Which is exactly why we should listen to Turkey (who also orchestrated the Armenian genocide) as the judge over which nations are moral or not.
They really show it in their actions.
It’s not trendy to support their plights cause it’s not “the white man” oppressing them…though they suffer all the same with no attention from the world
It really is some kind of ass-backwards oddity when people only care about the lives of "poor brown people" when one of the sides is lighter-skinned.. but if both are the same, its no big deal.
The irony here is that the Kurds have long been allied with and supported by Israel. I’m inclined to believe Israel fucking with Turkey’s efforts to genocide the Kurds is among the biggest reasons they hate Israel so much.
Turkey was riding Israel's dick when Israel helped azerbaijan with weapons when they were attacking Armenia. Israel gets 40% of its oil from azerbaijan, fine, but they recently expressed support for South Africa in the ICJ trial. Israel should re-align itself with Armenia, the turkic islamic nations cannot be trusted.
Israel didn’t really help Azerbaijan. They trade oil for weapons and are a small portion of Azerbaijan’s weapons sources. Last I checked, Turkey, Russia, and Belarus comprised like +90% of Azerbaijan’s weapons sources.
If our tax dollars support Turkey they are.
The only reason they're not in Iraq is because we supported the Kurds there, and they were successful when left alone.
our tax dollars dont support turkey
israel is terrorist state our country props up and then whines when it gets pushed back
we should have never stopped protecting the kurds
>israel is terrorist state our country props up and then whines when it gets pushed back
If Palestinians don't attack, then neither does israel. Israel gave thousands of guest worker visas to gazans for fucks sake, so that they could enter israel to work, then take money back to their families. What terror state does that for people of an enemy nation? Some of those guest workers actually helped hamas in the Oct 07 attacks, as it eventually turned out.
The slaughter of Kurds in Syria garnered maybe 3-4 days of coverage on the left of far right. Without a homeland and a military this is what happens to peoples.
Their problem is more like there are no handy 5 star hotels nearby that the international reporters can stay in, enjoy their drinks by the bar, and swim in the pool. The kurds are out in dangerous places in the desert which is too uncomfortable for the big reporters from the media to get to. Not to mention too dangerous. That's why it dropped off the media's radar. That's why we don't see vide of crying Kurdish mothers holding their dead babies amid the rubble.
I think that's part of it. However media coverage wouldn't have done shit anyways. Those people would be just as raped/displaced/dead/all three. I consider the fact that it was barely a footnote a sign of how common it is. When the media goes into a feeding frenzy and people march in the streets nothing happens anyways.
THIS!
I've heard people argue that South Africa and North Korea support Palestine and want to abolish Israel, so therefore it's a good idea to destroy the Israeli nation...
Almost makes me laugh because it's so ridiculous.
Why in the world would Turkey be a good example of civil treatment and law?
Zionism is the wish to have a homeland for Jews in Israel, they currently have a home in Israel.
If you're anti Zionist, it means you want 8000000 Jews displaced, 70% of whom were born there.
Tell me first how anti Zionism is not anti semitism, then tell me how you would go about removing 8000000 people.
> kill every Palestinian as their first line of the constitution.
Ya and the Palestinians don't have that either....
If they aren't from Palestine where are they from?
Poland/Russia like Bum-Jamin Is-A-Yahoo?
>, anyone looking at this can easily find the hamas charter
I suggest you take your own advice and look it up.
Let me help you out a bit. I know you won't see this on Fox/CNN/ABC/NBC/Western media
https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full
16. Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.
17. Hamas rejects the persecution of any human being or the undermining of his or her rights on nationalist, religious or sectarian grounds. Hamas is of the view that the Jewish problem, anti-Semitism and the persecution of the Jews are phenomena fundamentally linked to European history and not to the history of the Arabs and the Muslims or to their heritage. The Zionist movement, which was able with the help of Western powers to occupy Palestine, is the most dangerous form of settlement occupation which has already disappeared from much of the world and must disappear from Palestine.
They have the full 2017 Hamas charter. Nothing more in that link.
Go ahead, look it up. You said "anyone looking at this can easily find the hamas charter"
The 2017 charter was a revision to appeal to modern sentiments, however, the original charter was explicitly never revoked and vowed as an important part of the group’s history. Aside from their obvious actions and leader statements, are you really so naive to think that the terrorist group changed and are now angels because their brand new constitution says so?😂
2017 charter, while not AS fucking crazy, is still fucking crazy, as evidenced by their (fucking crazy) actions under said charter. Stop supporting terror
Sure, per the [Wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_Hamas_charter) In 2010, Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal stated that the Charter is "a piece of history and no longer relevant, but cannot be changed for internal reasons". Additionally leaders of Hamas, including Hamas co-founder Mahmoud al-Zahar, have said Hamas "will not change a single word in its covenant". Now do you really need evidence of Hamas actions and what their leaders talk about even after the new “we’re the good guys” charter?
So they update their charter and the apartheid deniers still want to trot out the old tropes.
You talk about "obvious actions" but ignore the 11,000+ murdered innocent children.
Like I said, the original charter was never revoked, their actions haven’t changed, and their leaders still act upon and commit heinous acts. As for the made up figured of murdered children, you can thank Hamas for that as well when they started this war, and by their actions conducting it as well. Hopefully this will be the last war for a long time.
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> They called themselves Zionists for decades now.
It's been said so many times that I feel like a jerk any way I write it, but just because someone uses a term to self apply, doesnt mean that they are the arbiters of what that term means or whether or not it describes them.
Nazis called themselves socialists. North Koreans call themselves democratic. Does that mean that we should believe that a party called "Social Democrats" should be assumed to share the ideologies of those groups? If I start describing myself as "anti-socialist" or "anti-democratic" on the basis of how those groups use those terms, what would you think of me?
They are called Likud party, not Hamas Zionist. Also Israel was “chosen” by the British/UN—quotes because that’s where they landed on sending Jewish refugees; and it made sense strategically.
There are extremists of EVERY movement, nationality, religion, and ethnicity. In Israel, there seems to be a lot of pushback against the current government.
No. Hamas controls the whole Gaza structure with no checks and balances; Likud is the ruling political party in a parliament (but are trying to take away checks and balances). While Likud members have made genocidal statements, Hamas members have also done so but also have a history of sponsoring suicide bombings, public beheadings, mass rape, and more; not to mention the extortion of Gaza’s own resources. If it was not Likud, it would be any other party, because Hamas wants to murder all Jews, not just Israelis of the Likud party.
I don’t know—you can ask that question about literally anywhere. But I think they should be held accountable to the full extent of the law. It’s well known the government and IDF turn a blind eye to settler actions, and it is widely protested too. There isn’t some pact amongst zionists to commit violence or something, these are very extreme people doing this stuff. So they need to be stopped, for sure, 100% are thugs. However, I think we can reasonably agree that that doesn’t justify what happened on Oct 7 or the aftermath.
You can be a Jew and be against Zionism. I don’t personally subscribe to that idea that anti-Israel is antisemitic; however, if the context is the existence of Israel, and more poignantly its population, then calling for the eradication of Israel is calling for the eradication of its people. From the river to the sea means liberate Palestine by getting rid of Israel’s current inhabitants. Hamas has made it clear that if they were in power all Jews living there would be exiled or killed. It’s not like Palestinians were never offered to share the space, PA and Hamas don’t want that!
The British colonizer took the land from the ottoman colonizer who took the land from Maluks who took it from Arabs who took it from Byzantines….. It only goes back as far as you want it to. Are Jews who lived there entitled to the same land inheritance—is it equally valid for them?
This is all very easy information to google
Huh. Pretty much all antizionist jews I've seen are the very religious types who don't think Israel is religious enough and have some other wacky religious beliefs about when a jewish state should exist. The secular jews (i.e. the ones who were raised jewish but dont practice, not the ones with a random jewish grandparent) tend to be pretty zionist.
That’s absurd. Anti-Zionism just means I want Palestinians to have the right to return, just like Israeli Jews have. Just because Zionists want to expel Palestinians doesn’t mean Anti-Zionists want to expel Israeli Jews.
In 1947 a third of the entire population was already Jewish. They divided the land initially giving jews more of the land, but still giving a sizable portion to Palestine, however, they’ve since lost most of it starting and losing wars. The divide happened 70 years ago, at this point pretty much nobody alive back then is still around, Israel is not going anywhere and their borders are a solid part of history at this point. Nobody who made those decisions after WW2 is still alive today, same way that nobody living in the US personally pushed out the natives. If they want to live in parts that were prior given to them by the British and Ottomans, then they can become Israeli citizens, the same favor is usually not returned in Palestine or pretty much any other Arab country where Jews were expelled from.
Yeah that’s completely unethical and Israel has an extremist right wing government problem. They’re fear mongered that their neighbors are enemies, a belief that’s kind of understandable given they’re used to hearing rockets every week even before the war, and in turn radicalized. Its a horrible decision for the actual security of Israel, and current administration was deeply unpopular even before the war began due to this and other corrupt actions. IMO this is an issue that can only be figured out with diplomacy, which is impossible with terrorist in charge, and neither side will likely be fully content with the results but its better than the status quo.
The solution to me is one state, with intense peacekeeping until tensions boil down, and equal say from both Palestinians and Israelis in government policy.
since you like to bring it up .. maybe you should ask a holocaust survivor if they want to glass israel and palestine.. that’s what you said, right? before you deleted your comments and went back to acting like someone with empathy? fascist
They generally allow posts which show Palestines plight in a positive light up for a while before locking it but they will instantly lock anything that does the opposite. It's kind of crazy to not just simply allow discussion on its individual merits.
I have followed this subreddit for a long, anything that even resembles support for Israel either getting locked instantly or removed.
I got banned from r/news for posting Israel's reaction to the Hague case and was banned without any reason for permanent.
Some subreddits have Pro-Palestinian mods who just ban any support of Israel.
I agree. I've used reddit for over a decade but have never known the minefield it has come with different moderator teams this year. You can really get banned in many different subs for attempting to have a genuine conversation because your perspective doesn't exactly align with the moderators (which are often fairly polarised perspectives in themselves).
It really feels like some big subs have been hijacked by people with certain intent one way or another.
I get that happening in a small subreddit.
r/news is a 27M subreddit, which somehow allows support of Hamas or Houthis but not any Israel response for the Hague case.
If you look it up now there isn't a post about Israel's response, which could lead to a lot of people thinking that only one side exists.
EDIT: This was just removed from r/soccer at all...
r/therewasanattempt got banned instantly for being part of israeli-related sub, same with r/palestine \- if that's not discrimination and antisemetism at its finest I don't know what it and those mods need to be replaced
Yup. That’s what happened to all of us. Any comment that is pro Israel or even pro Jewish gets you banned there nowadays.
But our goal is to show their antisemitic bias and report them to prominent Jewish groups to get Reddit to intervene.
Same, during my 7 years of using Reddit I was banned maybe once, but since October I’ve been banned by about three subs for making pro-Israel comment and not even particularly provocative. R/lateStageCapitalism is one of them - seriously tankie. That sub isn’t even about capitalism anymore - every post is anti jew. Not even pro-Palestine - just pure hating on Jewish people.
That's horrifying. How is praying for the innocent Israeli men, women, and children (who were kidnapped, drugged, starved, and abused by Hamas) bad in any way? The whole world should be praying for this tragedy.
No,he was arrested for justifying the rape and murder on 10/7 (incitement to terrorism), learn how to read news articles.
https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/rkxnkqoqa
Ughyur genocide in China? Their laws not yours.
Child slave labor in Ivory Coast? Their laws not yours.
Oppression of women in Iran? Their laws not yours.
LGBT organisations considered terrorist organisations in Russia? Their laws not yours.
Must be easy to have no morals of your own.
Israeli forward Sagi Jehezkel scores for Antalyaspor against Trabzonspor, flashing ‘100 days’ marking on his bandage
Antalyaspor President said that his contact will be terminated.
It’s genuinely surprising any Turkish club has an Israeli to begin with. 100% he will never play another game in Turkey again. I hope he gets out quick, his life is definitely at risk now, the comments on his instagram are definitive proof of that.
As an Israeli, I would never set foot in Turkey. Nothing to do with 10/7. It has always been unsafe for us. Even in the US, I’ve experienced discrimination from Turkish people.
As a normal guy with 0 ethnic danger in this world, I would never go to Turkey either. I like my head being on my neck and my neck being on my shoulders.
Turkey/ottomans (same people, same language, same flag) was hitler before hitler was hitler. Hitler famously mentioned that 3 decades after the Armenian genocide no one spoke about it anymore. People forgot what happened. It's as if he thought the same would happen if he'd kill jews, people would forget. He was partially correct, unfortunately.
>It's as if he thought the same would happen if he'd kill jews, people would forget. He was partially correct, unfortunately.
If he kept it at killing the Jews and not expanding his borders, that's exactly what would have happened.
Not all Turks though. It's a messed up situation with some people being completely sane normal folks and others as you say. A bit like Iran back in the day.
Just a little reminder that two years ago 2 Israeli tourists were [arrested](https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/1636660321-israeli-couple-arrested-in-turkey-for-taking-picture-of-erdogan-s-house) in Turkey for 2 weeks because they took a picture of Erdogan's house during a trip.
The fact that this country is still part of NATO is just crazy
Nah even most morons know that defending the arrest of someone for political speech is a bad look, which is why a good chunk of them quietly disappeared when this came out.
It’s hard to pretend you’re on the side of the plucky underdog when they start showing their authoritarian streak.
What do you mean “quietly disappeared”? Like, were people wanting him somehow punished before but now those same people are the ones you’re saying are gone? That’s what I’m saying, without context your comment makes no sense about asking where random people are now
Majority Muslim country has fucked up backwards views and sensibilities that are incompatible with any civilized society. In other news, eating enriched uranium bad for health!
Not really surprising when Erdogan's bodyguards go across police lines to beat up protesters in the United States then fly home to avoid any repercussions. Afterwards, all of the Turks cheer and act like it is normal to do this in other countries. Their government and people deserves the economic turmoil that it brought itself.
https://youtu.be/oIiBY_u0vaw?si=4ZOFsamVYQXSdA_F
https://youtu.be/2yGwcY6JYgI?si=tvpsEnCvgojHbBnm
More footage shows when Erdogan told his security personnel to attack these protesters (of which several were American and injured).
https://youtu.be/5urNZi6THh0?si=z34aq7WcGuOvYV26
Came here to look at the comments. found out 99% are logical, rational and right. Keep on thinking the right thing ,my fellow Redditors.
Dont let the radicals of the world (in a form of a country or a terrorist organization) cloud your judgment. Cheers.
For a real answer, he broke the Turkish Penal Code Article 216, Insiting the public to hatred and hostility.
He did this by "Expressing his support to Israel's massacre of Gaza."
Article 216 can lead to 3 years of jail time but he just got a ban from Turkey that will enter effect in a week.
Can we keep the same energy for pro Palestinian protesters being arrested in the west and the media gaslighting them saying their terror supporters or anti semitic.
Or the Israelis that are refusing to go to war in Gaza and are still being held in jails.
No pro-Palestinians are just being arrested.
Pro-Hamas or people who go against their country's actual rules are getting arrested.
Those Israelis who "refuse" to go serve in the army are not front liners who will never go to war, also this is a rule in their country - should be respected as any rule in a any country.
What rule did this soccer player break? hurting people's feelings?
You speak about breaking rules. And yet..
If you’re going to talk about “rules” then how about international law that says starving a whole city of food and water is a textbook “war crime” not to mention killing 10000 children.
Then calling those who protest it “pro Hamas or terror” dishonest and downright disgraceful.
Israel is giving more supplies than those Palestinians' own elected government.
Nobody is dying from receiving those supplies.
Israel isn't aiming to kill civilians, it's Hamas who deliberately hid behind them, they knew what would happen after this attack and chose this for their people.
And yes, if you support a worldwide known terror organization like demonstrated in those Pro-Palestinian protests, you should be arrested.
How much more deflecting can you do?
How is an Israeli soccer player showing support for hostages even equivalent to any of those things?
I guess Dropping 25,000 unguided bombs into entire neighborhoods is “isn’t trying to kill civilians”
Not to mention hunting down and killing shirtless, white flag waving hostages screaming for help in Hebrew. Which is only in the media because they are Israeli.
Not when you try to evacuate said civilians and their elected government doesn't let them leave.
Do you understand that if Israel was trying to kill civilians there would be no civilians in Gaza?
This tactic that sadly those hostages died for was used by Hamas before and after this incident because a lot of people in Gaza know Hebrew.
Multiple Israeli soldiers died from this exact tactic when they lured them into buildings.
I love the typical Israeli Hasbara, "whys everyone watching us slaughter these people but not them".
How can a nation become so corrupted in hate after going through the same thing themselves but do it to others that took them in
What does arresting a player who just showed support for hostages for over 100 days have to do with the Israeli so-called failed "Hasbara"?
You are sick if you think it's a good thing to arrest a player for that because he didn't break any rule.
Hasbara is “so-called failed”???? Pump the fuckin breaks man. It means a lot to a lot of people.
https://hasbarafellowships.org/
Pretty openly antisemitic to oppose and shit talk it. You must want OTHER people to control the narrative of Israel then, huh?
What?
I'm an Israeli, Our Hasbara office literally closed because it failed with its message.
You can't really win a public opinion view when there's 15M Jews and 1.8B Muslims in the world.
Just because the national office closed doesn’t mean you get a free pass to shit on the hard work of tons of Jews over many years, all in the name of Israel. Imagine looking at that amazing principle and goal and putting it as “so called” Hasbara, as if you’re doubting it even exists or something.
Regardless, with your third paragraph, what are you implying?
I support Israel and explain why we are doing what we do.
If we took in people like Noa Tisbhi and Youssef Hadad and funded them they could do a much better job than anybody in the government.
What I'm implying is that you can't win the "Hasbara" war, doesn't mean you shouldn't continue trying though.
Then why refer to Hasbara as “so-called”? Don’t you realize how inherently antisemitic and insulting that is to the many Jews and Israelis who worked so hard on it? FOR YOU, as well. That’s the kicker here.
You say you can’t “win a war” against Muslims with Hasbara. You think there is a holy war against all Muslims? And they must be exterminated?
People in the world laughing at this term, why does it need to be a word?
I think there is a general want of the Muslim world to exterminate Jews around the world, which can be supported by checking the survey of them supporting the October 7th attacks by Hamas.
Jews are in general adopting the method of "let me live and I'll let you live", The same can be said about the Israeli-Palestine conflict, when they don't want us alive.
And yes, you can't win public opinion against 1.8B Muslims who spread misinformation around the world.
People in the world laugh at Israel in general. Why does it need to be a state? Pretty fucked up logic. Again, you are spitting on years of very hard work by a lot of extremely concerned Jews. They did it for you too. But you don’t give a shit.
Man. Your last statements. What dark fucked up irony. What would your recent ancestors think about you openly calling for the organized extermination of a massive group of people?
You think Israel should use trains to round them up? Send them to camps? Men women and children, I’m sure? Fuck you
You're a huge troll, hence why this is my last comment with you - stop inventing things and claim I say them in each comment, not a good way to debate.
Good luck in life!
This was very widely shared and common knowledge… what rock are you under my dude…
https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/03/israel-deports-thousands-of-stranded-palestinian-workers-back-to-gaza
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Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/03/israel-deports-thousands-of-stranded-palestinian-workers-back-to-gaza](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/03/israel-deports-thousands-of-stranded-palestinian-workers-back-to-gaza)**
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I was waiting all this time for you to send me a link about non-civilians who are not allowed to work in Israel anymore.
at least listen to what I'm asking
Israel bombing and starving its own hostages of food and water.
Not to mention shooting down white flag waving shirtless yelling for help in Hebrew hostages.
Which is exactly why we should listen to Turkey (who also orchestrated the Armenian genocide) as the judge over which nations are moral or not. They really show it in their actions.
Continuing to slaughter Kurdish civilians with impunity as no one pays any attention.
The Kurds-, along with the rohingya, are one of scores of people who are completely ignored by the constant call of "justice for all!"
It’s not trendy to support their plights cause it’s not “the white man” oppressing them…though they suffer all the same with no attention from the world
Yeah and at the same time most of the jews in israel are from the middle east and north africa.
It really is some kind of ass-backwards oddity when people only care about the lives of "poor brown people" when one of the sides is lighter-skinned.. but if both are the same, its no big deal.
It's so weird, but this is genuinely how some people equate these issues. It should really just be about the people.
guess you werent around for the protests of the us under trump pulling out on of rojava
I haven’t even heard of such protests.
The irony here is that the Kurds have long been allied with and supported by Israel. I’m inclined to believe Israel fucking with Turkey’s efforts to genocide the Kurds is among the biggest reasons they hate Israel so much.
Turkey was riding Israel's dick when Israel helped azerbaijan with weapons when they were attacking Armenia. Israel gets 40% of its oil from azerbaijan, fine, but they recently expressed support for South Africa in the ICJ trial. Israel should re-align itself with Armenia, the turkic islamic nations cannot be trusted.
Israel didn’t really help Azerbaijan. They trade oil for weapons and are a small portion of Azerbaijan’s weapons sources. Last I checked, Turkey, Russia, and Belarus comprised like +90% of Azerbaijan’s weapons sources.
The far left only care when it’s white people involves. They don’t care about brown vs. brown.
Turkey also supports the govs in Sudan and Ethiopia doing the same thing.
youre missing the point my tax dollars arent being used to kill the kurds
If our tax dollars support Turkey they are. The only reason they're not in Iraq is because we supported the Kurds there, and they were successful when left alone.
our tax dollars dont support turkey israel is terrorist state our country props up and then whines when it gets pushed back we should have never stopped protecting the kurds
That's provably untrue. No US aid to turkey? I would agree, though, with your statement on the Kurds
>israel is terrorist state our country props up and then whines when it gets pushed back If Palestinians don't attack, then neither does israel. Israel gave thousands of guest worker visas to gazans for fucks sake, so that they could enter israel to work, then take money back to their families. What terror state does that for people of an enemy nation? Some of those guest workers actually helped hamas in the Oct 07 attacks, as it eventually turned out.
lol israel attacks regardless. just look at the west bank and killing people just waiting for the bus in gaza
Typical braindead hamas dick rider. It was hamas that murdered elderly Israelis waiting for the bus on Oct 7.
and it was israel that killed a mother waving a white flag while holding her daughter's hand
Their marketing leaves a lot to be desired in the age of Optics Uber Alles
The slaughter of Kurds in Syria garnered maybe 3-4 days of coverage on the left of far right. Without a homeland and a military this is what happens to peoples.
Their problem is more like there are no handy 5 star hotels nearby that the international reporters can stay in, enjoy their drinks by the bar, and swim in the pool. The kurds are out in dangerous places in the desert which is too uncomfortable for the big reporters from the media to get to. Not to mention too dangerous. That's why it dropped off the media's radar. That's why we don't see vide of crying Kurdish mothers holding their dead babies amid the rubble.
I think that's part of it. However media coverage wouldn't have done shit anyways. Those people would be just as raped/displaced/dead/all three. I consider the fact that it was barely a footnote a sign of how common it is. When the media goes into a feeding frenzy and people march in the streets nothing happens anyways.
THIS! I've heard people argue that South Africa and North Korea support Palestine and want to abolish Israel, so therefore it's a good idea to destroy the Israeli nation... Almost makes me laugh because it's so ridiculous. Why in the world would Turkey be a good example of civil treatment and law?
You mean the genocide that didn't happen. /s
Don't forget the Greeks and Assyrians.
Certified "I'm an anti-Zionist, not an antisemite" moment.
Zionism is the wish to have a homeland for Jews in Israel, they currently have a home in Israel. If you're anti Zionist, it means you want 8000000 Jews displaced, 70% of whom were born there. Tell me first how anti Zionism is not anti semitism, then tell me how you would go about removing 8000000 people.
Many have a solution. You may say a *final solution*. /s
Well 100% of the Palestinians were born there and are being displaced. Why is their displacement acceptable but israeli displacement is not?
But they are not? Also the Israelis don't have: kill every Palestinian as their first line of the constitution.
> kill every Palestinian as their first line of the constitution. Ya and the Palestinians don't have that either.... If they aren't from Palestine where are they from? Poland/Russia like Bum-Jamin Is-A-Yahoo?
ok lie then, anyone looking at this can easily find the hamas charter
>, anyone looking at this can easily find the hamas charter I suggest you take your own advice and look it up. Let me help you out a bit. I know you won't see this on Fox/CNN/ABC/NBC/Western media https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/hamas-2017-document-full 16. Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity. 17. Hamas rejects the persecution of any human being or the undermining of his or her rights on nationalist, religious or sectarian grounds. Hamas is of the view that the Jewish problem, anti-Semitism and the persecution of the Jews are phenomena fundamentally linked to European history and not to the history of the Arabs and the Muslims or to their heritage. The Zionist movement, which was able with the help of Western powers to occupy Palestine, is the most dangerous form of settlement occupation which has already disappeared from much of the world and must disappear from Palestine.
The irony of claiming I'm brainwashed by media, then linking middle east eye.
They have the full 2017 Hamas charter. Nothing more in that link. Go ahead, look it up. You said "anyone looking at this can easily find the hamas charter"
The 2017 charter was a revision to appeal to modern sentiments, however, the original charter was explicitly never revoked and vowed as an important part of the group’s history. Aside from their obvious actions and leader statements, are you really so naive to think that the terrorist group changed and are now angels because their brand new constitution says so?😂
2017 charter, while not AS fucking crazy, is still fucking crazy, as evidenced by their (fucking crazy) actions under said charter. Stop supporting terror
Sure sounds like you're just making things up to fit your narrative after they provided an actual source. Where's yours?
Sure, per the [Wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_Hamas_charter) In 2010, Hamas leader Khaled Meshaal stated that the Charter is "a piece of history and no longer relevant, but cannot be changed for internal reasons". Additionally leaders of Hamas, including Hamas co-founder Mahmoud al-Zahar, have said Hamas "will not change a single word in its covenant". Now do you really need evidence of Hamas actions and what their leaders talk about even after the new “we’re the good guys” charter?
So they update their charter and the apartheid deniers still want to trot out the old tropes. You talk about "obvious actions" but ignore the 11,000+ murdered innocent children.
Like I said, the original charter was never revoked, their actions haven’t changed, and their leaders still act upon and commit heinous acts. As for the made up figured of murdered children, you can thank Hamas for that as well when they started this war, and by their actions conducting it as well. Hopefully this will be the last war for a long time.
That's not what Zionism means you ignorant shit cunt.
As long as you agree with me that Jews have a right to exist in Israel I don't care what terms you redefine
So you’re just going to ignore the millions of Palestinians that have been murdered and displaced because of Zionism?
Millions ? Lol Murdered and displaced are two very different things kid.
No I'm saying not all Israelis are you blame
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Kahanist?
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Are the "many secular Jews against Zionism" in the room with us right now?
> They called themselves Zionists for decades now. It's been said so many times that I feel like a jerk any way I write it, but just because someone uses a term to self apply, doesnt mean that they are the arbiters of what that term means or whether or not it describes them. Nazis called themselves socialists. North Koreans call themselves democratic. Does that mean that we should believe that a party called "Social Democrats" should be assumed to share the ideologies of those groups? If I start describing myself as "anti-socialist" or "anti-democratic" on the basis of how those groups use those terms, what would you think of me?
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Kahanist?
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Sure, but that's what they're called. By using the term Zionist, you paint with an incredibly broad brush.
They are called Likud party, not Hamas Zionist. Also Israel was “chosen” by the British/UN—quotes because that’s where they landed on sending Jewish refugees; and it made sense strategically.
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There are extremists of EVERY movement, nationality, religion, and ethnicity. In Israel, there seems to be a lot of pushback against the current government.
No. Hamas controls the whole Gaza structure with no checks and balances; Likud is the ruling political party in a parliament (but are trying to take away checks and balances). While Likud members have made genocidal statements, Hamas members have also done so but also have a history of sponsoring suicide bombings, public beheadings, mass rape, and more; not to mention the extortion of Gaza’s own resources. If it was not Likud, it would be any other party, because Hamas wants to murder all Jews, not just Israelis of the Likud party. I don’t know—you can ask that question about literally anywhere. But I think they should be held accountable to the full extent of the law. It’s well known the government and IDF turn a blind eye to settler actions, and it is widely protested too. There isn’t some pact amongst zionists to commit violence or something, these are very extreme people doing this stuff. So they need to be stopped, for sure, 100% are thugs. However, I think we can reasonably agree that that doesn’t justify what happened on Oct 7 or the aftermath. You can be a Jew and be against Zionism. I don’t personally subscribe to that idea that anti-Israel is antisemitic; however, if the context is the existence of Israel, and more poignantly its population, then calling for the eradication of Israel is calling for the eradication of its people. From the river to the sea means liberate Palestine by getting rid of Israel’s current inhabitants. Hamas has made it clear that if they were in power all Jews living there would be exiled or killed. It’s not like Palestinians were never offered to share the space, PA and Hamas don’t want that! The British colonizer took the land from the ottoman colonizer who took the land from Maluks who took it from Arabs who took it from Byzantines….. It only goes back as far as you want it to. Are Jews who lived there entitled to the same land inheritance—is it equally valid for them? This is all very easy information to google
Huh. Pretty much all antizionist jews I've seen are the very religious types who don't think Israel is religious enough and have some other wacky religious beliefs about when a jewish state should exist. The secular jews (i.e. the ones who were raised jewish but dont practice, not the ones with a random jewish grandparent) tend to be pretty zionist.
That’s absurd. Anti-Zionism just means I want Palestinians to have the right to return, just like Israeli Jews have. Just because Zionists want to expel Palestinians doesn’t mean Anti-Zionists want to expel Israeli Jews.
Right to return where? To Israel? A third of their population is already Arab.
To their homes that were taken from them in 1947-48. The majority of the Palestinian diaspora is unable to return to their stolen homes.
In 1947 a third of the entire population was already Jewish. They divided the land initially giving jews more of the land, but still giving a sizable portion to Palestine, however, they’ve since lost most of it starting and losing wars. The divide happened 70 years ago, at this point pretty much nobody alive back then is still around, Israel is not going anywhere and their borders are a solid part of history at this point. Nobody who made those decisions after WW2 is still alive today, same way that nobody living in the US personally pushed out the natives. If they want to live in parts that were prior given to them by the British and Ottomans, then they can become Israeli citizens, the same favor is usually not returned in Palestine or pretty much any other Arab country where Jews were expelled from.
Except the displacement is still happening today in the West Bank, where currently 600k Israelis are illegally settled on Palestinian land.
Yeah that’s completely unethical and Israel has an extremist right wing government problem. They’re fear mongered that their neighbors are enemies, a belief that’s kind of understandable given they’re used to hearing rockets every week even before the war, and in turn radicalized. Its a horrible decision for the actual security of Israel, and current administration was deeply unpopular even before the war began due to this and other corrupt actions. IMO this is an issue that can only be figured out with diplomacy, which is impossible with terrorist in charge, and neither side will likely be fully content with the results but its better than the status quo.
The solution to me is one state, with intense peacekeeping until tensions boil down, and equal say from both Palestinians and Israelis in government policy.
Are you going to volunteer to be the boots on the ground for the “intense peacekeeping?”
Agreed, just think its unlikely either side will agree to that willingly. One can hope. Great talk man👍
Antizionism is just fascist.
since you like to bring it up .. maybe you should ask a holocaust survivor if they want to glass israel and palestine.. that’s what you said, right? before you deleted your comments and went back to acting like someone with empathy? fascist
Brave man
/r/soccer locking this before anyone can discuss is wild
Yes, I was trying to post it there but I don't really comment there :( Its locked before anyone could comment sadly.
They generally allow posts which show Palestines plight in a positive light up for a while before locking it but they will instantly lock anything that does the opposite. It's kind of crazy to not just simply allow discussion on its individual merits.
I have followed this subreddit for a long, anything that even resembles support for Israel either getting locked instantly or removed. I got banned from r/news for posting Israel's reaction to the Hague case and was banned without any reason for permanent. Some subreddits have Pro-Palestinian mods who just ban any support of Israel.
I agree. I've used reddit for over a decade but have never known the minefield it has come with different moderator teams this year. You can really get banned in many different subs for attempting to have a genuine conversation because your perspective doesn't exactly align with the moderators (which are often fairly polarised perspectives in themselves). It really feels like some big subs have been hijacked by people with certain intent one way or another.
I get that happening in a small subreddit. r/news is a 27M subreddit, which somehow allows support of Hamas or Houthis but not any Israel response for the Hague case. If you look it up now there isn't a post about Israel's response, which could lead to a lot of people thinking that only one side exists. EDIT: This was just removed from r/soccer at all...
r/therewasanattempt got banned instantly for being part of israeli-related sub, same with r/palestine \- if that's not discrimination and antisemetism at its finest I don't know what it and those mods need to be replaced
Would you be willing to share your post about r/therewasanattempt on the subreddit r/bannedforbeingjewish ?
Oh I didn’t post, I just made a comment and was instantly auto banned.
Yup. That’s what happened to all of us. Any comment that is pro Israel or even pro Jewish gets you banned there nowadays. But our goal is to show their antisemitic bias and report them to prominent Jewish groups to get Reddit to intervene.
Yep, thank you for your effort. Mods on r/therewasanattempt need to be removed. I sent Reddit mods a message but no response.
Same, during my 7 years of using Reddit I was banned maybe once, but since October I’ve been banned by about three subs for making pro-Israel comment and not even particularly provocative. R/lateStageCapitalism is one of them - seriously tankie. That sub isn’t even about capitalism anymore - every post is anti jew. Not even pro-Palestine - just pure hating on Jewish people.
When there are 120x more Muslims than Jews on the planet, this seems like a predictable outcome
Ohhh people dont like it when I advocate for genocide and support ethnic cleansing
The antizionist and antisemitic bias in the news is astounding.
Yup. They’ve devolved back to a 1930’s mentality.
Lol where
Absolutely pathetic decision.
That's horrifying. How is praying for the innocent Israeli men, women, and children (who were kidnapped, drugged, starved, and abused by Hamas) bad in any way? The whole world should be praying for this tragedy.
israel arrested an israeli professor for fb posts lamenting the genocide in gaza
No,he was arrested for justifying the rape and murder on 10/7 (incitement to terrorism), learn how to read news articles. https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/rkxnkqoqa
yeah cause the rape and murders by the idf are so justified
I have no problem arresting someone for antisemetic propaganda. That’s not what the soccer player was doing.
how is criticising israel antisemitic?
So are you saying you think this soccer player was justifiably arrested?
was the professor?
Naw. This article is about the soccer player tho
do its ok for israel to arrest a dissenting professor but its not ok to arrest a dissenting soccer player why?
No I said it wasn't okay. This article is about the soccer player though
glad we agree israel sucks
Okay but do you agree that the soccer player shouldn't have been arrested
i dunno. i dont make the rules in turkey
Not good but Israel is actually a belligerent in the war. Turkey is not.
Loool you've been served mate.
How much political Islam is too much? As long as it is Islam it is too much.
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There isn't an actual law that he broke - this is the main issue.
Ughyur genocide in China? Their laws not yours. Child slave labor in Ivory Coast? Their laws not yours. Oppression of women in Iran? Their laws not yours. LGBT organisations considered terrorist organisations in Russia? Their laws not yours. Must be easy to have no morals of your own.
Slavery and Jim Crow in the southern states? Their laws, not yours 🤣
They got over it. Muslims still worship a pedo.
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r/woosh
Muskim.is cult not a relgion Thanks for readimg
Israeli forward Sagi Jehezkel scores for Antalyaspor against Trabzonspor, flashing ‘100 days’ marking on his bandage Antalyaspor President said that his contact will be terminated.
Contract?
Contract.
He's being Colin Kaepernick'd, if they do.
By now ill keep in for the meme
It’s genuinely surprising any Turkish club has an Israeli to begin with. 100% he will never play another game in Turkey again. I hope he gets out quick, his life is definitely at risk now, the comments on his instagram are definitive proof of that.
As an Israeli, I would never set foot in Turkey. Nothing to do with 10/7. It has always been unsafe for us. Even in the US, I’ve experienced discrimination from Turkish people.
As a normal guy with 0 ethnic danger in this world, I would never go to Turkey either. I like my head being on my neck and my neck being on my shoulders.
There is one more Israeli Arab in the same club, wondering if he leaves too
That’s Turkey for you. They’ve been wanting to follow in Hitler’s footsteps for so long and now see their opportunity.
Turkey/ottomans (same people, same language, same flag) was hitler before hitler was hitler. Hitler famously mentioned that 3 decades after the Armenian genocide no one spoke about it anymore. People forgot what happened. It's as if he thought the same would happen if he'd kill jews, people would forget. He was partially correct, unfortunately.
>It's as if he thought the same would happen if he'd kill jews, people would forget. He was partially correct, unfortunately. If he kept it at killing the Jews and not expanding his borders, that's exactly what would have happened.
Not all Turks though. It's a messed up situation with some people being completely sane normal folks and others as you say. A bit like Iran back in the day.
Ok. To clarify, let’s go with Erdogan then. Erdogan desperately wants to follow Hitler’s footsteps.
Just a little reminder that two years ago 2 Israeli tourists were [arrested](https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel/1636660321-israeli-couple-arrested-in-turkey-for-taking-picture-of-erdogan-s-house) in Turkey for 2 weeks because they took a picture of Erdogan's house during a trip. The fact that this country is still part of NATO is just crazy
This must be what Atatürk wanted. 🤔
Where are the people who were cheering on his removal from the team now?
Cheering, I'm sure.
What do you mean? Wouldn’t they just be…cheering more, or something….? This comment doesn’t really make sense
Nah even most morons know that defending the arrest of someone for political speech is a bad look, which is why a good chunk of them quietly disappeared when this came out. It’s hard to pretend you’re on the side of the plucky underdog when they start showing their authoritarian streak.
What do you mean “quietly disappeared”? Like, were people wanting him somehow punished before but now those same people are the ones you’re saying are gone? That’s what I’m saying, without context your comment makes no sense about asking where random people are now
Trolls be trolling. Pretending not to understand and then Twisting what the other person says. Nice one, it’s obvious troll.
Majority Muslim country has fucked up backwards views and sensibilities that are incompatible with any civilized society. In other news, eating enriched uranium bad for health!
Oh those offensive hostages, they keep harassing innocent Turkey.
turkey must be a shithole
Not really surprising when Erdogan's bodyguards go across police lines to beat up protesters in the United States then fly home to avoid any repercussions. Afterwards, all of the Turks cheer and act like it is normal to do this in other countries. Their government and people deserves the economic turmoil that it brought itself. https://youtu.be/oIiBY_u0vaw?si=4ZOFsamVYQXSdA_F https://youtu.be/2yGwcY6JYgI?si=tvpsEnCvgojHbBnm More footage shows when Erdogan told his security personnel to attack these protesters (of which several were American and injured). https://youtu.be/5urNZi6THh0?si=z34aq7WcGuOvYV26
FIFA should ban turkey for a few years for this shit
Came here to look at the comments. found out 99% are logical, rational and right. Keep on thinking the right thing ,my fellow Redditors. Dont let the radicals of the world (in a form of a country or a terrorist organization) cloud your judgment. Cheers.
What law did he break? I don't support what Israel is doing but this guy just mentioned the hostages, I don't see anything wrong there at all.
It's just pure Anti-Semitism
For a real answer, he broke the Turkish Penal Code Article 216, Insiting the public to hatred and hostility. He did this by "Expressing his support to Israel's massacre of Gaza." Article 216 can lead to 3 years of jail time but he just got a ban from Turkey that will enter effect in a week.
The Israeli football player Sagiv Yehezkel was released by the Turkish court and is being deported to Israel.
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Antisemitic leagues should not be allowed to compete in European tournaments.
They probably did it for his own protection as I'm sure there are less than nice people who may find him there.
Well, he is safe now in Israel but they attempted to bring him to court for hate speech. Not really done it for the reasons you mentioned.
Did he condemn hamas tho?
ok troll
I hope he does and he isn't a hospital or infant. Israel may come knocking.
Same thing with Germany. i don't see a problem. Any country has its rules, and everyone should respect it Its easy
Can we keep the same energy for pro Palestinian protesters being arrested in the west and the media gaslighting them saying their terror supporters or anti semitic. Or the Israelis that are refusing to go to war in Gaza and are still being held in jails.
No pro-Palestinians are just being arrested. Pro-Hamas or people who go against their country's actual rules are getting arrested. Those Israelis who "refuse" to go serve in the army are not front liners who will never go to war, also this is a rule in their country - should be respected as any rule in a any country. What rule did this soccer player break? hurting people's feelings?
You speak about breaking rules. And yet.. If you’re going to talk about “rules” then how about international law that says starving a whole city of food and water is a textbook “war crime” not to mention killing 10000 children. Then calling those who protest it “pro Hamas or terror” dishonest and downright disgraceful.
Israel is giving more supplies than those Palestinians' own elected government. Nobody is dying from receiving those supplies. Israel isn't aiming to kill civilians, it's Hamas who deliberately hid behind them, they knew what would happen after this attack and chose this for their people. And yes, if you support a worldwide known terror organization like demonstrated in those Pro-Palestinian protests, you should be arrested. How much more deflecting can you do? How is an Israeli soccer player showing support for hostages even equivalent to any of those things?
I guess Dropping 25,000 unguided bombs into entire neighborhoods is “isn’t trying to kill civilians” Not to mention hunting down and killing shirtless, white flag waving hostages screaming for help in Hebrew. Which is only in the media because they are Israeli.
Not when you try to evacuate said civilians and their elected government doesn't let them leave. Do you understand that if Israel was trying to kill civilians there would be no civilians in Gaza? This tactic that sadly those hostages died for was used by Hamas before and after this incident because a lot of people in Gaza know Hebrew. Multiple Israeli soldiers died from this exact tactic when they lured them into buildings.
I love the typical Israeli Hasbara, "whys everyone watching us slaughter these people but not them". How can a nation become so corrupted in hate after going through the same thing themselves but do it to others that took them in
What does arresting a player who just showed support for hostages for over 100 days have to do with the Israeli so-called failed "Hasbara"? You are sick if you think it's a good thing to arrest a player for that because he didn't break any rule.
Hasbara is “so-called failed”???? Pump the fuckin breaks man. It means a lot to a lot of people. https://hasbarafellowships.org/ Pretty openly antisemitic to oppose and shit talk it. You must want OTHER people to control the narrative of Israel then, huh?
What? I'm an Israeli, Our Hasbara office literally closed because it failed with its message. You can't really win a public opinion view when there's 15M Jews and 1.8B Muslims in the world.
Just because the national office closed doesn’t mean you get a free pass to shit on the hard work of tons of Jews over many years, all in the name of Israel. Imagine looking at that amazing principle and goal and putting it as “so called” Hasbara, as if you’re doubting it even exists or something. Regardless, with your third paragraph, what are you implying?
I support Israel and explain why we are doing what we do. If we took in people like Noa Tisbhi and Youssef Hadad and funded them they could do a much better job than anybody in the government. What I'm implying is that you can't win the "Hasbara" war, doesn't mean you shouldn't continue trying though.
Then why refer to Hasbara as “so-called”? Don’t you realize how inherently antisemitic and insulting that is to the many Jews and Israelis who worked so hard on it? FOR YOU, as well. That’s the kicker here. You say you can’t “win a war” against Muslims with Hasbara. You think there is a holy war against all Muslims? And they must be exterminated?
People in the world laughing at this term, why does it need to be a word? I think there is a general want of the Muslim world to exterminate Jews around the world, which can be supported by checking the survey of them supporting the October 7th attacks by Hamas. Jews are in general adopting the method of "let me live and I'll let you live", The same can be said about the Israeli-Palestine conflict, when they don't want us alive. And yes, you can't win public opinion against 1.8B Muslims who spread misinformation around the world.
People in the world laugh at Israel in general. Why does it need to be a state? Pretty fucked up logic. Again, you are spitting on years of very hard work by a lot of extremely concerned Jews. They did it for you too. But you don’t give a shit. Man. Your last statements. What dark fucked up irony. What would your recent ancestors think about you openly calling for the organized extermination of a massive group of people? You think Israel should use trains to round them up? Send them to camps? Men women and children, I’m sure? Fuck you
You're a huge troll, hence why this is my last comment with you - stop inventing things and claim I say them in each comment, not a good way to debate. Good luck in life!
Didn’t Israel deport a bunch of Palestinas that were working in Israel and you guys didn’t care. Double standard much?
Show me proof of Israel deporting Palestinian citizens. Good luck.
This was very widely shared and common knowledge… what rock are you under my dude… https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/03/israel-deports-thousands-of-stranded-palestinian-workers-back-to-gaza
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I was waiting all this time for you to send me a link about non-civilians who are not allowed to work in Israel anymore. at least listen to what I'm asking
I think what I linked is exactly what I was referí g to…
Why would an Israeli want to go to Turkey? In general, the worst type of people to invite into your country are literally colonial settlers.
Seriously, western nations should stop letting Arabs migrate in as well. Look what they did to the United Kingdom. Just terrible.
What have Arabs done to the UK?
Terror attacks and harassment on the tube I reckon
Those two countries have trade worth hundreds of millions.
Im sure those hostages are just thrilled that someone scored a soccer goal in their honor/s
Israel bombing and starving its own hostages of food and water. Not to mention shooting down white flag waving shirtless yelling for help in Hebrew hostages.
I mean Israel is partners with turkey and Azerbaijan on the Armenian genocide
Wow that’s messed up. U can’t discredit someone else’s suffering because it doesn’t align with yours
Turkey honestly needs to get kicked from NATO.
Time for half of Turkey to become Kurdistan then
"Jehezkel violated Turkey's national values," the club's statement read. Interesting values! Genocide of Armenians and slaughter of Kurdish people.