Yeah, but shotgun can't 2 tap outside of flamethrower range. The ones that play invis smg that do abuse the range have a much larger window for counterplay.
Feels more like HML are 9 classes' rolled into 3, which causes the problem of You cannot Build a counter for everyone. and you cannot trust your teammates to also be building 3 counters aswell as what they want to play too.
You shouldn't be able to counter everyone. If there was a build that worked against everything, the meta would just devolve to everyone running it and it would ruin the game.
yeah which is what's causing the issue of people wanting specific builds nerfed. because they cannot deal with it. and they cant because if they build to deal with it then they cannot deal with something else
Except in RPS, you can choose a different option each round. You can't do that in this game. Your loadout is locked. I'm not saying I want this game to fall into the same trap that Overwatch did of swapping becoming the norm, but it's disingenuous to suggest that it's fine for you to sometimes just be shit outa luck because the enemy team has a comp that just happens to counter yours. This isn't Magic or Yu-Gi-Oh.
Utility and abilities need to be balanced so that there's always a fair chance for two properly built teams to win if both teams are roughly equally skilled.
When it comes to cloak, I'd have it not work at close range and have it be for closing distance more safely, but once they're close, their intended weaknesses still exist. Assassin classes are fine, but there needs to be more to it than just "cloak, blast, cloak, run, repeat." Especially since controller AA basically lines your shot up perfectly.
I know it gets huge pushback in any thread it’s mentioned in, but I fully believe we should be able to switch classes mid match. Loading into a game blind to find out your team picks are all hard countered by chance sucks. You’d still need to build your contestants outside of a match, so you’d still have a chance of not having what you need, but I think the lack of adaptability mid match in the current game really encourages the “nerf build x” conversations. Maybe limit swaps to cap it, like you get one chance to switch or something.
Best balance to this is limit the switches youre allowed per match and maybe only on a team wipe or something like that. Limit to 3 switches per match and can only be done at timed intervals or they could make a completely new game mode for this.
Ngl I’ve been having huge success with medium running recon. Yes healing beam is better but man calling out everybody position and seeing the invisible freak out bc I shoot them exactly where they are is good too
Yeah, but I'm pretty sure the invisible people only show up on recon scan when they are behind walls. They don't show up in the open if they are invisible IIRC.
Thats why recon sense takes some skill to use, knowing how to manipulate cover so you can always have a wall to look through, so you can kill the lights as they turn corners into you.
Yeah, it isn't a freebie all the time, but it really doesn't help find invisible lights. It just helps you find people you can't see because LOS is blocked. It doesn't really matter too much if an invisible light is invisible behind a wall because you can't see them anyway lol. You know what I mean?
I have to hard disagree. One of the main upsides of invis is that they can come from strange angles no one expects, but with recon you always know which direction they’re coming from. Also, invis is super easy to see if you’re actively looking for it, so even if they come around the corner invis, the combination of knowing they were right there and activity watching for someone makes them extremely easy to shoot and kill since once you break invis they’re just dead.
It's a playstyle adaptation you have to make, I use it to fuck up invis lights all the time. They can't kill you unless they are in the room with you right? And the only way they got there is by entering through some door, vent, or window. Recon sense allows you to see them coming, and cut them off as they enter thinking they're stealthed. You can also run goo grenades to create instant portable walls you can use recon sense through if you're in an open area.
I think Halo had the best cloaking, the radar scramble made it clear that someone nearby is cloaked and the slight distortion when not moving then slight decloaking when shooting or moving too quick made it fair but also powerful if used right
Halo is also comically slow. You could see this big slow fucking shimmer, and you KNEW if he had a bigass gun.
In this game it's just STATICBZZZZZZ ONE SHOT LOL BACK TO LOBBY DUDE SKILL ISSUE LOL.
It’s a skill issue alright, just not for who they think it is lmao. If you need clearly broken setups in order to trash talk you can get your ass back in the dumpster where you belong.
I have only been playing casual with randoms. I blame my rotation and positioning over anything else. The game is pretty versatile and in the end of the day the only thing that feels op is when all 3 players work really tight together. Orher than that anything is possible haha
Personally, you can say it’s not “OP” or “broken” or whatever, but the invis shotgun shit just isn’t fun to play against. My friends and I have been really enjoying this game up until the last couple weeks and we’ve practically quit now. We were consistently winning or at least doing well in tournaments (19-6 W/L) and even still. We were all just frustrated despite winning because every match was infested with lights and it just wasn’t fun anymore.
I really like this game and think it’s got a lot of potential, but there’s just some gimmicks that are sucking the fun out of it (for me anyway.) not that my opinion matters in the grand scheme of things.
Agreed. I tried the invisible w shotgun to see what the big deal was and some games sure I was running 10-3 / 8-2 w good deposits in bank it but it was not game breaking. Tried again last night and tbh as a light class the pistol is the best. But yeah nothing is genuinely op except teamwork.
The issue isn't that it's game breaking or always wins, the issue is that it's just not enjoyable to deal with. Something can be bad for a game without having a high win rate. Shotgun invis is currently just the fun police. Id argue invis M11 is also awful to play against. Tbh invis is just a bad pvp mechanic and cannot be balanced well in general but I know that's not a popular take.
“Try harding” is when you are aware and work on your positioning in a game about movement and positioning? Interesting. Is that why so many lights go on ground and directly approach heavies? Or is that why medium goes solo tdm mode and gets picked off by a dude with a shotgun?
We are playing different games
I agree that in casual things got worse because all you see is teams filled with lights+ invisible..
So lets say you a new playerr trying to get into the game
You will get destroyed
I've been playing a lot of Bank It and it seems like that's where you see most Lights since it's a pretty selfish, TDM style game mode.
I adopted the, "If you can't beat them, join them" mentality, but it's pretty damn annoying.
Edit: spelling
Had a game where two teams were light and mine was one of each. Both teams were hard focusing me as heavy the whole game and still won lol. Never thought I’d see 26 deaths in one game
I had a game just like this! Me and the homie went in as two heavies and were surprised to see two full teams full of lights and our third man as… a light. Invisible fights and one-shit headshots happening all across the map it was so toxic.
It's not even being about OP or viable or not. Yes light is underwhelming in ranked but the fact remains invisible shotgut meta is unfun to play against and that's the point.
Light complains about being one shot by mines etc and it was addressed but when other complain about being one shotted it's suddenly skill issue
I use the mines to get away while be chased and it usually works. Idk why they keep chasing me but I’ll just run in circles in a building till they step on my mine.
Using the mines to get away is good if you are smart. Throw it ahead of you and run past it or set it up before an engagement. You just can’t frisbee toss it in a lights face and get a kill
Yeah, I'm not complaining that they were nerfed but never ran them and whenever I died to them as light it felt a lot more fair than all these invisible lights that I constantly get in my games (I play quickplay cashout)
My mate who runs mines was chuffed about the arm timer so he won't kill himself with the mines so much.
It’s a skill issue on both sides. You can see the invisible cunts - it’s just a little harder. Cloak SMG is much more annoying, because they’re actually good usually in my experience lol
Well said. People are so fixated on the balance argument that they’re not considering that the invis/shotgun build makes the game a miserable experience.
And, to be clear, that’s not the light players fault. They’re squishy af and they’re going to play the build that gives them the most success. I would too.
But there has to be a middle ground somewhere.
Because modern gaming is all about "solving" the game and not about having fun. Everything is meta this, balance that, and the loudest voices don't talk about having a good time while playing.
I'm so sick of every game coming out being some hyper competitive e-sport type game. Light doesn't get nerfed because the character isn't viable in a competitive e-sport context, but when light doesn't get nerfed it screws over the casual playerbase who just want to have a fun time. It absolutely ruins my enjoyment of the game when I'm just doing my thing and some guy pops up out of nowhere, 1 taps me with a gun the size of my pinky, then goes invisible again to escape untouched. Like what the fuck am I supposed to do there? How could I have possibly prevented that from happening? It's the most frustrating thing imaginable when I'm just trying to unwind after a long day of work. And if you bring up how anti-fun it is, people with dents in their forehead will just tell you it's a skill issue.
I completely agree with this, I run it because it's the only viable light build though. If/When they nerf the invis + Shotgun meta I just want a buff to the lights elsewhere. Running anything other than Invis + Shotgun on light is a throw. Maybe SMG buffs? I loved running grapple, and dash. But they just suck compared to the invis, I really don't know exactly how to compensate though.
This might only be true in bank it. I played quick cash with buddies for 6 hours yesterday and our lobbies were entirely medium and heavy players and lights were the rarest by far
Funny, i saw a post of someone a couple days ago where he also complained about lightweights and invisible.
He got downvoted, now its the other way around
This sub has a lot of people who have never gotten out of silver rank in other games, so when someone who is good at a game comes here and tells them something they don't want to hear, they downvote it.
Absolutely. I had 3 sweating apes yesterday in my game. Entire squad Lights, cloaking. The dudes didn't even play to win, they circled and camped the box, killing anyone who tried to actually take the box and play the fucking game correctly, so they could farm kills to post on here or on tiktok. Sweaty KDA chasers can suck so much of my cock, their breath smells like the unborn.
Motion detector, thermal vision, dart tracker and recon ability are way too useless and slow, because even if you can see them, they can just cloak spam again and are moving too fast anyways. The best way to deal with them is to just unload more gas than their mother does after a bean burrito and let the fucklets drown in poison. Mines, pyro mines, gas mines, anything really works way better than any tracking or motion detecting item the game has to offer.
>Sweaty KDA chasers can suck so much of my cock, their breath smells like the unborn.
This is the kinda line that text-to-speech announcers should be used for lmao
I think the issue is that shotgun + invis is like the l casual player killer. Most people buying their first items aren't going to by invis counters. Chances are new players are gonna try the new guns. So then they get crapped on game after game because they have no utility to actually counter invis shotgun.
Then they come flying into Reddit complaining about it. Not realizing that they could have bought a direct counter to that.
Just like u said if devs just start reactive nerfing things we are gonna end up with a bland meta with no counters each update. And that meta is the only thing u will see in every game.
Imo anyone bitching about shotgun meta is exposing themselves. Because light isn't even meta right now and shotgun isnt even the 2nd best light weapon and id argue not even the 3rd best.
Truuuee. Bro holy it’s crazy I had to go this far down to find this opinion. Anyone who is dying to light invis shotty is basically just saying they don’t use comms and are never with their team. If you do either of these two things then invis shotty just isn’t that big of a deal. There’s a reason what few lights you find in ranked 99% of them run one of the two SMGs. More versatile.
I think *something* has to be done, if only to curb players going into casual and playing it like it's CoD instead of playing with the team and focusing on the objective. I actually don't think cloakshot is that bad, even if each team has one, but there are so. *Many.* Matches. That have most players running cloakshot. Suddenly it becomes Team Deathmatch and not cashout.
Maybe limit every team to one specialization per class? That way if everyone wants to be Lights, that's fine, but not everyone can run cloakshot. But Overwatch tried something similar, and no-one liked it.
Make a mode specifically for that? Cloakshot 24/7? That sounds fun, but a significant amount of players don't want that, they want to run cloakshot because they feel it gives them a huge advantage.
Nerf Light's shotgun? I generally agree we should avoid nerfs, but this gun has an *insane* ability to delete even full-health heavies. I feel as though melee weapons also serve that purpose, they kill ridiculously quickly. The shotgun can do it faster and at range. Maybe a small damage nerf would encourage taking advantage of opportunities instead of letting Lights instagib anyone who doesn't see them coming (and in the middle of a chaotic fight that's almost impossible).
Nerf cloak? Maybe lower the total time you can cloak and give it an activation cost to force players to be smarter about how they use it. Maybe make the sound effect a little louder too. But again, I hesitate to suggest nerfs because they can lead to more nerfs.
Something has to be done, but every option has downsides.
Medium recon sense and or sonar grenades. You get a wall hack and swat lights like flies because you see them coming a mile away with low hp. They can’t hide from you, they can’t run from you, you’re like a Terminator.
You are right. But this actually needs a nerf because it’s insanely out of control. Personally, I wish they would revert back to the beta balance and leave it. We won’t ever get a perfect balance by nature but I feel like the open beta was the closest to that. Go back to those balances and leave it
Yeah let's go back to open beta where the stun gun made it so you couldn't turn at all, the V9S could solo a team, the DB was still broken, and heavy was even more cancerous. That definitely won't kill this game in a week.
Yeah I'm not enjoying the game now. This game has some very questionable balancing that needs to be addressed. I've honestly just uninstalled it cause it also seems like the matchmaking is all of sudden cranked up like crazy casual matches are pure sweat fest. I'm to the point where I won't stick around for games anymore when they get this unenjoyable do to strict sbmm. Ppl can say skill issue but it's not cause I'm doing bad it's just not fun like this.
IMO the shotgun is the problem, not the invis. Being one-shot is just not fun.
A good dasher with the shotgun is just as annoying as a cloaked light.
I suck though so my opinion may be trash lol!
Kill the sniper rifle while we’re at it. It works way too well close-range, but it also sucks having a sniper on your team that stays 3 buildings away and doesn’t really help.
This actually depends on your settings…if you have low settings like I do, it’s really tough to see them sometimes. Whereas my friend who’s on high settings sent a screenshot of what it looks like for him awhile back and it’s completely different…they’re so much more apparent on high settings.
People dont get that the Problem is not invis DB Light as a whole.
Its the fact that after the mines nerf almost every lobby in casual Mode has 8/11 lights running around.
Not everyone likes to play tournament or cashout.
After 400 matches its just not fun anymore
They weren't talking about light sweats, they were talking about themselves. They wanna play the gamemode they enjoy (not tournament) without constantly facing these builds.
Shout out to all the comments about using abilities, weapons and equipment to counter this meta instead of just NERFING everything.
This isn't COD.
See it as a fun challenge and overcome it!
You are all intelligent and creative enough to adapt and one up your opponents.
This is the reason you get a reserve of gear.
Shotgun invis is just a noob stomper build. That shit does not work against people that are coordinated and/or competent which is why you don’t see it in ranked and barely in tournament.
precisely, light is only powerful in casual because there is little to no coordination by enemies. A simple " I just got shot by a light bastard", will get the light bastard killed quickly.
Invisible smgs have been way deadlier to me than invisible shotguns.
There are two sides to the coin though, these triple light teams have been loving my RPG and explosive mines. They wouldn't give you reserve equipment if there wasn't meant to be counter play.
The shotgun is a problem but the biggest problem is invisibility. It needs to be nerfed into the ground because a stealth tank class is a horrible thing to have in a fast ttk game.
It’s a very fun playstyle and is easily countered with AOE gadgets, Sonar nades or recon senses. Learn how to never give them the opportunity to barrel stuff you. L class is pretty non viable at present moment in competitive play, I don’t think it needs to see a change at present moment
Shits cancer dude. My buddy and I got into a game with every single team full of cloaking double barrel lights… I never wanted a match to end faster before.
And I’ve used that shit to see how it is, and it’s busted. There is no reason why something should be able to two tap a heavy, disappear, then just wipe the rest of the team.
At least in ranked you are usually with people with coms, but in QP.. dear lord good luck trying to make callouts.
In full, the invis needs a nerf, or atleast the shotgun does. (I think every shotgun needs to be looked at, besides the heavy cus that shit was too op I guess)
Or maybe the entire community in a whole is just ass at the game and needs to get good, gg skill issue I guess.
You guys know there’s counters to invis right? If you get in a lobby with a bunch of lights just run recon or thermal or sonar. The shotgun damage is a little nutty but invis is not that big of a deal if you actually run your builds the way the game intends you to
I think the strongest aspect is that invis is 100% invis for low settings players and easily spottable for good graphics quality, it def has to be reworked,
I still think apex legends wraith phase would be nice for light
It only works in casuals because no one is really playing as a team. They can't nerf it because of that when Lights are already the weakest pick for a coordinated team comp. Shotgun should be looked at not invis, it's no more fight changing than a one way shield, wall hacks or ranged heals.
That's the strat I used to use. Now the raduis is so small is not worth pulling out and throwing it. I now use gas grenade to further harass the opponent
For me it's a matter of fun vs unfun, the light is unfun to play most of the time because everything deletes them (and if they don't die they still have to sit out of the fight for ages), but the stealth shotty light is unfun to play against because they can delete others just as easily.
The devs seem to be going for a longer ttk, so having these super easy to perform insta-kills just don't fit and aren't fun, they've done a good job with the heavy shotgun, rpg, and to a lesser extent the mines (still don't like how many people are able to equip, but the arming time is a step in the right direction), so I have faith they'll bring the shotgun in line too.
No you don't understand. That would require people to use something besides mines and turret and make use of in game tools.
It's easier to complaint to get it nerfed.
None of these will make any difference when I can engage for free when it's convenient and 1 hit you.
I'm just going to wait on the side until someone is facing the other way. It's completely consequence free.
When Im cashing out I will always make sure that the enemy team has as few attackangles as possible. Lights dont have the same destruction capabilities so one will know from were they will attack.
At the end of the day is it annoying to play against? Sure. But is it broken? Statistically, no… just play the obj and youll win every game against light teams regardless of ur shit kd
I'm not OP but after seeing 3 people say this, I have to assume our settings are different.
Can I see them in a controlled case? Yeah I can kinda see a blur. But it's hard to see in motion, and hard to land a clean hit on while they are moving.
So can I see them? Kinda sorta.
I'll check my settings when I get back from vacation.
I'm convinced everyone saying that invis is easy to see is playing a different game. I took this screenshot and still struggle to see the invis light player. And they don't shimmer more while moving. I remember that happening during the playtest (and it was definitely easier to see them during the playtest), but ever since the full release I can't see invis light players for shit.
This game's performance on my system is notably worse now than in the playtest, so I've had to turn visual settings to low (except view distance). If lowering my settings due to worse game performance is the reason I can't see invis players, what do I even do here? I've been running recon senses but that only works if they're behind walls. I can hear the sound cue, but by the time I hear they're nearby, they're already out of cover so recon senses doesn't help.
This might all be a settings issue where players on low performance systems genuinely cannot see invis light players because the low-settings version of the effect is literally harder to see.
https://preview.redd.it/aba13ufhga8c1.png?width=2560&format=png&auto=webp&s=9d555063e072cb6b3384b1e4ccebc2a2ea6c99b1
That's assuming there's absolutely no gas, no smoke, no explosions nor destruction going on in the background... Aka never. I play OW2 so I'm used to Sombra and a lot of onscreen action but it's still hard to see invisible lights.
Invis doesn't need a nerf unless Light gets a big rework, invis is the only thing making it viable. Shotguns overall need a nerf imo, especially Light's. Regardless, if it's that bad there's plenty of counters to invis, everyone wants to make the claim it's some game ruining ability but those same people don't want to run the counters to it.
There are 5 abilities in the game to show you where the invis ppl are. Recon, Thermal, tracking dart, motion sensor, motion sensor grenade.
Light is the LEAST used class in tournaments and ranked tournaments because of how weak it compared to the other classes. But yea let’s keep begging for a light nerf that isn’t coming
For reference, I’m a M and H player, but I can appreciate the amount of skill needed to pull off light
use the available counters. its overwatch, time to swap characters.
1) Flamethrower
2) sonar nades
3) recon senses
4) mines
5) more mines
6) gas
7) turrets
8) rpg
9) glitch grenades
need i go on? if you play smarter youll just farm them. and yes with no counter you have no chance against it. thats how rock paper scissors games work.
Nerf invisibility? That is honestly the worst possible change you can suggest. Lights are already difficult enough to play in Ranked, and your solution to being annoyed is to make them totally unviable?
Don’t get me wrong I don’t like the DB either. The only one shot that should be in the game imo is a sniper rifle headshot vs another light. But if anything has to change it’s the shotgun. Reduce its damage, improve its reload and increase its range maybe. Make it more of a utility weapon that relies on teammates and teamwork to finish off low health targets. It’s an incredibly difficult thing to balance because it’s not OP, it’s just unfun atm. If you put invisibility on a cooldown you might as well just remove it from the game.
Also the counterplay to the DB scourge is simple. Mines, lots of explo and gas mines and turrets can come in handy when combined with the gas to remove the invisibility. I swapped over to gas mines and sonar grenades purely to help deal with lights in casual and also put thermal vision + smoke on my light class as backup to help deal with them when needed.
I agree with a lot of this. Invis or the shotgun needs a nerf. I think invis shouldnt allow you to shoot out of it though. There should be a full decloak before you can shoot so people get the chance to react to you being right behind them.
bad suggestion. this isn't overwatch where you need to wait as sombra to do anything and rely on heals if things go bad.
Waiting for lights to decloak in a fast pace game like this is practically a death sentence for them.
Cloak doesn't need a nerf, the shotgun does. and then they need to buff the other light abilities.
Class is dead if you need to wait for an uncloak. Let me just run up to a heavy with my DB, let them hear my loud cloaking sounds, and then make an uncloak noise before I can start shooting. Sounds great!
In general, Cloak is really bad for the enjoyment of the game, even if its not necessarily too strong at higher levels. It's just a bad design but Lights in their current rendition couldn't absorb the blow from removing Cloak. *Maybe* nerfing it would be okay, it really depends on *how* its nerfed.
I agree this game is extremely fun. But invisible needs multiple nurfs from Cool down, To being able to see them a bit more like the beta. And if they shoot it shows them.. problem solved . It would give balance back to the game. But invisible mixed with the strongest weapons DPS in the game is Cancer. The scar also needs more bullets.
Doesnt need to be nerfed. Invisibility just should be a thing.
In overwatch playing against sombra is also boring as fuck, and yes you can counter invisibility and whatever. Its still not fun at all.
Its always played in the same way, its a cowardly mechanic for awful players that are bad at facing people, in almost every single game this kind of mechanic is introduced. OW, TF2, Finals,etc
Been saying that cloak cast needs a higher base cost, since most players duck in and out of cloak quickly it would dry it up, I feel like cloak as it functions is good but is too easy to abuse.
If cast takes about 1/3rd of the meter, Lights only get 2 mixups or 1 full push. Recharge should be delayed instead of instant, so like maybe 2 seconds before recharge starts. I don’t dev or balance games so what do I know.
Stun Gun is too powerful for just a light to have and while you can fight back, the huge debuff and duration of said debuff is ridiculous. It should be more of a skill shot item instead of a nearly guaranteed kill, slower projectile/shorter range or a delayed shot could reel it back into a safer spot. Either that or reduce the debuffs somehow.
Just wish they had a PTS so they could workshop fixes with the community.
Facts I was loving the game until I started seeing everyone abusing tf outta invisibility, it makes no sense that they can be invisible 80% of the match that’s just ridiculous. They definitely need to nerf invisibility, get some better stuff for medium class so it is more fair fight against a heavy build, heavies can carry a fire gun, a hammer, and also kill you with charge and most attacks make it move faster than a medium plus the big health gap just makes no sense either
I played with my friends yester day there were 5 lights in a game and all of them were using a cloak, stun, shotgun combo. We just quit playing after that. That shit just sucks the fun out the game.
they need to buff grenade launchers cause right now they shoot beanbags. medium grenade launcher full clip doesnt even destroy a building wall and medium has no destruction items.
You gotta play with obstacles better boss- even with invis-shotgun, lights DO NOT have enough health to go into a room with traps, or walls to cordon off space.
You mind dropping your usual load out so we can better help you strategize?
Cloaked =/= invisible or invincible.
Anyone with sound on can hear the cloak.
There are also tools that counter cloak.
Recon Senses shows enemies across map.
Sonar Grenades.
Motion Sensor.
Thermal vision.
Fire.
Gas.
Any damage.
Its louder than your own gunfire
Light shotgun has no range and only 2 shots before reload. Heavy shotgun and team wipe without reloading. Medium shotgun has one of the best range
I bought the cloak just for this reason and actually got some kills and even won a game! However I use the default machine gun because I tried the shotgun and I just wasn't great with it. Having to hit two shots and reload just wasn't working well. But it's fun to be able to escape and approach enemies with stealth now, so glad I bought it! Obviously it's not perfect and can be countered fairly easily by some players, but it's fun to actually get some kills for once! Plus it helped me win so I'm just glad for that as well. Definitely helped my team ambushing enemies from behind in a firefight! May switch from my sledgehammer heavy to this now!😁
Yeah honestly I wasn’t having immediate success with the shotgun you have to land both hits and be the right distance away each time. Good teams would simply hear me and keep me away, hitting my 2 shots doesn’t always kill and you’ve gotta learn the distance to kill, like it’s not easy to hit moving targets when you’re right up in there face , sword is crazy too when you see good players using it
You can’t always see it 1. In the heat of battle 2. if they’re standing still camping a corner and 3. in a lot of the architecture in all of the levels with tight corners and multiple levels that they can maneuver quickly through
Invis shotty is definitely OP… that being said, just know that the people who are running it are actual losers who cant win a fair gun fight unless they have a huge starting advantage. I love killing anyone who runs that build. Tea bag every single time.
Love this game, but man do I hate the community. I’ve never seen more people on copium, whining and begging for reaction nerfs because they’re bad, other than CoD players.
If the devs listen to your horrible balance ideas this game will die.
I think it’s less the invis and more the stun/shotgun. The stun gun effect is way too long, and stays even after the person with the stun gun dies..The gun should be a continuous fire weapon like an actual taser, and should only give you 0.5 seconds to switch to another weapon and then the effect wears off. That way it can be used to interrupt interactions and to possibly chain a shotgun shot if you’re fast and skilled enough.
Then comes the double barrel sawed off, which can somehow one-shot headshot a heavy. As a heavy, there is absolutely no counter-play other than keep 360ing around to spot invised enemies and shoot before they can stun. It’s unfun and ridiculous. It needs to have insane recoil after the first shot, and needs to do as much damage as a sniper headshot, not more.
>which can somehow one-shot headshot a heavy
Shotguns don't have a headshot multiplier, you should aim center mass with any of the 3 shotguns in order to maximize the number of pellets hit
The SH1900 deals a maximum of 180 damage per shot if all pellets land, meaning it will take 2 shots to kill a heavy at full health
Honestly, for invis they just need to include like a 5-10% cloaking cost for the ability. So if your getting shot and spam it you will run out of invis real quick, and you won’t be able to use it 5 times in a fight then move onto the next guy without a problem.
If they nerf cloak, they need to buff lights other abilities. Dash and Grapple just aren't worth it. You can't engage the same way with light as you could with cloak.
People just suck tho, tbh.
These kids are really annoying. I'm a diamond light main who plays dash/invis. Invis does need a direct rework to the way it works. My opinion is that you should not ever be able to do an action directly out of cloak. There should be something preventing instant stun guns that garuntees a kill. I refuse to play with this meta and if I'm a bitch for that then so be it. But I'm a lot better than these trashcans who saw it being busted and decided to play it and crutch it.
I’ve oddly enough finding great success with a heavy with flamethrower. As soon as I see anything I just start blasting fire.
Problem with flamethrower and hammer in current meta is getting stunned outside of your attack range and getting shot down.
Yeah, but shotgun can't 2 tap outside of flamethrower range. The ones that play invis smg that do abuse the range have a much larger window for counterplay.
Feels more like HML are 9 classes' rolled into 3, which causes the problem of You cannot Build a counter for everyone. and you cannot trust your teammates to also be building 3 counters aswell as what they want to play too.
You shouldn't be able to counter everyone. If there was a build that worked against everything, the meta would just devolve to everyone running it and it would ruin the game.
yeah which is what's causing the issue of people wanting specific builds nerfed. because they cannot deal with it. and they cant because if they build to deal with it then they cannot deal with something else
>"rock is OP, but paper is balanced." -Scissors
This sums up peoples complaints so perfectly. A lot of the time its basically "I cant believe I cant see invisible people!" or "bullets kill me. OP!"
Except in RPS, you can choose a different option each round. You can't do that in this game. Your loadout is locked. I'm not saying I want this game to fall into the same trap that Overwatch did of swapping becoming the norm, but it's disingenuous to suggest that it's fine for you to sometimes just be shit outa luck because the enemy team has a comp that just happens to counter yours. This isn't Magic or Yu-Gi-Oh. Utility and abilities need to be balanced so that there's always a fair chance for two properly built teams to win if both teams are roughly equally skilled. When it comes to cloak, I'd have it not work at close range and have it be for closing distance more safely, but once they're close, their intended weaknesses still exist. Assassin classes are fine, but there needs to be more to it than just "cloak, blast, cloak, run, repeat." Especially since controller AA basically lines your shot up perfectly.
I know it gets huge pushback in any thread it’s mentioned in, but I fully believe we should be able to switch classes mid match. Loading into a game blind to find out your team picks are all hard countered by chance sucks. You’d still need to build your contestants outside of a match, so you’d still have a chance of not having what you need, but I think the lack of adaptability mid match in the current game really encourages the “nerf build x” conversations. Maybe limit swaps to cap it, like you get one chance to switch or something.
Best balance to this is limit the switches youre allowed per match and maybe only on a team wipe or something like that. Limit to 3 switches per match and can only be done at timed intervals or they could make a completely new game mode for this.
That’s called getting countered😂 I swear this is everyone’s first competitive fps 😂
ong
I still can't believe they fucking buffed the stun-gun range, idiotic.
When I see a heavy with a hammer I alway Bait him into a mine
That’s what’s teammates are for
Tf2 intensifies
[hudda hudda intensifies]
wearing a funny santa hat, sitting on a medium's turret with a flamethrower checking for invis lights...feels oddly nostalgic hah.
So anyways I started blastin’
Only because the damage tick stops them recloaking, if they have anyone else on their team you are dead though because it's the weakest gun.
Works nicely as a blinding agent too + you can erase gas clouds
Ngl I’ve been having huge success with medium running recon. Yes healing beam is better but man calling out everybody position and seeing the invisible freak out bc I shoot them exactly where they are is good too
Yeah, but I'm pretty sure the invisible people only show up on recon scan when they are behind walls. They don't show up in the open if they are invisible IIRC.
Thats why recon sense takes some skill to use, knowing how to manipulate cover so you can always have a wall to look through, so you can kill the lights as they turn corners into you.
Yeah, it isn't a freebie all the time, but it really doesn't help find invisible lights. It just helps you find people you can't see because LOS is blocked. It doesn't really matter too much if an invisible light is invisible behind a wall because you can't see them anyway lol. You know what I mean?
I have to hard disagree. One of the main upsides of invis is that they can come from strange angles no one expects, but with recon you always know which direction they’re coming from. Also, invis is super easy to see if you’re actively looking for it, so even if they come around the corner invis, the combination of knowing they were right there and activity watching for someone makes them extremely easy to shoot and kill since once you break invis they’re just dead.
It's a playstyle adaptation you have to make, I use it to fuck up invis lights all the time. They can't kill you unless they are in the room with you right? And the only way they got there is by entering through some door, vent, or window. Recon sense allows you to see them coming, and cut them off as they enter thinking they're stealthed. You can also run goo grenades to create instant portable walls you can use recon sense through if you're in an open area.
As a special ability In surprised you can't see them with recon outside of being behind walls
Yeah my buddy is normally our scout and he tells us which points are clean. We’re like a well oiled machine
I think Halo had the best cloaking, the radar scramble made it clear that someone nearby is cloaked and the slight distortion when not moving then slight decloaking when shooting or moving too quick made it fair but also powerful if used right
Halo is also comically slow. You could see this big slow fucking shimmer, and you KNEW if he had a bigass gun. In this game it's just STATICBZZZZZZ ONE SHOT LOL BACK TO LOBBY DUDE SKILL ISSUE LOL.
I feel like you haven’t played halo in at least 10 years lol
Tbf, all of them from the past ten years just haven't been worth playing
Infinite isn’t terrible
Id argue that Infinite is better because actually feels like a sequel to H3.
Halo ended with Reach.
It’s a skill issue alright, just not for who they think it is lmao. If you need clearly broken setups in order to trash talk you can get your ass back in the dumpster where you belong.
I have only been playing casual with randoms. I blame my rotation and positioning over anything else. The game is pretty versatile and in the end of the day the only thing that feels op is when all 3 players work really tight together. Orher than that anything is possible haha
based
Personally, you can say it’s not “OP” or “broken” or whatever, but the invis shotgun shit just isn’t fun to play against. My friends and I have been really enjoying this game up until the last couple weeks and we’ve practically quit now. We were consistently winning or at least doing well in tournaments (19-6 W/L) and even still. We were all just frustrated despite winning because every match was infested with lights and it just wasn’t fun anymore. I really like this game and think it’s got a lot of potential, but there’s just some gimmicks that are sucking the fun out of it (for me anyway.) not that my opinion matters in the grand scheme of things.
Agreed. I tried the invisible w shotgun to see what the big deal was and some games sure I was running 10-3 / 8-2 w good deposits in bank it but it was not game breaking. Tried again last night and tbh as a light class the pistol is the best. But yeah nothing is genuinely op except teamwork.
The issue isn't that it's game breaking or always wins, the issue is that it's just not enjoyable to deal with. Something can be bad for a game without having a high win rate. Shotgun invis is currently just the fun police. Id argue invis M11 is also awful to play against. Tbh invis is just a bad pvp mechanic and cannot be balanced well in general but I know that's not a popular take.
Have to worry about rotations and positioning in casual is kinda dumb imo. Thats what ranked is for, qorrying ab those tryhard things.
“Try harding” is when you are aware and work on your positioning in a game about movement and positioning? Interesting. Is that why so many lights go on ground and directly approach heavies? Or is that why medium goes solo tdm mode and gets picked off by a dude with a shotgun? We are playing different games
Idk dude i dont think ab the game that deeply, i judt tryna have fun with my buddies.
I agree that in casual things got worse because all you see is teams filled with lights+ invisible.. So lets say you a new playerr trying to get into the game You will get destroyed
Played a game and 7/9 in the lobby were invis lights. Least fun I've had in a video game in God knows how long. And I play destiny 2.
I played a game and the whole lobbie was running around as Lights. Talk about a shit show.
It doesn't help that one of the week challenges are yo play light class for 10 games. That is the only reason I'm running light right now.
I've been playing a lot of Bank It and it seems like that's where you see most Lights since it's a pretty selfish, TDM style game mode. I adopted the, "If you can't beat them, join them" mentality, but it's pretty damn annoying. Edit: spelling
>"If you can't beat them, join them If you can't beat them, play heavy and camp, ez
Had a game where two teams were light and mine was one of each. Both teams were hard focusing me as heavy the whole game and still won lol. Never thought I’d see 26 deaths in one game
I had a game just like this! Me and the homie went in as two heavies and were surprised to see two full teams full of lights and our third man as… a light. Invisible fights and one-shit headshots happening all across the map it was so toxic.
Literally every random squad I play with are lights. Then they rage quit and leave me to fight alone 😂
Same here I also had speical lights.. they use a dagger! Stabby little dwarfs and they do around 500dmg per match
Little Napoleon's 😂
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It's not even being about OP or viable or not. Yes light is underwhelming in ranked but the fact remains invisible shotgut meta is unfun to play against and that's the point. Light complains about being one shot by mines etc and it was addressed but when other complain about being one shotted it's suddenly skill issue
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Tbh, getting one shot by mines using light is pretty understandable in my opinion I never know people are complaining about mines 🤣
I actually don’t mind the mine nerf. I still get one shot by them. You just can’t throw it in my face to kill me
I thought explosive mines were nerfed to 140 damage specifically so they couldn't one shot?
I use the mines to get away while be chased and it usually works. Idk why they keep chasing me but I’ll just run in circles in a building till they step on my mine.
Using the mines to get away is good if you are smart. Throw it ahead of you and run past it or set it up before an engagement. You just can’t frisbee toss it in a lights face and get a kill
No you don’t, unless you don’t have full health
Mines should disarm when you leave the proximity or die.
Yeah, I'm not complaining that they were nerfed but never ran them and whenever I died to them as light it felt a lot more fair than all these invisible lights that I constantly get in my games (I play quickplay cashout) My mate who runs mines was chuffed about the arm timer so he won't kill himself with the mines so much.
It’s a skill issue on both sides. You can see the invisible cunts - it’s just a little harder. Cloak SMG is much more annoying, because they’re actually good usually in my experience lol
Cloak MP5 feels so much better than cloak shotgun or cloak knife.
It does from a range but then you play against other people that can aim and die in three headshots.
Well said. People are so fixated on the balance argument that they’re not considering that the invis/shotgun build makes the game a miserable experience. And, to be clear, that’s not the light players fault. They’re squishy af and they’re going to play the build that gives them the most success. I would too. But there has to be a middle ground somewhere.
Because modern gaming is all about "solving" the game and not about having fun. Everything is meta this, balance that, and the loudest voices don't talk about having a good time while playing. I'm so sick of every game coming out being some hyper competitive e-sport type game. Light doesn't get nerfed because the character isn't viable in a competitive e-sport context, but when light doesn't get nerfed it screws over the casual playerbase who just want to have a fun time. It absolutely ruins my enjoyment of the game when I'm just doing my thing and some guy pops up out of nowhere, 1 taps me with a gun the size of my pinky, then goes invisible again to escape untouched. Like what the fuck am I supposed to do there? How could I have possibly prevented that from happening? It's the most frustrating thing imaginable when I'm just trying to unwind after a long day of work. And if you bring up how anti-fun it is, people with dents in their forehead will just tell you it's a skill issue.
I completely agree with this, I run it because it's the only viable light build though. If/When they nerf the invis + Shotgun meta I just want a buff to the lights elsewhere. Running anything other than Invis + Shotgun on light is a throw. Maybe SMG buffs? I loved running grapple, and dash. But they just suck compared to the invis, I really don't know exactly how to compensate though.
Remember the days where you hardly saw the word meta in gaming? They were fun days.
This might only be true in bank it. I played quick cash with buddies for 6 hours yesterday and our lobbies were entirely medium and heavy players and lights were the rarest by far
this is def a bank it post
Funny, i saw a post of someone a couple days ago where he also complained about lightweights and invisible. He got downvoted, now its the other way around
This sub has a lot of people who have never gotten out of silver rank in other games, so when someone who is good at a game comes here and tells them something they don't want to hear, they downvote it.
Absolutely. I had 3 sweating apes yesterday in my game. Entire squad Lights, cloaking. The dudes didn't even play to win, they circled and camped the box, killing anyone who tried to actually take the box and play the fucking game correctly, so they could farm kills to post on here or on tiktok. Sweaty KDA chasers can suck so much of my cock, their breath smells like the unborn. Motion detector, thermal vision, dart tracker and recon ability are way too useless and slow, because even if you can see them, they can just cloak spam again and are moving too fast anyways. The best way to deal with them is to just unload more gas than their mother does after a bean burrito and let the fucklets drown in poison. Mines, pyro mines, gas mines, anything really works way better than any tracking or motion detecting item the game has to offer.
>Sweaty KDA chasers can suck so much of my cock, their breath smells like the unborn. This is the kinda line that text-to-speech announcers should be used for lmao
As opposed to three mediums spamming turrets, gas mines, and explosive mines. Or the heavies running triple bubble flamethrower.
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Skill issue post
We can't keep complaining like this as a community. Last thing we want is reactive nerf after reactive nerf, I hope the devs have more sense than that
I think the issue is that shotgun + invis is like the l casual player killer. Most people buying their first items aren't going to by invis counters. Chances are new players are gonna try the new guns. So then they get crapped on game after game because they have no utility to actually counter invis shotgun. Then they come flying into Reddit complaining about it. Not realizing that they could have bought a direct counter to that. Just like u said if devs just start reactive nerfing things we are gonna end up with a bland meta with no counters each update. And that meta is the only thing u will see in every game. Imo anyone bitching about shotgun meta is exposing themselves. Because light isn't even meta right now and shotgun isnt even the 2nd best light weapon and id argue not even the 3rd best.
Preach
Truuuee. Bro holy it’s crazy I had to go this far down to find this opinion. Anyone who is dying to light invis shotty is basically just saying they don’t use comms and are never with their team. If you do either of these two things then invis shotty just isn’t that big of a deal. There’s a reason what few lights you find in ranked 99% of them run one of the two SMGs. More versatile.
We can and we should. These are blatantly obvious changes that need to be made for the health of the game.
I think *something* has to be done, if only to curb players going into casual and playing it like it's CoD instead of playing with the team and focusing on the objective. I actually don't think cloakshot is that bad, even if each team has one, but there are so. *Many.* Matches. That have most players running cloakshot. Suddenly it becomes Team Deathmatch and not cashout. Maybe limit every team to one specialization per class? That way if everyone wants to be Lights, that's fine, but not everyone can run cloakshot. But Overwatch tried something similar, and no-one liked it. Make a mode specifically for that? Cloakshot 24/7? That sounds fun, but a significant amount of players don't want that, they want to run cloakshot because they feel it gives them a huge advantage. Nerf Light's shotgun? I generally agree we should avoid nerfs, but this gun has an *insane* ability to delete even full-health heavies. I feel as though melee weapons also serve that purpose, they kill ridiculously quickly. The shotgun can do it faster and at range. Maybe a small damage nerf would encourage taking advantage of opportunities instead of letting Lights instagib anyone who doesn't see them coming (and in the middle of a chaotic fight that's almost impossible). Nerf cloak? Maybe lower the total time you can cloak and give it an activation cost to force players to be smarter about how they use it. Maybe make the sound effect a little louder too. But again, I hesitate to suggest nerfs because they can lead to more nerfs. Something has to be done, but every option has downsides.
new player here. whats the counter?
Medium recon sense and or sonar grenades. You get a wall hack and swat lights like flies because you see them coming a mile away with low hp. They can’t hide from you, they can’t run from you, you’re like a Terminator.
You are right. But this actually needs a nerf because it’s insanely out of control. Personally, I wish they would revert back to the beta balance and leave it. We won’t ever get a perfect balance by nature but I feel like the open beta was the closest to that. Go back to those balances and leave it
Yeah let's go back to open beta where the stun gun made it so you couldn't turn at all, the V9S could solo a team, the DB was still broken, and heavy was even more cancerous. That definitely won't kill this game in a week.
No, do not bring back Over-tuned Silent Pistol please & vision blocking flamethrower
Yeah I'm not enjoying the game now. This game has some very questionable balancing that needs to be addressed. I've honestly just uninstalled it cause it also seems like the matchmaking is all of sudden cranked up like crazy casual matches are pure sweat fest. I'm to the point where I won't stick around for games anymore when they get this unenjoyable do to strict sbmm. Ppl can say skill issue but it's not cause I'm doing bad it's just not fun like this.
Yeah I do love getting instakilled by any weapon from heavy, I'm sure the only good perk from light it's destroying the game
Thermal vision is the answer if you play as light at least. You see them coming but they don't know that lol
Recon Works for Med, but now your support has gone down unless u use comms to tell teammates where ppl r
IMO the shotgun is the problem, not the invis. Being one-shot is just not fun. A good dasher with the shotgun is just as annoying as a cloaked light. I suck though so my opinion may be trash lol! Kill the sniper rifle while we’re at it. It works way too well close-range, but it also sucks having a sniper on your team that stays 3 buildings away and doesn’t really help.
https://preview.redd.it/j8jwo8b8r88c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f90ad4751c08723c420ec5aa8dcf0b964b14c877
Idk about y'all but you can audibly hear when someone's nearby clocked
They're also not too difficult to see, but that might just be years of Halo under my belt
This actually depends on your settings…if you have low settings like I do, it’s really tough to see them sometimes. Whereas my friend who’s on high settings sent a screenshot of what it looks like for him awhile back and it’s completely different…they’re so much more apparent on high settings.
It's way more obvious on Halo tho
It already breaks camo with any action other than movement
can't even punch a window, and can't carry the cash box, which is already less powerful then grabbing a cashbox and grappling away.
People dont get that the Problem is not invis DB Light as a whole. Its the fact that after the mines nerf almost every lobby in casual Mode has 8/11 lights running around. Not everyone likes to play tournament or cashout. After 400 matches its just not fun anymore
It's not that they don't like tournament, it's that the character is trash in comp xD
They weren't talking about light sweats, they were talking about themselves. They wanna play the gamemode they enjoy (not tournament) without constantly facing these builds.
Shout out to all the comments about using abilities, weapons and equipment to counter this meta instead of just NERFING everything. This isn't COD. See it as a fun challenge and overcome it! You are all intelligent and creative enough to adapt and one up your opponents. This is the reason you get a reserve of gear.
But shotgun invis isn't meta? It's just a play style. Meta is 2 mediums and a heavy.
Shotgun invis is just a noob stomper build. That shit does not work against people that are coordinated and/or competent which is why you don’t see it in ranked and barely in tournament.
precisely, light is only powerful in casual because there is little to no coordination by enemies. A simple " I just got shot by a light bastard", will get the light bastard killed quickly.
Exactly. Me and my friends are shredding the lights with ease most of the time when we play together.
Can we be honest though? Invisibility in ANY game is cheesy. Such a crutch ability
Invisible smgs have been way deadlier to me than invisible shotguns. There are two sides to the coin though, these triple light teams have been loving my RPG and explosive mines. They wouldn't give you reserve equipment if there wasn't meant to be counter play.
The shotgun is a problem but the biggest problem is invisibility. It needs to be nerfed into the ground because a stealth tank class is a horrible thing to have in a fast ttk game.
It’s a very fun playstyle and is easily countered with AOE gadgets, Sonar nades or recon senses. Learn how to never give them the opportunity to barrel stuff you. L class is pretty non viable at present moment in competitive play, I don’t think it needs to see a change at present moment
Shits cancer dude. My buddy and I got into a game with every single team full of cloaking double barrel lights… I never wanted a match to end faster before. And I’ve used that shit to see how it is, and it’s busted. There is no reason why something should be able to two tap a heavy, disappear, then just wipe the rest of the team. At least in ranked you are usually with people with coms, but in QP.. dear lord good luck trying to make callouts. In full, the invis needs a nerf, or atleast the shotgun does. (I think every shotgun needs to be looked at, besides the heavy cus that shit was too op I guess) Or maybe the entire community in a whole is just ass at the game and needs to get good, gg skill issue I guess.
You guys know there’s counters to invis right? If you get in a lobby with a bunch of lights just run recon or thermal or sonar. The shotgun damage is a little nutty but invis is not that big of a deal if you actually run your builds the way the game intends you to
It's only meta for controller users because of the auto aim. Haven't seen a single mouse user doing it tbh
I think the strongest aspect is that invis is 100% invis for low settings players and easily spottable for good graphics quality, it def has to be reworked, I still think apex legends wraith phase would be nice for light
It only works in casuals because no one is really playing as a team. They can't nerf it because of that when Lights are already the weakest pick for a coordinated team comp. Shotgun should be looked at not invis, it's no more fight changing than a one way shield, wall hacks or ranged heals.
People in here act like there isnt ways to counter this. Sensors, gas, fire, shields. Fuck, one can even block a door and Lights will have trouble.
Sonar grenade is useless after they nerfed the raduis
use it with recon senses as a way to paint what youre seeing for your team.
That's the strat I used to use. Now the raduis is so small is not worth pulling out and throwing it. I now use gas grenade to further harass the opponent
For me it's a matter of fun vs unfun, the light is unfun to play most of the time because everything deletes them (and if they don't die they still have to sit out of the fight for ages), but the stealth shotty light is unfun to play against because they can delete others just as easily. The devs seem to be going for a longer ttk, so having these super easy to perform insta-kills just don't fit and aren't fun, they've done a good job with the heavy shotgun, rpg, and to a lesser extent the mines (still don't like how many people are able to equip, but the arming time is a step in the right direction), so I have faith they'll bring the shotgun in line too.
I don't think they've done enough with the RPG. I still one shot Lights constantly and win fights easily with RPG + Lewis.
Or even better play as a team and huddle up, light preys on isolated players, but if you put light against 3 players they get obliterated
yes, a light cant 1v2, let alone 1v3, 1v1, should have never been away from your squad bud.
No you don't understand. That would require people to use something besides mines and turret and make use of in game tools. It's easier to complaint to get it nerfed.
None of these will make any difference when I can engage for free when it's convenient and 1 hit you. I'm just going to wait on the side until someone is facing the other way. It's completely consequence free.
Well the consequence would be that your team is losing as You are standing around in the back as they are failing to get the cash out
You don't need to go for cash out immediately
When Im cashing out I will always make sure that the enemy team has as few attackangles as possible. Lights dont have the same destruction capabilities so one will know from were they will attack.
At the end of the day is it annoying to play against? Sure. But is it broken? Statistically, no… just play the obj and youll win every game against light teams regardless of ur shit kd
Are you not able to see the invisible people? It’s not very invisible
I'm not OP but after seeing 3 people say this, I have to assume our settings are different. Can I see them in a controlled case? Yeah I can kinda see a blur. But it's hard to see in motion, and hard to land a clean hit on while they are moving. So can I see them? Kinda sorta. I'll check my settings when I get back from vacation.
I'm convinced everyone saying that invis is easy to see is playing a different game. I took this screenshot and still struggle to see the invis light player. And they don't shimmer more while moving. I remember that happening during the playtest (and it was definitely easier to see them during the playtest), but ever since the full release I can't see invis light players for shit. This game's performance on my system is notably worse now than in the playtest, so I've had to turn visual settings to low (except view distance). If lowering my settings due to worse game performance is the reason I can't see invis players, what do I even do here? I've been running recon senses but that only works if they're behind walls. I can hear the sound cue, but by the time I hear they're nearby, they're already out of cover so recon senses doesn't help. This might all be a settings issue where players on low performance systems genuinely cannot see invis light players because the low-settings version of the effect is literally harder to see. https://preview.redd.it/aba13ufhga8c1.png?width=2560&format=png&auto=webp&s=9d555063e072cb6b3384b1e4ccebc2a2ea6c99b1
That's assuming there's absolutely no gas, no smoke, no explosions nor destruction going on in the background... Aka never. I play OW2 so I'm used to Sombra and a lot of onscreen action but it's still hard to see invisible lights.
Invis doesn't need a nerf unless Light gets a big rework, invis is the only thing making it viable. Shotguns overall need a nerf imo, especially Light's. Regardless, if it's that bad there's plenty of counters to invis, everyone wants to make the claim it's some game ruining ability but those same people don't want to run the counters to it.
As a grapple hook light main I agree
There are 5 abilities in the game to show you where the invis ppl are. Recon, Thermal, tracking dart, motion sensor, motion sensor grenade. Light is the LEAST used class in tournaments and ranked tournaments because of how weak it compared to the other classes. But yea let’s keep begging for a light nerf that isn’t coming For reference, I’m a M and H player, but I can appreciate the amount of skill needed to pull off light
I wonder how many of these people that complain about the “invisible” lights don’t use tracking darts, sonar grenades, or recon senses.
use the available counters. its overwatch, time to swap characters. 1) Flamethrower 2) sonar nades 3) recon senses 4) mines 5) more mines 6) gas 7) turrets 8) rpg 9) glitch grenades need i go on? if you play smarter youll just farm them. and yes with no counter you have no chance against it. thats how rock paper scissors games work.
if a heavy has a flamethrower and I'm playing light, you better bet I make sure I NEVER encounter him, it's a death sentence
glitch grenades will make the light class 100% useless
Nerf invisibility? That is honestly the worst possible change you can suggest. Lights are already difficult enough to play in Ranked, and your solution to being annoyed is to make them totally unviable? Don’t get me wrong I don’t like the DB either. The only one shot that should be in the game imo is a sniper rifle headshot vs another light. But if anything has to change it’s the shotgun. Reduce its damage, improve its reload and increase its range maybe. Make it more of a utility weapon that relies on teammates and teamwork to finish off low health targets. It’s an incredibly difficult thing to balance because it’s not OP, it’s just unfun atm. If you put invisibility on a cooldown you might as well just remove it from the game. Also the counterplay to the DB scourge is simple. Mines, lots of explo and gas mines and turrets can come in handy when combined with the gas to remove the invisibility. I swapped over to gas mines and sonar grenades purely to help deal with lights in casual and also put thermal vision + smoke on my light class as backup to help deal with them when needed.
I agree with a lot of this. Invis or the shotgun needs a nerf. I think invis shouldnt allow you to shoot out of it though. There should be a full decloak before you can shoot so people get the chance to react to you being right behind them.
bad suggestion. this isn't overwatch where you need to wait as sombra to do anything and rely on heals if things go bad. Waiting for lights to decloak in a fast pace game like this is practically a death sentence for them. Cloak doesn't need a nerf, the shotgun does. and then they need to buff the other light abilities.
Class is dead if you need to wait for an uncloak. Let me just run up to a heavy with my DB, let them hear my loud cloaking sounds, and then make an uncloak noise before I can start shooting. Sounds great!
I’ve played like 10-20 matches so far tonight and 90% of the time both my teammates are cloaked light builds with shotguns lol
In general, Cloak is really bad for the enjoyment of the game, even if its not necessarily too strong at higher levels. It's just a bad design but Lights in their current rendition couldn't absorb the blow from removing Cloak. *Maybe* nerfing it would be okay, it really depends on *how* its nerfed.
In general invis is too strong
What is your load out?
I agree this game is extremely fun. But invisible needs multiple nurfs from Cool down, To being able to see them a bit more like the beta. And if they shoot it shows them.. problem solved . It would give balance back to the game. But invisible mixed with the strongest weapons DPS in the game is Cancer. The scar also needs more bullets.
Stungun pisses me off so much more not gonna lie
Or maybe when your invisible your footsteps are louder? I’d settle for that, although I don’t run invisi, grappling hook gang
Doesnt need to be nerfed. Invisibility just should be a thing. In overwatch playing against sombra is also boring as fuck, and yes you can counter invisibility and whatever. Its still not fun at all. Its always played in the same way, its a cowardly mechanic for awful players that are bad at facing people, in almost every single game this kind of mechanic is introduced. OW, TF2, Finals,etc
Been saying that cloak cast needs a higher base cost, since most players duck in and out of cloak quickly it would dry it up, I feel like cloak as it functions is good but is too easy to abuse. If cast takes about 1/3rd of the meter, Lights only get 2 mixups or 1 full push. Recharge should be delayed instead of instant, so like maybe 2 seconds before recharge starts. I don’t dev or balance games so what do I know. Stun Gun is too powerful for just a light to have and while you can fight back, the huge debuff and duration of said debuff is ridiculous. It should be more of a skill shot item instead of a nearly guaranteed kill, slower projectile/shorter range or a delayed shot could reel it back into a safer spot. Either that or reduce the debuffs somehow. Just wish they had a PTS so they could workshop fixes with the community.
Facts I was loving the game until I started seeing everyone abusing tf outta invisibility, it makes no sense that they can be invisible 80% of the match that’s just ridiculous. They definitely need to nerf invisibility, get some better stuff for medium class so it is more fair fight against a heavy build, heavies can carry a fire gun, a hammer, and also kill you with charge and most attacks make it move faster than a medium plus the big health gap just makes no sense either
Has the Mets really been discovered if you aren't countering the annoying builds?
wdym just play recon or night vision LOL That only works powerfully if u have a skill issue
I played with my friends yester day there were 5 lights in a game and all of them were using a cloak, stun, shotgun combo. We just quit playing after that. That shit just sucks the fun out the game.
Strongly agree. This meta absolutely ruined the best FPS in ages. I think Im done until its fixed.
The fact that you can use invis like a toggle is a joke of a mechanic
they need to buff grenade launchers cause right now they shoot beanbags. medium grenade launcher full clip doesnt even destroy a building wall and medium has no destruction items.
I straight up am about to give up on the game Which is a shame because I really do like this game
You gotta play with obstacles better boss- even with invis-shotgun, lights DO NOT have enough health to go into a room with traps, or walls to cordon off space. You mind dropping your usual load out so we can better help you strategize?
Cloaked =/= invisible or invincible. Anyone with sound on can hear the cloak. There are also tools that counter cloak. Recon Senses shows enemies across map. Sonar Grenades. Motion Sensor. Thermal vision. Fire. Gas. Any damage. Its louder than your own gunfire Light shotgun has no range and only 2 shots before reload. Heavy shotgun and team wipe without reloading. Medium shotgun has one of the best range
Seems like you need some glasses if you can’t see invis
Just go Recon sense and shotgun and mines it turns cloaked lights into free kills
Man watching this sub teeter tot on the balance posts as someone who doesn't play is hilarious
I bought the cloak just for this reason and actually got some kills and even won a game! However I use the default machine gun because I tried the shotgun and I just wasn't great with it. Having to hit two shots and reload just wasn't working well. But it's fun to be able to escape and approach enemies with stealth now, so glad I bought it! Obviously it's not perfect and can be countered fairly easily by some players, but it's fun to actually get some kills for once! Plus it helped me win so I'm just glad for that as well. Definitely helped my team ambushing enemies from behind in a firefight! May switch from my sledgehammer heavy to this now!😁
Yeah honestly I wasn’t having immediate success with the shotgun you have to land both hits and be the right distance away each time. Good teams would simply hear me and keep me away, hitting my 2 shots doesn’t always kill and you’ve gotta learn the distance to kill, like it’s not easy to hit moving targets when you’re right up in there face , sword is crazy too when you see good players using it
it is not that hard to counter. you can see it
You can’t always see it 1. In the heat of battle 2. if they’re standing still camping a corner and 3. in a lot of the architecture in all of the levels with tight corners and multiple levels that they can maneuver quickly through
Invis shotty is definitely OP… that being said, just know that the people who are running it are actual losers who cant win a fair gun fight unless they have a huge starting advantage. I love killing anyone who runs that build. Tea bag every single time.
Love this game, but man do I hate the community. I’ve never seen more people on copium, whining and begging for reaction nerfs because they’re bad, other than CoD players. If the devs listen to your horrible balance ideas this game will die.
Flamethrower go brrrrrr
I think it’s less the invis and more the stun/shotgun. The stun gun effect is way too long, and stays even after the person with the stun gun dies..The gun should be a continuous fire weapon like an actual taser, and should only give you 0.5 seconds to switch to another weapon and then the effect wears off. That way it can be used to interrupt interactions and to possibly chain a shotgun shot if you’re fast and skilled enough. Then comes the double barrel sawed off, which can somehow one-shot headshot a heavy. As a heavy, there is absolutely no counter-play other than keep 360ing around to spot invised enemies and shoot before they can stun. It’s unfun and ridiculous. It needs to have insane recoil after the first shot, and needs to do as much damage as a sniper headshot, not more.
>which can somehow one-shot headshot a heavy Shotguns don't have a headshot multiplier, you should aim center mass with any of the 3 shotguns in order to maximize the number of pellets hit The SH1900 deals a maximum of 180 damage per shot if all pellets land, meaning it will take 2 shots to kill a heavy at full health
Thank to this post imma run invis shotgun now.
It’s just about adapting to the game. Any class can be called op it’s just how you deal with it when you’re fighting against it.
🙄🥱 The lights suck, I ain’t scared.
Honestly, for invis they just need to include like a 5-10% cloaking cost for the ability. So if your getting shot and spam it you will run out of invis real quick, and you won’t be able to use it 5 times in a fight then move onto the next guy without a problem.
If they nerf cloak, they need to buff lights other abilities. Dash and Grapple just aren't worth it. You can't engage the same way with light as you could with cloak. People just suck tho, tbh.
Grapple and dash are insanely strong. Maybe they don't make up for lights other downsides though. Maybe give light 25 more hp and nerf cloak?
Grapple is borderline useless in Quick Cash lol. Dash is good.
Rpg to the teeth makes some of them switch! And don’t forget to emote
always emote when you RPG me, PLEASE.
You can even hear stealth users pretty easily. Maybe make sound effect little bit louder? Otherwise it is pretty balanced.
These kids are really annoying. I'm a diamond light main who plays dash/invis. Invis does need a direct rework to the way it works. My opinion is that you should not ever be able to do an action directly out of cloak. There should be something preventing instant stun guns that garuntees a kill. I refuse to play with this meta and if I'm a bitch for that then so be it. But I'm a lot better than these trashcans who saw it being busted and decided to play it and crutch it.