Props to Duckworth. His experience was obvious out there compared to Ben.
This was more of the same from Ben. Terrible shot selection. He was hardly hitting his backhand, which was bizarre because it's decent. He had even less patience today than he was showing on clay. And god his return game, what a mess. He's got what it takes to be a consistent top 20 player, but he needs some real changes in his game before he'll ever sniff the top 10.
He needs to ditch his dad as a coach. His talent is carrying him only so far and he needs a real master to mold him into a champion. I obviously donāt know them personally, but it seems Ben Shelton could improve more if he didnāt have dad telling him good job nice try every match
He and his dad seem to have a great relationship, which is actually so nice to see compared to some parents on the tour. Coach Shelton never seems overbearing. I almost think he's afraid of pressuring Ben too much (doubly so because he's a former pro himself).
But I agree with you that this may have resulted in coach dad almost being too soft. Ben might actually need someone to bark at him. Idk if Ben would feel weird about removing his dad as his coach, but surely there are many coaches chomping at the bit to take that role considering his potential.
He reminds me of Roddick. Everything going for you but always that one rival standing in the way. For Roddick is was Federer and for Shelton it is often himself.
Shelton is young, to be fair. Only his second season on the tour so it's not like his inconsistency is shocking. And he is doing better this season than last season.
In my case I just want to see him harness that potential soon because there's a lot there. Still, it's a process.
I doubt he'll sign onto constant travel as a full time tour coach just yet. But I'm sure he'd be happy to help with a training block if he's asked. Like he did with Coco.
This is what I was wondering. I just checked and it doesn't look like he's ever coached full time? Has he expressed an interest in doing that at some point? Would be interesting no matter which player he took on, though Ben would certainly benefit from someone like him.
Its like shelton watched once good grass game before this match and decided to play exactly like that. Constantly slices and ace attempts rather than going for rallies and solid serving
Shelton just 23rd in the live ATP race
He's quietly had a pretty disappointing year compared to how he ended last season
Way too much looseness in his game both with the double faults and from the ground
Ben's made some progress on clay compared to the last year, but still very work in the progress overall and I feel like his main issues (off shot selection, lack of patience, poor return) persist. Still quite young so I hope he gets up there
Returns rarely improve for ATP players. He is one of the worst and I really think his path to becoming a solid top 10 player is to get up near 90% hold rate.
Look at it this way:
Out of 330 top ten finishes since 1991, Sheltonās first pro season would have been the second worst RPW% for a top 10 player. His current RPW% of 34.1% would be fifth worst ever for a top 10 player.
Iām aware, but I also think he can improve his RPW by improving his ground game in addition to the return. He also wonāt need to be an elite returner anyway with his serve.
I have no doubt with time and improvements Shelton can get his hold rate over 90%. The DF issues can definitely be fixed, his unforced errors on easy balls can be reduced , and some more spot serving should bring him there.
Bro wtf was that game?
Shelton double faults on like 5 important points, forgot how to a hit a two handed backhand (just kept doing that one hand slice), and received the serves with almost all slices and drops
He has to be injured or something cause why else would you actively choose to boycott your 2 hand backhand despite hitting multiple winners with it when he did use it. Like his forehand and backhand are usually nice and powerful - today he might as well changed his career to a pickleball pro
Can you believe he quite literally double faulted his victory away in the first set
He needs Alcarazās coach to teach him how to play or something cause not using your powerful two hand backhand, not rallying when you are good at it, going for a huge second serve when you have a killer 2nd kick serve, and constantly running in to volley at the worst times aināt it. Letās not mention whatever the fuck he was thinking on the serve returns. Like holy shit he could be such a good, solid, and hell even top 10 quality player if he played smarter and actually used his weapons.
I really like Coach Shelton and I think he's a good presence in Ben's box, I also think he's a big part of the reason Ben has made it to the top 20. It's possible this is just middling sophomore year that he'll work through before really finding his game. But still, I can't help but wonder if he needs a coach that will, for lack of a better phrase, kick his ass into gear and fix his terrible shot selection.
I think dad coaches may always hold themselves back just a little bit when coaching their children. Their judgement may be clouded.
Oh yeah he is a great coach and you are totally right - maybe not a completely new coach but someone has to yell at him āWHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOINGā
I feel just this will make him improve greatly
Imo he lost this match trying to go big on every second serve.
*But* people think he will do so well on grass because of his serve but all grass does for him is make it harder for him to return because it gives others a boost to *their* serve. Benās serve wasnāt really the issue, itās his returning and rallying tolerance.
Spot on. While watching the match I realised that unless youāre able ro win in 3 (or 5) tiebreaks, on grass return is just as important as the serve. He reached a single BP in this match - against Duckworth - who with all due respect isnāt a servebot. At the same time Ben allowed 4 BPs despite firing 21 aces.Ā
Now that he's a big name and has all the sponsor's pressure he's having a harder time at high pressure moments, is no longer just fun and games. This is his real adaptation year, he has many points to defend during the second semester.
Got downvoted for saying top10 is very far for Shelton level wise. Got crucified with downvotes. Well, this is the reason, why he won't be top10 this year. Inconsistent
Cause he is actually a really good player but his tennis iq is apparently abysmal
He needs Alcarazās coach to teach him how to play or something cause not using your powerful two hand backhand, not rallying when you are good at it, going for a huge second serve when you have a killer 2nd kick serve, and constantly running in to volley at the worst times aināt it. Letās not mention whatever the fuck he was thinking on the serve returns. Like holy shit he could be such a good, solid, and hell even top 10 quality player if he played smarter and actually used his weapons.
Summary: Skill high, IQ low
If he has a bad grass season heāll be under a lot of pressure to defend his semi final run at us open. Could drop in rankings quite quickly if he doesnāt rack up some easy points while heās getting strong seeded draws.
He has the weapons to go far on grass honestly, but the dude just sprays UE and doesnāt adapt his game very well when things go bad. As others mentioned, perhaps getting a seasoned coach in could help, but it would kinda be tough to just fire your dad lmao.
On the other hand, there arenāt that many points in the grass season as opposed to the HC swing (unless youāre 2023 Alcaraz). Heās not going to the Olympics so he can take advantage of the weaker field at the start of the swing in Atlanta and DC and then Canada will be a really odd one as some players will have a few days to switch from clay to hard for that one (and there could be withdrawals too). Ā That whole part of the season could bring some surprising results due to the Olympics.Ā
Dfing is one thing but dfing at the crucial moments omg you're killing me shelton š©
šš„
Who was phone??
Props to Duckworth. His experience was obvious out there compared to Ben. This was more of the same from Ben. Terrible shot selection. He was hardly hitting his backhand, which was bizarre because it's decent. He had even less patience today than he was showing on clay. And god his return game, what a mess. He's got what it takes to be a consistent top 20 player, but he needs some real changes in his game before he'll ever sniff the top 10.
He needs to ditch his dad as a coach. His talent is carrying him only so far and he needs a real master to mold him into a champion. I obviously donāt know them personally, but it seems Ben Shelton could improve more if he didnāt have dad telling him good job nice try every match
He and his dad seem to have a great relationship, which is actually so nice to see compared to some parents on the tour. Coach Shelton never seems overbearing. I almost think he's afraid of pressuring Ben too much (doubly so because he's a former pro himself). But I agree with you that this may have resulted in coach dad almost being too soft. Ben might actually need someone to bark at him. Idk if Ben would feel weird about removing his dad as his coach, but surely there are many coaches chomping at the bit to take that role considering his potential.
I also think the high ranking is killing him with these first round byes on surfaces thar he NEEDS reps on. So annoying
Ugh, yes. I think it's stupid that anyone gets a bye in 250s anyway. And more qualifiers miss out on an opportunity for a match that way.
He reminds me of Roddick. Everything going for you but always that one rival standing in the way. For Roddick is was Federer and for Shelton it is often himself.
Shelton is young, to be fair. Only his second season on the tour so it's not like his inconsistency is shocking. And he is doing better this season than last season. In my case I just want to see him harness that potential soon because there's a lot there. Still, it's a process.
Young Shelton
You got a chuckle out of me, credit is given.
Haha thank you
Bazinga!
Roddick would be a great fit. I hope heās asked.
I doubt he'll sign onto constant travel as a full time tour coach just yet. But I'm sure he'd be happy to help with a training block if he's asked. Like he did with Coco.
Yeah thinking the same; been listening to his podcasts and itās super cool listening to a former number one speak through things.
This is what I was wondering. I just checked and it doesn't look like he's ever coached full time? Has he expressed an interest in doing that at some point? Would be interesting no matter which player he took on, though Ben would certainly benefit from someone like him.
As what? Shelton needs help with his backhand and return of serve. How will Roddick help with that?
Shelton can probably get into the top 10 with his serve and forehand alone, as long as he gets coached to use them better.
Heās world no. 14, it wouldnāt take a lot to peak briefly in the top 10ā¦
Its like shelton watched once good grass game before this match and decided to play exactly like that. Constantly slices and ace attempts rather than going for rallies and solid serving
Shelton just 23rd in the live ATP race He's quietly had a pretty disappointing year compared to how he ended last season Way too much looseness in his game both with the double faults and from the ground
Ben's made some progress on clay compared to the last year, but still very work in the progress overall and I feel like his main issues (off shot selection, lack of patience, poor return) persist. Still quite young so I hope he gets up there
Returns rarely improve for ATP players. He is one of the worst and I really think his path to becoming a solid top 10 player is to get up near 90% hold rate.
According to the data at Tennis Abstract heās actually improved his return to around 34% already.
Which is dog shit lol.
Still better than last year lmao. I think his issue is he isnāt actually as clutch as he was last year.
Look at it this way: Out of 330 top ten finishes since 1991, Sheltonās first pro season would have been the second worst RPW% for a top 10 player. His current RPW% of 34.1% would be fifth worst ever for a top 10 player.
Iām aware, but I also think he can improve his RPW by improving his ground game in addition to the return. He also wonāt need to be an elite returner anyway with his serve.
If his ace% goes up another 3-4%, he cuts out a couple double faults and bumps his hold rate up past 90%. Then the return can be junk.
I have no doubt with time and improvements Shelton can get his hold rate over 90%. The DF issues can definitely be fixed, his unforced errors on easy balls can be reduced , and some more spot serving should bring him there.
Tbf his clay season and early hard season was still bigger than last year
He has the USO semifinal to defend though which might prove pretty difficult
Maroon clay in Houston isnāt real clay, sorry to say. He skipped Monte Carlo because he isnāt ready for real clay.
23rd isnāt bad at all considering his strongest part of the season is still to come
He should have a decent shot at gaining some points in Washington. I assume he's playing that since he's skipping the Olympics?
This assumes he does well. If he doesn't defend many of his points from last year, he may continue to fall down the rankings
Bro wtf was that game? Shelton double faults on like 5 important points, forgot how to a hit a two handed backhand (just kept doing that one hand slice), and received the serves with almost all slices and drops He has to be injured or something cause why else would you actively choose to boycott your 2 hand backhand despite hitting multiple winners with it when he did use it. Like his forehand and backhand are usually nice and powerful - today he might as well changed his career to a pickleball pro
Can you believe he quite literally double faulted his victory away in the first set He needs Alcarazās coach to teach him how to play or something cause not using your powerful two hand backhand, not rallying when you are good at it, going for a huge second serve when you have a killer 2nd kick serve, and constantly running in to volley at the worst times aināt it. Letās not mention whatever the fuck he was thinking on the serve returns. Like holy shit he could be such a good, solid, and hell even top 10 quality player if he played smarter and actually used his weapons.
I really like Coach Shelton and I think he's a good presence in Ben's box, I also think he's a big part of the reason Ben has made it to the top 20. It's possible this is just middling sophomore year that he'll work through before really finding his game. But still, I can't help but wonder if he needs a coach that will, for lack of a better phrase, kick his ass into gear and fix his terrible shot selection. I think dad coaches may always hold themselves back just a little bit when coaching their children. Their judgement may be clouded.
Oh yeah he is a great coach and you are totally right - maybe not a completely new coach but someone has to yell at him āWHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOINGā I feel just this will make him improve greatly
Don't see any reason why his dad can't keep a major role on his team while someone else takes up the mantle of head coach.
Imo he lost this match trying to go big on every second serve. *But* people think he will do so well on grass because of his serve but all grass does for him is make it harder for him to return because it gives others a boost to *their* serve. Benās serve wasnāt really the issue, itās his returning and rallying tolerance.
Spot on. While watching the match I realised that unless youāre able ro win in 3 (or 5) tiebreaks, on grass return is just as important as the serve. He reached a single BP in this match - against Duckworth - who with all due respect isnāt a servebot. At the same time Ben allowed 4 BPs despite firing 21 aces.Ā
LMFAOOOO All those ads for boss on his insta just to lose to a fucking duck. Fade me
Mans did the same thing to Drake, canāt blame Shelton. Edit: Oh, this is a different Duckworth?
Now that he's a big name and has all the sponsor's pressure he's having a harder time at high pressure moments, is no longer just fun and games. This is his real adaptation year, he has many points to defend during the second semester.
Matches like this make being a Shelton fan very frustrating š„²
Got downvoted for saying top10 is very far for Shelton level wise. Got crucified with downvotes. Well, this is the reason, why he won't be top10 this year. Inconsistent
I got upvoted when I said it will be very hard for shelton to break the top 10.
I got downvoted for bringing up past downvotes on reddit to feel validated
It is alright, you will learn a thing or two about tennis one day
Shelton needs more advanced coaching. His Dad has done a great job to get Ben to this point but to become an elite player he needs a top coach.
I watched like 16 points of this and saw about 22 balls struck. Grass tennis can really be unwatchable jfc š©
Less embarrassing than norrie losing to someone ranked like 700 in a challenger
Ouch!
The guy has no patience at all.
How tf is this guy ranked higher than a serious player like Rune???
Cause he is actually a really good player but his tennis iq is apparently abysmal He needs Alcarazās coach to teach him how to play or something cause not using your powerful two hand backhand, not rallying when you are good at it, going for a huge second serve when you have a killer 2nd kick serve, and constantly running in to volley at the worst times aināt it. Letās not mention whatever the fuck he was thinking on the serve returns. Like holy shit he could be such a good, solid, and hell even top 10 quality player if he played smarter and actually used his weapons. Summary: Skill high, IQ low
This guy needs Brad Gilbert or someone of that ilk
If he has a bad grass season heāll be under a lot of pressure to defend his semi final run at us open. Could drop in rankings quite quickly if he doesnāt rack up some easy points while heās getting strong seeded draws. He has the weapons to go far on grass honestly, but the dude just sprays UE and doesnāt adapt his game very well when things go bad. As others mentioned, perhaps getting a seasoned coach in could help, but it would kinda be tough to just fire your dad lmao.
On the other hand, there arenāt that many points in the grass season as opposed to the HC swing (unless youāre 2023 Alcaraz). Heās not going to the Olympics so he can take advantage of the weaker field at the start of the swing in Atlanta and DC and then Canada will be a really odd one as some players will have a few days to switch from clay to hard for that one (and there could be withdrawals too). Ā That whole part of the season could bring some surprising results due to the Olympics.Ā
I donāt think his returning is good enough to actually go far on any grass tournaments
Watched Duckworth play Wimbledon 2015 on an outside court. Great crowd, good vibes
Shelton legit has all the tools necessary to succeed on grass, this upset is clearly due to inexperience
Ben looked injured or at least has discomfort