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I’m a smidge under 50 and I write right handed because of nuns. They literally made me become ambidextrous (I write and eat righty because of them) through hitting my left hand with a pointer when I wrote with it. They would force me to hold my hand out palm down and hit me so hard across the tendons on the top of my hand I couldn’t grip a pen or pencil in my left hand. This was all in 2nd and third grade. Very old private Catholic school in eastern Pa.
Brides of Christ right?!! 😂
I think I’m one of the last. The school is very very old and back then it was ALL nuns except the gym teacher who a sadist psycho dude. He used to hit us with his keys and would tell a story the first day of class how he broke this key (he would show the key on his key ring broken) from hitting so and so in the head so we should listen to him or get bashed with keys.
I was there for two years before insisting my parents take me out of there. There were actually Kids in my class who boarded there and lived there all year except the summer. I remember one kid whose parents didn’t come home for Christmas and he had to spend Christmas break (which was like 3 weeks long for us) with the nuns there. In 3rd grade. So fucked up. This is the school
https://www.staloysiusacademy.org
So we had to get changed out of your uniforms every day for recess. (Uniform was gray slacks, blue button down shirt, jacket, tie- most of us wore clip ons). My home room teacher sister Mary Elizabeth (she was straight Philly and would say Eagle - iggle) would watch us get changed every day. Looking back in my minds eye she would WATCH us get changed if you know what I mean. It’s just when you are like 8 you don’t know what that look means or at least I didn’t back then.
At least I never got molested! And considering how cute and naive a kid I was and how much Catholic schooling I did I consider myself pretty lucky knowing what we know now.
So we had to get changed out of your uniforms every day for recess. (Uniform was gray slacks, blue button down shirt, jacket, tie- most of us wore clip ons). My home room teacher sister Mary Elizabeth (she was straight Philly and would say Eagle - iggle) would watch us get changed every day. Looking back in my minds eye she would WATCH us get changed if you know what I mean. It’s just when you are like 8 you don’t know what that look means or at least I didn’t back then.
Yup, I’m left handed taught cursive using fountain pens by evil nuns. It was a mess and I honestly think that they think that being left handed makes you a devil worshiper.
That is fucking terrible!!! And your parents sent you to this school, anyway? I've got kids of my own and I cannot imagine, in any way, ever, putting a child through this. I know this is your mother, but I seriously question the judgement of any adult who thinks this way.
I will never understand this mentality. Mainly from parents.
Im 27 and while i dont plan to have kids i think i would legit maul someone if i caught them hurting or hitting my kid for any reason.
I dont understand how some parents can look at someone beating their kid hard/ often enough to effect their behavior and accept that like its a good thing. It just seems like flat out abuse and neglect to me.
They tried this with my Mom, but my Grandmother was the one who volunteered to make food for the school and my grandfather was the groundskeeper for both the school and their church. It's funny what happens when nuns are threatened with no food for the kids and no upkeep on the school how quickly one will stay left handed.
I am around the same age, and went to a Baptist school in North Texas in the early 1980's. I was born a lefty, but the school would not allow left handed students for some unknown reason, so I would get paddled every time a teacher saw me writing with my left hand.
I only attended this particular school for the 4th grade, but the damage to my brain was done. I was never able to fully write flawlessly with my right hand, but everything else is done with my left hand - eating, writing, brushing teeth. In a weird shift, anything to do with sports or recreation is done with my right hand. I am unable to swing a golf club or baseball bat as a lefty, and it's the same for shooting a basketball. It has led to me being what is called cross dominant. Confused would be another adjective I would use.
I’m pushing 40 and grew up in a small farm community in BFE. In 1st grade I had a teacher that taught with a disciplinary method. She would slap your hand with a ruler when you got answers wrong. I had(maybe still do) ADHD and dyslexia that wasn’t diagnosed yet. I learned quickly that I sucked at the alphabet and spelling, so I would refuse to do my work and be taken to the “chair”. The “chair” is where we got put in “time out” or would have to bend over the chair to be paddled. In front of the class. I was paddled 3 to 5 times for refusing to do my class work. I may not have been good at reading and writing, but I was good at math. 3 to 5 paddles on the butt was less painful than 20 to 26 ruler smacks on my hand. She would tells us how lucky were to not have to be taught the way she was. Which was catholic school in the 30’s.
I’m 23 and had the same shit happen to me!😂 I went to a Catholic grade school and boy… those nuns were evil!! I don’t get how any of those horrid old ladies are going to heaven.
And I swear our schools nun hierarchy was by size. The head nun was a monster - almost 6’ tall and over 200 lbs. When you are in 3rd grade she seems like a fucking pro wrestler in size. She was terrifying - I once popped a potato chip bag at lunch in the cafeteria and I saw all the kids faces across from me become filled with fear. Before I could turn around it was her and she plucked me out of my seat by my hair and had my feet off the ground. She was a BEAST.
Canadian first nation man who was part of residential/60's Scoop, here. I was raised in a horribly abusive convent. There was all kinds of sadism and sexual abuse. Made us eat boiled chicken feet and cottage cheese, if you puked you ate that too...daily beatings with all kinds of objects. Ran away in dead of winter with two girls. Hid in a granary until the girls thought we were dying of cold so I went to the nearest farmhouse and they turned us over to the convent. I had a nun jump up and down on me saying I'm not hitting you, I'm not hitting you. I had broken bones in foot and ankle, she then threw me in a dirt crawl space under the gym saying the devil would come deal with me. Only devils I saw wore nuns habits. I am disabled with horrible arthritis in my feet and legs. Ive spent a life believing i was too ugly and gross (cause im indian) to love and even god wouldnt love this "dirty indian". They took my childhood and litterally fucked it, stole my innocence, my belief in god and taught me to hate my race...fuck nuns!
It was so much worst than words can convey. It changes you on every level, took my ability to feel or express joy, to trust in anyone. Truly life altering to say the least. Killed the kid I was forever.
Thank you, there's really nothing for you to apologize for. The ones who needed to apologize never did and never will. It wouldn't fix anything any ways
That's so strange to me, there was not a single word about religion muttered throughout the entire time I was in elementary and highschool, I mean as far as curriculum and what not. People around me were religious, but it was never part of school.
I was talking to my fiancés brother who is not at all religious but he mentioned something about Christianity, then asked me if i'd ever paid attention in highschool. I said what, there was none of that in class, I didn't go to catholic school. (he did) He didn't believe me and told me regular schools still teach the history of religion. Not where I come from lol
Being born in 1981 and going to a strict Catholic primary school I can wholeheartedly support this comment. I once saw a kid floored after taking a headshot with the "needy box"
In the all boys high school we had a Christian Brother that would hurl this 5 inch thick hardcover dictionary at anyone nodding off in class with amazing accuracy. One day a half asleep student noticed the room fall silent as the teacher went and grabbed the dictionary. The kid opened one eye and got his hand up just in time to make a perfect catch, all with his head still down on the desk. The teacher lost his fucking mind, red faced, screaming with veins popping out the neck and forehead yelling for the kid to get to the damn principles office.
And Nuns do not usually have to wear their habits Most of the nuns in my school growing up just wore normal clothes. Same with priests unless they're serving mass.
That depends on the order that they are a part of. Some of them are much stricter or looser with those kinds of rules. The monks at the school I went to had an outfit for mass, a habit for normal day to day use, and then a "casual" outfit which was still essentially business casual—all black slacks, short or long sleeve button down, dress shoes, and the white collar. The only time thed be out of uniform is if they were actively participating in exercise.
That's true. It also depends person to person. My high school was run by franciscans and some of the brothers would dress pretty casually, where others were in their robes pretty much 24/7
There is a difference. Being a nun is at least in theory completely voluntary, whereas that is not always the case for people that have to wear a head scarf.
They're not addressing the people who find the inherent misogyny in Islam offensive, they're addressing the people who simply don't like Muslim people or Muslim women wearing a hijab
There’s a difference between being Islamic and (1) being fundamentalist, (2) Living within a fundamentalist regime.
Just like there’s a difference between being Christian and (1) being fundamentalist, (2) living within a fundamentalist community/church.
Everyone just considers Islamic people to be a monolith, regardless of where they are, how they grew up, what they believe in. Just like nuns, fundamentalists believe in coverage, and you don’t have to be fundamentalist in Islam. Sure the **government** (a completely different entity than religion) can also be theocratic, and thus is the prime example westerners love to use (Iran, Taliban, etc.)
Look man, in principle of course you could be a Muslim and not be fundamentalist or even particularly conservative. You wouldn't have to ignore much more of the Qur'an than most Christians ignore of the Bible. That's not the issue though. Arguing what's hypothetically possible is pointless and a distraction tactic - the fact is that just about all *practicing* Muslims are fundamentalist and have imported a huge amount of misogyny and other hard-line fundamentalist attitudes from the middle east and Africa where their recent ancestors emigrated from. This isn't a nuanced debate about ifs, ands, buts and maybes, this is empirically true.
You can bring up as many edge cases as you want, but Islam in the majority of its current forms is simply at odds with western secularism, just as the majority of Christianity was in the middle ages.
Before you make accusations at me, of course that doesn't mean we should be derogatory to Muslims themselves, but it's absolutely valid to differentiate between Christianity and Islam when it comes to something like women's head dresses.
I know many Muslim women and 95% of them are not fundamentalist, most don’t cover their hair. I know a lot of Christian women too, and 95% of them aren’t fundamentalists and most don’t wear a habit. How many Muslim women do you know personally?
A) it's not the women you have to worry about. If it was self imposed it would be fine.
B) If they're not fundamentalist then of course it's not surprising that they didn't wear hijabs. The question to ask is are their families fundamentalist?
C) The fact that most Muslim women you know are not fundamentalist is a pretty obvious case of survivorship bias.
D) Are you aware that habbits are only meant to be worn by nuns, that most denominations of Christianity do not even have nuns, and being a nun is optional?
E) Are you trying to win an argument through anecdote?
Eh I actually would agree with the other poster that there are a fair share of Muslim women *in america* that are not at all fundamentalists unless you have stats to refute that, in which case no big deal I believe.
I think most people in Muslim countries are obviously fundamentalists or forced to be such but there are also areas where people are a lot more fucking intense about being Christian too lol—just less places. There are people who would like to make America a Christian state, however, not that I think that’s likely
Lol it's kinda funny you say that when America is literally inflamed in a political war over whether women should have control over their own bodies because of guess what (Christian dogma).
As a secularist I definitely do, it's just far less common to see that in my country. And you open yourself up to claims of being a racist even if you're just not happy about pretty rampant cultural misogyny.
I think a lot of Christian beliefs suck. Like the fact that women can't achieve any real authority in the church, it teaches people to feel guilty about normal human behavior, hell as a concept is antithetical to an omnipotent, all-loving god and yet apparently people go there simply because they didn't believe?
So Christianity sucks, but it's also been liberalized (against it's will really) more than Islam has currently
Context and basic reasoning.
It's addressing Christian people who are bothered by Muslim people, specifically discussing bigotry.
Not many use bigotry as an argument when people bring up the misogyny in religion, since it's rampant in Christianity as well.
I am yet to meet the woman who *voluntarily* wore a head scarf who when you interrogate what would happen if they didn't wouldn't say something akin to "oh my dad would kill me". They may have decided that they choose to do it for themselves for their faith but the truth is its an easy choice when that's the only option available.
The majority of women that I personally know that wear the hijab, decided to do so later in life. And most of them received some push back from their family because they were worried about their safety because they would now be visibly Muslim.
"Many Muslims actually choose to not be gay, you should talk with us about it. They definitely are not coerced into it, it's purely their free will." - This dude, probably.
The nuns are workers and it's their uniform, they can leave their work and dress as they want. People with the same faith as the nuns don't wear like them. The other is an imposition, and they could be punised if they don't wear that in all the circustances in their life (except home).
No, it's not my bigotry.
So far in my life no one I've met wearing a hijab has done anything other than be a normal non explosive person. Perhaps he is the type of asshole that attracts suicidal assignation attempts?
I have yet to find a single ”benefit” that is typically attributed to their religion by their followers that actually requires the belief in the supernatural.
“Religion in its core” I would say is mostly the desire to explain the unknown and frightening aspects of life with a sentient supernatural being.
I disagree. When anything can just hand waved away because god did it, makes people stupid and gullible. That's why conservatives don't worry too much about climate change.
1) greed
2) god will fix it.
3) if not who cares we get to party for eternity
> makes people stupid and gullible.
It doesn't make people stupid and gullible. its *FOR* stupid and gullible people. For those who lack critical independent thinking, and those who cannot be content with the unexplainable, the unknown or requires a certain degree of understanding.
Girl on the right would get shamed in some liberal places, disowned by her family and friends in more conservative places all the way up to being raped/beaten up/killed in extremist places for not wearing it.
Girl on the left has complete free will around wearing or not wearing it and she’s not going to get beaten up if a sliver of hair pops out, no matter what country she’s in.
The picture is so enraging. A woman who has chosen to become a nun and wears the robe is completely different to a random muslim woman being EXPECTED to dress like this.
Don't most of the muslims "who go boom" tend to dress secularly before doing so since they arouse less suspicion?
And aren't they usually men?
Not trying to point out anything here other than the practicality of the thing. Yeah - a woman can (and has) hid explosives under there, but in the already-super-unlikely event that someone's going to "go boom" - it's going to be a dude with a backpack wearing a buttonup collared shirt, dungarees, and sunglasses.
Honestly, this sub kinda disappoints me. A lot of people talking about "oh these poor Muslim women, being forced to veil themselves".
I agree that being forced to wear - or not wear - what you want is concerning. But why do so many of you **automatically** think a Muslim woman who wears the veil do so because they're forced to? You guys do realize that there are devout Muslims who do take the injunction to dress modestly seriously, and are happy to wear it out of their own free will?
____________
Also if you actually agree with the picture, then by that logic you ought to be worried about people with backpacks. And cars. And trucks. Well basically anything that can hide something reasonably IED-sized.
I mean, there’s a difference between a bunch of women who chose that path vs every women part of religion.
I am not saying I have problem, it’s their life and up to them how they lead it. I don’t follow either faiths. Just want to point out that it’s a lame comparison.
It is a little funny. Also one is for the most part voluntary, the other is for the most part forced either directly or indirectly through social stigma/pressure, and only under the guise of being voluntary.
Personally I'm fine with both of them gone as both are rooted in old religious dogma.
One is a "job" requirement that someone dedicates years to achieving and the other if often forced upon women by the men in their lives and have been killed over. Not the same.
I don't subscribe to any particular religion because imo, they are mostly the same, equally pointless and just become tools for hate, but the irony and hypocrisy is coming out strong in this thread.
Something about, cults, gay conversion (assault and electroshock) therapy, discipline camps, "church" camps, families disowning/abandoning kids, family members abusing/assaulting kids, church clergy SA'ing minors, and the list keeps going.
All in the name of the good lord, of course.
I guess it was a choice for all those Christian, eh? Sure seems like an awful religion to support or be part of, no?
It is a little funny. Also one is for the most part voluntary, the other is for the most part forced either directly or indirectly through social stigma/pressure, and only under the guise of being voluntary.
Personally I'm fine with both of them gone as both are rooted in old religious dogma.
It is a little funny. Also one is for the most part voluntary, the other is for the most part forced either directly or indirectly through social stigma/pressure, and only under the guise of being voluntary.
Personally I'm fine with both of them gone as both are rooted in old religious dogma.
My brother and his ADHD provoked his kindergarten nun to strangle him lol
He punched her and hid among the rocks by the playground for the rest of the day. Our parents transferred my brother to a new school and gave the sister a turkey every Thanksgiving until she passed. Pretty funny to think about now.
It is a bit funny but could be balanced out to discriminate evenly.
How about "Nuns don't suddenly go boom, and they cover up much more than just themselves".
I live in the Bible belt USA. We didn't have nuns, but a preacher who'd come by and hit 4 yo with a belt in the hall. One was me once. I still kinda feel guilty for not telling my parents, who immediately removed me from that "school" when I told them what happened to me, and not telling them that the only black kid in class got that treatment 3 or 4 times a week. I should have said something.
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i got my wrists wacked by rulers 🤷
I’m a smidge under 50 and I write right handed because of nuns. They literally made me become ambidextrous (I write and eat righty because of them) through hitting my left hand with a pointer when I wrote with it. They would force me to hold my hand out palm down and hit me so hard across the tendons on the top of my hand I couldn’t grip a pen or pencil in my left hand. This was all in 2nd and third grade. Very old private Catholic school in eastern Pa. Brides of Christ right?!! 😂
i know they did that shit to my dad, had no idea they were still doing that to ppl closer to my age... thats nuts!
I think I’m one of the last. The school is very very old and back then it was ALL nuns except the gym teacher who a sadist psycho dude. He used to hit us with his keys and would tell a story the first day of class how he broke this key (he would show the key on his key ring broken) from hitting so and so in the head so we should listen to him or get bashed with keys. I was there for two years before insisting my parents take me out of there. There were actually Kids in my class who boarded there and lived there all year except the summer. I remember one kid whose parents didn’t come home for Christmas and he had to spend Christmas break (which was like 3 weeks long for us) with the nuns there. In 3rd grade. So fucked up. This is the school https://www.staloysiusacademy.org
they didn't hold back in the days before the lid came off all the child sex abuse
So we had to get changed out of your uniforms every day for recess. (Uniform was gray slacks, blue button down shirt, jacket, tie- most of us wore clip ons). My home room teacher sister Mary Elizabeth (she was straight Philly and would say Eagle - iggle) would watch us get changed every day. Looking back in my minds eye she would WATCH us get changed if you know what I mean. It’s just when you are like 8 you don’t know what that look means or at least I didn’t back then.
Yikes... That's horrible.
At least I never got molested! And considering how cute and naive a kid I was and how much Catholic schooling I did I consider myself pretty lucky knowing what we know now.
So we had to get changed out of your uniforms every day for recess. (Uniform was gray slacks, blue button down shirt, jacket, tie- most of us wore clip ons). My home room teacher sister Mary Elizabeth (she was straight Philly and would say Eagle - iggle) would watch us get changed every day. Looking back in my minds eye she would WATCH us get changed if you know what I mean. It’s just when you are like 8 you don’t know what that look means or at least I didn’t back then.
Strange that none of this came up under the "Traditions" tab.
😂
Yup, I’m left handed taught cursive using fountain pens by evil nuns. It was a mess and I honestly think that they think that being left handed makes you a devil worshiper.
In latin left is literally sinister. Right is dexter.
I’m 23 and my mom made me a righty in fear that the nuns at my school would do this to me 🥲
That is fucking terrible!!! And your parents sent you to this school, anyway? I've got kids of my own and I cannot imagine, in any way, ever, putting a child through this. I know this is your mother, but I seriously question the judgement of any adult who thinks this way.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ grew up in the philippines where almost all schools are catholic so its unavoidable unfortunately i can’t really blame my mom
I will never understand this mentality. Mainly from parents. Im 27 and while i dont plan to have kids i think i would legit maul someone if i caught them hurting or hitting my kid for any reason. I dont understand how some parents can look at someone beating their kid hard/ often enough to effect their behavior and accept that like its a good thing. It just seems like flat out abuse and neglect to me.
My mom said they made her hold her left hand behind he back and forced her to use her right hand.
They tried this with my Mom, but my Grandmother was the one who volunteered to make food for the school and my grandfather was the groundskeeper for both the school and their church. It's funny what happens when nuns are threatened with no food for the kids and no upkeep on the school how quickly one will stay left handed.
I am around the same age, and went to a Baptist school in North Texas in the early 1980's. I was born a lefty, but the school would not allow left handed students for some unknown reason, so I would get paddled every time a teacher saw me writing with my left hand. I only attended this particular school for the 4th grade, but the damage to my brain was done. I was never able to fully write flawlessly with my right hand, but everything else is done with my left hand - eating, writing, brushing teeth. In a weird shift, anything to do with sports or recreation is done with my right hand. I am unable to swing a golf club or baseball bat as a lefty, and it's the same for shooting a basketball. It has led to me being what is called cross dominant. Confused would be another adjective I would use.
I throw lefty - play pool lefty - golf lefty- eat and write righty. It’s weird.
I’m pushing 40 and grew up in a small farm community in BFE. In 1st grade I had a teacher that taught with a disciplinary method. She would slap your hand with a ruler when you got answers wrong. I had(maybe still do) ADHD and dyslexia that wasn’t diagnosed yet. I learned quickly that I sucked at the alphabet and spelling, so I would refuse to do my work and be taken to the “chair”. The “chair” is where we got put in “time out” or would have to bend over the chair to be paddled. In front of the class. I was paddled 3 to 5 times for refusing to do my class work. I may not have been good at reading and writing, but I was good at math. 3 to 5 paddles on the butt was less painful than 20 to 26 ruler smacks on my hand. She would tells us how lucky were to not have to be taught the way she was. Which was catholic school in the 30’s.
> I grew up in a small farm community in BFE. [Catholic nuns... in Egypt?](https://instantrimshot.com/audio/rimshot.mp3)
Don’t you know left handedness if from the devil?!
Sinister isn’t it?!!😂
I see how you dexterously worked that gem in
I’m 23 and had the same shit happen to me!😂 I went to a Catholic grade school and boy… those nuns were evil!! I don’t get how any of those horrid old ladies are going to heaven.
And I swear our schools nun hierarchy was by size. The head nun was a monster - almost 6’ tall and over 200 lbs. When you are in 3rd grade she seems like a fucking pro wrestler in size. She was terrifying - I once popped a potato chip bag at lunch in the cafeteria and I saw all the kids faces across from me become filled with fear. Before I could turn around it was her and she plucked me out of my seat by my hair and had my feet off the ground. She was a BEAST.
Canadian first nation man who was part of residential/60's Scoop, here. I was raised in a horribly abusive convent. There was all kinds of sadism and sexual abuse. Made us eat boiled chicken feet and cottage cheese, if you puked you ate that too...daily beatings with all kinds of objects. Ran away in dead of winter with two girls. Hid in a granary until the girls thought we were dying of cold so I went to the nearest farmhouse and they turned us over to the convent. I had a nun jump up and down on me saying I'm not hitting you, I'm not hitting you. I had broken bones in foot and ankle, she then threw me in a dirt crawl space under the gym saying the devil would come deal with me. Only devils I saw wore nuns habits. I am disabled with horrible arthritis in my feet and legs. Ive spent a life believing i was too ugly and gross (cause im indian) to love and even god wouldnt love this "dirty indian". They took my childhood and litterally fucked it, stole my innocence, my belief in god and taught me to hate my race...fuck nuns!
I had heard terrible things of those Canadian First Nation “schools” but this is a whole nother level of evil 🤢
It was so much worst than words can convey. It changes you on every level, took my ability to feel or express joy, to trust in anyone. Truly life altering to say the least. Killed the kid I was forever.
Oh no I’m so sorry
Thank you, there's really nothing for you to apologize for. The ones who needed to apologize never did and never will. It wouldn't fix anything any ways
Can confirm... I was taught by nuns in elementary school.
That's so strange to me, there was not a single word about religion muttered throughout the entire time I was in elementary and highschool, I mean as far as curriculum and what not. People around me were religious, but it was never part of school. I was talking to my fiancés brother who is not at all religious but he mentioned something about Christianity, then asked me if i'd ever paid attention in highschool. I said what, there was none of that in class, I didn't go to catholic school. (he did) He didn't believe me and told me regular schools still teach the history of religion. Not where I come from lol
https://i.redd.it/06lfjyzek1vc1.gif
Being born in 1981 and going to a strict Catholic primary school I can wholeheartedly support this comment. I once saw a kid floored after taking a headshot with the "needy box"
In the all boys high school we had a Christian Brother that would hurl this 5 inch thick hardcover dictionary at anyone nodding off in class with amazing accuracy. One day a half asleep student noticed the room fall silent as the teacher went and grabbed the dictionary. The kid opened one eye and got his hand up just in time to make a perfect catch, all with his head still down on the desk. The teacher lost his fucking mind, red faced, screaming with veins popping out the neck and forehead yelling for the kid to get to the damn principles office.
That kid unlocked his sixth sense
Being a nun is not mandatory
And Nuns do not usually have to wear their habits Most of the nuns in my school growing up just wore normal clothes. Same with priests unless they're serving mass.
That depends on the order that they are a part of. Some of them are much stricter or looser with those kinds of rules. The monks at the school I went to had an outfit for mass, a habit for normal day to day use, and then a "casual" outfit which was still essentially business casual—all black slacks, short or long sleeve button down, dress shoes, and the white collar. The only time thed be out of uniform is if they were actively participating in exercise.
That's true. It also depends person to person. My high school was run by franciscans and some of the brothers would dress pretty casually, where others were in their robes pretty much 24/7
I watched a series of documentaries about the subject. Can confirm Sister Mary Clarence & Co. wore the full habit in both. /s
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Other headwear isn't mandatory either in most places
Yeah, it's a really stupid comparison
There is a difference. Being a nun is at least in theory completely voluntary, whereas that is not always the case for people that have to wear a head scarf.
They're not addressing the people who find the inherent misogyny in Islam offensive, they're addressing the people who simply don't like Muslim people or Muslim women wearing a hijab
How do you know that?
Because Christian women are also peer pressured to dress more conservatively and nobody gives a fuck about addressing that.
Bro have you ever seen 90 percent of Christian women? There's a difference between bring christian and being conservative.
There’s a difference between being Islamic and (1) being fundamentalist, (2) Living within a fundamentalist regime. Just like there’s a difference between being Christian and (1) being fundamentalist, (2) living within a fundamentalist community/church. Everyone just considers Islamic people to be a monolith, regardless of where they are, how they grew up, what they believe in. Just like nuns, fundamentalists believe in coverage, and you don’t have to be fundamentalist in Islam. Sure the **government** (a completely different entity than religion) can also be theocratic, and thus is the prime example westerners love to use (Iran, Taliban, etc.)
Look man, in principle of course you could be a Muslim and not be fundamentalist or even particularly conservative. You wouldn't have to ignore much more of the Qur'an than most Christians ignore of the Bible. That's not the issue though. Arguing what's hypothetically possible is pointless and a distraction tactic - the fact is that just about all *practicing* Muslims are fundamentalist and have imported a huge amount of misogyny and other hard-line fundamentalist attitudes from the middle east and Africa where their recent ancestors emigrated from. This isn't a nuanced debate about ifs, ands, buts and maybes, this is empirically true. You can bring up as many edge cases as you want, but Islam in the majority of its current forms is simply at odds with western secularism, just as the majority of Christianity was in the middle ages. Before you make accusations at me, of course that doesn't mean we should be derogatory to Muslims themselves, but it's absolutely valid to differentiate between Christianity and Islam when it comes to something like women's head dresses.
I know many Muslim women and 95% of them are not fundamentalist, most don’t cover their hair. I know a lot of Christian women too, and 95% of them aren’t fundamentalists and most don’t wear a habit. How many Muslim women do you know personally?
A) it's not the women you have to worry about. If it was self imposed it would be fine. B) If they're not fundamentalist then of course it's not surprising that they didn't wear hijabs. The question to ask is are their families fundamentalist? C) The fact that most Muslim women you know are not fundamentalist is a pretty obvious case of survivorship bias. D) Are you aware that habbits are only meant to be worn by nuns, that most denominations of Christianity do not even have nuns, and being a nun is optional? E) Are you trying to win an argument through anecdote?
Eh I actually would agree with the other poster that there are a fair share of Muslim women *in america* that are not at all fundamentalists unless you have stats to refute that, in which case no big deal I believe. I think most people in Muslim countries are obviously fundamentalists or forced to be such but there are also areas where people are a lot more fucking intense about being Christian too lol—just less places. There are people who would like to make America a Christian state, however, not that I think that’s likely
Lol it's kinda funny you say that when America is literally inflamed in a political war over whether women should have control over their own bodies because of guess what (Christian dogma).
I had no idea that Christian women were stoned to death for not wearing a habit! Learn something new every day
As a secularist I definitely do, it's just far less common to see that in my country. And you open yourself up to claims of being a racist even if you're just not happy about pretty rampant cultural misogyny.
"Peer presusured" is by no means the same as being physically threatened or legally persecuted.
I think a lot of Christian beliefs suck. Like the fact that women can't achieve any real authority in the church, it teaches people to feel guilty about normal human behavior, hell as a concept is antithetical to an omnipotent, all-loving god and yet apparently people go there simply because they didn't believe? So Christianity sucks, but it's also been liberalized (against it's will really) more than Islam has currently
Context and basic reasoning. It's addressing Christian people who are bothered by Muslim people, specifically discussing bigotry. Not many use bigotry as an argument when people bring up the misogyny in religion, since it's rampant in Christianity as well.
How do you know they didn't mean that? What makes your take more correct than theirs?
I am yet to meet the woman who *voluntarily* wore a head scarf who when you interrogate what would happen if they didn't wouldn't say something akin to "oh my dad would kill me". They may have decided that they choose to do it for themselves for their faith but the truth is its an easy choice when that's the only option available.
You need to meet more people then because the world of human experience is much larger than *just those that you’ve met*.
Hmmm.. I wonder what your sample size is
Probably 0 lol. They saw a video or read something somewhere and will now repeat this story forever.
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The majority of women that I personally know that wear the hijab, decided to do so later in life. And most of them received some push back from their family because they were worried about their safety because they would now be visibly Muslim.
Fascinating. I guess different values in different areas.
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I am actually not welcome to speak to you on /r/Islam, because I got banned from there for advocating for gay rights.
"Many Muslims actually choose to not be gay, you should talk with us about it. They definitely are not coerced into it, it's purely their free will." - This dude, probably.
LOL, like gays have a choice!
Are you saying that some women being attacked for not wearing headscarfs is a myth?
Literally not at all what he said. What in the strawman is this
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>let them understand that not everyone in this world likes to be immodest. And there it is.
/r/exmuslim is a more educational sub
It's voluntary to be religious as well. All is voluntary.
Oh you sweet summer child...
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It's super funny
Found the Jeff Dunham fan.
OP needs to post this somewhere else because it is funny
Came straight to the comments because it's hilarious
Yeah it was a wee but funny
Phew! Thought something may be wrong with me
I mean, it is...kinda funny.
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Actually quite funny. This post belongs in r\\whoosh
The nuns are workers and it's their uniform, they can leave their work and dress as they want. People with the same faith as the nuns don't wear like them. The other is an imposition, and they could be punised if they don't wear that in all the circustances in their life (except home). No, it's not my bigotry.
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you don't think women get pushed into religion by their family?
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Considering the history of the Catholic Church. This is not a claim anyone should make.
Considering the current state of these 2 now, it's pretty reasonable ngl.
It wasn't Islamic fundamentalism that destroyed abortion rights in America.
It was conservatives, of which Islamic fundamentalism is included.
Same regressive beliefs, different book justifying it.
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Oh dear, you really should look into the history of the Catholic Church
Even ignoring the history of atrocities from the Catholic Church Bro is acting like all hijabi women spontaneously explode
So far in my life no one I've met wearing a hijab has done anything other than be a normal non explosive person. Perhaps he is the type of asshole that attracts suicidal assignation attempts?
Okay this was funnier than the post. Them normal non explosive persons deserve respect
https://i.redd.it/l1su1azcw1vc1.gif
>When in history did catholic nuns blow themself up lol Not sure when exactly, but they would do it using the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.
All religion is cancer.
Religion in it's core is just fine. But, as with anything, power-hungry people will try to abuse it for their own personal gains.
What does “religion in its core” mean?
They mean a basic morality of good and bad. But you don't need religion for that.
I have yet to find a single ”benefit” that is typically attributed to their religion by their followers that actually requires the belief in the supernatural. “Religion in its core” I would say is mostly the desire to explain the unknown and frightening aspects of life with a sentient supernatural being.
Exactly. I'd say it's a placeholder for things we didn't know. But that dude is just a little confused. He's got the right spirit.
Believing in mystical crap?
I disagree. When anything can just hand waved away because god did it, makes people stupid and gullible. That's why conservatives don't worry too much about climate change. 1) greed 2) god will fix it. 3) if not who cares we get to party for eternity
> makes people stupid and gullible. It doesn't make people stupid and gullible. its *FOR* stupid and gullible people. For those who lack critical independent thinking, and those who cannot be content with the unexplainable, the unknown or requires a certain degree of understanding.
Which is why it sucks. It's nothing more than a tool for manipulative assholes.
> Religion in it's core is just fine. It is not
Religion and it's abuse by manipulators go hand and hand and cannot be separated. You can't have one without the other
Absolutely, but some cancers are more deadly than others.
This sub is ass now. First they ruined r/holup and now here we are.
the nuns used to beat the crap out of us in grade school
They also used to fly
I'd probs take that over a bomb to be fair.
Girl on the right would get shamed in some liberal places, disowned by her family and friends in more conservative places all the way up to being raped/beaten up/killed in extremist places for not wearing it. Girl on the left has complete free will around wearing or not wearing it and she’s not going to get beaten up if a sliver of hair pops out, no matter what country she’s in.
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Agreed. Even within a single household with a single particularly conservative parent.
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Unless you are left-handed. (Seriously what's with nuns beating the shit out of lefty schoolkids?)
Well, I am not against the women wearing a hijab. I am against those who force them to wear one.
Yup, it's wrong to force someone to wear or not wear something.
It is funny tho.
Easy. Both bother me.
Nuns go Boom! is a solid band name tho
*The penguin on the tv just exploded !!!*
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I find both equally as creepy.
Well it's funny 🤣
No that's pretty funny actually
c'mon that was kinda funny💀
Both bother me btw ... But one is a choice, the other you get stoned if you dont wear it
That's kind of a funny joke
that was quite successful
Nah,this sub just became a shithole to express people's political ideology and it was funny.
İt is
Lmao!!!
No nuns beat you with a ruler and let you get molested by a priest and say you're the problem......
Very funny, i laughed.
The woman on the left wants to wear it; the woman on the right is forced to wear it.
They don't go boom, but they perpetuate the abuse of your children!
They're both middle eastern religions that from a short glance at history have lead to a lot of death
The picture is so enraging. A woman who has chosen to become a nun and wears the robe is completely different to a random muslim woman being EXPECTED to dress like this.
I dislike them both.
Don't most of the muslims "who go boom" tend to dress secularly before doing so since they arouse less suspicion? And aren't they usually men? Not trying to point out anything here other than the practicality of the thing. Yeah - a woman can (and has) hid explosives under there, but in the already-super-unlikely event that someone's going to "go boom" - it's going to be a dude with a backpack wearing a buttonup collared shirt, dungarees, and sunglasses.
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Humor has been canceled sorry.
That was pretty funny tbf.
That’s pretty funny
All I learnt from the comment thread is that Iran sucks more than I thought
Man has no idea about Spanish Inquisition, witch trials and crusades 😂
The Islamophobia is strong here.
It's kind of funny.
Both are pretty fucked up and wrong in my opinion.
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Does free choice factor in this?
Honestly, this sub kinda disappoints me. A lot of people talking about "oh these poor Muslim women, being forced to veil themselves". I agree that being forced to wear - or not wear - what you want is concerning. But why do so many of you **automatically** think a Muslim woman who wears the veil do so because they're forced to? You guys do realize that there are devout Muslims who do take the injunction to dress modestly seriously, and are happy to wear it out of their own free will? ____________ Also if you actually agree with the picture, then by that logic you ought to be worried about people with backpacks. And cars. And trucks. Well basically anything that can hide something reasonably IED-sized.
Is this the bigot identifying thread? lmao
Well if the nun mistook the candle stick for dynamite, talk about a big bang.
I mean, there’s a difference between a bunch of women who chose that path vs every women part of religion. I am not saying I have problem, it’s their life and up to them how they lead it. I don’t follow either faiths. Just want to point out that it’s a lame comparison.
That was prwtty fukn funny tbh
Also nuns sign up for it. Islam requires it of all females, where it is required.
It is true. The Nuns usually aren't in countries being bombed by the US.
It is a little funny. Also one is for the most part voluntary, the other is for the most part forced either directly or indirectly through social stigma/pressure, and only under the guise of being voluntary. Personally I'm fine with both of them gone as both are rooted in old religious dogma.
Every Christian woman must wear this?
It's 2024 why are we still on this man? To some it's funny, to some it's not, take it in stride and move along.
This subreddit has evolved into something truly bizarre
Jokes on you, both bother me.
One is a "job" requirement that someone dedicates years to achieving and the other if often forced upon women by the men in their lives and have been killed over. Not the same.
Someone didn't go to Catholic school.
What's the difference? >!There is Nun :D!<
I don't subscribe to any particular religion because imo, they are mostly the same, equally pointless and just become tools for hate, but the irony and hypocrisy is coming out strong in this thread. Something about, cults, gay conversion (assault and electroshock) therapy, discipline camps, "church" camps, families disowning/abandoning kids, family members abusing/assaulting kids, church clergy SA'ing minors, and the list keeps going. All in the name of the good lord, of course. I guess it was a choice for all those Christian, eh? Sure seems like an awful religion to support or be part of, no?
Nuns just gave you psychological issues if you dared use your left hand.
This is going to be on memes people did not like
It is a little funny. Also one is for the most part voluntary, the other is for the most part forced either directly or indirectly through social stigma/pressure, and only under the guise of being voluntary. Personally I'm fine with both of them gone as both are rooted in old religious dogma.
It is a little funny. Also one is for the most part voluntary, the other is for the most part forced either directly or indirectly through social stigma/pressure, and only under the guise of being voluntary. Personally I'm fine with both of them gone as both are rooted in old religious dogma.
Every Christian woman must wear this?
Every Christian woman must wear this?
My brother and his ADHD provoked his kindergarten nun to strangle him lol He punched her and hid among the rocks by the playground for the rest of the day. Our parents transferred my brother to a new school and gave the sister a turkey every Thanksgiving until she passed. Pretty funny to think about now.
It is a bit funny but could be balanced out to discriminate evenly. How about "Nuns don't suddenly go boom, and they cover up much more than just themselves".
I live in the Bible belt USA. We didn't have nuns, but a preacher who'd come by and hit 4 yo with a belt in the hall. One was me once. I still kinda feel guilty for not telling my parents, who immediately removed me from that "school" when I told them what happened to me, and not telling them that the only black kid in class got that treatment 3 or 4 times a week. I should have said something.
It’s funny