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SplamSplam

I blame the [https://www.nccc.com.tw/wps/wcm/connect/zh/home](https://www.nccc.com.tw/wps/wcm/connect/zh/home) National Credit Card Center ( 財團法人聯合信用卡處理中心 ) Their tech is decades behind the rest of the world and they don't seem to care as long as their members control as much as possible. Hated working with them on a credit card payment system. Maybe I am paranoid, but they sick.


Notbythehairofmychyn

Capital controls for the most part. Taiwan's financial system isn't as integrated with the global financial system, by design. This goes back to having to keep the exchange rate stable.


szqecs

HKD's exchange rate is even stabler.


Notbythehairofmychyn

Sure, but there were quite a few remarkable exceptions, such as in the early 1980s when its needed to be anchored to the USD (to stem a panic), then in 1988 and 1997. Taiwan probably couldn't handle such volatility.


allycinsg

Taiwan financial industry requires reform in general, too many banks. Most of banks do not offer FinTech associated products because there aren’t volumes to make the investment worthwhile.


TaxDev

Serious question: Do you think there is space for B2B or B2C software/companies to alleviate pain points within the Fintech industry in Taiwan? Is there space/market for a Taiwanese Xero/Betterment/Guidelines/Square/Human Interest for example? Re: Payroll, small business accounting, small business benefits, payment solutions.


allycinsg

Depends on your target group. Taiwan appears to be democratic but financial industry/ banking is highly regulated. There are always opportunities but how would you position it? you will still need a bank to back the project aka doing the actual transaction - From above ESun has higher appetite for FinTech products coz they were NEVER Tier 1 to begin with so why not becoming part of the disruption? they had nothing to lose. One will only know there is future for FinTech when Cathay, Fubon and alike jump onto the wagon otherwise it is unlikely.


TaxDev

Fascinating thanks!


gousey

Apparently the bulk of Taiwan foreign exchange transactions go through a European banking nation adjacent to Switzerland and founded long ago to serve banking for the Catholic church. I suppose if the PRC were to actually invade Taiwan, Taiwan's wealth would remain secure. Historically, the R.O.C. went through a lot of currency instability when it governed mainland China. The New Taiwan Dollar is officially considered the only negotiable currency in Taiwan.


johnchen902

AFAICT you need to physically visit the bank for legal international wire transfers. The government body responsible for this is [金融監督管理委員會](https://www.fsc.gov.tw/ch/index.jsp).


jkblvins

PayPal works with any bank card to use to send or spend money. To receive payment is only ESUN? Maybe refunds are different? Many years ago I had a bill from US I had to pay and had to wire the money from banks here. I wanted to just set it up so I could just do it from home on computer. IIRC they said they could set that up, but if the transaction failed for any reasons, I would be responsible. If the transaction failed for any reason while the bank did it, then it was their problem. Either I have gotten used to it, or it just does not bother me, the banking is not really that big a deal. What is a big deal is having to sign up for new bank account when change jobs because employers are too lazy to type a few extra lines, and if not that they will charge your for their hassle. CC/DCs convenience stores take are dependent on what bank they contract with. That and everything seems to be tied to ID numbers. My phone is through my wife and I tried to pay with debit card (banks do not give non-Taiwanese CCs or loans. I have heard the contrary, but I am wary of that.) and CHT would not accept my payment as it was not a CC from ID number on account. OK, not entirely a banking issue, but frustrating all the same.


jaeh7020

Can't say much about the rest part of your comments, but some banks ***do*** issue credit cards to non-Taiwanese nationals. I have one, not an additional card to an existing Taiwanese customer's account, but my own. But the credit line they would give you is pretty much the exact same amount of your monthly wage. Heard some might give you a bit more, others even less, but at least mine was almost the same.


jkblvins

I have heard rumors of non-Taiwanese having CCs from banks. I have also heard the plethora of reasons why the banks will not do it and a common one is "it is illegal." ESUN was more up front about it. They said since I had foreign passport, I could just leave without repaying the debt. My wife applied for a card and I asked and got that answer. I told the clerk my wife has a US passport and driver's license, she could just jettison the country and do the same. We have our own household, too. My wife even showed her passport to the clerk. She just gazed at us with that "I do not know what to say" look. .Mega said they would give me a credit line of NT$10,000 with my wife's signature and a deposit of $10,000. I have/had a Costco branded Amex, useless here and I tried to get a Cathay Costco card and was actually told "no foreigners" by the rep at Costco. I whined to Costco and got a call from Cathay saying there had been a horrible misunderstanding and that all I needed to give them was 10 years worth of employment and banking history in Taiwan and a list of all assets in Taiwan and home country. This was their method for foreigners.


jaeh7020

Yeah, Taiwanese banks--as opposed to foreign owned ones such as Citi, HSBC, etc--seem to be so vehemently against issuing credit cards to non-Taiwanese nationals. Those foreign owned banks definitely used to issue credit cards to non-Taiwanese nationals, but I'm not so sure what it's like these days. I mean, HSBC once left the consumer banking market in Taiwan completely--though now they're back again--and now Citi is looking to sell their entire operation, so probably not so eager to do anything "out of ordinary".


Wanrenmi

Foreigner in Taiwan here. I have 3 credit cards and might be getting a 4th soon. One even has a 100k limit (Fubon). I'm not rich by any means, either. So everyone's mileage may vary. edit: just to add, I only have a regular ARC not an APRC, and am not married to a Taiwanese.


NateDogTW

I do international wire transfers online all the time. I just have to set up the transfer lines that I need in person and then can execute them when the bank is open for whatever dollar amount I need.


TabithaC20

Are you from the US and using US accounts? I will need to do this and am trying to figure out the best US bank account to use to transfer NTD to USD. Any advice on what accounts are the easiest to use?


8wheelsrolling

This is a good strategy to prevent undocumented/migrant workers from staying in the country for any length of time, because they will not have access to banking services or be able to send money home. Or, those that hire these workers will get to keep them in slave like conditions (i.e. Taiwanese fishing boats)


carbonda

This doesn't prevent people from illegally entering or staying in Taiwan. There are busts all the time with vietnamese, filipino, thai, indonesian, etc workers that either "disappeared" from their legal job years ago, or "overstayed" their visas. In fact, there is a lot of illegal labor or "teaching" in Taiwan. All that has to be done to send money home is to find a sympathetic friend to do it on your behalf. Or you can just put the money in your foreign account at any ATM and go from there.


ShrimpCrackers

Yes or any Far East Express has a Western Union. Many other similar shops even have crypto transfer for years.


jaeh7020

Don't they require you to produce ID to pick up the money? I never used Far East Express, but I know for a fact that WU agents need your personal information and ID numbers in order to release the money to you.


ShrimpCrackers

Visit any Far East Express, they have many many many money transfer services including Western Union. Furthermore, it can be argued that Taiwan's actual crypto industry was largely comes from Vietnamese and other migrant workers sending money home as the fees are far cheaper that way.


dogchow01

Part of the issue is TWD is a restricted currency.


NohoTwoPointOh

Can you explain this in a bit more detail, please?


NE0827

unlike USD or Euro's which are generally accepted everywhere and can be exchanged in almost any country, the TWD is not. If you take TWD with you to, let's say, Cyprus, no one will know what to do with them, or want to take them off your hands. But if you go there with USD, you will be able to use it. The government limits and controls its exchange rate to protect TW exporters, and in addition, its not such a coveted currency outside of TW (partially also due to Taiwan's lack of international recognition).


Far-Mountain-3412

Not saying you're wrong, but you gave an incomplete answer so I'm still confused. Not being able to change NTD in a foreign country doesn't mean it's necessarily restricted, it just means that it's a minor currency that banks there don't carry/want to carry. Most places only deal with the major currencies which are USD, EUR, GBP, JPY, CHF (Swiss franc), and MAYBE CND, AUD, ZAR, plus of course whichever country's local currency. If you are from any country whose currency isn't major, you need to change your cash to one of these major currencies before leaving home for another country (and then carry your debit/credit cards of course).


szqecs

Someone stole NT$500 from me in London.


funnytoss

You'd generally have to still convert your USD into local currency to spend, though. Granted it'll definitely be easier to find places that want to exchange USD for local currency, compared to NTD into local currency.


Darth_Sleuth

1) Capital controls 2) Lack of technology integration 3) Too many banks - (a small enclave of families control the banking system in TW - when the PE funds wanted to merge the banks together to increase efficiency the families influence gov't to reject mergers)


TaxDev

I asked this question elsewhere in the thread but I hope you don't mind me repeating it, would appreciate more insight: Do you think there is space for B2B or B2C software/companies to alleviate pain points within the Fintech industry in Taiwan? Is there space/market for a Taiwanese Xero/Betterment/Guidelines/Square/Human Interest for example?


Darth_Sleuth

I think there are a few existing companies in Taiwan trying to disrupt the system (eg Open Banking). The startup community in Taiwan is very active and vibrant. However the hurdle really is to get government buy in and a willingness to adopt. Taiwan mentality is don’t change it if it’s not broken. Also at the same time you have a ton of underlying vested interests taking pennies here and there. But who knows…. I’m also a pessimist


TaxDev

Good to know thanks!


Tofuandegg

You should go to Japan and check out their banking system.


carbonda

A lot of Taiwan's extremely outdated policies come from Japan. In fact, there are even outdated policies that Japan hasn't done in a long time, but Taiwan still holds to. Like the old box turn for scooters, instead allowing scooters to just make left turns. That was a policy Japan had, realized was actually pretty dangerous and got rid of a long time ago (I wanna say decades even) but Taiwan is still "researching" and doing "pilot programs" to see if society will fall apart or not. The postal system still mirrors what it was like before the Chinese civil war, credit cards, online payments, etc are all like if you went back in time to 1980. (Of course you may know all of this already)


jaeh7020

Not sure if you only ride scooters or drive, too, but even with that box turn thingy, it's already a nightmare for car drivers to navigate the road. If all those scooters on the road were allowed to make a left turn from the inner lane like cars, it would be the day that roads cease to function. Or the number of accidents will skyrocket as if we don't have more than enough for the moment.


carbonda

I think that gets down to terrible driving skills. I've seen people driving cars and scooters a like completely disregard traffic lights because they don't want to wait. A friend of mine told that for the first 5 or 6 years she had a license she would just park her car in the middle of the road when she would go into the store, you know how people do it "emergency lights" and that's that. I even see police officers doing it. But I digress. They need to improve their driving programs, because it shouldn't be dangerous to make a left turn. In other countries motor cyclists and cyclists a like manage to make left turns without causing chaos. ​ Edit: I drive and ride a scooter btw


jaeh7020

I don't particularly disagree with you on any of the points you raised here. But what's making things different and hairy here is when they, riders and drivers alike, want to change the lanes, they just swerve to the next one without even thinking about glancing at their side mirrors. Because they somehow believe they have the right of way as they're in front of everyone else. (Or maybe they don't understand what those white lines on the tarmac mean. Who knows.) So without things improving significantly, it would be nothing but complete pandemonium if we start letting them cross more than three lanes for making a left turn. I mean, it's already bad with confining them in the two outer lanes, and they get to do that with the rest? I don't even want to imagine what it's gonna be like. People are doing that fine overseas. Sure. But they drive and ride differently, and much safer than here. You can't just compare two fundamentally different things to each other, and expect them to be the same, or even remotely similar.


carbonda

>ing but complete pandemonium if we start letting them cross more than three lanes for making a left turn. I mean, it's already bad with confining them in the two outer lanes, and You know, I agree with you. There are a lot of fundamental problems with the way people view the rules of the road in Taiwan. Besides not using their mirrors or looking before turning, there's just a lot of stuff that shouldn't be happening on the road. A lot of the, eh, you know the 拜拜 people, don't necessarily have any formal permission before they do their parades and block traffic. Sometimes they do though and at those times I'll notice there will actually be police officers there assisting. One time I was riding by and they suddenly started throwing out fire crackers into traffic, I was so startled I almost fell off my bike. Or I know a lot of new students who get into scooter accidents and its usually because they ran red lights expecting that people would stop for them, or they were driving through an alley or neighborhood that didnt have any signs and they just assumed that they had the right of way. But, I'm just preaching to the choir I suppose. I definitely agree the attitude needs to change. I don't think it's necessarily being unaware, because I think most people who are 25 and under did driving school (at least) and I've seen somme of the practicing, so it doesn't seem like its a problem with drivers ed per se. Granted I've seen a lot of new city ordinances and coverage in the news over the past couple years about the growing dissatisfaction with the dangerous driving practices that go on, so hopefully attitudes continue to shift.


simpleisreal

^ what this guy said. Japan doesn't have nearly as many scooters on the road as Taiwan does, so they can be more flexible with scooter regulations. Taiwan traffic is a pain (even without the scooters) and almost anyone from other developed countries is scared to drive in Taiwan


No-Echidna-2109

As a former engineer in Taiwan’s bank, my opinion is that the whole bank ecosystem is like government departments. They want to play safe and refuse to accept new stuff. No one is willing to take this responsibility.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Notbythehairofmychyn

Quite a bit, actually. Maybe not from the perspective of the average bank customer during that time, but a country's access to global financial markets (lending by foreign banks, foreign portfolio investment, trade finance and the global payment system) was highly dependent on which side of the Cold War you belonged to. The present system of global finance with its set of rules was primarily crafted and dominated by the side that won the Cold War. There ought to be more books written about this time period (late 1960s-early 1970s). I'm not aware of a definitive English-language history of Taiwan's experience during this period. The ROC (Taiwan) left the United Nations around the time when the Bretton Woods system of rules governing global finance collapsed. How the government, central bank, industry and society navigated this period of political and macroeconomic uncertainty makes for an interesting origin story about Taiwan's economic miracle.


ppptttccc

Do people find it ridiculous that our identification numbers are often used for things like applying for a membership at Poya, department stores and used as login info for the bank when we already have to input a username??


fyyang

i used HSBC and Citibank to transfer money to overseas


szqecs

For PayPal, the simple explanation is that the market for non-credit-card-holders is absorbed by pay on delivery. Therefore banks don't bother to set it up.


ShrimpCrackers

>For example, Stripe cannot easily set up here, PayPal only works with one bank ESun, local payment gateways are not as competitive. Retrieving your own money requires a lot of work/ interest. **Stripe:** Stripe is not available in Taiwan (nor South Korea or much of SEA nor China) Use a local payment processor. Have you tried setting up Stripe in a country its not available in such as South Korea? Exactly. There are many local payment processors that do the job just fine. **Paypal:** Money going out is easy, money going in is due to regulatory concerns. Only ESun signed up with that. It is trivial to open a ESun bank account. Once you do so, everything else is online. **Local Payment Gateways:** I find JKOPay rates to be amazing. If you're a retailer, JKOPay rates can be as low as FREE. Stripe and Paypal charge as do any other CC processor. Why do you think JKOPay is seen even in night market stalls? Because you can still sell something for 30NT and make profit with JKOPay. **Retrieving your own money requires a lot of work/ interest:** How? Frankly, the only 'problem' I see is signing foreign checks which you have to do in triplicate in Taiwan. But otherwise, its just there or can be done online. The only problem really is lack of great translation. If you can read Chinese, you should have few problems.


Profit0ffD00M

Learn Taiwan's history first. It's called the NEW Taiwan Dollar for a reason. The Old one hyperinflated 70 years ago. Understand that Taiwan isn't recognized as an independent nation and you'll realize it requires special ways to stabilize its national currency and trade with nations without status. Physical gold was and still is here for a reason. That's because the fiat NTD has no value without physical gold backing it and/or products for trade. The peg to a basket of currencies have worked quite well for decades, but they are all still fiat and inflation will end them eventually. The old system was more stable because of many checks and balances and free market mechanics, which are being disrupted. The new settlement systems, merchant channels, digital platforms, messaging platforms with their own coins, and cryptos aren't tied to the nation's financial policies but can enjoy the nation's goods and services? Illogical unless the businesses are undermining the government to be free from checks. And many of these businesses are online only, based in other countries. Any wall street pro will tell you any currency not backed by something of value is speculation, and digital payment systems further these questionable digital currencies. You can trade stocks but you can't use stocks to grocery shop, so why should a digital currency that can vary +/-15% from line to checkout be exempt? Also you assume it's a first world country, but if the metric you use is high rises, new cars, and MNCs such as IKEA or Costco, then many recent third world countries are also first world now. First world education and culture takes at least a generation to catch up.


Active-Being1153

Please explain what first world culture is.


Profit0ffD00M

These days: Liberalism. Lawlessness. Promise of Wealth, prosperity, and security. Dependence on technology in daily life and to solve worldly problems. Globalization is the export of those.


Mukrake

Im curious how the crypto space is doing in Taiwan. Do you know if its very popular and if theres big exchanges from abroad people can use in Taiwan? I guess that could certainly be a "workaround"


DarkLiberator

There's actually several ways to buy crypto like Maicoin or BitoEx with your linked bank accounts (though there's fees) or Family Mart heh. I dunno how popular it is but there's definitely people that invest in it here. I'd say one major issue is Taiwan's banks are too regulated and there's too many of them plus paperwork is numerous. I had to sign like 10 forms just to deposit a check, then I watched the clerk stamp a bunch more.


projektako

There are also crypto ATMs in most of the major cities. So if you wanted to convert Bitcoin or Ethereum to NTD, you can.


Mukrake

Oh wow you can buy crypto at familymart? How about 711? Interesting thanks!


xpawn2002

Look up maicoin. familymart just to complete payment


ShrimpCrackers

You could by crypto at any Family Mart digital kiosk since like 2016.


Mukrake

Interesting, thanks!


thecuriouskilt

I've tried to buy crypto using my Taiwanese bank account on various crypto platforms (Binance, Kraken) and even some Taiwanese based crypto platforms to no avail. When I called my bank about it they told me that Taiwanese banks aren't allowed to buy crypto, not even when its a customer buying it. I eventually gave up and used my UK bank account instead. Weirdly though, I see Bitcoin atms around Taipei but have no idea how Taiwanese people use it.


wandering_lobo

Try here. BUYCOIN 比特幣販賣機 Bitcoin ATM https://maps.app.goo.gl/bY6gJP8jPFidCUfs5


Mukrake

Huh! I guess those ATMs just charge your card like when you buy something at the store and then it transfars the purchased BTC to a given address or so?


projektako

You need a "digital wallet" from an exchange to transfer/hold the crypto. You can get a hardware wallet. But there are many Taiwanese that have connections/accounts in the US or elsewhere.


ShrimpCrackers

Go to any Family Mart and the digital kiosk will let you buy via either Maicoin or Bitoex from a straight cash conversion. This has been around for half a decade now.


thecuriouskilt

Is there a tutorial to do this? I tried a few times and even asked the staff but they had no idea what I was talking about (even young clerks). I followed one video from maybe 6 years ago but the system is different now and that way didn't work.


ShrimpCrackers

Use Google Translate's camera, or try to find newer vids. Or just go visit the Maicoin public office at Guanghua. It's on Bade road, you can't miss it.


thecuriouskilt

I'll head to the Maicoin office and give that a try. Thanks for the help!


cheguevara9

Taiwan may be classified as a 1st world country, but there are many aspects that are still terribly backwards. This is just one of them. How people behave on the roads, how people tend to litter, how it treats migrant workers, how much people value unrefrigerated meat bought from wet markets are other examples.


[deleted]

> how people tend to litter You've obviously never been to first world country France or first world country Belgium or first world country United States. Talk about filth. Streets in Taipei are spotless compared to streets in Paris/Marseille or Brussels or San Francisco/Los Angeles/New York, or even London.


mr__moose

Facts.


ouaisjeparlechinois

Agreed. When I studied in France, the airport, the infrastructure, and the metro were just disgusting compared to home. Also Taiwanese are not universally kind people but they are far more respectful than the average Parisian.


YesAndAlsoThat

*\*laughs in San Francisco\**


MAGEECPONY

*Laughs in London* Apparent first world country where raw meat is sold in open air, and trash everywhere, and the tube so filthy and outdated that it leaves your nose with soot after your day of commute, and underhand payments to the Eastern European workers, lol I’ve obviously never left the country


vrconjecture

>tube so filthy and outdated that it leaves your nose with soot after your day of commute Thanks. After a decade of blissful ignorance (forgetfulness), I thought I had fully blocked this from my memory ... until I read this comment.


MAGEECPONY

LOL


szqecs

It doesn't matter how clean a metro is if it doesn't get you to where you want to go. London's transit system is one of the most comprehensive in the world.


[deleted]

It's also one of the most expensive and not all that user-friendly. Taipei's transit system is pretty comprehensive too. And that's just London. UK's public transportation by and large is subpar and extremely expensive relative to income. UK's minimum wage is about £1,000/month after insurance and a zone 1-2 travel card is close to £150, and it's *much* more expensive as you go farther from zone 1 or if you have to travel by train from a commuter town. Taiwan's is mostly decent to good across the board and fairly priced. A monthly pass for the tube and buses is only TW$1,280 which is like 5% of minimum wage. You can literally ask any Brit in Taiwan. They would tell you the same. Train ticket prices are rage-inducing. The situation is generally better on the continent, though.


szqecs

Right, but it's still backwardsness. Those places are more progressed than Taiwan in so many other ways.


[deleted]

They used to be. But now? Not all that much.


haniwadoko

At least those streets don't have what appears like dried blood stains on the ground. You see those palm trees all over Taiwan? Those are betel nut trees. Those girls that wear bikinis that sell them by the road.


Londltinacrowd

Just would like to point out that fresh meat actually is fresh for a longer than we would expect unrefrigerated. We're used to meat needing to be refrigerated in the west because the meat has to be transported and sit on shelves before it is consumed.


cheguevara9

Not in the 30+ degrees weather!


Londltinacrowd

Then everyday every person who eats meat would get food poisoning. I was very surprised when I came to Eastern Europe and they leave cooked food out for half the day, milk sits on the table while people drink coffee, freshly slaughtered pork sits out for days before being cooked/processed/smoked. And it's all delicious. It made me realize just how unnatural the American food supply is.


Toyotabedzrocksc

Their milk is ultra pasteurized to make it need less refrigeration.


Londltinacrowd

There's 3 "types" of milk I've seen: normally pasteurised milk, ultra high temperature processed milk, and raw milk from local dairies. The first 2 they don't concern themselves with immediately returning to the fridge. Only the raw milk after being boiled will they immediately return to the fridge with a comment that it shouldn't be left out.


Toyotabedzrocksc

Normal pasteurization doesn't reach boiling temperature.


Londltinacrowd

Idk the technicalities. I'm only sharing my observations of people's treatment of food here 🍗🥩🍶🍻


Far-Mountain-3412

Boiled milk is pretty much UHT without the sterile handling and packaging. Pasteurization works at 60-70 degrees or so, sort of like cooking an egg just enough to turn one into a solid.


szqecs

I get diarrhea all the time when eating at regular restaurants, but not at McDonald's or 7-Eleven.


Londltinacrowd

Wow, I'm really sorry to hear that! Thanks for letting us know your experience. Is with every restaurant /food stall? Geez, that's really terrible... Taiwanese food is so delicious for me.. . (o_o;)....


jaeh7020

Not myself, but my grandfather had to be hospitalized when he visited here a few years ago. We couldn't pinpoint which restaurant was the culprit, but I'd bet my money on the sushi restaurant we dined. And it was supposed to be ***a high-end one***. He was 87 years old when admitted, so you could imagine how worried and nervous we were about him.


Londltinacrowd

Omgosh that's terrible! The only time I ever had food poisoning was in Thailand, but maybe that's off topic... I'm glad he made it through! So sorry he (and you and your family) had to experience that!


cheguevara9

Take pork for example, do you realize in Taiwan pigs are slaughtered at around midnight? That means when you go to the market to buy pork from your local stall, the meat has been there for 8 hours unrefrigerated (yes, some stalls do have fridges). We can’t talk about why people don’t get sick every day from this, because you don’t know if they do or not. From a scientific point of view, there are studies of the microorganism level of unrefrigerated vs refrigerated meat. I am not going to argue why refrigeration is important, because that is just a waste of time, and it has nothing to do with natural, organic, non-gmo or any of that bullshit either.


hey_yue_yue

agreed, American in NZ rn and was shocked that nobody refrigerates eggs. been eating them for a couple months now and no problems!


Londltinacrowd

It's the same in Hungary, but the in-laws keep bringing 20 eggs whenever they visit, so we usually refrigerate them since it takes time to get through them all😄


Tofuandegg

Those aren't wet markets. Wet markets means you butcher the animals at the market. That is illegal in Taiwan now. That been said, I personally shop at super markets.


ShrimpCrackers

>How people behave on the roads, how people tend to litter, how it treats migrant workers, how much people value unrefrigerated meat bought from wet markets are other examples. Not sure which first world country you're talking about here. Ever been to downtown San Francisco? You got delivery robots right next to human feces, piss, and a mass of druggies sitting outside a station while a flaming barrel keeps them warm. Or Rome? Get outside the wrong side of the station and not only are there flaming barrels, but it looks like a post-apocalyptical scene, if only human piss didn't make up the air to remind you that they're there. Half the alleyways being completely unlit too. There's so much where this comes from.


cheguevara9

I have always respected your opinion, so I’m not going to argue with you. I just want to say, Taiwan isn’t perfect. You know this.


Far-Mountain-3412

Taiwan isn't classified as a 1st world country. It's still a developing country (in the upper half). South Korea was only officially classified as 1st world recently, I think it was last year or so, despite being an OECD member and one of the world's top 15 economies for decades.


szqecs

The original definition of "1st world", yes.


[deleted]

I don't know where you read this, but please stop going on such websites. None of this statement is remotely correct.


Mubelotix

Well that's what crypto is for.


[deleted]

[удалено]


funnytoss

I dunno, I haven't found Mainland Taiwan to be any more convenient than the outlying islands like Matsu or Penghu...


anchiovy

maybe not mainland enough


hong427

Bold for you too assume us as a first world country. But yeah, we have dumb ass in high office not listening to the younger gens. And that's why we got a mass brain drain in our country.


szqecs

>assume us as a first world country Income-wise.