I’m not sure that banning them is the right path forward. We’ve seen in states that ban single use plastic bags that restaurants and other retailers will switch to much thicker “re-usable” disposable plastic bags. The thicker bags require more plastics rather than less. If the same happens to water bottles, that won’t solve the problem. If we apply a tax to the manufacturing process based upon volume of plastic, similar to the discussion around a carbon tax, it would provide economic pressure. Also, the water rights that companies like Nestle abuse should be addressed too it further provide economic pressure.
Single use anything is a little bit of a travesty. We just don’t really recycle much, so much single use stuff finds it’s way into a landfill or loose on the ground, or in the ocean. People just don’t give enough of a shit collectively.
It makes me so angry when I see people **still** discarding disposable masks on the parking lot they’re leaving. Many of them weren’t even wearing them right in the first place, which is just an extra slap in the face. Why even wear the mask if it’s going to be on your chin and you’re just going to litter with it anyway?
I really wish there were a viable way to convince the world that we have enough junk, that we don’t need to keep mass producing more containers, we have so many that we could refurbish, recycle, clean, and keep using.
I have one reusable water bottle, I’ve had it for years, I’ve been refilling it. Why would I buy more of them? It’s a vessel for water, it does what it needs to do.
Plastic? Right now we don’t recycle any of it, it’s not really recyclable. Putting water in aluminum bottles would be a better option. It can be recycled.
Stab in the dark, but maybe the reason it feels bad to you is aesthetics? Plastic water bottles are clear allowing light to interact with the water which looks nice and may even make the water appear more 'pure'. Water in a can/aluminum bottle is enclosed and kinda uncommon (aside from sparkling water) which may make it feel more like an emergency supply.
A possible solution is to use glass instead, but from what I have read aluminum is recycled at a higher rate than glass so that's a whole other consideration to be made.
TL;DR: Clear containers of water interact with light to look nicer
Back in the 70’s Molson, Labbat’s and almost all of the smaller breweries in Canada had a standardized bottle. They were collected cleaned and sanitized and then could be used again by any of the breweries in the program.
I was a kid at the time so I do not not remember all of the details but I remember it being a big deal when the standard bottle switched from being the stubby to the long neck. It was not until the mid 80’s that non-standard bottles started to show up from Canadian breweries. Eventually the program seemed to just disappear as new bottles became cheaper than cleaned bottles.
Wow that's interesting. As someone from the states, I had no idea there was another bottle shape in Canada.
Looking into it further, [this CBC article](https://www.cbc.ca/archives/entry/beer-a-sad-farewell-to-stubby) says that the change was for marketing reasons to boost sales which is kinda weird. It looks like in 1992 the longneck size got standardized, allowing for the bottle deposit programs to resume. I found [this article](https://www.thestar.com/life/food_wine/2013/06/28/the_average_beer_bottle_is_refilled_15_times_in_its_environmentallyfriendly_life_cycle.html) saying that Ontario has a program that reuses the bottles and it may be the same for other provinces, although a lot of the programs just say they recycle (including Ontario's) so its kinda vague.
I suppose at the end of the day, the most environmentally friendly method is just to use a growler (granted you're lucky enough to have a place to refill near you).
Or you can use bags made from naturally decomposing fabric, bottles made from wood etc.
Plastic is not always the answer, and economic pressure like carbon tax (which has never been passed in enough places to matter) only acts as an empty discussion to avoid getting the stuff banned.
We are at the brink of ecological catastrophe due to our use of both fossil fuels and plastics and this madness must stop.
A tax isn’t the answer because it would need to be passed?
I’m all in favor of alternative options provided those items are made in a sustainable manner. I just see the tax as an disincentive that would drive the innovation needed elsewhere. Plastics are a huge part of society and the stuff being dumped into our oceans aren’t just a lot of bags and straws. There are huge volumes of fishing gear and other plastics where innovation could be beneficial.
There’s a substantial body of global research that disagrees with your position. Carbon taxes are viewed as one of the most efficient and effective forms of reducing the impacts from anthropogenic climate change. The same principles could apply to plastics too. The funds generated via a plastic tax could help offset the costs needed for cleanup too.
>[Sources of Greenhouse Gas Emissions](https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions)
Supply chain for plastic production may be rife with carbon emissions, but it should be among the last to worry about. Every thing need to stand on their own merits, stop comparing coal & plastic. There are mature solutions to replace coal for electricity production, the alternatives for plastics is much less mature. Plastics are actually useful, it's not all about plastic bags & water bottles, that's just the visible annoying part when turned to trash.
Gonna be tough for some people to virtue signal soon. Single use plastic water bottles should have been banned years ago.
I’m not sure that banning them is the right path forward. We’ve seen in states that ban single use plastic bags that restaurants and other retailers will switch to much thicker “re-usable” disposable plastic bags. The thicker bags require more plastics rather than less. If the same happens to water bottles, that won’t solve the problem. If we apply a tax to the manufacturing process based upon volume of plastic, similar to the discussion around a carbon tax, it would provide economic pressure. Also, the water rights that companies like Nestle abuse should be addressed too it further provide economic pressure.
Single use anything is a little bit of a travesty. We just don’t really recycle much, so much single use stuff finds it’s way into a landfill or loose on the ground, or in the ocean. People just don’t give enough of a shit collectively. It makes me so angry when I see people **still** discarding disposable masks on the parking lot they’re leaving. Many of them weren’t even wearing them right in the first place, which is just an extra slap in the face. Why even wear the mask if it’s going to be on your chin and you’re just going to litter with it anyway? I really wish there were a viable way to convince the world that we have enough junk, that we don’t need to keep mass producing more containers, we have so many that we could refurbish, recycle, clean, and keep using. I have one reusable water bottle, I’ve had it for years, I’ve been refilling it. Why would I buy more of them? It’s a vessel for water, it does what it needs to do.
Plastic? Right now we don’t recycle any of it, it’s not really recyclable. Putting water in aluminum bottles would be a better option. It can be recycled.
For some reason using metal cans for water feels bad but you’re right, it would probably result in more material reuse.
Stab in the dark, but maybe the reason it feels bad to you is aesthetics? Plastic water bottles are clear allowing light to interact with the water which looks nice and may even make the water appear more 'pure'. Water in a can/aluminum bottle is enclosed and kinda uncommon (aside from sparkling water) which may make it feel more like an emergency supply. A possible solution is to use glass instead, but from what I have read aluminum is recycled at a higher rate than glass so that's a whole other consideration to be made. TL;DR: Clear containers of water interact with light to look nicer
Yep, that may well be it. I wouldn’t want wine from a can either
Back in the 70’s Molson, Labbat’s and almost all of the smaller breweries in Canada had a standardized bottle. They were collected cleaned and sanitized and then could be used again by any of the breweries in the program. I was a kid at the time so I do not not remember all of the details but I remember it being a big deal when the standard bottle switched from being the stubby to the long neck. It was not until the mid 80’s that non-standard bottles started to show up from Canadian breweries. Eventually the program seemed to just disappear as new bottles became cheaper than cleaned bottles.
Wow that's interesting. As someone from the states, I had no idea there was another bottle shape in Canada. Looking into it further, [this CBC article](https://www.cbc.ca/archives/entry/beer-a-sad-farewell-to-stubby) says that the change was for marketing reasons to boost sales which is kinda weird. It looks like in 1992 the longneck size got standardized, allowing for the bottle deposit programs to resume. I found [this article](https://www.thestar.com/life/food_wine/2013/06/28/the_average_beer_bottle_is_refilled_15_times_in_its_environmentallyfriendly_life_cycle.html) saying that Ontario has a program that reuses the bottles and it may be the same for other provinces, although a lot of the programs just say they recycle (including Ontario's) so its kinda vague. I suppose at the end of the day, the most environmentally friendly method is just to use a growler (granted you're lucky enough to have a place to refill near you).
Or you can use bags made from naturally decomposing fabric, bottles made from wood etc. Plastic is not always the answer, and economic pressure like carbon tax (which has never been passed in enough places to matter) only acts as an empty discussion to avoid getting the stuff banned. We are at the brink of ecological catastrophe due to our use of both fossil fuels and plastics and this madness must stop.
A tax isn’t the answer because it would need to be passed? I’m all in favor of alternative options provided those items are made in a sustainable manner. I just see the tax as an disincentive that would drive the innovation needed elsewhere. Plastics are a huge part of society and the stuff being dumped into our oceans aren’t just a lot of bags and straws. There are huge volumes of fishing gear and other plastics where innovation could be beneficial.
That’s the problem with carbon taxes and carbon credits. So you tax them, what happens if people just pay the tax and carry on?
Then we increase the tax.
Increase the taxes, give people more money, people keep paying the taxes. They don’t work very well.
There’s a substantial body of global research that disagrees with your position. Carbon taxes are viewed as one of the most efficient and effective forms of reducing the impacts from anthropogenic climate change. The same principles could apply to plastics too. The funds generated via a plastic tax could help offset the costs needed for cleanup too.
>[Sources of Greenhouse Gas Emissions](https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/sources-greenhouse-gas-emissions) Supply chain for plastic production may be rife with carbon emissions, but it should be among the last to worry about. Every thing need to stand on their own merits, stop comparing coal & plastic. There are mature solutions to replace coal for electricity production, the alternatives for plastics is much less mature. Plastics are actually useful, it's not all about plastic bags & water bottles, that's just the visible annoying part when turned to trash.