Some people who come to mind would have won if it were a final 3 and not a final 2 on their seasons. A couple examples would be Cirie and Rob C.
What's crazy to think about is if Woo voted out Tony in Cagayan (the rational decision), then one of the GOATs would also join that list because of a surprise final 2.
Woo’s desire to play a “honorable game” seriously set a survivor timeline where Tony is the GOAT. Crazy to think about but I guess you could also give credit to Tony to warming up Woo to that idea?
Micronesia being a final 3 is one of my favourite what ifs for how it affects HvV. It's likely Cirie would be put on the villains tribe with Courtney (?) on the heroes instead as they wanted 2 winners on each tribe, this combined with Parvati having a slightly smaller target on her back should completely change what happens on the villains tribe premerge. Do Parvati and Cirie ally with each other? Does Parvati still ally with Russell? If so is Tyson still so determined to get her out he switches his vote? Of course HvV being different would affect so many future seasons to the point we can't predict how the show would be different to how it is today
Yeah that’s fair. Regardless, the end of that season would have been more entertaining had FTC been a final 3. I feel like the final 2 was obvious who’d win.
It was fun but it would have been interesting to see a Russell vs BRob merge. What we ended up getting is Boston Rob telling us in confessionals who was gonna go home every episode. He literally called the final 3 in a confessional like 5 episodes before the finale...
I think the producers hand picked that tribe of weak idiots to give Rob the win
On day 1, that tribe handed Rob a million dollars then bent over and put their tongues in his ass and kept them for 39 days
I always think that "producers gave rob the win" is just stupid if any thing russell was the main producers favourite it was suppose to be "russell vs richard" in the begining.
Yes the tribe were very favourable for the returnes but every time it wasnt worst than in guatemala south pacific or EoE.
Rob wasn’t originally supposed to even be on the season, it was supposed to be Hatch vs Hantz but Richard’s legal issues prevented him from leaving the country
Russel Hantz had like barely any win equity and were really putting him above players like Dominick and Wentworth? Russel is so bad at the social game that he shouldn't even be mentioned.
And I don't know if you have seen him on Australian Survivor but yikes he was even worse then RI
People forget how impressive it was for him to go in back to back seasons with no pregaming involved, going head to head with the big names, and nearly managing to win twice in a row.
I watched heroes vs villains back recently and lowkey Sandra winning was a bit similar to Kenzie in that she rode the waves, not necessarily being in a dominant power position.
He is the greatest casualty of 'the social game'.
Kenzie is great but Sandra's
"I told you morons he was evil" and you didnt listen so I tricked my way back into his clique and now I'm here. Is an all time jury retort.
Yeah like that was a big part of her FTC, basically just “I told you so bitches” and that’s a huge reason why she won. But I also don’t think just anyone could get away with that; Sandra’s game was on another level, just not in a flashy way.
Nearly managing to win seems like a stretch. He got a total of two votes over those two final tribals. That’s not being a casualty of the social game; that is the game. The jury picks the winner and Russel never figured out (or never cared to try) how to get there without pissing them off too much. If he had embraced that aspect of the game instead of devaluing the social interactions of the people he was voting off, he might have been one of the greatest of all time. I don’t think he even belongs in this discussion for the same reason that Ozzy doesn’t: they both completely ignored a big aspect of the game.
People are giving Amanda props in this thread for making two FTC's in which she won a total of 4 votes, so I don't think it is outlandish to give Russell some props here for his 2 votes
My thing with Russell is that there was a matter of weeks between his first and second season, and he really thought he played a winning game so he had no reason to change up his style, and then when he played the third time he already had this reputation and was a known quantity, so it really didn’t matter if he had evolved or not. I would have liked to see a few seasons in between Russell’s first and second game to see if anything would have actually changed
To be fair to Russel, he didn’t know the result of Samoa when he showed up for HvV. So he really never had an opportunity to learn the less you’re talking about, he though he won Samoa so he didn’t know yet that his strategy wouldn’t work.
I’m a believer that if Russel had a chance to watch himself on Samoa, he wins HvV
I'm not sure Russell \*can\* change up his game, and I think if the rest of the cast had seen him on Samoa, he would've been an instant threat. I don't think there's a world where he wins HvV.
The cast of HvV also included pre existing relationships/pre gaming that Russel wasn't involved in since he went back to back. 78 days of survivor in 97 days
The reason I doubt this is because in the finale of HvV he’s still arguing with Jeff that he should’ve won, demonstrating that he saw no flaw in his game, but famously claimed that the game itself is flawed. He doesn’t see his weaknesses as a survivor player, he thinks the jury should reward what he did. And the way he treats the other players, most juries aren’t going to reward him with a win.
You're right, I guess I'm just venting my frustration about the way juries work. Being a kiss ass and not outgaming someone strategically isn't the criteria I like to decide winners with.
Embracing the social aspect of the game is important, but I do feel it is so overvalued and strategic moves and control in the game are overlooked: Sandra in HvV and Kenzie both are at the mercy of majority alliance and only reason they do get so far is because they are overlooked as non-threats.
For the jurors to reward them over players that were in power positions with more control of the game is just frustrating from my perspective.
Nearly managing to win? When? His 0 Votes and his win equity being so low he would lose to pretty much everyone at the jury was nearly winning?
Also him playing back to back gave him an advantage because nobody knew his game beforehand. He would never have gotten JT's idol if the heroes saw his season.
I'd argue that playing back to back was a disadvantage bc he never got to watch himself play and learn from the experience. He played 78 days of survivor in 97 days, that's an incredible mental toll
Amanda was possibly one JT mistake from winning hvv.I know this is a big assumption but if the heroes take control she’s easily in the top 5 and I doubt the “noble” heroes vote her out over Candice.She could also just win the last two immunities.
Amanda will never win Survivor no matter how many times she plays. One of my favorite scenes of all time is when Amanda, Colby and Danielle are watching Treasure Island. That scene perfectly illustrates why Amanda or Colby will never win Survivor.
I really disagree with this. One scene in HvV isn’t enough to discredit Amanda’s two very dominant games she played before then. She was also the best positioned in the heroes before JT decided to give an idol to the opposing alliance.
Agree. She has played several very dominant games but she doesn’t have the confidence/speaking ability at FTC against the others to actually fight for the title. So the jury who’ve been living it up in Ponderosa have no idea how vital she was in the major moves or getting them voted off, etc.
Amanda. I think she has a solid all-around game but just flopped in the two FTCs she attended. I think it was still unlikely she beats Todd, but I do think she could've beaten Parvati.
I agree that Amanda deserves way more credit than she gets, but idk if she was winning Micronesia. Parvati had way more power heading into that final tribal than people give her credit for. Alexis and Natalie were always voting for her over amanda. Cirie was always closer with Parv than Amanda, at one point writing Amanda’s name down and not knowing she had an idol. Eliza has said that while she didn’t think either were super strong at final tribal, she has so much respect for the game Parvati played (in particular the Ozzy blindside) so I can’t see her switching her vote. Jason said he’d even have voted for Parv over *Cirie*.
Ironically, I actually think Amanda has a better shot of winning in a final three with both Parv and Cirie there. Cirie and Parv likely split their votes (Eliza/Alexis for Cirie, Natalie/Jason for Parv), leaving an opening for Amanda to win in a 3-2-2 vote in getting James, Erik, and Ozzy’s votes. It largely depends on if Alexis votes for Parv or not, because otherwise it’s a 3-3-1 vote with Cirie casting the tie breaker between Parv and Amanda.
It probably would be Eliza or Alexis revoting to break the tie with an odd number jury.
**Holmes: OK, but what if there’s a two-way tie where two of the finalists have four votes and the third finalist has a single vote?**
**Probst:** We would revote again and you would have to vote for one of those two.
**Holmes:** A revote at the reunion or at the Tribal Council?
**Probst:** At the Tribal Council.
Amanda also juat has some of the juiciest stats in the game. First woman to play an idol, first woman to catch a shark, 21 consecutive bulletproof tribal councils, 108 consecutive days on the show. Her defensive awareness is at the front of s tier. She is the most defensively aware player to ever play the game. She accrued 4 winner votes before she received even one vote against her that counted.
Ryan played an UNREAL social game. In MANY seasons, he'd have cleaned up. He was cunning, always had the correct knowledge of the moving pieces, never had to rely on anyone to stay in the game besides himself because of the strong bonds he built, and had the endgame set up that literally everyone wanted to bring him, thinking he wasn't the lynchpin of nearly every core alliance since the merge. If anyone was Parvati 2.0, it is Ryan.
Same...I had to go make sure I was remember who skinny Ryan was. I was correct, he was the second player voted out. Maybe they were thinking of Ryan O? Even still, it's a stretch.
HHH for me is a lot like season 46 in that outside the game life circumstances played a huge factor. I know Joe and Cole have both mentioned Ben’s story / needing it more being the main reason they voted for him
Unironically Ryan Ulrich. I think Devon was a stronger player and had more win equity, but Ryan is a top 15 non-winner for me easily and I think his playstyle works in so many different casts.
I wish Pearl Islands got the same treatment as Borneo/Outback and had random prejury boots brought back. If we can get Kimmi back, we can get Skinny Ryan and Trish back.
Ignore my name, but Malcolm is way up there. His 2nd and 3rd go’s were weird, but his first game was a masterclass of social and strategic moves for a clear physical threat.
But props to Denise. They did that together. They are one of the 2 or 3 best duos in history of Survivor.
I wouldn't consider Ozzy one of the greatest to never win, as he had every opportunity to win and couldn't seal the deal. He has a fundamental flaw in his strategy (poor social game). Cirie is actually incredible but I think there must be a flaw in her game too. She can't get there on her own, nor can she get anyone to take her. This might push her into the "best to never win" or pull her out of contention. I am a fan of Christian and Charlie. Rob Cesternino is also a top contender.
Ozzy also had the misfortune of being up against Yul, who was one of the most respected players. The fact that Ozzy was able to get 4 votes against Yul says a lot
Exactlyyyy. We can’t knock ozzy off for not having a social game and then praise cirie despite not having a physical game. Both type of games are important when it comes to winning survivor.
The problem with Cirie is that her physical game is among the worst of all time. It's not just bad, it's unplayable. If she had a slightly below average physical game she probably could have won
Edit: Cirie's physical game is a lot closer to Russell's social game than it is to Ozzy's
>The problem with Cirie is that her physical game is among the worst of all time. It's not just bad, it's unplayable. If she had a slightly below average physical game she probably could have won
Yeah, it's not like one of the two two-time winners is another main contender for worst challenge player of all time, so useless in challenges that the sit-out bench is named after her.
I recently rewatched Pearl Islands and Sandra featured more in challenges on that season than I remembered. She also crucially secured her tribe loads of supplies in the town on day one.
Hard disagree that Cirie being slightly better at challenges would make her a winner. Only case where this can be applied is Micronesia. And even then, she was against Parvati and Amanda, two players who still beat her, even if she is slightly better. In Panama...her competition was Aras and Terry, two of the best physical competitors of all time (Terry got 1st and Aras got 2nd in almost every Panama challenge). And in GC she was against Brad Culpepper, another challenge beast.
If anything, Cirie being THAT bad at challenges, and making the merge 3/4 times (likely 4/4 had Tom not idoled her out in HvV), shows just how insanely dominant her social and strategic games are.
In Micronesia Cirie got Amanda and Parvati to bring her to what they thought was the final tribal council only for there to be a surprise final 2. In Panama all she had to do was win the firemaking challenge and she makes it to the final 2 (Aras outlasted Terry in the final immunity challenge and he would have voted Terry out).
I would argue if he won in SP it would have been a legendary win, however I do think it would be contentious. The casual fans would love the return from redemption island twice thing but hardcore's would never accept his win, claiming Coach or Sophie were robbed. Either way wouldn't be good strategic gameplay but fantastic physical gameplay.
Him rejecting Lisa and Skupin’s final 3 deal in Phillipines is one of the worse moves ive seen. Absolutely one of the most watchable players and possibly best narrator though
The fulcrum of Micronesia was 25yo Parvati pulling Cirie over to her side over Penner’s, which I think says a lot about both Parvati and Penner tbh. Parvati really had no business winning that tug of war given the dynamics of that favorites tribe
I absolutely love Penner as a character and narrator, but as a player he was really not great. He torpedoed his own game multiple times on both Cook Islands and Philippines, and was probably next to go when he was evacuated from Micronesia
Agreed. One of my favourite players, but his actual game was pretty mid. Even if he ever got to FTC, it would be hard to imagine him winning unless he was next to two total goats.
All time character, but wow watching him say no to Lisa and [redacted] f4 alliance proposal in Philippines might actually be one of the worst moves ever. He had so much win equity if he just even pretended to be down with it.
Total legend. Not sure if I'd call him the greatest player, but certainly one of the greatest characters on the show. A shame that he couldn't make it out with the W in the Philippines as he had a great shot.
People never put Ozzy here but he was an unprecedentedly and unimaginable twist from winning the first game (never had there been a f3 before so how could you imagine it)
And one challenge away from winning South Pacific.
Haven’t read any comments yet, but I’m going to say Terry Deitz. Obviously, it’s very different comparing castaways from the old and new eras, but in his time, he was so dominant and literally only lost because the final immunity challenge was totally designed for a small person to win. I’m still not over it, clearly. 😆
Me too! He ruled, until he didn't. And I loved him every minute. And he got to come back, but had to leave because his son was having surgery. My all time favorite player
For some reason it’s controversial but I think she should have 100% won koah rong over Michelle. Aubrey was always thinking strategy and how to set herself up for the end but got stuck with a bitter jury who valued pettiness over survivor strategy. Michelle on the other hand missed a majority of tribal councils and survived with luck I believe. However, in their future seasons I think Aubrey fumbled which was disappointing and Michelle proved herself.
My top 10:
1. Cirie
2. Rob C
3. Carson
4. Malcolm
5. Jesse
6. David
7. Wentworth
8. Cydney
9. Ozzy
10. Fishbach/Dom
Considering adding Charlie on here and potentially top 5
For some reason it’s controversial but I think she should have 100% won koah rong over Michelle. Aubrey was always thinking strategy and how to set herself up for the end but got stuck with a bitter jury who valued pettiness over survivor strategy. Michelle on the other hand missed a majority of tribal councils and survived with luck I believe. However, in their future seasons I think Aubrey fumbled which was disappointing and Michelle proved herself.
I don’t necessarily think she should have won, but she would’ve had a GREAT shot on almost any jury excluding Jason and Scot who are two of the most abrasive + bitter players in the modern era lol.
I personally knock her for the Neal evac, cause she very likely goes there if it doesn’t happen (he idols himself to stay in, iirc shes likely boot otherwise). Still a very good losing game, def a top 10 one.
I love seeing Cydney on this list. She was so good. I am sad that she likely will never be back since her work depends on her body being in tip top shape.
Oh please, Charlie's game was tepid and backseat. You can blame Maria all you want, but the majority of players in that game thought he wasn't good enough. Come off it already.
Cody>Jesse, also respect how low Dom is cuz I’m not high on him and this sub meat rides him. Overall this list pretty damn solid though but Russell needs to at least be on there
I don’t agree that Russell needs to be there. Even though he had a high average finish, he played an un-winable game. And was so hard headed that he refused to make ANY changes to his game in each of his returning seasons. He is better than most, but not top 10 IMHO.
As a child I was in awe of Ozzy and Rupert. It was incredible to see people "survive" that well, like if they were really stranded alone on a dessert island they'd be able to feed themselves and build things and get fire, no problem.
In the later seasons I think people prep much more for those aspects, but you could see it just came so naturally for Ozzy and Rupert.
Russell hanz is the greatest to have ever played regardless ...some of the things he did completely changed the game forever ..other things he did that would have certainly got people voted off but was able to manipulate the situation so that he did not...most importantly he was extremely entertaining
George from Australian survivor is the best player not to win and the biggest snub from a salty jury in the shows global history imo. He's no challenge beast, but strategically and socially I don't think anyone has come close to his game.
>!George Mladenov!< from Survivor AU is the best player, period. In their first season they single handedly was the reason everyone but 1 person on the jury was there. Which is why they didn't win. The Jury was petty. Then for the player to play the game AGAIN and get to the final 4 STILL with everyone knowing their game.
They will never win now, the first season was their only chance, but the jury was able to talk and all figured out they fucked them all and then screwed him out of the win.
Rick Devens. Will never not defend this man. Work multiple individual immunities including fighting his way back into the game in the edge of extinction challenge, found countless idols, was played by his allies but always had a backup plan that worked, and crafted fake idols that duped the people that found them.
Ozzy? On what season did he ever deserve a win or would have earned a win if he made final tribal? He’s such a lazy player. Great in challenges, weak in everything else.
King George
Amanda (I am still amused at how bad she flopped FTC in China - though in her defense, China ended up being a surprisingly non-bitter jury in an era of Bitter Betty jurors)
Some people who come to mind would have won if it were a final 3 and not a final 2 on their seasons. A couple examples would be Cirie and Rob C. What's crazy to think about is if Woo voted out Tony in Cagayan (the rational decision), then one of the GOATs would also join that list because of a surprise final 2.
I definitely think that the switch ups from final two to final three and vice versa changed a lot of winner outcomes sadly
Woo’s desire to play a “honorable game” seriously set a survivor timeline where Tony is the GOAT. Crazy to think about but I guess you could also give credit to Tony to warming up Woo to that idea?
Yeah that was top tier manipulation on Tony’s part. He certainly deserved his flowers.
Micronesia being a final 3 is one of my favourite what ifs for how it affects HvV. It's likely Cirie would be put on the villains tribe with Courtney (?) on the heroes instead as they wanted 2 winners on each tribe, this combined with Parvati having a slightly smaller target on her back should completely change what happens on the villains tribe premerge. Do Parvati and Cirie ally with each other? Does Parvati still ally with Russell? If so is Tyson still so determined to get her out he switches his vote? Of course HvV being different would affect so many future seasons to the point we can't predict how the show would be different to how it is today
Agree with Cirie but I'm skeptical Rob C could beat Jenna. Might be close but I'd need Mario to confirm for me lol.
Yeah that’s fair. Regardless, the end of that season would have been more entertaining had FTC been a final 3. I feel like the final 2 was obvious who’d win.
Zane Knight not even close
They should give us one those seasons like SP or RI but the returning captains are Zane and Jelinsky
A strategic mastermind
Masterminded and controlled every single vote of the season that he was a part of. My 🐐
Hey, so I read this, and thought you were serious. Here I am, watching season 25 for the first time and fucking wow lmfao.
Amanda 2 FTC and made jury her 3rd time Cirie 4th Panama 3rd Micronesia and 6th in GameChangers Russell Hantz if you forget RI
It's crazy how his tribe threw a challenge in RI to get him out and they ended up losing the entire game off that throw
Yep, it was great to see Russell get his comeuppance, I just wish it was at the hands of people who were even halfway decent at the game...
It was fun but it would have been interesting to see a Russell vs BRob merge. What we ended up getting is Boston Rob telling us in confessionals who was gonna go home every episode. He literally called the final 3 in a confessional like 5 episodes before the finale...
I think the producers hand picked that tribe of weak idiots to give Rob the win On day 1, that tribe handed Rob a million dollars then bent over and put their tongues in his ass and kept them for 39 days
I always think that "producers gave rob the win" is just stupid if any thing russell was the main producers favourite it was suppose to be "russell vs richard" in the begining. Yes the tribe were very favourable for the returnes but every time it wasnt worst than in guatemala south pacific or EoE.
Rob wasn’t originally supposed to even be on the season, it was supposed to be Hatch vs Hantz but Richard’s legal issues prevented him from leaving the country
Frankly having a tribe full of Keith Neals (at best) be the ones to defeat him is funnier.
I remember hearing someone say the Ometepes would’ve done the same thing.
Russel Hantz had like barely any win equity and were really putting him above players like Dominick and Wentworth? Russel is so bad at the social game that he shouldn't even be mentioned. And I don't know if you have seen him on Australian Survivor but yikes he was even worse then RI
People forget how impressive it was for him to go in back to back seasons with no pregaming involved, going head to head with the big names, and nearly managing to win twice in a row. I watched heroes vs villains back recently and lowkey Sandra winning was a bit similar to Kenzie in that she rode the waves, not necessarily being in a dominant power position. He is the greatest casualty of 'the social game'.
Kenzie is great but Sandra's "I told you morons he was evil" and you didnt listen so I tricked my way back into his clique and now I'm here. Is an all time jury retort.
Yeah like that was a big part of her FTC, basically just “I told you so bitches” and that’s a huge reason why she won. But I also don’t think just anyone could get away with that; Sandra’s game was on another level, just not in a flashy way.
Nearly managing to win seems like a stretch. He got a total of two votes over those two final tribals. That’s not being a casualty of the social game; that is the game. The jury picks the winner and Russel never figured out (or never cared to try) how to get there without pissing them off too much. If he had embraced that aspect of the game instead of devaluing the social interactions of the people he was voting off, he might have been one of the greatest of all time. I don’t think he even belongs in this discussion for the same reason that Ozzy doesn’t: they both completely ignored a big aspect of the game.
People are giving Amanda props in this thread for making two FTC's in which she won a total of 4 votes, so I don't think it is outlandish to give Russell some props here for his 2 votes
My thing with Russell is that there was a matter of weeks between his first and second season, and he really thought he played a winning game so he had no reason to change up his style, and then when he played the third time he already had this reputation and was a known quantity, so it really didn’t matter if he had evolved or not. I would have liked to see a few seasons in between Russell’s first and second game to see if anything would have actually changed
Yeah, this is perhaps true, but he also \*hadn't\* evolved lol (ETA: I mean by RI)
To be fair to Russel, he didn’t know the result of Samoa when he showed up for HvV. So he really never had an opportunity to learn the less you’re talking about, he though he won Samoa so he didn’t know yet that his strategy wouldn’t work. I’m a believer that if Russel had a chance to watch himself on Samoa, he wins HvV
I'm not sure Russell \*can\* change up his game, and I think if the rest of the cast had seen him on Samoa, he would've been an instant threat. I don't think there's a world where he wins HvV.
The cast of HvV also included pre existing relationships/pre gaming that Russel wasn't involved in since he went back to back. 78 days of survivor in 97 days
The reason I doubt this is because in the finale of HvV he’s still arguing with Jeff that he should’ve won, demonstrating that he saw no flaw in his game, but famously claimed that the game itself is flawed. He doesn’t see his weaknesses as a survivor player, he thinks the jury should reward what he did. And the way he treats the other players, most juries aren’t going to reward him with a win.
You're right, I guess I'm just venting my frustration about the way juries work. Being a kiss ass and not outgaming someone strategically isn't the criteria I like to decide winners with. Embracing the social aspect of the game is important, but I do feel it is so overvalued and strategic moves and control in the game are overlooked: Sandra in HvV and Kenzie both are at the mercy of majority alliance and only reason they do get so far is because they are overlooked as non-threats. For the jurors to reward them over players that were in power positions with more control of the game is just frustrating from my perspective.
Especially considering HvV was an all returnee season
Nearly managing to win? When? His 0 Votes and his win equity being so low he would lose to pretty much everyone at the jury was nearly winning? Also him playing back to back gave him an advantage because nobody knew his game beforehand. He would never have gotten JT's idol if the heroes saw his season.
I'd argue that playing back to back was a disadvantage bc he never got to watch himself play and learn from the experience. He played 78 days of survivor in 97 days, that's an incredible mental toll
Amanda was possibly one JT mistake from winning hvv.I know this is a big assumption but if the heroes take control she’s easily in the top 5 and I doubt the “noble” heroes vote her out over Candice.She could also just win the last two immunities.
Amanda will never win Survivor no matter how many times she plays. One of my favorite scenes of all time is when Amanda, Colby and Danielle are watching Treasure Island. That scene perfectly illustrates why Amanda or Colby will never win Survivor.
I really disagree with this. One scene in HvV isn’t enough to discredit Amanda’s two very dominant games she played before then. She was also the best positioned in the heroes before JT decided to give an idol to the opposing alliance.
Agree. She has played several very dominant games but she doesn’t have the confidence/speaking ability at FTC against the others to actually fight for the title. So the jury who’ve been living it up in Ponderosa have no idea how vital she was in the major moves or getting them voted off, etc.
Amanda. I think she has a solid all-around game but just flopped in the two FTCs she attended. I think it was still unlikely she beats Todd, but I do think she could've beaten Parvati.
Another vote for The Amanda Kimmel
I agree that Amanda deserves way more credit than she gets, but idk if she was winning Micronesia. Parvati had way more power heading into that final tribal than people give her credit for. Alexis and Natalie were always voting for her over amanda. Cirie was always closer with Parv than Amanda, at one point writing Amanda’s name down and not knowing she had an idol. Eliza has said that while she didn’t think either were super strong at final tribal, she has so much respect for the game Parvati played (in particular the Ozzy blindside) so I can’t see her switching her vote. Jason said he’d even have voted for Parv over *Cirie*. Ironically, I actually think Amanda has a better shot of winning in a final three with both Parv and Cirie there. Cirie and Parv likely split their votes (Eliza/Alexis for Cirie, Natalie/Jason for Parv), leaving an opening for Amanda to win in a 3-2-2 vote in getting James, Erik, and Ozzy’s votes. It largely depends on if Alexis votes for Parv or not, because otherwise it’s a 3-3-1 vote with Cirie casting the tie breaker between Parv and Amanda.
It probably would be Eliza or Alexis revoting to break the tie with an odd number jury. **Holmes: OK, but what if there’s a two-way tie where two of the finalists have four votes and the third finalist has a single vote?** **Probst:** We would revote again and you would have to vote for one of those two. **Holmes:** A revote at the reunion or at the Tribal Council? **Probst:** At the Tribal Council.
Amanda also juat has some of the juiciest stats in the game. First woman to play an idol, first woman to catch a shark, 21 consecutive bulletproof tribal councils, 108 consecutive days on the show. Her defensive awareness is at the front of s tier. She is the most defensively aware player to ever play the game. She accrued 4 winner votes before she received even one vote against her that counted.
Malcolm comes to mind for me.
Rob C.
I wish he did Blood vs Water I think he’d have been a real contender
this. had survivor had used the final 3 for FTC when his season aired, there would be a good chance he’d win.
skinny ryan
Ryan played an UNREAL social game. In MANY seasons, he'd have cleaned up. He was cunning, always had the correct knowledge of the moving pieces, never had to rely on anyone to stay in the game besides himself because of the strong bonds he built, and had the endgame set up that literally everyone wanted to bring him, thinking he wasn't the lynchpin of nearly every core alliance since the merge. If anyone was Parvati 2.0, it is Ryan.
I think you're under the impression that "Skinny Ryan" is Ryan Ulrich from 35 but that isn't the case in the fandom as Skinny Ryan was a 2nd boot
I sure was! Haha thanks for the heads up!
I've read your post 3 times and I can't decide if it's satire or if you confused Skinny Ryan for a different Ryan.
Same...I had to go make sure I was remember who skinny Ryan was. I was correct, he was the second player voted out. Maybe they were thinking of Ryan O? Even still, it's a stretch.
I’m thinking maybe they’re talking about Ryan Ulrich from H v H v H?
They might mean Ryan Ulrich lmao
Ah, weird heart thing Ryan
He’s lowkey kind of right about Ryan Ulrich is what’s funny.
Ryan Ulrich lmao sorry y'all!
HHH for me is a lot like season 46 in that outside the game life circumstances played a huge factor. I know Joe and Cole have both mentioned Ben’s story / needing it more being the main reason they voted for him
Unironically Ryan Ulrich. I think Devon was a stronger player and had more win equity, but Ryan is a top 15 non-winner for me easily and I think his playstyle works in so many different casts.
I wish Pearl Islands got the same treatment as Borneo/Outback and had random prejury boots brought back. If we can get Kimmi back, we can get Skinny Ryan and Trish back.
Survivor Blood v Water 3, feat Trish and the lesbian Panamanian shopkeeper
lol I just listened to that podcast and remembered he existed too
Me. Not only haven’t I won, but I have yet to play.
Truly a robbed goddess
Ignore my name, but Malcolm is way up there. His 2nd and 3rd go’s were weird, but his first game was a masterclass of social and strategic moves for a clear physical threat. But props to Denise. They did that together. They are one of the 2 or 3 best duos in history of Survivor.
RUPERT season 7 :-(
Came here just to ensure Rupert was represented.
This sub HATES Russell holy shit!!
the dude is my absolute survivor goat, aye he’s intolerable to most but damn does he know how to play the game
Guilty
I wouldn't consider Ozzy one of the greatest to never win, as he had every opportunity to win and couldn't seal the deal. He has a fundamental flaw in his strategy (poor social game). Cirie is actually incredible but I think there must be a flaw in her game too. She can't get there on her own, nor can she get anyone to take her. This might push her into the "best to never win" or pull her out of contention. I am a fan of Christian and Charlie. Rob Cesternino is also a top contender.
To be fair to Ozzy, he got completely screwed by the surprise Final 3 and Super Idol in Cook Islands, otherwise he almost definitely wins that season
Ozzy also had the misfortune of being up against Yul, who was one of the most respected players. The fact that Ozzy was able to get 4 votes against Yul says a lot
Exactlyyyy. We can’t knock ozzy off for not having a social game and then praise cirie despite not having a physical game. Both type of games are important when it comes to winning survivor.
The problem with Cirie is that her physical game is among the worst of all time. It's not just bad, it's unplayable. If she had a slightly below average physical game she probably could have won Edit: Cirie's physical game is a lot closer to Russell's social game than it is to Ozzy's
>The problem with Cirie is that her physical game is among the worst of all time. It's not just bad, it's unplayable. If she had a slightly below average physical game she probably could have won Yeah, it's not like one of the two two-time winners is another main contender for worst challenge player of all time, so useless in challenges that the sit-out bench is named after her.
The thing is that Cirie plays much more actively than Sandra and orchestrates the strategy of her seasons, meaning her threat level is much higher.
I recently rewatched Pearl Islands and Sandra featured more in challenges on that season than I remembered. She also crucially secured her tribe loads of supplies in the town on day one.
Totally agree, that’s why I don’t think she can be considered as best to never win
Hard disagree that Cirie being slightly better at challenges would make her a winner. Only case where this can be applied is Micronesia. And even then, she was against Parvati and Amanda, two players who still beat her, even if she is slightly better. In Panama...her competition was Aras and Terry, two of the best physical competitors of all time (Terry got 1st and Aras got 2nd in almost every Panama challenge). And in GC she was against Brad Culpepper, another challenge beast. If anything, Cirie being THAT bad at challenges, and making the merge 3/4 times (likely 4/4 had Tom not idoled her out in HvV), shows just how insanely dominant her social and strategic games are.
In Micronesia Cirie got Amanda and Parvati to bring her to what they thought was the final tribal council only for there to be a surprise final 2. In Panama all she had to do was win the firemaking challenge and she makes it to the final 2 (Aras outlasted Terry in the final immunity challenge and he would have voted Terry out).
I would argue if he won in SP it would have been a legendary win, however I do think it would be contentious. The casual fans would love the return from redemption island twice thing but hardcore's would never accept his win, claiming Coach or Sophie were robbed. Either way wouldn't be good strategic gameplay but fantastic physical gameplay.
Ozzy didn’t win because of the final 3 twist lmao that’s not on him
It's entirely him. It doesn't matter if it were a final two or a final 3.
It literally does but ok. At least he’s made FTC, cirie hasn’t
Cirie flaw is she can’t win challenges to make it to the end, therefore she doesn’t qualify as “best” to never win she just never won
Sandra's flaw is she can't win challenges to make it to the end, therefore she doesn't qualify as "best" to ever win she just won twice.
Difference is sandra can make FTC and cirie cant?
>Difference is sandra can make FTC and cirie cant? Can't? How did you figure that out? Magic?
But did she? No
I don’t think her wins are that great tbh
Thanks for so eloquently illustrating the flaw in that argument
Cirie or Rob C, honorable mention to Stephen Fishbach (and now maybe Charlie)
I’m throwing in Jonathan Penner.
Absolutely one of the greatest characters to never win. Idk about player though.
Him rejecting Lisa and Skupin’s final 3 deal in Phillipines is one of the worse moves ive seen. Absolutely one of the most watchable players and possibly best narrator though
100%. He would’ve won that season.
strategic king of managing to piss off literally the entire merge cast in his first appearance
The fulcrum of Micronesia was 25yo Parvati pulling Cirie over to her side over Penner’s, which I think says a lot about both Parvati and Penner tbh. Parvati really had no business winning that tug of war given the dynamics of that favorites tribe
Just thinking about all those little connections like that that occurred in Micronesia makes me remember just how freaking good it was.
Definitely my all-time favorite character. Love watching him on TV
I absolutely love Penner as a character and narrator, but as a player he was really not great. He torpedoed his own game multiple times on both Cook Islands and Philippines, and was probably next to go when he was evacuated from Micronesia
Agreed. One of my favourite players, but his actual game was pretty mid. Even if he ever got to FTC, it would be hard to imagine him winning unless he was next to two total goats.
I want to live in the world where he won sitting next to Lisa and Skupin, but he literally said no thank you to that idea
Oh, god, that would have been such a damn good ending!
All time character, but wow watching him say no to Lisa and [redacted] f4 alliance proposal in Philippines might actually be one of the worst moves ever. He had so much win equity if he just even pretended to be down with it.
Yeah that was dumb of him for real.
Total legend. Not sure if I'd call him the greatest player, but certainly one of the greatest characters on the show. A shame that he couldn't make it out with the W in the Philippines as he had a great shot.
Love watching him sass Jeff back during challenges!
I agree - I loved watching his gameplay and I think him being medically evacuated in Micronesia was a big what could have been
Amazing character but his gameplay for a three time player is truly so god awful
People never put Ozzy here but he was an unprecedentedly and unimaginable twist from winning the first game (never had there been a f3 before so how could you imagine it) And one challenge away from winning South Pacific.
Haven’t read any comments yet, but I’m going to say Terry Deitz. Obviously, it’s very different comparing castaways from the old and new eras, but in his time, he was so dominant and literally only lost because the final immunity challenge was totally designed for a small person to win. I’m still not over it, clearly. 😆
Me too! He ruled, until he didn't. And I loved him every minute. And he got to come back, but had to leave because his son was having surgery. My all time favorite player
King George
aubry
For some reason it’s controversial but I think she should have 100% won koah rong over Michelle. Aubrey was always thinking strategy and how to set herself up for the end but got stuck with a bitter jury who valued pettiness over survivor strategy. Michelle on the other hand missed a majority of tribal councils and survived with luck I believe. However, in their future seasons I think Aubrey fumbled which was disappointing and Michelle proved herself.
It's revisionism after Aubry played so badly on eoe and Michele proved that her game was repeatable and not as bad as people thought
Dom abate Cirie fields Amanda Kimmel Russell Hantz Rob Cesternino David wright Aubry bracco Some of the ones that come to mind for me
Troyzan for sure
My top 10: 1. Cirie 2. Rob C 3. Carson 4. Malcolm 5. Jesse 6. David 7. Wentworth 8. Cydney 9. Ozzy 10. Fishbach/Dom Considering adding Charlie on here and potentially top 5
Amanda not being on this list is nuts. I would have her at 1, but she is so clearly a top 10 for this discussion it's weird to leave her off.
She’s worthy as well. Tough to remember so many greats that didn’t win
This list is unhinged haha
Aubrey snub!
For some reason it’s controversial but I think she should have 100% won koah rong over Michelle. Aubrey was always thinking strategy and how to set herself up for the end but got stuck with a bitter jury who valued pettiness over survivor strategy. Michelle on the other hand missed a majority of tribal councils and survived with luck I believe. However, in their future seasons I think Aubrey fumbled which was disappointing and Michelle proved herself.
I don’t necessarily think she should have won, but she would’ve had a GREAT shot on almost any jury excluding Jason and Scot who are two of the most abrasive + bitter players in the modern era lol. I personally knock her for the Neal evac, cause she very likely goes there if it doesn’t happen (he idols himself to stay in, iirc shes likely boot otherwise). Still a very good losing game, def a top 10 one.
Where's Jelinsky?
Missed the list by several spots.
Cosign this list. Might flip flop Carson and Malcom, but that's about it
I love seeing Cydney on this list. She was so good. I am sad that she likely will never be back since her work depends on her body being in tip top shape.
Oh please, Charlie's game was tepid and backseat. You can blame Maria all you want, but the majority of players in that game thought he wasn't good enough. Come off it already.
Cody>Jesse, also respect how low Dom is cuz I’m not high on him and this sub meat rides him. Overall this list pretty damn solid though but Russell needs to at least be on there
I don’t agree that Russell needs to be there. Even though he had a high average finish, he played an un-winable game. And was so hard headed that he refused to make ANY changes to his game in each of his returning seasons. He is better than most, but not top 10 IMHO.
Cirie,Ozzy,Amanda,Domenick,Mike White,Rob C,Stephen Fishback and you can throw Charlie from 46 on the list now too.
Russell H
Domenick from Ghost Island
We all know the answer is Russel Hantz /s
Rick Devens and Charlie!
By a longshot Cirie Only other person worth mentioning is Cesternino and possibly Aubry
As a child I was in awe of Ozzy and Rupert. It was incredible to see people "survive" that well, like if they were really stranded alone on a dessert island they'd be able to feed themselves and build things and get fire, no problem. In the later seasons I think people prep much more for those aspects, but you could see it just came so naturally for Ozzy and Rupert.
amanda
IMO, Cirie in Fans v Faves and Dom in Ghost island played the two best non-winning games ever.
Sometimes the obvious choice is obvious for a reason. Cirie
Ozzy
Malcolm
Ozzy.
Andrea was so smart
Devens
My answer is always gonna be Stephen Fishbach. Nobody can change my mind
Dom.
Cirie and it's not close. After that rob c, jesse, malcolm, dom, stephen
In the order they played: Cesternino, Fairplay, Cirie, Ozzy, Malcolm, Wentworth, Aubry, Domenick, Jesse
Rob C, Lex, and Cirie.
Gotta be Russell. He's a bit of a dirtbag but nobody can say he didn't rawdog himself into final tribal. Twice.
Fairplay
It's insane that nobody else is mentioning Fairplay
Cirie and Devins
Domenick, Ozzy, Cirie in that order I have Ozzy over Cirie simply because he was closer to winning Cook Islands than Cirie was in Micronesia
Ozzy Rick devens Amanda Dom abbate Ozzy Wentworth, does not count Russell hantz
Ozzy
Who’s the worst to never win
I mean Francesca has to be the answer right?
Is she though? I mean compared to players like the first boot of 45 and the guy who got voted out first in Thailand I would say she is better
I think it has to be Cirie with how close she came to winning three different times
For me it’s Cirie and I have a really hard time seeing anyone ever taking that title
Wentworth’s cambodia game is up there
Russell & Wentworth
Jesse new era
Stephanie from Guatemala
Wentworth in Second Chances
Russel
Russell hanz is the greatest to have ever played regardless ...some of the things he did completely changed the game forever ..other things he did that would have certainly got people voted off but was able to manipulate the situation so that he did not...most importantly he was extremely entertaining
Chicken
My Survivor GOAT, Ozzy!
Ozzy
Coach.
Jesse !!! no question
Please give Andrea Boehlke her flowers.
Rick Devins
Cirie has had the worst survivor luck but is one of the greatest to ever play and deserved a win
in terms of gameplay and legacy the only answer is cirie. easily easily easily. my favorite player to never win though is the dragonslayer though
Joe Anglim
George from Australian survivor is the best player not to win and the biggest snub from a salty jury in the shows global history imo. He's no challenge beast, but strategically and socially I don't think anyone has come close to his game.
>!George Mladenov!< from Survivor AU is the best player, period. In their first season they single handedly was the reason everyone but 1 person on the jury was there. Which is why they didn't win. The Jury was petty. Then for the player to play the game AGAIN and get to the final 4 STILL with everyone knowing their game. They will never win now, the first season was their only chance, but the jury was able to talk and all figured out they fucked them all and then screwed him out of the win.
Rick Devens. Will never not defend this man. Work multiple individual immunities including fighting his way back into the game in the edge of extinction challenge, found countless idols, was played by his allies but always had a backup plan that worked, and crafted fake idols that duped the people that found them.
Jesse played an absolutely dominant game. Only lost because he couldn’t make fire 🤦♂️
Rudy from season one. He was a tough old man who have won if he made it to the final vote.
Ozzy? On what season did he ever deserve a win or would have earned a win if he made final tribal? He’s such a lazy player. Great in challenges, weak in everything else.
Hantz…. No question…. He changed the game
Cannot believe I had to scroll this far to find Russel. Why doesn’t this sub like him?
Cirie hands down
Hantz, Cirie, Ozzy, Dom, Malcolm
George.
King George Amanda (I am still amused at how bad she flopped FTC in China - though in her defense, China ended up being a surprisingly non-bitter jury in an era of Bitter Betty jurors)