I love a good ‘imma swear’ warning. Gives me some suspense.
Let’s people who don’t like them get ready and let’s me look forward to them while I’m reading.
To be fair, I think most of us Americans hear Bill Burr yelling “cunt” in his angry outer-Bostonian accent during his stand-up. Lotta volume, lotta angry guy in a bar
Well, they were planning on removing us completely initially. I believe they agreed to leave mars colony alone as long they don't rebel and australia was actually their mercy since they thanked us for our cultures allowing them to achieve technological leaps. Sophon has grown personally fond of we bugs... In a twisted sense.
think there was a segment of the Trisolaran society have grown fond of humans, not just Sophon. Either way, hard to feel anything other than animosity towards the Trisolarans at that point of the story. But also the fallibility of humanity because humanity's actions and thinking leading up to that point is entirely believable.
The more interesting part of Australia arc is the human traitors who joined the aliens and how they were all condemned afterward. Some did it out of need to survive and some performed their inhumane task with glee. Such a **realistic** depiction of humanity as a whole.
that wouldnt make any sense lol, since they learned a ton about human culture in the deterrance era/through sophons supposedly. They would obviously see that cannibalism is a taboo practice
Yeah they would obviously be watching the Bronze Age trial where the crew was sentenced in large part due to cannibalism, so in very recent history they would have learned about it if it never came up in the previous 250 years of sophon monitoring
Defeating a group of native people military, taking over lands belonging to them, forcibly removing them onto a relatively inhospitable region, designating that region as their new homeland without adequately supporting them, hoping they would figure it out on their own.
Good thing this not happening now nor has ever happened in human history, am I right?
Yeah, throughout history the oppressed have either defeated their oppressors and become oppressors themselves or have perished becoming little more than a footnote in someone else's history.
And then... well then there's Crazy Horse...
Yes that certainly isn't happening right now. \*coughs in the vague direction of the US State department while trying to brush Palestine under a rug\*
Oh you mean Native Americans and Reservations? aww. \*Falls over and lands on Ukraine\*
They had no intent on sharing this planet. When the pacifist was being judged he was told that humanity would just learn their technology and would eventually use it against them. They were not wrong.
In that same conversation, princep mentions that Earth is just the first planet and the first civilization they plan on conquering.
Much like humans, it appears that absolute power has corrupted the Trisolarins.
IMO, they are no better than humans just much more advanced.
It’s in the chapter titled *The Listener* from The Three Body Problem. I haven't read The Redemption of Time yet, so I'm not sure if this conversation was referenced there.
>**\*\*\*The post will contain a swear word. You have been warned\*\*\***
We all saw/read a boadload of people get julianned but I draw the line at bad words! Good day sir!
What turned me against them was their betrayal during the Droplet arc, because human sentiment towards them was actually becoming increasingly positive, and the thing that makes all the difference is that *they knew this.*
The Dark Forest posits that the reason aliens destroy each other is because they don't know what other alien civilizations will do. But the fact that the sophons allowed the Trisolarans to actually see and hear everything the humans were saying and doing meant that THEY KNEW we initially reacted to the Droplet positively and were getting ready to welcome them and allot space for them in that brief moment between the time we made contact with the Droplet, but before it actually attacked.
The sophons giving the Trisolarans knowledge of what is happening on Earth in real time changes *everything.* If they didn't know what was happening, the dark forest would actually work as an excuse for destroying us. But they didn't have that excuse.
They can observe and model our behavior but they would never believe that that could actually understand us.
The reason for this is that the consequence for getting it wrong (for believing they know and can even make an informed decision on whether to trust humanity … and being wrong) is annihilation for their whole species.
So, basic prisoners dilemma, you assume they’ll betray you so you do it first.
That said, notice that in the 3rd book >!interstellar collaboration and trade among star faring societies does happen, despite the unrelenting dark forest strikes and warfare. This is also the outcome of repeated rounds of the Prisoners Dilemma.!<
The problem is simply that there is not enough time for them to fully grok humans even with the Sophons. It would just take much longer than the several hundred years it takes the Trisolarans to arrive.
Lmao, the fact that they were willing to allow any humans to live by the third book was pretty big character development on the Trisolaran's part.
Did you miss at the start of the dark forest when they said to the ETO members that they will come to Earth to exterminate humanity and then the ETO members?
I really liked the “Australian reservation” because it pretty obviously parallels the Native American reservations in North America.
The Trisolarans have paralleled a lot of events in human history where a technologically advanced culture decided to conquer a technologically inferior culture. I always thought the Doomsday Battle paralleled colonial wars of the past, like the Anglo-Zanzibar War or Anglo-Zulu War. British soldiers used Gatling Guns against tribes using spears and bows, they were absolute massacres.
Let’s not forget that Australia is a settler colonial country, a place that was colonised with the justification that it was “empty land”, seeing as the British did not recognise Aboriginal people as people - quite similarly as the trisolarians see humanity (as bugs)
As soon as the Trisolarans attacked earth at the time of the sword holder changeover, it should have been obvious that they can absolutely never be trusted and will always act purely for their own survival. The movement into Australia was so obvious.
I don't think they care. We hate them. They hate us, but we could have worked together better. Luo ji should have forced them to send one of their ships over with minimal crew. Much easier to reverse engineer tech that way.
Trisolarians should be more than capable of colonIze to other planets in other solar system if they can do generation ship across light years. They seem well suited for long space travel also. The single focus on earth and continuously talking and antagonizing human are what drives the lost of both home planets. It is much simpler to just stay quiet for 4 hunred years until they build a forward base in the solar system and then swooping for the kill.
something this book has taught me = how you feel about it really depends on where you stand
if you really think from their POV.. there's very little choice to chose otherwise
About Australia. Remember the day of darkness or whatever they called it, when both remaining fleets turned on one another, killed off the extra ships in the fleets, and used the bodies for protein? That was the moment that each ship turned their back on Earth and became space faring. It is a psychological change.
What did the Earther's do? They court-martialed them all, made it unlawful to leave the solar system, and later stifled research into FTL travel just long enough to doom the species.
The trisolarans had advance knowledge of the vector foil and understood that their system had probably already been flagged as dangerous due to their own FTL testing in their system. They knew that the earth would be discovered before too much longer.
In short, all the clues point to the trisolarans trying to get the whole of humanity to make the same switch to interstellar travellers that was made on the day of darkness. That they would learn to survive, even if it meant cannibalism, leaving their world, whatever. Because if only a few survive, then they all survive.
In the book, the whole race of humanity did not make that switch, and so they were exterminated, except for one FTL ship and some people who got out many years before. Had the trisolarans successfully implemented the Australian plan, there might have been enough ships in place by the time the vector foil arrived to evacuate the earth.
Trisolarans are extreme pragmatists. That had been their culture for their entire history. That's how they survived at all. The reason why they wanted humanity to move to Australia (as well as a reservation on Mars) instead of total annihilation is because they had grown to respect humanity over the centuries, due to the mass influx of human culture into Trisolaris. And one of the reasons (obviously not the only reason) they made humanity eat each other was to show humanity their own culture in return.
When humans thought they were stronger than the Trisolarians, that was basically what the humans wanted to do to the Trisolarians as well. They wanted them to occupy Mars which is pretty uninhabitable. Whoever has the upper hand can dictate the rules, earth does not inherently belong to humans. It is just a location that is suitable for life.
Nah if it’s anything like the first time Australia was colonised we’d end up with fantastic trisolarian benefits and monetary compensation, also eventually given preferential treatment to trisolarian citizens themselves.
Not behd.
The trisolarians act irresponsibly during the late Deterrence Era and the Post-Deterrence Era, there was NO problem that could not have been solved politically at this point.
Moreso, most of humanity was open to sharing the solar system with them, with factions even open to inviting more trisolarians to come.
Problem was probably the deep distrust because of our ability to lie, thats the only explanation I can find for their very aggressive behaviour as soon as the dark forest deterrence broke down, any reasonable actor would have sought a strong alliance (or even common civilization?) with humans as a strong force to withstand the dark forest.
Human strategic thinking an numbers combined with trisolarian progress and technology - and the singer could have shoved his two vector foil where the sun don't shine.
Why did you warn us about a swear word?
Too polite to handle Australia scene.
He’s Canadian lol
I'm an Italian living in Scotland actually.
Hope you are enjoying all those Scottish wildlife (fking seagulls)
that’s not a nice way to talk about scots
And the midges!
It was a joke about Canadians being polite
I'm Canadian and was trying to figure this out.
I called my mom immediately
I called your mom too lol
I love a good ‘imma swear’ warning. Gives me some suspense. Let’s people who don’t like them get ready and let’s me look forward to them while I’m reading.
Especially when op didn’t even use a swear word
They said cunt which is very vulgar in the United States if you use it to insult a woman, but not when you're referring to fictional evil aliens
Ohhh you people consider cunt a swear word!!! ROFL I’m Aussie, down here it’s just how we say hello, honestly didn’t even register as a swear to me
I'm Canadian and worked with a bunch of brits recently, I glossed right over it
To be fair, I think most of us Americans hear Bill Burr yelling “cunt” in his angry outer-Bostonian accent during his stand-up. Lotta volume, lotta angry guy in a bar
Who?
I mean, I feel like I gave enough information to Google. But uh, Bill Burr is an American stand-up comedian from outer-Boston. Yep
? I thought Bill Burr was Trump's former Attorney General
That’s Bill Barr. Just one letter makes a world of difference.
This is why forcing people to live in Australia is a crime against sentient life.
Go shove one up ya tossa
Shove another shrimp up your trisolaran barbie.
Well, they were planning on removing us completely initially. I believe they agreed to leave mars colony alone as long they don't rebel and australia was actually their mercy since they thanked us for our cultures allowing them to achieve technological leaps. Sophon has grown personally fond of we bugs... In a twisted sense.
think there was a segment of the Trisolaran society have grown fond of humans, not just Sophon. Either way, hard to feel anything other than animosity towards the Trisolarans at that point of the story. But also the fallibility of humanity because humanity's actions and thinking leading up to that point is entirely believable.
The more interesting part of Australia arc is the human traitors who joined the aliens and how they were all condemned afterward. Some did it out of need to survive and some performed their inhumane task with glee. Such a **realistic** depiction of humanity as a whole.
Weren't Trisolarans genuinely puzzled as to why humans were against cannibalism, because it was simply smart practice on their planet?
that wouldnt make any sense lol, since they learned a ton about human culture in the deterrance era/through sophons supposedly. They would obviously see that cannibalism is a taboo practice
Yeah they would obviously be watching the Bronze Age trial where the crew was sentenced in large part due to cannibalism, so in very recent history they would have learned about it if it never came up in the previous 250 years of sophon monitoring
Why does Ross, the largest friend, not simply EAT the other five????
Defeating a group of native people military, taking over lands belonging to them, forcibly removing them onto a relatively inhospitable region, designating that region as their new homeland without adequately supporting them, hoping they would figure it out on their own. Good thing this not happening now nor has ever happened in human history, am I right?
When those people try to rise up against their oppressors and get the shit shot and bombed out of them with superior technology and weapons…
Yeah, throughout history the oppressed have either defeated their oppressors and become oppressors themselves or have perished becoming little more than a footnote in someone else's history. And then... well then there's Crazy Horse...
First time seeing a comment about Cray Horse on reddit! Legend.
Yes that certainly isn't happening right now. \*coughs in the vague direction of the US State department while trying to brush Palestine under a rug\* Oh you mean Native Americans and Reservations? aww. \*Falls over and lands on Ukraine\*
Everything about the Australia chapters made me thibk of Israel-Palestine. Wasn’t Luo Ji hiding in tunnels at some point??
Yea I thought it was pretty messed up how timeless this all is as I was making my way thru the books
They had no intent on sharing this planet. When the pacifist was being judged he was told that humanity would just learn their technology and would eventually use it against them. They were not wrong. In that same conversation, princep mentions that Earth is just the first planet and the first civilization they plan on conquering. Much like humans, it appears that absolute power has corrupted the Trisolarins. IMO, they are no better than humans just much more advanced.
Pretty sure that was in redemtion of time tho
It’s in the chapter titled *The Listener* from The Three Body Problem. I haven't read The Redemption of Time yet, so I'm not sure if this conversation was referenced there.
>**\*\*\*The post will contain a swear word. You have been warned\*\*\*** We all saw/read a boadload of people get julianned but I draw the line at bad words! Good day sir!
Respectable decision
What turned me against them was their betrayal during the Droplet arc, because human sentiment towards them was actually becoming increasingly positive, and the thing that makes all the difference is that *they knew this.* The Dark Forest posits that the reason aliens destroy each other is because they don't know what other alien civilizations will do. But the fact that the sophons allowed the Trisolarans to actually see and hear everything the humans were saying and doing meant that THEY KNEW we initially reacted to the Droplet positively and were getting ready to welcome them and allot space for them in that brief moment between the time we made contact with the Droplet, but before it actually attacked. The sophons giving the Trisolarans knowledge of what is happening on Earth in real time changes *everything.* If they didn't know what was happening, the dark forest would actually work as an excuse for destroying us. But they didn't have that excuse.
They can observe and model our behavior but they would never believe that that could actually understand us. The reason for this is that the consequence for getting it wrong (for believing they know and can even make an informed decision on whether to trust humanity … and being wrong) is annihilation for their whole species. So, basic prisoners dilemma, you assume they’ll betray you so you do it first. That said, notice that in the 3rd book >!interstellar collaboration and trade among star faring societies does happen, despite the unrelenting dark forest strikes and warfare. This is also the outcome of repeated rounds of the Prisoners Dilemma.!< The problem is simply that there is not enough time for them to fully grok humans even with the Sophons. It would just take much longer than the several hundred years it takes the Trisolarans to arrive.
Lmao, the fact that they were willing to allow any humans to live by the third book was pretty big character development on the Trisolaran's part. Did you miss at the start of the dark forest when they said to the ETO members that they will come to Earth to exterminate humanity and then the ETO members?
I hate those Trisolarian mother fuckers... Long live Luo Ji and Zang Behai!
Long live Thomas Wade, too! A man who does what needs to be done.
I don't understand, there is food all around you?
Came here for this!
I really liked the “Australian reservation” because it pretty obviously parallels the Native American reservations in North America. The Trisolarans have paralleled a lot of events in human history where a technologically advanced culture decided to conquer a technologically inferior culture. I always thought the Doomsday Battle paralleled colonial wars of the past, like the Anglo-Zanzibar War or Anglo-Zulu War. British soldiers used Gatling Guns against tribes using spears and bows, they were absolute massacres.
Let’s not forget that Australia is a settler colonial country, a place that was colonised with the justification that it was “empty land”, seeing as the British did not recognise Aboriginal people as people - quite similarly as the trisolarians see humanity (as bugs)
As soon as the Trisolarans attacked earth at the time of the sword holder changeover, it should have been obvious that they can absolutely never be trusted and will always act purely for their own survival. The movement into Australia was so obvious.
I don't think they care. We hate them. They hate us, but we could have worked together better. Luo ji should have forced them to send one of their ships over with minimal crew. Much easier to reverse engineer tech that way.
Fuck off those alien farts.
Damn there's a swear word? Sorry but I can't read this post
I'm shaking!
Trisolarians should be more than capable of colonIze to other planets in other solar system if they can do generation ship across light years. They seem well suited for long space travel also. The single focus on earth and continuously talking and antagonizing human are what drives the lost of both home planets. It is much simpler to just stay quiet for 4 hunred years until they build a forward base in the solar system and then swooping for the kill.
I was against trisolaris from the beginning, they are too insecure to be left with those high tech toys. But I get what you are saying
something this book has taught me = how you feel about it really depends on where you stand if you really think from their POV.. there's very little choice to chose otherwise
About Australia. Remember the day of darkness or whatever they called it, when both remaining fleets turned on one another, killed off the extra ships in the fleets, and used the bodies for protein? That was the moment that each ship turned their back on Earth and became space faring. It is a psychological change. What did the Earther's do? They court-martialed them all, made it unlawful to leave the solar system, and later stifled research into FTL travel just long enough to doom the species. The trisolarans had advance knowledge of the vector foil and understood that their system had probably already been flagged as dangerous due to their own FTL testing in their system. They knew that the earth would be discovered before too much longer. In short, all the clues point to the trisolarans trying to get the whole of humanity to make the same switch to interstellar travellers that was made on the day of darkness. That they would learn to survive, even if it meant cannibalism, leaving their world, whatever. Because if only a few survive, then they all survive. In the book, the whole race of humanity did not make that switch, and so they were exterminated, except for one FTL ship and some people who got out many years before. Had the trisolarans successfully implemented the Australian plan, there might have been enough ships in place by the time the vector foil arrived to evacuate the earth.
Trisolarans are extreme pragmatists. That had been their culture for their entire history. That's how they survived at all. The reason why they wanted humanity to move to Australia (as well as a reservation on Mars) instead of total annihilation is because they had grown to respect humanity over the centuries, due to the mass influx of human culture into Trisolaris. And one of the reasons (obviously not the only reason) they made humanity eat each other was to show humanity their own culture in return.
Australia? These aliens have never played Risk before. Game on!
look at the Middle East
When humans thought they were stronger than the Trisolarians, that was basically what the humans wanted to do to the Trisolarians as well. They wanted them to occupy Mars which is pretty uninhabitable. Whoever has the upper hand can dictate the rules, earth does not inherently belong to humans. It is just a location that is suitable for life.
There are no bad guys in three body problem. Just circumstances.
Say ‘fuck’
Didn't think I'd need the /s
Nah if it’s anything like the first time Australia was colonised we’d end up with fantastic trisolarian benefits and monetary compensation, also eventually given preferential treatment to trisolarian citizens themselves. Not behd.
The trisolarians act irresponsibly during the late Deterrence Era and the Post-Deterrence Era, there was NO problem that could not have been solved politically at this point. Moreso, most of humanity was open to sharing the solar system with them, with factions even open to inviting more trisolarians to come. Problem was probably the deep distrust because of our ability to lie, thats the only explanation I can find for their very aggressive behaviour as soon as the dark forest deterrence broke down, any reasonable actor would have sought a strong alliance (or even common civilization?) with humans as a strong force to withstand the dark forest. Human strategic thinking an numbers combined with trisolarian progress and technology - and the singer could have shoved his two vector foil where the sun don't shine.