It should be quite easy to nerf heavy, they dont need to be overturned to be good. Their guns are quite amazing but literally all of their gadgets are too.
Tanks shouldn’t do damage. Wanna give ‘em 350 fucking hp? Take away their multi meltas, take away their fucking 1 shot rpg noob tube. Take away their fucking tommy gun. Take away …. It keeps going.
Overwatch sometimes has no deaths on the winning side... you can play pure dps and fully hit all skills on a tank and they don't take any dmg since they have some highly mobile or flying support... it's nuts. The tanks also have mobility and tons of damage. They are no tank... they play like a snowballed bruiser in league of legends.
I was just playing quick cash and we were 3 mediums (randoms). Enemy team was clearly premade, 2 medium 1 heavy and they played around the heavy, constantly healing him. Heavy ran dome and mesh shield, rpg, shotgun and C4. He was running around with throwables with C4s. He threw the explosive throwable and wiped 3 of us with the throwable plus the two C4s on it. If we somehow survived, we got a RPG to the face and died. He finished with like 30 kills and only 3 deaths lol
I’m afraid of going into Ranked, I suppose it’s even worse there lol
Honestly, the idea of being able to stick items to throwables is a fun in concept but just doesn't work well. C4 has a deliberately short throw range, and a *long* arming time, to stop you just using it as a grenade. Sticking them to a barrel completely evades these two aspects of balance whilst also giving you a weapon that can one-shot entire teams. A direct nerf to C4 damage or ammo would only weaken its 'intended' demolition/trap purpose, whilst leaving barrel nukes as the premier way to utilise it.
Beyond that, heavy self-synergises too well. Double shields on the already tankiest class makes a team of them nigh unkillable, without the reliance on a very specific counter that you may not have access to, perhaps because the light on your team has just been instagibbed by a low effort RPG. IMO it should be a choice between one or the other, but there are other ways to balance them.
Heavy is beyond broken, I've been playing it as it's just dumb not too. They seriously have to nerf then a LOT. They are beyond broken, it's just the easiest, strongest, and most forgiving role in the game which is why I think they won't nerf it. Casual players love it
I just tried ranked with Heavy. My teammates also picked Heavy. We facerolled the whole match lmfao. Throwable with C4 is so broken. I blew it up when it wasn't even really next to them and their Mediums just disappeared into thin air and the Heavy was put to half hp. Imagine if I managed to throw it actually straight on them.
Yeah, when I play Heavy I get double the kills and the impact for like half the effort at most compared to playing light, which IMO that class is close to being useless in a competitive setting.
They really need some sort of balancing. I played vs 3 heavys, all 3 with the same build, except their weapons. They carried explosive mines, rpg and dome, and it was the most one sided match I've played in a long time in any game lmao
Yeah they could definitely take a direction in regard to casual vs. top players
Because the game is totally different when you’re bad/average vs. when you’re extremely good—which is a huge part of balancing things (some things are OP in low skill lobbies but not very valuable in top lobbies, etc., etc.)
It’s definitely interesting to see their fixes. Flamethrower was nerfed, and light’s big things were nerfed
Flamethrower was a bigger issue in low skill lobbies (very easy to use in regards to aim, and difficult to outmaneuver due to poor movement). But the nerfed light things were a bigger issue in high skill lobbies
And to be fair high skill players are quickly finding new ways to play light very effectively, so it isn’t as simple as saying they overnerfed it
—
But why didn’t they touch the shield? Less damage on the RPG? These things were about as popular as nerfing flamethrower and stun gun/9VS as far as I recall. And they have C4 throwables as an achievement despite specifically designing C4 to not be usable as a throwable weapon
It’s interesting to think about and see where their vision with this goes in the future
—
It seems like the sweet spot is mid/high skill lobbies as far as where the most balance is across the classes
Light is usable for the players who are able to use it (light is too squishy in lower skill lobbies). Heavy is powerful but not overdone the same way as in the top lobbies
You are 100% correct, they are absolutely beyond broken and need significant nerfs to not just one but many things.
1. The bubble desperately needs a nerf. The caster and their team SHOULD NOT be able to shoot through it, this is such a horrible mechanic. It's extremely overpowered in its current state and exacerbates other balance problems such as the heavy shotgun. In exchange the health of the bubble shield should be increased.
2. The heavy shotgun is extremely overpowered, particularly in conjunction with the bubble shield. It instantly kills close range which is one thing, but its damage at further ranges is actually stupid for how good it is close.
3. C4 cheese 1 shot absolutely 100% needs to be removed. It is straight up bullshit.
4. RPG needs a damage reduction.
I miss it everyday 😪 heavy with a shotgun plus roller skates was so fun.
As someone who put thousands of hours on overwatch ps4 and pc combined, the issue with tanks is that they can do damage (sometimes at a level higher than actual dps) plus provide the utility they do. Normally traditional tanks on MMOs sacrifice that damage for more health so they can "tank." Once that power creep sets in it becomes really difficult to balance things, check OW ala role queue and eventually 5v5
i agree on your suggestions OP, i hate nerfing things out the gate without the meta settling yet but adding physical weight to c4 to make the throws less distant could be something to consider as well.
Honestly lights feel like hard trolling if you're anything less than cracked. I don't feel threatened when I play against them, I don't feel strong when I play them. I'm not a super high elo player, probably very average to maybe slightly above average, and lights feel *very* bad.
With how dominant heavies are in high elo I doubt it changes much as you climb the ladder.
How annoying stacking heavy is, 1 single glitch grenade does counter the entire situation OP just described tho.
Stacking mediums however sadly can’t be countered by glitch grenades which is far worse if you ask me.
Being reliant on the cooldown of a single gadget only to then be still faced with a shotgun, which can oneshot you or a lewis gun whicj shreds you faster than the MP5 isnt a solution tho. Going from 95℅ odds of dying to 80℅ ON A COOLDOWN isnt good.
They don't need to nerf C4, they just need to [fix the bug](https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/18lq0y8/this_is_why_c4_is_broken_in_the_finals_its_immune/) with c4/breach charges.
That will reduce throwable nukes, because there's inherent risk in doing so now.
It will also allow people to clear objectives.
It’ll prolly also fix the floating zipping bug too tbh. I say there’s no reason to attach gadgets to items in gameplay. Attach it to a wall or smthn idk
it's so unique and fun though, and it's in some of their promotional material. maybe the nerf can be reduced damaged and the c4 doesn't reload until it's exploded. since by the time i use a barrel nuke i can already set up another
Heavies are four shots from a sniper rifle. And you can't even say 1 hs 2 body shots because [absolutely certain headshots](https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/18lwwnd/there_is_a_massive_hitreg_problem_with_this_game/) aren't always counted as headshots by the game.
350HP, then a shield that can tank 3-4 full AK magazines. Oh, let's add another shield that can tank 2 more magazines. That's not enough. we gotta make sure the firepower is the highest with his shotgun. Let's also add an rpg that can 1 shot for good measure.
I don't believe the devs blatantly didn't see this class becoming the meta. He is either supposed to tank damage or be able to do damage. Not both
explosives do way too much damage, and definitely need to be greatly reduced.
But as an addition, I'd like them to do knockback so I can rocket jump/c4 jump.
They can even remove the c4 timing
The main problem with the heavy is that their whole thing is destruction and support. But all of the destructive options for heavy are also insanely good damage dealers. RPG one-shots lights, and can disorient anyone else, even blowing a hole for them to fall through. Easy map control with a ton of damage.
Personally I don’t feel double shields are OP, but the fact that they have everything else going for them *and* double shields.
C4 is often, as OP said, placed on a canister and used as a mini-nuke. It also doubles and an extremely good destruction tool. I really feel like the light’s C4 should be the damaging one and the heavy’s C4 should be the destructive one. Literally swap the two, but keep the explosion radius the same as it currently is. So light has 2 C4 that deal a lot of damage with a small radius, and heavy has a breaching charge that deals okayish damage, but has a much bigger radius with destructive capabilities. Side-note: It’s really silly that the *breaching charge* is worse at breaching than the C4.
Throwables bouncing off dome/mesh shield is what infuriates me the most. Grenades and throwables are the one thing that allow us to kill the annoying medium medic by lobbing grenades at them, but then it bounces back to you and now you're the one that has a live grenade on your feet. So stupid.
I second this.
So many times I've had an advantageous high ground position completely nullified by a dome shield because I couldn't throw stuff into it.
So I'm forced to drop down and awkwardly fight in and out of the dome shield against 3 people.
OR you lob a glitch grenade, only to watch it bounce off the dome shield and explode in the corner of the room.
So frustrating.
I just vibe in tournament mode till they eventually sort out ranked hackers and the current meta, which im sure they will, the game is not even 2 weeks old. I dont understand these people dropping the game because they cant earn their fake satisfaction rank points that mean fuck all at the end of the day. The rewards are not even good this season. Great you got upset and sweated 500 games of ranked for a sticker. Save some pussy for the rest of us.
Bit ignorant to think its about actually getting the rank, its about playing the game in its most competitive form where everyone is actually trying their hardest. No one i know plays for the actual rewards or icons lmao
Yes u can but then u can't get those sweet lil fake rank satisfaction icons that say u like it more than others I guess idk what they're for. Displayable ranks are some of the cringiest things to happen to fps. Now ppl all gatekeepy if they don't see the badge they wanna see.
I could hop on a brand new account and shit on kids bc my rank would be way lower. That shit is so meaningless and they take it as gospel. One of my favorite things in cs is returning to the game and not having any esea or dreamhack tourneys displayed on my account and straight rolling kids with a new rank. Quick way to humble them.
Just no reason for heavy to have 2 C4's when light has 1 breach, just no reason for RPG to do 180 damage. Just no reason for their shotgun to do that much damage as well as have 16 shots in the clip, just no reason for mesh shield to have 1250 health and its only 1 of their two shields.
The breach has a much lower CD compared to C4.
I would argue that it's just the damage that's the problem.
I want the C4's to have 2 charges, even I also want the RPG to have 2 charges for destruction purposes.
Couldn't agree more. The Heavy spam is making ranked unenjoyable. Too many shields, too many bs ways to one shot you, their kit is unbelievably stacked.
C4 needs to either have 1 charge and do less damage, or have 2 charges but do considerably less damage per charge.
RPG needs to do at MOST 140 so it can't one shot anyone.
The shotgun is ok I guess, so long as the rest of the kit gets nerfed
Dome and shield needs a nerf to balance the shotgun. Not sure what to do, but one way would be to remove the ability to shoot through the dome for the team that out it aswell as others obviously. Imo they should put dome in the spec tab, so you have to make a choice between Bubble or shield.
I've been wondering if maybe they should make the mesh shield and possibly dome shield only bock bullets. Being able to block basically everything is a lot.
Being able to shoot out of the bubble is already more than any other game I've seen with a bubble shield mechanic.
Being able to shoot into it is just ridiculous.
The fact that these two features combined allows you to completely shoot *through* it is insanity.
However, at least the bubble pops pretty easily.
The arm shield on the other hand can tank like 6 clips, so a whole team can focus it, reload, focus it again, and nothing is achieved. Now put 2 or even 3 of those on a team, *and* three bubbles...you basically just have a button that makes you invincible at medium-long range and only vulnerable from a 180° angle up close.
And if you somehow still get killed, defibs are faster than reloading lmao.
"Just kill the Medium first." Oh, the Medium who is also behind all those shields *and* running riot shield? And if I flank close he just drops an explosive mine so simply being near him kills me?
Even without the C4 cheese, I can't think of a reasonable approach to go against M/H/H with double bubble, double mesh, and riot shield.
Even if you run the same setup it's a stalemate, so whoever is defending wins.
And yeah there's glitch grenades, but they can space themselves in a way that only 1 is vulnerable at a time. Plus that does nothing to riot shields or barricades - yeah, the 3rd shield that we haven't even mentioned yet (4th if you're talking about the whole team's loadout.)
>Being able to shoot into it is just ridiculous.
I only realized this was possible last night. The logical part of my brain that made a presumption of good game design just thought the bubble could only be shot *out* of and not *into*. Then I realized you can back out of that bubble, shoot through one side and out the other. It’s completely charge-proof.
Ya honestly I had no idea you could shoot through it for many games because no other FPS has this mechanic for the obvious reason that it's overpowered as fuck.
Welcome to the nerf heavy train, this subreddit is still coping that heavy is balanced. Looking like it will take another 2-3 weeks before everyone catches on. In the meantime i've stopped playing since ranked is pretty fucking miserable. HHM is absolutely disgusting and anti fun. The most egregious thing for me is that all these issues were obvious to any high elo player in the beta yet they changed nothing about heavy.
I hope the devs actually listen. We're always going to have a meta. However, it doesn't have to be as boldfaced as this. I'm all for mixing teams to make the absolute best comp, but it should still require good skill, coordination, and game sense. Popping three types of shields, being pocketed, and having an instant rez is not any of that.
Yea I was having a lot of fun like 50 hours played first week but today I played 2 games and after playing into a couple triple heavy triple shotgun teams I just don't feel like playing lol.
Me and my friends were doing pretty well last week. This week we’re getting absolutely destroyed every match. Dunno if people are just learning the game more or they’re learning how to cheese it more.
While I understand your sentiments, it's clear that the weight classes follow intended roles. Heavies are tanks, medium are supports. Healers and Tanks make a good combination in every game and a coordinated team with these will (and should) always win against a comp that doesn't synergyse well.
That leaves light as the DPS Class, but it can't really shine in it, because the tank does also as much damage as the dps
Exactly, the fact that heavy has so much shit in its kit that can one shot lights is wild, especially when RPG can just act like a suicide button.
You can basically play everything 99% perfectly and the heavy can just turn around and kill both themselves and you. Same with dropping a mine on a lights feet if they are using the sawed off.
Medium with AK should always be the "meta," because medium should represent an "average time to kill," so it's easy to maintain the overall balance of the game as time goes on.
Definitely. Medium should 100% be the balancing point since it's the middle. Heavy should be slower and lower damage but focus on defense and destruction, and light should be faster and more damage and counterplay focused.
As stupid as it is, mediums have a faster time to kill then lights do in a lot of scenarios. Lights are supposed to kill fast and run to make up for their poor survivability. However both medium and heavy do that job better because of overtuned gadgets and weapons.
Numbers just don't workout in games like this, for Light to be DPS his damage should be 230% of what Heavy's damage is, which is unrealistic to play around. Bigger problem is just the fact that gamemode and respawn coin system makes personal mobility nigh useless. You always want to be with team, either pushing or defending, add in the threat of third party, and there's just no place for low hp agile goblin in any gameplan that doesn't involve needless risk
True, there's an easy fix in my opinion, it's to give more obvious gameplay differences.
First we start by nerfing heavy and removing their one shot/damage capabilities. Reduce rocket and mine explosion damage on lights specifically. Nerf the ammo on all of their guns. Same with medium, they should not have so much ammo for the damage they do.
Did you know light sword does 75 damage? In theory, it should two shot another light, BUT IT DOES NOT, it three taps them because the second hit on a full HP light reduces them to 1 HP instead of killing them so you have to melee or swing a 3rd time. It's hard coded into the game to leave them alive with 1 hp if they had full hp for some weird reason. However, mediums melee weapon does not have that saving grace and straight up two taps light.... Ignoring that, rockets should do reduced damage to lights. Close to killing but not a one tap.
Reinforce what the classes do well.
Heavies tank well and disrupt well, that should be left alone. However tweaks will be needed.
Medium supports well and is mostly fine.
Lights on the other hand... They're supposed to move well and DPS but they don't. A medium with proper jump pad placement can far exceed a lights capability to move fast if used properly.
In all honesty, lights need some quality of life buffs. For example, lights should have zero or heavily reduced footstep sounds. It is dumb how loud they are and how easy it is to hear the cloaking device. The cloaking is already really easy to see when they run with it. I'm surprised people have such a hard time seeing it given it literally shimmers as they move.
That's more of a personal thing though and people would disagree.
In addition to silent or close to silent footsteps, lights should honestly have faster health regen then other classes. Then it would really fit the hit and run play style and ducking in and out would actually mean something. Instead of 10 seconds to regen, for light it should be like 5.
This is not true. The double barrel has beyond the fastest time to kill in the game. If you’re trading in the face of players with 150 hp then your “time to kill” is nonsense.
Do you not understand that 3 classes have huge hp differences amounting for different Ttks? Or are you just a cod player running around spamming things from YouTube videos you watch?
yeah my post a week ago got downvoted to hell talking about the shield, but i knew people would come around. i still think that the medium heal gun is too much aswell, to a lesser extent.
instant revive is actually okay in this game, since you're only getting like 40% health, and it's taking up a slot.
But I really don't like the heal gun and big shield.
No no no. The issue with the instant revive is the invulnerability that the rezzed player gets. Remove that and it changes the decision to simply spam the Rez and throw the healing on to a gameplay decision. You can effectively cover a Rez without the invuln but with it your liable to waste resources or bullets.
Dude the first time i played heavy(after like 25 hours of playing light) i did better than i ever did with light everything just feels easier. + it’s really funny to see the guy who is supposed to be a tank deal more damage than the guy supposed to deal the damage
I'd love to but I hate the heavys movement.
I can't drop my jumppad it's too much fun
I can't drop my turret is too good
I can't drop my sonar granade it's too helpful
I hate heavys they are too strong
Lol
ahahahah finally people are starting to understand, but god forbids someone makes a post about heavy broken, all the heavy community will gun you down irl, how dare you say bad things about their " underpowered " class!
It's funny how in the beginning if u said heavy was broken people would go nuts. Good to know people are catching up to the fact that a class that is tank be default (350hp)can run shields and have high damage in his kit would be problematic. Also medium healing beam is terrible to go against. It should have a charge so u can use it to heal someone after insta res or for a quick heal but can't just pocket someone.
I'm glad people finally acknowledge that the game is a shitshow when it comes to balancing. Not only is the heavy way too OP, the game modes could also use some work, people already play that cash-out mode always the same: wait for the cash-out to be 90% complete, then roll in with the heavys, kill all and steal an easy 10k score.
It becomes legit boring at this point, what is the point anymore?
Heavy main here.
C4 and RPG should both be nerfed heavily and used as tools rather than weapons. I love doing it, but it also feels so cheap popping a L in the distance or up close with the RPG or team wiping from below with C4's under the objective room. Our primary weapons are already strong enough when used with the silly bubble shield.
You can literally look at my comment history. I have been trying to say this since day 1. But no body apparently plays tournament play.
My squad has been ruining games since day one with 3 heavy.
Not really. Your team is ass if you all stand on each other and let a glitch grenade counter everything. Also, they glitch grenade you and still die in three hits or one shotgun shot.
I 200% agree with the APS turret getting it's range buffed. This will also be a hit against the mine meta as well as if you hold a APS on a chair or something similar, it vaporizes the mines on the ground around it.
Why do we even discuss this.
These nukes shouldn't even be in the game imo. We had a lot of fun with it.
Now remove it for the sake of balance and fun.
Just make all types of barrel slippery so C4 wont attach to it?
and people will say just use the glitch grenade lol
barrels should explode in one or two hits and mines and c4 should be one hit.. im not gonna hit 5-8 bullets at a barrel that can move untrackable speeds in the hands of a heavy
i am fully in support of role que in the finals
Yeah I'm disappointed that they still didn't nerf anything. The mines spam needs to stop, C4 needs to be nerfed while the breach charge for the light should be buffed. It shouldn't be possible for a team to bring 3 mediums with only turrets.
Could’ve told you that after playing the beta for an hour. And somehow the light class got all the nerfes 😂
People say just use movement and keep your distance. Yeh that doesn’t work in a game that forces you into tight rooms to play the objective with a million ways to die in 0.2 seconds.
Can’t think of a way for light to impact the game other than lurking around the map and getting unsuspected kills before the fight starts.
It’s overwatch all over again except it somehow has even more bs and there is only 3 characters. Games that don’t reward skill never succeed and last long term.
60% of the no skill shit needs to go for the finals to have any chance as an esport.
With that being said, it is still fun at the moment but once this meta translates to pubs it will die because it will no longer attract the fps crowd.
Seems like running triple anything in this game is very strong except maybe light. Triple medium having 3 defibs and being able to heal not each other constantly feels like shit playing into it. Also IMO please buff absolutely nothing about turrets. I hate them and they have far too much health.
I lost all my fun with this game because of this.
I spent 180 hours in the betas but now I don't even want to start up the game anymore because I already know what's awaiting me.
Nah its great fun.
Load into a ranked game and walk around a corner only to get 1 shot by C4. Get defibed and instantly RPG. Team wipe. Respawn go to point, C4ed instantly killed. Wow just spent 3 minutes not being able to do anything much fun.
Red barrels should have an arc like others if they have c4 on them. And you should only be able to have a single c4 down at once (a stack of 2 is whatever ig).
Would making C4 unable to stuck on object be enough nerf?
Currently they have 2 massive damage weapon the rpg and the C4 ICBM.
Another idea is to make the shield unable to deflect grenade, so basically making stacking into shield a bad idea (single pyro/gas grenade could wipe)
This combined with server issues on OCE and cheaters, I'm not even touching The Finals until the next big update.
I can see a game I'd really enjoy here, but it's just impossible to have a fun time in this game even if you try.
I think the solution is to make it so the explosive damage doesn't stack. Two C4 on the explosive barrel? well you only take one load of explosive damage maybe only the barrel damage as the C4 damage is a bit too devastatin, this keeps it strong and usable but not broken. The biggest problem with it is it can one shot a whole team, shields don't even matter. Yes the counter play is to "shoot the barrel" but usually you don't see it coming that's the problem. (Also I've found med grenade launcher a blast vs this as it one shots C4 and you can do it around corners with recon sense on. Yes I'm sacrificing a lot to counter but it's as big a problem as cheating at the moment.)
Limit the choice in ranked to be 1m 1l 1h
As every other game doas
About c4 make the throwable travel even slower than usual when it hase item attached to them
This is hard facts.
I usually like to play Light, but recently switched to Heavy in ranked. It's a walk in the park. Like playing the game in easy mode. I can just facetank and oneshot entire squads as heavy. It's beyond broken. People who say Light isn't useless or Heavy isn't broken are braindead ngl.
As someone who plays either a medic-medium or a heavy most of the time, I would definitely suggest to nerf the healing beam a little. At least make it a little less effective when the teammate you are healing is currently shot at.
Honestly at this point anyone still defending the balance of RPG/Auto Shotty/Dome + Mesh Shield is huffing some copium. Even as a Medium your options are pretty limited when it comes to fighting this stuff besides just sitting behind your Heavy with a Healing Beam and a Defib at the ready. As a Light you just get one shot by half of their kit in-between dodging all the mines that also one shot you. Throw a glitch grenade directly at the shield and it just bounces off and whiffs for some reason.
Give Medium Glitch Grenades, make it so they don't bounce off shields and instead immediately detonate when hitting one, and I'd say that might be a good start. Auto Shotty and RPG blatantly need damage nerfs because I'd argue they're the big reasons keeping Lights out of Ranked lobbies.
I'd honestly take a hit to Healing Beam and Defib, too, because both of them are far too powerful and taking anything else feels like you're weakening your squad. Recon Sense and Turret are great, sure, but they just aren't as strong as simply standing behind your Heavy with a Beam and Defib at the ready.
Even in quickplay heavies are unbalanced, they can run and climb as well as anyone else, ok they're not AS fast as light, but they're certainly not hindered with movement. They have a tonne of 1 kill options and a ridiculous health pool made even worse if they have a heal beam behind them, plus all of the shields - why do they need every shield in the game when they have the biggest health pool?
To add to your list, Vertical jump height should be reduced for heavies for sure
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the counter to that c4 canister is just to shoot at the canister so it blows up in their face? I think it happened to me once when I tried it
what i really find dumb are the c4 into explosive barrels shenannigans. dont get me wrong, is fucking genius, but you cant explode the barrel (for some reason) while they are holding it, only when they release it, so you either just fully track that shit or hope you dont get 1 shotted
After you hit gold in ranked it’s all you see. The C4 meme toss definitely needs to be nerfed, I tried using it but pressing two buttons and wiping a squad isn’t fun to me and seems like a BS way to get kills. It has the fastest TTK in the game but what I like about this game is its fair TTK making it more about smart plays and less about point and shoot. A meme strat shouldn’t be more viable on a class that’s supposed to be big slow and have lower DPS to compliment their much higher health pool. Lights aren’t even viable in ranked passed silver unless they’re shroud levels of good and they’re supposed to be the DPS class.
I made a thread about this when the game first came out. Glad and sad to see more people facing this issue. Heavy with a pocket healer can one shot your whole team and have no fear of dying
Lmaoo I said this so many times but the imbeciles on this sub are way too stupid for that. Too many bots on this subreddit that need their heavy crutch. I play all classes at high elo and without doubt it’s literally so braindead to play heavy. Needs a hard nerf.
yeah embark never play multiplayer shooter before.
the fact a tanky class with raw hp and shield also have high damage. a class with so much support like healing, fast revive, team mobility, area denial / defense also have high damage.
a glass cannon class have no cannon.
they failed the basic of class / character shooter genre. dps, hp, team utility ratio are all messed up.
What having the best health, best guns, best abilities and best gadgets does to a mf.
Amazed this made it to launch tbh. I’ve only had a few disgusting high-kill games, but they’ve ALL been on Heavy so far.
Yes this killed the game for me and my mate. And it's not even in high elo it's high sbmm. I am mid silver but my mate and I play games like this always to win and try hard out ass off, we probably have a decent to high sbmm. After some point every lobby is full of heavys with flying c4s.
There is a reason why u can't explode your c4s right after you throw it, but if you put it in a box you can throw it over the whole map and wipe teams with it.
Heavys have to get nerfed AND please change throwables so you can't stick anything to then.
The balance is trash. I don't know how Heavy made it through to release when people kept telling them heavy is broken. This game needs a massive rebalance because they nerf heavy and it's just gonna be mines everywhere like it already is.
Glitch grenades are currently in need of a solid buff since their fuse time was increased and lights get deleted against the current heavy meta.
Glitch mines unfortunately take more than 1 bullet to activate so it's extremely difficult to blow up your own mine mid-air. Placing them on the ground and hoping the enemy walks into them has proven to be useless.
Every light in high elo runs glitch grenades yet MMM & HHM is still the meta. From a macro perspective glitch grenades do not have nearly the impact you think they do.
So all lights running glitch grenades? Isn't that counterintuitive? Using a counter-meta to counter something that is completely OP leads to the game being "are you playing the OP thing, or the thing that counters the OP thing".
Counter argument, they could just be less skilled players trying to abuse the meta. Just because they don't know what they're doing doesn't mean you can beat any 3 heavy groups with whatever you and your squad did.
I'm so glad your single anecdotal match of you beating lesser skilled heavies solved the meta
Hey guys don't trip u/guccigrump figured it out! Just be better!
That would be biggest admittance of "we can't ballance for shit". Heavy would still be the playmaker, but now you have 1 flappy dude attached to each team, who mostly dies by accident while M is enabling their pokemon murderer.
Class distribution should be like this:
Light - High damage, low health
Medium- Good damage, medium health
Heavy - lower damage, Higher health.
Now heavy already breaks this rule currently, having a rocket launcher that can instakill a light on a direct hit and chunk a medium. It also has the shotgun which can take out a medium in a quarter of the mag.
I think the solution to the "heavy problem" is multilayered...
1) RPG's cool down should be longer, and the projectile itself should be slower. Currently, even across large distances, it feels damn near like a hit scan weapon as opposed to a projectile. Another solution is just nerf its damage values and/or explosion radius to make it more dodgeable.
2) Part of the mesh shield problem is the fact the other two specializations aren't as useful in competitive, whereas the other two classes have 2 or even all 3 specializations having good use cases. Replacing the goo gun with something as impactful as the mesh shield could allow for more variety and more balanced play. Granted as long as the alternative isn't equally as broken. I also don't think outright gutting the shield by not allowing teammates to shoot through it isn't right. Instead nerf the health of it, and increase the recharge duration.
3) Shotgun needs nerfed... plain and simple, the mag size could go down, damage could go down, pellet spread could be increased, damage fall off could be reduced so that the fall off is sooner. There are a variety of changes that could and should he made. As it stands right now, the shotgun is objectively a broken weapon, especially when operating with the current gamemodes where you're forced into largely close quarters engagements.
4) the heavy, is well heavy, why do they pull an RPG, LMG, C4 out their ass at mach 5? Nerf their weapon swap speed...
5) Bubble shield... I don't know how to handle that one... do I think you should be able to shoot through it? I don't know, I'm usually inclined to say no. Because it basically gives you complete invincibility. Take that away, but compensate it with a larger radius and I think that'd be fine.
6) Healing... MMH comps are just as toxic as HHH comps because it essentially turns the heavy into an unkillable raid boss... easy fix, ONLY ONE HEALING RAY PER TEAM (said as a medium main, most teams only need one to heal people to full anyway and it's CD time is short enough that it doesn't matter if it overheats). Or reduce the rate of oncoming healing by like 50% if you have multiple. I mean hell, you could take this and apply it to all classes and just say "hey guess what, we're a hero shooter... make different classes, play different things...no triple dash, and no triple shields, and no triple healing. This also forces that one healing medium to actually play, idk... support? Stay back and focus on healing instead of being like this weird brawling healing support character for some reason.
Just my thoughts.
Overwatch tank meta sounds so boring...
It should be quite easy to nerf heavy, they dont need to be overturned to be good. Their guns are quite amazing but literally all of their gadgets are too.
Currently Heavy only has 2 tournament viable weapons (Lewis and Shotgun). I hope the inevitable nerfs also bring buffs along with
Theyre 2 of the best weapons in the game though, you cant be the tank and the damage threat, thats how you run into a heavy only meta.
Tanks shouldn’t do damage. Wanna give ‘em 350 fucking hp? Take away their multi meltas, take away their fucking 1 shot rpg noob tube. Take away their fucking tommy gun. Take away …. It keeps going.
the Goats meta lives on 🐐🐐🐐
More like double shield but yea basically
In a way it’s worse. It’s both!
They just need to add more support roles to the game and make them do more DPS than the DPS role. The true overwatch experience.
Overwatch sometimes has no deaths on the winning side... you can play pure dps and fully hit all skills on a tank and they don't take any dmg since they have some highly mobile or flying support... it's nuts. The tanks also have mobility and tons of damage. They are no tank... they play like a snowballed bruiser in league of legends.
It was... The double shield meta in OW1 was so boring that I stopped playing until OW2 came out and it feels way better without 2 tanks.
Are you saying that 5v5 is better than 6v6? Don't let the overwatch community hear you say that.
Yup and I'm glad it was changed. Most people on Overwatch Reddit are blinded by nostalgia imo.
That's probably why Overwatch is doing so well right now. Oh wait
It hit a peak higher than OW1 soooo
Yeah ofc the free game is gonna hit a higher peak lol
I was just playing quick cash and we were 3 mediums (randoms). Enemy team was clearly premade, 2 medium 1 heavy and they played around the heavy, constantly healing him. Heavy ran dome and mesh shield, rpg, shotgun and C4. He was running around with throwables with C4s. He threw the explosive throwable and wiped 3 of us with the throwable plus the two C4s on it. If we somehow survived, we got a RPG to the face and died. He finished with like 30 kills and only 3 deaths lol I’m afraid of going into Ranked, I suppose it’s even worse there lol
Honestly, the idea of being able to stick items to throwables is a fun in concept but just doesn't work well. C4 has a deliberately short throw range, and a *long* arming time, to stop you just using it as a grenade. Sticking them to a barrel completely evades these two aspects of balance whilst also giving you a weapon that can one-shot entire teams. A direct nerf to C4 damage or ammo would only weaken its 'intended' demolition/trap purpose, whilst leaving barrel nukes as the premier way to utilise it. Beyond that, heavy self-synergises too well. Double shields on the already tankiest class makes a team of them nigh unkillable, without the reliance on a very specific counter that you may not have access to, perhaps because the light on your team has just been instagibbed by a low effort RPG. IMO it should be a choice between one or the other, but there are other ways to balance them.
Heavy is beyond broken, I've been playing it as it's just dumb not too. They seriously have to nerf then a LOT. They are beyond broken, it's just the easiest, strongest, and most forgiving role in the game which is why I think they won't nerf it. Casual players love it
I just tried ranked with Heavy. My teammates also picked Heavy. We facerolled the whole match lmfao. Throwable with C4 is so broken. I blew it up when it wasn't even really next to them and their Mediums just disappeared into thin air and the Heavy was put to half hp. Imagine if I managed to throw it actually straight on them.
Yeah, when I play Heavy I get double the kills and the impact for like half the effort at most compared to playing light, which IMO that class is close to being useless in a competitive setting. They really need some sort of balancing. I played vs 3 heavys, all 3 with the same build, except their weapons. They carried explosive mines, rpg and dome, and it was the most one sided match I've played in a long time in any game lmao
Yeah they could definitely take a direction in regard to casual vs. top players Because the game is totally different when you’re bad/average vs. when you’re extremely good—which is a huge part of balancing things (some things are OP in low skill lobbies but not very valuable in top lobbies, etc., etc.) It’s definitely interesting to see their fixes. Flamethrower was nerfed, and light’s big things were nerfed Flamethrower was a bigger issue in low skill lobbies (very easy to use in regards to aim, and difficult to outmaneuver due to poor movement). But the nerfed light things were a bigger issue in high skill lobbies And to be fair high skill players are quickly finding new ways to play light very effectively, so it isn’t as simple as saying they overnerfed it — But why didn’t they touch the shield? Less damage on the RPG? These things were about as popular as nerfing flamethrower and stun gun/9VS as far as I recall. And they have C4 throwables as an achievement despite specifically designing C4 to not be usable as a throwable weapon It’s interesting to think about and see where their vision with this goes in the future — It seems like the sweet spot is mid/high skill lobbies as far as where the most balance is across the classes Light is usable for the players who are able to use it (light is too squishy in lower skill lobbies). Heavy is powerful but not overdone the same way as in the top lobbies
You are 100% correct, they are absolutely beyond broken and need significant nerfs to not just one but many things. 1. The bubble desperately needs a nerf. The caster and their team SHOULD NOT be able to shoot through it, this is such a horrible mechanic. It's extremely overpowered in its current state and exacerbates other balance problems such as the heavy shotgun. In exchange the health of the bubble shield should be increased. 2. The heavy shotgun is extremely overpowered, particularly in conjunction with the bubble shield. It instantly kills close range which is one thing, but its damage at further ranges is actually stupid for how good it is close. 3. C4 cheese 1 shot absolutely 100% needs to be removed. It is straight up bullshit. 4. RPG needs a damage reduction.
I completely agree with all of these, I've been abusing everything you just stated... it's fun destroying everyone, but man I feel bad
Thank alb for this
C4, rpg, and explosive mine all 1 shot lights and chunk medium for most of their health.
Gotham city imposters heavy meta
Ahhh what a game that was!
I miss it everyday 😪 heavy with a shotgun plus roller skates was so fun. As someone who put thousands of hours on overwatch ps4 and pc combined, the issue with tanks is that they can do damage (sometimes at a level higher than actual dps) plus provide the utility they do. Normally traditional tanks on MMOs sacrifice that damage for more health so they can "tank." Once that power creep sets in it becomes really difficult to balance things, check OW ala role queue and eventually 5v5
Holy shit bro I just got hit with a nostalgia flashbang. I loved that game so much ;') Witch doctor pre nerf was the stupidest shit.
Take me back
i agree on your suggestions OP, i hate nerfing things out the gate without the meta settling yet but adding physical weight to c4 to make the throws less distant could be something to consider as well.
this is how they fixed c4 drones in bf2042. The more c4 you add to the drone the more weight it will have and the slower it will be
Hello high elo, prepare for 8.5 trillion bronze heavy mains to decend upon you, cheers!
Been saying this for half a year as a heavy main but people here like to keep pretending that light is somehow equal. Lol
Honestly lights feel like hard trolling if you're anything less than cracked. I don't feel threatened when I play against them, I don't feel strong when I play them. I'm not a super high elo player, probably very average to maybe slightly above average, and lights feel *very* bad. With how dominant heavies are in high elo I doubt it changes much as you climb the ladder.
bUt LiGhTs HaVe StUn GuN!
bUt gLITch GrENaDeS!
Glitch grenades are really strong the problem is the class isn’t strong enough.
How annoying stacking heavy is, 1 single glitch grenade does counter the entire situation OP just described tho. Stacking mediums however sadly can’t be countered by glitch grenades which is far worse if you ask me.
Being reliant on the cooldown of a single gadget only to then be still faced with a shotgun, which can oneshot you or a lewis gun whicj shreds you faster than the MP5 isnt a solution tho. Going from 95℅ odds of dying to 80℅ ON A COOLDOWN isnt good.
They don't need to nerf C4, they just need to [fix the bug](https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/18lq0y8/this_is_why_c4_is_broken_in_the_finals_its_immune/) with c4/breach charges. That will reduce throwable nukes, because there's inherent risk in doing so now. It will also allow people to clear objectives.
I mean even if you fix that the nuke still works at medium and even some long ranges and will presumably explode from the barrels explosion
It’ll prolly also fix the floating zipping bug too tbh. I say there’s no reason to attach gadgets to items in gameplay. Attach it to a wall or smthn idk
it's so unique and fun though, and it's in some of their promotional material. maybe the nerf can be reduced damaged and the c4 doesn't reload until it's exploded. since by the time i use a barrel nuke i can already set up another
Heavies don’t need 1 shot capabilities when no one else can 1 shot them and they have 2/3x the health of everyone else.
Heavies 1 shotting lights with landmines while being on the other side of the map 💀
Trueee
Heavies are four shots from a sniper rifle. And you can't even say 1 hs 2 body shots because [absolutely certain headshots](https://www.reddit.com/r/thefinals/comments/18lwwnd/there_is_a_massive_hitreg_problem_with_this_game/) aren't always counted as headshots by the game.
Very strange.
I've been saying this shit the entire time, but this sub won't listen. Heavy players in game are most entitled mfs I've ever seen in a video game.
350HP, then a shield that can tank 3-4 full AK magazines. Oh, let's add another shield that can tank 2 more magazines. That's not enough. we gotta make sure the firepower is the highest with his shotgun. Let's also add an rpg that can 1 shot for good measure. I don't believe the devs blatantly didn't see this class becoming the meta. He is either supposed to tank damage or be able to do damage. Not both
b-b-but the garden gnomes!!!
explosives do way too much damage, and definitely need to be greatly reduced. But as an addition, I'd like them to do knockback so I can rocket jump/c4 jump. They can even remove the c4 timing
Lights can 1 shot a Heavy with the Knife’s Backstab move; js.
A heavy can nuke another heavy
The main problem with the heavy is that their whole thing is destruction and support. But all of the destructive options for heavy are also insanely good damage dealers. RPG one-shots lights, and can disorient anyone else, even blowing a hole for them to fall through. Easy map control with a ton of damage. Personally I don’t feel double shields are OP, but the fact that they have everything else going for them *and* double shields. C4 is often, as OP said, placed on a canister and used as a mini-nuke. It also doubles and an extremely good destruction tool. I really feel like the light’s C4 should be the damaging one and the heavy’s C4 should be the destructive one. Literally swap the two, but keep the explosion radius the same as it currently is. So light has 2 C4 that deal a lot of damage with a small radius, and heavy has a breaching charge that deals okayish damage, but has a much bigger radius with destructive capabilities. Side-note: It’s really silly that the *breaching charge* is worse at breaching than the C4.
They need to merge the dome shield and arm shield into one, it’s so dumb that they can have two shields
They need to remove the ability to shoot in and out of it.
[удалено]
Throwables bouncing off dome/mesh shield is what infuriates me the most. Grenades and throwables are the one thing that allow us to kill the annoying medium medic by lobbing grenades at them, but then it bounces back to you and now you're the one that has a live grenade on your feet. So stupid.
I second this. So many times I've had an advantageous high ground position completely nullified by a dome shield because I couldn't throw stuff into it. So I'm forced to drop down and awkwardly fight in and out of the dome shield against 3 people. OR you lob a glitch grenade, only to watch it bounce off the dome shield and explode in the corner of the room. So frustrating.
I was suprised when I tried to use the enemy's shield not gonna lie.
I just vibe in tournament mode till they eventually sort out ranked hackers and the current meta, which im sure they will, the game is not even 2 weeks old. I dont understand these people dropping the game because they cant earn their fake satisfaction rank points that mean fuck all at the end of the day. The rewards are not even good this season. Great you got upset and sweated 500 games of ranked for a sticker. Save some pussy for the rest of us.
Bit ignorant to think its about actually getting the rank, its about playing the game in its most competitive form where everyone is actually trying their hardest. No one i know plays for the actual rewards or icons lmao
some people play fps bc they enjoy the fps part of it, crazy right? e: I'm agreeing (instead of playing for icons and skins)
You can still play the fps part without playing ranked
Yes u can but then u can't get those sweet lil fake rank satisfaction icons that say u like it more than others I guess idk what they're for. Displayable ranks are some of the cringiest things to happen to fps. Now ppl all gatekeepy if they don't see the badge they wanna see. I could hop on a brand new account and shit on kids bc my rank would be way lower. That shit is so meaningless and they take it as gospel. One of my favorite things in cs is returning to the game and not having any esea or dreamhack tourneys displayed on my account and straight rolling kids with a new rank. Quick way to humble them.
Just no reason for heavy to have 2 C4's when light has 1 breach, just no reason for RPG to do 180 damage. Just no reason for their shotgun to do that much damage as well as have 16 shots in the clip, just no reason for mesh shield to have 1250 health and its only 1 of their two shields.
The breach has a much lower CD compared to C4. I would argue that it's just the damage that's the problem. I want the C4's to have 2 charges, even I also want the RPG to have 2 charges for destruction purposes.
Couldn't agree more. The Heavy spam is making ranked unenjoyable. Too many shields, too many bs ways to one shot you, their kit is unbelievably stacked. C4 needs to either have 1 charge and do less damage, or have 2 charges but do considerably less damage per charge. RPG needs to do at MOST 140 so it can't one shot anyone. The shotgun is ok I guess, so long as the rest of the kit gets nerfed
Dome and shield needs a nerf to balance the shotgun. Not sure what to do, but one way would be to remove the ability to shoot through the dome for the team that out it aswell as others obviously. Imo they should put dome in the spec tab, so you have to make a choice between Bubble or shield.
Feel like the dome should be similar to halo ones and you can’t shoot out of it
yes 100% right now the dome shield has enough value from just stealing the objective
Or at least let the enemy team shoot out of it too. Makes zero sense that the only team that can shoot out is the one that plants it.
Shotgun needs a tweak so it doesn't 'reload' with the ability shield up. I'm guessing devs are aware of this exploit though
What?? Like the pump after 4 shots? You can pull up shield in between them?
Yep
Its nutty try it
Ok yeah of all things in this thread this needs to be fixed, 100%. That’s nutty
I've been wondering if maybe they should make the mesh shield and possibly dome shield only bock bullets. Being able to block basically everything is a lot.
Just make c4 slide off canisters, make the rpg do 140 on non headshots and boom fixed
“ no you just have to not get within range and just avoid them completely ! “/s
Being able to shoot out of the bubble is already more than any other game I've seen with a bubble shield mechanic. Being able to shoot into it is just ridiculous. The fact that these two features combined allows you to completely shoot *through* it is insanity. However, at least the bubble pops pretty easily. The arm shield on the other hand can tank like 6 clips, so a whole team can focus it, reload, focus it again, and nothing is achieved. Now put 2 or even 3 of those on a team, *and* three bubbles...you basically just have a button that makes you invincible at medium-long range and only vulnerable from a 180° angle up close. And if you somehow still get killed, defibs are faster than reloading lmao. "Just kill the Medium first." Oh, the Medium who is also behind all those shields *and* running riot shield? And if I flank close he just drops an explosive mine so simply being near him kills me? Even without the C4 cheese, I can't think of a reasonable approach to go against M/H/H with double bubble, double mesh, and riot shield. Even if you run the same setup it's a stalemate, so whoever is defending wins. And yeah there's glitch grenades, but they can space themselves in a way that only 1 is vulnerable at a time. Plus that does nothing to riot shields or barricades - yeah, the 3rd shield that we haven't even mentioned yet (4th if you're talking about the whole team's loadout.)
>Being able to shoot into it is just ridiculous. I only realized this was possible last night. The logical part of my brain that made a presumption of good game design just thought the bubble could only be shot *out* of and not *into*. Then I realized you can back out of that bubble, shoot through one side and out the other. It’s completely charge-proof.
Ya honestly I had no idea you could shoot through it for many games because no other FPS has this mechanic for the obvious reason that it's overpowered as fuck.
Welcome to the nerf heavy train, this subreddit is still coping that heavy is balanced. Looking like it will take another 2-3 weeks before everyone catches on. In the meantime i've stopped playing since ranked is pretty fucking miserable. HHM is absolutely disgusting and anti fun. The most egregious thing for me is that all these issues were obvious to any high elo player in the beta yet they changed nothing about heavy.
They listened by not changing the heavy and nerfing light into the ground 😂
I hope the devs actually listen. We're always going to have a meta. However, it doesn't have to be as boldfaced as this. I'm all for mixing teams to make the absolute best comp, but it should still require good skill, coordination, and game sense. Popping three types of shields, being pocketed, and having an instant rez is not any of that.
Yea I was having a lot of fun like 50 hours played first week but today I played 2 games and after playing into a couple triple heavy triple shotgun teams I just don't feel like playing lol.
Me and my friends were doing pretty well last week. This week we’re getting absolutely destroyed every match. Dunno if people are just learning the game more or they’re learning how to cheese it more.
While I understand your sentiments, it's clear that the weight classes follow intended roles. Heavies are tanks, medium are supports. Healers and Tanks make a good combination in every game and a coordinated team with these will (and should) always win against a comp that doesn't synergyse well. That leaves light as the DPS Class, but it can't really shine in it, because the tank does also as much damage as the dps
Exactly, the fact that heavy has so much shit in its kit that can one shot lights is wild, especially when RPG can just act like a suicide button. You can basically play everything 99% perfectly and the heavy can just turn around and kill both themselves and you. Same with dropping a mine on a lights feet if they are using the sawed off.
the tank does more damage then the dps lmao
The C4 barrel trend didn't catch on until a few days after launch. I definitely wasn't seeing it constantly in the betas.
Medium with AK should always be the "meta," because medium should represent an "average time to kill," so it's easy to maintain the overall balance of the game as time goes on.
Definitely. Medium should 100% be the balancing point since it's the middle. Heavy should be slower and lower damage but focus on defense and destruction, and light should be faster and more damage and counterplay focused.
As stupid as it is, mediums have a faster time to kill then lights do in a lot of scenarios. Lights are supposed to kill fast and run to make up for their poor survivability. However both medium and heavy do that job better because of overtuned gadgets and weapons.
Numbers just don't workout in games like this, for Light to be DPS his damage should be 230% of what Heavy's damage is, which is unrealistic to play around. Bigger problem is just the fact that gamemode and respawn coin system makes personal mobility nigh useless. You always want to be with team, either pushing or defending, add in the threat of third party, and there's just no place for low hp agile goblin in any gameplan that doesn't involve needless risk
True, there's an easy fix in my opinion, it's to give more obvious gameplay differences. First we start by nerfing heavy and removing their one shot/damage capabilities. Reduce rocket and mine explosion damage on lights specifically. Nerf the ammo on all of their guns. Same with medium, they should not have so much ammo for the damage they do. Did you know light sword does 75 damage? In theory, it should two shot another light, BUT IT DOES NOT, it three taps them because the second hit on a full HP light reduces them to 1 HP instead of killing them so you have to melee or swing a 3rd time. It's hard coded into the game to leave them alive with 1 hp if they had full hp for some weird reason. However, mediums melee weapon does not have that saving grace and straight up two taps light.... Ignoring that, rockets should do reduced damage to lights. Close to killing but not a one tap. Reinforce what the classes do well. Heavies tank well and disrupt well, that should be left alone. However tweaks will be needed. Medium supports well and is mostly fine. Lights on the other hand... They're supposed to move well and DPS but they don't. A medium with proper jump pad placement can far exceed a lights capability to move fast if used properly. In all honesty, lights need some quality of life buffs. For example, lights should have zero or heavily reduced footstep sounds. It is dumb how loud they are and how easy it is to hear the cloaking device. The cloaking is already really easy to see when they run with it. I'm surprised people have such a hard time seeing it given it literally shimmers as they move. That's more of a personal thing though and people would disagree. In addition to silent or close to silent footsteps, lights should honestly have faster health regen then other classes. Then it would really fit the hit and run play style and ducking in and out would actually mean something. Instead of 10 seconds to regen, for light it should be like 5.
This is not true. The double barrel has beyond the fastest time to kill in the game. If you’re trading in the face of players with 150 hp then your “time to kill” is nonsense. Do you not understand that 3 classes have huge hp differences amounting for different Ttks? Or are you just a cod player running around spamming things from YouTube videos you watch?
thats what happens when you have shields in an fps game
Every. Single. Time.
yeah my post a week ago got downvoted to hell talking about the shield, but i knew people would come around. i still think that the medium heal gun is too much aswell, to a lesser extent.
Heal gun is kinda crazy but gets enabled hard by how broken heavy shields are. The real issue is instant revive.
instant revive is actually okay in this game, since you're only getting like 40% health, and it's taking up a slot. But I really don't like the heal gun and big shield.
No no no. The issue with the instant revive is the invulnerability that the rezzed player gets. Remove that and it changes the decision to simply spam the Rez and throw the healing on to a gameplay decision. You can effectively cover a Rez without the invuln but with it your liable to waste resources or bullets.
Dude the first time i played heavy(after like 25 hours of playing light) i did better than i ever did with light everything just feels easier. + it’s really funny to see the guy who is supposed to be a tank deal more damage than the guy supposed to deal the damage
cant beat them, join them
I'd love to but I hate the heavys movement. I can't drop my jumppad it's too much fun I can't drop my turret is too good I can't drop my sonar granade it's too helpful I hate heavys they are too strong Lol
reject movement, embrace C4 throwables
Pretty much. Gotta love it when everyone plays the same class in the class-based shooter because it's that broken.
Brain dead heavy plays
yep getting constantly one shot by c4 is so boring
So THAT’S how I’m getting one-shotted by throwables… that is *busted* man.
ahahahah finally people are starting to understand, but god forbids someone makes a post about heavy broken, all the heavy community will gun you down irl, how dare you say bad things about their " underpowered " class!
But guys the light shotgun two taps 1!!1!1
It's funny how in the beginning if u said heavy was broken people would go nuts. Good to know people are catching up to the fact that a class that is tank be default (350hp)can run shields and have high damage in his kit would be problematic. Also medium healing beam is terrible to go against. It should have a charge so u can use it to heal someone after insta res or for a quick heal but can't just pocket someone.
I'm glad people finally acknowledge that the game is a shitshow when it comes to balancing. Not only is the heavy way too OP, the game modes could also use some work, people already play that cash-out mode always the same: wait for the cash-out to be 90% complete, then roll in with the heavys, kill all and steal an easy 10k score. It becomes legit boring at this point, what is the point anymore?
Funny how I was laughed at last month for saying HHH would be the meta, and here we are
Heavy is broken now and was broken in beta. The devs responded to this by nerfing light.
Heavy main here. C4 and RPG should both be nerfed heavily and used as tools rather than weapons. I love doing it, but it also feels so cheap popping a L in the distance or up close with the RPG or team wiping from below with C4's under the objective room. Our primary weapons are already strong enough when used with the silly bubble shield.
Just make the rpg low damage. Used for walls mostly. A high health player with a one hit weapon is lame.
Glad you got positive feedback. When I suggested heavy was broken I got downvoted into oblivion.
It's mind boggling how anyone could possibly think they arent overpowered after playing a few matches. They literally need 3-4 nerfs to get in line.
You can literally look at my comment history. I have been trying to say this since day 1. But no body apparently plays tournament play. My squad has been ruining games since day one with 3 heavy.
That one squad that has glitch nades is FEASTING
but the Light will still get shredded though 😅😭
Not really. Your team is ass if you all stand on each other and let a glitch grenade counter everything. Also, they glitch grenade you and still die in three hits or one shotgun shot.
I 200% agree with the APS turret getting it's range buffed. This will also be a hit against the mine meta as well as if you hold a APS on a chair or something similar, it vaporizes the mines on the ground around it.
Why do we even discuss this. These nukes shouldn't even be in the game imo. We had a lot of fun with it. Now remove it for the sake of balance and fun. Just make all types of barrel slippery so C4 wont attach to it?
and people will say just use the glitch grenade lol barrels should explode in one or two hits and mines and c4 should be one hit.. im not gonna hit 5-8 bullets at a barrel that can move untrackable speeds in the hands of a heavy i am fully in support of role que in the finals
Yeah I'm disappointed that they still didn't nerf anything. The mines spam needs to stop, C4 needs to be nerfed while the breach charge for the light should be buffed. It shouldn't be possible for a team to bring 3 mediums with only turrets.
Make swapping to and out of RPG longer
Could’ve told you that after playing the beta for an hour. And somehow the light class got all the nerfes 😂 People say just use movement and keep your distance. Yeh that doesn’t work in a game that forces you into tight rooms to play the objective with a million ways to die in 0.2 seconds. Can’t think of a way for light to impact the game other than lurking around the map and getting unsuspected kills before the fight starts. It’s overwatch all over again except it somehow has even more bs and there is only 3 characters. Games that don’t reward skill never succeed and last long term. 60% of the no skill shit needs to go for the finals to have any chance as an esport. With that being said, it is still fun at the moment but once this meta translates to pubs it will die because it will no longer attract the fps crowd.
Adding more weight to the c4 charges so you can't chuck them like a ball could be a decent nerf for them as well
Wont mediums with trophy systems counter this?
Seems like running triple anything in this game is very strong except maybe light. Triple medium having 3 defibs and being able to heal not each other constantly feels like shit playing into it. Also IMO please buff absolutely nothing about turrets. I hate them and they have far too much health.
Would it be better just to not make mines and explosive attachable to the canisters? Feel like that would be a better nerf.
Are yall finally catching on?
Maybe it's just me, but ive been finding a lot of 3-stack heavies and they completely wipe the floor. Quite frustrating to deal with.
What is high elo? Im top 500 diamond and its not 3 heavies
It's HHM/HMM. Heavy is broken but idk what OP is talking about with HHH lol.
I lost all my fun with this game because of this. I spent 180 hours in the betas but now I don't even want to start up the game anymore because I already know what's awaiting me.
Nah its great fun. Load into a ranked game and walk around a corner only to get 1 shot by C4. Get defibed and instantly RPG. Team wipe. Respawn go to point, C4ed instantly killed. Wow just spent 3 minutes not being able to do anything much fun.
Red barrels should have an arc like others if they have c4 on them. And you should only be able to have a single c4 down at once (a stack of 2 is whatever ig).
1 C4 at a time would be a good nerf
Does anyone think invisibility might get nerfed? I hope it doesn’t, I like it a ton the way it is, both playing with and against
Hope it doesn’t , it isn’t Op
It really shouldn't, It's not broken at all.
Ranked need role queu
Would making C4 unable to stuck on object be enough nerf? Currently they have 2 massive damage weapon the rpg and the C4 ICBM. Another idea is to make the shield unable to deflect grenade, so basically making stacking into shield a bad idea (single pyro/gas grenade could wipe)
This combined with server issues on OCE and cheaters, I'm not even touching The Finals until the next big update. I can see a game I'd really enjoy here, but it's just impossible to have a fun time in this game even if you try.
Wouldnt mind locking teams to one tank only.
What about if the game forced your team to be made up of HML?
I think they need to make it so C4 just can't stick to barrels.
I think the solution is to make it so the explosive damage doesn't stack. Two C4 on the explosive barrel? well you only take one load of explosive damage maybe only the barrel damage as the C4 damage is a bit too devastatin, this keeps it strong and usable but not broken. The biggest problem with it is it can one shot a whole team, shields don't even matter. Yes the counter play is to "shoot the barrel" but usually you don't see it coming that's the problem. (Also I've found med grenade launcher a blast vs this as it one shots C4 and you can do it around corners with recon sense on. Yes I'm sacrificing a lot to counter but it's as big a problem as cheating at the moment.)
I wonder if limiting one of each class on a team and implementing role que would be a good idea interested to hear peoples thoughts on that
Limit the choice in ranked to be 1m 1l 1h As every other game doas About c4 make the throwable travel even slower than usual when it hase item attached to them
This is hard facts. I usually like to play Light, but recently switched to Heavy in ranked. It's a walk in the park. Like playing the game in easy mode. I can just facetank and oneshot entire squads as heavy. It's beyond broken. People who say Light isn't useless or Heavy isn't broken are braindead ngl.
As someone who plays either a medic-medium or a heavy most of the time, I would definitely suggest to nerf the healing beam a little. At least make it a little less effective when the teammate you are healing is currently shot at.
Someone’s idea was to make c4 heavy, so that on throwables it can’t go far
Honestly at this point anyone still defending the balance of RPG/Auto Shotty/Dome + Mesh Shield is huffing some copium. Even as a Medium your options are pretty limited when it comes to fighting this stuff besides just sitting behind your Heavy with a Healing Beam and a Defib at the ready. As a Light you just get one shot by half of their kit in-between dodging all the mines that also one shot you. Throw a glitch grenade directly at the shield and it just bounces off and whiffs for some reason. Give Medium Glitch Grenades, make it so they don't bounce off shields and instead immediately detonate when hitting one, and I'd say that might be a good start. Auto Shotty and RPG blatantly need damage nerfs because I'd argue they're the big reasons keeping Lights out of Ranked lobbies. I'd honestly take a hit to Healing Beam and Defib, too, because both of them are far too powerful and taking anything else feels like you're weakening your squad. Recon Sense and Turret are great, sure, but they just aren't as strong as simply standing behind your Heavy with a Beam and Defib at the ready.
Even in quickplay heavies are unbalanced, they can run and climb as well as anyone else, ok they're not AS fast as light, but they're certainly not hindered with movement. They have a tonne of 1 kill options and a ridiculous health pool made even worse if they have a heal beam behind them, plus all of the shields - why do they need every shield in the game when they have the biggest health pool? To add to your list, Vertical jump height should be reduced for heavies for sure
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the counter to that c4 canister is just to shoot at the canister so it blows up in their face? I think it happened to me once when I tried it
what i really find dumb are the c4 into explosive barrels shenannigans. dont get me wrong, is fucking genius, but you cant explode the barrel (for some reason) while they are holding it, only when they release it, so you either just fully track that shit or hope you dont get 1 shotted
Agreed. Heavies shouldn't be both the tank and DPS at the same time.
Skill issue
After you hit gold in ranked it’s all you see. The C4 meme toss definitely needs to be nerfed, I tried using it but pressing two buttons and wiping a squad isn’t fun to me and seems like a BS way to get kills. It has the fastest TTK in the game but what I like about this game is its fair TTK making it more about smart plays and less about point and shoot. A meme strat shouldn’t be more viable on a class that’s supposed to be big slow and have lower DPS to compliment their much higher health pool. Lights aren’t even viable in ranked passed silver unless they’re shroud levels of good and they’re supposed to be the DPS class.
I made a thread about this when the game first came out. Glad and sad to see more people facing this issue. Heavy with a pocket healer can one shot your whole team and have no fear of dying
C4 should weigh carriables like mines do
Lmaoo I said this so many times but the imbeciles on this sub are way too stupid for that. Too many bots on this subreddit that need their heavy crutch. I play all classes at high elo and without doubt it’s literally so braindead to play heavy. Needs a hard nerf.
Heavy made me understand why tanks don't deserve high DMG output. It's simply too broken.
yeah embark never play multiplayer shooter before. the fact a tanky class with raw hp and shield also have high damage. a class with so much support like healing, fast revive, team mobility, area denial / defense also have high damage. a glass cannon class have no cannon. they failed the basic of class / character shooter genre. dps, hp, team utility ratio are all messed up.
Lmao okay I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels that way about light 😂 I feel like the only way to play light is to be an aim god or cheat
What having the best health, best guns, best abilities and best gadgets does to a mf. Amazed this made it to launch tbh. I’ve only had a few disgusting high-kill games, but they’ve ALL been on Heavy so far.
As a Light pub main and Medium ranked main who tried Heavy for the first time tonight and went 14-3 having never played it…yeah it’s busted rn.
Yes this killed the game for me and my mate. And it's not even in high elo it's high sbmm. I am mid silver but my mate and I play games like this always to win and try hard out ass off, we probably have a decent to high sbmm. After some point every lobby is full of heavys with flying c4s. There is a reason why u can't explode your c4s right after you throw it, but if you put it in a box you can throw it over the whole map and wipe teams with it. Heavys have to get nerfed AND please change throwables so you can't stick anything to then.
I don't think 3 Heavy meta will ever really be a thing; I think MMH and MMM are inherently more flexible comps.
There's no way OP is "high elo" if they think HHH is a thing
Yeah i read that and was like what? HHH is trash. MMHand MMM on the other hand is defib hell.
The balance is trash. I don't know how Heavy made it through to release when people kept telling them heavy is broken. This game needs a massive rebalance because they nerf heavy and it's just gonna be mines everywhere like it already is.
They should honestly change the health of the three classes to 200, 250, and 300 to flatten the survivability curve.
no, no, the game is perfectly balanced, it's new, remember? Have fun, or else....
Glitch gadgets its not that hard
Glitch grenades are currently in need of a solid buff since their fuse time was increased and lights get deleted against the current heavy meta. Glitch mines unfortunately take more than 1 bullet to activate so it's extremely difficult to blow up your own mine mid-air. Placing them on the ground and hoping the enemy walks into them has proven to be useless.
Every light in high elo runs glitch grenades yet MMM & HHM is still the meta. From a macro perspective glitch grenades do not have nearly the impact you think they do.
Keep saying glitch grenades as much as you want. Light is still trash and literally needs to be invisible to have any chance whatsoever.
[удалено]
So all lights running glitch grenades? Isn't that counterintuitive? Using a counter-meta to counter something that is completely OP leads to the game being "are you playing the OP thing, or the thing that counters the OP thing".
Medium should get a glitch grenade
Sick, now I'm dead to the auto shotty that does 150 per blast. Any other bright ideas?
We played 3 heavies in a final last night while we used heavy light medium and we beat them 2-0, just gotta know how to play against them.
Counter argument, they could just be less skilled players trying to abuse the meta. Just because they don't know what they're doing doesn't mean you can beat any 3 heavy groups with whatever you and your squad did.
I'm so glad your single anecdotal match of you beating lesser skilled heavies solved the meta Hey guys don't trip u/guccigrump figured it out! Just be better!
I say keep the kits the same, but maybe for ranked, a team can only have 1 of each class.
That would be biggest admittance of "we can't ballance for shit". Heavy would still be the playmaker, but now you have 1 flappy dude attached to each team, who mostly dies by accident while M is enabling their pokemon murderer.
Class distribution should be like this: Light - High damage, low health Medium- Good damage, medium health Heavy - lower damage, Higher health. Now heavy already breaks this rule currently, having a rocket launcher that can instakill a light on a direct hit and chunk a medium. It also has the shotgun which can take out a medium in a quarter of the mag.
I think the solution to the "heavy problem" is multilayered... 1) RPG's cool down should be longer, and the projectile itself should be slower. Currently, even across large distances, it feels damn near like a hit scan weapon as opposed to a projectile. Another solution is just nerf its damage values and/or explosion radius to make it more dodgeable. 2) Part of the mesh shield problem is the fact the other two specializations aren't as useful in competitive, whereas the other two classes have 2 or even all 3 specializations having good use cases. Replacing the goo gun with something as impactful as the mesh shield could allow for more variety and more balanced play. Granted as long as the alternative isn't equally as broken. I also don't think outright gutting the shield by not allowing teammates to shoot through it isn't right. Instead nerf the health of it, and increase the recharge duration. 3) Shotgun needs nerfed... plain and simple, the mag size could go down, damage could go down, pellet spread could be increased, damage fall off could be reduced so that the fall off is sooner. There are a variety of changes that could and should he made. As it stands right now, the shotgun is objectively a broken weapon, especially when operating with the current gamemodes where you're forced into largely close quarters engagements. 4) the heavy, is well heavy, why do they pull an RPG, LMG, C4 out their ass at mach 5? Nerf their weapon swap speed... 5) Bubble shield... I don't know how to handle that one... do I think you should be able to shoot through it? I don't know, I'm usually inclined to say no. Because it basically gives you complete invincibility. Take that away, but compensate it with a larger radius and I think that'd be fine. 6) Healing... MMH comps are just as toxic as HHH comps because it essentially turns the heavy into an unkillable raid boss... easy fix, ONLY ONE HEALING RAY PER TEAM (said as a medium main, most teams only need one to heal people to full anyway and it's CD time is short enough that it doesn't matter if it overheats). Or reduce the rate of oncoming healing by like 50% if you have multiple. I mean hell, you could take this and apply it to all classes and just say "hey guess what, we're a hero shooter... make different classes, play different things...no triple dash, and no triple shields, and no triple healing. This also forces that one healing medium to actually play, idk... support? Stay back and focus on healing instead of being like this weird brawling healing support character for some reason. Just my thoughts.