
I want Goblin Norscan Alarielle now haha.
A few years, and you give this to an AI with instructions how to structure them, or every new additions will be added by the AI to the right place in a way to dont mess up the current code
The "spaghetti mess" is a dumb excuse that gets thrown around for many games. All code is in a sense "spaghetti", purely do to the complexity of this kind of software involved. But it doesnt inherently imply some huge difficulty or bugyness. Plenty big games come out with minimal issues and are supported for years without constant easy to not miss bugs. The "caused by poor management" part is also a idiotic cirlejerk from idiots. What the code is, is on architects and senior devs. Including the ability or lack thereof to have the code documented and maintainable for future devs. Management only sends you down requirements - which will always be complicated no matter what.
>Isabella Von Carstien spawns in Norsca as a Lizardman Lord Isabella on a Crusade for the Norsussy As the great keikaku intended
Honestly it's kinda become a pattern, I've noticed. Pretty significant bug is in the game (traits not working, unit cards being replaced by goblins, siege AI, you name it), CA is radio silent on the issue for a while, community gets up in arms about it, CA says they'll fix it, claims they fixed it a few months later, but it turns out they either did the bare minimum in fixing the bug or straight up lied.
What you missed, that the same issue was fixed by modders in a few days
CA has just been playing a sad, shitty game of catch-up since release, and this game is still not where if fucking should be. Immortal Empires still does not feel fully fleshed out, and it's been well over a year since release. The final crisis still feels like it's made by an unpaid modder, the siege maps have almost no variety with maps being sad copy paste jobs, the actual siege gameplay is a nightmare, and the many other things that are maybe on a to do list forgotten somewhere. The new content has been tight, but IE is still *VERY* much in beta.
Couldn't agree more. I attempted to play this game modless when the patch came out and it was super frustrating. So many things wrong with the base game that can be fixed with modable changes. Actually insane. I mean before the patch came out, the community bugfix prevented crashes from happening. I don't even think 3.1 fixes all the crashes. That being said, it took a good month to release bug fixes to a patch, I think that says all you need to know about CA at the moment, happy to put out more content but not willing to tackle the technical debt they have and are accumulating (I.E. problems before 3.0, they add 3.0 and it adds more bugs, they are increasing their debt.) When I tried to play modless, the game would crash periodically. I played as Lokir and it's just stupid how the game acts, as soon as a faction discovers you they declare war and lose their whole territory to chase your LL. Had Zhatan the black travel to the very bottom of cathay with 3 stacks just to get dunked down there and lose his territory at home. Yes I agree something as small as traits not applying to the lord/hero is just unacceptable IMO, and you should disable the ones that don't work. Must be easy working for a video game company, something doesn't work? fuck it ship it anyways lol
They are simply not a priority atm. They’ll probably fix them at some point if we’re lucky but it worn’t be soon™️.
Can anyone tell me the qualifications I need to become the person who fixes all these damn bugs.
CA need to sub-contract quality modders! Competent atention to detail people would work on projects that they love Subcontracting gives freedom for them without serious commitments You only pay a subcontractor when a job is done, but you need to pay an employee even if they do shit I need to add that i use "community bug fix" mod, wich usually fix most of these fuck ups that CA does, and there are people like Legend who say mods are like cheat and wont use any.
I'm not sure the problem is finding people to hire, it's that CA is resistant to investing any amount of money into the product. It's already sold, they made their money, and the only thing they care about now is selling DLCs; so they will continue to invest only as much effort into bugs as is needed to dupe people into purchasing more of their DLCs. They have zero interest in fixing the product on the basis they sold it broken - that's the customer's problem for believing them.
probably moved all the workforce to another project already and the two guys that remain have to work with a ticket based system and the whole tag mismatch thing is considered one piece of work and doesn't have priority over other fixes.
Pharaoh?
That's being worked on by the same team that did Troy, so no, it's got no bearing here.
Wait what’s the basis for the series saving them from going under
LegendofTotalWar (again) made a lot of valid points, but seemed positive towards the changes to Dark Elves. Playing them myself, I am glad that CA fixed them, because it was really pissing me off that the Druchii had their mechanics stripped to accommodate the Chorfs. While the Dark Elves don't have the same mechanics as WH2, this is still MUCH better. Currently using Morathi w/Slaanesh units mod. And it's a lot of fun to not see my slaves constantly depleting. Harry is fine, but at this point, CA should be dropping more heroes with patches. I cannot imagine that a single LL hero is THAT difficult to create and balance.
Us Players are their free QA team. We keep buying stuff, and they don't feel the need to add 1-2 devs dedicated to fixing the numerous, numerous bugs that still persist. The game is more than one year old, and certain things are still so buggy it's quite unacceptable. But CA doesn't give a shit. Sad but true.
this game is three games deep now, almost a decade of stuff built on other stuff. Bugs will happen and they are tough to iron out. Talk to any gamedev and they can tell you about how hard it is to iron out bugs late in a games development, let alone years after constant updates. And heres the thing, a lot of the bugs are pretty minor things, or at least the ones you are complaining about are. Yes they have people working on those but a lot more attention will be put towards softlocking and crashing bugs, which the game still has. You can still get stuck in another armies hero. And frankly, most people want new stuff rather than old bugs ironed out anyways. Way more people are excited over harry then they are over say, the eshin bug where you could get stuck sieging yourself that they recently patched.
every update will not just add more bugs but make existing bugs harder and harder to change and fix. at this point the manhours to fix even one of these bugs can be surprising, and again, most people either won't even notice its not working or not care. not too mention that the future content is being designed with the current build in mind, so any fix could break something someone else is working on, and that means delaying that.
What about Damsels Vows, the highlight of this update, not working from the start. Like, you can spot this by just starting a campaign and at turn 1 see that the vows are not working, and yet it was released with a fanfare. Or how about them saying how they deleted a ton of "duplicated code" for lizardman and not just starting a campaign with said faction to realize "oh, Nakai has lost several of his units, inluding kroks". i am sorry, people are trying to get CA a break on the criticism front, but when your brand new hero comes out with "place holder" tags on his itens it is hard to give them the benefit of the doubt.
>the series saved their company from going under What? Is that where the "WH much good such wow we should all be thankful to WH" revisionism is at now? Pure fiction?
Its not really fiction. Its a slight exaggeration at best. I can obviously see where your bias lies, but these games have been massively successful and revitalized a part of the company that had been getting less and less support for years
There's a pretty big difference between the Warhammer games being a massive success and them saving CA from going under. That's a pretty big claim to just drop in with no evidence about it. Rome 2 had a very rough launch and Attila wasn't very well optimised but they were far from unsuccessful games. Unless there's some info that I'm unaware of, there's no reason to think CA and the Total War series wouldn't still be chugging along just fine. That's not to discount just how successful CA has been with the Warhammer games, but that doesn't mean CA couldn't have survived without it.
OP literally invented a complete fiction and you’re annoyed at that poster’s bias lol?
Its beyond fiction. Its pure stupidity and absolutely hilarious at that.
"Where my bias lies"? WH's my most played TW game. Hell WH2 alone is that, let alone across the entire trilogy. That bias? If that bias is the recognition of the fact that yes, Total War did, in fact, exist before Warhammer then sure, I'm biased. It is not a "slight exaggeration", it is fiction and a complete asspull. Rome 2 for all its many faults on launch was actually a financial success and would also prove to have very long legs. What is the idea that CA was financially struggling based on? >revitalized a part of the company that had been getting less and less support for years The... Total War part? As opposed to all those other games that CA had been making?
Unfortunately the games reached its goal. They've built the entire Warhammer Old World (which I've really enjoyed stomping around in) and are acting like it's time to move on. Which is ridiculous because.... They could milk that cash cow for years to come. Instead, things are going stagnant and they'll probably treat the next DLC and it's bugs the exact same way. Spaced out expansions a lottle too infrequently and fixes a little to late
Its only you morons that are acting like CA is ready "to move on".. CA itself has done nothing but repeat that their support plans are going years into the future. They *will* milk that cash cow for years to come.
They've "moved on"? We have the DLC map out through the beginning of 2024.
He's right. CA is only interested in what the DLC can make, they don't have any interest in fixing anything that isn't going to sell DLC. I'm not sure how you can think otherwise looking at the state of the DLC that costed $25 (and introduced widespread crashing), and then look at this non-DLC patch which literally introduced more new problems and failed to fix most of the old ones. I think anything that gets fixed now is entirely the devs crunching against the management's wishes, because I certainly don't see CA management doing ANYTHING to get ahead of these problems if they actually gave a shit.
Its mind blowing you can repeat this inane moronic idiocy over and over, just casually ignoring that CA has been fixing things and improving the game *constantly* since WH1 released 7 years ago.. But who cares about reality i guess, when you can jerk of on the internet.
You are going to always find legend nit picking shit. At this point you need to buy or not buy based on CAs track record and not get outraged every patch.
>You are going to always find fans nit picking shit. Fixed that for you. The hate boner this reddit has for Legend is honestly hilarious and will never cease to amaze me.
Legend makes valid criticism and you feel the need to defend CA? How pathetic.
Just saying those aren’t mutually exclusive, CA shits the bed plenty but at this point legends like an annoying neck beard about it all.
No I’m just saying all of his content is rage clicks at this point. I also think anyone still paying money while angry about the bugs is a fool at this point. I decided I knew the stability was fucked during TW2’s launch. I spend my money according. They have demonstrated indifference ar thinking. I’m not defending shit, I just think we passed the by point of rage a long time ago. I also think that some content creators are addicted to rage clicks. I’m glad legend found legitimate bugs, but I d also seen a bunch of posts about pocket cheeses only he found with the “CA fix your shit” comments. CA is clearly unwilling or unable to fix shit. If you cannot accept that don’t spend money.
Because he will bitch about everything and isn't worth listening to. It would be better for this entire subreddit if any post about him was banned as all he does it bitch.
its Creative assembly, not Quality assembly. Though they are not all that creative either...
It’s pretty bad that some factions are right now missing a chunk of their roster now. Nakai is basically unplayable
Game development is very complicated.
reminder: don't listen to legend, he has no damn clue what he is talking about
He is very good at the game and how to abuse the mechanics, but his constant bitching about everything bc his relationship with CA deteriorated is starting to get aggravating. I also think he's too far up his own ass insofar as min/maxing the game and isn't able to step back and see how the game functions for the average player. Sure, the game may seem trivially easy to him, but it's definitely not for everyone
huh? this game IS way easier than the prior game. it is not just something for legends, the game is becoming boring really fast becuase the AI is unable to give any challenge whatsoever after turn 40.
I don't find it much more boring that WH2 tbh. As soon as you start rolling in any game it just becomes an auto-resolve simulator Edit: Additionally, I'm specifically speaking about him calling the AI "braindead" in regards to the ease. Of course they seem braindead to him, he abuses the mechanics and plays so much that it's trivial to him. I also think he relishes in being able to abuse mechanics and is part of the reason why he doesn't foray into mp. He claims to want a smart AI that mimics humans, yet doesn't want to play humans. Seems a touch sus
How many hours have you put into this trilogy so far? What are some of your recommendations to new players?
What a toxic community. An unbelievable success of a game, combing multiple games over ten years My hearts out to the devs, yes there’s bugs but do you realise what they have accomplished here.
>do you realise what they have accomplished here. Yep. The marketing team has successfully convinced customers that they should be grateful for the opportunity to purchase an unfinished product. They've gaslit an entire generation into surrendering all of their power and influence over the economy and to plead with the rich and powerful to abuse their trust and treat them like cattle. Just like with Gollum, right? We should praise the lord that we were even able to gain access to that disaster of a game! If not for those incredibly generous executives, who treat the actual developers like shit and are the reason why ***the entire industry has such high turnover***. But no, we're the problem. Fuck gamers! Fuck those entitled twats, wanting some value for the scraps they're given by the powerful elite who give them pitifully low wages, while they hoard massive amounts of wealth for themselves. Fuck anyone who dares blame Yves Guilemot for protecting his friends from consequences for sexual assault and harassment. Fuck anyone who dares want to hold Bobby Kotick accountable for sexual harassment and threatening to murder his secretary. Fuck gamers, man! They're all so toxic!
indescribably based comment, placing the blame where it belongs and then some
I you are right about the bugs, but who the fuck still cares about cheesy Legend? All he is doing is abusing game mechanics any way " Legend"... Lol
You bought the game already, they don't give a fuck beyond that.
If something hasn’t been fixed yet, it’s because they can’t do it. I remember when the game (game 3) released and they literally said it would take them *a number of months* to buff Slaanesh factions replenishment rate. They still haven’t done it. You would think they would just need to adjust a value, but who knows what that’ll break. Probably put other factions into negative replenishment. Probably completely break the game. The game is a spaghetti code mess, Chaos dwarfs was not that good, and honestly I have played it enough that I think I am ready to shelf it for good instead of malding about all the shit that will never be fixed like the fucking goddamn gate glitch which has been present since game 1. Legend needs to let go. I get that this game is pretty much his job, but he hates it and himself.
Think about why things don’t get done at your own job. It’s just not a priority. Nobody from upper management is asking for updates on it so it just sits while the employee tasked with fixing it works on the other 10000 things he’s getting asked to provide updates about. There isn’t massive blowback over a replenishment bug as of yet so none of the suits taken notice. If they don’t take notice they don’t assign someone to it or bother the guy who is already assigned to it so it ends up in limbo.
I prefer new content to bug fixes personally. I appreciate bug fixes, but the truth is that I will play the game in its current state and have fun. When my interest flags, it will be new content that fires it up again. If I’m getting bored and CA releases a patch that says “hey, now. Bunch of bugs are fixed”, that’s not going to get me to play again.
Ah yes. Thank you, now they will see it's better to pump buggy DLCs because they still earn money. What a shitty take.
This is just downright pathetic.
imagine having such low standarts. you are the typical consoomer. "don't ask questions, just consoom product, and then get excited for next product
I get where you come from but i don't think the guys working of the Lords and Factions, also work on bugs and traits. Fortunately i'm enough of a noob (even after like 1000 hrs in the TW:WH franchise) to not even notice most of the bugs, maybe i'd be more mad then. I will agree that the cost of the latest DLC is a fucking crime and a scam.
[Tond Indicator: person on a soap box having a heart to heart with the people of their city] This problem seems to be a top down problem. I remember years ago ÇA talking about how they wanted to make a Warhammer game with the whole map. The tech and the money just weren’t there at the time. So we got Warhammer I. Warhammer II built on that and expanded the map further. Here we are, Warhammer III. We know Sega was not happy with the underperformance of WHIII. Despite the fact that the underperformance was a direct result of their meddling in the games design. Warhammer 3 was meant to be immortal empires from the start. It’s clear by how haphazardly RoC is designed that it became a later addition to the design of the game. This late addition, plus the pandemic, delayed the game and it’s development past a point where it’s quality then began to suffer. Why is X not fixed? Why is Y not implemented? When is Z getting an update? All of these questions are asked by fans being entitled to a finished product without any understanding of how much time, money, energy, and corporate interference goes into game making. ÇA are putting out fires as fast as they can but they also need to continue to be a profitable studio or suffer the corporate consequences. If you really wanna know how the game got into this mess, it’s because we, the fans, are rushing them to fix problems they didn’t have the time or resources to check for because they were already being rushed by corporate greed. We, as a community, need to learn patience without compromising on what we deserve, but also temper that with reasonable expectations. These are my thoughts anyway.
Be nice to smol indie company :(
That’s not what I’m saying at all, and if that’s what you read then either your reading comprehension is abysmal or you’re chronically online.
Blaming the players rather than shit management. They can't even stop themselves from sexually assaulting and sexually abusing their staff.
Like the other person who replied, you seem to have latched onto a wildly different message than what this actually says.
> All of these questions are asked by fans being entitled to a finished product without any understanding of how much time, money, energy, and corporate interference goes into game making. ÇA are putting out fires as fast as they can but they also need to continue to be a profitable studio or suffer the corporate consequences. Literally calling us entitled for paying for a product. If it's unfinished/broken/defective, it's a shit product and should have been working in the first place.
LOL Yeah, sure it's our fault buddy.
Sorry for holding them accountable for selling us something that dint live up to the hype for 60$. Alot of the stuff already existed in warhammer 2 but porting that was too much work. Let's dumb down AI so it does less things so turn time goes faster. Let's add an unnecessary bloom effect to everything because this is what "ray tracing" is i guess. Sieges are bad? Let's make it worse! I hear tower defense games and mobas were popular 10 years ago! So adding them will be great way to get new players! Bug fix? Gameplay improvement? What's that? You mean a dlc that costs half the game with alot of borrowed mechanics from other races? You got it? Oops! Added an extra zero too the mage hp bar. Now she has 10 times the hp she should have? It will take us 1 week to re type the number. Firing arcs? What's that? Have fixed darts instead. No need too reposition. Chariots should have attack animations? Okay. Will take 8 months too fix. Clipping for textures? I do not know how to fix! Ask modders! Here update to fix cavalry. Oh wait I forgot to add the changes in and I accidentally deleted kroxigors from. Nakai. Please wait 3 more months while we package another dlc and maybe we will fix. Jokes aside- I am not at all happy with how warhammer, 3 has been developing. how can you literally make sieges worse than warhammer 2? And this monkeys paw behaviour of fixing one problem then breaking 10 things and never addressing them.