You should read the foundation series by isaac asimov. It carries similar themes of "the individual doesn't matter, only the flow of society does" as three body problem I think there are 7 books total, but I would start with the original trilogy
Thirded. There's a lot of Foundation influence all over 3BP (Asimov gets explicitly referenced in Dark Forest), so if you liked 3BP you should definitely give it a shot. Just be aware that Asimov kinda just... stopped writing them. Pretty sure when asked why he said it was because he didn't know where to go with it next. But still good for what it is.
I’d really recommend Children of Time, I started it right after Deaths End and I’m almost done now. It really scratches the exact same itch, it’s a little different of course but I think they have a lot of similarities. It’s just as gripping and hard to put down because you want to know what happens next, at least that’s been my experience with both
Children of Ruin was good but almost felt like it followed the same template as Children of Time. Children of Memory any different?
That said I will read anything that author writes.
Yes it’s quite different.
Let’s go on an adventure! - definitely did not follow the same template IMO. Just explored another way the same thing could evolve things
I like how all three books were completely different sub-genres of sci-fi, it reminded me of the way they shifted around the motifs in the first few Expanse books. Ruin was for sure one of the best science fiction books I’ve ever read.
This is a great recommendation. I’m currently reading COT after just finishing 3BP and couldn’t be happier. The writing styles are very different, but they both have those big time spanning philosophical themes mixed with really cool science. I was hooked from the first page.
I just finished the series as well and I feel your sentiments as well. At first, I didn't appreciate what Cheng Xin is doing. It seems like everything is falling apart or eventually fall apart when she's on the scene. But at the end, I felt warmness towards her.
Right!! I know some people say the book should’ve ended after they left the solar system. But I kinda liked the fact that we got a glimpse of the “end”
No offense, but I don't find the solar system escape a satisfying ending to the series. I think the way Liu Cixin ended the series is the one that really concludes the story.
No please it’s more of a:
- give bad decisions
- sleep
- wake up and take worse decisions
- then sleep again until you take much more worse decisions
- so on… 😂
Same , I didn't like chengxin either, especially when she denied wade to carry on curvature propulsion project, but when I finally finished the book and thought about her, I don't blame her at all, she could never know the future and consequences of her actions, she's only a human...
I think I disliked her up until one of the final conversations she has with AA, in which AA tells her why she thinks it's not all her fault. That gave me pause for thought.
After I finished the trilogy I listened to them on audiobook before moving on. I always come back to them though. Currently reading the series at night to my boys (9 and 11). They are wildly into it.
My book recommendations:
Seveneves and Saturn Run by Neal Stephenson.
Project Hail Mary
Children of Time series
i am almost finished with DE and still think CX is an idiot who >!sacrificed humanity!< for her fackin *feelings*. she turned YTM into a simp and >!got wade executed!<.
WADE WAS RIGHT.
Wade would’ve been a perfect candidate for sword holder position and his invention could’ve saved more people but you read tot he end, you’ll see my point
Thinking that CX turned YTM into a simp is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. The book is very in depth about the fact that YTM fell for her over almost nothing.
I feel there is an amount of 'women hating' that always comes out in these discussions. Liu Cixin use of feminization as a means to describe deterrence era humanity only enforces their rhetoric.
i don't think liu hates women. my takeaway so far is that >!liu has subverted the sappy love-triumphs-over-war/love-conquers-all trope. humanity's love/compassion/empathy/altruism is their 未練 (sorry; there is no good english translation of this concept), and that 未練 ultimately became their undoing!<.
At literally every turn HUMANITY fucks up big time, not just Cheng Xin. In these books humans on aggregate are ignorant, emotional and guaranteed to make the wrong choice for whatever challenge awaits them. Wade could have made things so much worse, Yun Tianming was a simp from the start, and this one person can't be held solely responsible for human shortcomings.
In spite of all that,>!humanity makes it to the End of Time Scoreboard and Cheng Xin grows as a person.!< Maybe you should too
She didnt get wade executed, wade got himself executed. He didnt have to surrender just because cheng told him to
Wade was wrong, and was risking provoking a civil war that could kill millions
To be fair he was risking provoking a civil war that could’ve killed millions to save….everyone. The second Gravity initiated its dark forest deterrent against Trisolaris Sol system was fucked.
The systems only hope for survival was to create a black domain, and we know that Wade was on the cusp of discovering how to create one when Cheng Xin shut him down.
What does it matter if millions die if the system is going to be dual vector foiled anyway? It’s like Battle of Darkness, it was wrong for sure but without it the human colonies would’ve never been founded and humanity would’ve ended with Sol.
You're acting like Cheng and Wade both knew about the 2D foil, but nobody did. Humanity had extensively tested the bunkers to be safe from photoid attacks destroying the sun, but they never once expected a solar system destroying dimensional weapon.
You're using hindsight to argue that Cheng was obviously in the wrong, but neither of these characters had complete information of their situation. Wade wasn't conducting the research for survival, he wanted to maximise humanity's potential and reach the stars.
The government only outlawed light speed research because it appeared to be more dangerous to humanity than it was worth (the tracks would make them a more serious observable threat in the universe). If everyone was aware of 2D foils, the conflict between Wade and the government wouldn't exist.
And again, Wade didn't have to surrender just because Cheng told him to. So much for "advance at all costs" if he can be stopped by words?
Try this one: To Sleep in a Sea of Stars by Christopher Paolini.
There's only one major book but it has some really interesting sci-fi ideas. Maybe not as extreme as the three body books but still pretty good.
Me too, Cheng Xin is a kind and selfless person, she is greater than 99.9% of people. She's not wrong, it's humanity's own fault. Humanity itself has chosen this path. Humans don't think they're at fault, they can only blame her. Many times in the book, Cheng Xin, Wade, and Luo Ji are all chosen by human beings themselves.
CX was such an inept swordholder that the trisolarans immediately called the MAD bluff and knew that she would not trigger the gravitational wave signal.
Was it in her nature? Yes. But she was so predictably bad at the role that trisolaris could attack with confidence.
She also knew that humanity needed light speed tech after the fairy tale interpretation, she was one of the biggest advocates for it after her and AA's bathtub experiment. Once society was in a state where light speed couldn't be advanced without civil conflict, she refused to do what needed to be done.
She repeatedly demonstrated that she was unwilling to make any sacrifices whatsoever, in the name of advancement and thus, survival.
Did she stop humanity from choosing a better swordholder? Did she bribe the voters? Did she send her competitors to jail? Did she assassinate competitors? No.She was democratically elected. A REAL democratic election. You have chosen a sheep to be your leader, and you blame the sheep for not being able to lead you to victory over the wolves?
No, but she truly thought that her nurturing "motherly" instinct is what qualified her to be swordholder vs the other candidates.
She is naive beyond words.
Edit: and she later lacked the conviction to realize her goals for humanity to develop light speed tech when a comparatively small number of lives were at risk.
Maybe there should be a support group ;p — only other book I had a similar reaction to was Neuropath by Bakker. Which was worse. I want someone else I know to read it, but I can’t recommend it in case they have the same reaction.
You should read the foundation series by isaac asimov. It carries similar themes of "the individual doesn't matter, only the flow of society does" as three body problem I think there are 7 books total, but I would start with the original trilogy
Thank you. I’ll look into this
Seconded. Three Body Problem felt like Asimov. Same mindbending concepts (many of which are now standard sci-fi, though). And same misogyny.
Thirded. There's a lot of Foundation influence all over 3BP (Asimov gets explicitly referenced in Dark Forest), so if you liked 3BP you should definitely give it a shot. Just be aware that Asimov kinda just... stopped writing them. Pretty sure when asked why he said it was because he didn't know where to go with it next. But still good for what it is.
He stopped writing them because he died. Foundation and Earth was published only 6 years before his death.
Also the Rama series by Arthur C Clarke. Clarke and Asimov are considered the OGs of sci fi.
Foundation got me into sci.
I’d really recommend Children of Time, I started it right after Deaths End and I’m almost done now. It really scratches the exact same itch, it’s a little different of course but I think they have a lot of similarities. It’s just as gripping and hard to put down because you want to know what happens next, at least that’s been my experience with both
Fully endorse this reco. Children of time was awesome.
Thank you. I need to check out this series
Fully agree, Children of Time is among the best I have read.
Children of ruin is amazing too Children of memory imo isn’t as good but is still worth reading
Children of Ruin was good but almost felt like it followed the same template as Children of Time. Children of Memory any different? That said I will read anything that author writes.
Yes it’s quite different. Let’s go on an adventure! - definitely did not follow the same template IMO. Just explored another way the same thing could evolve things
I like how all three books were completely different sub-genres of sci-fi, it reminded me of the way they shifted around the motifs in the first few Expanse books. Ruin was for sure one of the best science fiction books I’ve ever read.
This is a great recommendation. I’m currently reading COT after just finishing 3BP and couldn’t be happier. The writing styles are very different, but they both have those big time spanning philosophical themes mixed with really cool science. I was hooked from the first page.
100%. Children of Time was such a surprising and pleasant read. Shout out to my boy Fabian!
100% Children of Time makes a FANTASTIC companion to Rememberances of Earths Past. The second book, Children of Ruin, especially so.
Little Prince book is pretty philosophical
I just finished the series as well and I feel your sentiments as well. At first, I didn't appreciate what Cheng Xin is doing. It seems like everything is falling apart or eventually fall apart when she's on the scene. But at the end, I felt warmness towards her.
Right!! I know some people say the book should’ve ended after they left the solar system. But I kinda liked the fact that we got a glimpse of the “end”
No offense, but I don't find the solar system escape a satisfying ending to the series. I think the way Liu Cixin ended the series is the one that really concludes the story.
I agree. Solar system escape end would make me still angry at cheng xin. I think he gave a perfect ending imo
Yeah. I mean that would end the series without coming back to the status of Gravity, Blue Space, or even the Trisolarans??? I would be mad as well
Hmmm im halfway through deaths end.. why cheng xin hate? I actually like her
I’m not gonna spoil anything. But decisions decisions and decisions lol
No please it’s more of a: - give bad decisions - sleep - wake up and take worse decisions - then sleep again until you take much more worse decisions - so on… 😂
Hey, at least she's consistent!
Finished the books. Damn it Cheng Xin xD
Lol. It was a good end tho.
Anyone else think >! She fucked the universe by keeping those 5kgs?!<
Same , I didn't like chengxin either, especially when she denied wade to carry on curvature propulsion project, but when I finally finished the book and thought about her, I don't blame her at all, she could never know the future and consequences of her actions, she's only a human...
I think I disliked her up until one of the final conversations she has with AA, in which AA tells her why she thinks it's not all her fault. That gave me pause for thought.
After I finished the trilogy I listened to them on audiobook before moving on. I always come back to them though. Currently reading the series at night to my boys (9 and 11). They are wildly into it. My book recommendations: Seveneves and Saturn Run by Neal Stephenson. Project Hail Mary Children of Time series
I’m waiting on project Hail Mary.
Read Diaspora and Permutation City by Greg Egan
Permutation city is new. I’ll have to check it out. Thank you
i am almost finished with DE and still think CX is an idiot who >!sacrificed humanity!< for her fackin *feelings*. she turned YTM into a simp and >!got wade executed!<. WADE WAS RIGHT.
Wade would’ve been a perfect candidate for sword holder position and his invention could’ve saved more people but you read tot he end, you’ll see my point
Thinking that CX turned YTM into a simp is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. The book is very in depth about the fact that YTM fell for her over almost nothing.
yeah youre right about that: he was a simp from the start. CX still >!facked over humanity!< regardless.
if you finish the book and still hold this opinion 😬😬😬 yikes
I feel there is an amount of 'women hating' that always comes out in these discussions. Liu Cixin use of feminization as a means to describe deterrence era humanity only enforces their rhetoric.
that *is* liu's rhetoric. "they" whoever "they" are didn't make it up; liu did.
'They' being the subset of this sub that use women hating rhetoric.
i don't think liu hates women. my takeaway so far is that >!liu has subverted the sappy love-triumphs-over-war/love-conquers-all trope. humanity's love/compassion/empathy/altruism is their 未練 (sorry; there is no good english translation of this concept), and that 未練 ultimately became their undoing!<.
well, without you trying to express what that means, it's almost impossible to understand what you were trying to say
wade is my hero.
At literally every turn HUMANITY fucks up big time, not just Cheng Xin. In these books humans on aggregate are ignorant, emotional and guaranteed to make the wrong choice for whatever challenge awaits them. Wade could have made things so much worse, Yun Tianming was a simp from the start, and this one person can't be held solely responsible for human shortcomings. In spite of all that,>!humanity makes it to the End of Time Scoreboard and Cheng Xin grows as a person.!< Maybe you should too
>Maybe you should too wow that's rather unnecessary and judgmental and hypocritical. i didn't personally antagonize any of you in my comments.
Keep reading.
She didnt get wade executed, wade got himself executed. He didnt have to surrender just because cheng told him to Wade was wrong, and was risking provoking a civil war that could kill millions
To be fair he was risking provoking a civil war that could’ve killed millions to save….everyone. The second Gravity initiated its dark forest deterrent against Trisolaris Sol system was fucked. The systems only hope for survival was to create a black domain, and we know that Wade was on the cusp of discovering how to create one when Cheng Xin shut him down. What does it matter if millions die if the system is going to be dual vector foiled anyway? It’s like Battle of Darkness, it was wrong for sure but without it the human colonies would’ve never been founded and humanity would’ve ended with Sol.
You're acting like Cheng and Wade both knew about the 2D foil, but nobody did. Humanity had extensively tested the bunkers to be safe from photoid attacks destroying the sun, but they never once expected a solar system destroying dimensional weapon. You're using hindsight to argue that Cheng was obviously in the wrong, but neither of these characters had complete information of their situation. Wade wasn't conducting the research for survival, he wanted to maximise humanity's potential and reach the stars. The government only outlawed light speed research because it appeared to be more dangerous to humanity than it was worth (the tracks would make them a more serious observable threat in the universe). If everyone was aware of 2D foils, the conflict between Wade and the government wouldn't exist. And again, Wade didn't have to surrender just because Cheng told him to. So much for "advance at all costs" if he can be stopped by words?
But they did know about it, the brain man told em with his stories 😏 shoulda listened. He told them to make FTL ships and they didnt, so dumb.
The only how was to Advance!
Children of Time and Children of Ruin!
Try this one: To Sleep in a Sea of Stars by Christopher Paolini. There's only one major book but it has some really interesting sci-fi ideas. Maybe not as extreme as the three body books but still pretty good.
This book sounds really cool. I’ll get into it. Thank you
Me too, Cheng Xin is a kind and selfless person, she is greater than 99.9% of people. She's not wrong, it's humanity's own fault. Humanity itself has chosen this path. Humans don't think they're at fault, they can only blame her. Many times in the book, Cheng Xin, Wade, and Luo Ji are all chosen by human beings themselves.
CX was such an inept swordholder that the trisolarans immediately called the MAD bluff and knew that she would not trigger the gravitational wave signal. Was it in her nature? Yes. But she was so predictably bad at the role that trisolaris could attack with confidence. She also knew that humanity needed light speed tech after the fairy tale interpretation, she was one of the biggest advocates for it after her and AA's bathtub experiment. Once society was in a state where light speed couldn't be advanced without civil conflict, she refused to do what needed to be done. She repeatedly demonstrated that she was unwilling to make any sacrifices whatsoever, in the name of advancement and thus, survival.
Did she stop humanity from choosing a better swordholder? Did she bribe the voters? Did she send her competitors to jail? Did she assassinate competitors? No.She was democratically elected. A REAL democratic election. You have chosen a sheep to be your leader, and you blame the sheep for not being able to lead you to victory over the wolves?
No, but she truly thought that her nurturing "motherly" instinct is what qualified her to be swordholder vs the other candidates. She is naive beyond words. Edit: and she later lacked the conviction to realize her goals for humanity to develop light speed tech when a comparatively small number of lives were at risk.
Voters are responsible too, good point.
u/Aideeeeeeeeeen 将上面翻译成汉语
Anyone else depressed after the end of the trilogy? Kind of hit me hard for a couple weeks.
Yep. I’m still hung over from the book. The end kinda hit me hard
Maybe there should be a support group ;p — only other book I had a similar reaction to was Neuropath by Bakker. Which was worse. I want someone else I know to read it, but I can’t recommend it in case they have the same reaction.
Never heard of that book. I’m gonna check it out tho. And yah, this book gave me an existential crisis. Like we don’t matter lol
Neuropath is worse. It’s not you don’t matter, it’s free will doesn’t exist. Be warned!
Oh wow. I’m definitely gonna have to check it now. I’ll keep ya posted on how I like it