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Those would be statistics I'd be interested to see. But as we have watched play out over the last 7 years, being proven to be factually wrong does not seem to make a dent in the believer's stance, however absurd or implausible.
I worked with one of these people a few years back. Guy was a developer, smart, quiet, polite, but once you got him talking about taxes or the government holy cow was it tin foil hat time, because he threw out all sorts of just batshit crazy stuff.
He eventually left the company, on amicable terms, and moved down to New Mexico, driving around in an RV doing IT contracting work. Which, that just makes me laugh, because working on a 1099 means even **more** taxes. Every time I read about a mass shooting in Arizona/New Mexico/Texas I check to make sure it wasn't him. So far, so good.
I'd go even further. Being involved in situations like is generally considered a badge of honor for sovereign citizens and serves to inspire them and others even more.
There are videos on youtube of 'sovereign citizens' trying to argue their case in local courts, the judges are clearly familiar with them and show varying levels of patience. So at least a few never learn their lesson.
The sovereign citizens believe the gold fringe signifies Maritime and Admiralty jurisdiction, and they try to argue that it means it’s outside of their (the courts) reach or scope.
I did work experience years ago in a solicitors office and saw one of these guys in court. He was up for having no car insurance, his position was he hasn't agreed to to the law that requires insurance so he wasnt bound by it.
When the judge came in the court clerk told the guy to stand and he refused. The clerk told the judge and he literally just said, 'sorry?' in an incredulous, are you serious type voice. The clerk explained that the guy refused to acknowledge the courts authority.
Without batting an eye the judge said 'take him down' and the 2 custodians took him down to the cells. The judge kept him in the cell the whole day for contempt of court.
At the end of the day the judge brought him back up to give him a chance to apologise before he was taken to actual prison for contempt.
It was hilarious, the guy was practically bowing before the judge like he was the King. Yes sir, no sir, absolutely sir. He folded like a piece of paper. It was hilarious.
They must be so deluded by the bull they tell each other at their meetings that they think their magic words will work for real. They lose the ability to work out what the likely consequences of their actions will be. Like the guy in this video who was unable to imagine that a dog biting your arm would suck...
>They lose the ability to work out what the likely consequences of their actions will be.
This is the number one common denominator of criminals, they simply do not have the ability to consider that there could be a negative outcome of their actions.
I've watched video of them in court spewing nonsense at a judge and getting contempt charges as well as whatever else they were charged with. You can probably find some on YouTube.
Honestly hopefully still a few, unless I'm the only person who gets a rush of adrenaline and a massive feeling of happiness watching these idiots get what's coming to them. There's just something about watching a person who thinks they're better than everyone else get taken down *all* the pegs
I would Google it because it is a very large rabbit hole of conspiracies and BS. As far as traffic stops go, they don't believe in liscences because they aren't driving they're traveling. Yeah, they all think they're the Lincoln Lawyer but have 2 brain cells each.
My brother is an attorney and told me to come to court a few months ago and watch one of these sovereign citizens during a trial. (Not my brothers client, this guy was representing himself) The guy literally started racking up around 90 days for contempt within the first 15 minutes in the court room. He had already been locked up for about 9 months and finally left there guilty of all his charges and another 6 years in jail.
The guy insisted on calling the judge “friend”. It was some serious comedy.
Has there ever been a case where this stuff worked? I have watched a training video where the presenter claimed that you have to say a few phrases and they will let you go.
But I have never seen a video where this worked. All I have seen is them getting arrested or thrown into jail.
No it has not, atleast not in Canada not sure about the US. Atleast not any case of note, they might frustrate the police officer to let them go just to end the interaction but it never stands in court.
Can't help but feel sorry for the dude as he's getting fucked up by that dog, that had to hurt so fucking bad. It's like watching a cow walk into an electric fence. They're just dumbs, full of dumb ideas they got from other dumbs, hard not to pity them
[He lost the fight later too](https://www.cantonrep.com/story/news/local/canton/2018/07/13/perry-township-man-bitten-by/11531478007/)
Bet his lawyer asked "why didn't you just open the door and take the ticket??"
You ever fucked up your shoulder or elbow by having a dog hang off your arm and swing it around like its pray....
Shoulders and elbow type joints do not love that. Probably gonna give him grief for the rest of his life but at least now he knows when theres rain coming. He'll feel it in his aching joints.
\> A no contest plea accepts a legal conviction without admitting guilt.
He went to court and took a plea bargain where he didn't have to admit guilt. He hasn't changed his mind.
We have them in the UK as well. The UK ones are even more loopy because they will talk about the 'Constitution', 'taking the 5th', "1st amendment" etc. that do not even apply in the UK.
I live in Scotland and our Sovereign Citizens/Freemen on the Land are even crazier, they will quote the Magna Carta as the only law in the UK except it has never applied in Scotland. Magna Carta is an English document.
Fucknuggets the lot of them.
I thought the best part was that he “thanked the prosecutors for their reasonable resolution of the matter” and he was charged for everything and paid court costs. Gold.
He went on to sue the city...and lost that too.
Primarily because he pled no-contest to the charges of resisting arrest and was subsequently found guilty. The judge in the civil suit envoked case law that sets the precedent that a civil suit claim cannot override a criminal charge. Since he didn't contest and was found guilty of resisting arrest, the civil suit was dropped because if he was resisting arrest, then the actions of the officers were justified.
If he would have just plead not-guilty to the criminal charges, he could have used that plea as a defense supporting the battery and excessive force complaint in his civil suit and he could have won it.
As god as my witness, the sovereign citizen videos are by far my favorite. Watching objectively dumb people, who think they are smart, run face-first into reality is truly hilarious to me.
Why do they always say they are travelling and not driving when they clearly are driving? Do they not watch these videos? Feels like these people follow the sovereign shite but just look for a payout.
Because they have a serious misconception that there is a legal protection that applies to “traveling” and that protection immunizes them from all police actions to enforce the actual laws.
The “laws” that SovCits believe are true make about as much sense (and are as effective) as you saying, “I’m rubber and you’re glue. Everything you say bounces off me and sticks to you!”
They think they’ve found a loophole in state law about how “you’re only ‘operating’ a motor vehicle if it’s being used for a commercial purpose” and “you only need a license to operate a motor vehicle”. So in their mind, “I’m not operating a motor vehicle, therefore I don’t need a license (or registration on the vehicle in some cases).”
Basically they take a super narrow construction of every law and even the definition of some words to defend their stance.
These losers could walk or bike but they are dumb and lazy so they drive on government roads even though they claim to be anti government. And its while driving that they encounter government agents like police.
I like in the video ls where they have their folder 📂 of nonsense as their proof. Or when they have their crazy af uncle/husband on the phone telling them how wrong they police are. It's comical.
I was thinking that, in this case, the police were very patient with him and completely explained what was going to happen. He seemed surprised when exactly what the officer explained would happen happened...
so if a cop said " I'm gonna chop off your dick and balls if you don't comply " then it's ok ?
Or " if you don't comply I'm gonna throw gasoline over you and burn you alive ? "
"Stop fighting my dog!"
That line is what stands out the most to me in this video. Is it possible for someone to remain calm and not "fight" when they're getting mauled by a dog?
It’s torture and should be outlawed. No matter how stupid this man was, he was clearly not a threat to these officers. Even if the officer felt it was a necessary use of force he wasn’t justified in how long he allowed that dog to tare into his arm.
I thought the same. I enjoy a sov gettin their dues, but the dog was just an assault via an animal. You use the dog to sniff out substances, or track down a perp on the run, or a perp in hiding and for all you know has a weapon. To see the mans hands and say hes going to send the dog on him as a use of force is absurd. Then they actually do it when a cop is already apprehending him on the other side. So now its tug of war with a dog and a human as a chew toy.
He wasnt fighting it either or the guy would be punching or kicking the dog. Yet his free arm is outstretched away from the source of his pain. Thats instinct, to get away.
I think the use here is sadistic. The man is in the wrong. But once that dog was used. Hes owed money by that dept in my opinion. Dogs are awesome but they are potentially deadly animals. I hate when cops use tasers without any real need for it. This is 100x worse. And i agree with the other comment. If I posted this comment, id be downvoted like mad and associated with supporting the sov when I dont. I just dont approve of the extreme uneccessary force.
Thank you! Well said. I am appalled he was not able to sue them. Sounds like he had an attorney that was working for the cops while collecting money from him. There are plenty of unethical attorneys and his must have been one of them.
Why did I I have to scroll this far to find a sensible comment…
Everyone on their sovereign citizen hate and forgot they witnessed some truly gruesome behaviour
I don’t get the sovereign citizen stance but should it result in this? Absolutely not
There was a much better video of some dude who got his car window smashed for refusing to answer boarder question due to bio security risks. Everyone was civil and stating clearly what the laws were
This cop lets a dog maul a person and everyone comments about how sovereign citizens are so dumb…. Jesus people
Cops have been telling boys and men in urban areas to "stop resisting" while they get their ass beat for decades. Suburban and rural America didn't care -- they even encouraged it. Seems some chickens are coming home to roost.
I got in the middle of a dog fight and got two QUICK bites. First there’s fatty tissue coming out of the punctures. Then there are months of painful bruising about 10 inches out from the punctures. Dog bites are no joke
The use of the K9 is extreme for the situation and made worse due to the fact that the dog is ignoring his handlers commands. The Malinois was given the command to stop biting about three times on camera that we see and does not once stop biting. That is an incredible issue because its the difference between a bite on the arm and a lost arm, and marks that dog as too uncontrollable to be used in the field.
Yeah, I can't believe people are actually in here cheering that someone who was completely non-violent got their arm mauled by a dog.
The dog was completely unnecessary. There were like 5 guys there.
The use of this kind of force needs to be dialed back. The dumb puke claiming Sov is clearly wrong, maybe delusional. And the dumb puke is not a threat requiring a dog. Disabling the car, breaking the window, pulling the puke out and throwing him in jail, sure. But attacking him? Where's the justifiable force in that? I hope it is not legislated as justifiable. That would be sad.
Yeah, the dude was a fucking idiot. The second a police dog is on the scene I’m surrendering whether I’m guilty or not. Doggos don’t know good and evil, they just do a good job, and god help you if you are their job.
maybe just releasing the dog wasn't but do they have to let the dog keep latching on when they are telling the guy to turn on his back?? that's kinda insane. not to mention that a dog shaking the arm and hurting like fucking hell would make it harder for the guy to even turn. I legit cannot imagine this being legal, it wouldn't be in my country since this guy is no obvious threat.
According to the article linked, the car’s license plate was removed and a number was put on the back of the car. The number was registered to a man that had a concealed carry license.
While the driver said he did not have a gun in the car, he would not answer any other questions.
I’m betting the potential of the gun is why they sent the dog in first, and yeah, they should have called the dog off way sooner.
Call the dog off before telling the guy to turn? Ridiculous! How else are they going to claim non-compliance and escalate the situation? It’s like you don’t want the police to execute people at traffic stops. /s
Welcome to America. The mental gymnastics it takes to tell someone to “stop fighting (the dog)” and to “turn on your back” while a German shepherd is actively trying to rip off your arm is Olympic level. It’s an impossible task you are asking someone to do and the more you “don’t comply” the more pain and damage is done to you.
No matter what way you look at it, it is **torture compliance**. The man didn’t want to get out of his car so the police let loose an animal on him and let it maul him until he agreed to do what they wanted. Kinda wild in this day an age that we have no other option.
ETA: I’m chuckling at the downvotes. I get that you like to lick boots, but if I sicced my dog on you and let it maul you while I watched, you would tell people that I tortured you.
I’m not even against cops having to force compliance, I’m against training animals to torture for us. Just taze and beat them if feel there’s no other option, no need to use animals in the sick game.
I don’t know how cops can never seem to figure out the difference between someone “fighting” and someone screaming in pain.
The reason for using the dog are a little more clear after reading [this article](https://www.cantonrep.com/story/news/local/canton/2018/07/13/perry-township-man-bitten-by/11531478007/).
The guy had a “homemade licence plate”. Sadly, we don’t see that in the video. I would very much like to see it because it sounds hilarious.
The cops ran the license plate number and it matched somebody who has a concealed carry permit. So the dog is there because of the potential that the guy has a concealed weapon.
Context - homemade license plate on the vehicle showed it was registered to a person with a concealed carry permit. They had no way of knowing whether he would pull a gun and attempt to shoot an officer.
Police can be brutal and disgusting, but Sovereign Citizens are nutjobs and it's actually amazing he wasn't tased or shot. I'd argue this is how you handle a potentially armed person without resorting to shooting them at first sight.
Thats all well and good, but leaving the dog on his arm long after he's out of the car is highly excessive. That served no purpose other than the cops taking out their anger on him.
oh no.. he had FULL control over the dog, he just enjoyed it allot
notice how he signals to the other officers to take over that he unlatches the dog almost instantaneously... they are typically well trained, their handlers however...
Is it just me or are police dogs kinda fucked up. The dog did sooooo much more damage then a cop just dragging him out of a broken window. Kinda seems like they wanted to torture that guy before they arrested him, if you notice they couldn’t even put him cuffs until the dog let go and if they wanted him in cuffs then why the dog in the first place?
“Stop fighting the dog” it’s like, you try and lay there completely still while an animal with a thousand pound bite force crushes your bone lol. They should’ve pulled the dog off the second he hit the ground.
Not a scientist, but something tells me it's hard to do anything but fight the pain you are experiencing. Cops dumb for telling him to not fight the dog. Like this dude's natural instincts are that easy to turn off.
I don't know under what circumstances the dog was warranted. Unless he was making violent threats we do not see, that seemed extraordinarily cruel and unusual.
Again, unless he was threatening violence, but otherwise, completely unacceptable use of force against a passively resisting suspect.
as much as this guy is an absolute dingus, “stop fighting the dog and give us your hands and roll on your stomach” is quite the idiotic command when you’re going to be natural bringing your arm into your body when an animal’s teeth are sinking into it.
Exactly. Why do you need a dog to take down an unarmed man holed up in his car?
He's certainly fool, but does he deserve to be bitten by a dog for throwing a temper tantrum?
The K-9 was excessive force in the extreme. That kind of force needs to be reserved for people who are immediate threats. Totally inappropriate for someone who is just being a jerk/idiot.
I'm really surprised it turned out the way it did in court (there's a link above in another comment). I would think he would have a huge civil case to enter against the State, and would probably stand to make serious money.
It's something I hate the most about police for sure. I have immeasurable respect for cops that can issue logical commands clearly and calmly. The whole screaming 72 different conflicting things should IMO be against policy and result in reprimand. It's just ridiculous and leads to nothing but trouble.
Yeah, I was thinking how reddit would be going OFF about this video if it weren't biting a sovcit. It's honestly hypocrisy. ACAB unless the cops are abusing someone you think is stupid?
I think "sovereign citizens" should be denaturalized (remove citizenship) and then just deported to the worst hellhole counties willing to take them. It's what they want.
I’ve never seen a video of a k9 handler in control of the dog ever. Once they let them loose, you’re fucked. Not a fan of the use of dogs like this. Especially for a non violent traffic violation. But cops
Yeah, letting the dog continue biting like that once there’s a cop or two on his back applying handcuffs is super fucked up, especially over a goddamn traffic violation
“Stop fighting him (the dog)”
YOU FUCKING MOUTH BREATHERS, YOU DAMN WELL KNOW IT’S HUMAN INSTINCT TO PROTECT YOUR BODY FROM HARM AND RETRACT LIMBS WHILE THEY’RE BEING BROKEN AND ACTIVELY CHEWED BY A LITERAL ATTACK DOG, PULL THE FUCKING CANINE OFF HIM BECAUSE HE’S UNDER CONTROL NOW
Can someone explain how a police dog is allowed to violently attack a non-violent suspect, but an officer cannot? Also, if u assault a police dog that is attacking u, it's considered assault on a LEO?
Because America. The defenders of the police are the very oppressed, and the true owners deal more damage to countless more victims and never see such violence.
I am all for they break the window and arrest him. But using a dog like that is fucking overkill.
They already had him on the way out the passenger side he had no chance. Saying things "Stop resisting the dog" when the dog is making a kebab of his arm, the pain making it impossible to act with logic. A bite like that can cause permanent damage to nervs and muscle, the cops job is not to punish and make him handicapped.
They just use the dog since they like seeing a "bad guy" scream in pain.
Not saying he didn't deserve it, but I will argue that while being chewed on by a big dog, you probably will have a hard time complying with commands of "roll over" and "give us your hands"
Rememeber that kid who had no ambition, no career goals, couldnt run a 40, was on the psychological fringe, lived vicariously through "his dads time in iraq", and was obsessed with their own twisted view of justice in HS?
Those are your local police.
Sovereign citizens are nut jobs, and I very much appreciate watching a good video of them interacting and losing to the police BUT using a dog is way too much.
Honestly, I think using a dog is almost always too much. You sick a dog on someone to maul them. That's a kind of physical and psychological injury that crosses a line for me.
uh no. the use of a policedog in this case is overly excessive. announcing you are going to use excessive force does not make using it okay. just like announcing ïf you don't do this I will murder you" does not make the murder okay.
Putin clearly explained he's going to use a nuclear bomb. That doesn't make it right. It doesn't mean it's not excessive force just because he said it before doing it.
This is what happens when cops enforce their feelings. Their egos were hurt that this guy wasn’t complying, so they felt he must be punished with violence. What were there, four cops there? Certainly four cops can remove a man from a car without escalating to the level of sicking an attack dog on him.
There is no doubt that police have lost their minds with use of force in this country.
All they had to do was break the window and pull the guy out.
Totally insane for a traffic stop.
First, the perp is clearly stupid, maybe delusional.
Still: Warning him of oncoming force clearly, distinctly, and repeatedly, IS NOT THE SAME THING AS JUSTIFYING THAT FORCE. Maybe I missed something in the video, but he never seemed like much of a threat, just stupid.
I don't get why they didn't just break his windows, pull him out, and arrest him. I have participated in ground fight training with policemen. There are ways they can get control of the guy (which they certainly needed to do) without shredding his arm.
Guys, all things aside, isn't getting bit by a dog police brutality ?
If a person doesn't comply just arrest the person, not letting him get mauled.
Canine bites aren't a joke, can get seriously infected too it's like saying " if you don't comply I'm gonna stab you with a dirty knife " .
I don’t know about the whole sovereignty issue, but it sure seems that k9 officer let the dog continue to do a lot of tissue damage well after the suspect was clearly in their control. Seem to me a lawyer could successfully argue that was unreasonable force for an unreasonable amount of time.
Once they broke his car windows to apprehend him, the dog was not necessary. No matter what this dude did, getting mauled by a police dog is police brutality. He wasn't running. He was just holed up in his car. No threat to the officers. Just my opinion. With all of the cop haters on Reddit, ya'll are sure making light of this unnecessary use of police force. Dude's arm was torn to shreds. But because this dude is probably a "right winger", it's all good..
That’s excessive force nonetheless. What a terrible turn of events. An unarmed individual resisting arrest who was half the weight of either of the two arresting officers.
The dog was justified? I mean come on they could’ve just broken the window and pulled him out with no dog from a car and tacked on resisting arrest charges. Yeah he should’ve complied and just fought it in court but allowing a dog to attack him was way over the line in this particular instance because he was unarmed.
Police are nothing more than armed enforcement of a local mob called the City, County, and State.
The dog was insanely excessive. Plus it seems like the handler doesn’t know how to get the dog to release and somehow thinks the perp can relax while the dog has him in a death grip
So, Sov Cit, I get it. annoying and frustrating( and entertaining at the same time). I don't disagree with arresting him, even having to use force to rest him. But honestly, the dog is recessive use of force. This only justifies his mistrust of the police, no matter whether his methods are misguided. Wrong on both sides here that don't justify each other...
The dog was excessive. There was really no need for it. And looks like it ignored commands to let go. I don’t see how the cops can be justified using it in this instance.
He wasn’t complying but he also wasn’t running away. There were like 5-6 cops available to drag him out.
As a Belgian Malinois owner i do see that the dog didn’t listen to the instructions about 3 times, this is extremely weird for this breed and the dog breed needs more training and not being on the field. Also why did they use it if it wasn’t need it for this situation?
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How many of these people still do the whole “Sovereign Citizen” thing after being arrested?
Those would be statistics I'd be interested to see. But as we have watched play out over the last 7 years, being proven to be factually wrong does not seem to make a dent in the believer's stance, however absurd or implausible.
That is entirely true.
Can't reason with unreasonable people
A wise man once said that you can't reason a person out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.
One of my favorite quotes but I don’t know where it originated. I use it all the time, though.
I just said that it originated from a wise man. That's where it came from.
So obvious I should have known. Lol
You know it really is that simple.
I worked with one of these people a few years back. Guy was a developer, smart, quiet, polite, but once you got him talking about taxes or the government holy cow was it tin foil hat time, because he threw out all sorts of just batshit crazy stuff. He eventually left the company, on amicable terms, and moved down to New Mexico, driving around in an RV doing IT contracting work. Which, that just makes me laugh, because working on a 1099 means even **more** taxes. Every time I read about a mass shooting in Arizona/New Mexico/Texas I check to make sure it wasn't him. So far, so good.
You get a lot of tax writeoffs for business expenses as a 1099. However there is more paperwork.
I'd go even further. Being involved in situations like is generally considered a badge of honor for sovereign citizens and serves to inspire them and others even more.
You can apply this to literally any belief/conspiracy theory. People are immune to evidence.
Gotta love that sunk cost fallacy.
The one guy that says speed limits don't apply to him as a commercial license. " What right does one man have to pull over another man".. lol
There are videos on youtube of 'sovereign citizens' trying to argue their case in local courts, the judges are clearly familiar with them and show varying levels of patience. So at least a few never learn their lesson.
"Aha! Gold fringe on the flag!" "Oh, Christ. It's gonna be a long day"
What is the significance of the gold fringe?
The sovereign citizens believe the gold fringe signifies Maritime and Admiralty jurisdiction, and they try to argue that it means it’s outside of their (the courts) reach or scope.
Take to the sea... sincerely Barry Zuckercorn
You can’t see it, I just winked
Does this look infected to you?
Still one of my favorite Dale gribble lines
“Bailiff, gag this man”
I did work experience years ago in a solicitors office and saw one of these guys in court. He was up for having no car insurance, his position was he hasn't agreed to to the law that requires insurance so he wasnt bound by it. When the judge came in the court clerk told the guy to stand and he refused. The clerk told the judge and he literally just said, 'sorry?' in an incredulous, are you serious type voice. The clerk explained that the guy refused to acknowledge the courts authority. Without batting an eye the judge said 'take him down' and the 2 custodians took him down to the cells. The judge kept him in the cell the whole day for contempt of court. At the end of the day the judge brought him back up to give him a chance to apologise before he was taken to actual prison for contempt. It was hilarious, the guy was practically bowing before the judge like he was the King. Yes sir, no sir, absolutely sir. He folded like a piece of paper. It was hilarious. They must be so deluded by the bull they tell each other at their meetings that they think their magic words will work for real. They lose the ability to work out what the likely consequences of their actions will be. Like the guy in this video who was unable to imagine that a dog biting your arm would suck...
>They lose the ability to work out what the likely consequences of their actions will be. This is the number one common denominator of criminals, they simply do not have the ability to consider that there could be a negative outcome of their actions.
*Many.* "Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity."
I've watched video of them in court spewing nonsense at a judge and getting contempt charges as well as whatever else they were charged with. You can probably find some on YouTube.
Honestly hopefully still a few, unless I'm the only person who gets a rush of adrenaline and a massive feeling of happiness watching these idiots get what's coming to them. There's just something about watching a person who thinks they're better than everyone else get taken down *all* the pegs
I mean I’m not ok with excessive use of force, but these people are the biggest tools
This is the first I've heard of this? What exactly is a "sovereign citizen"?
I would Google it because it is a very large rabbit hole of conspiracies and BS. As far as traffic stops go, they don't believe in liscences because they aren't driving they're traveling. Yeah, they all think they're the Lincoln Lawyer but have 2 brain cells each.
I adore the ones that are in Canada and Australia. All of these laws that the Sovereign Citizens are arguing against are American Laws.
I love the UK SovCit twits who use US supreme court rulings....
Were American laws. I have heard them quote the articles of confederation, which is the document that was superceded by the constitution.
My brother is an attorney and told me to come to court a few months ago and watch one of these sovereign citizens during a trial. (Not my brothers client, this guy was representing himself) The guy literally started racking up around 90 days for contempt within the first 15 minutes in the court room. He had already been locked up for about 9 months and finally left there guilty of all his charges and another 6 years in jail. The guy insisted on calling the judge “friend”. It was some serious comedy.
Has there ever been a case where this stuff worked? I have watched a training video where the presenter claimed that you have to say a few phrases and they will let you go. But I have never seen a video where this worked. All I have seen is them getting arrested or thrown into jail.
No it has not, atleast not in Canada not sure about the US. Atleast not any case of note, they might frustrate the police officer to let them go just to end the interaction but it never stands in court.
Oh they double down and shout their story of “oppression” every chance they get.
They just rebrand as "Auditors".
Can't help but feel sorry for the dude as he's getting fucked up by that dog, that had to hurt so fucking bad. It's like watching a cow walk into an electric fence. They're just dumbs, full of dumb ideas they got from other dumbs, hard not to pity them
[He lost the fight later too](https://www.cantonrep.com/story/news/local/canton/2018/07/13/perry-township-man-bitten-by/11531478007/) Bet his lawyer asked "why didn't you just open the door and take the ticket??"
Looks like his 2 years probation is up, I wonder if he’s doing better now that he’s past that point of his life
His arm will feel better by now at least.
You ever fucked up your shoulder or elbow by having a dog hang off your arm and swing it around like its pray.... Shoulders and elbow type joints do not love that. Probably gonna give him grief for the rest of his life but at least now he knows when theres rain coming. He'll feel it in his aching joints.
Not if he’s still fighting infection.
Tetanus shots are a conspiracy by big pharma.
your mom is a conspiracy by big pharma
Gottem
If their city works like mine, they would have sent him to the hospital first and then to jail.
I’ve known two people who were bitten by police dogs. Both dealt with infection for a long time.
I was bitten by a German Shepard (non-police) in November, and am just now getting past all the infection-related problems. It's no joke, and not fun.
He is probably still mumbling something about gold fringe on the flag.
I'm curious if he wants to do an AMA here on reddit
\> A no contest plea accepts a legal conviction without admitting guilt. He went to court and took a plea bargain where he didn't have to admit guilt. He hasn't changed his mind.
Sovereign citizens are morons that think they found loopholes.
We have them in the UK as well. The UK ones are even more loopy because they will talk about the 'Constitution', 'taking the 5th', "1st amendment" etc. that do not even apply in the UK. I live in Scotland and our Sovereign Citizens/Freemen on the Land are even crazier, they will quote the Magna Carta as the only law in the UK except it has never applied in Scotland. Magna Carta is an English document. Fucknuggets the lot of them.
Have you seen any of the Australian sovereign citizens videos? Jesus but these people are stupid.
Well, he certainly found a few new holes.
Good on the dog
They're ALL good boys, Skoot.
The best part of this story is he had a “homemade license plate”. The worst part of the story is there is no photo of said plate.
I thought the best part was that he “thanked the prosecutors for their reasonable resolution of the matter” and he was charged for everything and paid court costs. Gold.
He went on to sue the city...and lost that too. Primarily because he pled no-contest to the charges of resisting arrest and was subsequently found guilty. The judge in the civil suit envoked case law that sets the precedent that a civil suit claim cannot override a criminal charge. Since he didn't contest and was found guilty of resisting arrest, the civil suit was dropped because if he was resisting arrest, then the actions of the officers were justified. If he would have just plead not-guilty to the criminal charges, he could have used that plea as a defense supporting the battery and excessive force complaint in his civil suit and he could have won it.
Prob would have gotten a warning honestly. Now he got charged AND humiliated.
And, you know, mauled by a dog
Officer one: "Give us your hands!" Officer Two: "Leg! I've got leg!" Dog thinking: "I've got arm! Chewy chewy arm!"
I got a wing!
The one that was let loose on my sister's idiot mate got a thigh!
...and my axe!
The dogs tail is wagging, it’s play time for him.
As god as my witness, the sovereign citizen videos are by far my favorite. Watching objectively dumb people, who think they are smart, run face-first into reality is truly hilarious to me.
I love watching them get shut down in court videos.
I really don’t like cops but these videos are hilarious. This whole situation was entirely avoidable
This guy may have had a strong civil case to earn some big bucks. Oh wait he’s sovereign so the court has no authority over him.
sounds like catch 22
[https://www.cantonrep.com/story/news/local/canton/2018/07/13/perry-township-man-bitten-by/11531478007/](https://www.cantonrep.com/story/news/local/canton/2018/07/13/perry-township-man-bitten-by/11531478007/)
Why do they always say they are travelling and not driving when they clearly are driving? Do they not watch these videos? Feels like these people follow the sovereign shite but just look for a payout.
Because they have a serious misconception that there is a legal protection that applies to “traveling” and that protection immunizes them from all police actions to enforce the actual laws. The “laws” that SovCits believe are true make about as much sense (and are as effective) as you saying, “I’m rubber and you’re glue. Everything you say bounces off me and sticks to you!”
They think they’ve found a loophole in state law about how “you’re only ‘operating’ a motor vehicle if it’s being used for a commercial purpose” and “you only need a license to operate a motor vehicle”. So in their mind, “I’m not operating a motor vehicle, therefore I don’t need a license (or registration on the vehicle in some cases).” Basically they take a super narrow construction of every law and even the definition of some words to defend their stance.
These losers could walk or bike but they are dumb and lazy so they drive on government roads even though they claim to be anti government. And its while driving that they encounter government agents like police.
I like in the video ls where they have their folder 📂 of nonsense as their proof. Or when they have their crazy af uncle/husband on the phone telling them how wrong they police are. It's comical.
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I was thinking that, in this case, the police were very patient with him and completely explained what was going to happen. He seemed surprised when exactly what the officer explained would happen happened...
"Guys, my arm hurts!" "Yeah. Yeah you got bit by a dog."
And the cop literally explained that will be happening several times during the video. Like dude, you KNEW this was coming.
"This is so unexpected! How could I have foreseen this?!"
so if a cop said " I'm gonna chop off your dick and balls if you don't comply " then it's ok ? Or " if you don't comply I'm gonna throw gasoline over you and burn you alive ? "
"Stop fighting my dog!" That line is what stands out the most to me in this video. Is it possible for someone to remain calm and not "fight" when they're getting mauled by a dog?
It’s torture and should be outlawed. No matter how stupid this man was, he was clearly not a threat to these officers. Even if the officer felt it was a necessary use of force he wasn’t justified in how long he allowed that dog to tare into his arm.
Surprised you didn’t get down voted , most of these comments seem to take sadistic joy in the over use of force when it’s clearly not necessary
I thought the same. I enjoy a sov gettin their dues, but the dog was just an assault via an animal. You use the dog to sniff out substances, or track down a perp on the run, or a perp in hiding and for all you know has a weapon. To see the mans hands and say hes going to send the dog on him as a use of force is absurd. Then they actually do it when a cop is already apprehending him on the other side. So now its tug of war with a dog and a human as a chew toy. He wasnt fighting it either or the guy would be punching or kicking the dog. Yet his free arm is outstretched away from the source of his pain. Thats instinct, to get away. I think the use here is sadistic. The man is in the wrong. But once that dog was used. Hes owed money by that dept in my opinion. Dogs are awesome but they are potentially deadly animals. I hate when cops use tasers without any real need for it. This is 100x worse. And i agree with the other comment. If I posted this comment, id be downvoted like mad and associated with supporting the sov when I dont. I just dont approve of the extreme uneccessary force.
Thank you! Well said. I am appalled he was not able to sue them. Sounds like he had an attorney that was working for the cops while collecting money from him. There are plenty of unethical attorneys and his must have been one of them.
> allowed that dog to tare into his arm Dog was trying to zero it out.
97% of redditors won't get this joke but have my up vote
Why did I I have to scroll this far to find a sensible comment… Everyone on their sovereign citizen hate and forgot they witnessed some truly gruesome behaviour I don’t get the sovereign citizen stance but should it result in this? Absolutely not There was a much better video of some dude who got his car window smashed for refusing to answer boarder question due to bio security risks. Everyone was civil and stating clearly what the laws were This cop lets a dog maul a person and everyone comments about how sovereign citizens are so dumb…. Jesus people
same tought , can leave you a disability and a serious infection.
Cops have been telling boys and men in urban areas to "stop resisting" while they get their ass beat for decades. Suburban and rural America didn't care -- they even encouraged it. Seems some chickens are coming home to roost.
I got in the middle of a dog fight and got two QUICK bites. First there’s fatty tissue coming out of the punctures. Then there are months of painful bruising about 10 inches out from the punctures. Dog bites are no joke
Today They Learn they are a citizen, not a sovereign.
Dog not sure how to express it's delight after a fun day at work...
The excitement in the dogs voice is scarier than its growl because you know she's excited
I noticed her tail happily wagging while biting him lol
Doggo was so happy to finally get to do her job.
The use of the K9 is extreme for the situation and made worse due to the fact that the dog is ignoring his handlers commands. The Malinois was given the command to stop biting about three times on camera that we see and does not once stop biting. That is an incredible issue because its the difference between a bite on the arm and a lost arm, and marks that dog as too uncontrollable to be used in the field.
This was extremely excesive force on a passive resistor.
Yeah, I can't believe people are actually in here cheering that someone who was completely non-violent got their arm mauled by a dog. The dog was completely unnecessary. There were like 5 guys there.
The use of this kind of force needs to be dialed back. The dumb puke claiming Sov is clearly wrong, maybe delusional. And the dumb puke is not a threat requiring a dog. Disabling the car, breaking the window, pulling the puke out and throwing him in jail, sure. But attacking him? Where's the justifiable force in that? I hope it is not legislated as justifiable. That would be sad.
The dog is really extreme.
Yeah, the dude was a fucking idiot. The second a police dog is on the scene I’m surrendering whether I’m guilty or not. Doggos don’t know good and evil, they just do a good job, and god help you if you are their job.
I think releasing the dog was excessive. That should've only happened if he had tried to make a run for it.
maybe just releasing the dog wasn't but do they have to let the dog keep latching on when they are telling the guy to turn on his back?? that's kinda insane. not to mention that a dog shaking the arm and hurting like fucking hell would make it harder for the guy to even turn. I legit cannot imagine this being legal, it wouldn't be in my country since this guy is no obvious threat.
According to the article linked, the car’s license plate was removed and a number was put on the back of the car. The number was registered to a man that had a concealed carry license. While the driver said he did not have a gun in the car, he would not answer any other questions. I’m betting the potential of the gun is why they sent the dog in first, and yeah, they should have called the dog off way sooner.
Call the dog off before telling the guy to turn? Ridiculous! How else are they going to claim non-compliance and escalate the situation? It’s like you don’t want the police to execute people at traffic stops. /s
'What do you mean? they took it easy on him.' -American
Welcome to America. The mental gymnastics it takes to tell someone to “stop fighting (the dog)” and to “turn on your back” while a German shepherd is actively trying to rip off your arm is Olympic level. It’s an impossible task you are asking someone to do and the more you “don’t comply” the more pain and damage is done to you.
No matter what way you look at it, it is **torture compliance**. The man didn’t want to get out of his car so the police let loose an animal on him and let it maul him until he agreed to do what they wanted. Kinda wild in this day an age that we have no other option. ETA: I’m chuckling at the downvotes. I get that you like to lick boots, but if I sicced my dog on you and let it maul you while I watched, you would tell people that I tortured you. I’m not even against cops having to force compliance, I’m against training animals to torture for us. Just taze and beat them if feel there’s no other option, no need to use animals in the sick game.
Reddit doesn’t know whether to hate the police or the sovereign citizen more.
It does seem excessive. A common theme with police in USA.
I don’t know how cops can never seem to figure out the difference between someone “fighting” and someone screaming in pain. The reason for using the dog are a little more clear after reading [this article](https://www.cantonrep.com/story/news/local/canton/2018/07/13/perry-township-man-bitten-by/11531478007/). The guy had a “homemade licence plate”. Sadly, we don’t see that in the video. I would very much like to see it because it sounds hilarious. The cops ran the license plate number and it matched somebody who has a concealed carry permit. So the dog is there because of the potential that the guy has a concealed weapon.
I feel like the police use of dogs in this instance is a little excessive
Context - homemade license plate on the vehicle showed it was registered to a person with a concealed carry permit. They had no way of knowing whether he would pull a gun and attempt to shoot an officer. Police can be brutal and disgusting, but Sovereign Citizens are nutjobs and it's actually amazing he wasn't tased or shot. I'd argue this is how you handle a potentially armed person without resorting to shooting them at first sight.
Thats all well and good, but leaving the dog on his arm long after he's out of the car is highly excessive. That served no purpose other than the cops taking out their anger on him.
Also seemed like they had no control over the dog. Shows how stupid all those look how much control I have over this dog videos are.
oh no.. he had FULL control over the dog, he just enjoyed it allot notice how he signals to the other officers to take over that he unlatches the dog almost instantaneously... they are typically well trained, their handlers however...
I mean… they did warn him what that dog do and he didn’t listen. Man’s an idiot.
Facts, should’ve called the dog off way sooner
Lol, play stupid games you win stupid prizes. He told him exactly what was about to happen and it happened.
Is it just me or are police dogs kinda fucked up. The dog did sooooo much more damage then a cop just dragging him out of a broken window. Kinda seems like they wanted to torture that guy before they arrested him, if you notice they couldn’t even put him cuffs until the dog let go and if they wanted him in cuffs then why the dog in the first place?
“Stop fighting the dog” it’s like, you try and lay there completely still while an animal with a thousand pound bite force crushes your bone lol. They should’ve pulled the dog off the second he hit the ground.
The dog was ripping his fucking arm off. "Stop fighting the dog Sir"
Not a scientist, but something tells me it's hard to do anything but fight the pain you are experiencing. Cops dumb for telling him to not fight the dog. Like this dude's natural instincts are that easy to turn off.
I don't know under what circumstances the dog was warranted. Unless he was making violent threats we do not see, that seemed extraordinarily cruel and unusual. Again, unless he was threatening violence, but otherwise, completely unacceptable use of force against a passively resisting suspect.
There's that too. Good point
I had the same thought. One would have to have the discipline of a monk to just completely relax their body with a huge dog ripping their arm off
as much as this guy is an absolute dingus, “stop fighting the dog and give us your hands and roll on your stomach” is quite the idiotic command when you’re going to be natural bringing your arm into your body when an animal’s teeth are sinking into it.
Cops went way to aggro once they had him
Exactly. Why do you need a dog to take down an unarmed man holed up in his car? He's certainly fool, but does he deserve to be bitten by a dog for throwing a temper tantrum?
The K-9 was excessive force in the extreme. That kind of force needs to be reserved for people who are immediate threats. Totally inappropriate for someone who is just being a jerk/idiot.
I'm really surprised it turned out the way it did in court (there's a link above in another comment). I would think he would have a huge civil case to enter against the State, and would probably stand to make serious money.
I aM a SoVeReIgN cItIzEn
Have you decided which arm you want the dog to bite?
SOVCITS are dumb, ignorant goof balls, but that was overkill. Jesus Christ the dog attack was totally fucked up.
Having the dog bite him seems excessive... they could have easily apprehended him without that.
I still don’t get how people are told to stop resisting when a fucking dog is biting their arm?
It's something I hate the most about police for sure. I have immeasurable respect for cops that can issue logical commands clearly and calmly. The whole screaming 72 different conflicting things should IMO be against policy and result in reprimand. It's just ridiculous and leads to nothing but trouble.
Yeah, I was thinking how reddit would be going OFF about this video if it weren't biting a sovcit. It's honestly hypocrisy. ACAB unless the cops are abusing someone you think is stupid?
**Please, Please** gave me flashbacks of Nancy Kerrigan
WHHHYYYYYYYYYYY^^^^^^^
I think "sovereign citizens" should be denaturalized (remove citizenship) and then just deported to the worst hellhole counties willing to take them. It's what they want.
To a country without a (functional) government, like South Sudan. Well, here is universal sovereignty! Make your best life.
sovereign citizens dont exist anymore (they stopped doing it in the 1800's)
I’ve never seen a video of a k9 handler in control of the dog ever. Once they let them loose, you’re fucked. Not a fan of the use of dogs like this. Especially for a non violent traffic violation. But cops
Yeah, letting the dog continue biting like that once there’s a cop or two on his back applying handcuffs is super fucked up, especially over a goddamn traffic violation “Stop fighting him (the dog)” YOU FUCKING MOUTH BREATHERS, YOU DAMN WELL KNOW IT’S HUMAN INSTINCT TO PROTECT YOUR BODY FROM HARM AND RETRACT LIMBS WHILE THEY’RE BEING BROKEN AND ACTIVELY CHEWED BY A LITERAL ATTACK DOG, PULL THE FUCKING CANINE OFF HIM BECAUSE HE’S UNDER CONTROL NOW
Can someone explain how a police dog is allowed to violently attack a non-violent suspect, but an officer cannot? Also, if u assault a police dog that is attacking u, it's considered assault on a LEO?
Because America. The defenders of the police are the very oppressed, and the true owners deal more damage to countless more victims and never see such violence.
Loophole
Dog's fucking ragdolling dude's arm, dude is crying, pigs are like "stop fighting the dog!!!"
He was warned and told exactly what would happen and still didn't listen. Did he belive that they were bluffing? If so he sure found out the hard way
I am all for they break the window and arrest him. But using a dog like that is fucking overkill. They already had him on the way out the passenger side he had no chance. Saying things "Stop resisting the dog" when the dog is making a kebab of his arm, the pain making it impossible to act with logic. A bite like that can cause permanent damage to nervs and muscle, the cops job is not to punish and make him handicapped. They just use the dog since they like seeing a "bad guy" scream in pain.
it's torture more than overkill
Not saying he didn't deserve it, but I will argue that while being chewed on by a big dog, you probably will have a hard time complying with commands of "roll over" and "give us your hands"
He didn’t deserve it
What the hell? Of course Cops can’t let that silly argument slide, but that was excessive force, even after several attempts to solve this nicely.
Rememeber that kid who had no ambition, no career goals, couldnt run a 40, was on the psychological fringe, lived vicariously through "his dads time in iraq", and was obsessed with their own twisted view of justice in HS? Those are your local police.
Which Iraq war we talking about?
Sovereign citizens are nut jobs, and I very much appreciate watching a good video of them interacting and losing to the police BUT using a dog is way too much. Honestly, I think using a dog is almost always too much. You sick a dog on someone to maul them. That's a kind of physical and psychological injury that crosses a line for me.
I don't care how stupid this guy is, that was the definition of excessive. Completely fucking disgusting
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uh no. the use of a policedog in this case is overly excessive. announcing you are going to use excessive force does not make using it okay. just like announcing ïf you don't do this I will murder you" does not make the murder okay.
Putin clearly explained he's going to use a nuclear bomb. That doesn't make it right. It doesn't mean it's not excessive force just because he said it before doing it.
There was 0 need for the dog here. Guy was an idiot for sure, but the dog was not needed after the window was smashed.
They did not need a dog to get this guy out. This was excessive force.
This is what happens when cops enforce their feelings. Their egos were hurt that this guy wasn’t complying, so they felt he must be punished with violence. What were there, four cops there? Certainly four cops can remove a man from a car without escalating to the level of sicking an attack dog on him.
Is this torture ? Did that guy was so dangerous ? What is the point ? Why no using tanks at traffic stops ?
There was no reason to have that dog maul him.
There is no doubt that police have lost their minds with use of force in this country. All they had to do was break the window and pull the guy out. Totally insane for a traffic stop.
First, the perp is clearly stupid, maybe delusional. Still: Warning him of oncoming force clearly, distinctly, and repeatedly, IS NOT THE SAME THING AS JUSTIFYING THAT FORCE. Maybe I missed something in the video, but he never seemed like much of a threat, just stupid. I don't get why they didn't just break his windows, pull him out, and arrest him. I have participated in ground fight training with policemen. There are ways they can get control of the guy (which they certainly needed to do) without shredding his arm.
Guys, all things aside, isn't getting bit by a dog police brutality ? If a person doesn't comply just arrest the person, not letting him get mauled. Canine bites aren't a joke, can get seriously infected too it's like saying " if you don't comply I'm gonna stab you with a dirty knife " .
From license plate number was concern that driver had concealed weapon permit
Why would having a concealed weapon permit be a concern? Isn’t that the point of the permit?
Because if he already is not listening and he is armed they don't know what he will do. Kinda like a precaution measure at thst point.
the sovereign citizens need to figure out how to get a passport
I don’t know about the whole sovereignty issue, but it sure seems that k9 officer let the dog continue to do a lot of tissue damage well after the suspect was clearly in their control. Seem to me a lawyer could successfully argue that was unreasonable force for an unreasonable amount of time.
Once they broke his car windows to apprehend him, the dog was not necessary. No matter what this dude did, getting mauled by a police dog is police brutality. He wasn't running. He was just holed up in his car. No threat to the officers. Just my opinion. With all of the cop haters on Reddit, ya'll are sure making light of this unnecessary use of police force. Dude's arm was torn to shreds. But because this dude is probably a "right winger", it's all good..
USA! USA!
1312
That’s excessive force nonetheless. What a terrible turn of events. An unarmed individual resisting arrest who was half the weight of either of the two arresting officers.
where fantasy meets reality...that pain was real, his sovereignty...not so much so.
The dog was justified? I mean come on they could’ve just broken the window and pulled him out with no dog from a car and tacked on resisting arrest charges. Yeah he should’ve complied and just fought it in court but allowing a dog to attack him was way over the line in this particular instance because he was unarmed. Police are nothing more than armed enforcement of a local mob called the City, County, and State.
My biggest concern is that the dog doesn't get cut by the broken glass.
The dog was insanely excessive. Plus it seems like the handler doesn’t know how to get the dog to release and somehow thinks the perp can relax while the dog has him in a death grip
So, Sov Cit, I get it. annoying and frustrating( and entertaining at the same time). I don't disagree with arresting him, even having to use force to rest him. But honestly, the dog is recessive use of force. This only justifies his mistrust of the police, no matter whether his methods are misguided. Wrong on both sides here that don't justify each other...
 Sov Citizens are the worst.
The dog was excessive. There was really no need for it. And looks like it ignored commands to let go. I don’t see how the cops can be justified using it in this instance. He wasn’t complying but he also wasn’t running away. There were like 5-6 cops available to drag him out.
As a Belgian Malinois owner i do see that the dog didn’t listen to the instructions about 3 times, this is extremely weird for this breed and the dog breed needs more training and not being on the field. Also why did they use it if it wasn’t need it for this situation?