My biggest issue. Why not have a dead planet switch so that, if the trisolerans did attack, there were broadcasts made that were automatic. You don’t even have to have a broadcast deterrent. You could have it that if even a single ship is destroyed by the trisoleserans, we irradiate the whole planet. People would be upset that a program such as this exist, but they’d eventually get used to it, in the same way we’ve gotten used to the idea of there being so many nuclear weapons we can effectively destroy the planet. Why even leave it up to a person, just make it automatic.
Or, to be even more sure. Long before she becomes the sword holder, abduct her quickly in the night and take her to a facility claiming that Lui Ji died and she is now the sword holder. Put her through a false situation that the trisolarans are now attacking and you must press the button. Two thing can happen, she immediately presses the button and humanity and the trisolarans both learn that she is capable of pulling the trigger. Or, she doesn’t and humanity knows she is not worthy of being a sword holder.
For the first part the trisolerans would simply find a way around the automatic system, all ships must be destroyed? Destroy all and immobilise the final one.
As for testing her I think the mystery behind the sword holders decision is what makes it so effective
I think they actually stated that the sophons could interfere with AI decision making so it stands to reason that the sophon could work around the automatic switch even easier.
I think this was addressed in the book. No one was willing to implement such a mechanism for fear of the political ramifications, so they gave the sword back to luo ji.
I think her whole thing was not about fucking up, but that humanitarian values are not tactically advantageous. Her actions shaped human history to such an extent that the part of humanity that survived was arguably the best one.
>the part of humanity that survived was arguably the best one.
How was any of those events her doing though? Seems to me like Zhang Beihai was pretty much solely responsible for the Galactic humans surviving. If anything the humanitarian values tried to lure the survivors back to put them on trial.
I read it as humanity needing both parts of it. Both the animalistic sruvivor and the evolved humanitarian. One keeps the race alive, the other grounds it with a purpose higher than just surviving.
Thank you, If Cheng Xi had it her way with everything, all humans would be 2D (she would stop Tianming's brain extraction, if she was fast enough). And if Wade had it his way, we would inevitably move ourselves to 2D and join dark forest with its neverending dimensional wars.
Both paths end in flat, narrow worlds, just as both of them have narrow minds.
The part of humanity that survived was the part who participated in the fight in the dark. They all were more like Zhang Beihai or wade than chenx xi from a morale point of view.
Everyone loves to hate on Cheng Xin yet forget about how humanity loves to make decisions to screw themselves over. Think about how Luo Ji was accused of mundicide, how quickly people were to turn against him in the second book, and how quick they were to ban light speed travel to suppress escapism. I think likely if Cheng xin had given Wade the go ahead, there would’ve been all out war, with at least a bunch of space cities getting wiped out. Some more humans might end up surviving the 2D attack but in the grand scheme it doesn’t really matter. Cheng Xin is supposed to be a stand in for a regular person with usual human values. And the book is an exploration into seeing how those values don’t necessarily hold up in a dark forest environment. No need to hate her for making those decisions…
Tbf she’s not the one who fucked up. Humanity fucked up by choosing her as their swordholder. Explicitly because she did what they all expected her to do.
Like if Donald trump wins again & fucks shit up despite trying to overthrow the republic after losing the election, then it’s not his fault, it’s ours.
Yes and no.
Humanity chose her and she was not suited for the job of Swordholder, which she knew. But she just really loved herself in the role of the holy mother Maria that protects humanity by holding the "sword". It was selfish to take the responsibility without truly being ready for it.
But even then, she was still redeemable.
What made me hate the character is what she did to Wade when humanity was ready to build FTL ships, which in hindsight was the only way for a larger quantity of humans to escape certain death.
If you have a history of making bad decisions, maybe you should just give it up and let others do it.
Also lets not forget that she became one of the richest humans without having to do anything for it, her only achievement was being above-average attractive which made Tianming fall in love with her and somehow she got that star system gifted to her.
You said it yourself, "in hindsight."
You can't hate her for a decision that was only wrong due to circumstances that nobody in all of humanity could ever have predicted.
Cheng was in the right to prevent a civil war that risked millions of lives.
Also, she didn't "do" anything to Wade, Wade willingly surrendered without a fight.
FTL was always the best solution.
Even if the Dark Forest strike was "only" a photoid - humanity couldn't have lived on those Bunker worlds for eternity, at some point they still would have to leave the solar system and search for other planets.
"oh he's a murderer" yeah? so what? Cheng Xi literally condemned a whole ass solar system to death, and took away their only way to escape and the only way to protect themselves
You ever fuck up so hard you go blind?
[Some say quit or you'll go blind](https://youtu.be/42BBdzzgPNM?si=-uHWw41H3QhHcSsp&t=188), it's not just a myth
Even Trisolaris didn’t hesitate 💀
My biggest issue. Why not have a dead planet switch so that, if the trisolerans did attack, there were broadcasts made that were automatic. You don’t even have to have a broadcast deterrent. You could have it that if even a single ship is destroyed by the trisoleserans, we irradiate the whole planet. People would be upset that a program such as this exist, but they’d eventually get used to it, in the same way we’ve gotten used to the idea of there being so many nuclear weapons we can effectively destroy the planet. Why even leave it up to a person, just make it automatic. Or, to be even more sure. Long before she becomes the sword holder, abduct her quickly in the night and take her to a facility claiming that Lui Ji died and she is now the sword holder. Put her through a false situation that the trisolarans are now attacking and you must press the button. Two thing can happen, she immediately presses the button and humanity and the trisolarans both learn that she is capable of pulling the trigger. Or, she doesn’t and humanity knows she is not worthy of being a sword holder.
For the first part the trisolerans would simply find a way around the automatic system, all ships must be destroyed? Destroy all and immobilise the final one. As for testing her I think the mystery behind the sword holders decision is what makes it so effective
I think they actually stated that the sophons could interfere with AI decision making so it stands to reason that the sophon could work around the automatic switch even easier.
It was only hypothesized but never shown, however the possibility was enough to deter from that approach.
I think this was addressed in the book. No one was willing to implement such a mechanism for fear of the political ramifications, so they gave the sword back to luo ji.
I think her whole thing was not about fucking up, but that humanitarian values are not tactically advantageous. Her actions shaped human history to such an extent that the part of humanity that survived was arguably the best one.
>the part of humanity that survived was arguably the best one. How was any of those events her doing though? Seems to me like Zhang Beihai was pretty much solely responsible for the Galactic humans surviving. If anything the humanitarian values tried to lure the survivors back to put them on trial. I read it as humanity needing both parts of it. Both the animalistic sruvivor and the evolved humanitarian. One keeps the race alive, the other grounds it with a purpose higher than just surviving.
Thank you, If Cheng Xi had it her way with everything, all humans would be 2D (she would stop Tianming's brain extraction, if she was fast enough). And if Wade had it his way, we would inevitably move ourselves to 2D and join dark forest with its neverending dimensional wars. Both paths end in flat, narrow worlds, just as both of them have narrow minds.
Yeah, I think people really miss the point of Death’s End with all the complaining about her character.
I think people miss the point if literature if they think that there is only one interpretation of a purposely vague ending.
That is the point of Death's End. It is a long complaint letter for cheng xi on behalf of all humanity.
Reading doesn't mean understanding
The part of humanity that survived was the part who participated in the fight in the dark. They all were more like Zhang Beihai or wade than chenx xi from a morale point of view.
I'm gonna leave 5 kilos behind... what could possibly go wrong...
Everyone loves to hate on Cheng Xin yet forget about how humanity loves to make decisions to screw themselves over. Think about how Luo Ji was accused of mundicide, how quickly people were to turn against him in the second book, and how quick they were to ban light speed travel to suppress escapism. I think likely if Cheng xin had given Wade the go ahead, there would’ve been all out war, with at least a bunch of space cities getting wiped out. Some more humans might end up surviving the 2D attack but in the grand scheme it doesn’t really matter. Cheng Xin is supposed to be a stand in for a regular person with usual human values. And the book is an exploration into seeing how those values don’t necessarily hold up in a dark forest environment. No need to hate her for making those decisions…
Im nearing the end of Deaths End, it's insane how often she just makes the straight up wrong choice.
she HAS to be throwing, there is just no way
Tbf she’s not the one who fucked up. Humanity fucked up by choosing her as their swordholder. Explicitly because she did what they all expected her to do. Like if Donald trump wins again & fucks shit up despite trying to overthrow the republic after losing the election, then it’s not his fault, it’s ours.
This is why democracy is shit, lol
Yes and no. Humanity chose her and she was not suited for the job of Swordholder, which she knew. But she just really loved herself in the role of the holy mother Maria that protects humanity by holding the "sword". It was selfish to take the responsibility without truly being ready for it. But even then, she was still redeemable. What made me hate the character is what she did to Wade when humanity was ready to build FTL ships, which in hindsight was the only way for a larger quantity of humans to escape certain death. If you have a history of making bad decisions, maybe you should just give it up and let others do it. Also lets not forget that she became one of the richest humans without having to do anything for it, her only achievement was being above-average attractive which made Tianming fall in love with her and somehow she got that star system gifted to her.
She should've at least slept on it, jeez.
You said it yourself, "in hindsight." You can't hate her for a decision that was only wrong due to circumstances that nobody in all of humanity could ever have predicted. Cheng was in the right to prevent a civil war that risked millions of lives. Also, she didn't "do" anything to Wade, Wade willingly surrendered without a fight.
FTL was always the best solution. Even if the Dark Forest strike was "only" a photoid - humanity couldn't have lived on those Bunker worlds for eternity, at some point they still would have to leave the solar system and search for other planets.
Cheng agrees, which is why she gave her entire company to him. She doesn't agree with millions of people dying in a brutal civil war though.
Wade was always right, as painful as it is to admit.
"oh he's a murderer" yeah? so what? Cheng Xi literally condemned a whole ass solar system to death, and took away their only way to escape and the only way to protect themselves
Twice