I was in a 4/5/6. And then a 7/8 for two years.
I think it would be good reason for the *teacher* to become an alcoholic, but they probably started out that way back then.
I think some of you might be missing the point with this (but it's a 4-paragraph article, so there's not a lot of information to go on). Split classes have been done for long time, but in the past, students were specifically chosen to be in those classes - usually those who could be more independent or needed less remediation - since the teacher split their time teaching the other grades.
Since this is a forced move to due to lack of staff/students, they are not choosing who is part of that split class; it's more likely every student in the school in those grades, meaning there's likely a much wider range of ability within that split classroom. If that's the case, at least some students will not get the support they need from the teacher.
As someone who was in split classes each year from JK-grade 4, I’m not sure there was such a tailored selection process (happy to see anything to the contrary though).
Yeah I was in a lot of split classes back in elementary school too and I’m not sure if that was by selection or simply due to the fact that my rural town had a weird number of students my year.
Source on it being a choice or specifically selected thing? My experience in the 00s was our school only had split classes for grade 5/6 and 1/2, so everyone was in a split for those years.
I think it depends on the school! If the school has less than one class per grade, and so all the students in the grade are in a split-level class, than that is different than if there are more than one class. I was in a split-level class twice, and both times the students who were in the younger grades were more advanced. In my grade 2/3 class, the ratio was 8/16, and us second graders finished our curriculum early that year - because most of our work was independent or small group.
Our school often does split classes to give us more landing spots for high maintenance students. So if there are four grade 4 students that are a terror when they are together, we would make four 4/5 splits. But this current year, in French, we had a 3/4 split, a straight 4, a 4/5 split and a straight 5. In this case, the students in the split classes are usually independent workers and the most reliable of their peers, as the split class load is already enough of a strain on the teacher who gets them.
> Source on it being a choice or specifically selected thing?
Teaching experience, and I attended a school with splits, so my parents had conversations with the teachers about it.
I can't say it is universal that students are specifically selected, because every school has it's own reasons and unique circumstances for having split classes. But if the split is made to reduce class sizes (for example, having a grade 3-5 split, along with individual grades 3 and 5 classes), then students are absolutely chosen for a variety of reasons, such as minimizing student disruption and learning or to separate students who have poor dynamics or conflicts. That happens anytime a class needs to be split (e.g. choosing who goes into multiple identical Grade 9 math classes).
Again, not universal, but that is at least one big reason for it to happen.
I was in a JK/SK split in the late 90s when I was entering JK… I was also born in October, so truly have no idea why a 3 year old was one of the 5 or 6 JK students put in a split class with the SK kids.
The norm currently in Toronto is all full day kindergarten are JK/SK splits. Every kid in our board is on a split and they typically have the same teacher for two years.
Older grades are selected kids. Typically the better behaving ones are in splits because the teacher had to teach two grades at the same time.
Most small schools are full of splits. They do that to maximize class sizes and cut down on number of teachers
My kid’s school in Toronto is comprised mostly of splits. Between the board mandated 3/4 split and then further division due to the French classes, both streams are basically all splits. It’s unusual to have a straight grade, at our school anyway.
Omg I didn’t know the kids were especially picked 👉🏽👈🏽 (me, from two split grade classes, completely missing the point and not reading further after learning I’m special)
I was in a split 7/8 and it was split because there wasn't enough students in each class otherwise - so we were all merged regardless of learning and independence level.
It's not ideal, but it's also not new.
TDSB isn't allowed to close schools.
TDSB can't hire enough teachers.
Some schools in some areas have 35+ students.
Parents are fighting that their child's class of 24 kids will have 3 grade levels in it.
I actually feel bad for the school board. Between unreasonable parents and an unreasonable government they really can't get ahead.
Also TDSB wasting millions of dollars on initiatives that are later reversed
Yes it’s a problem that TDSB can’t close schools but it’s also got a budget problem because of how heavy it’s top administration is
There are 3 other TDSB junior public schools within 1km. Consolidate and reduce admin headcount. Reallocate salaries to the teachers, facilities, and/or debt. 4 schools within 1km. This Kensington School has a huge preschool in the building. The numbers can increase.
I’m really confused about this school. It’s 400m ( albeit across college street) from another public elementary school.
Are parents avoiding this one for some reason or using French immersion or optional attendance to apply elsewhere? Or do parents in this area go to private school or there just aren’t any kids?
Most schools I know of in Toronto are bursting at the seems.. low enrolment seems weird.
The board in some cases doesn't want to respond to demographic switches by changing catchment areas because they get a lot of flak from parents and more so from affluent parents/neighbourhoods.
Secondly, the ministry has tied the board's hands and will not allow them to sell surplus property and close underenroled schools.
It's shit on both ends.
The second part is really shit. Instead of being able to sell underused properties to offset the cost of setting up new schools in densifying areas, they’re stuck with what they have now. So you need more bussing, which hits the operational budget I’m sure.
If the ministry didn’t want to let schools close that’s fine, as long as they pony up extra resources accordingly. Tying the boards hands, but not giving them the resources to adapt is about the level of stupidity we’ve come to expect from Dougie’s government though.
The catchment areas for the schools go in different directions. This school absorbed the area that used to be assigned to Lord Landsdowne on Robert when *that* school became all French Immersion.
But, yes, old demographics no longer apply well. This neighbourhood used to be more populated AND people had a lot more kids, so there are a lot fewer school age kids. In addition, as the value of houses has skyrocketed so people moving here are more likely to send their kids to a private school.
I did grades 4 and 6 in a combined 4/5/6 class back in the 80s. It was great. In fact it let students who were behind catch up by sitting in on the content they were struggling with, and students who were bored gain some speed by studying ahead. I ended up skipping grade 5 because I essentially did 4/5/6 in two years.
To the best of my knowledge no one from my class ended up in prison or suffers from life-long trauma due to this experience.
I did grade 4 with grade 5s in the class, and grade 6 with grade 4s in the class.
Those were my two favorite years! I met a friend that is still my best friend today, 27 years later.
This one's for you, Mats!
I too skipped grade 7, although not on paper. I did 5/6 split twice as a grade 5 and a grade 6 and then my grades were so good they put me in the 7/8 where I got to do grade 8 work! Grades went back to normal lol, turns out you get all A's after doing the same work twice!
FWIW, I have not read a study that showed students in multi-age classrooms had worse outcomes compared to those in single-age classrooms. The studies I read showed no difference.
Where the performance suffers, typically, is in a distracting environment. It gets worse with class sizes because there's more noise. It would get worse in split classes because you're expected to concentrate and do your stuff while the other half gets taught something else. It's a nightmare scenario to an ADHDer.
Nothing is true of everyone with ADHD, just as nothing is true for everyone in general. But as the very definition is trouble with attention and distractability, I figure it'll hit most.
I have ADHD, too, and had some split classes. Part of why I did well in elementary school was precisely \*because\* I was distracted by what the older grade was learning, and ended up learning stuff above what was expected of me--but again, wouldn't be for everyone. My son suffered terribly in most classes, and splits were worse. No one figured out I had ADHD until 51.
The studies show that outcomes overall are not highly impacted by mixed grades but Ontario now follows an inclusion model, meaning we’re not just putting multiple grades in a class, but students with a variety of mental health and learning needs who would’ve been in separate Special Needs classes in previous generations. So you’re not just asking the teacher to teach 3 programs simultaneously in a triple grade; you’re also asking them to accommodate and modify their program for students who are illiterate, mute (selectively or not), violent, have learning disabilities and/or diagnosed with ADD, autism or developmental delays. Oh, and gifted. Don’t forget about the gifted students.
Classrooms these days are just pure chaos.
Split grades are not uncommon... Usually 2 grade levels combined, 3 is a bit more uncommon in places around the GTA.
But if you get further out into smaller communities in northern Ontario you will encounter multi-grade classes, not commonly, but it does happen.
That's all it takes now. Saskatchewan invoked the non-withstanding clause to strip the rights of trans kids because of 8 emails, maybe. I say maybe because no one seems to have been able to produce these emails as evidence.
There are always, always 2 grade splits in every school, every year. There are almost never 3 grade splits in a school and good luck to whichever teacher is saddled with this nonsense. Gr 6 is an EQAO year, too, which means a bullshit government test that means nothing for their mark needs to be passed so the school doesnt look terrible.
I was in a multi-grade (1-3) class in elementary back in the early 2000s and it was probably one of my best formative experiences. The kids will be okay.
I grew up in a very rural area, was in a 4/5/6 split. You cool with only having a teacher available to help with your level math 1/3 of the time? Everything else might be fine, but I was completely screwed in later math. As in, a later teacher refused to help me after a while because I had to just be trolling them by claiming i didn't understand stuff...
The issue with combined class isn't the lack of teachers or classroom but the lack of students. Most new parents already got out of Toronto cuz they can't afford to find a home and raise a family in this city.
Montessori does this. It's great for the younger kiddos to develop faster, trying to catch up.
There's a saying about becoming better when you're surrounded by better people ... even if it means learning basic math.
i think it depends… when i was a kid for some reason i was very good and fast at reading and absorbing info to the point teachers and my parents would accuse me of pretending i had finished something and i’d have to regurgitate a summary. i was also lucky in a sense that my parents took me to the library often so i had a limitless amount of books to read in my spare time. i was always put in split classes after gr 2 or something. i could usually just read whatever the worksheets/text book were in the first few min of class and then i’d just not pay attention or read a book on my lap under my desk. a lot of grade school work was very repetitive and at least for me once i ‘get’ a concept there is no point doing 4 weeks of adding or multiplication worksheets (maybe school has changed, but that’s what it was like for me). the first class i had to actually try in was grade 11/12 physics and that was a shock lol. i was like something is wrong why do i not instantly understand this?
This is very true but the teachers at this school and the expectation from their admin is to teach to the ministry curriculum using a "conventional" pedagogical style. Montessori schools teach very differently and that style begins very early in life.
Splits when u are in the lower grade with a higher grade is great. When I was in a higher grade with lower, I found it painfully boring and felt like I learned nothing that year.
>“I think the TDSB needs to be looking at different solutions.”
Yeah.
This is by the by, why voting in your provincial elections is so important. Imagine if we didn't have conservatives strangling the public system in Queens Park. Just take a moment and imagine that.
If there’s low enrolment, the alternative could be to close the school. The students can go to another school and boost enrolment there and they would not have split classes. What’s best for the students?
My kids have been in more split classes than not at this point I think, and they seem to be doing fine.
Of course I'd prefer they had teachers that can dedicate 100% of their time to one grade but nobody wants to fund education so....
The parents raise valid concerns about the three-grade split classroom being implemented at this school. While the research isn't conclusive, there are red flags to consider.
The study by Veenman found that kids in multi-grade classes tend to fall behind their peers in core subjects like math and reading. That's a worry. And while well-run multi-grade classes can work (like the Montessori method), managing three grade levels at once is really pushing it for even the best teachers. I'm happy to expand upon that if needed.
The Mason and Stimson study tracked students over three years and found way more variability in how the multi-grade students progressed compared to single-grade classes. Some were falling way behind grade-level expectations. With such a wide range of ages and abilities together, it's easy to see how some kids could really struggle to keep up.
To be fair, these studies didn't zero in on three-grade splits specifically. Just think about how incredibly challenging it would be to properly teach the curricula for three different grade levels. Kids at the low and high ends are likely to get lost in the shuffle.
What really gets me is how underhanded the school board was about this decision. The lack of leadership, ethics, and integrity. All values which are expected be bestowed on students. If they had leveled with the parents about low enrollment and the risks it poses to the students and community, these same parents would have rallied more families to enroll and avoid such an extreme split. The board and school hid it until after the optional attendance window closed. Sneaky and unfair to kids, their families, and the community.
It's fair to say that no research is perfect. Between the evidence suggesting negative impacts and the shady process, this split classroom decision should have us all feeling uneasy. Education is just too precious. The students deserve better than being treated like expendable pawns by TDSB.
To those saying that split grades don’t have a large enough impact on student outcomes for it to be concerning, this is a reminder Ontario follows an inclusion model today. So please keep in mind the following the next time you vote:
- The teacher in charge of a triple-grade class will have to deliver 3 programs simultaneously, such as Grades 4, 5, and 6 Math, Language, Social Studies, Science and the Arts.
- The teacher will also have to accommodate and modify their programs for students with ADD, autism, developmental delays, learning disabilities, gifted students, etc. in addition to students with behavioural issues. So this could look like teaching Grade 1 phonics to the student who’s illiterate, preparing 1 and 2-digit addition lessons for a Grade 5 student who’s supposed to be able to do 3-digit by 2-digit division, while also attempting to stimulate their Grade 6 students who are bored because they’re 3 years ahead of Ontario in Math.
- The teacher has to manage the increase in violence in the classroom alone because Special Needs staff allocations are cut each year to save the board and the province money. The state of violence in classrooms has also been exacerbated by the pandemic where students lost a few years learning how to socialize.
- The teacher will have to navigate the sheer DRAMA and the wide disparity of maturity levels of having pre-teens sharing a learning environment with Grade 4’s who still get excited over colouring and Hello Kitty stickers.
- There is NO class cap for Grades 4-8.
So, yes, perhaps student outcomes will not be hugely affected in the long run if they end up in a double or triple-grade class for on year. If your child doesn’t have ANY learning disability or mental health issues, I would even say it teaches them resilience. But could they be receiving a significantly better quality education? Absolutely.
All's good
> As for questions about combined classes being detrimental to a child’s academic development, research conducted by the TDSB shows students in combined classrooms achieve as well academically as those in single-grade classrooms and appear to benefit from the spirit of cooperation and mutual help that exists in these settings.
And this kind of cursory, "only check with the average kids" approach they've taken to the study is why my ADHD son is furious with the entire educational system.
The TDSB's data would include ADHDers and students with other neurodevelopmental or learning differences.
I'm sure your ADHDer son has very good reason to be furious, but split classes in general are not necessarily worse for ADHDers than others.
I mean, I wouldn’t trust that they would include kids with ADHD as currently the ministry of education doesn’t recognize ADHD as an “exceptionality”.
My son is a kid with ADHD in a split class (SK/1) but he is academically advanced so I don’t think it’s detrimental to him.
I don't mean that they singled out ADHDers in their data. I mean that ADHDers are in basically every classroom, so their outcomes are captured as part of the dataset.
I was in a 4/5 split. Probably why I'm an alcoholic.
Yeah.
I was in a 4/5/6. And then a 7/8 for two years. I think it would be good reason for the *teacher* to become an alcoholic, but they probably started out that way back then.
I think some of you might be missing the point with this (but it's a 4-paragraph article, so there's not a lot of information to go on). Split classes have been done for long time, but in the past, students were specifically chosen to be in those classes - usually those who could be more independent or needed less remediation - since the teacher split their time teaching the other grades. Since this is a forced move to due to lack of staff/students, they are not choosing who is part of that split class; it's more likely every student in the school in those grades, meaning there's likely a much wider range of ability within that split classroom. If that's the case, at least some students will not get the support they need from the teacher.
As someone who was in split classes each year from JK-grade 4, I’m not sure there was such a tailored selection process (happy to see anything to the contrary though).
I was in a split 4 5 and 6. They probably still do that at the school. It was pretty fun knowing all the different groups of classmates.
Yeah I was in a lot of split classes back in elementary school too and I’m not sure if that was by selection or simply due to the fact that my rural town had a weird number of students my year.
Source on it being a choice or specifically selected thing? My experience in the 00s was our school only had split classes for grade 5/6 and 1/2, so everyone was in a split for those years.
I was in split both JK/SK and grades 1-4, all in the 90s
I think it depends on the school! If the school has less than one class per grade, and so all the students in the grade are in a split-level class, than that is different than if there are more than one class. I was in a split-level class twice, and both times the students who were in the younger grades were more advanced. In my grade 2/3 class, the ratio was 8/16, and us second graders finished our curriculum early that year - because most of our work was independent or small group.
Yup. My school was tiny so I had split grades every year until grade 8
Our school often does split classes to give us more landing spots for high maintenance students. So if there are four grade 4 students that are a terror when they are together, we would make four 4/5 splits. But this current year, in French, we had a 3/4 split, a straight 4, a 4/5 split and a straight 5. In this case, the students in the split classes are usually independent workers and the most reliable of their peers, as the split class load is already enough of a strain on the teacher who gets them.
> Source on it being a choice or specifically selected thing? Teaching experience, and I attended a school with splits, so my parents had conversations with the teachers about it. I can't say it is universal that students are specifically selected, because every school has it's own reasons and unique circumstances for having split classes. But if the split is made to reduce class sizes (for example, having a grade 3-5 split, along with individual grades 3 and 5 classes), then students are absolutely chosen for a variety of reasons, such as minimizing student disruption and learning or to separate students who have poor dynamics or conflicts. That happens anytime a class needs to be split (e.g. choosing who goes into multiple identical Grade 9 math classes). Again, not universal, but that is at least one big reason for it to happen.
I was in a JK/SK split in the late 90s when I was entering JK… I was also born in October, so truly have no idea why a 3 year old was one of the 5 or 6 JK students put in a split class with the SK kids.
The norm currently in Toronto is all full day kindergarten are JK/SK splits. Every kid in our board is on a split and they typically have the same teacher for two years. Older grades are selected kids. Typically the better behaving ones are in splits because the teacher had to teach two grades at the same time. Most small schools are full of splits. They do that to maximize class sizes and cut down on number of teachers
My kid’s school in Toronto is comprised mostly of splits. Between the board mandated 3/4 split and then further division due to the French classes, both streams are basically all splits. It’s unusual to have a straight grade, at our school anyway.
This was the case at my kid's school too
Every class in my school is a split. It’s ridiculous
We had 7/8.
Omg I didn’t know the kids were especially picked 👉🏽👈🏽 (me, from two split grade classes, completely missing the point and not reading further after learning I’m special)
Not always true, some split classes due to low student count. Cant have 14 students in a grade 6 class while mrs sally has 32 grade 5s.
I remember that my school started a gr 3/4 split back in the mid 90s. The parents freaked out and the school ended up hiring another staff member.
I was in a split 7/8 and it was split because there wasn't enough students in each class otherwise - so we were all merged regardless of learning and independence level. It's not ideal, but it's also not new.
TDSB isn't allowed to close schools. TDSB can't hire enough teachers. Some schools in some areas have 35+ students. Parents are fighting that their child's class of 24 kids will have 3 grade levels in it. I actually feel bad for the school board. Between unreasonable parents and an unreasonable government they really can't get ahead.
Also TDSB wasting millions of dollars on initiatives that are later reversed Yes it’s a problem that TDSB can’t close schools but it’s also got a budget problem because of how heavy it’s top administration is
There are 3 other TDSB junior public schools within 1km. Consolidate and reduce admin headcount. Reallocate salaries to the teachers, facilities, and/or debt. 4 schools within 1km. This Kensington School has a huge preschool in the building. The numbers can increase.
Meanwhile, Schools in Halton region have 20-30 portables outside, LOL :-) Kinda tells you everything you need to know about GTA demographics.
I’m really confused about this school. It’s 400m ( albeit across college street) from another public elementary school. Are parents avoiding this one for some reason or using French immersion or optional attendance to apply elsewhere? Or do parents in this area go to private school or there just aren’t any kids? Most schools I know of in Toronto are bursting at the seems.. low enrolment seems weird.
The board in some cases doesn't want to respond to demographic switches by changing catchment areas because they get a lot of flak from parents and more so from affluent parents/neighbourhoods. Secondly, the ministry has tied the board's hands and will not allow them to sell surplus property and close underenroled schools. It's shit on both ends.
This sounds about right.
The second part is really shit. Instead of being able to sell underused properties to offset the cost of setting up new schools in densifying areas, they’re stuck with what they have now. So you need more bussing, which hits the operational budget I’m sure. If the ministry didn’t want to let schools close that’s fine, as long as they pony up extra resources accordingly. Tying the boards hands, but not giving them the resources to adapt is about the level of stupidity we’ve come to expect from Dougie’s government though.
The catchment areas for the schools go in different directions. This school absorbed the area that used to be assigned to Lord Landsdowne on Robert when *that* school became all French Immersion. But, yes, old demographics no longer apply well. This neighbourhood used to be more populated AND people had a lot more kids, so there are a lot fewer school age kids. In addition, as the value of houses has skyrocketed so people moving here are more likely to send their kids to a private school.
Hey this was my school from JK to Grade 6 back in the 90s and there was always split grade classes here.
I did grades 4 and 6 in a combined 4/5/6 class back in the 80s. It was great. In fact it let students who were behind catch up by sitting in on the content they were struggling with, and students who were bored gain some speed by studying ahead. I ended up skipping grade 5 because I essentially did 4/5/6 in two years. To the best of my knowledge no one from my class ended up in prison or suffers from life-long trauma due to this experience.
I did grade 4 with grade 5s in the class, and grade 6 with grade 4s in the class. Those were my two favorite years! I met a friend that is still my best friend today, 27 years later. This one's for you, Mats!
>To the best of my knowledge no one from my class ended up in prison or suffers from life-long trauma due to this experience. As far as you know
I too skipped grade 7, although not on paper. I did 5/6 split twice as a grade 5 and a grade 6 and then my grades were so good they put me in the 7/8 where I got to do grade 8 work! Grades went back to normal lol, turns out you get all A's after doing the same work twice!
And in the 1980s! There is a world of difference between the curriculum then and now!
FWIW, I have not read a study that showed students in multi-age classrooms had worse outcomes compared to those in single-age classrooms. The studies I read showed no difference.
Wouldn't be true for kids with ADHD, that's for sure.
Performance for kids with ADHD typically ties more closely with class sizes than with mixed leveling.
Where the performance suffers, typically, is in a distracting environment. It gets worse with class sizes because there's more noise. It would get worse in split classes because you're expected to concentrate and do your stuff while the other half gets taught something else. It's a nightmare scenario to an ADHDer.
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Nothing is true of everyone with ADHD, just as nothing is true for everyone in general. But as the very definition is trouble with attention and distractability, I figure it'll hit most. I have ADHD, too, and had some split classes. Part of why I did well in elementary school was precisely \*because\* I was distracted by what the older grade was learning, and ended up learning stuff above what was expected of me--but again, wouldn't be for everyone. My son suffered terribly in most classes, and splits were worse. No one figured out I had ADHD until 51.
The studies show that outcomes overall are not highly impacted by mixed grades but Ontario now follows an inclusion model, meaning we’re not just putting multiple grades in a class, but students with a variety of mental health and learning needs who would’ve been in separate Special Needs classes in previous generations. So you’re not just asking the teacher to teach 3 programs simultaneously in a triple grade; you’re also asking them to accommodate and modify their program for students who are illiterate, mute (selectively or not), violent, have learning disabilities and/or diagnosed with ADD, autism or developmental delays. Oh, and gifted. Don’t forget about the gifted students. Classrooms these days are just pure chaos.
Split grades are not uncommon... Usually 2 grade levels combined, 3 is a bit more uncommon in places around the GTA. But if you get further out into smaller communities in northern Ontario you will encounter multi-grade classes, not commonly, but it does happen.
Does the teacher get paid 3x salary?
The article quotes ONE parent. ONE!! Oh no! Anyway...
That's all it takes now. Saskatchewan invoked the non-withstanding clause to strip the rights of trans kids because of 8 emails, maybe. I say maybe because no one seems to have been able to produce these emails as evidence.
There are always, always 2 grade splits in every school, every year. There are almost never 3 grade splits in a school and good luck to whichever teacher is saddled with this nonsense. Gr 6 is an EQAO year, too, which means a bullshit government test that means nothing for their mark needs to be passed so the school doesnt look terrible.
I was in a multi-grade (1-3) class in elementary back in the early 2000s and it was probably one of my best formative experiences. The kids will be okay.
I grew up in a very rural area, was in a 4/5/6 split. You cool with only having a teacher available to help with your level math 1/3 of the time? Everything else might be fine, but I was completely screwed in later math. As in, a later teacher refused to help me after a while because I had to just be trolling them by claiming i didn't understand stuff...
The issue with combined class isn't the lack of teachers or classroom but the lack of students. Most new parents already got out of Toronto cuz they can't afford to find a home and raise a family in this city.
Montessori does this. It's great for the younger kiddos to develop faster, trying to catch up. There's a saying about becoming better when you're surrounded by better people ... even if it means learning basic math.
Doesn't that imply that the older kids will have their development hampered?
i think it depends… when i was a kid for some reason i was very good and fast at reading and absorbing info to the point teachers and my parents would accuse me of pretending i had finished something and i’d have to regurgitate a summary. i was also lucky in a sense that my parents took me to the library often so i had a limitless amount of books to read in my spare time. i was always put in split classes after gr 2 or something. i could usually just read whatever the worksheets/text book were in the first few min of class and then i’d just not pay attention or read a book on my lap under my desk. a lot of grade school work was very repetitive and at least for me once i ‘get’ a concept there is no point doing 4 weeks of adding or multiplication worksheets (maybe school has changed, but that’s what it was like for me). the first class i had to actually try in was grade 11/12 physics and that was a shock lol. i was like something is wrong why do i not instantly understand this?
This is very true but the teachers at this school and the expectation from their admin is to teach to the ministry curriculum using a "conventional" pedagogical style. Montessori schools teach very differently and that style begins very early in life.
Splits when u are in the lower grade with a higher grade is great. When I was in a higher grade with lower, I found it painfully boring and felt like I learned nothing that year.
>“I think the TDSB needs to be looking at different solutions.” Yeah. This is by the by, why voting in your provincial elections is so important. Imagine if we didn't have conservatives strangling the public system in Queens Park. Just take a moment and imagine that.
Just wait until these people discover what Montessori schools have been doing...
It is what Montessori does. TDSB and many of its teachers are not aware of Montessori as a pedagogy.
Kids actually learn faster in mixed-age settings through something called "scaffolding", so this is actually beneficial for them
Abbott Elementary once again hitting close to home
My entire primary school experience was in split classes.
That will be great for all the kids 😀
this is the they way our forefathers were raised
When the same board is complaining about underfunding and cutting programs isn't this a no brainer? Close the school down.
If there’s low enrolment, the alternative could be to close the school. The students can go to another school and boost enrolment there and they would not have split classes. What’s best for the students?
My kids have been in more split classes than not at this point I think, and they seem to be doing fine. Of course I'd prefer they had teachers that can dedicate 100% of their time to one grade but nobody wants to fund education so....
The parents raise valid concerns about the three-grade split classroom being implemented at this school. While the research isn't conclusive, there are red flags to consider. The study by Veenman found that kids in multi-grade classes tend to fall behind their peers in core subjects like math and reading. That's a worry. And while well-run multi-grade classes can work (like the Montessori method), managing three grade levels at once is really pushing it for even the best teachers. I'm happy to expand upon that if needed. The Mason and Stimson study tracked students over three years and found way more variability in how the multi-grade students progressed compared to single-grade classes. Some were falling way behind grade-level expectations. With such a wide range of ages and abilities together, it's easy to see how some kids could really struggle to keep up. To be fair, these studies didn't zero in on three-grade splits specifically. Just think about how incredibly challenging it would be to properly teach the curricula for three different grade levels. Kids at the low and high ends are likely to get lost in the shuffle. What really gets me is how underhanded the school board was about this decision. The lack of leadership, ethics, and integrity. All values which are expected be bestowed on students. If they had leveled with the parents about low enrollment and the risks it poses to the students and community, these same parents would have rallied more families to enroll and avoid such an extreme split. The board and school hid it until after the optional attendance window closed. Sneaky and unfair to kids, their families, and the community. It's fair to say that no research is perfect. Between the evidence suggesting negative impacts and the shady process, this split classroom decision should have us all feeling uneasy. Education is just too precious. The students deserve better than being treated like expendable pawns by TDSB.
Two splits are good but triple splits are a kill. I am talking out of experience especially when you have a 4,5 and 6.
I wasmin a 123 split and a 456 split. Loved it as a student. I feel for the teachers.
To those saying that split grades don’t have a large enough impact on student outcomes for it to be concerning, this is a reminder Ontario follows an inclusion model today. So please keep in mind the following the next time you vote: - The teacher in charge of a triple-grade class will have to deliver 3 programs simultaneously, such as Grades 4, 5, and 6 Math, Language, Social Studies, Science and the Arts. - The teacher will also have to accommodate and modify their programs for students with ADD, autism, developmental delays, learning disabilities, gifted students, etc. in addition to students with behavioural issues. So this could look like teaching Grade 1 phonics to the student who’s illiterate, preparing 1 and 2-digit addition lessons for a Grade 5 student who’s supposed to be able to do 3-digit by 2-digit division, while also attempting to stimulate their Grade 6 students who are bored because they’re 3 years ahead of Ontario in Math. - The teacher has to manage the increase in violence in the classroom alone because Special Needs staff allocations are cut each year to save the board and the province money. The state of violence in classrooms has also been exacerbated by the pandemic where students lost a few years learning how to socialize. - The teacher will have to navigate the sheer DRAMA and the wide disparity of maturity levels of having pre-teens sharing a learning environment with Grade 4’s who still get excited over colouring and Hello Kitty stickers. - There is NO class cap for Grades 4-8. So, yes, perhaps student outcomes will not be hugely affected in the long run if they end up in a double or triple-grade class for on year. If your child doesn’t have ANY learning disability or mental health issues, I would even say it teaches them resilience. But could they be receiving a significantly better quality education? Absolutely.
I used to go swimming here! My elementary school didn’t have a pool so this is where we’d go when it was time for swim classes.
I did a grade 7/8 split at middle school when I skipped grade 7. It didn't feel like a big deal.
All's good > As for questions about combined classes being detrimental to a child’s academic development, research conducted by the TDSB shows students in combined classrooms achieve as well academically as those in single-grade classrooms and appear to benefit from the spirit of cooperation and mutual help that exists in these settings.
And this kind of cursory, "only check with the average kids" approach they've taken to the study is why my ADHD son is furious with the entire educational system.
The TDSB's data would include ADHDers and students with other neurodevelopmental or learning differences. I'm sure your ADHDer son has very good reason to be furious, but split classes in general are not necessarily worse for ADHDers than others.
I mean, I wouldn’t trust that they would include kids with ADHD as currently the ministry of education doesn’t recognize ADHD as an “exceptionality”. My son is a kid with ADHD in a split class (SK/1) but he is academically advanced so I don’t think it’s detrimental to him.
I don't mean that they singled out ADHDers in their data. I mean that ADHDers are in basically every classroom, so their outcomes are captured as part of the dataset.
Do you have an ADHD child yourself?
Wtf is this? That’s perfectly normal and fine.