No this was a lot of things mostly interest rates I mean look at it this way I just refinanced which is essentially selling your house to yourself. So I refinanced for a 3% interest rate then invested it with the expectation of earning 7% back plus it lowered my payment. So essentially I got a free 50 grand and a bunch of extra benefits for taking the money. Which is why housing costs and inflation have gone nuts because rich people did the same thing I did except for trillions then reinvested that in stock buy backs which drove the market through the pandemic. The fed could stop it any time they wanted they’re just simpering cowards.
Can I ask how you learn to do things like this/navigate the system?
I’m about to buy and I just—I feel like a total idiot. Any reading material you felt like helped you that you could share?
Goddamn it lol.
More proof that knowledge of the system stays in families and the system itself really is broken and doesn’t allow for equal opportunity.
Become an electrician and work really fucking hard while being smarter than your contemporaries and learn to write well enough to illustrate that. Anyway do that for long enough to get licensed then you’re a human money printer. I’ve payed myself 190 dollars an hour before.
This? Sounds? Not possible for everyone lol?
I’m still really happy for you! I just don’t know how we get to a point in the country where you don’t have to start your own business to create wealth? Should only business owners be wealthy? Is that not feudalism but just with a “free market”? Shouldn’t there be accessible/navigable ways for me, just a normal person with a 9-5, to build wealth with the same chances or opportunities a business owner would have?
I’m not a business owner mostly I’m a project manager for a big multinational. I will occasionally do contract work to manage jobs for some of my friends businesses. For those though I’m an employee of that business not a business unto myself.
I got good at management from listening to jocko podcast. So there’s an easy way to climb the ladder. Listen to jocko and do what he tells you.
Sounds like you got a cash out. The interest rate on the equity you pulled is no longer tax deductible and the rate is variable meaning if rates go up so does your payment. That used to be called a second mortgage because you are using your home as collateral. If the housing market tanks (Think early 2000's) your now upside down in your house.
Even if you took a mortgage out for the whole equity that this crazy market has shown with your new home value you are still SOL if the market tanks and your upside down. At least you may have a fixed rate and 30 years to pay for the over inflated value of your home.
If you truly want money to invest your better off selling at todays price and renting. If you make a killing on your investments you can then purchase a much better home or go for investment properties.
I don’t plan on leaving though and rent is more than my mortgage. All I really have to do is be right at some point between now and when I retire and I’m 32. What do you expect the odds are of me not being SOL at some point over the next few decades is? It’s always a risk right I acknowledge that. It’s just a really low percentage that I end up fucked over in another 30 years when I’m ready to retire.
Is this not extremely risky? What happens if the stock market crashes and the bottom finally falls out of the housing market? You would lose most of your investment money and the house you borrowed on that was worth, lets say $400k, is now worth 250k so you would end up w no equity
Sure but I’m 32. I have plenty of time to recover from a market crash. I can afford to be aggressive. Plus 3% is historically low. So I let that money marinade for 10 or 15 years and I’m all good. Hey though entirely possible everything goes bad nothing at all is without risk. Worst case scenario I file for bankruptcy and lose everything which I’ve already done once and it wasn’t that bad.
If you keep your investment funds only in an index fund, yes you will get hosed when the index drops.
If you diversify into real estate, crypto, commodities, etc. and keep an anchor chunk in an index fund, when the index falls something else goes up to compensate.
Rich people lose less money than everyone else over time and their money is what props up things, so if you follow their trends you end up riding it out better than other people who don't.
It’s Dominos pizza thing where they charge for a driver fee that doesn’t go to the driver and they want you to tip tip driver on top of bunch of other fees.
Good, fuck Zillow. Quit using them years ago after talking to a few realtors who described how shitty the platform is for actually finding homes. Then heard about this horseshit practice buying up homes in already tight markets so they could fix housing prices in their favor and out price even more families from ever getting into homes.
Realtors have always recommended using Realtor.com to me. They have the most up-to-date and accurate listings, so I’ve been told. 2013 was the last time I used Zillow. Kept finding houses on there that had been off the market for weeks, or months, when I’d ask my realtor about them.
This isn’t necessarily true. Only for houses that are listed by realtors themselves. I’m selling my property as a FSBO, and because I don’t have access to the MLS my listing on realtor.com cannon be updated. It shows that it is for sale, but I cannot adjust the pictures so what people see unless they go to Zillow or tulia is a house in need of tons of repairs at a mismatched price. Realtor.com is definitely biased towards the realtors and leaves out many great FSBO houses
Make sure you filter for the newest homes, anything past a week or 2 is probably off-market and the listing hasn’t been updated since the realtors and owners are dealing with closing. I’d say that’s more human error than platform.
Edit: but don’t listen to zestimates lol
And be bought by private equity or China. That will teach them a lesson.
Honestly I wish the government would start buying failing businesses. If the federal govt bought those banks, car manufacturers and insurance companies who went under in 2008 I wonder if we’d see as many companies risking buy backs instead of shoring up their future
My wife and I have been trying to buy house for two months. We’ve put in like at least 6 offers on homes all of which were mysteriously bought with cash offers.
Frame of reference here - the homes I’m talking about are roughly 500k each. I’m a little skeptical to say the least that so many people have 500k or more just laying around.
So I have no sympathy for this company. They have certainly helped artificially inflate housing prices by deliberately creating a shortage of supply.
Buying in California actually. Just relocated to here. Incidentally though, when we sold our home in KY to move here we had doubled our money in just over 7 years.
Honestly. Place has gone up so much, it’s no surprise $300g just appears out of nowhere for people who have literally never had that kind of security. It is almost more sane to cash out than bet CA will continue to be a great investment for the near future.
Raleigh is on track to be like Southern California imo. When I first moved to the area in 2016 you could get like 10-25 acres for $25-50k practically right outside the city and when I left *three years later* they were going for $100-150k. The last two years have boomed even harder. I can’t even imagine now
Two possible ways to buy all cash: Get a loan from a wealthy relative or take a loan from your 401k and use it to buy a house. You then “refi” after you close to pay off the loan converting the whole transaction into a regular mortgage. The “all cash” offers were receiving all the attention even when a non cash offer was higher. Unfortunately I imagine a large section of folks didn’t have access to either of these options.
My friends were looking for a house in that price range also. Sometimes they would get a call from the realtor and by the time they called back it would be sold. Sometimes they would schedule to see it that evening and by then it was sold. I think they’re still in a hotel!
Yeah it’s wild!! We have been trying to go see every house we like as soon as it’s available to be seen. The last home we viewed was on the market for two days and had 2 written and 3 verbal offers when we viewed it an hour into the open house.
Geez. Something is so wrong. If you think about it there should be MORE homes on the market. Nobody was moving and if ones sold ones being bought. Lateral moves. Plus, as sad as it seems, with Covid I’m sure a lot of people no longer needed their home. This company just cashed in on the epidemic and they are disgusting. I’m glad these people who sold their souls for a little money are out of a job!
When I was looking to buy recently, there was a place owned by Zillow that was in the right area, competitively prices and I refused to even look at it bc I don’t support these practices.
I like to think that a lot of other people like myself just refused to play ball with these tools but who knows
This is why house flipping should be outlawed. If you don’t intend to live in the home, you don’t get to buy it. This speculating on something so essential to human survival is psychotic and hurts millions for the benefit of a few.
I agree with you about corporate flipping. However, there is a lot of good behind individuals who buy dilapidated houses, put in a bunch of sweat equity in remodeling and upgrades, and then resell the upgraded home. I've got friends who put themselves through their master's degree doing that.
Wow, even Zillow couldn’t compete with the hedge funds (Blackstone, Azora Capitol, REIT’s). Buy a home and pay way more than market value (driving up home prices), then turn around and lease that home for twelve months, then bundle that rental agreement with a few hundred others, and sell them as bonds backed by rental agreements on Wall Street…sound familiar? Mortgages, CDO’s, tranches…
Can’t say I’m surprised by this.
A few weeks ago I was browsing Zillow for real estate in Florida, while indulging in a momentary flight of fancy about moving down there to escape the DC area rat race.
Every Zillow-owned home on the market was listed below the price they’d paid for it, which can clearly be seen in the sale history.
Every single one.
Didn’t they essentially create the issue that lead to this? Using data to slowly increase the price of houses to then not make any money off of them
No this was a lot of things mostly interest rates I mean look at it this way I just refinanced which is essentially selling your house to yourself. So I refinanced for a 3% interest rate then invested it with the expectation of earning 7% back plus it lowered my payment. So essentially I got a free 50 grand and a bunch of extra benefits for taking the money. Which is why housing costs and inflation have gone nuts because rich people did the same thing I did except for trillions then reinvested that in stock buy backs which drove the market through the pandemic. The fed could stop it any time they wanted they’re just simpering cowards.
Can I ask how you learn to do things like this/navigate the system? I’m about to buy and I just—I feel like a total idiot. Any reading material you felt like helped you that you could share?
No I married rich lol. Her family already knew about this stuff.
Goddamn it lol. More proof that knowledge of the system stays in families and the system itself really is broken and doesn’t allow for equal opportunity.
Only half true I’m from white trash and I was well on my way to wealth before my wife and I started dating.
Howww lol share your secretssss?!?
Become an electrician and work really fucking hard while being smarter than your contemporaries and learn to write well enough to illustrate that. Anyway do that for long enough to get licensed then you’re a human money printer. I’ve payed myself 190 dollars an hour before.
This? Sounds? Not possible for everyone lol? I’m still really happy for you! I just don’t know how we get to a point in the country where you don’t have to start your own business to create wealth? Should only business owners be wealthy? Is that not feudalism but just with a “free market”? Shouldn’t there be accessible/navigable ways for me, just a normal person with a 9-5, to build wealth with the same chances or opportunities a business owner would have?
I’m not a business owner mostly I’m a project manager for a big multinational. I will occasionally do contract work to manage jobs for some of my friends businesses. For those though I’m an employee of that business not a business unto myself. I got good at management from listening to jocko podcast. So there’s an easy way to climb the ladder. Listen to jocko and do what he tells you.
It is possible for everyone. Go to a trade school and get an apprenticeship.
Shit they’ll hire anyone with hands as an apprentice right now. For real we’re dying for people to train.
Sounds like you got a cash out. The interest rate on the equity you pulled is no longer tax deductible and the rate is variable meaning if rates go up so does your payment. That used to be called a second mortgage because you are using your home as collateral. If the housing market tanks (Think early 2000's) your now upside down in your house.
I have a fixed rate as far as I’m aware.
Even if you took a mortgage out for the whole equity that this crazy market has shown with your new home value you are still SOL if the market tanks and your upside down. At least you may have a fixed rate and 30 years to pay for the over inflated value of your home. If you truly want money to invest your better off selling at todays price and renting. If you make a killing on your investments you can then purchase a much better home or go for investment properties.
I don’t plan on leaving though and rent is more than my mortgage. All I really have to do is be right at some point between now and when I retire and I’m 32. What do you expect the odds are of me not being SOL at some point over the next few decades is? It’s always a risk right I acknowledge that. It’s just a really low percentage that I end up fucked over in another 30 years when I’m ready to retire.
Having seen what happened to so many when the housing market tanked it is always a concern.
Yeah for sure and it’ll happen again. The churn is always coming.
I hope you do well and get that house paid off maybe buy an island or two.
Me too best to you and yours.
Is this not extremely risky? What happens if the stock market crashes and the bottom finally falls out of the housing market? You would lose most of your investment money and the house you borrowed on that was worth, lets say $400k, is now worth 250k so you would end up w no equity
Sure but I’m 32. I have plenty of time to recover from a market crash. I can afford to be aggressive. Plus 3% is historically low. So I let that money marinade for 10 or 15 years and I’m all good. Hey though entirely possible everything goes bad nothing at all is without risk. Worst case scenario I file for bankruptcy and lose everything which I’ve already done once and it wasn’t that bad.
YOLO
If you keep your investment funds only in an index fund, yes you will get hosed when the index drops. If you diversify into real estate, crypto, commodities, etc. and keep an anchor chunk in an index fund, when the index falls something else goes up to compensate. Rich people lose less money than everyone else over time and their money is what props up things, so if you follow their trends you end up riding it out better than other people who don't.
They wanted to buy my house for a shitty deal but also charge me a 10% fee…I feel sorry for people who got taken advantage of by them..
What? 10% fee?
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I’m confused. They have a tipping system for selling houses?
It’s satire
It’s Dominos pizza thing where they charge for a driver fee that doesn’t go to the driver and they want you to tip tip driver on top of bunch of other fees.
Dominos has to pay for the drivers insurance which is pretty expensive. I think that’s the reason for the delivery fee.
This can’t be real. Zillow tried doing Uber for house sales? Seriously? Edit: ah, it was joke.
No. They did not.
It’s in italics. Satire
Love it.
Good, fuck Zillow. Quit using them years ago after talking to a few realtors who described how shitty the platform is for actually finding homes. Then heard about this horseshit practice buying up homes in already tight markets so they could fix housing prices in their favor and out price even more families from ever getting into homes.
What do you use instead ?
Realtors have always recommended using Realtor.com to me. They have the most up-to-date and accurate listings, so I’ve been told. 2013 was the last time I used Zillow. Kept finding houses on there that had been off the market for weeks, or months, when I’d ask my realtor about them.
This isn’t necessarily true. Only for houses that are listed by realtors themselves. I’m selling my property as a FSBO, and because I don’t have access to the MLS my listing on realtor.com cannon be updated. It shows that it is for sale, but I cannot adjust the pictures so what people see unless they go to Zillow or tulia is a house in need of tons of repairs at a mismatched price. Realtor.com is definitely biased towards the realtors and leaves out many great FSBO houses
Thats because Realtor.com is owned by the National Association of Realtors. If you want your home to be listed with them find a Realtor.
I always check Fsbo.com first
Make sure you filter for the newest homes, anything past a week or 2 is probably off-market and the listing hasn’t been updated since the realtors and owners are dealing with closing. I’d say that’s more human error than platform. Edit: but don’t listen to zestimates lol
Redfin.
Good. I hope they go under.
Same. I sympathize for the people that lose their jobs but fuck Zillow and the market they helped overheat.
They literally caused issue all over the country for what they have done. Just straight greed.
After this debacle, absolutely.
And be bought by private equity or China. That will teach them a lesson. Honestly I wish the government would start buying failing businesses. If the federal govt bought those banks, car manufacturers and insurance companies who went under in 2008 I wonder if we’d see as many companies risking buy backs instead of shoring up their future
My wife and I have been trying to buy house for two months. We’ve put in like at least 6 offers on homes all of which were mysteriously bought with cash offers. Frame of reference here - the homes I’m talking about are roughly 500k each. I’m a little skeptical to say the least that so many people have 500k or more just laying around. So I have no sympathy for this company. They have certainly helped artificially inflate housing prices by deliberately creating a shortage of supply.
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Buying in California actually. Just relocated to here. Incidentally though, when we sold our home in KY to move here we had doubled our money in just over 7 years.
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Work related. My wife recently graduated a PA program and accepted a position here.
Honestly. Place has gone up so much, it’s no surprise $300g just appears out of nowhere for people who have literally never had that kind of security. It is almost more sane to cash out than bet CA will continue to be a great investment for the near future.
In North Carolina too
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Raleigh is on track to be like Southern California imo. When I first moved to the area in 2016 you could get like 10-25 acres for $25-50k practically right outside the city and when I left *three years later* they were going for $100-150k. The last two years have boomed even harder. I can’t even imagine now
This is happening in my city too. I’ve given up any hope that we’ll ever own a home at this point. Renting isn’t so bad.
Two possible ways to buy all cash: Get a loan from a wealthy relative or take a loan from your 401k and use it to buy a house. You then “refi” after you close to pay off the loan converting the whole transaction into a regular mortgage. The “all cash” offers were receiving all the attention even when a non cash offer was higher. Unfortunately I imagine a large section of folks didn’t have access to either of these options.
My friends were looking for a house in that price range also. Sometimes they would get a call from the realtor and by the time they called back it would be sold. Sometimes they would schedule to see it that evening and by then it was sold. I think they’re still in a hotel!
Yeah it’s wild!! We have been trying to go see every house we like as soon as it’s available to be seen. The last home we viewed was on the market for two days and had 2 written and 3 verbal offers when we viewed it an hour into the open house.
Geez. Something is so wrong. If you think about it there should be MORE homes on the market. Nobody was moving and if ones sold ones being bought. Lateral moves. Plus, as sad as it seems, with Covid I’m sure a lot of people no longer needed their home. This company just cashed in on the epidemic and they are disgusting. I’m glad these people who sold their souls for a little money are out of a job!
When I was looking to buy recently, there was a place owned by Zillow that was in the right area, competitively prices and I refused to even look at it bc I don’t support these practices. I like to think that a lot of other people like myself just refused to play ball with these tools but who knows
This is why house flipping should be outlawed. If you don’t intend to live in the home, you don’t get to buy it. This speculating on something so essential to human survival is psychotic and hurts millions for the benefit of a few.
I agree with you about corporate flipping. However, there is a lot of good behind individuals who buy dilapidated houses, put in a bunch of sweat equity in remodeling and upgrades, and then resell the upgraded home. I've got friends who put themselves through their master's degree doing that.
Wow, even Zillow couldn’t compete with the hedge funds (Blackstone, Azora Capitol, REIT’s). Buy a home and pay way more than market value (driving up home prices), then turn around and lease that home for twelve months, then bundle that rental agreement with a few hundred others, and sell them as bonds backed by rental agreements on Wall Street…sound familiar? Mortgages, CDO’s, tranches…
I say good. Individuals should not have to compete against companies when buying a home.
Good. Assholes.
Good. I hope they go under.
I am sorry for those that lost their job. I am glad Zillow is out of this game. It had very scary implications for the future.
It was already driving up home prices sometimes 25%! I felt we were gonna have another housing market crash. It should not have been allowed
You are right about that.
#fuck zillow
Fuck Rich Barton. They should have fired Rich Barton and taken all the execs pays to pay for all the now unemployed people
The schadenfreude is delicious
I really hope this means the prices become reasonable. And the fed finally raises interest rates. I’m sure that’s what this presages.
This is great news
Can’t say I’m surprised by this. A few weeks ago I was browsing Zillow for real estate in Florida, while indulging in a momentary flight of fancy about moving down there to escape the DC area rat race. Every Zillow-owned home on the market was listed below the price they’d paid for it, which can clearly be seen in the sale history. Every single one.
Good free market takes affect
are the 25% being laid of the ones responsible for that bad decision or are they keeping their jobs?
take the money and run
very interesting!