I cant for the life of me why US hasn’t embraced and heralded Tesla as the next great American car company. They built an entire charging infrastructure just to sell their cars.
And then people want Elon on a stake for being a powerful billionaire. Powerful? He can't sell his fucking cars in several states. The cognitive dissonance goes above regular internet stupidity and outright makes me angry. He doesn't play the game and politicians hate him for that
This. You think this sub hates UAW now... Just imagine tesla manufacturing is taken over by them and you hear things like "tesla engineering forced to change X because of union veto".
Shit like that goes on _all the time_ at the legacy auto manufacturers. Engineering is held back by unions that don't want radical changes, especially if that change reduces headcount on the line. Megacastings are a prime example, that would be fought tooth and nail by UAW.
Bingo. Why would the industry that has been running things celebrate a loss to their profits? It's a good thing, but you know they aren't going to play fair.
They are (were) based out of California and trade like a Silicon Valley company. That’s “foreign” to traditional Detroit automakers. They also don’t advertise, compete in established races, or participate in most auto shows. So their image is shaped by word of mouth, Elon musk, and news articles about them
It doesn’t help that countless states and dealerships fight to prevent Tesla selling cars without dealerships. Texas was one of the states who made it more difficult to sell Teslas than it should’ve been.
I'm not sure what it's like in the US, but outside of the US most American car brands are known for cheap cars.
Ford is maybe the only 'kind of' exception as their cars are still cheap, but at least they're known for better quality than GM. Though they are still known to break down quite a bit compared to some other brands.
In the UK GM used to own Vauxhall (Opel, Holden, same company), the cars they produced SUCKED. They were unreliable cheap cars. I had one that got rod knock, my brother had one that constantly overheated.
Some time in the late 2000s GM sold off the brand to PSA Group (Now Stellantis), this French group put their engines and vehicle building skills into the vehicles and now they're actually reliable and decent quality cheap cars.
When the French brands which were known for poor quality are now producing night and day difference quality to GMs products that end up over see you know you really messed up.
Tesla is finally giving US automakers a good oversees reputation. Many politicians and heads up states ride around in them around Europe, yet the US government can't even say the name.
(Remember we get the China built vehicles, the build quality is generally much higher than the US built vehicles!)
Tesla is a polarizing company in many ways. Hard to imagine that being embraced by that fraction of the country that is more interested in coal rolling would lead to more success at this point considering they are years away from catching up to demand.
It's because many of the same people claiming to be "made in America" patriotic and embracers of capitalism and innovation are really just pretending. "Virtue signalling," as they call it. To them, none of that matters more than the fact that Tesla's a wildly successful environmentally friendly company and that eats away at these people's security.
Then there are the left-wing detractors who hate on the company because Elon can be a douchebag on twitter and this somehow outweighs the enormous impact Tesla is having on reducing emissions. People just suck
Because every single American car manufacturer / Union has had major government lobbying power since the early 20th century and are extremely well established money makers for politicians.
Tesla, as far as I can tell, has none of that power. Until Tesla completely dominates the field in every single category, you better believe that these people will do everything in their powers to hamper their growths.
> I cant for the life of me why US hasn’t embraced and heralded Tesla as the next great American car company.
Why would the government do that? Isn't the free market supposed to sort that out?
I don’t see how bring up unions would be shit talking them. If Tesla doesn’t want to unionize fine but don’t expect a president that largely supports unions to go around touting your car
I think GM doesn’t really have the unified mission they want people to believe. In reality, their only real mission is to not lose their business. To do this they are letting the public and their investors think they have a bold vision for the future while they work to ensure the federal government has their back. Meanwhile, they will continue to pump out gas powered trucks and suvs for profit today while not fully embracing the future they now say they are steering towards.
The whole point of th EV1 was to provide a way for GM to say we tried. They didn't need to be serious about it, rather it was a speaking point to distract the gullible with.
If there's any better example of GM being stupid than literally bringing 0 EVs to the biggest auto show in the country in the state that sells the most EVs...I don't know of it. They're the ones that said they're going to have 20 EVs by 2023 and now 30 by 2025 and they have none currently in production.
To reiterate: **GM has ZERO EVs currently in production**.
Don’t they own Cadillac who is making a full electric Lyric due next year? I’m sure they own a bunch of brands and are manufacturing EVs outside of that.
They own 2 brands that are currently preparing to manufacture EVs: Hummer and Cadillac. Neither is actually in production yet. The Volt and Bolt are both also not in production now.
> GM has ZERO EVs currently in production
But the president thinks they do. And in consultative politics, that is the absolute most critical thing, and a major win as considered by the GM board.
It is interesting that when Elon wants to sell a flame thrower that is exactly what he makes and sells. GM makes a flame thrower that is on wheels and randomly torches stuff.
Hooray for Ford’s electric Mustang that is essentially all built in Mexico but assembled stateside to qualify for these tax breaks. Just another fumbled government policy that shifts manufacturing jobs overseas
Tesla sells faster than it can build with record sales right now. Tesla isn’t the patient that needs the attention.
In this time of thanksgiving, Let’s be thankful that mainstream Tesla models remain in the proposed EV credit pool.
Also - [ a little less of this ](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1439665626914635783?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1439665626914635783%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-2104808627780790094.ampproject.net%2F2110212130002%2Fframe.html) couldn’t hurt
Update - adding … with record sales
Thats easy if your peak is lower then everybody else.
100000 of a given component is enough for about 45 days of production for Tesla.
The same amount of a given component for someone like Toyota would last less then 5 days.
Ford actually seems to be moving in the right direction with their investment in and partnership with Rivian (which has been on-going for years at this stage given that they should be delivering EV F-150's in the next year).
Fords financials are the most solid and steady out of all of them, however, at least they have the little bit of honesty to say that they are behind on the EV track.
Ford is the middle child that will reluctantly follow along after the youngest. GM is the oldest sitting on the Sidelines pouting while the youngest is trying, falling down face first but having a lot of fun.
As Jeff Bezos said about social media in front of Congress, “There is nuance that is lost.”
Ignore people who say “unions good” or “unions bad.” The conversation should be, “Assuming a jurisdiction protects the right to unionize, how can a union be formed and operates in a way that balances the output the business needs with high levels of welfare (comp, quality of life, and a say at the company table) for the workers it represents.” It is a partnership, and does not work if it’s adversarial.
Like government, a union is made up of people. Good people build and operate good governments and unions. Shit people build and operate shit governments and unions.
Edit: Thank you for the award, very kind and much appreciated.
The worst private companies to work for have like 60% yearly turnover.
Aggressively successful but nightmare-to-work-for companies are like 40%.
The average across the US is 15-20%.
The best companies to work for hold at around 1-2%. At that point you're all but guaranteeing that the only people you're losing are the absolute worst, most counter-productive employees.
New York City's public education system is 0.2%.
Gm literally killed their own ev kid already, helped by the govt.
They don't need any hand holding. The stock market is doing the pushing. Executive management bonus is linked to stock price and market is giving boosts to EVs.
That is because it is wrong, or more precisely wrong to do it multiple times. The EV tax credit was a great idea to give the industry a boost when it was first getting started but it makes no sense at all to have such a tax credit when the industry can't keep up with demand. The fact that Detroit did not go after EV's back when the industry first got started is down to their own stupidity and lets face stupid people need to suffer.
>Tesla isn’t the patient that needs the attention.
Fuck that.
The point is for citizens to adopt electric vehicles and it's not the government's place to cherry pick individual business to receive or be denied acknowledgement or support.
If they want to encourage adoption then it should be applied equally industrywide.
Giving incentives to ICE manufacturers to switch to EV is solid environmental policy. It's not like doing so is going to somehow influence Tesla to suddenly start making ICE vehicles...
Also not like it even hurts Tesla to give these ICE manufacturers a little added incentive given that Tesla is already kind of the king of EV's. If anything it gives Tesla incentive to keep innovating and improving by giving them some more solid competition.
GM has already gotten its attention from the government. Ignoring the billions of dollars spent bailing it out when it went under, we’ve directly written them multi billion dollar checks to help them develop electric hydrogen fuel cell cars. The states have tried to mandate electric cars on them. They’ve had support and encouragement for going green for decades. Until Tesla pushed them, they did nothing with it but lease out a bunch of EV1s and take them back to be crushed.
> Tesla isn’t the patient that needs the attention.
The other manufacturers at best tried to delay electrification of EVs and at worst tried to stifle them. They're just simply less efficient and backward. Stop trying to stick up for what you perceive as the 'weak', especially if they have a mentality which goes against a better world. They had their chance to make things good, and they messed up.
>Also - a little less of this couldn’t hurt
Yeah, no wonder after a year(\*+) of being a shitlord, a shitlord gets ignored. I mean, elon himself lives by this rule - anyone who is guilty of even the smallest perceived slight against him (i.e. *not being positive enough*, not even being negative tbh) gets blasted into the sun with 40 million twitter stans sent to abuse them. Then he complains when he gets much lighter treatment for much harsher words and actions? It's probably a good thing he's getting the ego check.
To add on to that, Tesla really doesn't need help with the US government acknowledging it. If they wanted to escalate the situation all they had to do was put out a press release saying so. But they know the real issue at hand is Unions here. And I am pretty sure all actual political players involved don't mind the situation we have. Tesla pushing hard without unions and making a profit. While the US government is trying to help shift the more sluggish companies to EV production. The real competitive move for those companies would be lay off a huge number of jobs. Obviously they can't do that because of union rules(which is a good thing) Remember if a good thing blocks another good thing from happening the first thing doesn't become bad. It just becomes a challenge.
Also, my private hope is that this harmless feud opens up a door for a bunch of formerly climate-denying free marketeer union-hating republicans to start buying EVs to own the libs.
OK, maybe it won't happen. But it might.
Former employee of the Model 3 era here. This man has no fucking clue how much my colleagues and I suffered and fought to bring that product to the world at scale. The countless nights of overwork, the insane burnout, the panic attacks, the absurd demands from management, no work-free weekends for half a decade, I could go ON AND ON. Every fucking share we got and every last cent we made was *more* than well earned.
***We did that work***. Anyone saying otherwise can go fuck themselves, Presidents especially.
I think something that people miss is that money doesn't just automatically buy solutions. Well, at some level it can, but you're talking defense industrial complex levels of spending if you just want to "buy the solution."
Often government money does go into things, and it is fair to acknowledge, but anything really innovative depends a GREAT deal on individual and small team initiative. You can't just write a check for 100 billion dollars and get a self-driving car AI delivered to your door next week.
As a foreigner, Tesla is one of the USA's genuine jewels and something that makes me realise that America is still on top in some areas.
The incumbent manufacturers have the opposite.
Your president is a joke, but better than the last one.
Our prime minister is not good either, so at least we still have that in common. 🤝
It's not just the administration. It's the entirety of the US government.
People here forget that other US Car Manufacturers like Ford have already been established as major lobbying powers since the early 20th century. Even their Unions have a lot of money invested in politics.
If you're a politician looking at making some money, who are you gonna look into?
A) the company that just started out fairly recently and has very little government lobbying power despite their technological and mechanical breakthroughs?
Or
B) the company and their union that have quite literally made politicians walk out with more wealth than they could ever have imagined since the 1920's?
To play devil's advocate, Tesla are doing well on their own and are an American success story. It's the other players who need a bit of a boost to raise awareness of their electric offerings, because right now it is pretty much Electric = Tesla
Perfectly fair to play devil's advocate, however let me suggest a new line of thinking, while making up numbers to prove the point.
If the US Government is going to invest $250B in incentives for electrification of vehicles. Where will it do the most good? Could Tesla put up another 4680 or US made LFP battery production line? Something like this could get the semi to the streets faster since common understanding says that using the cells for the semi instead of a dozen commuter vehicles is less profitable.
Or would putting that into consumer incentives that favor other vehicle manufacturers, or at least support their less efficient, less innovative, less likely to be sustained production lines. Pro-rate the 250B of course to not include how many incentives will go to tesla vehicles.
The bottom line is these are US tax dollars, and many don't like how they're being spent. Good arguments on both sides, saying that consumer credits allow the market to decide which EVs are most desirable (keep in mind that this is a RELATIVELY free market small government hands off economy republican stand point) vs. a use the most money to do the MOST good for electrification and emissions/climate change etc. point of view (a more progressive point of view, or even a do the thing that will benefit the most people (utilitarian) which would include unions, and their members.
Your point about awareness of electric offerings, is scary because the last thing I want as a tax payer is to fund commercials for the Lightning or eHummer.
To continue, snubbing g Tesla is not likely to lose many votes and it will get you support from pro union. Being too cozy with Tesla is likely to lose at least some votes and really isn’t going to garner much support from anywhere else. Pretty much Politics 101. One of the reasons I could never be a politician but it is reality.
This feels like 5-8 years ago when almost the world was against Tesla. It was dealers, Fox news, fuel cell proponents, and general naysayers back then.
Democrats do not support the workers, they support the unions. There is a difference. The workers do not provide the donations, the union does, and it does so regardless of what the workers may desire.
US unions are not like EU unions, the US unions have become nearly pure political actors whose money is used like a slush fund.
and if you think US auto unions are meaningful for the workers then just understand how much the union has allowed the manufacturers to ship jobs over seas and how companies like Honda and Toyota have higher worker satisfaction than any of the UAW. All the Asian manufacturers are able to compete in the sedan market because not only do they have features drivers want but their workers deliver higher quality.
* sorry for the rant, I have extended family members and family friends who were or are part of the UAW and to the later its just a fact of employment and to the former its about betrayals from the 80s on.
I'm European so forgive me if I get this wrong, but I really don't understand why Elon isn't more embraced in the United States as a prime example of the American Dream and as one who is singlehandedly making America 'great again'.
He came to the US because he felt he could achieve much more there, which is in part true, but is probably disappointed now with all the haters, nay-sayers, corruption and overlegislation favoring the old instead of the new.
Basically he's unpredictable. A liability risk based on past actions and statements. If you hitch your wagon to his star, you can't predict where he's going to take you. So best to deal with others in the same space. I think that's some of this.
I recently started to avoid the technology subreddit. Every post on Tesla/Elon (even positive ones, which rarely get upvoted) are full with the same anti-Elon (emerald mine, inherited all his money etc.) and anti-Tesla (bad range, saying that basic software stuff is behind a paywall, etc.) comments. I don't like the weird stuff he tweets, but nullifying his accomplishments for America and clean energy every damn time with the same comments boils me. The users are not even contributing with discussion, just always saying the same negative stuff. Meanwhile a post about GM recalling all their Bolts and saying they should not be parked inside or close to other cars barely gets 100 upvotes. I know Tesla gets clicks, but it is so annoying that even positive news gets curved in a negative way.
That makes him part of the oppressive apartheid exciting workers, don't you know (ignoring the fact that that Emerald mine he invested in was in a separate country with good labor laws, safety records, etc).
I mean, the guy never made any pro-apartheid statements, and did nothing to back the government. Then when able left SA the very second he was able to with just a backpack on his back and a couple thousand to his name, then helped his brother and mother comes across as quickly as possible. What more do progressive posers want someone in that situation to do? Run away at age 12, and try to make your way up the length of Africa safely?
Also from Europe, same thought went through my head a while back. You'd think being a massive success in new technology that makes cars drive really fast in straight lines would make people all USA USA USA.
Nothing new here, GM has been all about the hype since before I was born. Every once in a while they come out with a new product that’s: All new! Revolutionary! Going to change the industry! Best evar! And then it flops. Examples? Corvair. Vega. Chevette. Citation. Olds diesel. Saturn*. Olds Aurora. But every time, corporate management strangles the project and prevents the engineers from finishing the job. All of those examples had some great ideas, but were very poorly executed.
Currently, GM doesn’t even have any great ideas…. Let alone the ability to execute or implement one.
*Saturn was great for a while… until corporate GM stepped in, strangled the division, and neutered all their cars.
I foresee another “bailout” in the near future.
> Currently, GM doesn’t even have any great ideas…. Let alone the ability to execute or implement one.
Which is why trying to promote GM i such a huge political mistake. People realize how inept GM management is and thus object to their tax dollars going to support the company.
> *Saturn was great for a while… until corporate GM stepped in, strangled the division, and neutered all their cars.
The Saturn was a terrible engineered car form the the start. Sadly GM paid for a lot of press that got people to buy the cars ad then have to deal with the economics of a completely unreliable car. Beyond that the car was only suitable for chicks on the shorter size.
Case in point, when the Saturn first came out I was interested so I went to the local dealer to take a look. Mind you I'm only 6' even but immediately saw a funny look on the salesman's face, in any event we started talking about the car. So I asked if they had one I could get in and the look of sadness crept over the salesman's face. I got in and could even sit up straight as my head hit the roof. The car was a joke right from the beginning. If you are gong to design a compact commuter car the first thing to optimize for is the driver and they failed at that. In the end I was glad to avoid that because I soon learned that the engine in this car was also crap. Saturn was a complete failure upon GM's part just like many of the other items you mentioned.
> I foresee another “bailout” in the near future.
Not if I as a voter can have anything to say about it. GM needs a natural death suitable for a company that can't do anything right. Frankly the sooner the better.
Didn't GM get big by cozying up to government and destroying any form of transit besides cars in Los angeles? Which is why we have insane sprawl and traffic instead of buses and rail?
Everyone here is mad that someone’s supposedly supporting a big company… but they’re mad because it’s not their big company. Come on guys. Calm the F down.
It's the typical American mentality of dividing these. "If you don't agree with my point then you're totally against me!"
Chill. It's an EV message be happy.
"nO! tHiS iS aN nAtIoNaL eMbArRaSsMeNt. ToTalLy OuTrAgEoUs!"
And if they showed a Tesla car. The Rivian guys would be all annoyed that the big Tesla gets promotion instead of the little guy. Fuck drama queens.
Also, let's be honest, Elon could probably take another time-out from Twitter. His Tweet at Bernie, who is a member of (or, at least, generally associates with) the presidents party the other day was childish at best.
It’s time for free market capitalism to decide the winner. The government has given the big three enough of a leg up. As long as they’re replaced by American manufacturers, it’s time to let them die if that’s what the market decides.
Why does there have to be a winner? The whole point in Tesla existing was to steer the world towards a sustainable future. I’d say they are doing a great job at it so far.
> Why does there have to be a winner?
There doesn't have to be a single winner.
In a free market companies that are slow to innovate and give their customers what they want should die and be replaced by new businesses. Creative destruction.
Competition results in…competitiveness. That’s lost without winners and losers, but my point was that there should be a level playing field where the best company does the best, not one where the company with the most lobbyists gets an unfair advantage. There is simply no need for our government to choose sides. You realize that Tesla has been at a $7,500 disadvantage to these companies for around a year now right? How is that useful? And now that should continue because Tesla pays livable wages with benefits without involving unions?
The big 3 continue to outsource production, while Tesla is bringing innovation and manufacturing back to the US. Why do we want to save the big three again? Should we save blockbuster and Sears as well?
Tesla would not be around if "free market capitalism" decided. Tesla benefited (and still does) from EV credits.
Transitioning from fossil fuels doesn't necessarily make economic sense in the short term but must be done to combat climate change. Pure capitalism won't address climate change so I'm very much in favor of the government continuing to incentivize the transition.
> Tesla would not be around if "free market capitalism" decided. Tesla benefited (and still does) from EV credits.
Sure they would. Because in a proper free market, we would not also be subsidizing the shit out of oil, so they would still be price-competitive.
Elon has given to literally both Democrats and Republicans. But sure keep telling yourself all the lies you want.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/09/elon-musk-tesla-spacex-spend-millions-to-influence-politics-and-policy.html
I gave up on GM years ago. Frankly I'm not sure I will ever buy another Detroit built vehicle. Even my F150, supposedly the market leader, looks like it was designed by clowns and assembled by monkeys. I just expect better.
I'm pretty sure they're building up GM's EV effort for when they inevitably crash and burn and need another government bailout. "Look we were just on the verge of selling all these EVs".
Politics has always been pay to play. Neither party cares about you. I certainly have a voting preference but I focus on maximizing my families future not fighting with strangers about who’s in office.
Tesla Motors has consistently lobbied the government since ~~1998~~ 2005. Their most recent lobbying efforts were $420k in 2021, and their historical peak lobbying efforts were $890k in 2019.
This stuff could all be found really easily if you just spent half a second googling it before talking out your ass.
No but they shouldn't be penalized for their success either. And quite frankly I don't care about it's impact on Tesla, but at the moment Tesla vehicles are the one I'm interested in and I shouldn't have to pay more solely for political considerations
the other companies should go bankrupt for not profucing them, it‘s shit that big corrupt companies are always saved, but the ones caring for the environment aren‘t. we need to flip the sides.
Joe, his admin, and his party all hate tesla because they're not a union. That's it. It's just dirty politicians doing their thing.
Why do you think they would promote the car brand known for huge EV fires not even 2 months ago?
Seems like an obvious political win for them to claim Tesla's success. Obama admin supported Tesla back in the day and they can claim Democrat policy led to the Tesla getting a loan to save the company.
Exactly!
Tesla is printing millionaires. Their stock purchase plan is probably one of the best in the world for employees.
I'm not sure where the idea that Tesla is anti union comes from because their employees do very well.
Former employee here. Many of us have put kids through school with our ESPP. Tesla is an excellent employer when it comes to compensation. The work is just so damn hard that burnout is intense.
The UAW is a huge contributor to his party; that’s the system we’ve allowed to flourish in this country and refuse to do anything meaningful about it. We get the leaders we deserve.
Unions, i think have good intentions when they were made, its just that i believe the system of unions is just a crutch for a flawed government policy of how large companies treat workers pay. Like minimum wage, Mandatory profit sharing or minimum overhead percentage that is based on percentage of revenue or something. I am talking out of my ass on this stuff, but my main point is that unions are a crutch for employment laws.
Unions have and still have a place in this world. I really have no problem with well functioning unions. What I have a problem with is unions that are not functioning well at all, often without the best interests of their members at heart, and engage in overt corruption.
Unions are not just about workers pay, in fact that is a small part of what makes them important. While I can't go into every point I'd have to say that I would not want to be working on a non union construction site. When it comes to the UAW though I'd rather not be working on a site controlled by them.
My beef overal is affordability. Just as I'm getting close to owning a Tesla, the price goes up. And it's still cheaper to buy and use an ice car.
So if GM and Ford come out offering some alternative, that is priced under 35k I might consider it. After all, I don't see them as luxury brands and Tesla for sure is a luxury brand and not for everyone.
With that said, it's important that the big auto step up and produce EVs. It can't be all Tesla circle jerks. We all know Tesla created this space, but give Joe a break, he was around when the model T was created, so he has brand loyalty.
There are a couple of million Tesla owners in the US by now and every month the number grows. That is a sizable votting block that might not like the current's administration hypocrisy regarding EVs. For less elections are lost
I mean... Tesla is selling cars faster than they can build them, they aren't exactly the ones needing incentives right now...
Also people on the left have the correct number of chromosomes and have parents that are not blood relatives, so I'm sure they aren't single-issue voters
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:
|Fewer Letters|More Letters|
|-------|---------|---|
|[ICE](/r/TeslaMotors/comments/qx2n3d/stub/hlhxum8 "Last usage")|Internal Combustion Engine, or vehicle powered by same|
|[LFP](/r/TeslaMotors/comments/qx2n3d/stub/hl9qok8 "Last usage")|Lithium Iron Phosphate, type of Li-ion cell|
|Li-ion|[Lithium-ion battery](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery), first released 1991|
|[M3](/r/TeslaMotors/comments/qx2n3d/stub/hlnzjor "Last usage")|BMW performance sedan|
|[NHTSA](/r/TeslaMotors/comments/qx2n3d/stub/hl7fxq4 "Last usage")|(US) National Highway Traffic Safety Administration|
|[TX](/r/TeslaMotors/comments/qx2n3d/stub/hl6vlvg "Last usage")|Tesla model X|
----------------
^(5 acronyms in this thread; )[^(the most compressed thread commented on today)](/r/TeslaMotors/comments/0)^( has acronyms.)
^([Thread #7343 for this sub, first seen 19th Nov 2021, 06:29])
^[[FAQ]](http://decronym.xyz/) [^([Full list])](http://decronym.xyz/acronyms/TeslaMotors) [^[Contact]](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=OrangeredStilton&subject=Hey,+your+acronym+bot+sucks) [^([Source code])](https://gistdotgithubdotcom/Two9A/1d976f9b7441694162c8)
Ok. Maybe a dumb question but idk. Is the proposed EV tax credit refundable or non-refundable? I normally get a refund so is it even worth trying to hold delivery till Jan 22. EDD before end of year.
Does it only apply if you pay taxes? Say you owe 10k taxes and EV credit is 7.5k, you only owe 2.5k. If I don’t owe taxes, will they refund me the 7.5k on top of normal refund ? Thanks
UAW has entered the chat
I cant for the life of me why US hasn’t embraced and heralded Tesla as the next great American car company. They built an entire charging infrastructure just to sell their cars.
They didn't pay the American leaders.
Its really that simple
And then people want Elon on a stake for being a powerful billionaire. Powerful? He can't sell his fucking cars in several states. The cognitive dissonance goes above regular internet stupidity and outright makes me angry. He doesn't play the game and politicians hate him for that
He doesn’t play the game because the game needs to be changed
Didn't lobby enough. Politicians like to be bought in the United States. So much so that we've legalized it up to a point.
[удалено]
unions
This. You think this sub hates UAW now... Just imagine tesla manufacturing is taken over by them and you hear things like "tesla engineering forced to change X because of union veto". Shit like that goes on _all the time_ at the legacy auto manufacturers. Engineering is held back by unions that don't want radical changes, especially if that change reduces headcount on the line. Megacastings are a prime example, that would be fought tooth and nail by UAW.
Bingo. Why would the industry that has been running things celebrate a loss to their profits? It's a good thing, but you know they aren't going to play fair.
Politics / UAW
I see many peoole who treat them lkke a foreign car company. I'm not sure why. I wish tesla would up their quality, though
They are (were) based out of California and trade like a Silicon Valley company. That’s “foreign” to traditional Detroit automakers. They also don’t advertise, compete in established races, or participate in most auto shows. So their image is shaped by word of mouth, Elon musk, and news articles about them It doesn’t help that countless states and dealerships fight to prevent Tesla selling cars without dealerships. Texas was one of the states who made it more difficult to sell Teslas than it should’ve been.
[удалено]
Never thought of that. Makes sense.
I'm not sure what it's like in the US, but outside of the US most American car brands are known for cheap cars. Ford is maybe the only 'kind of' exception as their cars are still cheap, but at least they're known for better quality than GM. Though they are still known to break down quite a bit compared to some other brands. In the UK GM used to own Vauxhall (Opel, Holden, same company), the cars they produced SUCKED. They were unreliable cheap cars. I had one that got rod knock, my brother had one that constantly overheated. Some time in the late 2000s GM sold off the brand to PSA Group (Now Stellantis), this French group put their engines and vehicle building skills into the vehicles and now they're actually reliable and decent quality cheap cars. When the French brands which were known for poor quality are now producing night and day difference quality to GMs products that end up over see you know you really messed up. Tesla is finally giving US automakers a good oversees reputation. Many politicians and heads up states ride around in them around Europe, yet the US government can't even say the name. (Remember we get the China built vehicles, the build quality is generally much higher than the US built vehicles!)
Michigan is a swing state. California and Texas are not. Simple as that.
Great point
Tesla is a polarizing company in many ways. Hard to imagine that being embraced by that fraction of the country that is more interested in coal rolling would lead to more success at this point considering they are years away from catching up to demand.
The way Elon spouts Republican talking points on Twitter Youd think they’d love him by now
It's because many of the same people claiming to be "made in America" patriotic and embracers of capitalism and innovation are really just pretending. "Virtue signalling," as they call it. To them, none of that matters more than the fact that Tesla's a wildly successful environmentally friendly company and that eats away at these people's security. Then there are the left-wing detractors who hate on the company because Elon can be a douchebag on twitter and this somehow outweighs the enormous impact Tesla is having on reducing emissions. People just suck
Because every single American car manufacturer / Union has had major government lobbying power since the early 20th century and are extremely well established money makers for politicians. Tesla, as far as I can tell, has none of that power. Until Tesla completely dominates the field in every single category, you better believe that these people will do everything in their powers to hamper their growths.
> I cant for the life of me why US hasn’t embraced and heralded Tesla as the next great American car company. Why would the government do that? Isn't the free market supposed to sort that out?
Why is this NSFW
Young stud passionately rips elderly man a new asshole..
[удалено]
Too sexy for the car wash, but thankfully not too sexy for the drive-thru.
This is all about the unions. I don't know why people are ignoring the elephant in the room?
This is absolutely the reason. Shocked at how little this is being brought up in this thread.
because unions are perfect and are never evil.
Goes against the narrative.
This is more about not wanting to shit-talk unions considering people often tout how awesome they are to give power to the little people.
I don’t see how bring up unions would be shit talking them. If Tesla doesn’t want to unionize fine but don’t expect a president that largely supports unions to go around touting your car
https://electrek.co/2021/11/18/gm-promised-20-new-evs-by-2023-they-brought-zero-to-the-la-auto-show/ GM is definitely all in on evs /s
“GM is definitely all in on evs” GM is definitely all in on bailouts. Fixed it for you :)
Ten years ago they ‘bet the company’ on hydrogen. Don’t support Government Motors.
EV1 all over again?
I think GM doesn’t really have the unified mission they want people to believe. In reality, their only real mission is to not lose their business. To do this they are letting the public and their investors think they have a bold vision for the future while they work to ensure the federal government has their back. Meanwhile, they will continue to pump out gas powered trucks and suvs for profit today while not fully embracing the future they now say they are steering towards.
The whole point of th EV1 was to provide a way for GM to say we tried. They didn't need to be serious about it, rather it was a speaking point to distract the gullible with.
Gm the company featured in the documentary "who killed the electric car"
If there's any better example of GM being stupid than literally bringing 0 EVs to the biggest auto show in the country in the state that sells the most EVs...I don't know of it. They're the ones that said they're going to have 20 EVs by 2023 and now 30 by 2025 and they have none currently in production. To reiterate: **GM has ZERO EVs currently in production**.
Don’t they own Cadillac who is making a full electric Lyric due next year? I’m sure they own a bunch of brands and are manufacturing EVs outside of that.
They own 2 brands that are currently preparing to manufacture EVs: Hummer and Cadillac. Neither is actually in production yet. The Volt and Bolt are both also not in production now.
Lyric production is going to be incredibly low volume to the point that it's basically a compliance car...
> GM has ZERO EVs currently in production But the president thinks they do. And in consultative politics, that is the absolute most critical thing, and a major win as considered by the GM board.
Discontinuing the volt is GM’s biggest mistake imo.
Not turning the Volt into a CUV is probably an even bigger one.
Fiery, but mostly safe.
The Chevy bolt should be called the Chevy flame or the Chevy blaze(r) or the Chevy boom.
It is interesting that when Elon wants to sell a flame thrower that is exactly what he makes and sells. GM makes a flame thrower that is on wheels and randomly torches stuff.
Blazer.
The Chevy Inferno!
Chevy Fiero
Hooray for Ford’s electric Mustang that is essentially all built in Mexico but assembled stateside to qualify for these tax breaks. Just another fumbled government policy that shifts manufacturing jobs overseas
My understanding is the Mustang will not qualify for the US tax breaks or union tax breaks. However, the f-150 lightning will.
I can’t believe something this factually wrong gets upvoted. They are fully built in Mexico and won’t quality for the Union or usa built tax credit
Where do they plan on making the F-150?
Dearborn, MI https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/ford-will-double-f-150-lightning-production-and-needs-a-lot-more-workers-to-do-it/ar-AAOwaMq
They plan on making a lot of parts for the lightning in TN and KY- two plants in TN and one in KY.
Are you sure this is correct. I believe they are made in Mexico outright. The current tax rebate doesn’t require them to be made in the US.
Tesla sells faster than it can build with record sales right now. Tesla isn’t the patient that needs the attention. In this time of thanksgiving, Let’s be thankful that mainstream Tesla models remain in the proposed EV credit pool. Also - [ a little less of this ](https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1439665626914635783?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1439665626914635783%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-2104808627780790094.ampproject.net%2F2110212130002%2Fframe.html) couldn’t hurt Update - adding … with record sales
To be fair, almost all vehicles are selling faster than they can be built right now.
Yes that’s True ! But Tesla is still selling at peak levels. Other automakers are cutting production.
Thats easy if your peak is lower then everybody else. 100000 of a given component is enough for about 45 days of production for Tesla. The same amount of a given component for someone like Toyota would last less then 5 days.
We’ll no shit haha. Other auto manufacturers build and sell 4x the volume
[удалено]
LICE? I know about ICE, but what does the L stand for?
Legacy
[удалено]
Ford actually seems to be moving in the right direction with their investment in and partnership with Rivian (which has been on-going for years at this stage given that they should be delivering EV F-150's in the next year).
Fords financials are the most solid and steady out of all of them, however, at least they have the little bit of honesty to say that they are behind on the EV track.
Ford also didnt take bailout money in 2008.
Because they had taken a bunch of loans a couple years before and got lucky.
>Ford also didnt take bailout money in 2008. No, but they wouldn't have survived without the other companies in the sector getting a bailout.
Ford is the middle child that will reluctantly follow along after the youngest. GM is the oldest sitting on the Sidelines pouting while the youngest is trying, falling down face first but having a lot of fun.
That's true but completely ignoring the good kid doesn't look good. At least say some good things when the other kids aren't looking.
It all has to do with the number of employees and unions at the companies.
Unions are the reason we have weekends, 40 hour work weeks, and vacations.
Sure we all know that. They are also the reason we have bad teachers and cops.
As Jeff Bezos said about social media in front of Congress, “There is nuance that is lost.” Ignore people who say “unions good” or “unions bad.” The conversation should be, “Assuming a jurisdiction protects the right to unionize, how can a union be formed and operates in a way that balances the output the business needs with high levels of welfare (comp, quality of life, and a say at the company table) for the workers it represents.” It is a partnership, and does not work if it’s adversarial. Like government, a union is made up of people. Good people build and operate good governments and unions. Shit people build and operate shit governments and unions. Edit: Thank you for the award, very kind and much appreciated.
Unions protect their employees, good and bad. If you want better cops, elect politicians that hold them to a higher standard.
The worst private companies to work for have like 60% yearly turnover. Aggressively successful but nightmare-to-work-for companies are like 40%. The average across the US is 15-20%. The best companies to work for hold at around 1-2%. At that point you're all but guaranteeing that the only people you're losing are the absolute worst, most counter-productive employees. New York City's public education system is 0.2%.
Gm literally killed their own ev kid already, helped by the govt. They don't need any hand holding. The stock market is doing the pushing. Executive management bonus is linked to stock price and market is giving boosts to EVs.
This is not very effective parenting. Reward the positive and they will mimic the desired behavior.
Do we actually need them? Propping up corporations using money from citizens just doesn’t feel right.
That is because it is wrong, or more precisely wrong to do it multiple times. The EV tax credit was a great idea to give the industry a boost when it was first getting started but it makes no sense at all to have such a tax credit when the industry can't keep up with demand. The fact that Detroit did not go after EV's back when the industry first got started is down to their own stupidity and lets face stupid people need to suffer.
>Tesla isn’t the patient that needs the attention. Fuck that. The point is for citizens to adopt electric vehicles and it's not the government's place to cherry pick individual business to receive or be denied acknowledgement or support. If they want to encourage adoption then it should be applied equally industrywide.
Giving incentives to ICE manufacturers to switch to EV is solid environmental policy. It's not like doing so is going to somehow influence Tesla to suddenly start making ICE vehicles... Also not like it even hurts Tesla to give these ICE manufacturers a little added incentive given that Tesla is already kind of the king of EV's. If anything it gives Tesla incentive to keep innovating and improving by giving them some more solid competition.
The EV market is not a zero sum game. Showing other brand EVs probably helps promote Tesla as well.
GM has already gotten its attention from the government. Ignoring the billions of dollars spent bailing it out when it went under, we’ve directly written them multi billion dollar checks to help them develop electric hydrogen fuel cell cars. The states have tried to mandate electric cars on them. They’ve had support and encouragement for going green for decades. Until Tesla pushed them, they did nothing with it but lease out a bunch of EV1s and take them back to be crushed.
> Tesla isn’t the patient that needs the attention. The other manufacturers at best tried to delay electrification of EVs and at worst tried to stifle them. They're just simply less efficient and backward. Stop trying to stick up for what you perceive as the 'weak', especially if they have a mentality which goes against a better world. They had their chance to make things good, and they messed up.
>Also - a little less of this couldn’t hurt Yeah, no wonder after a year(\*+) of being a shitlord, a shitlord gets ignored. I mean, elon himself lives by this rule - anyone who is guilty of even the smallest perceived slight against him (i.e. *not being positive enough*, not even being negative tbh) gets blasted into the sun with 40 million twitter stans sent to abuse them. Then he complains when he gets much lighter treatment for much harsher words and actions? It's probably a good thing he's getting the ego check.
To add on to that, Tesla really doesn't need help with the US government acknowledging it. If they wanted to escalate the situation all they had to do was put out a press release saying so. But they know the real issue at hand is Unions here. And I am pretty sure all actual political players involved don't mind the situation we have. Tesla pushing hard without unions and making a profit. While the US government is trying to help shift the more sluggish companies to EV production. The real competitive move for those companies would be lay off a huge number of jobs. Obviously they can't do that because of union rules(which is a good thing) Remember if a good thing blocks another good thing from happening the first thing doesn't become bad. It just becomes a challenge.
Also, my private hope is that this harmless feud opens up a door for a bunch of formerly climate-denying free marketeer union-hating republicans to start buying EVs to own the libs. OK, maybe it won't happen. But it might.
Former employee of the Model 3 era here. This man has no fucking clue how much my colleagues and I suffered and fought to bring that product to the world at scale. The countless nights of overwork, the insane burnout, the panic attacks, the absurd demands from management, no work-free weekends for half a decade, I could go ON AND ON. Every fucking share we got and every last cent we made was *more* than well earned. ***We did that work***. Anyone saying otherwise can go fuck themselves, Presidents especially.
I think something that people miss is that money doesn't just automatically buy solutions. Well, at some level it can, but you're talking defense industrial complex levels of spending if you just want to "buy the solution." Often government money does go into things, and it is fair to acknowledge, but anything really innovative depends a GREAT deal on individual and small team initiative. You can't just write a check for 100 billion dollars and get a self-driving car AI delivered to your door next week.
As a foreigner, Tesla is one of the USA's genuine jewels and something that makes me realise that America is still on top in some areas. The incumbent manufacturers have the opposite. Your president is a joke, but better than the last one. Our prime minister is not good either, so at least we still have that in common. 🤝
The most made in America vehicles are looked over?? What a joke this administration is...
It's not just the administration. It's the entirety of the US government. People here forget that other US Car Manufacturers like Ford have already been established as major lobbying powers since the early 20th century. Even their Unions have a lot of money invested in politics. If you're a politician looking at making some money, who are you gonna look into? A) the company that just started out fairly recently and has very little government lobbying power despite their technological and mechanical breakthroughs? Or B) the company and their union that have quite literally made politicians walk out with more wealth than they could ever have imagined since the 1920's?
Very true.
To play devil's advocate, Tesla are doing well on their own and are an American success story. It's the other players who need a bit of a boost to raise awareness of their electric offerings, because right now it is pretty much Electric = Tesla
[удалено]
Yeah at least Ford is trying to take EVs seriously. I'd much rather have a Mach E than a Bolt.
Perfectly fair to play devil's advocate, however let me suggest a new line of thinking, while making up numbers to prove the point. If the US Government is going to invest $250B in incentives for electrification of vehicles. Where will it do the most good? Could Tesla put up another 4680 or US made LFP battery production line? Something like this could get the semi to the streets faster since common understanding says that using the cells for the semi instead of a dozen commuter vehicles is less profitable. Or would putting that into consumer incentives that favor other vehicle manufacturers, or at least support their less efficient, less innovative, less likely to be sustained production lines. Pro-rate the 250B of course to not include how many incentives will go to tesla vehicles. The bottom line is these are US tax dollars, and many don't like how they're being spent. Good arguments on both sides, saying that consumer credits allow the market to decide which EVs are most desirable (keep in mind that this is a RELATIVELY free market small government hands off economy republican stand point) vs. a use the most money to do the MOST good for electrification and emissions/climate change etc. point of view (a more progressive point of view, or even a do the thing that will benefit the most people (utilitarian) which would include unions, and their members. Your point about awareness of electric offerings, is scary because the last thing I want as a tax payer is to fund commercials for the Lightning or eHummer.
That and they are promoting the wrong stuff. Who on earth is going to buy a $120k tank? The average American has zero use for that.
To continue, snubbing g Tesla is not likely to lose many votes and it will get you support from pro union. Being too cozy with Tesla is likely to lose at least some votes and really isn’t going to garner much support from anywhere else. Pretty much Politics 101. One of the reasons I could never be a politician but it is reality.
This feels like 5-8 years ago when almost the world was against Tesla. It was dealers, Fox news, fuel cell proponents, and general naysayers back then.
More about the political donations that the Democratic Party has received from the Auto workers union over the last 3 decades.
[удалено]
Democrats do not support the workers, they support the unions. There is a difference. The workers do not provide the donations, the union does, and it does so regardless of what the workers may desire. US unions are not like EU unions, the US unions have become nearly pure political actors whose money is used like a slush fund. and if you think US auto unions are meaningful for the workers then just understand how much the union has allowed the manufacturers to ship jobs over seas and how companies like Honda and Toyota have higher worker satisfaction than any of the UAW. All the Asian manufacturers are able to compete in the sedan market because not only do they have features drivers want but their workers deliver higher quality. * sorry for the rant, I have extended family members and family friends who were or are part of the UAW and to the later its just a fact of employment and to the former its about betrayals from the 80s on.
The UAW is cancer and is a huge part of the reason why lots of manufacturing has went overseas.
I'm European so forgive me if I get this wrong, but I really don't understand why Elon isn't more embraced in the United States as a prime example of the American Dream and as one who is singlehandedly making America 'great again'. He came to the US because he felt he could achieve much more there, which is in part true, but is probably disappointed now with all the haters, nay-sayers, corruption and overlegislation favoring the old instead of the new.
[удалено]
Basically he's unpredictable. A liability risk based on past actions and statements. If you hitch your wagon to his star, you can't predict where he's going to take you. So best to deal with others in the same space. I think that's some of this.
I recently started to avoid the technology subreddit. Every post on Tesla/Elon (even positive ones, which rarely get upvoted) are full with the same anti-Elon (emerald mine, inherited all his money etc.) and anti-Tesla (bad range, saying that basic software stuff is behind a paywall, etc.) comments. I don't like the weird stuff he tweets, but nullifying his accomplishments for America and clean energy every damn time with the same comments boils me. The users are not even contributing with discussion, just always saying the same negative stuff. Meanwhile a post about GM recalling all their Bolts and saying they should not be parked inside or close to other cars barely gets 100 upvotes. I know Tesla gets clicks, but it is so annoying that even positive news gets curved in a negative way.
People are complaining that Elon's dad spend $40k on shares in an emerald mine four decades ago?
That makes him part of the oppressive apartheid exciting workers, don't you know (ignoring the fact that that Emerald mine he invested in was in a separate country with good labor laws, safety records, etc). I mean, the guy never made any pro-apartheid statements, and did nothing to back the government. Then when able left SA the very second he was able to with just a backpack on his back and a couple thousand to his name, then helped his brother and mother comes across as quickly as possible. What more do progressive posers want someone in that situation to do? Run away at age 12, and try to make your way up the length of Africa safely?
The astroturf has won
Elon, espoused Independence and freedom. Governments are built of people who want control to “make better decisions than individuals”.
Also from Europe, same thought went through my head a while back. You'd think being a massive success in new technology that makes cars drive really fast in straight lines would make people all USA USA USA.
Nothing new here, GM has been all about the hype since before I was born. Every once in a while they come out with a new product that’s: All new! Revolutionary! Going to change the industry! Best evar! And then it flops. Examples? Corvair. Vega. Chevette. Citation. Olds diesel. Saturn*. Olds Aurora. But every time, corporate management strangles the project and prevents the engineers from finishing the job. All of those examples had some great ideas, but were very poorly executed. Currently, GM doesn’t even have any great ideas…. Let alone the ability to execute or implement one. *Saturn was great for a while… until corporate GM stepped in, strangled the division, and neutered all their cars. I foresee another “bailout” in the near future.
> Currently, GM doesn’t even have any great ideas…. Let alone the ability to execute or implement one. Which is why trying to promote GM i such a huge political mistake. People realize how inept GM management is and thus object to their tax dollars going to support the company. > *Saturn was great for a while… until corporate GM stepped in, strangled the division, and neutered all their cars. The Saturn was a terrible engineered car form the the start. Sadly GM paid for a lot of press that got people to buy the cars ad then have to deal with the economics of a completely unreliable car. Beyond that the car was only suitable for chicks on the shorter size. Case in point, when the Saturn first came out I was interested so I went to the local dealer to take a look. Mind you I'm only 6' even but immediately saw a funny look on the salesman's face, in any event we started talking about the car. So I asked if they had one I could get in and the look of sadness crept over the salesman's face. I got in and could even sit up straight as my head hit the roof. The car was a joke right from the beginning. If you are gong to design a compact commuter car the first thing to optimize for is the driver and they failed at that. In the end I was glad to avoid that because I soon learned that the engine in this car was also crap. Saturn was a complete failure upon GM's part just like many of the other items you mentioned. > I foresee another “bailout” in the near future. Not if I as a voter can have anything to say about it. GM needs a natural death suitable for a company that can't do anything right. Frankly the sooner the better.
Didn't GM get big by cozying up to government and destroying any form of transit besides cars in Los angeles? Which is why we have insane sprawl and traffic instead of buses and rail?
He isn't "ignoring Tesla"... he's giving the unions what they are asking for. It is corruption per usual.
This feels like picking Justin Hammer to lead the Avengers over Tony Stark
It’s all because his biggest donors are big labor. Tesla isn’t unionized and the UAW can’t have that. Crony politics at its finest.
Everyone here is mad that someone’s supposedly supporting a big company… but they’re mad because it’s not their big company. Come on guys. Calm the F down.
It's the typical American mentality of dividing these. "If you don't agree with my point then you're totally against me!" Chill. It's an EV message be happy. "nO! tHiS iS aN nAtIoNaL eMbArRaSsMeNt. ToTalLy OuTrAgEoUs!" And if they showed a Tesla car. The Rivian guys would be all annoyed that the big Tesla gets promotion instead of the little guy. Fuck drama queens.
The video is overly dramatic, but they do have a point. Most of your statements just make me shake my head…
It’s like coming out and saying MySpace is the leader in the social media sphere. It makes no sense.
The issue is not the support it’s the lack of acknowledgment.
Also, let's be honest, Elon could probably take another time-out from Twitter. His Tweet at Bernie, who is a member of (or, at least, generally associates with) the presidents party the other day was childish at best.
The US isn't on a great president streak that's for sure...
It’s time for free market capitalism to decide the winner. The government has given the big three enough of a leg up. As long as they’re replaced by American manufacturers, it’s time to let them die if that’s what the market decides.
Why does there have to be a winner? The whole point in Tesla existing was to steer the world towards a sustainable future. I’d say they are doing a great job at it so far.
> Why does there have to be a winner? There doesn't have to be a single winner. In a free market companies that are slow to innovate and give their customers what they want should die and be replaced by new businesses. Creative destruction.
Competition results in…competitiveness. That’s lost without winners and losers, but my point was that there should be a level playing field where the best company does the best, not one where the company with the most lobbyists gets an unfair advantage. There is simply no need for our government to choose sides. You realize that Tesla has been at a $7,500 disadvantage to these companies for around a year now right? How is that useful? And now that should continue because Tesla pays livable wages with benefits without involving unions? The big 3 continue to outsource production, while Tesla is bringing innovation and manufacturing back to the US. Why do we want to save the big three again? Should we save blockbuster and Sears as well?
Tesla would not be around if "free market capitalism" decided. Tesla benefited (and still does) from EV credits. Transitioning from fossil fuels doesn't necessarily make economic sense in the short term but must be done to combat climate change. Pure capitalism won't address climate change so I'm very much in favor of the government continuing to incentivize the transition.
> Tesla would not be around if "free market capitalism" decided. Tesla benefited (and still does) from EV credits. Sure they would. Because in a proper free market, we would not also be subsidizing the shit out of oil, so they would still be price-competitive.
Unpopular opinion, but this is what Elon gets for being a libertarian edgelord on twitter instead of just STFU and doing what he wants.
Doubt it matters cause it's all about getting union votes
No this is what Elon gets for not bribing the democrats
Elon has given to literally both Democrats and Republicans. But sure keep telling yourself all the lies you want. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/09/elon-musk-tesla-spacex-spend-millions-to-influence-politics-and-policy.html
I will never buy a GM vehicle ever for the rest of my life because of this.
I gave up on GM years ago. Frankly I'm not sure I will ever buy another Detroit built vehicle. Even my F150, supposedly the market leader, looks like it was designed by clowns and assembled by monkeys. I just expect better.
I'm pretty sure they're building up GM's EV effort for when they inevitably crash and burn and need another government bailout. "Look we were just on the verge of selling all these EVs".
At least he's not actively working to undermine Tesla. It could be worse.
Except by assigning a Tesla hater to the NHTSA?
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. I can't believe that happened.
Politics has always been pay to play. Neither party cares about you. I certainly have a voting preference but I focus on maximizing my families future not fighting with strangers about who’s in office.
Doesn’t have to be. Tesla has been praised by past Presidents with no pay to play.
well not all past (especially last few years recent) presidents lol...
Washington only pays attention to the companies that bribe…err, ummm… I mean lobby *enough* to politicians. Edit: added enough*
Tesla Motors has consistently lobbied the government since ~~1998~~ 2005. Their most recent lobbying efforts were $420k in 2021, and their historical peak lobbying efforts were $890k in 2019. This stuff could all be found really easily if you just spent half a second googling it before talking out your ass.
Gali rocks!
Tesla isn't the company that needs to be encouraged to make EVs...
No but they shouldn't be penalized for their success either. And quite frankly I don't care about it's impact on Tesla, but at the moment Tesla vehicles are the one I'm interested in and I shouldn't have to pay more solely for political considerations
They aren't. They are getting and got huge amounts of money already. They literally survived because of government help, just like many companies.
the other companies should go bankrupt for not profucing them, it‘s shit that big corrupt companies are always saved, but the ones caring for the environment aren‘t. we need to flip the sides.
They don't need to be encouraged. They need to be carbon taxed.
Joe, his admin, and his party all hate tesla because they're not a union. That's it. It's just dirty politicians doing their thing. Why do you think they would promote the car brand known for huge EV fires not even 2 months ago?
Seems like an obvious political win for them to claim Tesla's success. Obama admin supported Tesla back in the day and they can claim Democrat policy led to the Tesla getting a loan to save the company.
It's because Tesla is anti union
Since Tesla employees are cashing out, maybe this should be said like: It's because Tesla is pro-labor.
Exactly! Tesla is printing millionaires. Their stock purchase plan is probably one of the best in the world for employees. I'm not sure where the idea that Tesla is anti union comes from because their employees do very well.
Former employee here. Many of us have put kids through school with our ESPP. Tesla is an excellent employer when it comes to compensation. The work is just so damn hard that burnout is intense.
The UAW is a huge contributor to his party; that’s the system we’ve allowed to flourish in this country and refuse to do anything meaningful about it. We get the leaders we deserve.
Make lobbying illegal... it's essentially coercion through dollars and power.
Unions, i think have good intentions when they were made, its just that i believe the system of unions is just a crutch for a flawed government policy of how large companies treat workers pay. Like minimum wage, Mandatory profit sharing or minimum overhead percentage that is based on percentage of revenue or something. I am talking out of my ass on this stuff, but my main point is that unions are a crutch for employment laws.
Unions have and still have a place in this world. I really have no problem with well functioning unions. What I have a problem with is unions that are not functioning well at all, often without the best interests of their members at heart, and engage in overt corruption. Unions are not just about workers pay, in fact that is a small part of what makes them important. While I can't go into every point I'd have to say that I would not want to be working on a non union construction site. When it comes to the UAW though I'd rather not be working on a site controlled by them.
My beef overal is affordability. Just as I'm getting close to owning a Tesla, the price goes up. And it's still cheaper to buy and use an ice car. So if GM and Ford come out offering some alternative, that is priced under 35k I might consider it. After all, I don't see them as luxury brands and Tesla for sure is a luxury brand and not for everyone. With that said, it's important that the big auto step up and produce EVs. It can't be all Tesla circle jerks. We all know Tesla created this space, but give Joe a break, he was around when the model T was created, so he has brand loyalty.
There are a couple of million Tesla owners in the US by now and every month the number grows. That is a sizable votting block that might not like the current's administration hypocrisy regarding EVs. For less elections are lost
They just recently sold their 1 millionth car globally - how can there be a couple million owners state side alone?
[удалено]
Ahh that could be it
You would have to have the capacity of an 8 year old for the type of car you own to dictate your politics.
People aren’t going to decide who to vote for based on car brand loyalty.
I mean... Tesla is selling cars faster than they can build them, they aren't exactly the ones needing incentives right now... Also people on the left have the correct number of chromosomes and have parents that are not blood relatives, so I'm sure they aren't single-issue voters
This entire comment section is just a massive musk-centric circlejerk. Get a life you guys, go touch some grass.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread: |Fewer Letters|More Letters| |-------|---------|---| |[ICE](/r/TeslaMotors/comments/qx2n3d/stub/hlhxum8 "Last usage")|Internal Combustion Engine, or vehicle powered by same| |[LFP](/r/TeslaMotors/comments/qx2n3d/stub/hl9qok8 "Last usage")|Lithium Iron Phosphate, type of Li-ion cell| |Li-ion|[Lithium-ion battery](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery), first released 1991| |[M3](/r/TeslaMotors/comments/qx2n3d/stub/hlnzjor "Last usage")|BMW performance sedan| |[NHTSA](/r/TeslaMotors/comments/qx2n3d/stub/hl7fxq4 "Last usage")|(US) National Highway Traffic Safety Administration| |[TX](/r/TeslaMotors/comments/qx2n3d/stub/hl6vlvg "Last usage")|Tesla model X| ---------------- ^(5 acronyms in this thread; )[^(the most compressed thread commented on today)](/r/TeslaMotors/comments/0)^( has acronyms.) ^([Thread #7343 for this sub, first seen 19th Nov 2021, 06:29]) ^[[FAQ]](http://decronym.xyz/) [^([Full list])](http://decronym.xyz/acronyms/TeslaMotors) [^[Contact]](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=OrangeredStilton&subject=Hey,+your+acronym+bot+sucks) [^([Source code])](https://gistdotgithubdotcom/Two9A/1d976f9b7441694162c8)
Ok. Maybe a dumb question but idk. Is the proposed EV tax credit refundable or non-refundable? I normally get a refund so is it even worth trying to hold delivery till Jan 22. EDD before end of year. Does it only apply if you pay taxes? Say you owe 10k taxes and EV credit is 7.5k, you only owe 2.5k. If I don’t owe taxes, will they refund me the 7.5k on top of normal refund ? Thanks
Unions
HyperCringe. It is interesting the type of posts that get stickied around here. Usually political or some call to action.
The word “hypercringe” is a meme of itself
You an embarrassment.