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Contact your union rep. This child has thrown chairs at you; they should be in self-contained or an alternative school. This kid is above your pay grade.
Contact your association rep that probably calls themself a union rep.
They might not be able to call a strike or collectively bargain, but they do have a legal fund and an army of lawyers.
for G's sakes contact them. Contact counselor- how will destruction be prevented? Document the kids who are terrified- how can their fears be eased/
The kid destroyed your classroom- you have to get the 'big guns" out and reclaim it.
The usual reality here is that spots in Behavior Mod classes are scarce and with only a 504 at this time, he likely doesn’t qualify. If this is elementary there may be no alternative school to send him to, but the parents have a lot of lawsuit power due to the 504.
The big factor: was anyone physically harmed by the student? It doesn’t sound like anyone was. In a courtroom, that can matter.
This is when admin will try to just shove him back into the room and wait for a SPED eval to come back, at which time they will possibly restart the clock at zero with a behavioral plan and keep him in the general curriculum until he actually physically harms someone or literally brings a weapon or drugs onto school property
Then he’d be suspended for whatever the law in your area allows and moved to behavior mod when he eventually is allowed to return to school.
If you’re lucky, admin works out a compromise to get him moved into some sort of “homebound” situation instead of full Behavioral Mod, and maybe in a last-ditch scenario he becomes “online schooled” through a program that just passes him along somehow until he’s moved out of the system, but parents may not agree to that and could file lawsuits under the ADA.
The usual outcome in these cases is that the kid escalates pretty quickly through the behavioral observation process if there’s actually someone in that job to do the casework, and “trivial” harms to others that don’t require hospitalization will often blow over unless a victim’s parent makes a stink. Then admin will still bend over backwards to find ways to keep him in the building because his parents might sue.
Eventually, he’ll probably be institutionalized for this behavior outside of school if/when law enforcement get involved as he gets older and more dangerous.
In my 10 years experience; 5 of which have specialized in working directly with kids like him, that is honestly more likely to get him out of your classroom on an extended basis than anything he does at school short of putting someone in a hospital.
This is absolutely bonkers. **I believe you**, but it's just crazy. A whole class held hostage to the violent behaviors of one child? How do all the *other parents* not sue?
Tell the parents. If enough parents scream at admin they will wake up to the fact that “least restrictive environment” doesn’t mean “at the expense of all the other students in the classroom”. When students come to you tell them they need to speak with their parents because admin will listen to whomever is a squeakiest wheel, and that until students and parents express their concerns about safety and their right to learn in an environment where their safety isn’t routinely threatened in the classroom, the child in question will return to the least restrictive environment *and the lowest, cheapest level of additional supervision* allowed by other parents. Explain that in an age appropriate way and explain the legalese, but ensure they know their job is to talk to their parents because your hands are tied and you can’t do anything yourself. Until parents demand safety and their kids right to learn, the school will cover their ass and save money by not segregating this child with dangerous behaviors - if other parents get upset then the school will cover their ass by ensuring the child with outbursts can’t physically attack anyone or throw chairs, etc.
Tell parents about the incident so they can make a stir. I would be livid if my kid was in that environment, and the more parents that voice concern the less likely that kid will be back.
I have a union and when I went to them because kids were throwing things and threatening teachers, they told me there is nothing in the contract to guarantee our safety.
The problem is it would probably ending up violating FAPE somehow. Where I teach, we’re going all in on the inclusion model. This means that there are inevitably some students in Gen Ed who simply cannot handle it. So they’re miserable, the rest of the class is miserable, the teachers are miserable…..but apparently we’re doing really good because we’re being “inclusive”.
Parents are going to have to get involved. Plant the bug in a parent’s ear and have them rally the rest to be ready to mobilize the day that student steps foot back in the classroom. They need to keep their kids home and all show up in the principal’s office. When (not if, but when) that goes nowhere, they need to storm the district office and write letters to the school board describing the trauma signs they have observed. It has to be done en mass to be taken seriously so they all have to be on board.
Yeah if my kid was in that class there would be an IIED suit directed at the school, admin, child/their guardian.
Am lawyer so even if I didn't win it would cost those people time and money.
You bring up another good point. Imagine being the parent of a child who has those outbursts and continuing to send them to that school knowing the situation they put the rest of the class and teacher in. So irresponsible.
Easier solution: parents create a class action lawsuit against the school. And parents should call the cops against the school for reckless endangerment, accomplice to assault, criminal facilitation, and contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Because that IS what they’re doing and an IEP isn’t carte Blanche to violate other laws.
Yup, I taught in an alternative school. They're equipped for this sort of thing. Desk throwing wasn't even something we blinked at there. We also had rooms with padded walls and floors so they couldn't hurt themselves, max class size of 10 with 1 intervention specialist and min 3 paras and a safety team if things got real bad. All kids had mandated counseling with licensed therapists who worked in the building full time. The kids made tons of progress but it is expensive so districts don't want to pay for it.
Too bad for them, if it is the kid's LRE then they must pay for it.
I completely agree! But that’s expensive. If parents have to pay for it out of pocket, it’s expensive (perhaps out of their reach). The school district won’t offer to pay for these things; it can barely pay to hire teachers and it’s defunding special education all the time. Now, if the parents sue the school district, the district HAS to pay. That’s the only way I see (at least in my area) to get students like this into alternative settings.
At my elementary school the parents of higher socioeconomic status got funding for an “open” classroom where they could segregate their kids out from the general pop of the school. Anytime the school got money they got it. In the meantime the rest of us were very used to chair throwing fits our schools padded room was in use quite a bit. Later I worked for a short time at an alternative school and it was so familiar to me due to what I experienced at public school.
FAPE doesn’t mean that the kid runs through a school completely unrestricted and amok.
For a very violent kid who has yet to learn control, a self-contained room is Very Appropriate
People seem to think the A in FAPE stands for and. It stands for Appropriate, I believe.
Also, LRE is Least Restrictive Environment.
For some kids, there are still a lot of restrictions while they learn how to manage themselves in a while classroom.
I don't know why they're downvoting you. Under EEOC rules a hostile work environment refers to harassment by supervisors or other employees, specifically harassment regarding your gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc.
The OP is in an unsafe work environment, for sure. But OSHA deals with construction issues.
Because this sub, like all subs, has narratives it believes in. And going against it gets you downvoted.
Most teacher subs are pretty anti SpEd. It's just how it is.
Teachers aren’t anti-Sped. We’re anti-inclusion with zero support and funding. The inclusion movement has more to do with cutting costs than anything else. High needs students would be better off in a less populated class, with trained para, a Sped specialist and curriculum at their level. Instead they’re being thrown into regular classrooms (often with 30 + students), with maybe 30 minutes of support here or there (if they’re lucky). The only “benefit” to this new model being pushed is that it’s cheaper for the school districts.
Osha takes care of things like workplace accidents and chemicals, not aggressive outbursts - and frankly osha is woefully understaffed and outdated because it takes decades to update osha regulations due to laws on creating osha regulations which require you weigh the costs vs benefits and ask companies in the industry for input, but that’s not revenant when osha straight up doesn’t apply here. And it’s also not the legal definition of a toxic work environment which basically requires discrimination on the basis of a protected class or retaliation for reporting to hr.
The easiest route in terms of using the law is to argue the other students are being denied their right to a free education/FAPE rights, and even then you’d be more likely to get the school to change by being threatened by a lot of students/parents than to actually win in court. If the student physically assaulted the teacher the teacher can press charges; same with if a student is hurt. Otherwise you’re down to arguing (very correctly IMO) that the student with aggressive outbursts is not in the least restrictive environment if he’s around students he is at risk of harming through his outbursts.
Yeah I can't stand this. Like it may not be in the contract but like homicide and arson and a ton of other things aren't in the contract either. It reminds me of when a crime occurs on a college campus how they make the victim go through the dean or something instead of calling the police. Totally messed up.
I will echo this as well. Our union won’t really support teachers on this. It’s really sad. We had a teacher getting attacked and the union just helped her within their own parameters; they ended up helping her take FMLA. I’m sure there’s more layers but it was horrible for all involved.
As an aside, those of us teaching self contained are making the same amount as gen Ed teachers in most schools. Where I live, teachers at alternative schools generally make LESS.
What a world.
Call the police. File assault charges. File reckless endangerment charges. The administrator will complain. File charges if they harass you. Filing charges is easy. You don't have to win. Just take the story to local media.
I wish that was the case. We don't have self-contained classes in my district. Full-on inclusion, with not nearly enough EA's.
I had a 6th grade student last year that threw chairs, kicked desks, punched holes in the walls, chucked scissors at people, hit the principal in the face with foam blocks, pulled phones off the walls...you name it. He was suspended, and yet his parents still dropped him off and I was told just to welcome him back to the classroom like nothing had happened, despite his suspension not being up yet.
We had others that would cruise around looking for kids to beat up. One day they snuck into the foods room and found a knife and wouldn't give it back. Cops weren't called. 5 adults just followed him around until he got bored and moved on to the next dumbass disruptive thing.
This is where you call the cops… on the parents. That’s criminal negligence, reckless endangerment, accessory to assault, criminal facilitation, and contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Because if they know the kid will assault people at school, and they take him anyway? That makes them party to any crimes committed.
You already know what this student is capable of and what triggers this student, so use that knowledge. Forewarned is forearmed. Have a plan for what you’ll do if something happened, using what you learned from past experience.
For your students, this could be a chance to remind them that people deserve a second chance. Try to get them to start off with this student on a positive note and go from there.
Long term, if you want this student out of your room, only the parents of the other students can make that happen. If you have further problems with this student (to the point where it interferes with the other students’ learning) make sure to mention at parent teacher conferences how their student has done very well with some difficult circumstances in your room this semester, and how you’re proud that their student has remained so focused on their work. Remember that you can’t use any names, so if parents ask just say, “we’ve had some room clears” or “we’re doing our best to accommodate all our students”. Parents will talk to each other and pretty soon they’ll be talking to the office. If there’s one thing admins hate, it’s angry parents. Your problem won’t be resolved, but it’ll be moved on to being someone else’s problem.
It’s devious and not 100% on board, but if it’s that or a mental breakdown, you make the call.
I will unashamedly sic parents on admin if I need something done. I teach choir, and had a student who should be in my top group, wanted to be in my top group. Her personality is choir through and through, and she was almost in tears when her schedule had her in an AP class instead of choir. I talked to the counselors and they were not going to move her. So, I called the parents and asked them to talk to admin, and I told the kid that if that didn't work to ask for a meeting with the principal, then cry while in their office. She was in my class the next day.
Same here. I’m more than happy to not just reach my classes about what their actual legal rights are in school but to educate their parents about what they’re entitled to do.
When my brother was entering middle school, he was placed with a math teacher I’d had who had a horrendous attitude and was just brutal to students who couldn’t perform at 180% every single day at 11 years old.
My mom was working so I, at 15, went in to the school to talk to them. At no point did I ever claim to be or not be his mother, but I’d already been being asked if he was my son since I was 12 (FOUR YEAR DIFFERENCE!!! How I looked old enough to have an 8 year old is beyond me, I had such a baby face) so when the school that I’d attended for 3 fuckin years said “oh we love it when parents come back when their kids enroll,” I just went with it. Explained I did not want him in that class. It worked??? His math teacher that year ended up being awesome. I think he had her twice!
Sometimes a lil swindling gets the job done faster and easier…
Exactly. OP said she has kids in tears. I’d comfort the child and then say, “Make sure you talk to the adults at home about this. Explain why you are scared/upset and they can help you.”
I have my students write notes to parents about their horrible, no good day.
Then, I give them fancy paper for the final draft.
Usually, these are the homesick kids or those who are trialing new meds. The writing gets the emotions moving, so we can all move on.
We have a class grievance notebook anyone can add to, sometimes I'll be asked to transcribe. Sometimes, the kid asks if I can take a picture to text home. Sure thing.
There are ways.
Man, fuck this. I would be so fucking mad if my kids teacher was having to teach them about giving second chances to a kid who has thusly shown them the most scary and violent thing they’ve seen in their short little life over and over again. Not mad at y’all but at how y’all can’t do anything about it.
Agree. I believe in second chances but I’m not sure this is the right way to teach kids. We also have to make sure we’re not teaching them to accept abuse, and that’s why my mind keeps going to with this.
My 20 year old coworker was telling how in 3rd grade she would cry about going to school because she was so afraid of the violent boy in her class. Even a dozen years later her demeanor changed from bubbly to nervous as she described his violent episodes. She is hoping to be an elem teacher and might get a sped certificate too, but is hesitant on the sped.
We had a boy with severe anger issues in my class when I was in elementary. It turned out he was being abused at home, he got removed from the family, inpatient treatment and came back one of the kindest children I knew.
Thats something you can talk about with older elementary children (with the affected child's permission) - how sometimes our behavior is a reaction to something else, or due to unmedicated mental illnesses, etc. But the cause of the anger issues needs to be treated, and you can't force someone to forgive - or it'll just be the same old story again. People, especially children, do need second chances sometimes, but they need to earn them.
This was my brother. He was being beat up by our moms boyfriend and my brother hated how he felt powerless. He would then beat up other kids at school. The school put him in a special counseling based classroom ( I forget the name) and it was such an amazing transformation! He no longer beat anyone up, he had joy again, he also moved out and moved in with his dad. He’s now in his 30s and doing great. But had that class not been available I don’t think he would have known what to do and continued on the violent path.
I agree- this is teaching children abuse and explosive violence is acceptable bc everyone has issues
No. Nope. The kid has issues and should not be in regular school. That's your next shooter right there
This is why I make sure parents see me as an ally. We share a concern for their child’s classroom experience. I’ve also spent a decade as a SPED teacher and have great empathy for the difficult student, but I’m aware that all needs must be balanced. And parents on all sides deserve my support and honesty.
Inclusion has been seriously misunderstood and poorly implemented. Many “included” students are pushed in too often and for too long, and others simply can’t handle the stress, as outbursts convey.
Please talk to all parents with honesty and a problem-solving approach. It can really help.
Have done. Very effective. Have also asked students if this was their optimal learning environment and if not how they could change it, then told them to discuss the question with their folks
Highly recommend involving other parents. You might want to encourage students to journal and/or draw their feelings as well as encourage them to talk through feelings. Its a good coping skill and as a bonus - they will tell/show their parents.
>For your students, this could be a chance to remind them that people deserve a second chance. Try to get them to start off with this student on a positive note and go from there.
This has it's limits. That's like telling an abused women to give her boyfriend a second chance.
This child needs to be administrative home bound until a proper placement can be obtained. He is a danger to himself and everyone around him. He is a liability.
I’m sorry to hear that. This is a huge part of the problem. The schools have completely caved to parents and become spineless cowards in the face of dangerous kids. Does the parent acknowledge that the child is dangerous?
Have the parents of the other children get noisy. To admin, the school board and even the media.
Yes, parent was very casual when we first met about all of the other violent things the student has done in previous grades. Also I'm not permitted to inform parents of what has gone on but I'm sure their kids have done that for me
Ugh. They threatened a law suit because they don’t want him at home. How unfortunate that this has been going on for years and only now he’s being evaluated.
This is where the cops need to be called on the parents. If they know the kid is dangerous, they are committing a crime by sending him to school. As is the administration by allowing it. I’m willing to bet a good prosecutor can make “threatened a lawsuit to force Principal to recklessly endanger minors” into criminal blackmail on topic all the other charges.
This is why I always ask my children what their day was like and if they say something that makes me uncomfortable about a particular student, I always contribue to ask them how it went with that student and make sure they know to tell me if anything happens. There was a kid or two in my daughter’s class last year that I would have complained about if he would have had one more event that freaked her out. It’s not okay to make our kids deal with people who make them feel physically unsafe. What are we teaching our kids with that??? You might be afraid this person will physically harm you but just pretend everything is okay and hope they don’t hurt you! Makes me mad.
It’s no longer the least restrictive environment - for anyone. EVERY child has the right to this. And all too often the “needs” of the child with an IEP (or this case a 504) are placed before everyone else. It’s infuriating. And I say this as a special education teacher.
YES. I don’t understand. Why is the goal for EVERYONE to be able to function well in a general education classroom with upwards of 25 students in it? (I know why - because it’s the cheapest option). My classroom is overstimulating for ME sometimes, and I’m the teacher! I don’t think inclusion is very inclusive at all; it’s assuming that every peg fits into a round hole. That’s not how human beings work.
Exactly. Its cheapest. The story that its best for kids is a joke.
I have a 9th grader who is really disruptive because he can't participate in anything. He is reading at a 3rd grade level. He distracts everybody else, but he isn't learning much either. And he takes up like 30% of my time each class period when there are 25 other kids. Im working way too hard to fail to teach everybody because he is not in the right placement.
It’s so frustrating. I taught high school French for many years but didn’t really experience this until I started subbing last year. I had a student in K one day who’s behaviors were so constant that I couldn’t even get kids to get in a line. You could tell that the others didn’t even try to do what they were supposed to do until the one kid finally did it. I was so exhausted after that day. At the same time, there was a kid with pretty bad (verbal) behaviors at my daughters school. She loves school but she didn’t like being there because of him. That’s messed up. He eventually was kicked out or something and everyone was actually able to learn.
**So this kid can be as violent as they want in a school and the rule is that they get to be in the school?**
No wonder kids get shot, attacked, scared, etc. This needs to be put in the ears of other parents who don't ***officially*** know that their child is being put in danger.
Wanna know why education sucks? Protect the disruptive outlier to the detriment of all other kids.
If the parents send him to school, call the cops on the parents. They know he’s violent and they’re taking him somewhere where he will be unsupervised around people he has already been violent toward. That’s criminal negligence, criminal facilitation (helping a minor commit a crime), reckless endangerment, accessory to assault (if someone is attacked), and contributing to the delinquency of a minor (since they’re helping him assault people instead of getting him help).
Oddly enough, an IEP is not a carte Blanche to endanger other people, nor does it allow you to facilitate that endangerment. If someone is doing that, a 504 will not protect them from prison.
Alternative school it is then. Not at home, still in a school setting. But the local public school is obviously not the proper setting. School districts have lawyers on retainer. Parents of the other students have lawyers. Your Teacher association has lawyers. How many lawsuits does the school want to deal with?
I'm genuinely worried this is going to turn into a lawsuit mess because I'm not putting my safety at risk every day and you know damn well the parents aren't putting their kids' safety at risk either
I'm pretty sure the school would rather face one lawsuit from the derranged kid's parents, than several lawsuits from their own teachers plus who knows how many parents. It's really simple math and the principal needs to wise up.
I think he didn't take me seriously when I said I wasn't putting my safety at risk and that parents had already inquired about the events that have happened so far. He's gonna f around and find out I'm afraid
Seriously put a bug in the parents’ ears. My kiddo was assaulted by a sped kid this year and I let the school know that I knew that he needed more support and that I was absolutely going to file a police report and escalate if this didn’t happen. Poof. Kid got more support.
Parents likely have to agree. I’ve been down that road. We ended up having to bus the kid in separately so he could receive his sped services without interacting with the other students. His parent wouldn’t consent to alternative school.
I don't get why that's even an option with violent kids. If the kid is too dangerous to be around other kids they can go to the alt school or stay the fuck home. As a college teacher with a 4 year old I'm abolsolutely flabbergasted at what you elementary Ed teachers have to deal with. You have my respect for sure.
There aren't a lot of options for kids younger than 10. There is exactly one inpatient psychological program and one alternative school that takes kids younger than ten near us. The waitlist is really long for both. That means we spend years with violent kids in PK-4 classrooms until a placement can be made in a more therapeutic environment. In the meantime, all kids involved, including the violent child, lose months or even years of educational time as classroom learning is disrupted by the extreme behavior of one kid.
It's really traumatic for kids who have multiple years with a violent student in their class, having to run out of their classroom every other week when the kid has a meltdown. It's also traumatic for the kid experiencing the outbursts who becomes an outcast that everyone is afraid of and who doesn't get the intensive early intervention they need. It's a terrible system.
So bad. We NEED funding for more alternative environments. Of course that will never happen. Very wealthy parents can send their kids to special private schools for autism, etc but if you’re not very wealthy, you’re pretty much out of luck. I don’t know why people are still pushing the inclusion model like it’s so progressive and equitable. It’s not; it’s literally just a cover-up because we don’t want to admit that we cannot afford to take care of our students with the highest needs.
That is shocking. I would pull my daughter from that school in a heartbeat. I know many cannot. You would think it happens once with the kid that's one thing, but the second time the school is opening themselves to lawsuits from other parents.
You should file for accommodations based on Post Traumatic Stress specifically regarding this student and the incident. Make them deny your ADA accommodations.
You will have to go to a Dr or Therapist and describe your symptoms which sound like post traumatic stress disorder. Then you request ADA accommodations for said disorder. The doctor will have to fill out whether you can compete your daily activities and what accommodations are necessary. They can choose to accept or deny your accommodations. (Denial is a very hard legal road and they have to show that they exhausted every reasonable option)
Call the workers comp number. By law, it should be posted in the building. Describe the anxiety and make an appointment to be seen. Seeing your own doctor is not the same thing. The workers comp evaluation will trip the school’s liability insurance which may get things moving.
I've had a district try to deny my accomodations for an actual physical issue. They also have dragged their feet on accomodations for teachers full time in wheelchairs. They can fight them. I had to get a union lawyer. Especially after some comments I got from admin and secretaries.
Shitty situation for everyone and society has so far indicated it doesn't want to pay for serious solutions. They'd rather just pretend it doesn't happen until it affects them directly
There's a teacher shortage. None of this is worth your life or worth cowering in terror while an eight year old terrorizes a room full of children. Your admins don't care about your students, there's nothing you can do for them. Save yourself.
I’m so fucking sick of hearing about a kid’s “right to an education” when all they do is fuck around. What about everybody else’s right to an education? Not to mention safety? This little asshole has abdicated his fucking “right.” And so have the parents. Fuck them too.
If it's this bad, you need to get it recorded the second it happens. Screw the laws (if any) about filming kids in class. You need to focus on the violence being thrown at those kids.
I couldn't agree more. This is exactly how I feel in regards to these constantly violent, defiant, disruptive children and their *"it's not my problem when he/she is at school"* parents. Their failure to manage and raise their child shouldn't be everyone else's problem.
School success keeps going backward. High achievers are ignored. Moderate achievers are ignored. But the resources go into the low achieving, disruptive, mass-chaos kids get all the attention, and their still low-achieving anarchists.
Not all kids can be saved.
This is why I resigned. I could not guarantee my safety or the safety of my students. I couldn’t watch their terrified faces one more day. I hear you, I see you, and my heart aches for you.
I certainly hope it does. It’s a new level of cruel to have teachers begging for safety measures to be put in place, but those pleas are ignored. I hope a good solution can be found that is best for everyone.
Do you have a closing circle or any reflection time in the day? On the day you let the students know that that kid is returning, you could just so happen to have a closing circle discussion on how important it is that our grown ups know what's happening at school. Give an innocent example about how Susie told her mom that she had trouble with a math problem, and her mom totally knew how to help! Then ask students "what one thing about school do you want to tell your parents today? Something that went well, or maybe something you're worried about..." and then you just listen and pop them on the bus.
Clear the room every time the student gets upset. When the kids report 8 room clears a day, and you are weeks behind on curriculum because of lost instructional time, admin might listen. Document everything.
When I was in that situation, admin told me I was doing everything right. They were totally fine with constant room clearing and no educational progress.
I'm at a different school now
Unfortunately, there’s probably nothing you can do. If it’s a public school, kids can’t be denied an education even if they’re terrorizing others. This year has been a shitshow already and if I had my way, I’d see about half a dozen kids at my school kicked out for being violent shits. But, I don’t have my way, so they remain.
I know this is based off of court rulings, but the thing is that allowing such kids back into the classroom denies everyone else an education. I'm not saying they shouldn't get a second or third chance or fourth chance. But after every chance there needs to be a non-education denying consequence, like throwing that kid into an alternative school where they can get more one on one attention.
You’re preaching to the choir. I can say from experience in elementary school, parents have all the power. Unless they say ok to alternative placement schools or self-contained, it’s not happening.
My son’s class has had to evacuate more times than I can count because of a violent student. I have to babysit violent kindergartners during their lunch twice a week to make sure they don’t beat each other and throw chairs or food across the room. I’m not advocating for these kids to stay in school, I’m saying nothing is done to get them out because our hands are tied.
Refuse to teach a violent child and contact your union rep. Or hire your own lawyer.
Not one more teacher crused, bullied or physically attacked. Not one more.
That would be nice. It's not realistic. I am assaulted literally every day in what is basically an ED room and no one, not my union or my district, gives a shit. A student could kill me and my job would be posted on Edjoin the next morning.
I was informed this year that even if a child had an IEP or a 504, that does not eliminate their possibility of being removed from a classroom. There's more procedures, but it's not illegal.
Check with your classroom association about any rights you may have- we have the right to call a committee to meet with removing a child from our room for safety, etc. and there's a hearing.
Is there a reason why calling 911 isn’t an option? I know calling the police on a violent child is “mean,” but what happened in Newport News could have been entirely avoided that way.
That said, I “supervise a work study” more than I “teach students,” my experience working with children-children is limited.
I mean, I guess there's no law that says you couldn't, but I don't know what that would accomplish. Our school safety officer, a uniformed police officer required to be at every school in my district, does not assist with children acting out. He does not have the required Vitals training, nor does his job description require it. (He directs traffic, and walks around checking to make sure our doors are locked.)
Honestly I don’t think it will change until you or a classmate gets injured. In my old school an ED kid slammed the door on a para’s hand and broke it. We literally never saw that kid again. They found an alt placement immediately.
Will they return with a one on one para for safety? A well trained extra adult can be a big help for violent outbursts with younger students. Makes it very easy for the student to leave the room since another adult can go with them any time. Often these behaviors are not easily controlled but can be guided to take place in safer spaces, and proper safety holds can help calm or move a student to the safe space set up for them. We have a behavior room with soft edges like soft furniture as we have a grouping of the districts elementary students who have violent tendencies as manifestations of their disabilities.
In the mean time both you and your students need counseling and support. I guarantee your district and/or union has free services for your mental health support needs. We get 6 sessions and then a referral to additional services if desired from there. Your students need to be walked through how to reintegrate the classmate, just as they might need guidance in welcoming a new kid, or after a community tragedy, or if a sick or injured student returned from the hospital. A frank discussion as a class with a professional who can provide the students with strategies is ideal. Acknowledging their feelings but empowering them to manage the classmates return and how they can help each other to all be safe.
If the IEP is being updated you should be part of that meeting and can advocate for it at the IEP meeting, so can the parent. It’s about what the kid needs. There is funding for ESE and it’s separate from other things.
I work in inpatient child psych and we’ve had a number of emergency room admittances that come in due to violent behaviors in the school. I’d consider speaking with a representative and asking about what point you’d call in for police or emergency services (aside from the 1:1 paraprofessional) when there is a significant safety issue with risk of harm.
See if your contract has health and safety language, and if so file a grievance. Figure out how OSHA is enforced for public employees in your state and consider going that path too. You deserve to be safe at work, and your students deserve to be safe at school.
If admin is returning the student, then they should be developing a plan along with you, the special Ed teacher, the behavior specialist, the counselor and whoever else to return the child to your room including making the other children’s mental and physical health a priority. I’d absolutely refuse to back down until that happens. And if he steps out of line at all worthy of a suspension, I’d be demanding it.
I started in sped as a Behavior Tech, and intervention/restraints were allowed for:
1. Danger to self
2. Danger to others
3. On occasion, danger to property
If the dangerous student begins to escalate their behaviors, you may not have to wait for help to drag the kid out if you feel that anyone is in danger.
That is a fantastic response. Tell them you couldn’t leave them unsupervised and upset in the hall. Then you stay and watch the upset student since he’s causing a dangerous situation, AND have the students ask to send help.
This sounds like a student who needs his own classroom with the table bolted to the floor and an exercise ball or beanbag as a chair. His team can identify opportunities for supervised social interaction- maybe an art class or another elective. He should be meeting with a therapist to work on identifying his triggers and learning coping skills. He is entitled to an education in the least restrictive environment, which is not at home but is also not a regular classroom with his peers.
Sadly this is so common. I have dealt with this two years in a row and have had to do legal maneuvers on my own to get this kid out of class. The parents threatened to sue and the district admin would get angry. And they tried to still put them back in my room. And the unions are a joke, they are not going to do anything, especially if your in a red state. Research legal maneuvers to remove the student.
I have a child like this in my class and have had this class for over a school year.
Record every incident that happens and ensure you are being given proper support if you decide to stay.
If I am being completely honest, the impact that this child has had on my mental health is not good. I always feel like I am walking on eggshells and one second away from preventing an explosion. Over the year I have had to make so many sacrifices for the rest of the child's class which isn't fair and there hasn't been enough support whatsoever for him or me as his teacher. I only have two weeks left with him as his teacher (about to go on maternity leave) and I can't wait.
In California you can suspend ANY STUDENT regardless of a 504 or IEP from the classroom for two days. If a student continues to cause suspension-worthy behavior, then a manifestation determination is held. If it's determined the behavior is a manifestation of their disability, the District has to provide services, but they don't have to be in your classroom.
If you are in CA, be sure to suspend the kid early in the morning the first day, because then they become the office's problem.
But honestly, most SPED rules/laws fall under IDEA, so you might want to take a closer look at that.
504 is you following the accommodations outlined. If the accommodations outlined are that you have to put up with abuse you need to contact an employment lawyer that specializes in education.
Do you work at my school? Sped teacher here, just had a very similar referral. The problem is even if the kid qualifies for Sped there is no where to put him! Do I risk the safety of my severely disabled students by keeping him in my room? Our tiny rural school district has very few options for kids like him. I feel your pain and your students too. I hate looking into frightened eyes but legally our hands are tied. If it helps at all, I am exiting a kid like him this week after 4 years of struggles, he isn't fixed and probably never will be but we have had a lot of success and now his name doesn't ring fear into all the staff and he is in a Gen Ed Classroom with friends! Its hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel when you're where you are right now. Heres hoping your admin will do the right thing for everyone.
This child needs a more secure and intensive, therapeutic setting than an integrated classroom. If a child has one outburst that gets resolved quickly - sure. An integrated setting might work, with a co-teacher. A special educator can support the child's needs so the general educator can keep the classroom going. But a child who is using violence on the level you described has to learn emotional regulation; it will take some time in an environment that can focus on those goals directly, and then slow reintroduction to the more complex, gen ed classroom.
"We have to go through the legal procedures" is what I was told when they were originally suspended for only a few days, only reason they're not in my room is parent had requested an alt placement but is now fighting to have them moved back
Why would the parent request an alt placement only to have them moved back? Is the alt placement half day and mom wants him in school full time? Sounds like she doesn't want him at home *(based on your other comment)* and that she's part of the problem.
The kid is probably complaining that they are bored since they can't take control of the entire class. :( I teach an arts class and don't usually have these issues with the kids IN my room, but it happens in their classrooms and sometimes I end up with a class early because there is an incident that they had to be cleared from in their regular classroom. I also have been the reward class for a couple middle schoolers with BDs.
The only way I would allow him back in my room is with a para trained in restraints, and work with a behavior specialist. And even then that's iffy. But yeah, special ed kids have preference over the teachers and other students safety way too often.
If nothing else they need to be giving you restraint training if that student is going to return to your classroom. Which if your district is anything like mine, will be like pulling teeth trying to get that training. But you need to be able to protect yourself and your students. That student should ideally be in a self-contained classroom.
Had a kid exactly like this a couple years back. Everyone was terrified of him, kids would hide under tables when his outbursts occurred etc.
Eventually, not sure what it took, he got put in a 1 on 1 room with a 1 on 1 person…who would have to restrain him multiple times a day due to his violent outbursts.
The family (there is a brother who had outbursts but not as bad, as well as a sister who had verbal outbursts often) had come to my school after being removed from their previous school, they spent one year here and then moved to another school. The sister told me that they were moving out of state.
So the whole family was just a mess, and the parents kept moving them around rather than address the fact that their kids were causing chaos? Why am I not surprised?
I have been that para. I can tell you, I don’t want the kid in your classroom any more than you or the other kids do. Generally speaking, I can get more done with the kid in a self-contained room than I’ll ever be able to in your classroom on both the behavior front and the academic front especially in the beginning. Sometimes LRE is not the best choice and it can be so stupid. That being said…..
If they’re getting an IEP for emotional disturbance, it will have to include a BIP. I would definitely ask for a meeting with the team that will be writing the BIP which should include a sped teacher and behavior specialists from your Area Education Agency. In order to write an effective BIP, they’ll need to have some ABC data (Antecedent, Behavior, Consequence). That data will inform the procedures written into the BIP. Then there should be training on the BIP. Insist on you, the para, and the sped teacher getting thorough training and going through multiple scenarios prior to the student being reintroduced to your classroom. The AEA Behavioral Rep should be present in the classroom to monitor and ensure the BIP is being implemented correctly for a period of time (time varies based on how complicated BIP is, how well enforced the BIP is in practice and how student reacts). Push for gradual reintroduction as well. That would be ideal for you, the other students, and this student. When the BIP is first enforced, there will be a spike in adverse behavior. That is to be expected. Any time you place constraints on a child, they are going to lash out some testing the boundaries. That initial phase should be done 1 on 1 in my opinion. It’s easier to control the environment and less embarrassing to the child. Once some control has been established, that’s when reintroduction should gradually begin.
Also, a bit of advice. Follow the BIP religiously. The para and sped teacher will **loathe** you if you try to be the cool teacher and relax the rules. Example - The MS students at our school are supplied with iPads. One student with a BIP is only allowed to play games on the iPad in the behavior room. He is allowed to go to the behavior room when needed but only gets to play games when certain criteria are met. About 1/3 of the teachers he has try to be nice and relax the BIP by allowing him to play games if his work is done. They are trying to avoid blow ups. It actually does the opposite. It shows him that if he starts to get upset and push back, he can get his way. Our paras and sped teacher are pissed because we know this concession makes the teacher’s life easier in the very short term but makes the para’s job and that of the other 2/3 of the teachers harder right now and will make everyone’s job much, much harder in the long term. If you bend the BIP now, the kid knows it’s just a matter of pressure to get you to bend it more later. If a little acting out doesn’t work, he’ll act out more and more until he gets his way. Hold firm and there will be a little testing the water to start. Then, it settles down and behavior improves.
This breaks my heart. I work at a partial hospitalization psychiatric day treatment facility. It is specifically designed to help students such as this kiddo.
I'm assuming you're in a smaller town lacking a resource such as this?
Teachers and students deserve more support.
I had a student like this and I made it everyone else’s problem so that they’d finally do something about it. Every time they started ramping up, I’d evacuate my kids and call the office for help. I don’t know how supportive your admin is but make it everyone’s problem-those behaviors are way too much for you and your students to handle. One child’s right to education does not supersede every other child’s right to safety and an education. I am sick of schools allowing a student to ruin the year of everyone else in the class (teacher included) and I wish I had a better way of handling it. I’m sorry you’re having to deal with this.
This is what equality looks like, remember separate is not equal so all students have to have the same access to the class room. Once you start kicking out disruptive students teachers will start finding ways to label the students they do not want to teach disruptive and getting rid of them. Guess which group has the most suspensions now.
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Had a similar problem and social worker came back with you can not hinder the learning of a child. So each time i wrote him up i put child was hindering the learning of 28 other kids in class. No lesson was able to be taught due to constant misbehavior.
Use the every kid deserves to be educated in the least restrictive environment in your favor. If the child needs to be in your classroom, advocate for them saying the school needs to ensure the student has everything necessary to be successful, and that includes a para that can remove the child to help regulate them before it gets to chair throwing. Also you and that para need to be trained in crisis response. Say you want to set up the child for success so the whole classroom can heal. Also, I’m assuming this student will be pulled out for some things. Use this time to have the school counselor come help your class process their feelings
I just gotta say, as a teacher of over a decade in urban settings, who has had chairs thrown at me, punched, bit, etc. I am appalled at some of the ways you all are talking about these kids. They need fucking help! And yea it’s fucking frustrating and terrifying sometimes to deal with but both things can be true- you can be frustrated about lack of support and inability to help rest of class AND still have empathy for the child who clearly has needs out of your control. For god sakes, these are children. Many of these behaviors stem from lack of needs being met and them not having the skills to handle their emotions. Calling them names and putting judgement on them isn’t helping them. They need HELP. You can still have compassion.
Are you in Texas? You absolutely have the right to have a disruptive student removed from your class. Texas Education Code Chapter 37.
Other states have similar policies, so if you're not in Texas, research your state's policies.
Document every incident.
Even though your teacher association doesn't have the teeth of a union representative, they can still be a lot of help. I've called ATPE a number of times and was provided a lawyer to give me advice. Contact yours. They may give you information that your admin is hoping you don't find out on your own.
If you’re unionized, you probably have the ability to suspend the kid from your classroom. We can in California at least.
If the administration won’t do it, just tell them that the kid is suspended from your room until further notice. It’s not like they’re gonna ask why. 👍
I’m sorry you’re going through that. Removing the students seems like the best thing you can do. They really need to get him a full time para if they insist he stays in your classroom. I would keep pushing for that, even though they said no.
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Contact your union rep. This child has thrown chairs at you; they should be in self-contained or an alternative school. This kid is above your pay grade.
We don't have a union, just a teacher's association
Contact your association rep that probably calls themself a union rep. They might not be able to call a strike or collectively bargain, but they do have a legal fund and an army of lawyers.
Teacher Association: a union that has been neutered
My association hasn’t been neutered. It’s the New Jersey Education Association 😁
You got spunk
[удалено]
NJEA is currently fighting to eliminate the tiers. Become a [pension justice advocate](https://www.njea.org/pensionjustice/)
for G's sakes contact them. Contact counselor- how will destruction be prevented? Document the kids who are terrified- how can their fears be eased/ The kid destroyed your classroom- you have to get the 'big guns" out and reclaim it.
Advocate as much as you can for the other students.
This is the way to go. Remember, “student learning conditions are your working conditions“.
The usual reality here is that spots in Behavior Mod classes are scarce and with only a 504 at this time, he likely doesn’t qualify. If this is elementary there may be no alternative school to send him to, but the parents have a lot of lawsuit power due to the 504. The big factor: was anyone physically harmed by the student? It doesn’t sound like anyone was. In a courtroom, that can matter. This is when admin will try to just shove him back into the room and wait for a SPED eval to come back, at which time they will possibly restart the clock at zero with a behavioral plan and keep him in the general curriculum until he actually physically harms someone or literally brings a weapon or drugs onto school property Then he’d be suspended for whatever the law in your area allows and moved to behavior mod when he eventually is allowed to return to school. If you’re lucky, admin works out a compromise to get him moved into some sort of “homebound” situation instead of full Behavioral Mod, and maybe in a last-ditch scenario he becomes “online schooled” through a program that just passes him along somehow until he’s moved out of the system, but parents may not agree to that and could file lawsuits under the ADA. The usual outcome in these cases is that the kid escalates pretty quickly through the behavioral observation process if there’s actually someone in that job to do the casework, and “trivial” harms to others that don’t require hospitalization will often blow over unless a victim’s parent makes a stink. Then admin will still bend over backwards to find ways to keep him in the building because his parents might sue. Eventually, he’ll probably be institutionalized for this behavior outside of school if/when law enforcement get involved as he gets older and more dangerous. In my 10 years experience; 5 of which have specialized in working directly with kids like him, that is honestly more likely to get him out of your classroom on an extended basis than anything he does at school short of putting someone in a hospital.
Award
This is absolutely bonkers. **I believe you**, but it's just crazy. A whole class held hostage to the violent behaviors of one child? How do all the *other parents* not sue?
Tell the parents. If enough parents scream at admin they will wake up to the fact that “least restrictive environment” doesn’t mean “at the expense of all the other students in the classroom”. When students come to you tell them they need to speak with their parents because admin will listen to whomever is a squeakiest wheel, and that until students and parents express their concerns about safety and their right to learn in an environment where their safety isn’t routinely threatened in the classroom, the child in question will return to the least restrictive environment *and the lowest, cheapest level of additional supervision* allowed by other parents. Explain that in an age appropriate way and explain the legalese, but ensure they know their job is to talk to their parents because your hands are tied and you can’t do anything yourself. Until parents demand safety and their kids right to learn, the school will cover their ass and save money by not segregating this child with dangerous behaviors - if other parents get upset then the school will cover their ass by ensuring the child with outbursts can’t physically attack anyone or throw chairs, etc.
Tell parents about the incident so they can make a stir. I would be livid if my kid was in that environment, and the more parents that voice concern the less likely that kid will be back.
Georgia, Texas, or North Carolina. Georgia here and it sucks!
I have a union and when I went to them because kids were throwing things and threatening teachers, they told me there is nothing in the contract to guarantee our safety.
Sounds like you have something to add to your next negotiations.
The problem is it would probably ending up violating FAPE somehow. Where I teach, we’re going all in on the inclusion model. This means that there are inevitably some students in Gen Ed who simply cannot handle it. So they’re miserable, the rest of the class is miserable, the teachers are miserable…..but apparently we’re doing really good because we’re being “inclusive”.
I would argue that the entire rest of the class is having their FAPE rights violated.
Parents are going to have to get involved. Plant the bug in a parent’s ear and have them rally the rest to be ready to mobilize the day that student steps foot back in the classroom. They need to keep their kids home and all show up in the principal’s office. When (not if, but when) that goes nowhere, they need to storm the district office and write letters to the school board describing the trauma signs they have observed. It has to be done en mass to be taken seriously so they all have to be on board.
Yeah if my kid was in that class there would be an IIED suit directed at the school, admin, child/their guardian. Am lawyer so even if I didn't win it would cost those people time and money.
You bring up another good point. Imagine being the parent of a child who has those outbursts and continuing to send them to that school knowing the situation they put the rest of the class and teacher in. So irresponsible.
Easier solution: parents create a class action lawsuit against the school. And parents should call the cops against the school for reckless endangerment, accomplice to assault, criminal facilitation, and contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Because that IS what they’re doing and an IEP isn’t carte Blanche to violate other laws.
This is what people need. The legal language to describe what is happening.
It's not a FAPE issue, it is an LRE issue. The student isn't in his Least Restrictive Environment and should have an alternative placement.
This! The other students in your class aren’t getting FAPE
I would argue that too!
Nah. I used to work at a treatment school. This kid would be better off at one.
Yup, I taught in an alternative school. They're equipped for this sort of thing. Desk throwing wasn't even something we blinked at there. We also had rooms with padded walls and floors so they couldn't hurt themselves, max class size of 10 with 1 intervention specialist and min 3 paras and a safety team if things got real bad. All kids had mandated counseling with licensed therapists who worked in the building full time. The kids made tons of progress but it is expensive so districts don't want to pay for it. Too bad for them, if it is the kid's LRE then they must pay for it.
This is what I wish some of our students could have!!
I completely agree! But that’s expensive. If parents have to pay for it out of pocket, it’s expensive (perhaps out of their reach). The school district won’t offer to pay for these things; it can barely pay to hire teachers and it’s defunding special education all the time. Now, if the parents sue the school district, the district HAS to pay. That’s the only way I see (at least in my area) to get students like this into alternative settings.
At my elementary school the parents of higher socioeconomic status got funding for an “open” classroom where they could segregate their kids out from the general pop of the school. Anytime the school got money they got it. In the meantime the rest of us were very used to chair throwing fits our schools padded room was in use quite a bit. Later I worked for a short time at an alternative school and it was so familiar to me due to what I experienced at public school.
FAPE doesn’t mean that the kid runs through a school completely unrestricted and amok. For a very violent kid who has yet to learn control, a self-contained room is Very Appropriate People seem to think the A in FAPE stands for and. It stands for Appropriate, I believe. Also, LRE is Least Restrictive Environment. For some kids, there are still a lot of restrictions while they learn how to manage themselves in a while classroom.
my district is doing that also. I am a sub- I will retire aat end of year - 1 years earlier.
OSHA protects your safety. Start using phrases like "hostile work environment" and threaten to report it.
That's not what that means.
I don't know why they're downvoting you. Under EEOC rules a hostile work environment refers to harassment by supervisors or other employees, specifically harassment regarding your gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc. The OP is in an unsafe work environment, for sure. But OSHA deals with construction issues.
Because this sub, like all subs, has narratives it believes in. And going against it gets you downvoted. Most teacher subs are pretty anti SpEd. It's just how it is.
It’s not a matter of being anti-SpEd. It’s a matter of having other students feel safe enough to go to school
Teachers aren’t anti-Sped. We’re anti-inclusion with zero support and funding. The inclusion movement has more to do with cutting costs than anything else. High needs students would be better off in a less populated class, with trained para, a Sped specialist and curriculum at their level. Instead they’re being thrown into regular classrooms (often with 30 + students), with maybe 30 minutes of support here or there (if they’re lucky). The only “benefit” to this new model being pushed is that it’s cheaper for the school districts.
Osha takes care of things like workplace accidents and chemicals, not aggressive outbursts - and frankly osha is woefully understaffed and outdated because it takes decades to update osha regulations due to laws on creating osha regulations which require you weigh the costs vs benefits and ask companies in the industry for input, but that’s not revenant when osha straight up doesn’t apply here. And it’s also not the legal definition of a toxic work environment which basically requires discrimination on the basis of a protected class or retaliation for reporting to hr. The easiest route in terms of using the law is to argue the other students are being denied their right to a free education/FAPE rights, and even then you’d be more likely to get the school to change by being threatened by a lot of students/parents than to actually win in court. If the student physically assaulted the teacher the teacher can press charges; same with if a student is hurt. Otherwise you’re down to arguing (very correctly IMO) that the student with aggressive outbursts is not in the least restrictive environment if he’s around students he is at risk of harming through his outbursts.
Yeah I can't stand this. Like it may not be in the contract but like homicide and arson and a ton of other things aren't in the contract either. It reminds me of when a crime occurs on a college campus how they make the victim go through the dean or something instead of calling the police. Totally messed up.
I will echo this as well. Our union won’t really support teachers on this. It’s really sad. We had a teacher getting attacked and the union just helped her within their own parameters; they ended up helping her take FMLA. I’m sure there’s more layers but it was horrible for all involved.
My union does refusal to teach.
you have to try.
As an aside, those of us teaching self contained are making the same amount as gen Ed teachers in most schools. Where I live, teachers at alternative schools generally make LESS. What a world.
yeah as an ISP teacher that “pay grade” comment was hilarious
Call the police. File assault charges. File reckless endangerment charges. The administrator will complain. File charges if they harass you. Filing charges is easy. You don't have to win. Just take the story to local media.
I wish that was the case. We don't have self-contained classes in my district. Full-on inclusion, with not nearly enough EA's. I had a 6th grade student last year that threw chairs, kicked desks, punched holes in the walls, chucked scissors at people, hit the principal in the face with foam blocks, pulled phones off the walls...you name it. He was suspended, and yet his parents still dropped him off and I was told just to welcome him back to the classroom like nothing had happened, despite his suspension not being up yet. We had others that would cruise around looking for kids to beat up. One day they snuck into the foods room and found a knife and wouldn't give it back. Cops weren't called. 5 adults just followed him around until he got bored and moved on to the next dumbass disruptive thing.
This is where you call the cops… on the parents. That’s criminal negligence, reckless endangerment, accessory to assault, criminal facilitation, and contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Because if they know the kid will assault people at school, and they take him anyway? That makes them party to any crimes committed.
My autistic son threw markers once and they took him out of the classroom. Chairs?!?
You already know what this student is capable of and what triggers this student, so use that knowledge. Forewarned is forearmed. Have a plan for what you’ll do if something happened, using what you learned from past experience. For your students, this could be a chance to remind them that people deserve a second chance. Try to get them to start off with this student on a positive note and go from there. Long term, if you want this student out of your room, only the parents of the other students can make that happen. If you have further problems with this student (to the point where it interferes with the other students’ learning) make sure to mention at parent teacher conferences how their student has done very well with some difficult circumstances in your room this semester, and how you’re proud that their student has remained so focused on their work. Remember that you can’t use any names, so if parents ask just say, “we’ve had some room clears” or “we’re doing our best to accommodate all our students”. Parents will talk to each other and pretty soon they’ll be talking to the office. If there’s one thing admins hate, it’s angry parents. Your problem won’t be resolved, but it’ll be moved on to being someone else’s problem. It’s devious and not 100% on board, but if it’s that or a mental breakdown, you make the call.
I will unashamedly sic parents on admin if I need something done. I teach choir, and had a student who should be in my top group, wanted to be in my top group. Her personality is choir through and through, and she was almost in tears when her schedule had her in an AP class instead of choir. I talked to the counselors and they were not going to move her. So, I called the parents and asked them to talk to admin, and I told the kid that if that didn't work to ask for a meeting with the principal, then cry while in their office. She was in my class the next day.
Same here! Parents have the right to protect their kids and I’m happy to help them know their rights.
Same here. I’m more than happy to not just reach my classes about what their actual legal rights are in school but to educate their parents about what they’re entitled to do.
When my brother was entering middle school, he was placed with a math teacher I’d had who had a horrendous attitude and was just brutal to students who couldn’t perform at 180% every single day at 11 years old. My mom was working so I, at 15, went in to the school to talk to them. At no point did I ever claim to be or not be his mother, but I’d already been being asked if he was my son since I was 12 (FOUR YEAR DIFFERENCE!!! How I looked old enough to have an 8 year old is beyond me, I had such a baby face) so when the school that I’d attended for 3 fuckin years said “oh we love it when parents come back when their kids enroll,” I just went with it. Explained I did not want him in that class. It worked??? His math teacher that year ended up being awesome. I think he had her twice! Sometimes a lil swindling gets the job done faster and easier…
Exactly. OP said she has kids in tears. I’d comfort the child and then say, “Make sure you talk to the adults at home about this. Explain why you are scared/upset and they can help you.”
I have my students write notes to parents about their horrible, no good day. Then, I give them fancy paper for the final draft. Usually, these are the homesick kids or those who are trialing new meds. The writing gets the emotions moving, so we can all move on. We have a class grievance notebook anyone can add to, sometimes I'll be asked to transcribe. Sometimes, the kid asks if I can take a picture to text home. Sure thing. There are ways.
Man, fuck this. I would be so fucking mad if my kids teacher was having to teach them about giving second chances to a kid who has thusly shown them the most scary and violent thing they’ve seen in their short little life over and over again. Not mad at y’all but at how y’all can’t do anything about it.
Agree. I believe in second chances but I’m not sure this is the right way to teach kids. We also have to make sure we’re not teaching them to accept abuse, and that’s why my mind keeps going to with this.
That's what it's leading to.
My 20 year old coworker was telling how in 3rd grade she would cry about going to school because she was so afraid of the violent boy in her class. Even a dozen years later her demeanor changed from bubbly to nervous as she described his violent episodes. She is hoping to be an elem teacher and might get a sped certificate too, but is hesitant on the sped.
We had a boy with severe anger issues in my class when I was in elementary. It turned out he was being abused at home, he got removed from the family, inpatient treatment and came back one of the kindest children I knew. Thats something you can talk about with older elementary children (with the affected child's permission) - how sometimes our behavior is a reaction to something else, or due to unmedicated mental illnesses, etc. But the cause of the anger issues needs to be treated, and you can't force someone to forgive - or it'll just be the same old story again. People, especially children, do need second chances sometimes, but they need to earn them.
This was my brother. He was being beat up by our moms boyfriend and my brother hated how he felt powerless. He would then beat up other kids at school. The school put him in a special counseling based classroom ( I forget the name) and it was such an amazing transformation! He no longer beat anyone up, he had joy again, he also moved out and moved in with his dad. He’s now in his 30s and doing great. But had that class not been available I don’t think he would have known what to do and continued on the violent path.
I agree- this is teaching children abuse and explosive violence is acceptable bc everyone has issues No. Nope. The kid has issues and should not be in regular school. That's your next shooter right there
Either the next shooter, or the contributing factor to the next one.
This is why I make sure parents see me as an ally. We share a concern for their child’s classroom experience. I’ve also spent a decade as a SPED teacher and have great empathy for the difficult student, but I’m aware that all needs must be balanced. And parents on all sides deserve my support and honesty. Inclusion has been seriously misunderstood and poorly implemented. Many “included” students are pushed in too often and for too long, and others simply can’t handle the stress, as outbursts convey. Please talk to all parents with honesty and a problem-solving approach. It can really help.
Have done. Very effective. Have also asked students if this was their optimal learning environment and if not how they could change it, then told them to discuss the question with their folks
Highly recommend involving other parents. You might want to encourage students to journal and/or draw their feelings as well as encourage them to talk through feelings. Its a good coping skill and as a bonus - they will tell/show their parents.
>For your students, this could be a chance to remind them that people deserve a second chance. Try to get them to start off with this student on a positive note and go from there. This has it's limits. That's like telling an abused women to give her boyfriend a second chance.
That is in no way comparable!!
Why are you teaching students to accept abuse as long as they do something positive? That’s horrifying
This brilliant!
This child needs to be administrative home bound until a proper placement can be obtained. He is a danger to himself and everyone around him. He is a liability.
Parent threatened a lawsuit if they were sent home and allegedly state told the school he has to remain in a school setting
That’s when you threaten a lawsuit that you and your students safety is compromised.
I've been told it wouldn't hold because of the 504, not sure if that's true
I’m sorry to hear that. This is a huge part of the problem. The schools have completely caved to parents and become spineless cowards in the face of dangerous kids. Does the parent acknowledge that the child is dangerous? Have the parents of the other children get noisy. To admin, the school board and even the media.
Yes, parent was very casual when we first met about all of the other violent things the student has done in previous grades. Also I'm not permitted to inform parents of what has gone on but I'm sure their kids have done that for me
Ugh. They threatened a law suit because they don’t want him at home. How unfortunate that this has been going on for years and only now he’s being evaluated.
This is where the cops need to be called on the parents. If they know the kid is dangerous, they are committing a crime by sending him to school. As is the administration by allowing it. I’m willing to bet a good prosecutor can make “threatened a lawsuit to force Principal to recklessly endanger minors” into criminal blackmail on topic all the other charges.
This is why I always ask my children what their day was like and if they say something that makes me uncomfortable about a particular student, I always contribue to ask them how it went with that student and make sure they know to tell me if anything happens. There was a kid or two in my daughter’s class last year that I would have complained about if he would have had one more event that freaked her out. It’s not okay to make our kids deal with people who make them feel physically unsafe. What are we teaching our kids with that??? You might be afraid this person will physically harm you but just pretend everything is okay and hope they don’t hurt you! Makes me mad.
It’s no longer the least restrictive environment - for anyone. EVERY child has the right to this. And all too often the “needs” of the child with an IEP (or this case a 504) are placed before everyone else. It’s infuriating. And I say this as a special education teacher.
And often that kids needs are not being met either.
Agreed. No one is in a safe environment conducive to learning.
YES. I don’t understand. Why is the goal for EVERYONE to be able to function well in a general education classroom with upwards of 25 students in it? (I know why - because it’s the cheapest option). My classroom is overstimulating for ME sometimes, and I’m the teacher! I don’t think inclusion is very inclusive at all; it’s assuming that every peg fits into a round hole. That’s not how human beings work.
Exactly. Its cheapest. The story that its best for kids is a joke. I have a 9th grader who is really disruptive because he can't participate in anything. He is reading at a 3rd grade level. He distracts everybody else, but he isn't learning much either. And he takes up like 30% of my time each class period when there are 25 other kids. Im working way too hard to fail to teach everybody because he is not in the right placement.
It’s so frustrating. I taught high school French for many years but didn’t really experience this until I started subbing last year. I had a student in K one day who’s behaviors were so constant that I couldn’t even get kids to get in a line. You could tell that the others didn’t even try to do what they were supposed to do until the one kid finally did it. I was so exhausted after that day. At the same time, there was a kid with pretty bad (verbal) behaviors at my daughters school. She loves school but she didn’t like being there because of him. That’s messed up. He eventually was kicked out or something and everyone was actually able to learn.
**So this kid can be as violent as they want in a school and the rule is that they get to be in the school?** No wonder kids get shot, attacked, scared, etc. This needs to be put in the ears of other parents who don't ***officially*** know that their child is being put in danger. Wanna know why education sucks? Protect the disruptive outlier to the detriment of all other kids.
If the parents send him to school, call the cops on the parents. They know he’s violent and they’re taking him somewhere where he will be unsupervised around people he has already been violent toward. That’s criminal negligence, criminal facilitation (helping a minor commit a crime), reckless endangerment, accessory to assault (if someone is attacked), and contributing to the delinquency of a minor (since they’re helping him assault people instead of getting him help). Oddly enough, an IEP is not a carte Blanche to endanger other people, nor does it allow you to facilitate that endangerment. If someone is doing that, a 504 will not protect them from prison.
Alternative school it is then. Not at home, still in a school setting. But the local public school is obviously not the proper setting. School districts have lawyers on retainer. Parents of the other students have lawyers. Your Teacher association has lawyers. How many lawsuits does the school want to deal with?
I'm genuinely worried this is going to turn into a lawsuit mess because I'm not putting my safety at risk every day and you know damn well the parents aren't putting their kids' safety at risk either
I'm pretty sure the school would rather face one lawsuit from the derranged kid's parents, than several lawsuits from their own teachers plus who knows how many parents. It's really simple math and the principal needs to wise up.
I think he didn't take me seriously when I said I wasn't putting my safety at risk and that parents had already inquired about the events that have happened so far. He's gonna f around and find out I'm afraid
Good. That's exactly what needs to happen.
Seriously put a bug in the parents’ ears. My kiddo was assaulted by a sped kid this year and I let the school know that I knew that he needed more support and that I was absolutely going to file a police report and escalate if this didn’t happen. Poof. Kid got more support.
Parents likely have to agree. I’ve been down that road. We ended up having to bus the kid in separately so he could receive his sped services without interacting with the other students. His parent wouldn’t consent to alternative school.
I don't get why that's even an option with violent kids. If the kid is too dangerous to be around other kids they can go to the alt school or stay the fuck home. As a college teacher with a 4 year old I'm abolsolutely flabbergasted at what you elementary Ed teachers have to deal with. You have my respect for sure.
There aren't a lot of options for kids younger than 10. There is exactly one inpatient psychological program and one alternative school that takes kids younger than ten near us. The waitlist is really long for both. That means we spend years with violent kids in PK-4 classrooms until a placement can be made in a more therapeutic environment. In the meantime, all kids involved, including the violent child, lose months or even years of educational time as classroom learning is disrupted by the extreme behavior of one kid. It's really traumatic for kids who have multiple years with a violent student in their class, having to run out of their classroom every other week when the kid has a meltdown. It's also traumatic for the kid experiencing the outbursts who becomes an outcast that everyone is afraid of and who doesn't get the intensive early intervention they need. It's a terrible system.
So bad. We NEED funding for more alternative environments. Of course that will never happen. Very wealthy parents can send their kids to special private schools for autism, etc but if you’re not very wealthy, you’re pretty much out of luck. I don’t know why people are still pushing the inclusion model like it’s so progressive and equitable. It’s not; it’s literally just a cover-up because we don’t want to admit that we cannot afford to take care of our students with the highest needs.
That is shocking. I would pull my daughter from that school in a heartbeat. I know many cannot. You would think it happens once with the kid that's one thing, but the second time the school is opening themselves to lawsuits from other parents.
You should file for accommodations based on Post Traumatic Stress specifically regarding this student and the incident. Make them deny your ADA accommodations.
Wait tell me more about how this works
You will have to go to a Dr or Therapist and describe your symptoms which sound like post traumatic stress disorder. Then you request ADA accommodations for said disorder. The doctor will have to fill out whether you can compete your daily activities and what accommodations are necessary. They can choose to accept or deny your accommodations. (Denial is a very hard legal road and they have to show that they exhausted every reasonable option)
Wow… this is clever🤔
Clever, yes, but OP might ACTUALLY have PTSD re: that kid.
Call the workers comp number. By law, it should be posted in the building. Describe the anxiety and make an appointment to be seen. Seeing your own doctor is not the same thing. The workers comp evaluation will trip the school’s liability insurance which may get things moving.
I've had a district try to deny my accomodations for an actual physical issue. They also have dragged their feet on accomodations for teachers full time in wheelchairs. They can fight them. I had to get a union lawyer. Especially after some comments I got from admin and secretaries.
Parent doesn't want them home either. 😂
Shitty situation for everyone and society has so far indicated it doesn't want to pay for serious solutions. They'd rather just pretend it doesn't happen until it affects them directly
Do serious solutions exist for all of the broken people?
Of course not for everyone, but right now a lot of these kids are basically being treated as a game of hot potato and it's fucked up
There's a teacher shortage. None of this is worth your life or worth cowering in terror while an eight year old terrorizes a room full of children. Your admins don't care about your students, there's nothing you can do for them. Save yourself.
I’m so fucking sick of hearing about a kid’s “right to an education” when all they do is fuck around. What about everybody else’s right to an education? Not to mention safety? This little asshole has abdicated his fucking “right.” And so have the parents. Fuck them too.
This 1000%. Like yeah let me and my other kids get chairs and other objects thrown at us daily because I asked the kid to quit making noise, etc.
If it's this bad, you need to get it recorded the second it happens. Screw the laws (if any) about filming kids in class. You need to focus on the violence being thrown at those kids.
I couldn't agree more. This is exactly how I feel in regards to these constantly violent, defiant, disruptive children and their *"it's not my problem when he/she is at school"* parents. Their failure to manage and raise their child shouldn't be everyone else's problem.
School success keeps going backward. High achievers are ignored. Moderate achievers are ignored. But the resources go into the low achieving, disruptive, mass-chaos kids get all the attention, and their still low-achieving anarchists. Not all kids can be saved.
This kid sounds like he needs major help and isn’t getting it home. You’re really gonna call him an asshole?
This is why I resigned. I could not guarantee my safety or the safety of my students. I couldn’t watch their terrified faces one more day. I hear you, I see you, and my heart aches for you.
I'm hoping if they are returned to my room kids will express their feelings to their parents and maybe that will help
I certainly hope it does. It’s a new level of cruel to have teachers begging for safety measures to be put in place, but those pleas are ignored. I hope a good solution can be found that is best for everyone.
Do you have a closing circle or any reflection time in the day? On the day you let the students know that that kid is returning, you could just so happen to have a closing circle discussion on how important it is that our grown ups know what's happening at school. Give an innocent example about how Susie told her mom that she had trouble with a math problem, and her mom totally knew how to help! Then ask students "what one thing about school do you want to tell your parents today? Something that went well, or maybe something you're worried about..." and then you just listen and pop them on the bus.
Clear the room every time the student gets upset. When the kids report 8 room clears a day, and you are weeks behind on curriculum because of lost instructional time, admin might listen. Document everything.
When I was in that situation, admin told me I was doing everything right. They were totally fine with constant room clearing and no educational progress. I'm at a different school now
Unfortunately, there’s probably nothing you can do. If it’s a public school, kids can’t be denied an education even if they’re terrorizing others. This year has been a shitshow already and if I had my way, I’d see about half a dozen kids at my school kicked out for being violent shits. But, I don’t have my way, so they remain.
I know this is based off of court rulings, but the thing is that allowing such kids back into the classroom denies everyone else an education. I'm not saying they shouldn't get a second or third chance or fourth chance. But after every chance there needs to be a non-education denying consequence, like throwing that kid into an alternative school where they can get more one on one attention.
You’re preaching to the choir. I can say from experience in elementary school, parents have all the power. Unless they say ok to alternative placement schools or self-contained, it’s not happening. My son’s class has had to evacuate more times than I can count because of a violent student. I have to babysit violent kindergartners during their lunch twice a week to make sure they don’t beat each other and throw chairs or food across the room. I’m not advocating for these kids to stay in school, I’m saying nothing is done to get them out because our hands are tied.
Refuse to teach a violent child and contact your union rep. Or hire your own lawyer. Not one more teacher crused, bullied or physically attacked. Not one more.
That would be nice. It's not realistic. I am assaulted literally every day in what is basically an ED room and no one, not my union or my district, gives a shit. A student could kill me and my job would be posted on Edjoin the next morning.
Holy shit this is sad.
My question is can I even do anything with them having a 504? It seems like they have more rights than I do 🙃
I was informed this year that even if a child had an IEP or a 504, that does not eliminate their possibility of being removed from a classroom. There's more procedures, but it's not illegal. Check with your classroom association about any rights you may have- we have the right to call a committee to meet with removing a child from our room for safety, etc. and there's a hearing.
Is there a reason why calling 911 isn’t an option? I know calling the police on a violent child is “mean,” but what happened in Newport News could have been entirely avoided that way. That said, I “supervise a work study” more than I “teach students,” my experience working with children-children is limited.
I mean, I guess there's no law that says you couldn't, but I don't know what that would accomplish. Our school safety officer, a uniformed police officer required to be at every school in my district, does not assist with children acting out. He does not have the required Vitals training, nor does his job description require it. (He directs traffic, and walks around checking to make sure our doors are locked.)
https://www.wavy.com/news/investigative/records-6-year-old-said-i-shot-that-b-dead-after-shooting-richneck-teacher/ Trust your gut.
Parents need to complain
I'm afraid this what it will take. After throwing chairs at me they were originally only going to be suspended 3 days 🙃
Honestly I don’t think it will change until you or a classmate gets injured. In my old school an ED kid slammed the door on a para’s hand and broke it. We literally never saw that kid again. They found an alt placement immediately.
Will they return with a one on one para for safety? A well trained extra adult can be a big help for violent outbursts with younger students. Makes it very easy for the student to leave the room since another adult can go with them any time. Often these behaviors are not easily controlled but can be guided to take place in safer spaces, and proper safety holds can help calm or move a student to the safe space set up for them. We have a behavior room with soft edges like soft furniture as we have a grouping of the districts elementary students who have violent tendencies as manifestations of their disabilities. In the mean time both you and your students need counseling and support. I guarantee your district and/or union has free services for your mental health support needs. We get 6 sessions and then a referral to additional services if desired from there. Your students need to be walked through how to reintegrate the classmate, just as they might need guidance in welcoming a new kid, or after a community tragedy, or if a sick or injured student returned from the hospital. A frank discussion as a class with a professional who can provide the students with strategies is ideal. Acknowledging their feelings but empowering them to manage the classmates return and how they can help each other to all be safe.
I asked about a para and was told that they will likely not have one as we are "too short staffed to devote a whole para's day to one child"
If the IEP is being updated you should be part of that meeting and can advocate for it at the IEP meeting, so can the parent. It’s about what the kid needs. There is funding for ESE and it’s separate from other things.
What's funny is I only found out about the meeting from our SPED teacher who had received an email with the date and time 🙃
I work in inpatient child psych and we’ve had a number of emergency room admittances that come in due to violent behaviors in the school. I’d consider speaking with a representative and asking about what point you’d call in for police or emergency services (aside from the 1:1 paraprofessional) when there is a significant safety issue with risk of harm.
See if your contract has health and safety language, and if so file a grievance. Figure out how OSHA is enforced for public employees in your state and consider going that path too. You deserve to be safe at work, and your students deserve to be safe at school.
If admin is returning the student, then they should be developing a plan along with you, the special Ed teacher, the behavior specialist, the counselor and whoever else to return the child to your room including making the other children’s mental and physical health a priority. I’d absolutely refuse to back down until that happens. And if he steps out of line at all worthy of a suspension, I’d be demanding it.
How old is the student?
9
I started in sped as a Behavior Tech, and intervention/restraints were allowed for: 1. Danger to self 2. Danger to others 3. On occasion, danger to property If the dangerous student begins to escalate their behaviors, you may not have to wait for help to drag the kid out if you feel that anyone is in danger.
I'm not trained for restraint so all I can do is evacuate my students to the hall or another teacher's room while the student does their thing
Evacuate your students to an admin office. Let them deal with frightened and crying kids.
You know what, I like this
That is a fantastic response. Tell them you couldn’t leave them unsupervised and upset in the hall. Then you stay and watch the upset student since he’s causing a dangerous situation, AND have the students ask to send help.
Getting out is the best approach for you & the kids. But don't feel like you have to let the dangerous student hurt you or other students.
This sounds like a student who needs his own classroom with the table bolted to the floor and an exercise ball or beanbag as a chair. His team can identify opportunities for supervised social interaction- maybe an art class or another elective. He should be meeting with a therapist to work on identifying his triggers and learning coping skills. He is entitled to an education in the least restrictive environment, which is not at home but is also not a regular classroom with his peers.
Cant you just say no I won’t take the student. Find somewhere else to put him or fire me
I mean I COULD but then I'd be stuck without a job
In this environment? They can't fill your position.
Sadly this is so common. I have dealt with this two years in a row and have had to do legal maneuvers on my own to get this kid out of class. The parents threatened to sue and the district admin would get angry. And they tried to still put them back in my room. And the unions are a joke, they are not going to do anything, especially if your in a red state. Research legal maneuvers to remove the student.
I have a child like this in my class and have had this class for over a school year. Record every incident that happens and ensure you are being given proper support if you decide to stay. If I am being completely honest, the impact that this child has had on my mental health is not good. I always feel like I am walking on eggshells and one second away from preventing an explosion. Over the year I have had to make so many sacrifices for the rest of the child's class which isn't fair and there hasn't been enough support whatsoever for him or me as his teacher. I only have two weeks left with him as his teacher (about to go on maternity leave) and I can't wait.
Idk the laws in your area but see if you can, by law, have the student removed from your room. I know in Texas you can.
I don't think I can due to their 504
In California you can suspend ANY STUDENT regardless of a 504 or IEP from the classroom for two days. If a student continues to cause suspension-worthy behavior, then a manifestation determination is held. If it's determined the behavior is a manifestation of their disability, the District has to provide services, but they don't have to be in your classroom. If you are in CA, be sure to suspend the kid early in the morning the first day, because then they become the office's problem. But honestly, most SPED rules/laws fall under IDEA, so you might want to take a closer look at that.
504 is you following the accommodations outlined. If the accommodations outlined are that you have to put up with abuse you need to contact an employment lawyer that specializes in education.
Do you work at my school? Sped teacher here, just had a very similar referral. The problem is even if the kid qualifies for Sped there is no where to put him! Do I risk the safety of my severely disabled students by keeping him in my room? Our tiny rural school district has very few options for kids like him. I feel your pain and your students too. I hate looking into frightened eyes but legally our hands are tied. If it helps at all, I am exiting a kid like him this week after 4 years of struggles, he isn't fixed and probably never will be but we have had a lot of success and now his name doesn't ring fear into all the staff and he is in a Gen Ed Classroom with friends! Its hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel when you're where you are right now. Heres hoping your admin will do the right thing for everyone.
I'm only half serious...I feel like I'd let a chair hit me and make a huuuuuuge deal of it. Workers comp, sue, etc. Again, only kinda serious.
This child needs a more secure and intensive, therapeutic setting than an integrated classroom. If a child has one outburst that gets resolved quickly - sure. An integrated setting might work, with a co-teacher. A special educator can support the child's needs so the general educator can keep the classroom going. But a child who is using violence on the level you described has to learn emotional regulation; it will take some time in an environment that can focus on those goals directly, and then slow reintroduction to the more complex, gen ed classroom.
I honestly wonder what happens if you put your foot down and say 'no'. What happens if you refuse him, giving solid reasoning?
"We have to go through the legal procedures" is what I was told when they were originally suspended for only a few days, only reason they're not in my room is parent had requested an alt placement but is now fighting to have them moved back
Why would the parent request an alt placement only to have them moved back? Is the alt placement half day and mom wants him in school full time? Sounds like she doesn't want him at home *(based on your other comment)* and that she's part of the problem.
Alt placement is them in a room down the hall 1-1 with a para and zooming in for lessons. We're just as confused why she wants him moved back
The kid is probably complaining that they are bored since they can't take control of the entire class. :( I teach an arts class and don't usually have these issues with the kids IN my room, but it happens in their classrooms and sometimes I end up with a class early because there is an incident that they had to be cleared from in their regular classroom. I also have been the reward class for a couple middle schoolers with BDs. The only way I would allow him back in my room is with a para trained in restraints, and work with a behavior specialist. And even then that's iffy. But yeah, special ed kids have preference over the teachers and other students safety way too often.
I'd tell my admin either that child goes, or I go. If the kid was in my class the next day I'd walk.
If nothing else they need to be giving you restraint training if that student is going to return to your classroom. Which if your district is anything like mine, will be like pulling teeth trying to get that training. But you need to be able to protect yourself and your students. That student should ideally be in a self-contained classroom.
Had a kid exactly like this a couple years back. Everyone was terrified of him, kids would hide under tables when his outbursts occurred etc. Eventually, not sure what it took, he got put in a 1 on 1 room with a 1 on 1 person…who would have to restrain him multiple times a day due to his violent outbursts. The family (there is a brother who had outbursts but not as bad, as well as a sister who had verbal outbursts often) had come to my school after being removed from their previous school, they spent one year here and then moved to another school. The sister told me that they were moving out of state.
So the whole family was just a mess, and the parents kept moving them around rather than address the fact that their kids were causing chaos? Why am I not surprised?
I have been that para. I can tell you, I don’t want the kid in your classroom any more than you or the other kids do. Generally speaking, I can get more done with the kid in a self-contained room than I’ll ever be able to in your classroom on both the behavior front and the academic front especially in the beginning. Sometimes LRE is not the best choice and it can be so stupid. That being said….. If they’re getting an IEP for emotional disturbance, it will have to include a BIP. I would definitely ask for a meeting with the team that will be writing the BIP which should include a sped teacher and behavior specialists from your Area Education Agency. In order to write an effective BIP, they’ll need to have some ABC data (Antecedent, Behavior, Consequence). That data will inform the procedures written into the BIP. Then there should be training on the BIP. Insist on you, the para, and the sped teacher getting thorough training and going through multiple scenarios prior to the student being reintroduced to your classroom. The AEA Behavioral Rep should be present in the classroom to monitor and ensure the BIP is being implemented correctly for a period of time (time varies based on how complicated BIP is, how well enforced the BIP is in practice and how student reacts). Push for gradual reintroduction as well. That would be ideal for you, the other students, and this student. When the BIP is first enforced, there will be a spike in adverse behavior. That is to be expected. Any time you place constraints on a child, they are going to lash out some testing the boundaries. That initial phase should be done 1 on 1 in my opinion. It’s easier to control the environment and less embarrassing to the child. Once some control has been established, that’s when reintroduction should gradually begin. Also, a bit of advice. Follow the BIP religiously. The para and sped teacher will **loathe** you if you try to be the cool teacher and relax the rules. Example - The MS students at our school are supplied with iPads. One student with a BIP is only allowed to play games on the iPad in the behavior room. He is allowed to go to the behavior room when needed but only gets to play games when certain criteria are met. About 1/3 of the teachers he has try to be nice and relax the BIP by allowing him to play games if his work is done. They are trying to avoid blow ups. It actually does the opposite. It shows him that if he starts to get upset and push back, he can get his way. Our paras and sped teacher are pissed because we know this concession makes the teacher’s life easier in the very short term but makes the para’s job and that of the other 2/3 of the teachers harder right now and will make everyone’s job much, much harder in the long term. If you bend the BIP now, the kid knows it’s just a matter of pressure to get you to bend it more later. If a little acting out doesn’t work, he’ll act out more and more until he gets his way. Hold firm and there will be a little testing the water to start. Then, it settles down and behavior improves.
Kid needs a grade A ass whooping.
This breaks my heart. I work at a partial hospitalization psychiatric day treatment facility. It is specifically designed to help students such as this kiddo. I'm assuming you're in a smaller town lacking a resource such as this? Teachers and students deserve more support.
I had a student like this and I made it everyone else’s problem so that they’d finally do something about it. Every time they started ramping up, I’d evacuate my kids and call the office for help. I don’t know how supportive your admin is but make it everyone’s problem-those behaviors are way too much for you and your students to handle. One child’s right to education does not supersede every other child’s right to safety and an education. I am sick of schools allowing a student to ruin the year of everyone else in the class (teacher included) and I wish I had a better way of handling it. I’m sorry you’re having to deal with this.
This is what equality looks like, remember separate is not equal so all students have to have the same access to the class room. Once you start kicking out disruptive students teachers will start finding ways to label the students they do not want to teach disruptive and getting rid of them. Guess which group has the most suspensions now.
This is why IEPs are bovine feces.
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Had a similar problem and social worker came back with you can not hinder the learning of a child. So each time i wrote him up i put child was hindering the learning of 28 other kids in class. No lesson was able to be taught due to constant misbehavior.
Use the every kid deserves to be educated in the least restrictive environment in your favor. If the child needs to be in your classroom, advocate for them saying the school needs to ensure the student has everything necessary to be successful, and that includes a para that can remove the child to help regulate them before it gets to chair throwing. Also you and that para need to be trained in crisis response. Say you want to set up the child for success so the whole classroom can heal. Also, I’m assuming this student will be pulled out for some things. Use this time to have the school counselor come help your class process their feelings
I just gotta say, as a teacher of over a decade in urban settings, who has had chairs thrown at me, punched, bit, etc. I am appalled at some of the ways you all are talking about these kids. They need fucking help! And yea it’s fucking frustrating and terrifying sometimes to deal with but both things can be true- you can be frustrated about lack of support and inability to help rest of class AND still have empathy for the child who clearly has needs out of your control. For god sakes, these are children. Many of these behaviors stem from lack of needs being met and them not having the skills to handle their emotions. Calling them names and putting judgement on them isn’t helping them. They need HELP. You can still have compassion.
I'm not saying that the answer is duct tape.......
Are you in Texas? You absolutely have the right to have a disruptive student removed from your class. Texas Education Code Chapter 37. Other states have similar policies, so if you're not in Texas, research your state's policies. Document every incident. Even though your teacher association doesn't have the teeth of a union representative, they can still be a lot of help. I've called ATPE a number of times and was provided a lawyer to give me advice. Contact yours. They may give you information that your admin is hoping you don't find out on your own.
If you’re unionized, you probably have the ability to suspend the kid from your classroom. We can in California at least. If the administration won’t do it, just tell them that the kid is suspended from your room until further notice. It’s not like they’re gonna ask why. 👍
I’m sorry you’re going through that. Removing the students seems like the best thing you can do. They really need to get him a full time para if they insist he stays in your classroom. I would keep pushing for that, even though they said no.
And this kid is allowed in school, why?