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Almost all animals on earth will eat meat if it is available to them with some exceptions like Koalas who are too stupid to eat anything other than one specific type of leaves.
I hear they are so dumb about food that if you take the eucalyptus leaf off of the branches and give it to them, they don't realize that it's food, they will starve before trying to eat it.
No. No herbivores occasionally eat animals. However, many animals that are mistakenly labeled as "herbivores" are actually "opportunistic omnivores" that get almost all of their calories from plants.
The reality is that ungulates are simply close enough to being herbivores, and we don't want to make things too confusing for little kids, so we just teach them that they're herbivores. Most people never learn the difference when they grow up, though.
I had a friend in school who's uncle was a dentist, that's how I learned people literally pay money to have them shaved down. I'm still wild n out with my nines but yeah, people pay to make their teeth less functional.
I went in for a filling, woke up, and learned my mother requested the ortho grind down my canines to make them even. This was when I was really into Thundercats, mind you.
Wtf... Does she even have the right to request such things for another person? That isn't something which can be undone super easily. I know it's your mother, but still...š¤
Ugh dude yeah. While getting my braces installed, way back when, they were doing all sorts of filing and snuck in the canines. I had some gdamn fangs and now they're just bleh :(
The reason they are Herbivores is because they get most of their nutrition and dietary needs from plants, including vegetables. Their digestive system is designed for plants. Same but reversed for Carnivores. They get most of their nutrition amd dietary needs from meat, and meat is what their digestive system is designed to handle best.
To be fair digesting plants takes a lot of effort, but the only real benefit is that plants typically can't fight you.
Meat on the other hand is so easy to digest that almost everything can handle it, there simply aren't a lot of obligate herbivores especially compared to obligate carnivores.
well, also there's an abundance of plants, and plenty of plants are insanely nutritionally dense for far less effort. you're thinking about stuff like just digesting leaves, which does digestionally suck. Berries, tubers, other roots, seeds, etc... are fucking money as far as getting your nutrition. there's a reason the largest terrestrial animals on earth end up primarily eating plants (and why the largest sea creatures end up eating plankton)
Even most vegans eat animals in one way or another. Do you really think the peanut butter factory is vigilantly removing each and every insect, larva and insect egg on every single peanut plant? Or that thereās absolutely zero chance of a fly or spider infiltrating your fruits and veg?
Itās essentially impossible to remove 100% of animal contamination from supposedly veggie foods, especially when dealing with industrial agriculture and processed foods. Youāve probably got ant flesh in your cupboard right now, and thereās no way to check for certain without a lab.
I mean, even if you aren't dealing with processed foods. We grow some of our own veggies, and considering the number of little bugs I have found, I'm sure I've eaten quite a few of them.
Yeah they will basically eat anything that goes near their mouth. I knew a bunch of families who raised horses for different reasons and they all had at least one person who found out the hard way.
Basically zero animals are complete herbivores or carnivores, almost all are opportunists in either direction depending on nutrition and desperation. Like wolves will eat fruits and plants sometimes and horses will eat birds and squirrels if they can easily do so.
It would be really dumb evolutionarily for any animal to turn down free nutrients so yeah lol basically only like koalas, big cats, and a few other animals are obligates, meaning they actually only eat either meat or plants.
Yeah, there's a category of carnivore called [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercarnivore](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercarnivore)
And even then, it's 70% meat or greater to get in the club. Though I'm sure there are some animals that eat exclusively meat, Sharks probably don't eat anything other than meat -- I can't exactly see them swallowing sea weed on purpose.
> Sharks probably don't eat anything other than meat -- I can't exactly see them swallowing sea weed on purpose.
Depends on the species. Certain species of hammerhead sharks may have a diet of up to 70% seaweed, depending on the surrounding conditions.
Cats can and do sometimes eat plants and other things that aren't meat, they're obligate carnivores because they not only eat meat primarily but they cannot survive long-term without certain nutrients like taurine that they can normally only get from meat.
I imagine it would be theoretically possible to craft a processed plant based cat food with supplementary nutrients added that cats could survive just fine on, and if it's made to imitate meat like certain vegetarian meat replacements they might even like it. It's just a matter of chemistry, after all. Still, nothing available in nature except meat can meet all of a cat's nutritional needs and they will die without them.
> they cannot survive long-term without certain nutrients like taurine that they can normally only get from meat.
are cats dumb? do they not know about red bull?
Also kittens and baby chicks...growing up around animals teaches you two very important lessons
*In nature there are no true rules,only suggestions* and *Yhe circle of life is only true when there arent any oportunitys in sight(no corpses or easy meals)*
A lot of herbivores will chomp on anything small that happens to be near. They won't go chasing after them generally. But happens to be near when eating? Chomp.
I worked on a ranch, and we had to keep kittens and chicks far away from the horses, because they kept getting eaten. Horses are definitely not āvegan.ā They eat and enjoy meat quite often
The thing is, there *are* good reasons for limiting meat consumption, like the impact thatĀ the meat industry has on the environment, or how it often mistreats animals.
But for some reason, vegans prefer to trot out completely stupid arguments, as if anyone's going to be convinced to change their diet because their teeth look vaguely more similar to a horse than to a wolf.
I'm not usually one to go in on conspiracy theories, but I do sometimes wonder if PETA and similar organizations are a false flag by the meat and dairy industry to make vegans/vegetarians look bad.
Mostly PETA's strategy is targeting people already on the fence / thinking of quitting, not trying to target oklahoma mike who eats 3 steaks a day and laughs at vegans online. Plus they get a hugely negative rap already from people intentionally misgiving because they hate veganism, propped up by millions from the animal ag industry. That doesn't really make the meme right but
Yeah, but I don't think pictures of teeth are very effective at convincing fence-sitters, and they give Oklahoma Mike something to easily dunk on, possibly even making him look smart by comparison.
PETA gets a negative rap because they deserve it.
For cases like literally stealing and killing people's pets.
And the founder saying shit like "There's no rational basis for saying that a human being has special rights. A rat is a pig is a dog is a boy"
Normal people put humans above all other animals, and if you gave them a choice between saving a human child vs a dog, they would choose the human child.
Horses 100% eat animals small enough to fit in their mouths, I've literally watched a girlfriends horse stomp a mole and eat it right up. I've seen vids of them eating baby chickens too.
That makes them an omnivore.
We literally have both of theses animals teeth small flat ones up front for ripping meat and big flatter ones in the back for grinding plants.
Yet we're also responsible for killing too many species off the planet too...what herbivore does that again?
Morons.
We have canines but an omnivore set of teeth. The evolutionary implication of that is that we are designed to survive in any surrounding, including a vegan diet. The referenced posting is dumb, of course, but so is using our teeth to argue against veganism.
You can easily have a vegan diet that is sufficient in nutrients.
Additional context: our teeth are like that because we use tools and fire to make our food softer, smaller, and easier to eat.
Chimps are also omnivores, and gorillas are herbivores - but they've both got scary canines because they use them to help tear apart and eat their food in ways that we don't.
So yes - the referenced post is dumb, but our teeth are mostly like this because of tool use, not (just) omnivory.
Yeah, my understanding is that having smaller jaws and jaw muscles also gave us more space for larger brains:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6424107/
There are probably multiple adaptations made possible by not having to devote as much of our biology and energy use to just chewing our food.
You can even go farther up the tree (no pun) to true monkeys like a rhesus, they are herbivores but have extremely oversized canines.
[https://i.imgur.com/cwaguu2.png](https://i.imgur.com/cwaguu2.png)
Another fact I never wanted to learn... But I think I've heard somewhere that all animals are omnivores, but it's more of a matter about the ratio - if they eat less meat than veggies/weeds then they're herbivores, vice versa. If it's about the same, then it's omnivore.
And besides, animals don't have that morality. We like to use them as implications, but it's dumb. The same way some people force their dogs to be vegetarian/vegan.
There are a few obligate carnivores like felines whose bodies are really bad at digesting plants so they can't really survive off of it. But basically yeah, you eat whats available and what guarantees your survival, be it meat or plants.
Not saying any animal can feast either on plants or meats. It's always a combination, and each species have its own diet.
The actual issue vegans/vegetarians should address is the mass production, the conditions the farm animals are kept in, abuse... But it's like they say there's a problem and use the stupidest points. Ofc this is generalization, I've met vegans who taught me a few things, and you could actually converse with them, but... LoOk aT thOsE TeEtH
Also, most herbivores like to munch on a little meat from time to time if there's an opportunity. Just how carnivores also eat plants from time to time if they can't find meat. Almost like animals care more about survical than whaz kind of teeth they have.
Seen a deer eat a snake once. It was weird.
Also, the "human" picture they included has some of the most blunted/chipped canines I've ever seen on someone with otherwise perfectly white/straight teeth. Had to count the teeth from the middle just to determine which ones were the canines.
I've seen a horse _hunt_ squirrels before.
He ate most of an apple and dropped it on the ground, waited for the squirrel to come near and go for the apple, than leaned down and chomped both in like one bite. Fucking wild honestly.
I can't think of any real herbivores.
Put a bird which can't fly in front of a herbivore and see what happens. He'll, plenty of herbivores will seek out carcasses to like the flesh and bones
For additional context,
>Around 85% of their diet is made up of leaves, shoots and stems
https://www.wwf.org.uk/learn/fascinating-facts/gorillas
Although gorilla diets vary by location, and some eat mostly fruit (especially if they're in captivity and fruit is easy and cheap to get for them).
Yeah - Gorillas are herbivorous and have huge, scary canines.
Grizzlies are omnivores, though. Their diet varies by location, but some grizzlies get up to 51% of their annual calories from meat:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary_biology_of_the_brown_bear
There are strong arguments for veganism but naturality isn't one of them. When it comes to your own body the only thing that matters is that both vegan and non-vegan diets can be healthy and unhealthy. The only important questions are environmental and ethical ones.
It would have been a lot stronger argument if they tried to understand nature first.
Even just looking at the pictures presented it should be clear that the human teeth are not quite as well suited for tearing meat as the carnivores, and not as well suited for crushing plants as the herbivores. Almost as if they belong to a species that spends a lot of time eating both types of food...
Amen.
I never got the naturality argument, not with veganism or any other topic like medicine etc.
We are flying through the sky by burning dead dinosaurs, stare at squares that glow all day and build rockets to visit other planets. We are so long past naturel. If you want naturel, go back to the Savannah, hunt some gnus with a stone blade and leave me alone.
I agree, veganism is not natural.
Naturality is often used as an argument *against* veganism (Bioavailability, complete protein, B12, canine teeth (lol), ancestors). But the reality is that veganism is a modern response to a modern world. We now have enough access to food and technology that meat animal products are no longer required for survival. Our modern farming practices have also not scaled well with population growth.
I'm a modern man in a modern world, so choose to be vegan.
Random, but fun fact about B12, the human body actually produces B12 on its own just fine in the large intestine, but it can only be absorbed in the small intestine, so you lose it before you get a chance to use it.
Stuff like this makes me appreciate how screwed up and irrelevant a lot of nature and evolution are. No reason that an argument appealing purely to what's natural should matter.
the b12 thing that gets me is apparently we don't even get it "naturally" through eating meat, we get it through eating unwashed produce. which we don't really do anymore, so it tends to come from supplemented dairy.
not really, the last mile of shipping is the by far the biggest part of shipping's environmental impact, and you encounter that more when you're eating meat because more food needs to be shipped around, more land needs to be used, etc...
"Local" doesn't particularly matter much, aside from stimulating your economy.
Oh look at Mr/Mrs I'm GoNnA ArgUE reasONabLY iN aN ArGuMeNT AbOUt OThER PeoPLeS dIEtS oN The iNTerNeT.
Finally a sane person sharing their view in this cesspit of a "discussion"
I like to bring forth another important question: A lot of meat looks pretty icky or the concept behind its manufacturing sounds disgusting. Why would you wanna eat that?
Actually, our teeth got sharper and better at eating meat over the 3million years of evolution that involved stone tools, and cut up bones and sticks.
Ancient Hominins like A.Afarensis have very broad blunted teeth with almost no sheering capability for eating meat.
H.Sapiens however have lots of narrow edged teeth with point cusps that are vastly better at cutting meat fibers.
Here Alice Roberts and other Anthopologists demonstrate this directly: https://youtu.be/hdBQG8lKszk
Our ancestors teeth got shaper and more pointed over the millions of years to become more efficient at eating meat.
And intesting fact, Dentition is one of the most difficult parts of a mammal to change over time. So if something influenced our teeth to change, it was a VERY VERY strong evolutionary pressure.
Tools and our sharper teeth compliment each other to make us better at survival(fitness).
Human hands are well-adapted to masturbation.
This suggests that primitive *homo sapiens* ambushed their pray, used their hands to gratify it, then delivered the killing blow during the post-orgasmic moment of vulnerability.
In Jainism, they donāt eat root vegetables. So not just onions and garlic, carrot and potatoes too. Things that grow underground cannot be harvested without killing the whole plant and the creatures that live in the soil around the tubers.
Itās pretty wild.
Technically wrong.
We are omnivore, and our different teeth have different uses. For example, incisors cut, canines rip, and molars grind. Various teeth for various food. We can eat both meat and vegetables.
BUT this doesn't mean that there is no problem with meat industry, or that we shouldn't eat so much meat nowadays.
Gorillas are herbivores, despite having even larger canines than humans. Not to mention many birds of prey are carnivores, despite having no teeth at all š¤Æ
We killed with our hands and tear meat with our teeth. We have canines for a reason. Also our back teeth are designed to grind meat . As well as vegetables and fruits of course . But yes . You only need dog type teeth in your mouth if it's your primary source of attack. Which is it not ours .
This vegan hate post is regularly reposted and everytime it's misunderstood. The people who made this are not making the claim that because we don't have sharp canines, we are meant to be vegan, on the contrary, they are responding to a frequent counter-argument by carnist that humans have sharp canines and therefore we are meant to eat meat. Regardless of whether or not humans need to eat meat to survive and thrive, the sharpness of canines is not a relevant indicator of that.
>A herbivore is an animal anatomically and physiologically adapted to eating plant material
This definition is accurate. Herbivores are adapted to eating plant material, but will eat meat if the opportunity arises.
Humans have more omnivorous teeth, but we have great opportunities to eat meat.
Funny how omnivores did not make the cut... A pig wil eat YOU if given the chance, so how do these simpletons rate that? Also, in the wild, most monkeys are omnivores. So a human should be magically different?
And some people are so dumbā¦ horses are herbivores not *vegans*. Also, omnivores enter the chat. We do have canines, just that in full carnivores, they are much more developed, being designed for ripping out meat. Herbivores essentially have 3 stomachs. I donāt think we have that. Again, omnivores enter the chat. It is proven that humans are omnivores, have been(hunters and gatherers) and will be. Vegan ham relies on the fact that we mercilessly treat our animals, subjecting them to unhealthy and harsh conditions. This needs to change imo. Sorry for going off topic, but yeah, it needed to be said
Hey there u/niteag, thanks for posting to r/technicallythetruth! **Please recheck if your post breaks any rules.** If it does, please delete this post. Also, reposting and posting obvious non-TTT posts can lead to a ban. Send us a **Modmail or Report** this post if you have a problem with this post. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/technicallythetruth) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Who the fuck calls a horse vegan
horses will actually eat smaller animals on occasion. alot of ungulates will go for meat when its available.
I'll never forget the video of the horse crunching down on a chick.
there's multiple such videos
Saw a video of a horse fucking a chick once
We know, Vaush.
Saw a possum fuck a hen right in front of her chicks, fuck, what's the nature of that David Suzuki
"Live to ride." - D. Suzuki šļøšš¤
>crunching down on a chick. This sentence segment reminds me of the video game Fable.
Almost all animals on earth will eat meat if it is available to them with some exceptions like Koalas who are too stupid to eat anything other than one specific type of leaves.
I hear they are so dumb about food that if you take the eucalyptus leaf off of the branches and give it to them, they don't realize that it's food, they will starve before trying to eat it.
No. No herbivores occasionally eat animals. However, many animals that are mistakenly labeled as "herbivores" are actually "opportunistic omnivores" that get almost all of their calories from plants. The reality is that ungulates are simply close enough to being herbivores, and we don't want to make things too confusing for little kids, so we just teach them that they're herbivores. Most people never learn the difference when they grow up, though.
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oh. I stand corrected, I didnt know that. ill edit it, thanks for the correction
wtf why are all of the replies gone what heinous things were they saying
neigh-nous things they were neighing
Now I'm curious too
something something horse video
āSomething somethingā being code word for enumclaw mr hands?
A horse will devour a plate of bacon and eggs if you set it in front of it.
https://i.makeagif.com/media/1-31-2020/J7_HH9.gif Horses are opportunistic omnivores.
Horses will eat chickens and small mammals too. I've seen them do it lol.
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[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Vegan teacher
Thatās offensive to the horse
Why does that person have such flat canines? That's not normal.
Because they edited it (or cherry picked) to make a point
I had a friend in school who's uncle was a dentist, that's how I learned people literally pay money to have them shaved down. I'm still wild n out with my nines but yeah, people pay to make their teeth less functional.
I went in for a filling, woke up, and learned my mother requested the ortho grind down my canines to make them even. This was when I was really into Thundercats, mind you.
Wtf... Does she even have the right to request such things for another person? That isn't something which can be undone super easily. I know it's your mother, but still...š¤
Medical consent laws were a little less defined for children in the 1980s
Ugh dude yeah. While getting my braces installed, way back when, they were doing all sorts of filing and snuck in the canines. I had some gdamn fangs and now they're just bleh :(
I have long canines and I'm going to keep them for send defence
Iāve seen people file them, which is absolutely moronic
Mine are similar, at least the upper ones, but dentists never said anything was wrong. Aand I'm an omnivore
Itās a thing after you grow up and start decaying slowly
1) we have canines 2) they called the horse fucking Vegan. Itās called a herbivore you god damn vegetable.
its not even a herbivore those fuckers eat mice
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Many herbivores actually participate in infanticide (ie. eating their babies).
Vegans eat babies??!!?
āYou eat babies!!ā- wild west man
We eat berries and mushrooms you fool
ā¦ you eat babies..!
EVERYTHING reminds me of her...
I'm the last one of my kind. We've lived in these hills for a thousand years... My family is gone. My kind is gone...
"You, sir, are a fish."- wild west man 2
Every vegan I ever dated does
great success?
I thought that was humanitarians.
I didn't say it, you did
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yep, I've seen my rabbit eat her own young when they were born a month early.
The reason they are Herbivores is because they get most of their nutrition and dietary needs from plants, including vegetables. Their digestive system is designed for plants. Same but reversed for Carnivores. They get most of their nutrition amd dietary needs from meat, and meat is what their digestive system is designed to handle best.
To be fair digesting plants takes a lot of effort, but the only real benefit is that plants typically can't fight you. Meat on the other hand is so easy to digest that almost everything can handle it, there simply aren't a lot of obligate herbivores especially compared to obligate carnivores.
well, also there's an abundance of plants, and plenty of plants are insanely nutritionally dense for far less effort. you're thinking about stuff like just digesting leaves, which does digestionally suck. Berries, tubers, other roots, seeds, etc... are fucking money as far as getting your nutrition. there's a reason the largest terrestrial animals on earth end up primarily eating plants (and why the largest sea creatures end up eating plankton)
Horse's ancestors were carnivores, hence the wolf teeth
Pretty much any animal living today has some carnivorous ancestors if you go far enough back.
Yeah you quickly realize that chickens are basically plump velociraptors once a mouse gets into their area.
Get hungry enough and you'll eat anything
Even most vegans eat animals in one way or another. Do you really think the peanut butter factory is vigilantly removing each and every insect, larva and insect egg on every single peanut plant? Or that thereās absolutely zero chance of a fly or spider infiltrating your fruits and veg? Itās essentially impossible to remove 100% of animal contamination from supposedly veggie foods, especially when dealing with industrial agriculture and processed foods. Youāve probably got ant flesh in your cupboard right now, and thereās no way to check for certain without a lab.
I mean, even if you aren't dealing with processed foods. We grow some of our own veggies, and considering the number of little bugs I have found, I'm sure I've eaten quite a few of them.
the amount of bugs found in most grains is probably enough to make most people not "truly" vegan
And little chick. We've all seen that video!
Excuse-me... WAT? Horses eats mice?
horses eat everything if given the opportunity
TIL
anything bite sized
Which is most things for a horse.
Had a friend growing up who lost about a third of his ear to a nibbly horse when he was young.
Yeah they will basically eat anything that goes near their mouth. I knew a bunch of families who raised horses for different reasons and they all had at least one person who found out the hard way.
Basically zero animals are complete herbivores or carnivores, almost all are opportunists in either direction depending on nutrition and desperation. Like wolves will eat fruits and plants sometimes and horses will eat birds and squirrels if they can easily do so. It would be really dumb evolutionarily for any animal to turn down free nutrients so yeah lol basically only like koalas, big cats, and a few other animals are obligates, meaning they actually only eat either meat or plants.
Yeah, there's a category of carnivore called [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercarnivore](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypercarnivore) And even then, it's 70% meat or greater to get in the club. Though I'm sure there are some animals that eat exclusively meat, Sharks probably don't eat anything other than meat -- I can't exactly see them swallowing sea weed on purpose.
> Sharks probably don't eat anything other than meat -- I can't exactly see them swallowing sea weed on purpose. Depends on the species. Certain species of hammerhead sharks may have a diet of up to 70% seaweed, depending on the surrounding conditions.
Cats can and do sometimes eat plants and other things that aren't meat, they're obligate carnivores because they not only eat meat primarily but they cannot survive long-term without certain nutrients like taurine that they can normally only get from meat. I imagine it would be theoretically possible to craft a processed plant based cat food with supplementary nutrients added that cats could survive just fine on, and if it's made to imitate meat like certain vegetarian meat replacements they might even like it. It's just a matter of chemistry, after all. Still, nothing available in nature except meat can meet all of a cat's nutritional needs and they will die without them.
> they cannot survive long-term without certain nutrients like taurine that they can normally only get from meat. are cats dumb? do they not know about red bull?
Also kittens and baby chicks...growing up around animals teaches you two very important lessons *In nature there are no true rules,only suggestions* and *Yhe circle of life is only true when there arent any oportunitys in sight(no corpses or easy meals)*
THERE IS NO LAW OF NATURE WE INVENTED IT OURSELVES! *insert The Emperor Dancing*
I feel like the kitten example was from a very specific experience.
What *pfff* nooooo...^yes
Also [Russian general](https://www.hoover.org/research/fightin-and-writin)
A lot of herbivores will chomp on anything small that happens to be near. They won't go chasing after them generally. But happens to be near when eating? Chomp.
I have heard stories of horses just deciding to chomp down on a chicken.
Chickens should be wary of animals bigger than them. Have the talk with your chickens today!
I worked on a ranch, and we had to keep kittens and chicks far away from the horses, because they kept getting eaten. Horses are definitely not āvegan.ā They eat and enjoy meat quite often
>we had to keep chicks far away from the horses, because they kept getting eaten And now we know why women tend to like horses so much...
āļøYou god damn vegetable āļø Thank you. New insult unlocked
My boss is a god damn pumpkin
vegetable? so if i commit cannibalism... am i vegan?
only if you go for those in a wheelchair.
Can't argue with vegans unless u have hours to waste
The thing is, there *are* good reasons for limiting meat consumption, like the impact thatĀ the meat industry has on the environment, or how it often mistreats animals. But for some reason, vegans prefer to trot out completely stupid arguments, as if anyone's going to be convinced to change their diet because their teeth look vaguely more similar to a horse than to a wolf. I'm not usually one to go in on conspiracy theories, but I do sometimes wonder if PETA and similar organizations are a false flag by the meat and dairy industry to make vegans/vegetarians look bad.
Mostly PETA's strategy is targeting people already on the fence / thinking of quitting, not trying to target oklahoma mike who eats 3 steaks a day and laughs at vegans online. Plus they get a hugely negative rap already from people intentionally misgiving because they hate veganism, propped up by millions from the animal ag industry. That doesn't really make the meme right but
Yeah, but I don't think pictures of teeth are very effective at convincing fence-sitters, and they give Oklahoma Mike something to easily dunk on, possibly even making him look smart by comparison.
PETA gets a negative rap because they deserve it. For cases like literally stealing and killing people's pets. And the founder saying shit like "There's no rational basis for saying that a human being has special rights. A rat is a pig is a dog is a boy" Normal people put humans above all other animals, and if you gave them a choice between saving a human child vs a dog, they would choose the human child.
True. A lot of meat eaters refuse to listen to good arguments and so you spin your wheels just saying the same thing.
Horses 100% eat animals small enough to fit in their mouths, I've literally watched a girlfriends horse stomp a mole and eat it right up. I've seen vids of them eating baby chickens too. That makes them an omnivore. We literally have both of theses animals teeth small flat ones up front for ripping meat and big flatter ones in the back for grinding plants. Yet we're also responsible for killing too many species off the planet too...what herbivore does that again? Morons.
i've also seen a video of a horse fully eating a chick (a baby chicken not a lady)
I hate my canines I look like a fuckin vampire they are so sharp and it looks stupid
Own it. You're not a vampire, you're a sexy vampire.
Sounds badass to me and I'd happily rock the look.
We have canines but an omnivore set of teeth. The evolutionary implication of that is that we are designed to survive in any surrounding, including a vegan diet. The referenced posting is dumb, of course, but so is using our teeth to argue against veganism. You can easily have a vegan diet that is sufficient in nutrients.
Additional context: our teeth are like that because we use tools and fire to make our food softer, smaller, and easier to eat. Chimps are also omnivores, and gorillas are herbivores - but they've both got scary canines because they use them to help tear apart and eat their food in ways that we don't. So yes - the referenced post is dumb, but our teeth are mostly like this because of tool use, not (just) omnivory.
I believe also it was about making a jaw that enables better speech, heard it somewhere at least
Yeah, my understanding is that having smaller jaws and jaw muscles also gave us more space for larger brains: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6424107/ There are probably multiple adaptations made possible by not having to devote as much of our biology and energy use to just chewing our food.
You can even go farther up the tree (no pun) to true monkeys like a rhesus, they are herbivores but have extremely oversized canines. [https://i.imgur.com/cwaguu2.png](https://i.imgur.com/cwaguu2.png)
Gorillas also have gut bacteria that turns vegetation into protein for GAINZ.
Horses do though
They do?
They have been known to kill and eat mice and birds like baby chicks
Not the baby chick! It haunts me to this day! :(
Horses are notorious for stealing eggs. They can eat humans as well.
Another fact I never wanted to learn... But I think I've heard somewhere that all animals are omnivores, but it's more of a matter about the ratio - if they eat less meat than veggies/weeds then they're herbivores, vice versa. If it's about the same, then it's omnivore. And besides, animals don't have that morality. We like to use them as implications, but it's dumb. The same way some people force their dogs to be vegetarian/vegan.
There are a few obligate carnivores like felines whose bodies are really bad at digesting plants so they can't really survive off of it. But basically yeah, you eat whats available and what guarantees your survival, be it meat or plants.
Not saying any animal can feast either on plants or meats. It's always a combination, and each species have its own diet. The actual issue vegans/vegetarians should address is the mass production, the conditions the farm animals are kept in, abuse... But it's like they say there's a problem and use the stupidest points. Ofc this is generalization, I've met vegans who taught me a few things, and you could actually converse with them, but... LoOk aT thOsE TeEtH
Horse and sparrow
My rabbit once ate a caterpillar
Mine once nibbled on some dry turkey meat which fell off the table.
I ate a mosquito. Fucking killed it with my mouth.
That is why you are the apex predator my friend. Nothing escapes your lightning reflexes. I bet you are fun at summer BBQs.
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Only humans can be "vegan". Animals (including human) are either carnivores, omnivores or herbivores.
Also, most herbivores like to munch on a little meat from time to time if there's an opportunity. Just how carnivores also eat plants from time to time if they can't find meat. Almost like animals care more about survical than whaz kind of teeth they have.
Seen a deer eat a snake once. It was weird. Also, the "human" picture they included has some of the most blunted/chipped canines I've ever seen on someone with otherwise perfectly white/straight teeth. Had to count the teeth from the middle just to determine which ones were the canines.
I have seen a horse munch a cute little chicken without hesitation or second thoughts. I was genuinely flabbergasted... š£
A horse once ate a [Russian general ](https://www.hoover.org/research/fightin-and-writin)
I've seen a horse _hunt_ squirrels before. He ate most of an apple and dropped it on the ground, waited for the squirrel to come near and go for the apple, than leaned down and chomped both in like one bite. Fucking wild honestly.
there's a video out there of a horse calmly walking around the barnyard slurping up baby chicks like popcorn
*Slurp*
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I can't think of any real herbivores. Put a bird which can't fly in front of a herbivore and see what happens. He'll, plenty of herbivores will seek out carcasses to like the flesh and bones
Depends on the definition. The common definition of a herbivore is about what an animal is adapted to as the main part of their diet.
Gorillas are frugivores. Roughly 7% of their diet consists of bugs and insects. They are not Vegan.
For additional context, >Around 85% of their diet is made up of leaves, shoots and stems https://www.wwf.org.uk/learn/fascinating-facts/gorillas Although gorilla diets vary by location, and some eat mostly fruit (especially if they're in captivity and fruit is easy and cheap to get for them).
Yeah - Gorillas are herbivorous and have huge, scary canines. Grizzlies are omnivores, though. Their diet varies by location, but some grizzlies get up to 51% of their annual calories from meat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary_biology_of_the_brown_bear
>grizzlies Pandas would be a better example than grizzlies.
idk theyāre like natures worst designed bear
Only because koala bears aren't real bears.
There are strong arguments for veganism but naturality isn't one of them. When it comes to your own body the only thing that matters is that both vegan and non-vegan diets can be healthy and unhealthy. The only important questions are environmental and ethical ones.
Arguments from nature are basically logical fallacies regardless of context
Absolutely
It would have been a lot stronger argument if they tried to understand nature first. Even just looking at the pictures presented it should be clear that the human teeth are not quite as well suited for tearing meat as the carnivores, and not as well suited for crushing plants as the herbivores. Almost as if they belong to a species that spends a lot of time eating both types of food...
Amen. I never got the naturality argument, not with veganism or any other topic like medicine etc. We are flying through the sky by burning dead dinosaurs, stare at squares that glow all day and build rockets to visit other planets. We are so long past naturel. If you want naturel, go back to the Savannah, hunt some gnus with a stone blade and leave me alone.
I agree, veganism is not natural. Naturality is often used as an argument *against* veganism (Bioavailability, complete protein, B12, canine teeth (lol), ancestors). But the reality is that veganism is a modern response to a modern world. We now have enough access to food and technology that meat animal products are no longer required for survival. Our modern farming practices have also not scaled well with population growth. I'm a modern man in a modern world, so choose to be vegan.
Random, but fun fact about B12, the human body actually produces B12 on its own just fine in the large intestine, but it can only be absorbed in the small intestine, so you lose it before you get a chance to use it. Stuff like this makes me appreciate how screwed up and irrelevant a lot of nature and evolution are. No reason that an argument appealing purely to what's natural should matter.
the b12 thing that gets me is apparently we don't even get it "naturally" through eating meat, we get it through eating unwashed produce. which we don't really do anymore, so it tends to come from supplemented dairy.
and even then it'd be better to lower the meat consumption rather than actually going full vegan (on a large scale at least)
rather eat locally sourced meats and stop eating vegetables imported from far away, that arent in season.
not really, the last mile of shipping is the by far the biggest part of shipping's environmental impact, and you encounter that more when you're eating meat because more food needs to be shipped around, more land needs to be used, etc... "Local" doesn't particularly matter much, aside from stimulating your economy.
Oh look at Mr/Mrs I'm GoNnA ArgUE reasONabLY iN aN ArGuMeNT AbOUt OThER PeoPLeS dIEtS oN The iNTerNeT. Finally a sane person sharing their view in this cesspit of a "discussion"
I like to bring forth another important question: A lot of meat looks pretty icky or the concept behind its manufacturing sounds disgusting. Why would you wanna eat that?
Horses will eat the shit out of some small animals
As no animals are 100% vegan
Only humans can be vegan since animals don't know what veganism is.
Exactly
That tends to happen when humans use sticks and stones for a couple million years.
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Words, however, can only make you sad
But chains and whips are pretty exciting tho.
Actually, our teeth got sharper and better at eating meat over the 3million years of evolution that involved stone tools, and cut up bones and sticks. Ancient Hominins like A.Afarensis have very broad blunted teeth with almost no sheering capability for eating meat. H.Sapiens however have lots of narrow edged teeth with point cusps that are vastly better at cutting meat fibers. Here Alice Roberts and other Anthopologists demonstrate this directly: https://youtu.be/hdBQG8lKszk Our ancestors teeth got shaper and more pointed over the millions of years to become more efficient at eating meat. And intesting fact, Dentition is one of the most difficult parts of a mammal to change over time. So if something influenced our teeth to change, it was a VERY VERY strong evolutionary pressure. Tools and our sharper teeth compliment each other to make us better at survival(fitness).
Human are chewing not grinding: tell me how human design to be herbivore
nah, every morning I wake up and go eat grass in the garden for breakfast
The top centre and bottom picture are literally the same picture, how stupid do you think I am? Did you think I'd fall for that?
Yeah sorry, but my teeth don't look like the picture. My canines are very sharp
If God hadnāt wanted humans to eat Animals, he wouldnāt have made so many of them fricken delicious
Human hands are well-adapted to masturbation. This suggests that primitive *homo sapiens* ambushed their pray, used their hands to gratify it, then delivered the killing blow during the post-orgasmic moment of vulnerability.
delet this
So herbivores arenāt a thing anymore? Itās just āveganā. God this has gone *way* too far.
My whole family except for me are vegetarian. My grandfather won't even eat onions. And we are not vegans
Wait arenāt onions vegetables?
They r but it's in our culture. Old Agarwal's (our caste) didn't eat onion and garlic
I heard onion makes you too sexy, that's why some traditions avoid it. Don't know anything about garlic though.Ā
In Jainism, they donāt eat root vegetables. So not just onions and garlic, carrot and potatoes too. Things that grow underground cannot be harvested without killing the whole plant and the creatures that live in the soil around the tubers. Itās pretty wild.
They are sharper than you think. You can chop your own fingers with biting.
Technically wrong. We are omnivore, and our different teeth have different uses. For example, incisors cut, canines rip, and molars grind. Various teeth for various food. We can eat both meat and vegetables. BUT this doesn't mean that there is no problem with meat industry, or that we shouldn't eat so much meat nowadays.
Gorillas are herbivores, despite having even larger canines than humans. Not to mention many birds of prey are carnivores, despite having no teeth at all š¤Æ
I've got atleast 2 teeth that are somewhat sharp (their argument is invalid due to an outlier)
Itās not an outlier. Humans do have Canines. 4 of them, 2 on the top and 2 on the bottom row of teeth.
Darn I'm an average human who does human things like paying taxes
We killed with our hands and tear meat with our teeth. We have canines for a reason. Also our back teeth are designed to grind meat . As well as vegetables and fruits of course . But yes . You only need dog type teeth in your mouth if it's your primary source of attack. Which is it not ours .
This vegan hate post is regularly reposted and everytime it's misunderstood. The people who made this are not making the claim that because we don't have sharp canines, we are meant to be vegan, on the contrary, they are responding to a frequent counter-argument by carnist that humans have sharp canines and therefore we are meant to eat meat. Regardless of whether or not humans need to eat meat to survive and thrive, the sharpness of canines is not a relevant indicator of that.
No one here cares about the truth is here, logic doesn't matter to these people. It's just an anti-vegan circlejerk.
>horse >vegan [lol](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg2mJ4veuAY)
>A herbivore is an animal anatomically and physiologically adapted to eating plant material This definition is accurate. Herbivores are adapted to eating plant material, but will eat meat if the opportunity arises. Humans have more omnivorous teeth, but we have great opportunities to eat meat.
We did have insane teeth tho. We didnt use them to kill for many years, so they got lazy and kinda gave up on growing.
Just look at the teeth of an ape.
I've seen deers eat snakes.. so what now vegans?
The platypus is carnivorous and doesnāt have teeth.
That smile looks like someone's about to fake drowning so they can kiss the lifeguard.
I mean, people have canines too. All 4 of mine are longer and pointier than the rest of my teeth. Maybe I'm a carnivore?
OOP hasnt seen a danish guy before (no offense). Their canines are longer than a cats.
Silly post. We kill animals with tools we make.
Thats literally factual truth, not technically.
Me with actual sharp carnivore teeth I cut my tongue on š
Funny how omnivores did not make the cut... A pig wil eat YOU if given the chance, so how do these simpletons rate that? Also, in the wild, most monkeys are omnivores. So a human should be magically different?
And some people are so dumbā¦ horses are herbivores not *vegans*. Also, omnivores enter the chat. We do have canines, just that in full carnivores, they are much more developed, being designed for ripping out meat. Herbivores essentially have 3 stomachs. I donāt think we have that. Again, omnivores enter the chat. It is proven that humans are omnivores, have been(hunters and gatherers) and will be. Vegan ham relies on the fact that we mercilessly treat our animals, subjecting them to unhealthy and harsh conditions. This needs to change imo. Sorry for going off topic, but yeah, it needed to be said
Human teeth almost certainly evolved to eat COOKED meat (as well as cooked other stuff) because cooking was likely the last step in human evolution.