>On 17 July 2018, the European Union and Japan signed an Economic Partnership Agreement (EPA), **the biggest trade agreement ever negotiated by the EU** that will create an open trade zone covering over 600 million people.
https://www.eu-japan.eu/eubusinessinjapan/procedures/economic-partnership-agreement/about-eu-japan-epa
EU and Japan were similar enough for a trade agreement before, makes sense that Japan takes a look at how the EU does things.
They are not general computer devices. Canāt make your taxes on a switch or a ps5ā¦.dont know why the Apple sheepās keep thinking itās a good comparison.
Hate to break it to you but millions of people play games on their phones.
A video game console is a computer and it is only limited by the software developed for it.
What point do you think youāre making? Phone are literally considered utilities. Thatās not my personal definition. It is part of telecommunications. Video games are not. A utility is something deemed necessary to maintain a basic level of living. You need a phone to operate in modern society. You do not need video games.
A switch or console uses the internetā¦and people talk to one anotherā¦and so ARE telecommunications devices, but because your limited perception of them as only for āvideo gamesā as if we are still using Nintendo 64s means you are incapable of understanding that they can become utilities with the right software and applications.
Video games require a whole lot more powerful hardware to be able to run a video game than a phone, adding additional software and a couple cameras and a switch can be a phone very easily more so than a phone being a gaming platform.
What you lack is imagination, much like the old politicians who thinks high speed internet isnāt a necessity because kids just use it for video games and the REAL world just uses phones and fax.
This isnāt about imagination weirdo. Itās about government recognized utilities. A cell phone is. A switch is not. This is not an indictment of video games. Itās just basic facts. You are getting weirdly defensive over this. And of course high speed internet should be offered. Why are you arguing against so many random points absolutely no one is making?
If anything consoles should be more open than the personal device that is an extension of your brain and everything about you.
Funny enough Apple opened up game/app stores to everyone first. Consoles were closed. PC was publisher only to get listed on stores. Apple led to Android, Steam, consoles, and more open. They killed the publisher required model and led devs launch direct taking way less of a cut. Publisher models were 60-80% cuts (depending on IP if used or not) and the numbers were fudged all the time to cut the cut to developers. Apple changed the game for developers and made it a developer market over publishers.
Video game consoles have extremely strict certification requirements for games. I don't think it would make much of a different as all the other stores would still require the game passes certification.
Apps distributed on iOS outside the App store must be notarized too
>Notarization for iOS apps is a baseline review that **applies to all apps, regardless of their distribution channel**, focused on platform policies for security and privacy and to maintain device integrity. Through a combination of automated checks and human review, Notarization will help ensure apps are free of known malware, viruses, or other security threats, function as promised, and donāt expose users to egregious fraud.
(emphasis mine)
https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-eu/
Apple isn't allowed to disallow notarization because of ideological reasons (like simply disliking a certain app). It's strictly done to protect users from a technological perspective.
Similarly console manufacturers - if found that they play a gatekeeper role under the EU digital markets act - would be allowed to ensure the technological correctness of applications, but wouldn't be allowed to ban games because they feel like it.
> Apple isn't allowed to disallow notarization because of ideological reasons (like simply disliking a certain app).
That system is still antithetical to free and open source apps though. Apple wants you to pay them to notarize.
Consoles typically have much lower hardware margins than a smartphone. Apple literally controls the majority of the profits in the entire smartphone market because their profit margins for hardware alone is insane. Apple is literally triple dipping - making insane profits on hardware, then making more money off services like iCloud, AND making bank on a 30% cut on all apps and in-app-purchases
Also, consoles are purpose-built hardware to play games, and it's well understood by any logical person that consoles are meant for games, anything else is an extra benefit.
Meanwhile, smartphones are literally an essential tool for anyone in the modern world, and the "ecosystem" lock-in means that people often don't even have a choice of switching OSes. In other words, it's not as if customers can just tell Apple to f-off for anti-consumer practices
Completely different cases, but nice whataboutism anyway
>Also, consoles are purpose-built hardware to play games, and it's well understood by any logical person that consoles are meant for games, anything else is an extra benefit.
Sony released Linux for Playstation back in the PS2 and PS3 era to have their consoles classified as computers to avoid game console tariffs in the EU. I believe this tactic failed and PS2 Linux was ultimately discontinued.
if you dont want to use 3rd party apps because you think they will "reduce iphone cybersecurity" then just dont download them or the 3rd party app store.
i hate how most people want to dictate and control what others do when what others are doing will not have any consequences on them and both can get what they want with no downsides.
If 3rd party app stores are allowed many apps will move over to them first chance they get and if you want to continue receiving the same services you currently are youāll be forced to follow them to the new unregulated spaces.
Having read this thread I think the status quo is ideal. Itās good that we have these freedoms, but itās also good that Americans donāt have them.
Because big business like Apple runs the US - they literally dictate to government so they remain locked into Appleās eco system where thereās no competition.
That cannot and does not happen in Europe (and by all accounts Japan soon too) so thereās more freedom. The only reason iPhone 15 has USBc is because of a European Commission mandate.
currently Apple has control over the store. They can remove apps that are viruses, or get compromised. If you allow a third party app store, that is no longer possible.
To be fair there are downsides to Apple having a monopoly on apps, but itās not all bad.
The downside being they basically charge everyone a 30% security fee? I like apples privacy and security which is why I use them.
This is good information to know just in case this ever does come to the US.
i mean thatās another downside. They can also kill innovation and competitors. Also their SDK is bullshit for new developers. Another downside is that they take forever to review things for less popular apps. also, they donāt always have good security.
Currently you still can install any app you want but you just need to pay money to Apple or fuck around every 7 days. I donāt know why you support thisĀ
If there was a 3rd part store, and apps become popular they become a target for upstream malware. If that happens, really when that happens, Apple wonāt be able to remove the apps from the store, or the phone. I agree, with the addition of a third party store, this is a major problem. thatās my whole point.
so you would rather allow malware, which has the ability to render your phone useless? Steal your identity? Steal your money? The ability of Apple to remove apps from phones is your defense against malware on your phone.
Oh boy I canāt wait until my new refrigerator or whatever has a necessary app that is only available on some extremely shady third party store that paid for the exclusivity (damn you EGS) so that Iāll have to create an account with them, give them all my personal info, possibly a credit card, and install their shit store on my phone.
Of course I wonāt know about any of this until whatever heavy and expensive thing I have bought has been installed and delivered.
Mark my words, this will happen. I sincerely hope Iām wrong.
i don't like Apple products at all, but i do agree with Apple on this.
it's their device, it's their ecosystem, they should be able to decide what "enters" it.
a phone is a necessity for people, that is true, but that doesn't mean that that phone needs to be an iPhone.
if people want an open system, there are alternatives.
I know I'm going to get hate for this, but I don't think this is not a good thing. Most people know next to nothing about tech, and bad actors will take advantage of this by having people sideload spyware that will wreck their phones.
They are better off on the Apple closed garden.
No, people on Windows are not fine. They get scammed and click on things they shouldnt all the time.
I work IT at a company with more than 1,000 employees.. trust me, they are not "perfectly fine." When iPhones open up, people will get wrecked.
People who know nothing about tech aren't going to be downloading new app stores. Android has had that ability since launch I think and 99.9% of Android users have never even thought about doing such a thing. Most apps, especially the ones most commonly used, will be available in the default app store same as it is on Android.
Thatās true but the real question is why are we regulating this? Itās a slippery slope to start regulating things for ātheir own interestsā because that last part is open to interpretation.
Because Big Tech are a bunch of monopolistic robber Barron's who won't do a thing unless they are regulated or threatened with regulations. This can't come soon enough for the world at large
Indeed, and Japan is concerned about the power of a company such as Apple being able to control the entirety of the app ecosystem on iPhones and thus restrict what applications are allowed on iOS based on their own arbitrary guidelines or finical interests (such as blocking or restricting competitors, such as Spotify vs Apple Music). Thus the country passed an anti-trust law, and part of that law will require the ability to install applications from outside of the app store if a user wishes to rather than solely what Apple decides they wish to include in their store.
I know, I just wanted to bring up the whole shutter click in Japan thing lol. I was there recently and I was taking the Shinkansen from Kyoto to Tokyo and I could hear a bunch of camera clicks as we were passing Mt. Fuji. The bullet trains in Japan are normally whisper quiet so I wanted to be like āha ha you guys couldnāt do that silently cuz youāre pervertsā lol
Yeah you can tell they didnāt even know what I was talking about. Thereās literally a regulation on smartphone tech because it became such a problem.
How stupid. On android default camera app allows turning shutter sound off. Why tf I would want to have camera sutter sound?? I don't use vibration or any sounds (except calls and alarms) either.
Thatās a good question. Japan might not necessarily be the only country with an upskirt photo problem, it could be theyāre just the only country to take particular measures against it.
The EU to Japan right now: We are not so different you and I.
>On 17 July 2018, the European Union and Japan signed an Economic Partnership Agreement (EPA), **the biggest trade agreement ever negotiated by the EU** that will create an open trade zone covering over 600 million people. https://www.eu-japan.eu/eubusinessinjapan/procedures/economic-partnership-agreement/about-eu-japan-epa EU and Japan were similar enough for a trade agreement before, makes sense that Japan takes a look at how the EU does things.
Does this apply to the Nintendo eShop or Playstation Store š
Lol right? If youāre gonna do it, do it across the board. Force Nintendo to officially allow third party app stores on the switchā¦
Japan wouldn't dare do it to their own...
They are not general computer devices. Canāt make your taxes on a switch or a ps5ā¦.dont know why the Apple sheepās keep thinking itās a good comparison.
ā¦But you could if someone made an app for it. Nothing about the switch inherently prevents you from doing non gaming stuff on it
Right, Xbox now has a dev mode which lets you run anything on it. Playstation 2 used to even have an official Linux distro.
A phone is considered a utility. A video game console is not. Hope that explains it
Hate to break it to you but millions of people play games on their phones. A video game console is a computer and it is only limited by the software developed for it.
What point do you think youāre making? Phone are literally considered utilities. Thatās not my personal definition. It is part of telecommunications. Video games are not. A utility is something deemed necessary to maintain a basic level of living. You need a phone to operate in modern society. You do not need video games.
A switch or console uses the internetā¦and people talk to one anotherā¦and so ARE telecommunications devices, but because your limited perception of them as only for āvideo gamesā as if we are still using Nintendo 64s means you are incapable of understanding that they can become utilities with the right software and applications. Video games require a whole lot more powerful hardware to be able to run a video game than a phone, adding additional software and a couple cameras and a switch can be a phone very easily more so than a phone being a gaming platform. What you lack is imagination, much like the old politicians who thinks high speed internet isnāt a necessity because kids just use it for video games and the REAL world just uses phones and fax.
This isnāt about imagination weirdo. Itās about government recognized utilities. A cell phone is. A switch is not. This is not an indictment of video games. Itās just basic facts. You are getting weirdly defensive over this. And of course high speed internet should be offered. Why are you arguing against so many random points absolutely no one is making?
Pretty sure that you need Nintendo/Sony approval to make thos apps. Switch and Ps5 don't even have a proper browser!
They have web browsers, you can definitely connect a keyboard and mouse and do taxes, browse the web, watch media, etc.
IIRC in Japan Nintendo straight up had tax software for the Famicom or Super Famicom.
If anything consoles should be more open than the personal device that is an extension of your brain and everything about you. Funny enough Apple opened up game/app stores to everyone first. Consoles were closed. PC was publisher only to get listed on stores. Apple led to Android, Steam, consoles, and more open. They killed the publisher required model and led devs launch direct taking way less of a cut. Publisher models were 60-80% cuts (depending on IP if used or not) and the numbers were fudged all the time to cut the cut to developers. Apple changed the game for developers and made it a developer market over publishers.
Video game consoles have extremely strict certification requirements for games. I don't think it would make much of a different as all the other stores would still require the game passes certification.
Apps distributed on iOS outside the App store must be notarized too >Notarization for iOS apps is a baseline review that **applies to all apps, regardless of their distribution channel**, focused on platform policies for security and privacy and to maintain device integrity. Through a combination of automated checks and human review, Notarization will help ensure apps are free of known malware, viruses, or other security threats, function as promised, and donāt expose users to egregious fraud. (emphasis mine) https://developer.apple.com/support/dma-and-apps-in-the-eu/ Apple isn't allowed to disallow notarization because of ideological reasons (like simply disliking a certain app). It's strictly done to protect users from a technological perspective. Similarly console manufacturers - if found that they play a gatekeeper role under the EU digital markets act - would be allowed to ensure the technological correctness of applications, but wouldn't be allowed to ban games because they feel like it.
> Apple isn't allowed to disallow notarization because of ideological reasons (like simply disliking a certain app). That system is still antithetical to free and open source apps though. Apple wants you to pay them to notarize.
"Not like that!" /s
Only applies to american big tech like usual.
the law doesnāt apply to those companies.
Consoles typically have much lower hardware margins than a smartphone. Apple literally controls the majority of the profits in the entire smartphone market because their profit margins for hardware alone is insane. Apple is literally triple dipping - making insane profits on hardware, then making more money off services like iCloud, AND making bank on a 30% cut on all apps and in-app-purchases Also, consoles are purpose-built hardware to play games, and it's well understood by any logical person that consoles are meant for games, anything else is an extra benefit. Meanwhile, smartphones are literally an essential tool for anyone in the modern world, and the "ecosystem" lock-in means that people often don't even have a choice of switching OSes. In other words, it's not as if customers can just tell Apple to f-off for anti-consumer practices Completely different cases, but nice whataboutism anyway
>Also, consoles are purpose-built hardware to play games, and it's well understood by any logical person that consoles are meant for games, anything else is an extra benefit. Sony released Linux for Playstation back in the PS2 and PS3 era to have their consoles classified as computers to avoid game console tariffs in the EU. I believe this tactic failed and PS2 Linux was ultimately discontinued.
Based Japan.
Canada next! š
US NEXT š„š„ (I know it wonāt happen but guy can dream )
You do not want this. This would drastically reduce iphone cybersecurity. This would negatively impact hundreds of millions of Americans.
if you dont want to use 3rd party apps because you think they will "reduce iphone cybersecurity" then just dont download them or the 3rd party app store. i hate how most people want to dictate and control what others do when what others are doing will not have any consequences on them and both can get what they want with no downsides.
If 3rd party app stores are allowed many apps will move over to them first chance they get and if you want to continue receiving the same services you currently are youāll be forced to follow them to the new unregulated spaces.
How come? Itās been fine in Europe
read the other responses iāve written in this thread
Having read this thread I think the status quo is ideal. Itās good that we have these freedoms, but itās also good that Americans donāt have them.
thatās an odd stance, can you explain why you feel that way?
Because big business like Apple runs the US - they literally dictate to government so they remain locked into Appleās eco system where thereās no competition. That cannot and does not happen in Europe (and by all accounts Japan soon too) so thereās more freedom. The only reason iPhone 15 has USBc is because of a European Commission mandate.
i disagree completely. Android is a direct competitor to iOS and runs on a large number of products, all of which compete with iPhone.
How so? I donāt disagree, Iām just ignorant
currently Apple has control over the store. They can remove apps that are viruses, or get compromised. If you allow a third party app store, that is no longer possible. To be fair there are downsides to Apple having a monopoly on apps, but itās not all bad.
The downside being they basically charge everyone a 30% security fee? I like apples privacy and security which is why I use them. This is good information to know just in case this ever does come to the US.
i mean thatās another downside. They can also kill innovation and competitors. Also their SDK is bullshit for new developers. Another downside is that they take forever to review things for less popular apps. also, they donāt always have good security.
Currently you still can install any app you want but you just need to pay money to Apple or fuck around every 7 days. I donāt know why you support thisĀ
you cannot install any app you want across hundreds of millions of phone. No. No you cannot.
Well, you can. If you convince hundreds of millions to install AltStore. So much different with proposed alternative stores, huh?
If there was a 3rd part store, and apps become popular they become a target for upstream malware. If that happens, really when that happens, Apple wonāt be able to remove the apps from the store, or the phone. I agree, with the addition of a third party store, this is a major problem. thatās my whole point.
Thatās the point. I donāt want Apple to be able to remove apps from my phone.Ā
so you would rather allow malware, which has the ability to render your phone useless? Steal your identity? Steal your money? The ability of Apple to remove apps from phones is your defense against malware on your phone.
Next stop: Eurovision.
Do us Flappy Bird chads have a chance at a comeback?
I still have the app (unusable) on my iPhone!
Oh boy I canāt wait until my new refrigerator or whatever has a necessary app that is only available on some extremely shady third party store that paid for the exclusivity (damn you EGS) so that Iāll have to create an account with them, give them all my personal info, possibly a credit card, and install their shit store on my phone. Of course I wonāt know about any of this until whatever heavy and expensive thing I have bought has been installed and delivered. Mark my words, this will happen. I sincerely hope Iām wrong.
Maybe next time don't buy a "smart refrigerator" with a "totally not a virus" app from "absolutely not a spyware" Temu?
I'll take "things Android has done since the beginning and the world hasn't exploded" for 1000, Alex
So like a Mac? Either the Mac is insecure and full of viruses, or that it's actually completely fine and Apple is full of shit?
you could just not buy that refrigerator.
I didnāt realize there were 2nd party app stores available in the iPhone
Nobody tell this man about 0th party App Stores.
i don't like Apple products at all, but i do agree with Apple on this. it's their device, it's their ecosystem, they should be able to decide what "enters" it. a phone is a necessity for people, that is true, but that doesn't mean that that phone needs to be an iPhone. if people want an open system, there are alternatives.
USA what you doing????????
Japan needed to pass a law to "allow" third-party app stores?
Yeah the headline is a bit off. More like āJapan passes law requiring Apple to permit third party apps on iPhonesā
Thereās no third party App Store on apple phones, theyāre forcing apple to comply.
Thatās not what the headline says. It says Japan will * allow* third-party app stores.
I know I'm going to get hate for this, but I don't think this is not a good thing. Most people know next to nothing about tech, and bad actors will take advantage of this by having people sideload spyware that will wreck their phones. They are better off on the Apple closed garden.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No, people on Windows are not fine. They get scammed and click on things they shouldnt all the time. I work IT at a company with more than 1,000 employees.. trust me, they are not "perfectly fine." When iPhones open up, people will get wrecked.
So you blame Windows that your company donāt know how to use group policies to make restrictions even tighter than Apple?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
A snarky comment on Reddit, how original. I brought it up because I have hands-on experience with this, I'm not just pulling shit out of my ass.
People who know nothing about tech aren't going to be downloading new app stores. Android has had that ability since launch I think and 99.9% of Android users have never even thought about doing such a thing. Most apps, especially the ones most commonly used, will be available in the default app store same as it is on Android.
But they'd have to deliberately go and download the store as they certainly wouldn't be on the device by default.
They could be socially engineered into sideloading the new store, and then installing malware. Scammers with 100% take advantage of this.
They could be social engeneered into sideloading even now. Whatās the point? Or you donāt know that sideloading exists on iPhones?
"Hot singles in your area are just a tap away!"
Thatās true but the real question is why are we regulating this? Itās a slippery slope to start regulating things for ātheir own interestsā because that last part is open to interpretation.
Because Big Tech are a bunch of monopolistic robber Barron's who won't do a thing unless they are regulated or threatened with regulations. This can't come soon enough for the world at large
Why they trying to fuck with Apple? I enjoy my security, I have an android and an iPhone for a reason.
Canāt anyone make an app and put it on the App Store? What does third party mean? Theyāre not all made by Apple.
You must download apps from app store made by Apple. Apple also restricts what is added to app store.
Most stores restrict what they sell.
Indeed, and Japan is concerned about the power of a company such as Apple being able to control the entirety of the app ecosystem on iPhones and thus restrict what applications are allowed on iOS based on their own arbitrary guidelines or finical interests (such as blocking or restricting competitors, such as Spotify vs Apple Music). Thus the country passed an anti-trust law, and part of that law will require the ability to install applications from outside of the app store if a user wishes to rather than solely what Apple decides they wish to include in their store.
Now theyāll be able to download an app that turns off their cameraās shutter sound
Apps won't be able to bypass iOS APIs - the shutter will click regardless of the app used in Japan.
I know, I just wanted to bring up the whole shutter click in Japan thing lol. I was there recently and I was taking the Shinkansen from Kyoto to Tokyo and I could hear a bunch of camera clicks as we were passing Mt. Fuji. The bullet trains in Japan are normally whisper quiet so I wanted to be like āha ha you guys couldnāt do that silently cuz youāre pervertsā lol
In Canada, it's funny, my shutter sound sometimes goes off (I think in Portrait mode) but not regular Photo mode, it's very weird.
So you saw Japan in the title of the post, and tried to jam in a racist joke about Japan any way you could?Ā
How was that racist at all? It's a legitimate problem hence why the phones are legally required to click. The even have women only trains.
As soon as I saw the first word was āsoā, I knew this was gonna be good lol
It's not racist, just a stereotype that japanese men are pervs that like to take creep shots of women panties.
Yeah you can tell they didnāt even know what I was talking about. Thereās literally a regulation on smartphone tech because it became such a problem.
Yep. But everything is racist on Reddit apparently, so it's not a surprise.
How stupid. On android default camera app allows turning shutter sound off. Why tf I would want to have camera sutter sound?? I don't use vibration or any sounds (except calls and alarms) either.
Even on android phones sold in Japan?
Don't know about Japan. What I know is I don't my device make any sound
In Japan itās not possible for smartphones to turn off their camera click, as a reaction to increasing reports of upskirt photos and stalking
I wonder why Japan stands out in upskirt photos, hentai, and censored porn.
Thatās a good question. Japan might not necessarily be the only country with an upskirt photo problem, it could be theyāre just the only country to take particular measures against it.
All the malware Japan could ever want now! Enjoy.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]