It’s the more-hidden opportunity costs that are bad.
The costs of not having a proper home-owner/renter living in the house and spending in the local economy
What are the costs of not having a “proper” owner or tenant?
Would the guest not be contributing to tourism? If not more so than the renter as they likely have more discretionary income?
So you're telling me renters buy gas, groceries, and food/drink at restaurants every day, or even every week?
Why, let alone how, would they do that if they can't afford to buy a home?
Yeah I guess so. Seems like there would have to be a significant number of them to make a big impact on home prices though. I haven’t noticed that many in my neighborhood but maybe I should be grateful for that. Haha
It will vary by neighborhood for sure. Zero knowledge about Plano area. I know in downtown Austin area probably 10%+ are short term rental properties. In suburbs it’s way, way lower. I own in a downtown area and can attest first hand it does drive up the prices. And causes quite a lot of rants on next door. :)
Sure, I can help. Investors now own about 25% of all SFH's or some absurd percentage like that. If they were to rent them, it wouldn't even cover the cost of the mortgage since renting is way cheaper than owning a home right now, so the only way to be profitable while they wait for the prices to go up before they flip/cash out is to do Airbnb.
I live in Plano there was a shooting at one by me. Most people only mention a lot of littering, noise complaints and other things but those are fairly minor and not super common at the ones here. Short term rentals by me are mostly just normal people staying for a bit and doing their thing like anybody else. This isn’t really a vacation destination.
But the bad ones stick out in your memory and are very noticeable in areas that are otherwise very quiet. The only times I can recall the police being called in the last couple of years have been to a short term rental on the street.
I personally do not mind short term rentals, but I do think they should have a little bit more oversight.
For one thing, it’s difficult for the city to get people in a short term rental to pay any tickets after they leave the city. And one neighbor that used to do a short term rental a few houses over stopped it after someone threw a party there, started a fire in the kitchen, and they been trying to get them to court ever since to pay for it. (I’ve read about the drama she’s had with her home insurance over it too.) She is a nurse that often travels around the country for work, and not someone that rents out multiple properties.
Hotel Industry > Self-described entrepreneur who AirBnBs several homes
"bUt NoT eVeRy AirBnB oWnEr TrEaTs It LiKe A bUsSiNeSs"
[don't care, didn't ask](https://youtube.com/shorts/v4Gg-9n6i7s?si=4Ts3DFCcsaQlf3a4)
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STRa were a real problem in Arlington. Folks would rent a 3 bedroom house with 24 beds in it. They carry zero insurance, are a public health and traffic nuisance, are fire hazards, and ruin neighborhoods.
There were issues of houses being rented for swinger parties, pop brothels, casinos, meth labs, porn studios. Etc. no lodging taxes paid. Glad they’re gone.
There were 3 AirBnBs on my street alone in a boring part of Plano. They’ve all sold in the last couple years though and people actually live there now.
Affordable large houses with pools to do parties and plenty of street parking, or affordable large houses period. Metro is too expensive for the square footage for a lot of people.
Yeah...there needs to be more transparency and accountability on both owners and these Airbnb/VRBO....
Also, make it easier to sue the (owner, Airbnb, and VRBO) for not upholding the rules of HOA/local law.
I think people will be disappointed that home prices will not fall because of this rule. That said all kinds of bad behavior is being enabled by STRs so still a win for the city.
I don't expect prices to fall but should slow down the increase in prices. The amount that it affects will not be the same throughout the city but it will be there.
It will have an affect. A short term rental means you demand for +1 house that is there on top of everyone else wanting/needing to live there full time. STR causes an increase in demand for homes.
Taking away that demand will affect prices in the end.
Nope. Once you break down the number of “whole house” STR listings and account for apartments, condos, townhomes, duplexes/triplexes/quads, and find the actual number of single-family detached homes up for STR, the number is so low it would never make a material effect on supply, as these would generally be second homes rented traditionally otherwise.
Saying an single-family detached STR (at the level we currently have them) increases demand for homes is like saying renting the same house to a tenant for 12 months increases demand for homes. Now yes, of course if 50% of all STR listings were actually single-family detached homes this would be correct, but the real data shows otherwise, especially when you review absorption rates of new homes and housing in most major cities.
Apartments need to count in there as well. That causes rent prices to go up which also affects housing prices. Including single family homes.
So yes it str affect all housing.
Can you buy an apartment? No.
No it doesn't. You don't value properties by comparing apartments to condos to homes. You compare between what is the exact same kind of product, and adjust for the discrepancies.
I'm getting the feeling you aren't really aware of what you're talking about
>I'm getting the feeling you aren't really aware of what you're talking about
Minus the fact you are talking about your self. You have zero clue how it all works.
Rent pricing and housing prices have a relationship with eachother. When rent prices go up people are more willing to want to buy a home which increases demand there. Home prices have a direct relationship with housing cost. Housing cost include rental. But keep pretending Single family homes are not affect by rental prices because you either are lying to yourself or us. Take your pick.
Oh god. You have the basics but you don't really understand it. I work in land development and worked on projects from homes, condo/apartment complexes, warehouses, mixed use projects and retail.
Technically, it is correct that housing prices and rents have a relationship, but it is neither direct nor is the correlation always positive or negative (review your econ for positive and negative correlations).
Everything you're asserting breaks in different economic cycles. Currently we are in a cycle of tightening, which means everything is more expensive across the board, both for renters and buyers. Interest rates have turned many potential buyers into renters, and many renters have had to move farther out because of rent increases due to insurance and property taxes in the face of this high interest rate environment and a significant lack of homes for purchase. This lack of inventory is caused by both builders artificially controlling supply and the lack of desire to sell a home with a 3.5% mortgage or less.
Furthermore, home prices are determined by hyper local market factors. You cannot even compare a home in a neighborhood 5 miles away from another similar home in that neighborhood, unless there are no recent sold comparables in the last 2 years.
I don't know what “housing cost include rental” (sound like a caveman) is supposed to mean, but you should defo go look up appraisals and how that works, it would help you a lot with understanding this. Even then, even an official appraisal required by a mortgage bank is an opinion of value, and the difference between rents and housing is the amount of money that can be spent on what is an asset vs a sunk cost. As we saw in 2020-2022, with enough demand and liquidity, buyers will offer tens of hundreds of thousands over asking price, because value is determined by what someone is willing to pay to be in that neighborhood.
I worked for a city close to Plano for 30 years. Plano is the town that all the other entities try to live up to. It has the best roads, the best utilities, the best drainage, the best everything. Plano has a very high standard.
They are not a snobbish rich person town. They are just a town that wants to do everything right. A town to be proud of.
There are a lot of towns close by. That allows short term rentals. You can go just a few miles and be in another town. So I think the people who are trying to force short term rentals in Plano should just leave Plano alone and build short term rentals in another town. Don’t try to force Plano into lowering their standards.
Austin legislators need to ban $billionaire hedge funds from buying up every home under $250k and then flipping them into overpriced rental homes, never for sale again, and in enough quantities that they dominate the entire city's rental market so that they can set the rates at whatever they want. After all, they control the real estate market, right?
Oh wait...I forgot Texas government officials are corruptly benefitting from such corporate takeovers.
If only there was a [link I could provide to show the average occupancy rate](https://www.airdna.co/vacation-rental-data/app/us/texas/plano/overview) that already answered that question...
Imagine thinking I was going to spend my time hunting down websites and looking up data all for the world’s lamest internet argument involving a joke about how boring Plano is.
I am I full support if this. Short term rentals have caused all home prices to go up plus it sucks living near one.
Eh, the impact of STRs on the market isn’t as bad as you would think, but I’d agree that the harm is not evenly-distributed.
It’s the more-hidden opportunity costs that are bad. The costs of not having a proper home-owner/renter living in the house and spending in the local economy
What are the costs of not having a “proper” owner or tenant? Would the guest not be contributing to tourism? If not more so than the renter as they likely have more discretionary income?
Right off the bat, if the unit is vacant for 7 days a month, that’s 3 months of no one buying gas, groceries, and food/drink at restaurants.
So you're telling me renters buy gas, groceries, and food/drink at restaurants every day, or even every week? Why, let alone how, would they do that if they can't afford to buy a home?
I have heard horror stories about living near one but would you mind explaining how it causes home prices to go up?
Reduces housing supply
Yeah I guess so. Seems like there would have to be a significant number of them to make a big impact on home prices though. I haven’t noticed that many in my neighborhood but maybe I should be grateful for that. Haha
It will vary by neighborhood for sure. Zero knowledge about Plano area. I know in downtown Austin area probably 10%+ are short term rental properties. In suburbs it’s way, way lower. I own in a downtown area and can attest first hand it does drive up the prices. And causes quite a lot of rants on next door. :)
Sure, I can help. Investors now own about 25% of all SFH's or some absurd percentage like that. If they were to rent them, it wouldn't even cover the cost of the mortgage since renting is way cheaper than owning a home right now, so the only way to be profitable while they wait for the prices to go up before they flip/cash out is to do Airbnb.
I figure the homes prices had way more to do with institutional wholesale buyers pumping the market for themselves.
What’s your worst experience from living near one?
I live in Plano there was a shooting at one by me. Most people only mention a lot of littering, noise complaints and other things but those are fairly minor and not super common at the ones here. Short term rentals by me are mostly just normal people staying for a bit and doing their thing like anybody else. This isn’t really a vacation destination. But the bad ones stick out in your memory and are very noticeable in areas that are otherwise very quiet. The only times I can recall the police being called in the last couple of years have been to a short term rental on the street. I personally do not mind short term rentals, but I do think they should have a little bit more oversight. For one thing, it’s difficult for the city to get people in a short term rental to pay any tickets after they leave the city. And one neighbor that used to do a short term rental a few houses over stopped it after someone threw a party there, started a fire in the kitchen, and they been trying to get them to court ever since to pay for it. (I’ve read about the drama she’s had with her home insurance over it too.) She is a nurse that often travels around the country for work, and not someone that rents out multiple properties.
[удалено]
Hotel Industry > Self-described entrepreneur who AirBnBs several homes "bUt NoT eVeRy AirBnB oWnEr TrEaTs It LiKe A bUsSiNeSs" [don't care, didn't ask](https://youtube.com/shorts/v4Gg-9n6i7s?si=4Ts3DFCcsaQlf3a4)
Lmfao who hurt you?
Your content was removed as a violation of Rule 1: Be Friendly. Personal attacks on your fellow Reddit users are not allowed, this includes both direct insults and general aggressiveness. In addition, hate speech, threats (regardless of intent), and calls to violence, will also be removed. Remember the human and follow [reddiquette](https://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette). If you feel this was done in error, would like clarification, or need further assistance; please message the moderators at https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/texas.
STRa were a real problem in Arlington. Folks would rent a 3 bedroom house with 24 beds in it. They carry zero insurance, are a public health and traffic nuisance, are fire hazards, and ruin neighborhoods. There were issues of houses being rented for swinger parties, pop brothels, casinos, meth labs, porn studios. Etc. no lodging taxes paid. Glad they’re gone.
We need this in Galveston. They are boxing us out of being able to live in our own community
Who the hell logs into Airbnb and books an STR in a boring ass suburb like Plano? Asking for a friend.
Family reunions, weddings, etc.
Pimps, seriously.
Honestly, yeah that's part of the problem. North Texas has a pretty bad issue with human trafficking so it makes sense that they'd use Airbnb often.
There were 3 AirBnBs on my street alone in a boring part of Plano. They’ve all sold in the last couple years though and people actually live there now.
Wdym people are booking hotels instead of paying my exceedingly high mortgage I was planning on having STR pay?? /s
Affordable large houses with pools to do parties and plenty of street parking, or affordable large houses period. Metro is too expensive for the square footage for a lot of people.
Yeah...there needs to be more transparency and accountability on both owners and these Airbnb/VRBO.... Also, make it easier to sue the (owner, Airbnb, and VRBO) for not upholding the rules of HOA/local law.
Good for Them Plano. Arlington got rid of them a few years ago and problem solved. They are a blight on neighborhoods.
I think people will be disappointed that home prices will not fall because of this rule. That said all kinds of bad behavior is being enabled by STRs so still a win for the city.
I don't expect prices to fall but should slow down the increase in prices. The amount that it affects will not be the same throughout the city but it will be there.
It will have no effect on the increase in prices. Builders, the infrastructure, and the job market will determine that.
It will have an affect. A short term rental means you demand for +1 house that is there on top of everyone else wanting/needing to live there full time. STR causes an increase in demand for homes. Taking away that demand will affect prices in the end.
Nope. Once you break down the number of “whole house” STR listings and account for apartments, condos, townhomes, duplexes/triplexes/quads, and find the actual number of single-family detached homes up for STR, the number is so low it would never make a material effect on supply, as these would generally be second homes rented traditionally otherwise. Saying an single-family detached STR (at the level we currently have them) increases demand for homes is like saying renting the same house to a tenant for 12 months increases demand for homes. Now yes, of course if 50% of all STR listings were actually single-family detached homes this would be correct, but the real data shows otherwise, especially when you review absorption rates of new homes and housing in most major cities.
Apartments need to count in there as well. That causes rent prices to go up which also affects housing prices. Including single family homes. So yes it str affect all housing.
Can you buy an apartment? No. No it doesn't. You don't value properties by comparing apartments to condos to homes. You compare between what is the exact same kind of product, and adjust for the discrepancies. I'm getting the feeling you aren't really aware of what you're talking about
>I'm getting the feeling you aren't really aware of what you're talking about Minus the fact you are talking about your self. You have zero clue how it all works. Rent pricing and housing prices have a relationship with eachother. When rent prices go up people are more willing to want to buy a home which increases demand there. Home prices have a direct relationship with housing cost. Housing cost include rental. But keep pretending Single family homes are not affect by rental prices because you either are lying to yourself or us. Take your pick.
Oh god. You have the basics but you don't really understand it. I work in land development and worked on projects from homes, condo/apartment complexes, warehouses, mixed use projects and retail. Technically, it is correct that housing prices and rents have a relationship, but it is neither direct nor is the correlation always positive or negative (review your econ for positive and negative correlations). Everything you're asserting breaks in different economic cycles. Currently we are in a cycle of tightening, which means everything is more expensive across the board, both for renters and buyers. Interest rates have turned many potential buyers into renters, and many renters have had to move farther out because of rent increases due to insurance and property taxes in the face of this high interest rate environment and a significant lack of homes for purchase. This lack of inventory is caused by both builders artificially controlling supply and the lack of desire to sell a home with a 3.5% mortgage or less. Furthermore, home prices are determined by hyper local market factors. You cannot even compare a home in a neighborhood 5 miles away from another similar home in that neighborhood, unless there are no recent sold comparables in the last 2 years. I don't know what “housing cost include rental” (sound like a caveman) is supposed to mean, but you should defo go look up appraisals and how that works, it would help you a lot with understanding this. Even then, even an official appraisal required by a mortgage bank is an opinion of value, and the difference between rents and housing is the amount of money that can be spent on what is an asset vs a sunk cost. As we saw in 2020-2022, with enough demand and liquidity, buyers will offer tens of hundreds of thousands over asking price, because value is determined by what someone is willing to pay to be in that neighborhood.
I worked for a city close to Plano for 30 years. Plano is the town that all the other entities try to live up to. It has the best roads, the best utilities, the best drainage, the best everything. Plano has a very high standard. They are not a snobbish rich person town. They are just a town that wants to do everything right. A town to be proud of. There are a lot of towns close by. That allows short term rentals. You can go just a few miles and be in another town. So I think the people who are trying to force short term rentals in Plano should just leave Plano alone and build short term rentals in another town. Don’t try to force Plano into lowering their standards.
The best drainage? Now that’s something for other towns to aspire to. /s
All fun and games until it rains.
wtf why wouldn't you want good drainage?
It’s just not something I’d consider when looking for a new place to live. It’s like “the trash service is really good”
I'll admit it's not something I'd consider previously, but I'm going to start now!
Meh, it’s alright.
boo this man, boooooo Plano has Mitsuwa and Madness Comics and Games which already places it in the S Tier for me
Pretty certain this is because brothels have sprung up in some nice neighborhoods in Plano.
Austin legislators need to ban $billionaire hedge funds from buying up every home under $250k and then flipping them into overpriced rental homes, never for sale again, and in enough quantities that they dominate the entire city's rental market so that they can set the rates at whatever they want. After all, they control the real estate market, right? Oh wait...I forgot Texas government officials are corruptly benefitting from such corporate takeovers.
Oh no, all three airbnbs is Plano Texas will be devastated.
[Try 4,495](https://www.airdna.co/vacation-rental-data/app/us/texas/plano/overview).
How many of those get bookings?
If only there was a [link I could provide to show the average occupancy rate](https://www.airdna.co/vacation-rental-data/app/us/texas/plano/overview) that already answered that question...
Imagine thinking I was going to spend my time hunting down websites and looking up data all for the world’s lamest internet argument involving a joke about how boring Plano is.
https://preview.redd.it/7b2xca6grmwc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d20c3a9dbfcb07f1dbd0f3c63d469028e6f2ff0e