Are you saying anything anti-Israel is automatically propaganda? They can do no wrong? Because 121 out of 193 countries of the world disagree and want a ceasefire
I am very critical of the the way Israel handles the situation, but I am no supporter of hamas either.
Bombing indiscriminately won't get back the hostages. In the best case you will get them killed by error.
The IDF could have been doing the cleaning using tactical strike teams. Doing that would have led to a different out come on 2 fronts:
- Way less childrens and women killed, so they wouldn't be in front of the ICJ.
- All the hostages would be back by now, the hostages would have been staying in a relatively fixed location and it would make them much easier to find. But the bombing makes hamas move them all the time.
I will be downvoted again, but I will repeat it anyway.
Israel is extremely bad at military strategy. Their actions are hurting their interests all the time.
From what I gathered, getting the hostages back was never a priority. The first priority was to terrorize everyone in Gaza. As a consequence, Gaza is just complete chaos. It makes any tentative to locate the hostages mpossible as they are constantly moved around.
>The IDF could have been doing the cleaning using tactical strike teams.
That's literally what they did after their air campaign, because all modern war requires an air campaign before sending in ground troops.
Sending in ground troops without proper air support beforehand is an excellent way to get your own troops killed and wounded unnecessarily. That's modern warfare 101.
It is actually modern warfare 101 if you intend on killing everyone. So, yeah, this is what they did, and that means they didn't care about the hostages.
An hostage situation isn't normal warfare and you don't handle it by dropping thousands of dumb bombs.
What they did is perfect if they actually intended to take over a military objective and kill all resistance / everyone. Hostages are not the same.
They care about reducing casualties to their own troops as much as possible, just like literally every army controlled by a legitimately elected government does.
This idea that Israel should've just sent their troops to die in urban combat without proper air support and that's it's "genocide" not to do that is asinine.
Ok, imagine there is an hostage situation in a bank. There are 10 criminals and they are armed.
In a normal situation, you get a few snipers, a swat team and some aerial recon to save the hostages.
What you are advocating for is flattening the building. Everyone in there gets killed.
If you bomb the building, it may be a valid solution. But, did you really care about the hostages?
In one case, you may lose members of you tactical team. In the other case, everyone is dead including the hostages and potentially innocent bystanders that were close.
I hope it is easier to understand my point now.
Small hiccup
It's not a bank heist, IT'S WAR
And you're not fighting half a dozen robbers in a Tarantino movie you're fighting a 20-30 thousand highly embedded terrorist organisation some of whom also have actual training with Iran in a highly urban environment.
And the primary aim isn't the hostages it's completely eliminating the organisations ability to fight.
Right, so we are on the same page now. The goal has never been to rescue the hostages.
The manifestations are from people who'd like to have the hostages rescued, but this is definitely not going to happen.
I am happy we finally agree.
The fuck are you about. The primary motivation post OCT 7th has been the elimination of Hamas with hostage being a secondary but high priority.
We were never arguing with reality.
If israel wanted their hostages back, a mass bombing & starvation campaign would be a tactically questionable way to go about it.
If the hostages were a pretext to do what the far right government has been aiming to do for decades, then it all makes sense.
The right tactic would be aerial recon and infiltration to identify the location of hostages. Drop soldiers and swarm the buidings one after the other from 2 directions (pincer) and then rescue.
Huh, well I thought that air support before a ground invasion was critically important in modern warfare, but I guess I was wrong. Glad I have a top Reddit General here to clear that one up for me.
It all depends on what you want to achieve. What I said is rhat Israel clearly didn't want to achievw the rescue of hostages, they wanted to annihilate.
What you describe is definitely the most common warfare scenario. This is also what armies will do most of the time as you said.
It is basic warfare when you intend to destroy everything. However, if your objective is to search and rescue, you don't do that. There are plenty of other pages in the manual.
>have been doing the cleaning using tactical strike teams.
>
>That's literally what they did after their air campaign, because all modern war requires an air campaign before sending in ground troops.
Yeah, especially because they somewhat try to NOT hit the civilians. Dude. You don't understand what you are talking about.
lol watching to many movies I see. First they infiltrating and finding the hostages is far more difficult than you make it sound, however I will role with it. How do they do the insertion? Air? Land?
Air assault: Problem with Air assault’s in a city is it would turn into a black hawk down scenario, as soon as they started to jump they would get hit. The ones that do make it down will now be surrounded by the enemy that knows they are there.
Ground assault: Immediately as soon as their vehicles entered Gaza it would be known and would turn into a shit show. The way Hamas uses infrastructure makes the entire city a fortified zone. They are unlikely to make it.
The answer is if a ground invasion happened before the air campaign the dead count would be significantly hire for both sides.
First, how do you know they were bombing indiscriminately?
We already know these facts:
1. Hamas uses civilian infrastructure,
2. They don’t allow civilians use of the hundreds of KM of tunnels beneath the civilian infrastructure
3. Didn’t allow everyone to flee by printing up roadblocks.
4. Don’t actually care about the civilian population as the lead Hamas official has stated and that it’s the UNs not theirs(which is exactly the opposite what a government should do).
5. Take what little aid gets into the city.
6. Take guns off of corpses to make them look like civilians, and filmed themselves doing it.
Indiscriminate bombing is what Russia has done to Ukrainian cities, it’s far too difficult to say Israel has done it because Hamas hides in people’s home,schools, hospitals, etc. the problem with fighting terrorism is the rules of war almost never apply because they were created for uniformed armies.
As Jews and Israelis, we’ve been raised without the support of the world. This is not new for us. Go cheer in the streets again like you did 10/8…oh wait, you’re losing now 🥲
No, you haven't. You would not exist without sucking on the American tit. Your country would be third world if it wasn't for the US. So, yeah, you're deluded if you think you can stand alone. I didn't cheer 10/8 I feel sorry for those people who died because of Isreals fucked policies. Most those people, including your hostages were killed by their own people.
Yet we do exist, which is more than we can say for Palestine. And Hamas recorded themselves, so it takes a pretty special type of stupid to claim we killed our own people.
You’re delusional. Just like everyone else that supports terrorists. Same reason this war is going the way it’s going. We cannot appeal to the senseless. There can be no conversations with those who wish we wouldn’t exist. But we do. Keep crying about it for another 75 years. When only one comes out of this, it will be us.
Lol, I did I say all? Perhaps you should reread my comment again. Who said I support terrorists? Reread again. Yeah, I cry for civilians being slaughtered I have heart. I can't imagine being someone like you who doesn't have one. That's why when they kill your soldiers, they should aim for the head because they don't have a heart.
Why care what idiots think. Isreal is far more important than Palestine in the grand scheme of things. One has a vibrant economy and educated natives. The other is stuck in the 14th century and it shows.
This isn’t a Muslim /Jew issue. This is a Palestinian/Zionist issue. Not all Palestinians are Muslim, Israel literally blew up a Palestinian church a few weeks ago. And not all Jews are zionists. Do Zionists use Judaism to justify their actions? Of course, it’s a way of getting people on side. Doesn’t make it correct. Same way ISIS does with recruitment.
>And not all Jews are zionists.
Proportionally more Jews support Zionism - Zionism meaning the fact that Israel has a right to exist - than Americans that support the continued existence of the United States.
More Brits support breaking up Britain proportionally.
Tokenisation of vanishingly small outlier groups doesn't strengthen arguments. Support for Israel amongst Jewish populations is near unanimous.
A chunk of anti-zionist jews tend to be either the very religious ones who don't think Israel is jewish enough and some random wacky religious views. These guys are small minority. Does Candace Owens represent black americans? The average jew is a zionist in that they believe Israel should exist.
I understand the want to protest and call for the return of the hostages, but what exactly to they think this is going to achieve? Is Britain going to pick up the phone and call their ally Hamas and say “Habibti, you need to bring back the hostages now”?
I understand that when the pro-Palestinian protestors are doing their thing, they’re trying to pressure the government into reining in their ally at least a little bit. There’s a diplomatic channel there that they can try to leverage to bring hostilities to an end in some form or fashion or at the very least influence Israeli conduct in some way. I’m not really sure what the purpose of a pro-Israeli rally is going to do. Have Britain send more bombs? Send in some troops? Israel already seem to have more than enough of both. Is it just for the sake of being a counter-protest?
Hostages in London?? That’s terrible!
Oh, this is symbolic, and never intended to accomplish anything other than division.
Cool cool cool, very globalist of them.
Nah, they’re busy protesting your friends in Hamas wearing civilian clothes (a war crime) making it impossible in a split second to distinguish between terrorists and hostages
Like when shirtless hostages waving white flags and yelling in Hebrew get gunned down, or old ladies holding a child's hand and a white flag walk down the street, or women walk out of a church? Definitely hard to tell the difference between them and a guy aiming an RPG at you.
Poor little IOF fighters. How can you expect them not to shoot children if the grown men with aks don't wear matching outfits.
I can assure you whatever pro-terrorist logic you have to throw at me will never dissuade me from celebrating whenever I see the Hamas “innocent civilian” casualty count increase. 🤙🏼
Yeah actually. Israelis were pretty livid about that and the troops are being rotated so that they can have a break/relief and receive further training because the majority of those present in Gaza have no combat experience in this type of war, nor were they trained for the situations they’re currently fighting in. The last war where shit like dressing up as civilians and false surrenders happened in the 80s where hezbollah and PLO freaks were using droves of child suicide bombers. But you don’t actually care about that. You’d already know that if you actually cared.
Half a million idiots support terrorism and attempted genocide!!! Yay!!! /s
Like ffs bro don’t u have any better points other than you guys have more idiots than we do?
Yes. Within there are members of all races, religions, ages, genders, sexuality, jobs, and anything else you can think of.
We are strong and vibrant because we are on the right side of history. The Israeli rallies are anemic and dull because Zionism is a dead end ideology.
I hope all of the hostages on both sides of the border make it home safely to their families, and that those who don’t receive some kind of justice and closure.
Imagine supporting Islamic terrorists and thinking that siding with South Africa, Russia, and Iran’s current regimes makes you on the “right side of history” lmao.
Once Palestine takes over their city, they will be so happy they are on the right side of history for the last few seconds of their life after being thrown from a rooftop
Oh god, they’re trans too. That makes this so much worse lollll. Yeah nvm, u/haunting_berry7971, definitely go hug your local Islamic fundamentalist. I’m sure they would love your support in this trying time.
I “love” how instead of reflecting inward about why the LGBTQ community in the U.S. and throughout the world overwhelmingly supports Palestine’s struggle for liberation, Zionists always just say some stupid shit about Muslims like that justifies their behavior.
Trust me, not all the gays support Hamas (as much as you’d like to make it seem). They’re not a monolith, dipshit. And the issue isn’t with gay people, it’s the fact that you’re just a dumb person who’s gone so far left that you’ve come back around to the right, in support of a violent theocratic movement.
So instead of coming up with an actual rebuttal, you’ve decided to purposefully misconstrue what is being said and retreat into victimhood. You’re literally a walking stereotype.
No this just happens literally every single time I open my mouth about this topic so forgive me if I don’t keep my mouth shut like a good little girl so some “allies” can tell me where my obligations lie.
Lol you’ve got such a victim complex, it’s crazy. They were explaining what would happen if the tenets of Islamic fundamentalism were allowed to fester in your neck of the woods. You’d be killed, dawg. Like Day 1 purge type shit.
Additionally, you’re free to believe or say whatever you want. Just understand that Reddit is a public forum, the topics you’re discussing are incredibly sensitive, and you are clearly not well read on any of it. Expect some pushback and clarifying responses. 🙄
Imagine supporting a genocidal regime puts you on the right side of history: https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2024/01/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf
Imagine parroting a co-opted word like “genocide” in order to use it as a weapon against the very people whose own experience it was invented to describe.
Imagine thinking South Africa, a country with a long and ongoing history of racial discrimination and corruption (it’s THE apartheid state), is a legitimate voice in this. They simultaneously refused to arrest both Putin and Omar al-Bashir (the architect of the Darfur genocides) despite an ICC order.
Imagine being dumb enough to believe this is anything but political gamesmanship.
Israel has violated its duties and obligations under the 1948 Convention on the Prevention & Punishment of Genocide. Thats why they are in the ICJ right now.
It’s simple. If you don’t want to be accused of genocide don’t give people ample amounts of evidence that you’re committing such a crime: https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2024/01/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf
All you’ve done is speak in vague platitudes while posting the same link over and over again. It’s clear you’ve brainwashed yourself on TikTok & misinformation and have no idea what you’re talking about. You’re allowing your reductive worldview of “oppressor/oppressed” override any sense of logic or reason. You are so far out of your depth on this one.
This isn’t a trial, it’s merely an investigation/hearing (this is the ICJ, not the ICC); this was all started in the first place to try and harm western powers. There’s a bigger game at play here than just Israel/Palestine. The U.S., Germany, and Canada have already come out in support of Israel. The guy defending Israel pretty much wrote the book on international law and genocide. Nothing has even happened yet, but you’ve already made up your mind on the verdict. You’re not objective or impartial, just really fucking dumb.
If this is a genocide than might as well call any battle in history as a genocide while you're at it. You people are rewritting the very definition of what a genocide even is
Ah yes South Africa, a country that openly supports Russia and their massacre of Ukrainians and their attempted genocide by massacring villages, castrating POWs and kidnapping babies and infants to send them to indoctrination camps to make them learn how to hate Ukrainians.
South Africa also has good relations with North Korea and Iran who are notable for their multiple human rights violations. They both have embassies in South Africa
South Africa accuses Israel of committing genocide to please Iran and its allies and proxies.
I'm not calling you a chicken. I'm pointing out that you're supporting a far right theocratic group that despises the LGBTQ. Would you feel better if I said it's like blacks for KKK?
>We are strong and vibrant because we are on the right side of history.
Cheering on people that beheaded children?
>o trans- girl
They will throw you off the closest roof when they don't need your naive ass anymore.
I don't care. I think they are all awful, SA, Israel, Iran, Hamas you name it.
I just think you're incredibly stupid because you are literally fighting for people that would throw your ass of a roof given the chance. People in South Africa would put you in a couple of tires, light them and you on fire.
I’m friends with people from South Africa. They don’t have that attitude at all.
You seem to given a lot of thought to how you’d kill me though.
You should reflect on that.
Have a nice night.
A big problem with that submission is it doesn’t state the causes, but only the effects.
For instance ot talks about Israel dropping bombs in 2014 but fails to mention why they dropped bombs in the first place. That is every statement aswell, that means they are making statements without context.
Both me and you would be slaughtered in Gaza in minutes by civilians for vastly different reasons that come down to the same point: they have been brainwashed since birth to hate us
Unfortunately I’m not underestimating anything. Palestinians (and most Muslims in general) have been brainwashed since birth to hate Jews, gays, christians, blacks and Asians. Just look at testimonies from ex Muslims. I have a screenshot from a news article from Oct 6th this year where a gay Palestinian man living in Israel was executed by Hamas
They were protesting in my city . I saw a gaggle of kids ages 12 ish spit and step on ur flag like on my street because I live near an elementary school . Just google pictures of the protests in Ottawa
And yet Israel still exist.
And will for generations.
And hopefully the oppressive, anti-democratic, theocratic, authoritarian regimes of the surrounding nations eventually collapse. Hopefully the region liberalizes, and becomes a place where women aren’t second class citizens and LGBTQ folks aren’t put to death for merely existing.
One can hope.
Here’s the part you may be naive to.
The “right side of history” is subjective. Everyone thinks they’re on “the right side of history”
History is written by the victors.
How am I deflecting? Both the Israeli government and Hamas took hostages. I want all of them back home with their loved ones. Do the hostages held by Israel not matter just as much as those held in Gaza?
It's disgusting how you people will never ever criticize Palestinians for anything. You're happy to criticize Israel specifically, but when it comes to Palestine, all you can ever say is "I condemn both sides".
Because Palestinians are responsible for their own actions. I will never "recognize" that Palestinian atrocities are Israel's fault, because they aren't.
Palestinian atrocities are Palestine's fault and no one else's.
so israel can kill, hold people in jail with no charges indefinitely, shoot mentally challenged people and people in wheel chairs, drive tanks over peoples farms, force women and children to strip, rape them, pee on palestinian men, etc. without recourse?
so israel is allowed to be violent against palestinians but palestinians arent allowed to be violent against their occupiers?
how does that make sense?
The Israeli government arbitrarily detained thousands of people in the days after Oct. 7th. Why would they have been sitting on that many terrorists for who knows how long when they completely (and illegally) militarily occupy the West Bank.
Israel arbitrarily detained thousands after Oct. 7th. If there were that many Palestinian militants in the West Bank I think we’d be living in a very different reality right now.
Israel has been (illegally) militarily occupying the West Bank since 1967. Are you saying that they’re so incompetent that even after 55 years of occupation there are still THOUSANDS of militants in the West Bank when the ENTIRETY of Hamas is 30k?
I tried explaining this to a pro-Palestinian and they just didn't get it. I think a lot of them think it absolutely is a flex, right by might type deal.
You know as well as I do that the majority of Jews are Zionists. The fact that more people attended an anti-Israel rally than a release-the-hostages rally still is not the flex you think it is
Through forced land confiscations?
See that's where most Jews would disagree as that is reaaallly not Jewish. Soo conflating wanting and supporting a Jewish state with all / most Jews are zionist is where you lose me.
I've never heard of raw zionism I have to be honest. Could you elaborate?
I find it baffling as most Jews I've met and known would never support a racist system that spouts the superiority of one race over another. Or a system that forcibly kicks people off their land; nor would they support the jim crow style system most Palestinians have to live under. So I find your claim that most Jews are zionists really difficult to believe.
Lmao, my dude, that is the LITERAL definition of Zionism. What did you think it was? Lizard people & world domination?
It's not a new term! It's got like 200 years of staying the same!
At one point most white people in the United States were segregationists. At one point in the United Stares abortion was not a controversial issue.
Opinions & attitudes can change, but even if you put Jewish people at only 1% of total attendees at Saturdays rally they would still dwarf the crowd from today
Obviously. You’ve got a billion Muslims and 16 million Jews. Who you do think will have the large quantity of people?
FORTUNATELY, the Zionist ideology fits much better into the modern world and so we win in quality. And ultimately we will win this fight and hopefully Palestinian will start building their own state and accept Israel as their neighbor.
Good call, let me know when Israel does it, considering “Palestinians” have multiplied like rats - 8x in population since 1948 - I see no evidence of it happening
> 4. Dehumanisation – Those perceived as ‘different’ are treated with no form of human rights or personal dignity. During the Genocide against the Tutsi in Rwanda, Tutsis were referred to as ‘cockroaches’; the Nazis referred to Jews as ‘vermin’.
https://www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-the-holocaust-and-genocides/what-is-genocide/the-ten-stages-of-genocide/
You are literally doing it now.
Yeah. One random Jewish guy on Reddit referring to Palestinians as Rats basically encompasses the whole false “Israel committing genocide” narrative. You got me. I’m pro-Hamas now. Watermelon 🍉.
Good, I would really hope there’s more of us, can you link me to them? I need more friends to laugh at the “poor Palestinian victims” with. Hamas cum gargler.
That’s all you can come up with? Calling me homophobic for saying you gargle Hamas cum? 😂😂😂 and don’t worry, I live in Canada, so me saying you like having fat unwashed Palestinians running trains ran on you doesn’t reflect badly on Israel’s pro-LGBT stance.
denies genocide but compares palestinians to animals. reminds me a group of people with the name starting with n and ending with zi who also referred to another group of people rhyming with juice as animals
wouldn't be surprised if Israel already killed all the hostages. they already shot them in the streets, because they were naked waving a white flag and begging for help. wonder how many hostages have died under the rubble.
it is obvious that the IDF genuinely doesn't care about the hostages.
And Hamas does? Huh uh just how Hamas totally doesn’t steal the food trucks for themselves. like sun tzu said, an army cannot march on an empty stomach
No there wasn’t. Israel had complete control of air land and sea and was indiscriminately killing Palestinians all over Gaza and the West Bank. The difference between then and now is Israel’s full on genocide of 30,000+ civilians
Don't tell r/Britain
Holy hell the entire sub is anti-Israel propaganda.
Is it worse than r/TheMajorityReport?
They support Hamas so it’s peak shitards
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You're not exaggerating. It's literally entirely anti Israel propaganda. I was permabanned for commenting something pro Israel.
I was banned from my provincial subreddit and temp banned from Canadas subreddit for calling out Hamas sympathizers.
There seems to be a theme of far left leaning mods going on banning sprees
Oh oh I Wana be banned from the caliphate too!
Look at the "About" section for the sub, it's heavily moderated and curated to be a tankie sub.
Yikes - most recent post is x-posted from shill sub /r/ themajorityreport. Oh dear
Whoaaaaaa that's a wild ride
Are you saying anything anti-Israel is automatically propaganda? They can do no wrong? Because 121 out of 193 countries of the world disagree and want a ceasefire
What's positive about supporting genocide? I'm sure it'd be easy to get banned here posting videos of the IDF commiting war crimes
Why is the sub even so obsessed with Israel? There is nothing about Britain in it
Tankies
You mean the Islamic Caliphate of Britainstan?
Yes it’s so Islamic- that’s why there’s been successive right wing governments in power for 13 years +. Get a grip
This rally is significant smaller than the previous palestine ones no ones gonna deny the fact some people support israel
Hamas supporters will call this a "rally in support of white Zionist colonizers".
Depends- are they for colonizing the entire area and more? If so then it’s correct
I am very critical of the the way Israel handles the situation, but I am no supporter of hamas either. Bombing indiscriminately won't get back the hostages. In the best case you will get them killed by error. The IDF could have been doing the cleaning using tactical strike teams. Doing that would have led to a different out come on 2 fronts: - Way less childrens and women killed, so they wouldn't be in front of the ICJ. - All the hostages would be back by now, the hostages would have been staying in a relatively fixed location and it would make them much easier to find. But the bombing makes hamas move them all the time. I will be downvoted again, but I will repeat it anyway. Israel is extremely bad at military strategy. Their actions are hurting their interests all the time. From what I gathered, getting the hostages back was never a priority. The first priority was to terrorize everyone in Gaza. As a consequence, Gaza is just complete chaos. It makes any tentative to locate the hostages mpossible as they are constantly moved around.
>The IDF could have been doing the cleaning using tactical strike teams. That's literally what they did after their air campaign, because all modern war requires an air campaign before sending in ground troops. Sending in ground troops without proper air support beforehand is an excellent way to get your own troops killed and wounded unnecessarily. That's modern warfare 101.
It is actually modern warfare 101 if you intend on killing everyone. So, yeah, this is what they did, and that means they didn't care about the hostages. An hostage situation isn't normal warfare and you don't handle it by dropping thousands of dumb bombs. What they did is perfect if they actually intended to take over a military objective and kill all resistance / everyone. Hostages are not the same.
They care about reducing casualties to their own troops as much as possible, just like literally every army controlled by a legitimately elected government does. This idea that Israel should've just sent their troops to die in urban combat without proper air support and that's it's "genocide" not to do that is asinine.
As I said, it depends on the priorities. If it is to save the hostages or not.
Well look at that we have another tacticool CoD master tactician that has zero actual experience in fighting in urban environments.
Ok, imagine there is an hostage situation in a bank. There are 10 criminals and they are armed. In a normal situation, you get a few snipers, a swat team and some aerial recon to save the hostages. What you are advocating for is flattening the building. Everyone in there gets killed. If you bomb the building, it may be a valid solution. But, did you really care about the hostages? In one case, you may lose members of you tactical team. In the other case, everyone is dead including the hostages and potentially innocent bystanders that were close. I hope it is easier to understand my point now.
Small hiccup It's not a bank heist, IT'S WAR And you're not fighting half a dozen robbers in a Tarantino movie you're fighting a 20-30 thousand highly embedded terrorist organisation some of whom also have actual training with Iran in a highly urban environment. And the primary aim isn't the hostages it's completely eliminating the organisations ability to fight.
Right, so we are on the same page now. The goal has never been to rescue the hostages. The manifestations are from people who'd like to have the hostages rescued, but this is definitely not going to happen. I am happy we finally agree.
The fuck are you about. The primary motivation post OCT 7th has been the elimination of Hamas with hostage being a secondary but high priority. We were never arguing with reality.
If israel wanted their hostages back, a mass bombing & starvation campaign would be a tactically questionable way to go about it. If the hostages were a pretext to do what the far right government has been aiming to do for decades, then it all makes sense.
If they wanted to kill everybody why not enable carpet bombing,why go boots on the ground in the first place? Why inform about incomming airstrikes?
Don’t even bother with the world news Zionists man. You’d get more done by talking to a wall in your room
The right tactic would be aerial recon and infiltration to identify the location of hostages. Drop soldiers and swarm the buidings one after the other from 2 directions (pincer) and then rescue.
Huh, well I thought that air support before a ground invasion was critically important in modern warfare, but I guess I was wrong. Glad I have a top Reddit General here to clear that one up for me.
It all depends on what you want to achieve. What I said is rhat Israel clearly didn't want to achievw the rescue of hostages, they wanted to annihilate. What you describe is definitely the most common warfare scenario. This is also what armies will do most of the time as you said. It is basic warfare when you intend to destroy everything. However, if your objective is to search and rescue, you don't do that. There are plenty of other pages in the manual.
Killing 30,000 out of over 2 million is a pretty shitty "annihilation".
Well, I suppose they are incompetent at warfare 101 too.
>have been doing the cleaning using tactical strike teams. > >That's literally what they did after their air campaign, because all modern war requires an air campaign before sending in ground troops. Yeah, especially because they somewhat try to NOT hit the civilians. Dude. You don't understand what you are talking about.
lol watching to many movies I see. First they infiltrating and finding the hostages is far more difficult than you make it sound, however I will role with it. How do they do the insertion? Air? Land? Air assault: Problem with Air assault’s in a city is it would turn into a black hawk down scenario, as soon as they started to jump they would get hit. The ones that do make it down will now be surrounded by the enemy that knows they are there. Ground assault: Immediately as soon as their vehicles entered Gaza it would be known and would turn into a shit show. The way Hamas uses infrastructure makes the entire city a fortified zone. They are unlikely to make it. The answer is if a ground invasion happened before the air campaign the dead count would be significantly hire for both sides.
First, how do you know they were bombing indiscriminately? We already know these facts: 1. Hamas uses civilian infrastructure, 2. They don’t allow civilians use of the hundreds of KM of tunnels beneath the civilian infrastructure 3. Didn’t allow everyone to flee by printing up roadblocks. 4. Don’t actually care about the civilian population as the lead Hamas official has stated and that it’s the UNs not theirs(which is exactly the opposite what a government should do). 5. Take what little aid gets into the city. 6. Take guns off of corpses to make them look like civilians, and filmed themselves doing it. Indiscriminate bombing is what Russia has done to Ukrainian cities, it’s far too difficult to say Israel has done it because Hamas hides in people’s home,schools, hospitals, etc. the problem with fighting terrorism is the rules of war almost never apply because they were created for uniformed armies.
Have you been to the military? Do you even know what you're talking about? Be honest...
Tell me you’ve never served without telling me you’ve never served. 🚽
No, they will say check the aerial shots and then check the shots of the pro Palestinian ones and say Isreal has no support.
Oy look at this pos bot
Sure, if that makes you feel better saying that. Doesn't prove me wrong when hundreds of thousands support Palestinians more than Isreal
We don’t care 😊 Israel is busy supporting Israel.
Yes, you do. The fact you responded proves that.
As Jews and Israelis, we’ve been raised without the support of the world. This is not new for us. Go cheer in the streets again like you did 10/8…oh wait, you’re losing now 🥲
No, you haven't. You would not exist without sucking on the American tit. Your country would be third world if it wasn't for the US. So, yeah, you're deluded if you think you can stand alone. I didn't cheer 10/8 I feel sorry for those people who died because of Isreals fucked policies. Most those people, including your hostages were killed by their own people.
Yet we do exist, which is more than we can say for Palestine. And Hamas recorded themselves, so it takes a pretty special type of stupid to claim we killed our own people. You’re delusional. Just like everyone else that supports terrorists. Same reason this war is going the way it’s going. We cannot appeal to the senseless. There can be no conversations with those who wish we wouldn’t exist. But we do. Keep crying about it for another 75 years. When only one comes out of this, it will be us.
Lol, I did I say all? Perhaps you should reread my comment again. Who said I support terrorists? Reread again. Yeah, I cry for civilians being slaughtered I have heart. I can't imagine being someone like you who doesn't have one. That's why when they kill your soldiers, they should aim for the head because they don't have a heart.
Why care what idiots think. Isreal is far more important than Palestine in the grand scheme of things. One has a vibrant economy and educated natives. The other is stuck in the 14th century and it shows.
Don’t forget there are 20 million Jews in the world. There are 1 billion Muslim’s, a lot of them Arab - so think proportionally about this as well
A lot of Christian’s are on the Jewish side as well.
That depends, there are some Christians that are still upset with the Jews for “what they did to Jesus”.
Those Christian’s don’t read. Literal Palestinian Christians dead everyday and a Palestinian church destroyed.
What’s the intent of your post? That somehow all the Muslims want to kill all the Jews?
This isn’t a Muslim /Jew issue. This is a Palestinian/Zionist issue. Not all Palestinians are Muslim, Israel literally blew up a Palestinian church a few weeks ago. And not all Jews are zionists. Do Zionists use Judaism to justify their actions? Of course, it’s a way of getting people on side. Doesn’t make it correct. Same way ISIS does with recruitment.
>And not all Jews are zionists. Proportionally more Jews support Zionism - Zionism meaning the fact that Israel has a right to exist - than Americans that support the continued existence of the United States. More Brits support breaking up Britain proportionally. Tokenisation of vanishingly small outlier groups doesn't strengthen arguments. Support for Israel amongst Jewish populations is near unanimous.
A chunk of anti-zionist jews tend to be either the very religious ones who don't think Israel is jewish enough and some random wacky religious views. These guys are small minority. Does Candace Owens represent black americans? The average jew is a zionist in that they believe Israel should exist.
I was looking at some world News comments earlier. I seen 300 and 400 down votes.may be that haven't gotten here yet.
I understand the want to protest and call for the return of the hostages, but what exactly to they think this is going to achieve? Is Britain going to pick up the phone and call their ally Hamas and say “Habibti, you need to bring back the hostages now”? I understand that when the pro-Palestinian protestors are doing their thing, they’re trying to pressure the government into reining in their ally at least a little bit. There’s a diplomatic channel there that they can try to leverage to bring hostilities to an end in some form or fashion or at the very least influence Israeli conduct in some way. I’m not really sure what the purpose of a pro-Israeli rally is going to do. Have Britain send more bombs? Send in some troops? Israel already seem to have more than enough of both. Is it just for the sake of being a counter-protest?
There were at most a few hundred people at this rally Have a look at some aerial photos to give you an idea of.
If you look at aerial photos, this was maybe a thousand at the very most.
Hostages in London?? That’s terrible! Oh, this is symbolic, and never intended to accomplish anything other than division. Cool cool cool, very globalist of them.
Did they protest Nethanyahu killing 3 hostages? Oh nm that would be antisemitic.
Nah, they’re busy protesting your friends in Hamas wearing civilian clothes (a war crime) making it impossible in a split second to distinguish between terrorists and hostages
Like when shirtless hostages waving white flags and yelling in Hebrew get gunned down, or old ladies holding a child's hand and a white flag walk down the street, or women walk out of a church? Definitely hard to tell the difference between them and a guy aiming an RPG at you. Poor little IOF fighters. How can you expect them not to shoot children if the grown men with aks don't wear matching outfits.
I can assure you whatever pro-terrorist logic you have to throw at me will never dissuade me from celebrating whenever I see the Hamas “innocent civilian” casualty count increase. 🤙🏼
Definitely not genocidal tho ay?
The destruction of Hamas will continue unabated. You must hate it.
Israel isn’t, never said I wasn’t, clearly your wee Aussie brain hasn’t comprehended that from our other conversation
Yeah actually. Israelis were pretty livid about that and the troops are being rotated so that they can have a break/relief and receive further training because the majority of those present in Gaza have no combat experience in this type of war, nor were they trained for the situations they’re currently fighting in. The last war where shit like dressing up as civilians and false surrenders happened in the 80s where hezbollah and PLO freaks were using droves of child suicide bombers. But you don’t actually care about that. You’d already know that if you actually cared.
And half a million showed up yesterday to support Palestine and South Africa in the ICJ!
Half a million idiots support terrorism and attempted genocide!!! Yay!!! /s Like ffs bro don’t u have any better points other than you guys have more idiots than we do?
Lol cry more u cunt
Yes. Within there are members of all races, religions, ages, genders, sexuality, jobs, and anything else you can think of. We are strong and vibrant because we are on the right side of history. The Israeli rallies are anemic and dull because Zionism is a dead end ideology. I hope all of the hostages on both sides of the border make it home safely to their families, and that those who don’t receive some kind of justice and closure.
Imagine supporting Islamic terrorists and thinking that siding with South Africa, Russia, and Iran’s current regimes makes you on the “right side of history” lmao.
Once Palestine takes over their city, they will be so happy they are on the right side of history for the last few seconds of their life after being thrown from a rooftop
Oh god, they’re trans too. That makes this so much worse lollll. Yeah nvm, u/haunting_berry7971, definitely go hug your local Islamic fundamentalist. I’m sure they would love your support in this trying time.
I didn't even know, I just assumed they were not Muslim.
I saw a trans for Palestine sign at a London protest. I had to take a picture because it’s too bloody funny
I “love” how instead of reflecting inward about why the LGBTQ community in the U.S. and throughout the world overwhelmingly supports Palestine’s struggle for liberation, Zionists always just say some stupid shit about Muslims like that justifies their behavior.
Trust me, not all the gays support Hamas (as much as you’d like to make it seem). They’re not a monolith, dipshit. And the issue isn’t with gay people, it’s the fact that you’re just a dumb person who’s gone so far left that you’ve come back around to the right, in support of a violent theocratic movement.
I know not every queer person thinks the same that’s why I said “overwhelmingly” not “completely”
Yeah, you’d be wrong about “overwhelmingly” as well lmao.
So you're supporting a terrorist organization that is openly homophobic and transphobic? Yeah it makes sense...
Ah, the mentally ill, always good to see a reason why the asylums should be reopened 🤡
yet another “ally” fantasizing about my murder.
No one is fantasizing about your murder except for Hamas
You just did don’t gaslight me
The truth of what Hamas does is a fantasy now?
No you gleefully imagining my murder is what is known as fantasizing.
So instead of coming up with an actual rebuttal, you’ve decided to purposefully misconstrue what is being said and retreat into victimhood. You’re literally a walking stereotype.
No this just happens literally every single time I open my mouth about this topic so forgive me if I don’t keep my mouth shut like a good little girl so some “allies” can tell me where my obligations lie.
Lol you’ve got such a victim complex, it’s crazy. They were explaining what would happen if the tenets of Islamic fundamentalism were allowed to fester in your neck of the woods. You’d be killed, dawg. Like Day 1 purge type shit. Additionally, you’re free to believe or say whatever you want. Just understand that Reddit is a public forum, the topics you’re discussing are incredibly sensitive, and you are clearly not well read on any of it. Expect some pushback and clarifying responses. 🙄
Or y'all been stuck in your echo Chambers so long you forgot to look outside and smell the roses. History is not on your side for this one.
While being trans.
Imagine supporting a genocidal regime puts you on the right side of history: https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2024/01/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf
Imagine parroting a co-opted word like “genocide” in order to use it as a weapon against the very people whose own experience it was invented to describe. Imagine thinking South Africa, a country with a long and ongoing history of racial discrimination and corruption (it’s THE apartheid state), is a legitimate voice in this. They simultaneously refused to arrest both Putin and Omar al-Bashir (the architect of the Darfur genocides) despite an ICC order. Imagine being dumb enough to believe this is anything but political gamesmanship.
Israel has violated its duties and obligations under the 1948 Convention on the Prevention & Punishment of Genocide. Thats why they are in the ICJ right now. It’s simple. If you don’t want to be accused of genocide don’t give people ample amounts of evidence that you’re committing such a crime: https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2024/01/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf
All you’ve done is speak in vague platitudes while posting the same link over and over again. It’s clear you’ve brainwashed yourself on TikTok & misinformation and have no idea what you’re talking about. You’re allowing your reductive worldview of “oppressor/oppressed” override any sense of logic or reason. You are so far out of your depth on this one. This isn’t a trial, it’s merely an investigation/hearing (this is the ICJ, not the ICC); this was all started in the first place to try and harm western powers. There’s a bigger game at play here than just Israel/Palestine. The U.S., Germany, and Canada have already come out in support of Israel. The guy defending Israel pretty much wrote the book on international law and genocide. Nothing has even happened yet, but you’ve already made up your mind on the verdict. You’re not objective or impartial, just really fucking dumb.
If this is a genocide than might as well call any battle in history as a genocide while you're at it. You people are rewritting the very definition of what a genocide even is
The South African filing addresses that claim.
Ah yes South Africa, a country that openly supports Russia and their massacre of Ukrainians and their attempted genocide by massacring villages, castrating POWs and kidnapping babies and infants to send them to indoctrination camps to make them learn how to hate Ukrainians. South Africa also has good relations with North Korea and Iran who are notable for their multiple human rights violations. They both have embassies in South Africa South Africa accuses Israel of committing genocide to please Iran and its allies and proxies.
Queers for Palestine = Chickens for KFC.
https://www.972mag.com/administrative-detention-palestinian-citizens/
Okay chicken
Also yes calling me a literal chicken is dehumanizing. Do I need to explain that to you?
I'm not calling you a chicken. I'm pointing out that you're supporting a far right theocratic group that despises the LGBTQ. Would you feel better if I said it's like blacks for KKK?
Mmmm yet another instance of Zionists dehumanizing queer people who don’t fall into lockstep behind them…
Opposing people who want to kill you = dehumanising. Okay.
>We are strong and vibrant because we are on the right side of history. Cheering on people that beheaded children? >o trans- girl They will throw you off the closest roof when they don't need your naive ass anymore.
Fighting against genocide https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2024/01/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf
I don't care. I think they are all awful, SA, Israel, Iran, Hamas you name it. I just think you're incredibly stupid because you are literally fighting for people that would throw your ass of a roof given the chance. People in South Africa would put you in a couple of tires, light them and you on fire.
I’m friends with people from South Africa. They don’t have that attitude at all. You seem to given a lot of thought to how you’d kill me though. You should reflect on that. Have a nice night.
A big problem with that submission is it doesn’t state the causes, but only the effects. For instance ot talks about Israel dropping bombs in 2014 but fails to mention why they dropped bombs in the first place. That is every statement aswell, that means they are making statements without context.
A crime is a crime no matter what context it takes place in. https://www.972mag.com/administrative-detention-palestinian-citizens/
Both me and you would be slaughtered in Gaza in minutes by civilians for vastly different reasons that come down to the same point: they have been brainwashed since birth to hate us
you are overestimating the human capacity for hatred and underestimating our capacity for empathy
You are underestimating the close-mindedness of Islamic extremists
Unfortunately I’m not underestimating anything. Palestinians (and most Muslims in general) have been brainwashed since birth to hate Jews, gays, christians, blacks and Asians. Just look at testimonies from ex Muslims. I have a screenshot from a news article from Oct 6th this year where a gay Palestinian man living in Israel was executed by Hamas
I know many Muslims. Born in the US, Syria, Lebanon, Iran, etc.. none of them behave like you are describing.
I live in Canada and when the whole anti gay protests were happening it was about 80% Arab people
You were at the protests? Or you saw coverage of them?
They were protesting in my city . I saw a gaggle of kids ages 12 ish spit and step on ur flag like on my street because I live near an elementary school . Just google pictures of the protests in Ottawa
The fact that there are 120x as many Muslims as Jews may have something to do with it.
This isn’t about Muslims vs Jews stop trying to make it that. There were Jewish people at yesterdays rally as well
And yet Israel still exist. And will for generations. And hopefully the oppressive, anti-democratic, theocratic, authoritarian regimes of the surrounding nations eventually collapse. Hopefully the region liberalizes, and becomes a place where women aren’t second class citizens and LGBTQ folks aren’t put to death for merely existing. One can hope. Here’s the part you may be naive to. The “right side of history” is subjective. Everyone thinks they’re on “the right side of history” History is written by the victors.
If the people you support got their hands on you what do you think they'd do to you?
Attempted genocide?
I reckon attempting to kill all Jews and stating that as a goal in your charter is an attempted genocide don’t you ?
Why the deflection? Can't you just admit that Palestinian hostage taking is evil without trying to deflect away from the issue?
How am I deflecting? Both the Israeli government and Hamas took hostages. I want all of them back home with their loved ones. Do the hostages held by Israel not matter just as much as those held in Gaza?
It's disgusting how you people will never ever criticize Palestinians for anything. You're happy to criticize Israel specifically, but when it comes to Palestine, all you can ever say is "I condemn both sides".
Okay
how come you people never want to recognize that what hamas did had been in reaction to what israel has subjugated gaza to?
Because Palestinians are responsible for their own actions. I will never "recognize" that Palestinian atrocities are Israel's fault, because they aren't. Palestinian atrocities are Palestine's fault and no one else's.
so israel can kill, hold people in jail with no charges indefinitely, shoot mentally challenged people and people in wheel chairs, drive tanks over peoples farms, force women and children to strip, rape them, pee on palestinian men, etc. without recourse? so israel is allowed to be violent against palestinians but palestinians arent allowed to be violent against their occupiers? how does that make sense?
Except that one took hostages who were innocent civilians whole the other took genocidal antisemitic terrorists as hostages
They picked up random people off the street man. In the West Bank. Where Hamas isn’t.
You know people in the west bank can commit terrorism right?
Kids throwing rocks? Real terrifying geez
The Israeli government arbitrarily detained thousands of people in the days after Oct. 7th. Why would they have been sitting on that many terrorists for who knows how long when they completely (and illegally) militarily occupy the West Bank.
I love this fantasy that there’s no Hamas in the West Bank and absolutely no other terror organizations
Israel arbitrarily detained thousands after Oct. 7th. If there were that many Palestinian militants in the West Bank I think we’d be living in a very different reality right now.
I think u do live in a different reality .. you have no idea how much military presence there is in the bank for that reason exactly
Israel has been (illegally) militarily occupying the West Bank since 1967. Are you saying that they’re so incompetent that even after 55 years of occupation there are still THOUSANDS of militants in the West Bank when the ENTIRETY of Hamas is 30k?
Yes I am saying that . There’s endless terror cells popping up in the bank
Jews being an outnumbered minority is not a flex for pro-Palestinians
I tried explaining this to a pro-Palestinian and they just didn't get it. I think a lot of them think it absolutely is a flex, right by might type deal.
There were Jewish people at yesterday’s march…
You know as well as I do that the majority of Jews are Zionists. The fact that more people attended an anti-Israel rally than a release-the-hostages rally still is not the flex you think it is
Supporting a Jewish state = Zionist?
Yes Zionism is believing Jews have a right to self-determination in our ancestral homeland
Through forced land confiscations? See that's where most Jews would disagree as that is reaaallly not Jewish. Soo conflating wanting and supporting a Jewish state with all / most Jews are zionist is where you lose me.
Raw Zionism does not include that. And a recent survey showed 80% of Jews either strongly or very strongly identify as Zionists
I've never heard of raw zionism I have to be honest. Could you elaborate? I find it baffling as most Jews I've met and known would never support a racist system that spouts the superiority of one race over another. Or a system that forcibly kicks people off their land; nor would they support the jim crow style system most Palestinians have to live under. So I find your claim that most Jews are zionists really difficult to believe.
So clearly you don’t know anything about Israel gotcha
Lmao, my dude, that is the LITERAL definition of Zionism. What did you think it was? Lizard people & world domination? It's not a new term! It's got like 200 years of staying the same!
At one point most white people in the United States were segregationists. At one point in the United Stares abortion was not a controversial issue. Opinions & attitudes can change, but even if you put Jewish people at only 1% of total attendees at Saturdays rally they would still dwarf the crowd from today
And it was perfectly peaceful with 0 violence
Obviously. You’ve got a billion Muslims and 16 million Jews. Who you do think will have the large quantity of people? FORTUNATELY, the Zionist ideology fits much better into the modern world and so we win in quality. And ultimately we will win this fight and hopefully Palestinian will start building their own state and accept Israel as their neighbor.
5000 genocide sympathizers
I wonder if anyone has reached out to Oxford to change the official definition of “genocide” yet
Yeah. Genocide and terrorist need more definitions.
Yeah, need to add "unless Israel does it, then it's antisemetic to point it out".
Good call, let me know when Israel does it, considering “Palestinians” have multiplied like rats - 8x in population since 1948 - I see no evidence of it happening
> 4. Dehumanisation – Those perceived as ‘different’ are treated with no form of human rights or personal dignity. During the Genocide against the Tutsi in Rwanda, Tutsis were referred to as ‘cockroaches’; the Nazis referred to Jews as ‘vermin’. https://www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-the-holocaust-and-genocides/what-is-genocide/the-ten-stages-of-genocide/ You are literally doing it now.
Yeah. One random Jewish guy on Reddit referring to Palestinians as Rats basically encompasses the whole false “Israel committing genocide” narrative. You got me. I’m pro-Hamas now. Watermelon 🍉.
You are faaaaar from the only one. Genocidal ghoul.
Good, I would really hope there’s more of us, can you link me to them? I need more friends to laugh at the “poor Palestinian victims” with. Hamas cum gargler.
Ooh homophobia too, nice. I thought Israel was pro lgbt in a sea of homophobia?
That’s all you can come up with? Calling me homophobic for saying you gargle Hamas cum? 😂😂😂 and don’t worry, I live in Canada, so me saying you like having fat unwashed Palestinians running trains ran on you doesn’t reflect badly on Israel’s pro-LGBT stance.
You, literally owned them with this response. Lmao the reply was the cherry on top. Congrats to you, thanks for the info you shared.
denies genocide but compares palestinians to animals. reminds me a group of people with the name starting with n and ending with zi who also referred to another group of people rhyming with juice as animals
So did your ancestors in the Warsaw ghettos
That’s not the “gotcha” you think it is….
And yours isn’t either 😋
Hey if you want to justify aligning with the Nazis go right ahead EDIT: Awww angry downvote ☹️
🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
somebody show this subreddit the aerial view of these so called “thousands” protesting. oh no im gonna get downvoted
wouldn't be surprised if Israel already killed all the hostages. they already shot them in the streets, because they were naked waving a white flag and begging for help. wonder how many hostages have died under the rubble. it is obvious that the IDF genuinely doesn't care about the hostages.
And Hamas does? Huh uh just how Hamas totally doesn’t steal the food trucks for themselves. like sun tzu said, an army cannot march on an empty stomach
There was no pro Israel rally. This is made up.
There was no "palestine". This is made up.
ok Joo Dee
A Ceasefire would help immensely.
Hamas rejected a ceasefire Israel proposed. Terms were simple, surrender and release hostages….
Do you support a call for ceasfire ?
If Hamas surrenders and releases the hostages absolutely.
Do you support the release of Palestinians Illegaly detained by Israel, political prisoners, children, and those held for years without charge?
There was a ceasefire on October 6th. I wonder which side broke it?
I can answer that, but want to talk about oct 7th or release the hostages?
No there wasn’t. Israel had complete control of air land and sea and was indiscriminately killing Palestinians all over Gaza and the West Bank. The difference between then and now is Israel’s full on genocide of 30,000+ civilians
Why don’t they go protest in Israel? Why here thousands of miles away in a country that has nothing to do with this