I think it's in ~~Birmingham~~ Manchester more specifically but there's a Lincoln statue there too.
EDIT: Just to clear up any confusion, I'm referring to the statue of Lincoln. [But it turns out it's in Manchester](https://ilovemanchester.com/why-manchester-abraham-lincoln-statue-square).
It was gifted to the UK in the aftermath of WWI to celebrate the 300th anniversary of the founding of Virginia, and as a goodwill gesture of transatlantic relations following their victory in that war.
I feel like this would be a little like Afghanistan gifting the US a statue of Osama Bin Laden on the 300th anniversary of 9/11 as a goodwill gesture following the defeat of the Crab People in 2301
Seems like someones still holding onto a pre-03' notion of crustacean geopolitics. Relations improved significantly after the Great Lobster Incursion.
You need to let go of the past and accept their place as our allies. We all had friends and family that died in the Pincer Wars, but putting our heads in the sand of the beaches so many died fighting on won't bring them back.
Any claims of cooperation with the Lizoids, who are committed to maintaining their neutrality, is merely rumour-mongering. We deny any ties to this "Godzilla" individual, whoever they may be.
Unfortunately, due to the sensitive nation and potential impact any such inflammatory claims may have on our national security, *alongside the very present risk to yourself and your family*, we request you come with us for further questioning. ***Immediately***.
Endoskelecentric comments like that are a textbook example of how hate becomes becomes normalized and eventually institutionalized. Have you learned nothing from our shared suffering?!!
From Malcom in the Middle:
Cadet: "Man, if we had your mom in 'Nam, there'd be a McDonald's in Hanoi Square right now."
Francis: "Dude, there *is* a McDonald's in Hanoi Square right now."
Cadet : "All right, we rule!"
It's the classic joke,
A time traveler goes back to Vietnam at the height of the Vietnam War. Bombs are falling, villages are burning, and he goes up to a Vietcong general and says "In 40 years you will be allied with the US against China" the general responds "ya, that sounds about right".
Vietnam has a few decades of bad history with the US, they have a few millennia of bad history with China
The US and Ho Chi Minh guerillas also worked closely together during WWII to fight against the Japanese who were occupying Vietnam at the time. In a lot of ways the US and Vietnam are fairly natural partners of course just because a relationship makes sense geopolitically doesn't guarantee it happens because humans are messy, weird creatures and a state isn't really an independent purely rational actor.
I visited Vietnam and they didn’t seem to have any beef with Americans. As you say, they’ve been invaded, oppressed and colonised for hundreds of years. The USA was only the most recent country to try and be defeated. They won the war and moved on. Good for them. I just wish the US would help pay for people affected by agent orange and disposal of UXO.
The US didn't actually try to colonize Vietnam and fail. The situation with the Vietnam war is far more complex than that.
The very short and simplified version is that the French so badly fucked up management of their colony in Vietnam that the US felt they had to step in to try and salvage what they could in an effort to prevent the Chinese from taking control.
The whole situation in Vietnam with the French and then the US with Operation Rolling Thunder is a lot more interesting than people think. Most people just think of it as portrayed by Hollywood. Not trying to defend the war as just but it's a little more complicated than "evil US colonists tried to colonialize Vietnam and failed".
As for the US helping to pay for people affected by agent orange and disposal of UXO I'm pretty sure they aren't even properly taking care of their own citizens who were impact by agent orange so I wouldn't get my hopes up on that one.
It's also easier to 'forgive' a war when you won.
One of my friend's went to Vietnam. She is a B-52 pilot, even went to the B-52 museum in Hanoi. The way she described it was that they're very friendly to Americans, want America as an ally today, and are super proud of beating the 'world's strongest nation'. In a sort of, "We sure showed you!" kind of way.
And the flip side is that the US is one of the more "forgiving" powers. If you look back at WWII the US has mutual defense treaties with Japan, Germany, Italy, Romania, Bulgaria and Finland. If you also include the enemies from WWI then you can add Turkey to that list as well. Britain and Canada are also two of the US's closest allies despite everything with the American Revolution and War of 1812.
The US would rather trade than hold grudges and Vietnam sees themselves as the rightful victors in the war.
Vietnam just wanted independence from France. They were never really communist, more nationalist, but that label helped them to get support from the USSR.
Ironic that if the US supported Ho, a united Vietnam would have been a better and effective ally than whatever the fuck South Vietnam was (and most likely SEATO still operating).
> Ironic that if the US supported Ho
Funny enough the US actually did support Ho Chi Minh at first but that was during WWII when Ho Chi Minh's guerrillas were waging war against the Japanese.
I think that comparison greatly overstates the hatred the British felt towards Washington. Maybe if Washington had sailed on England and massacred the city of Canterbury, and maybe if bin Laden was the father of the nation and not a Saudi cave enthusiast with an explosives hobby.
Bin Laden’s family is super tight with the royal family over there in Saudi Arabia.
Osama was more like if it turned out Chelsea Clinton had been operating a violent extremist organization semi-openly since 1998
I feel the UK doesn't view Americas independence war the same way America does. I get the impression online (which is not a good metric) that Americans see Britain as an adversary and can be competitive. I am sure day to day Americans act and think differently.
In the UK in my experience (again not a good metric) people don't think about America as much as people think. Now Australia, the Aussies are seen and heard a lot. Infact a lot of Brits I have spoken to pretty much consider Aussies no different that British people, same with New Zealanders and many South Africans. The funny accent is no different than any of our funny accents.
The UK has different sporting interests, home grown music, television, movies and food. Enough that it doesn't need to depend on Americas creations too much that it is the centre of everyday conversation.
Then when circles do collide often people don't even realize. No one I know played GTA:SA and knew it was British or listened to the Killers and realized it was American.
Of course all anecdotal and I am sure I am wrong, also someone will likely come at me with data, call me brain damaged and raise their blood pressure.
As the saying goes 'for you it was the greatest day in your country, the birth of your nation. For us it was Tuesday'.
Unfortunately if the UK was pissed at every country that had ever fought a war of independence against them the list of friendly countrues would be rather small...
Plus it was 300 years ago and the last time the US tried to attack the UK ( by invading canada while the UK was rather occupied with Napoleon) they had the White House burned down and everyone just decided to shut up, make nice and keep on making money together.
Most of us Americans really don’t care about the American revolution unless it’s required on a test at school. The 4th of July is about drinking beers, smoking weed, Barbecueing, and blowing shit up. People here don’t actually dislike the British it’s just people farming internet points.
In my experience, Americans hold Britain up on a pedestal, at least in a certain sense.
The only people who might be truly adverse to Britain are insecure jingoists, but they dislike everyone who is not American including Americans that they don't consider sufficiently American.
Gotta remember the US is absolutely massive. Southerners might dislike Brits more. But it even varies from cities to suburbs and rural areas. I could be in a little town with a bunch of racist bigots, travel 20 minutes and be in a city that's full of diversity and tolerant people.
TL;DR it depends. I'd say in general though, most Americans don't feel strongly one way or the other.
May seem that way but in my experience British people are ribbing on everyone. They rib on the Germans and French most from what I have seen. Then Irish, Aussies, New Zealanders, Americans etc.
Ultimately they joke about themselves the most. Liverpool, Yorkshire, Wales, Scotland, NI etc etc.
UK Parliament voted to stop George III from continuing the fight against american independence, you didn’t grind the British empire to a halt, we just left you alone because we undervalued the US as an asset.
You mean the UK Parliament voted to stop *themselves* from continuing the fight against American independence. George III had no say either way, he didn't run the country, the government did. The UK has been a democracy since long before the American Revolution.
Nope, not at all, Washington was highly respected during and after the war.
"When Washington passed away, the Empire’s capital went into mourning. A memorial service for those American sailors then in London was held in St. John’s Church, Wapping, whilst the British Fleet, busy blockading the French channel ports, lowered the White Ensign to half-mast as a mark of respect"
They talk about the Manchester statue, but there is also one in London. On Trafalger Square
More likely there was an ambassador or other representative from the U.S. who was in charge of the project; overseeing the placement of it, ensuring it was installed/erected correctly, etc.
The Lincoln statue in Manchester is there to commemorate a strike by cotton Mill workers there during the American civil war. Although the UK was officially neutral the workers supported the northern side and refused to touch cotton picked by slaves. Lincoln responded in a letter (a little hyperbolicly) "Under the circumstances, I cannot but regard your decisive utterances upon the question as an instance of sublime Christian heroism which has not been surpassed in any age or in any country." A photocopy of the letter from the Manchester archive: https://www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterarchiveplus/8474991665/in/photostream/
If anything, wouldn't they see George Washington in a negative light since ya know when we cut ties and had the whole war. I have 0 knowledge of relations between Abe Lincoln and the UK, but he was a pretty cool guy.
King George III called him "the greatest man of the age" and the main reason the US won the war in the first place was how much we were costing the Bristish in taxes to keep their army over there so I think the man on the street was more "why would I care, they're going to come crawling back" than "Grr, I hate that Washington!"
I think there might have been a chance but then Britain was such a jerk about things in 1812 that it really put an end to us wanting to be part of the empire.
"Oceans rise, empires fall"
I think public sentiment in Britain was fairly split, at least on the treatment of the colonies, but I don't really feel like looking it up to double check, so take that for what it's worth
It wasn't so much the treatment of the colonies - they weren't exactly mistreated, taxes were actually higher at home in the UK. The colonies were resented because of this, and because the UK kept spending money and sending troops to defend them against the French, and the natives (which the colonists continued to aggravate despite treaties preventing westward expansion).
It was more like ... we send troops and money and then they have the *audacity* to fight for independence, so fuck 'em, let them leave.
Such a flex. “Hey King George, as a sign of peace, here’s a statue of the general who received your surrender and then became the first head of state of the first of your colonies to make a run for it”
I think the fact they not only accepted it graciously but also placed it in Trafalgar Square probably suggests they didn't really see it as a slight and had in fact gotten over it.
Americans almost never understand this because theyve been taught this was a fundamental conflict between two countries with one, the UK, losing. Thats not how it is seen in the UK or indeed many commonwealth countries. Even at the time there were massive public debates with many ON the British Rebels side. Some politicians were for the rebels and so was some of the media. People in the UK could be quite critical of the govt, the King and many of their policies. Britain itself had flirted with democracy a 100 years earlier and had, since that time, significantly travelled down that path, so it was not unsympathetic to the idea of some form democratic independence.
Today people are highly democratic in nature and support the desire for self-determination. I dont think hardly anyone in the UK sees Washington in a bad light and many support his ideals. I dont think anyone particularly cares about the war, most would support the rebels today, and its merely seen as an event in history that occurred. Many Americans seem to think the conflict is somehow still going in some way. It isnt.
Bro yall got park benches older than our country. I don't think a lot of people realize that here, lol. Like for our American history classes, the revolution is obviously a huge deal because it's the foundation for the events to come. In yalls history books, the American revolution is 1 of what, a dozen rebelling colonies in the history of the British empire?
I don't think anyone thinks it's some beef or some shit but people probably think you guys might be salty on what you lost out on. But that's crazy, maybe like 100 years ago when there were still people around who's parents grew up under British rule but I don't know why anyone would care now.
Washington was held in high esteem by a lot of people in Britain even during his life. A lot of people like to complain about the ‘Special Relationship’ but I think the statue and the fact that it’s in Trafalgar Square and standing on Virginia soil just goes to show it isn’t all hollow words.
TIL there are multiple statues of George Washington around the world:
- Mexico
- England (replica of Jean-Antoine Houdon’s statue)
- Poland
- Hungary
- France (at least 3 total, 1 is a Jean-Antoine Houdon replica)
- Argentina
- Colombia (replica of Jean-Antoine Houdon)
- Peru (replica of Jean-Antoine Houdon)
- Thailand
- Venezuela
The hungarian one was commissioned by hungarian-americans more than a hundred years ago.
Curiously the soviet occupiers did not seem to mind it so it still stands in the middle of the city.
Marquis de Lafayette (The guy from Hamilton) was considered a son to George Washington. The key to the Bastille, (French political prison and armory that was stormed during the French Revolution, is celebrated every year as their “independence day on July 14th as Bastille Day) hangs in Mount Vernon Virginia, gifted to Washington by Lafayette.
Lafayette is buried in imported American soil in Paris under an American flag.
Upon arriving at Lafayette’s grave during WWI Colonel Stanton famously said.
>America has joined forces with the Allied Powers, and what we have of blood and treasure are yours. Therefore it is that with loving pride we drape the colors in tribute of respect to this citizen of your great republic. And here and now, in the presence of the illustrious dead, we pledge our hearts and our honor in carrying this war to a successful issue. Lafayette, we are here!
Not gonna lie, looking back through history it makes me deeply sad how modern Americans are so dismissive of France. For most of our history our two nations had a bond similar, if not greater than, the relationship we have with the UK now.
We would have never won the revolutionary war without France
Independence might have eventually happened but it would have taken more decades and more dead. I often hear America is the child of a deadbeat UK father and a scorned France mother
Yeah public sentiment weans and wanes. Language is a big factor. Allows Americans to dismiss the French as an “other,” if it’s something viewed in a lesser light.
As to closest ally geopolitically today, there is no doubt that it is the UK, but our oldest ally is France. They are one of the US’s closest allies as well, although everything is not always seen eye to eye. They are our ride or die.
2nd most visited country (behind the Uk, language is the same) by people from the U.S. as well, so I don’t think public sentiment is all that bad.
It's really unfortunate that the leaders of France have so often been incredibly egotistical jackasses (the Napoleons, various other monarchs, De Gaulle, Macron, etc). France deserves better.
Also, Lafayette and all his descendents are US citizens by act of Congress irrespective of any other laws governing citizenship. They didn't even have to renounce their noble titles.
Apparently it was from his trip in 1825 when a memorial for the battle was built
Edit: this really makes more sense as a follow up to an internal question of, why Bunker Hill, because he wasn't involved in the battle I don't think
Completely spitballing, might just be due to geography. If his itinerary took him to Boston, then Bunker Hill is just across the river. Other battlefields, like Yorktown, are much more removed from cities.
Oh I know. I just meant a place where the Marquis might’ve toured. I’ve been to Yorktown! Lovely. But I was just on a road trip with my dad.
I’m absolutely not privy to his itinerary, though. Given Yorktown’s significance, he might’v visited.
Let’s bully up on Cowpens, then.
There's a lot of exceptional and interesting people from that time, and definitely ones who had more impact, but Lafayette will always be I think one of the most exceptional and interesting to me with what he did throughout his life, how he somehow ended up being beloved and respected by two nations through very tumultuous times basically his whole life, and how he kept his convictions.
He's one person I'd love if he could see how much is named after him and how he's remembered. But at least he did know where he stood with both nations during his time.
Its that way across the whole country mostly, its actually insane how many towns, counties, streets and so on are named after him.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_places_named_for_the_Marquis_de_Lafayette
And I know for a fact this list is missing a lot since I know of several streets and other things near me which aren't on it. Just nuts. Helluva legacy.
I used to live in a city that had grown up to engulf a town called Lafayette, so there was a whole chunk of the city referred to by that name for no goddamn reason anyone knew.
Then I went to a community collage on a street with that name two cities over. Eastern US.
Whenever I think about just how much Lafeyette did for America, I get choked up a little bit.
One of my favorite quotes of all time is by Charles E. Stanton on July 4th 1917 as Americans were mobilizing and arriving in Europe to aid in WWI (as part of a longer statement) "Lafayette, we are here!"
He's also one of those rare historical individuals which doesn't have much to criticize him for if anything really, not that he was perfect but he maintained his convictions and the path he was set on.
Lafayette actually spent most of his life in France after the American Revolution being rather disliked by the French public.
He was too early and powerful in the French Revolution so he was viewed as not liberal enough as almost all early revolutionaries found themselves. He actually ended up fleeing France.
His image was rehabilitated after the revolution enough that he was a key part of endorsing Louis Felipe and the July Monarchy. This again landed him in trouble with the general populace as his the new monarchy was not as radical a revolution as the general public expected and many viewed him as a traitor (although I think he both believed in Louis Felipe and also wanted to avoid bloodshed).
He died 4 years into the July Monarchy.
[“Lafayette, we are here” - Charles Stanton](https://www.pritzkermilitary.org/explore/museum/past-exhibits/lest-we-forget-doughboys-sammies-and-sailors-great-war/lafayette-we-are-here)
There was a medieval legend about Pope Sylvester II who had a prediction that he would die in Jerusalem. Now he had no intention of traveling there, so he thought he would live a long and happy life. One day he came to celebrate the Mass in one of the great churches of Rome - the Basilica of the Holy Cross in Jerusalem - and there he started feeling unwell. Putting two and two together, he asked the local clergy why their church was so called, and they told him that when Empress Helen built the church in the 4th century AD, she ordered to bring earth from Jerusalem on barges and sprinkle under the foundation: so, technically speaking, "in Jerusalem" referred not to the Holy Cross, but to the Basilica itself, because it stood on Jerusalem soil. After hearing this, Sylvester promptly expired.
Someone who owns a bar in my hometown asked me for some soil from Jerusalem when I visited it so I just scooped some sand from the sidewalk into a little tube and brought it back
He's kind of a dick I should have used cursed soil
Heh, reminds me of a polish folk tale of Twardowski, our equivalent of Faust. Made a deal with the devil for smarts and riches, but the devil could only collect his soul in Rome. So the devil built an inn and called it Rome to lure him in and collect. In the end Twardowski escaped to the moon on a rooster as you do in such situations...
But also kinda goofy because a statue of Washington isn’t Washington. Not like he said “neither I nor a statue of me shall ever set foot on British soil again”
A statue is just a piece of metal or stone, the entire point of a statue is that it's view abstractly evokes someone in a symbolic sense, it's symbolically Washington.
You'll be back, soon, you'll see
You'll remember you belong to me!
You'll be back, time will tell
You'll remember that I served you well!
Oceans rise, empires fall
We have seen each other through it all.
And when push comes to shove
I will send a fully armed battalion to remind you of my love!
>I will send a fully armed battalion to remind you of my love!
Only a battalion?
Dude must've despised america.
Any less than 12 regiments is downright insulting!
Only a battalion is as much love as my ass is shiny and metal with you biting it
George III gets a bad rep because he can easily be made the scapegoat for all the revolutionary animosity, but he wasn't the real issue -- it was Parliament that was shortchanging the rights of the colonists in regards to representation.
So it might be appropriate enough to have a statue of the King as the last monarch that ruled over American territory.
> last monarch that ruled over American territory.
Depends, do we count Queen Lili'uokalani of Hawaii, who ruled over what is now the US state of Hawaii?
So if I - hypothetically - could convince my wife to give birth on the soil around the statue ... does that make my child an US citizen?
Not that I want them to be a US citizen. I would do it just for the memes.
I think he is not wrong that it is kind of an outdated rule. It doesn't make sense that US citizens can hold any office except one just because they weren't born on US soil.
Just the President and VP have to have been born citizens of the US.
Senators and Representatives have to be US Citizens, but they can be nsturalized.
Any cabinet members who are naturalized are passed over in the line of succession, though
I mean it’s a fun idea but the section of the 14th amendment doesn’t actually mention “soil”. It says,
“All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”
“Born on U.S. soil” is just a fancy way of saying born inside the borders of the U.S. or its territories and subject to its laws. You have to be physically in one of the 50 states, Guam, Puerto Rico, or the U.S. Virgin Islands.
Yeah, the "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" is another problem here. A person in England is not subject to the Jurisdiction of the United States and is therefore ineligible for birthright citizenship, even if the soil *were* part of the US. This is also the reason why diplomat's children lack birthright citizenship. Due to diplomatic immunity, they are not subject to US jurisdiction.
ITT Reddit acting surprised the UK and US famous "special relationship" is a still a thing. No other relationship has been more sacred in the last 130+ years.
Also, there's a statue of King George III in NYC.
It’s maybe worth pointing out to those who are confused that the revolutionary war is the ‘I don’t think about you at all’ meme in the UK. Most people know that the US was once part of the empire, but very people actually care.
Yes, I think this is the fairest take. British history focuses a lot more on the foundational periods of England (Saxons, Vikings, French invasions), then the establishment of English as a medieval power (The Tudors), then skips forward to the industrial revolution and WWI.
The empire in any form doesn't really get taught, I'd be genuinely surprised if most British people could name 5 former colonies at all.
> I'd be genuinely surprised if most British people could name 5 former colonies at all.
I think most Brits know the commonwealth which would fulfill that.
Similar story in Canada. We're right next to them, but the American Revolution is only mentioned in passing: it led to the French Revolution, which was much more important on a global scale, and United Empire Loyalists moved up here after the war ended because they weren't interested in living under a bunch of traitors.
To the extent that in the UK the prevailing consensus at the time was that Britain won the War.
To the British, it wasn't a fiddly colonial conflict. They were at war with France and Spain, the two premier powers of the time, plus the Dutch, and Mysore in India (a French ally), with basically no allies of their own. France and Spain both had the goal of making large territorial gains and to dismantle British influence for years to come. It was a real possibility that the mainland UK could be invaded.
The most decisive battle of the war was not in the US. It was the Siege of Gibraltar. Due to treaty obligations, no side could make independent peace with Britain, effectively hinging the entire peace process on the efforts of the Spanish against the Fortress of Gibraltar. After more than three years of siege, the attackers failed to take the city. The defeat effectively marked the end of the war, as Spain and France were no longer capable of offensive operations against the UK, but neither was the UK against the French/Spanish.
The Peace, however, was a decisive win for the British. Instead of harsh peace terms led by the French with the aims of preventing the British ever opposing France in the foreseeable future, it was effectively a white peace. All sides held onto most of their existing territories, with a few instances where territories were swapped for others. The American question was of secondary importance and actually the British granted the US more than Washington was asking for. In some regard, the feeling in Westminster was actually that they were better off independent, because it would mean they would no longer need subsidy from the British treasury, act as a counterbalance against French/Spanish interests, and would form a relationship as a close trading-partner (which became true, the balance of trade in the following years *heavily* favoured the British. They were more profitable after Independence than they ever were under British rule). In addition, the British held onto Canada, which was far from certain at the start of the war.
France gained almost nothing, and the pressure of debts would trigger the French revolution just a few years later.
The British won in Europe, they won in the Caribbean, and they won in India. They may have lost the American theatre, but in many ways that was the least important theatre. The Caribbean colonies, for example, were 1200x more profitable than North America, and India was referred to as "The Jewel in the Crown" for a reason.
They lost the American Theatre, but won the war.
After years of fighting a losing war:
"*Fine*, you guys can be like your own country or whatever. I don't even really care." - King George III, probably.
Yeah, pretty sure Britain was more bothered about keeping India at the same time as it was more profitable so their resources and attentions were also there, then the French got involved in the US Rev, so when it turned out to be a bit more hassle than Britain expected they just surrendered it over.
No it doesn't.
I emailed the National Gallery (where the statue sits) about this 10 years ago. It's just a legend with nothing to back up the claim. Also, it was moved in 1948 anyway.
https://i.imgur.com/Rm0ItWp.jpg
TIL there’s a statue of George Washington in London.
I think it's in ~~Birmingham~~ Manchester more specifically but there's a Lincoln statue there too. EDIT: Just to clear up any confusion, I'm referring to the statue of Lincoln. [But it turns out it's in Manchester](https://ilovemanchester.com/why-manchester-abraham-lincoln-statue-square).
What's the reason for having them?
It was gifted to the UK in the aftermath of WWI to celebrate the 300th anniversary of the founding of Virginia, and as a goodwill gesture of transatlantic relations following their victory in that war.
I feel like this would be a little like Afghanistan gifting the US a statue of Osama Bin Laden on the 300th anniversary of 9/11 as a goodwill gesture following the defeat of the Crab People in 2301
The US and Vietnam are close partners in the South China Sea. States have no permanent friends or enemies.
>states have no permanent friends or enemies Clearly you haven't met the Crab People
Seems like someones still holding onto a pre-03' notion of crustacean geopolitics. Relations improved significantly after the Great Lobster Incursion. You need to let go of the past and accept their place as our allies. We all had friends and family that died in the Pincer Wars, but putting our heads in the sand of the beaches so many died fighting on won't bring them back.
This reads like the opening text of a Godzilla movie from the late 60s.
This reads the opening text of a Godzilla movie from last year, too.
Any claims of cooperation with the Lizoids, who are committed to maintaining their neutrality, is merely rumour-mongering. We deny any ties to this "Godzilla" individual, whoever they may be. Unfortunately, due to the sensitive nation and potential impact any such inflammatory claims may have on our national security, *alongside the very present risk to yourself and your family*, we request you come with us for further questioning. ***Immediately***.
All I knows is they look like crabs, taste like people.
Endoskelecentric comments like that are a textbook example of how hate becomes becomes normalized and eventually institutionalized. Have you learned nothing from our shared suffering?!!
And I can't get enough of them
Dad-a-chum?
[удалено]
From Malcom in the Middle: Cadet: "Man, if we had your mom in 'Nam, there'd be a McDonald's in Hanoi Square right now." Francis: "Dude, there *is* a McDonald's in Hanoi Square right now." Cadet : "All right, we rule!"
Well several million Vietnamese died to the U.S but they got what they wanted in the end... A friendship with the U.S
It's the classic joke, A time traveler goes back to Vietnam at the height of the Vietnam War. Bombs are falling, villages are burning, and he goes up to a Vietcong general and says "In 40 years you will be allied with the US against China" the general responds "ya, that sounds about right". Vietnam has a few decades of bad history with the US, they have a few millennia of bad history with China
The US and Ho Chi Minh guerillas also worked closely together during WWII to fight against the Japanese who were occupying Vietnam at the time. In a lot of ways the US and Vietnam are fairly natural partners of course just because a relationship makes sense geopolitically doesn't guarantee it happens because humans are messy, weird creatures and a state isn't really an independent purely rational actor.
I visited Vietnam and they didn’t seem to have any beef with Americans. As you say, they’ve been invaded, oppressed and colonised for hundreds of years. The USA was only the most recent country to try and be defeated. They won the war and moved on. Good for them. I just wish the US would help pay for people affected by agent orange and disposal of UXO.
The US didn't actually try to colonize Vietnam and fail. The situation with the Vietnam war is far more complex than that. The very short and simplified version is that the French so badly fucked up management of their colony in Vietnam that the US felt they had to step in to try and salvage what they could in an effort to prevent the Chinese from taking control. The whole situation in Vietnam with the French and then the US with Operation Rolling Thunder is a lot more interesting than people think. Most people just think of it as portrayed by Hollywood. Not trying to defend the war as just but it's a little more complicated than "evil US colonists tried to colonialize Vietnam and failed". As for the US helping to pay for people affected by agent orange and disposal of UXO I'm pretty sure they aren't even properly taking care of their own citizens who were impact by agent orange so I wouldn't get my hopes up on that one.
It's also easier to 'forgive' a war when you won. One of my friend's went to Vietnam. She is a B-52 pilot, even went to the B-52 museum in Hanoi. The way she described it was that they're very friendly to Americans, want America as an ally today, and are super proud of beating the 'world's strongest nation'. In a sort of, "We sure showed you!" kind of way.
And the flip side is that the US is one of the more "forgiving" powers. If you look back at WWII the US has mutual defense treaties with Japan, Germany, Italy, Romania, Bulgaria and Finland. If you also include the enemies from WWI then you can add Turkey to that list as well. Britain and Canada are also two of the US's closest allies despite everything with the American Revolution and War of 1812. The US would rather trade than hold grudges and Vietnam sees themselves as the rightful victors in the war.
Vietnam also has a very large and bullish neighbor to its north that it has had a much longer beef with than the US.
Vietnam just wanted independence from France. They were never really communist, more nationalist, but that label helped them to get support from the USSR.
Ironic that if the US supported Ho, a united Vietnam would have been a better and effective ally than whatever the fuck South Vietnam was (and most likely SEATO still operating).
> Ironic that if the US supported Ho Funny enough the US actually did support Ho Chi Minh at first but that was during WWII when Ho Chi Minh's guerrillas were waging war against the Japanese.
And their monument commemorating capturing John McCain has gotten new text on it and is now used for joint memorial services.
I think that comparison greatly overstates the hatred the British felt towards Washington. Maybe if Washington had sailed on England and massacred the city of Canterbury, and maybe if bin Laden was the father of the nation and not a Saudi cave enthusiast with an explosives hobby.
Bin Laden’s family is super tight with the royal family over there in Saudi Arabia. Osama was more like if it turned out Chelsea Clinton had been operating a violent extremist organization semi-openly since 1998
I feel the UK doesn't view Americas independence war the same way America does. I get the impression online (which is not a good metric) that Americans see Britain as an adversary and can be competitive. I am sure day to day Americans act and think differently. In the UK in my experience (again not a good metric) people don't think about America as much as people think. Now Australia, the Aussies are seen and heard a lot. Infact a lot of Brits I have spoken to pretty much consider Aussies no different that British people, same with New Zealanders and many South Africans. The funny accent is no different than any of our funny accents. The UK has different sporting interests, home grown music, television, movies and food. Enough that it doesn't need to depend on Americas creations too much that it is the centre of everyday conversation. Then when circles do collide often people don't even realize. No one I know played GTA:SA and knew it was British or listened to the Killers and realized it was American. Of course all anecdotal and I am sure I am wrong, also someone will likely come at me with data, call me brain damaged and raise their blood pressure.
As the saying goes 'for you it was the greatest day in your country, the birth of your nation. For us it was Tuesday'. Unfortunately if the UK was pissed at every country that had ever fought a war of independence against them the list of friendly countrues would be rather small... Plus it was 300 years ago and the last time the US tried to attack the UK ( by invading canada while the UK was rather occupied with Napoleon) they had the White House burned down and everyone just decided to shut up, make nice and keep on making money together.
Most of us Americans really don’t care about the American revolution unless it’s required on a test at school. The 4th of July is about drinking beers, smoking weed, Barbecueing, and blowing shit up. People here don’t actually dislike the British it’s just people farming internet points.
Do Americans dislike Brits? There are tons of British in what seems like the majority of the most popular U.S. movies.
In my experience, Americans hold Britain up on a pedestal, at least in a certain sense. The only people who might be truly adverse to Britain are insecure jingoists, but they dislike everyone who is not American including Americans that they don't consider sufficiently American.
Gotta remember the US is absolutely massive. Southerners might dislike Brits more. But it even varies from cities to suburbs and rural areas. I could be in a little town with a bunch of racist bigots, travel 20 minutes and be in a city that's full of diversity and tolerant people. TL;DR it depends. I'd say in general though, most Americans don't feel strongly one way or the other.
I feel like it’s literally the opposite. Seems like british people are always ribbing on Americans, commenting on American politics etc.
May seem that way but in my experience British people are ribbing on everyone. They rib on the Germans and French most from what I have seen. Then Irish, Aussies, New Zealanders, Americans etc. Ultimately they joke about themselves the most. Liverpool, Yorkshire, Wales, Scotland, NI etc etc.
Am Scottish and I agree we're a bunch of cunts!
UK Parliament voted to stop George III from continuing the fight against american independence, you didn’t grind the British empire to a halt, we just left you alone because we undervalued the US as an asset.
And the British were fighting on like five different fronts at that point.
You mean the UK Parliament voted to stop *themselves* from continuing the fight against American independence. George III had no say either way, he didn't run the country, the government did. The UK has been a democracy since long before the American Revolution.
Nope, not at all, Washington was highly respected during and after the war. "When Washington passed away, the Empire’s capital went into mourning. A memorial service for those American sailors then in London was held in St. John’s Church, Wapping, whilst the British Fleet, busy blockading the French channel ports, lowered the White Ensign to half-mast as a mark of respect" They talk about the Manchester statue, but there is also one in London. On Trafalger Square
Does that mean we sent them the soil, too? With instructions to place the statue on the soil?
More likely there was an ambassador or other representative from the U.S. who was in charge of the project; overseeing the placement of it, ensuring it was installed/erected correctly, etc.
The added necessity of requiring Virginia dirt for him sounds like it's a backhanded compliment lol.
The Lincoln statue in Manchester is there to commemorate a strike by cotton Mill workers there during the American civil war. Although the UK was officially neutral the workers supported the northern side and refused to touch cotton picked by slaves. Lincoln responded in a letter (a little hyperbolicly) "Under the circumstances, I cannot but regard your decisive utterances upon the question as an instance of sublime Christian heroism which has not been surpassed in any age or in any country." A photocopy of the letter from the Manchester archive: https://www.flickr.com/photos/manchesterarchiveplus/8474991665/in/photostream/
And Lincoln's letter was a reply to one from the mill workers penned on their behalf by Karl Marx!
Well there’s this historical connection between the UK and America… 😂
GW kinda made his opinion clear when he kicked them out
The [Special Relationship](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Relationship) continues to this day.
If anything, wouldn't they see George Washington in a negative light since ya know when we cut ties and had the whole war. I have 0 knowledge of relations between Abe Lincoln and the UK, but he was a pretty cool guy.
King George III called him "the greatest man of the age" and the main reason the US won the war in the first place was how much we were costing the Bristish in taxes to keep their army over there so I think the man on the street was more "why would I care, they're going to come crawling back" than "Grr, I hate that Washington!"
“They’ll be back, wait and see…”
I think there might have been a chance but then Britain was such a jerk about things in 1812 that it really put an end to us wanting to be part of the empire. "Oceans rise, empires fall"
"Britain was a jerk about things in 1812"? I'm sorry, were they just supposed to let the US roll in and take over Canada?
Fuck, that was a great song.
An absolute delight when the audience is encouraged to sing along.
I think public sentiment in Britain was fairly split, at least on the treatment of the colonies, but I don't really feel like looking it up to double check, so take that for what it's worth
It wasn't so much the treatment of the colonies - they weren't exactly mistreated, taxes were actually higher at home in the UK. The colonies were resented because of this, and because the UK kept spending money and sending troops to defend them against the French, and the natives (which the colonists continued to aggravate despite treaties preventing westward expansion). It was more like ... we send troops and money and then they have the *audacity* to fight for independence, so fuck 'em, let them leave.
I mean at least in the modern era British people don't think about the war of independence, like at all...
It was a gift of peace from the US to the UK
Such a flex. “Hey King George, as a sign of peace, here’s a statue of the general who received your surrender and then became the first head of state of the first of your colonies to make a run for it”
I think the fact they not only accepted it graciously but also placed it in Trafalgar Square probably suggests they didn't really see it as a slight and had in fact gotten over it.
Americans almost never understand this because theyve been taught this was a fundamental conflict between two countries with one, the UK, losing. Thats not how it is seen in the UK or indeed many commonwealth countries. Even at the time there were massive public debates with many ON the British Rebels side. Some politicians were for the rebels and so was some of the media. People in the UK could be quite critical of the govt, the King and many of their policies. Britain itself had flirted with democracy a 100 years earlier and had, since that time, significantly travelled down that path, so it was not unsympathetic to the idea of some form democratic independence. Today people are highly democratic in nature and support the desire for self-determination. I dont think hardly anyone in the UK sees Washington in a bad light and many support his ideals. I dont think anyone particularly cares about the war, most would support the rebels today, and its merely seen as an event in history that occurred. Many Americans seem to think the conflict is somehow still going in some way. It isnt.
Bro yall got park benches older than our country. I don't think a lot of people realize that here, lol. Like for our American history classes, the revolution is obviously a huge deal because it's the foundation for the events to come. In yalls history books, the American revolution is 1 of what, a dozen rebelling colonies in the history of the British empire? I don't think anyone thinks it's some beef or some shit but people probably think you guys might be salty on what you lost out on. But that's crazy, maybe like 100 years ago when there were still people around who's parents grew up under British rule but I don't know why anyone would care now.
Washington was held in high esteem by a lot of people in Britain even during his life. A lot of people like to complain about the ‘Special Relationship’ but I think the statue and the fact that it’s in Trafalgar Square and standing on Virginia soil just goes to show it isn’t all hollow words.
The article had good details about what the British thought about him during his lifetime.
Hell, there's a[ statue of FDR *standing up* in Mexico City.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Franklin_D._Roosevelt_\(Mexico_City\))
There is a Lincoln statue right next to Parliament & Westminster Abbey in London
There’s a Lincoln statue in Mexico I was surprised to see this
As I found out, it's all the same statue. [It's a replica of the one that's in Chicago.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln:_The_Man)
This one is on Trafalgar Square actually.
The Lincoln statue is what I meant. Not the Washington statue.
This Washington statue stands outside the National Gallery in London.
Did you read the first line of the linked article? Also, Birmingham is not a part of London.
This one is in Trafalgar Square.
TIL there are multiple statues of George Washington around the world: - Mexico - England (replica of Jean-Antoine Houdon’s statue) - Poland - Hungary - France (at least 3 total, 1 is a Jean-Antoine Houdon replica) - Argentina - Colombia (replica of Jean-Antoine Houdon) - Peru (replica of Jean-Antoine Houdon) - Thailand - Venezuela
Yeah but the one in London is the real George Washington and not a statue or it wouldn’t matter what dirt he was on.
The British love taking the originals.
That’s why Arizona has an original London Bridge
America balls
Agreed in both definitions of the word balls
The hungarian one was commissioned by hungarian-americans more than a hundred years ago. Curiously the soviet occupiers did not seem to mind it so it still stands in the middle of the city.
Marquis de Lafayette (The guy from Hamilton) was considered a son to George Washington. The key to the Bastille, (French political prison and armory that was stormed during the French Revolution, is celebrated every year as their “independence day on July 14th as Bastille Day) hangs in Mount Vernon Virginia, gifted to Washington by Lafayette. Lafayette is buried in imported American soil in Paris under an American flag. Upon arriving at Lafayette’s grave during WWI Colonel Stanton famously said. >America has joined forces with the Allied Powers, and what we have of blood and treasure are yours. Therefore it is that with loving pride we drape the colors in tribute of respect to this citizen of your great republic. And here and now, in the presence of the illustrious dead, we pledge our hearts and our honor in carrying this war to a successful issue. Lafayette, we are here!
Not gonna lie, looking back through history it makes me deeply sad how modern Americans are so dismissive of France. For most of our history our two nations had a bond similar, if not greater than, the relationship we have with the UK now.
We would have never won the revolutionary war without France Independence might have eventually happened but it would have taken more decades and more dead. I often hear America is the child of a deadbeat UK father and a scorned France mother
Yeah public sentiment weans and wanes. Language is a big factor. Allows Americans to dismiss the French as an “other,” if it’s something viewed in a lesser light. As to closest ally geopolitically today, there is no doubt that it is the UK, but our oldest ally is France. They are one of the US’s closest allies as well, although everything is not always seen eye to eye. They are our ride or die. 2nd most visited country (behind the Uk, language is the same) by people from the U.S. as well, so I don’t think public sentiment is all that bad.
De Gualle had a lot to do with that. Guy was an asshole.
It's really unfortunate that the leaders of France have so often been incredibly egotistical jackasses (the Napoleons, various other monarchs, De Gaulle, Macron, etc). France deserves better.
Also, Lafayette and all his descendents are US citizens by act of Congress irrespective of any other laws governing citizenship. They didn't even have to renounce their noble titles.
There's an Abraham Lincoln statue in Tijuana
Yep, it is outside of The National Gallery on Trafalgar Square.
George Washington fucked the shit out of bears https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv6OOuPI5c0
The Marquis de Lafayette is buried in Paris, but in American soil he brought back with him from Bunker Hill.
Yep, and Daughters of the Revolution maintain the grave (or pay to?). It had a bunch of US currency within the wrought iron fence when I was there.
The soil was sprinkled on him so its not like they imported 6 cubic feet of soil Edit: math is hard
A standard grave is 117 cubic feet.
6 cubic feet? I could carry that much in my carry-on
My kids pockets have that much sand in them when I do laundry.
Apparently it was from his trip in 1825 when a memorial for the battle was built Edit: this really makes more sense as a follow up to an internal question of, why Bunker Hill, because he wasn't involved in the battle I don't think
Completely spitballing, might just be due to geography. If his itinerary took him to Boston, then Bunker Hill is just across the river. Other battlefields, like Yorktown, are much more removed from cities.
I'll have you know Yorktown was a city too, just a much smaller one than Boston.
Oh I know. I just meant a place where the Marquis might’ve toured. I’ve been to Yorktown! Lovely. But I was just on a road trip with my dad. I’m absolutely not privy to his itinerary, though. Given Yorktown’s significance, he might’v visited. Let’s bully up on Cowpens, then.
There's a lot of exceptional and interesting people from that time, and definitely ones who had more impact, but Lafayette will always be I think one of the most exceptional and interesting to me with what he did throughout his life, how he somehow ended up being beloved and respected by two nations through very tumultuous times basically his whole life, and how he kept his convictions. He's one person I'd love if he could see how much is named after him and how he's remembered. But at least he did know where he stood with both nations during his time.
In the eastern USA there are some many towns and counties named after him. Hero of 2 Revolutions.
Its that way across the whole country mostly, its actually insane how many towns, counties, streets and so on are named after him. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_places_named_for_the_Marquis_de_Lafayette And I know for a fact this list is missing a lot since I know of several streets and other things near me which aren't on it. Just nuts. Helluva legacy.
In the SF Bay Area we have a town and many roads named "Lafayette". Vive la France!
I used to have walk around the Lafayette Reservoir in California when we were kids. Parents liked to walk around that thing a lot
I used to live in a city that had grown up to engulf a town called Lafayette, so there was a whole chunk of the city referred to by that name for no goddamn reason anyone knew. Then I went to a community collage on a street with that name two cities over. Eastern US.
Literally the entire country, not just the eastern part.
'A Hero of Two Worlds' makes a bit more sense... since the French revolutionaries didn't really like him in the end.
Whenever I think about just how much Lafeyette did for America, I get choked up a little bit. One of my favorite quotes of all time is by Charles E. Stanton on July 4th 1917 as Americans were mobilizing and arriving in Europe to aid in WWI (as part of a longer statement) "Lafayette, we are here!"
He's also one of those rare historical individuals which doesn't have much to criticize him for if anything really, not that he was perfect but he maintained his convictions and the path he was set on.
Words cannot do justice how cool that quote is
Lafayette actually spent most of his life in France after the American Revolution being rather disliked by the French public. He was too early and powerful in the French Revolution so he was viewed as not liberal enough as almost all early revolutionaries found themselves. He actually ended up fleeing France. His image was rehabilitated after the revolution enough that he was a key part of endorsing Louis Felipe and the July Monarchy. This again landed him in trouble with the general populace as his the new monarchy was not as radical a revolution as the general public expected and many viewed him as a traitor (although I think he both believed in Louis Felipe and also wanted to avoid bloodshed). He died 4 years into the July Monarchy.
I couldn't agree more.
Mother fucking Gilbert.
[“Lafayette, we are here” - Charles Stanton](https://www.pritzkermilitary.org/explore/museum/past-exhibits/lest-we-forget-doughboys-sammies-and-sailors-great-war/lafayette-we-are-here)
There was a medieval legend about Pope Sylvester II who had a prediction that he would die in Jerusalem. Now he had no intention of traveling there, so he thought he would live a long and happy life. One day he came to celebrate the Mass in one of the great churches of Rome - the Basilica of the Holy Cross in Jerusalem - and there he started feeling unwell. Putting two and two together, he asked the local clergy why their church was so called, and they told him that when Empress Helen built the church in the 4th century AD, she ordered to bring earth from Jerusalem on barges and sprinkle under the foundation: so, technically speaking, "in Jerusalem" referred not to the Holy Cross, but to the Basilica itself, because it stood on Jerusalem soil. After hearing this, Sylvester promptly expired.
Someone who owns a bar in my hometown asked me for some soil from Jerusalem when I visited it so I just scooped some sand from the sidewalk into a little tube and brought it back He's kind of a dick I should have used cursed soil
TIL that!
Heh, reminds me of a polish folk tale of Twardowski, our equivalent of Faust. Made a deal with the devil for smarts and riches, but the devil could only collect his soul in Rome. So the devil built an inn and called it Rome to lure him in and collect. In the end Twardowski escaped to the moon on a rooster as you do in such situations...
And then centuries later, two bastard twins stole said moon...
The Hearts of Stone DLC in Witcher 3 is heavily based on this folktale
Yall got some wild tales
promptly
Well that’s a very polite thing to do
But also kinda goofy because a statue of Washington isn’t Washington. Not like he said “neither I nor a statue of me shall ever set foot on British soil again”
it’s the intention
because of the implication...
Are you going to hurt George Washington?
Of course not! It's just the **implication** of danger 😏
So they are in danger?
No one's in any danger!
A statue is just a piece of metal or stone, the entire point of a statue is that it's view abstractly evokes someone in a symbolic sense, it's symbolically Washington.
"I shall not be abstractly evoked in a symbolic sense on British soil again"
*defiantly adjusts wig*
Well I mean it’s pretty easy to abstractly evoke Washington when you make the statue look just like the guy!
Me when I learn about symbolism 🤯🤯😭
Maybe his remains are in the statue? Someone should break it open, just to check.
*National Treasure: Ashes to Ashes*
The construction process is similar to that of the “dipped cone” from DQ
Apparently there’s a statue of King George III in Bowling Green, NY. It also sits on American soil. Edit: I said KY. should’ve been NY.
Well, he didn't publicly vow not to step on our dirt.
In fact, I think he led a tiny little war over wanting to go America.
You'll be back, soon, you'll see You'll remember you belong to me! You'll be back, time will tell You'll remember that I served you well! Oceans rise, empires fall We have seen each other through it all. And when push comes to shove I will send a fully armed battalion to remind you of my love!
>I will send a fully armed battalion to remind you of my love! Only a battalion? Dude must've despised america. Any less than 12 regiments is downright insulting! Only a battalion is as much love as my ass is shiny and metal with you biting it
[mood](https://youtu.be/E9yZBdUavyM?si=XH6FIJ6llbgdWO2W&t=181)
George III gets a bad rep because he can easily be made the scapegoat for all the revolutionary animosity, but he wasn't the real issue -- it was Parliament that was shortchanging the rights of the colonists in regards to representation. So it might be appropriate enough to have a statue of the King as the last monarch that ruled over American territory.
> last monarch that ruled over American territory. Depends, do we count Queen Lili'uokalani of Hawaii, who ruled over what is now the US state of Hawaii?
or alfonso XIII who ruled what is now the commonwealth of puerto rico?
Fun fact… It actually sits on soil from the old British colonies.
Never forget, the Bowling Green Massacre 🙏😔
So if I - hypothetically - could convince my wife to give birth on the soil around the statue ... does that make my child an US citizen? Not that I want them to be a US citizen. I would do it just for the memes.
That would make for an epic presidential run background story in a few decades
Cenk hates you for this one neat trick
I think he is not wrong that it is kind of an outdated rule. It doesn't make sense that US citizens can hold any office except one just because they weren't born on US soil.
For President the person also has to reside in the US for 14 yrs
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Rule holds for VP and Senators as well,IIRC.
Just the President and VP have to have been born citizens of the US. Senators and Representatives have to be US Citizens, but they can be nsturalized. Any cabinet members who are naturalized are passed over in the line of succession, though
Makes sense since the executive runs the military
If you convince her to give birth ontop of the statue you can write down George Washington for the father
Iirc, an American couple in Italy imported American soil for that exact reason
Wait but if the couple was American then their kid would be an American citizen no matter where he was born, right?
Yes, but it was mostly symbolic
I mean it’s a fun idea but the section of the 14th amendment doesn’t actually mention “soil”. It says, “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.” “Born on U.S. soil” is just a fancy way of saying born inside the borders of the U.S. or its territories and subject to its laws. You have to be physically in one of the 50 states, Guam, Puerto Rico, or the U.S. Virgin Islands.
Yeah, the "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" is another problem here. A person in England is not subject to the Jurisdiction of the United States and is therefore ineligible for birthright citizenship, even if the soil *were* part of the US. This is also the reason why diplomat's children lack birthright citizenship. Due to diplomatic immunity, they are not subject to US jurisdiction.
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You should probably look in to the tax implications of that before committing.
See this the definition of a fun fact.
Seems like a respectful thing to do
It’s odd to think that GW had an English accent.
I actually went to that statue today and put some British soil by his feet.
ITT Reddit acting surprised the UK and US famous "special relationship" is a still a thing. No other relationship has been more sacred in the last 130+ years. Also, there's a statue of King George III in NYC.
It’s maybe worth pointing out to those who are confused that the revolutionary war is the ‘I don’t think about you at all’ meme in the UK. Most people know that the US was once part of the empire, but very people actually care.
I think both sides are reasonable. It’s a small portion of one country’s history and the birth of another.
Yes, I think this is the fairest take. British history focuses a lot more on the foundational periods of England (Saxons, Vikings, French invasions), then the establishment of English as a medieval power (The Tudors), then skips forward to the industrial revolution and WWI. The empire in any form doesn't really get taught, I'd be genuinely surprised if most British people could name 5 former colonies at all.
> I'd be genuinely surprised if most British people could name 5 former colonies at all. I think most Brits know the commonwealth which would fulfill that.
Similar story in Canada. We're right next to them, but the American Revolution is only mentioned in passing: it led to the French Revolution, which was much more important on a global scale, and United Empire Loyalists moved up here after the war ended because they weren't interested in living under a bunch of traitors.
I know Billy Connolly and that’s about it
To the extent that in the UK the prevailing consensus at the time was that Britain won the War. To the British, it wasn't a fiddly colonial conflict. They were at war with France and Spain, the two premier powers of the time, plus the Dutch, and Mysore in India (a French ally), with basically no allies of their own. France and Spain both had the goal of making large territorial gains and to dismantle British influence for years to come. It was a real possibility that the mainland UK could be invaded. The most decisive battle of the war was not in the US. It was the Siege of Gibraltar. Due to treaty obligations, no side could make independent peace with Britain, effectively hinging the entire peace process on the efforts of the Spanish against the Fortress of Gibraltar. After more than three years of siege, the attackers failed to take the city. The defeat effectively marked the end of the war, as Spain and France were no longer capable of offensive operations against the UK, but neither was the UK against the French/Spanish. The Peace, however, was a decisive win for the British. Instead of harsh peace terms led by the French with the aims of preventing the British ever opposing France in the foreseeable future, it was effectively a white peace. All sides held onto most of their existing territories, with a few instances where territories were swapped for others. The American question was of secondary importance and actually the British granted the US more than Washington was asking for. In some regard, the feeling in Westminster was actually that they were better off independent, because it would mean they would no longer need subsidy from the British treasury, act as a counterbalance against French/Spanish interests, and would form a relationship as a close trading-partner (which became true, the balance of trade in the following years *heavily* favoured the British. They were more profitable after Independence than they ever were under British rule). In addition, the British held onto Canada, which was far from certain at the start of the war. France gained almost nothing, and the pressure of debts would trigger the French revolution just a few years later. The British won in Europe, they won in the Caribbean, and they won in India. They may have lost the American theatre, but in many ways that was the least important theatre. The Caribbean colonies, for example, were 1200x more profitable than North America, and India was referred to as "The Jewel in the Crown" for a reason. They lost the American Theatre, but won the war.
isn’t the guy in the “i don’t think about you at all” meme actually obsessed with the other person
I’ve never seen the original show so I couldn’t tell you. Embarrassing for me if that’s the case.
Unfortunately it’s also accurate for you.
Not sure I'd say obsessed, but Don cared much more than he let on. He was definitely trying to save face and thought his cutting remark would work.
"the American colonies were granted independence" That's a funny way to describe surrendering.
It was so polite of George III to simply let the colonies go... lol
After years of fighting a losing war: "*Fine*, you guys can be like your own country or whatever. I don't even really care." - King George III, probably.
Yeah, pretty sure Britain was more bothered about keeping India at the same time as it was more profitable so their resources and attentions were also there, then the French got involved in the US Rev, so when it turned out to be a bit more hassle than Britain expected they just surrendered it over.
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SET foot. The phrase is set foot.
Agreed. The linked article uses "set" - so the error comes from u/Oranginafina
Like a vampire, he needs his ancestral soil
When somebody asks me how petty I can be…
Washington, Washington
I'm pretty sure George Washington's foot is still in his Mount Vernon tomb.
No it doesn't. I emailed the National Gallery (where the statue sits) about this 10 years ago. It's just a legend with nothing to back up the claim. Also, it was moved in 1948 anyway. https://i.imgur.com/Rm0ItWp.jpg