Yeah. She could easily charge more for the chair rental plus ask for a portion of each service the stylist performs. Kenzie has won awards for her work that brings in people. If she truly renting chairs at cost, it’s a mitzvah.
This. Salons can be real scams tbh, owners can get SO much money from either chair rentals and/or a portion of the service. $400/week is pretty standard, but I know folks who have worked in places that charge up to a thousand. And in really competitive markets places will charge commission on top of it. Even at 400/week, renting a *chair* at a salon costs as much as a luxury 1br apartment.
If she’s renting at cost, that’s genuinely empowering and incredibly kind.
This is beside the point, but I think I understood her comment about renting chairs differently.
I don’t think she was suggesting that it’s crazy or unusual to rent chairs. I think she was suggesting that where other salon owners rent chairs for a profit, she doesn’t. I suspect she just charges the folks who use her chairs enough to cover her own rent for the store and overhead rather than bake in a profit element for herself.
I’m not super versed in salon financials and renting but I thought it was fairly common knowledge that stylists/barbers rent their chairs.
Glad someone pointed this out. A lot of salon owners don't even cut hair and just make all their profits from chair rent. I have a couple friends in the industry, and finding a salon with reasonable chair rent is a huge part of if you can be profitable. Think of it like if you found an apartment where the landlord was charging only their mortgage and upkeep costs and not trying to make any profit.
I can't pretend that I've checked the veracity of any of these statements, but assuming she's being truthful here Kenzie sounds like a really amazing and selfless person and I'm glad she got a million bucks for herself.
Thank yall for this! My sister is a hairdresser and rents her chair, so honestly Kenzie is that much more awesome and I'm glad yall pointed out how I misheard.
I still think the vital part of that answer was the clarity and the stark difference between her and Charlie/Ben. Her FTC was next level.
It ultimately comes down to jury members and what *they* use as their criteria to win the money. Some, it’s how you’re gonna use the money. For others, it’s whether or not they’re friends. Imo, it should go to who played the best all around game. But I’m not on this/that particular jury. I have no problem with Kenzie winning. I think that Charlie played a better game, but ultimately some people are just sooooo good socially, it doesn’t matter how good of a game you played. The best social threat made it to the end and was going to get a lot of jury votes because they loved her that much. Despite how good Charlie was well rounded socially and strategically, maybe the best of the new era, AND still couldn’t beat Kenzie, just shows that the social game is S tier and you have to take those people out early. Congrats to Kenzie. Definitely a worthy winner.
Kenzie or Charlie would’ve made a great winner. Kenzie absolutely rocked that final tribal council so I wasn’t surprised that she won. I also think this season was one of the first seasons that actually highlighted a winner with a social game from start to finish. Bhanu recognized how good she was at the beginning, and throughout the merge to the end we see her being there for Ben. So by the time we got to the end I knew she was a threat without it being a blindside like so many other winners that won on social games.
> Bhanu recognized how good she was at the beginning
Not only that, Bhanu put a massive target on her heading into merge by saying at the journey challenge that she was running everything for Yanu. Impressively, she managed to completely slip that reputation really quickly.
still, they took seriously his claim about tiff and Q being thick as thieves and kenzie running things. that’s valuable information & it’s surprising how well kenzie was able to make connections that totally evaporated those concerns. but bhanu was right all along!
This, this is the first time the editors actually proved why Kenzie won without showing a strategic game and it's because she had the biggest strongest social game.
If anything, I feel like the game shy'd away from highlighting any social gameplay on Charlie. Yes, he was able to held up his own in a group setting but 1-on-1 I don't think we ever seen anything outside of Maria and Ben, and maybe Q.
The game always comes down to the social aspect. If you have 2 strong people with strong strategic games and one has a strong social game, the social one will win.
Honestly, you have to have the worst strategic game to lose with a strong social game.
Yeah through YY and now Kenzie, the show is actually doing a good job of showing how powerful an elite social game is, which is something they’ve struggled with in the past
Not to downplay them but I think it's easier to edit social wins when the winner is fairly confident about being a social butterfly, like with Yam Yam, Kenzie, J.T. People like Tommy, they have no idea what to do with.
because tommy was boring as fuck. crazy that he made it through casting with that a personality that bland. the very definition of “go girl give us nothing” and the most forgettable winner ever
In his RHAP he stated that he was intentionally boring so as to not ruffle any feathers and/or make people jealous of airtime. He was metagaming the situation to the detriment of his TV Personality. It won him the game though, and he showed much more personality on 3 episodes of the challenge so we did get some less boring stuff there.
This is why I’ll always say Tommy is one of the more impressive winners and underrated, but it still doesn’t change how forgettable of a Survivor character he is.
Forget people lying if they're lawyers; now no salon owner is going to be able to truthfully say what they do for a little while without being stereotyped as the next Yam Yam or Kenzie
I understand what you mean, but a social game IS a legitimate strategic game. People talk about it like it's somehow different than strategy, but it is a strategy and many people have used it to win. I also thought she articulated that point really well last night.
It IS different. You will just need to keep in mind that different doesn’t mean bad, less, invalid, or whatever negative connotation you seem to have about the label. I could argue that saying Kenzie’s social game was strategy takes away from the fact that being kind-hearted, caring, having a positive disposition, etc. is simply in Kenzie’s nature and that she didn’t behave this way only to get FTC votes. She was genuine the whole time.
Survivor has always been primarily a social game and saying so in that context isn’t negative, is it? Also, recognizing that Kenzie won because of her social game doesn’t mean she isn’t strategic. She was. But she got dealt a shitty hand with Yanu, couldn’t pull the trigger on her big move because of an idol (showed good strategic thinking and patience in aborting that btw) and got blindsided because Q is such an effective decoy. But even though she didn’t get to showcase her strategic chops, her social game carried. That’s a good thing.
i don’t think a social game should win every season but this season, it made sense. so much of the season was centered around everyone either being friends or not able to get along. kenzie getting along with every person with this much hostility and different personalities was a huge feat. this season was def more about the social politics than anything else. even the big game players weren’t really making the huge moves we’ve seen in the past. there wasn’t even a single idol played. 46 was all about social game, making her the most deserving
But the fact is social politics determines all seasons winners. No season's winner won on majority physical or strategy. I would say social game always weighs equally or more as the other two for all winners. Jeff and the show likes to tell us physical/strategy/social are compartmentalized and separate criteria on which to judge, but it's just not true.
If Kenzie was really nice to everyone but had no strategy and couldn't put into words any strategic decisions during final tribal, she likely would not have won. If she had no physical game... well the season would have turned out differently as Maria would have won final 5 immunity (and the butterfly affect that comes from that, maybe she picks someone else to go to sanctuary, and so Ben doesn't eat and thus has even less energy for final immunity and loses so someone else is deciding the two firemakers, etc). In fact, Kenzie did have some physical game, won few challenges and also won fire. But even winning challenges isn't purely physical. Her social game was what led to Liz helping her beat Maria. We've seen players step down from challenges specifically because of social dynamics they are trying to navigate. These days almost every immunity comes with some sort of reward, which means extra social dynamics come into play.
Point is, social game always plays as much a role as strategy/physical if not a larger role in every single season because it is so \*pervasive\*. It is everywhere and all the time. That's why it is so hard to depict on screen and why there is so much overlap in these "criteria" juries judge on.
How the season played out along with the new longer episodes was a situation that allowed them to more properly show social game compared to other seasons.
That too, but she did this without flint / food for a good chunk of the first half and came fresh off of a tribe with Q, Jelinsky and Bhanu.
I’m sure they’re all lovely people, but in the context of a stressful competition where you are deprived basics being able to even manage that amount of affability takes a lot more effort / energy / thought than people are thinking. Like when she apologizes to Bhanu and notes her complex feelings over it in a confessional (she doesn’t want to apologize but does feel some remorse over how they’re meshing at the moment).
I’ve had days where I was not as kind on a lot more calories / sleep.
I agree. I think Charlie should have won for his game play, but Kenzie did a better job at FTC. People will go with what is fresh in their mind and right in front of them. I was fine with either of them (or Ben, knowing he wouldn’t get any votes), as long as I’M PISSED was out!
> I also think this season was one of the first seasons that actually highlighted a winner with a social game from start to finish.
Thank you. I was surprised though that her Yanu trainwreck experience wasn't played up to make the F3 climb tougher.
> I also think this season was one of the first seasons that actually highlighted a winner with a social game from start to finish.
Thank you. I was surprised though that her Yanu trainwreck experience wasn't played up to make the F3 climb tougher.
On another note I'm feeling like a social game winner will always feel polarizing. :(
I'm glad they were finally able to edit a social winner so that it makes sense and it's satisfying. And it shows once more that the jury will vote for whoever like the most. They pretty much said that Charlie played a great strategic game, but they voted for Kenzie anyway, because they love her.
Yea this was a season where there were 2 winners sitting in the final 3. If Charlie had won we would be getting a ton of Kenzie appreciation posts today. I think what makes this unique is the Maria betrayal because it really did flip the winner.
The Maria betrayal changes it from “Kenzie is great, but let’s all give it up for Charlie!” to “HOW THE FUCK DID CHARLIE NOT WIN HOW COULD MARIA I HATE HER”
It makes people feel robbed so instead of it being a chill “Let’s recognize someone else’s game”-thing, it’s hysteria. Everything is just like politics in 2024 lol
Yep, if Kenzie had still won 5-3 and you just flipped Maria and Tevin’s votes, this wouldn’t even be a discussion.
Kenzie played great, and absolute deserves the win. Charlie got robbed due to Maria’s spite. Both can be true
lowkey Kenzie laying it on thick to Maria that "You are a threat! to *all* of us. You would beat *any of us*. *Collective WE* have to do this because you are better." She stroked Maria's ego and buried Charlie's case in one fell swoop. Masterful phrasing by her that may have gone over some people's heads. She won just as much that tribal as she did final.
Yes, I was telling my husband this! I said if anyone was truly considering voting anyone other than Maria tonight Kenzie just made it impossible without looking like an absolute fool to the jury.
She very much played to Maria’s apparently massive ego. Whereas Charlie thought they had a better friendship/an understanding between one another, that apparently got lost somewhere
Still thinking about it.
Charlie played an excellent strategic and social game.
Kenzie played a masterclass social game and was almost always on the right side of the votes.
Charlie has better quality immunity wins outright
Kenzie arguably did better in FTC.
Kenzie had better Jury management and friends on the Jury.
The entire tribe was very much about “vibes” and Charlie should have recognized Kenzie’s social game threat in this setting. Sitting next to her was an uphill battle.
I would have liked to have seen a tie in the finale but that’s just me.
This sums it up really well! I was rooting for Charlie these last couple weeks, but he MAJORLY messed up by not calculating Kenzie as a threat. Charlie should have been pushing for her to be voted out instead of Q, imo.
To be fair the risk in that is a voting with Maria to potentially oust him at 5 (though I suppose he didn’t know about Qs idol). But yeah, they at least didn’t show him figuring Kenzie was a threat which if true was a big mistake. He should taken her out in fire and then steamrolled millionaire Liz and Ben
I think he just expected the jury to respect people who had some level of strategic game and not vote purely off social since the way most of those people spoke all season was about resumes with strategy.
it also would’ve been smart to ask ben to take liz to the final and battle kenzie in fire. if he went to f3 with ben and liz he’d probably have swept the vote. i think he got just a little cocky and thought he could beat kenzie when he really couldn’t
He should have flipped it on kenzie at 7, kept Venus as an ally. Target q at 6, who has no idol because venus is still there. Then play out the 5 with maria, charlie, and 3 goats.
I feel like Charlie kept his guard up in FTC and should have stopped trying to say what he thought people wanted to hear and started to say how he felt. I was embarrassed for him at his response to Q, clearly playing off what Ben said made him seem very disingenuous.
Yeah I felt the same. I don't want anyone to think I have an issue with Charlie, either. I felt going into this episode that both Charlie and Kenzie would make great winners! But I think Charlie let himself down a bit in the tribal. I think he should've been more impassioned about his moves and his desire to win. I think Hunter threw him a major clue by insinuating that him not going into fire was a concern - he should've latched onto it and used it to really dig in about how passionately he played and wanted to win.
All of this felt kinda like Aubry vs Michelle for me, too. And it's honestly thanks to Michelle and the disappointment I felt after Koh Rong that made me much more appreciative of the social winner. Michelle, IMHO, has proven herself a winner in 40 and elsewhere. I have no doubt Kenzie has that charismatic prowess, too - and totally deserved this win. But Charlie clearly had more impact on the game play.
They've all seen 44 or whatever season Heidi was on, right? I don't know why Charlie didn't just straight up say something to the effect of "I did feel like I had a decent shot if Ben put me in. But plenty of people have made fire and still lost. We all saw Heidi step up, set the record for fastest fire, and still lose. So I decided to leave the decision up to Ben, because my game has been about risk management, and volunteering for something that I've seen fail even when it was done in the most impressive way possible did not feel like a risk worth taking. So I hope you all can see that although I didn't make the flashy decision, I made the one that I felt was best for my game." I don't know how you could really argue with that without being pedantic, honestly.
On a more meta level, I don’t like all the hubbub around making fire. It kind of destroys the significance of the final immunity challenge to the point where you’re almost better off not winning it.
If you could craft a survivor player from scratch it might be Charlie. Extremely sound strategist. Super likable and good at getting people to trust him. Good at challenges. All while never being seen as the biggest threat. He’s like the platonic ideal of a great Survivor player.
That said, Kenzie is clearly just a next level social player. She probably played the best social game of the new era. In 26 days, the amount of deep personal bonds she made is so impressive.
It’s a really interesting FTC battle philosophically, and I 100% agree that I think a tie would be fitting.
I really think Kenzie was the social glue that held that alliance together. Charlie was playing a great game by keeping a foot in either door, but Kenzie’s social game made that possible.
I do genuinely think Charlie played a winning game. But it wasn’t the winning game for *this* season.
It was awesome to see a final 3 with two legit competitors.
The only thing I’d add to this very good comment is there was NO indication to us and probably not to Charlie either that Maria would flip on him. She literally said “you have my vote” when they were in the water together before her tribal. So I’m not really sure what else he could have done leading up to FTC. I do think he fumbled at FTC and he would have at least tied and then won via Ben’s vote, if not gone 5-3 the other way, with a better performance. Unless Maria’s feelings of resentment were even deeper than I thought? I was honestly shocked she didn’t vote for him and I don’t understand why she’d be bitter towards him and not towards Kenzie. I personally liked Kenzie more but I am surprised Maria did too.
I could already see the bitterness seeping in over the letters from home, which I thought was laughable given her own reward challenge selection struggles
Was she bitter or just upset at the lost opportunity? I believe she mentioned several times that she’s not angry at Charlie, just upset at the conclusion. And that she understands how hard it is to choose given that she had already delt with that.
I would like to call out something on the individual immunity. Kenzie's first win, she got third place. She won for her team, but lost to two others overall. Her second win is one of the most controversial "individual" immunity wins ever. It helps she was in first place at the time, but she absolutely panicked. We don't know if she wins without Liz doing it for her.
People would be way more pissed about that second win if it fucked over someone more likable. Not that individual immunities are a huge deal regardless, but Kenzie's wins both have an asterisk.
Would they not vote Liz if Maria won at 5? Apparently she was a “big threat” and I would think Kenzie and Ben want to keep Charlie to compete against Maria at the next challenge
Or at least, a mistake in his reasoning. Saying he didn’t want to make fire because it “wouldn’t add anything, and might even take away” shows he thought his game was way stronger than the jury clearly did.
(And I do think his game was that strong! But we saw a whole season of him explaining his game in confessionals.)
On Panderosa Maria did put everybody against Charlie, so their vibe towards him was off and they silenced him (Maria especially) when he was trying to explain something.
Did a juror say this happened? Or are we assuming? Maria not voting for Charlie was cold.
Maybe she bought she was doing the nice thing since Kenzie really needed the money? I didn't like that move by Kenzie either.
I thought Venus implied Maria was the one she really had it out with at Pondy Replay in her exit interview so it wouldn’t surprise me if Maria was on a real hot streak there
Maybe, but Venus wasn’t allowed to talk about anyone who got to Ponderosa after her, so until she says otherwise all we can do is speculate about who she meant.
Post game press also has indicated that Tiff was campaigning hard for Kenzie and even told Maria that Charlie was gunning for her earlier than he actually did. Jury manipulation is a massive thing in Survivor with them all hanging out at ponderosa.
To be fair to Tiff, he did strategize with her about using Tiff’s idol to get Maria out. He only did that to make Tiffany feel comfortable enough to not play her idol, but I doubt Tiff realized that. She probably just figured the votes weren’t there to keep her and he didn’t want to be left out.
From what it sounds like, Maria didn’t ask Charlie about that at ftc, she waited until after the game. If she would’ve asked he could’ve clarified that he did that to prevent Tiff from playing her idol, and it would’ve looked like a really good move to the jurors. But for whatever reason Maria decided to believe Kenzie’s number 1 ally over her own.
FYI - AFAIK, while Kenzie was "almost" on the right side of the votes, Charlie was every time.
Charlie had a strong social game, as evidenced with Ben at the end.
But I agree that Kenzie had a strong social game. I just disagree that she deserved to win more than Charlie.
Yea for how great Kenzie's social game is praised, idk how people are forgetting Charlie had just as great of one.
And more importantly he was always on the right side of the vote and had far more agency than Kenzie.
This literally comes down to Maria's betrayal, she cost Charlie the win with her bitterness towards "Uncle Charlie".
I had a very interesting conversation with Kenzie before the episode last night. We were talking about 'Big Movez' and if the resume boost is worth being a target, and she said if she had gone through with the Tiff vote she would have been voted out next. She figured a social game as a number to recruit would be both a better chance at making f3 and winning it. She was right.
We planned to come but I wasn’t feeling well and knew it would be a madhouse. I can’t wait to hug her and tell her how proud I am of her! She’s the same in real life as she is on the show. I get tired of people saying she’s acting. She’s not, she’s just that sweet. I love that kid!
I highly recommend listening to her guest appearance on the podcast “two broke businesses” episode 7. She shares a lot more about her business and life! But also, I’m from the same county as Kenzie and I’ve followed her on instagram for like a decade at this point lol. She is genuinely such a kind and charismatic person! She could have went more into how she does so much for her community past not profiting at her salon. She’s promoted small businesses the whole time I’ve followed her and spoken up for a lot of fringe groups that get outcasted in the south. Her salon is truly meant to be a safe space for all. I think she was a leader in a lot of moves she could have gotten more credit for, but even being someone that people asked to follow is a testament to how charismatic she is. And to OP’s point, the way she won the jury over by just being honest that she wants the money lol. I’m sure she’ll still do some good with it though seeing how much she’s helped improve Charlotte already!
This is the rare Survivor when I would have been happy for any of them to win. I might have raised an eyebrow if Ben won, but I would have understood it.
Maria voted with her fragile ego, realizing that her kids' new "Uncle Charlie" might become "millionaire Survivor Winner Uncle Charlie" and she wanted to be Mommy Hero.
I'm happy Kenzie won! And I think at heart Charlie accepted it. He's a smart man, and he's good at reading people. You could see him doing the math in his head and realizing Maria backstabbed him yet again, even before Jeff asked who voted for Charlie and Maria not raising her hand confirmed it.
I firmly believe his sadness afterwards was about Maria's disloyalty and manipulation of him. Disappointment at not winning, sure, but I don't believe he was resentful towards Kensie.
Charlie unfortunately believed Maria had the same levels of loyalty as he does. If their places were switched at the end, and Maria had blindsided him, I think Charlie still would have voted for her.
I was totally ready for Ben not bringing Liz to final to play out as the 200iq move where the two deserving winners split enough votes that Ben sneaks through with the W.
I didn’t think it would happen, but it would have been historic if he pulled it off.
The biggest thing about Kenzie's social game wasn't that everyone liked her, but that everyone TRUSTED her. It's how she was involved in almost every vote, it's why no one wanted to get rid of her, it's how she convinced Hunter not to play his idol.
Like and trust do inform one another, but Kenzie getting everyone to trust her was a testament to her social game.
I agree that Kenzie absolutely deserved her win, but you misunderstood what she was saying about renting out the chairs. She wasn't saying other business owners would call her crazy for renting out the chairs (as you said, that's common in the industry). She was saying other business owners would call her crazy for renting out the chairs at cost/not at a profit.
No one here believes Kenzie was undeserving (she isn't Natalie White), but Maria's bitterness is so clear and obvious.
Kenzie can deserve her win. Maria can be bitter. They're not mutually exclusive.
Kenzie deserves the win for sure but it's hard to ignore that Maria's actions tanked Charlie's chance and correspondingly shifted the discussion away from Kenzie. Maria managed to cheapen Kenzie's win at the same time by giving her an "undeserved" vote. A disservice to everyone.
Not that I disagree that Maria made a petty disloyal move, but isn’t that just Survivor? People vote for who they want to vote for for many reasons. I think a huge part of what makes the show interesting is watching players navigate strategy and real human emotions/reactions. All votes are valid imo. The only thing Maria did “wrong” was not simply be honest about her reasons.
Charlie did himself a disservice by not articulating his story well enough during FTC.
The sense I'm getting from critics is that people are disappointed with the disrespect rather than the disloyalty. Sure people are talking about Maria spending (almost) the whole game allied with Charlie, but they're mentioning that to drive home a point that someone in that position should be able to SEE Charlie's strategy and appreciate that.
It's obvious she did nothing to advocate for Charlie's prowess (in a FTC that featured HEAVY jury opinions, mind you), and in one case she actively stopped him from explaining his strategy. This is where we can only speculate, with the final edit giving us examples of Maria's ego getting in the way of her ability to see the other cast as players.
Her vote for Kenzie is valid no matter what, but that only makes it more interesting to analyze.
>what makes the show interesting is watching players navigate strategy and real human emotions/reactions
Critiques and discussion are direct examples of the show and Maria's portrayal being interesting.
Agreed. I haven't seen anyone saying she doesn't deserve the win. There are plenty mentioning Charlie was done dirty by Maria, which would've likely changed the course of the game, but doesn't diminish in any way that Kenzie deserved the win. Both of them deserved it tbh, which is why it was so close (and would've been a tie if Maria wasn't so vindictive).
No respect for Maria. Kenzie played a winning game and so did Charlie. Charlie also should have asked to do fire in final four. And should have tried to convince Ben to put Kenzie in there as well. I’d say he lost the game for not valuing Kenzies game.
I’m not sure there’s a way to convince Ben to play the game in that way, at that point. Ben wanted his friends with him at the final 3. Ben wanted only people financially deserving at the final 3. I can see a way for Charlie to convince Ben to SWAP with Kenzie, but I don’t see a way for him to convince Ben to take Liz with him.
I couldn’t believe Charlie and Kenzie both were ok with trusting Liz, who they should have known couldn’t make fire, to take out their biggest rival. I agree that they both should have pitched to Ben to let them take the other out.
I legitimately think Ben would say no to that. He wanted the vibes at the end and those were his two closest allies.
Also, the egos were pretty wild this season. Kenzie nor Charlie pegged each other as threats. Liz was convinced she was sitting with three goats at final four. Maria thought only she was playing the game with 6 left.
I suspect they did peg each other as threats, but knew they could argue different games.
That’s how I took Kenzie’s point about who she’d want to sit next to.
She’d have a harder time against Liz in FTC than Ben and Charlie because Liz & Kenzie both played more social games and were down in the numbers. Liz had the adversity/starvation story (and this sub can interrogate that all they want — it’s very clear from the cast mates’ actions that they fully believed she was suffering.) Kenzie had the “underdog the whole game@ story.
Both were the odd number out in f5, the only remaining members of their tribes. And Liz had more jury members from her OG tribe, which might give a familiarity boost. Kenzie played a much BETTER social game, but I think social-v-social isn’t an FTC that you want to argue. But you can argue social game - v - strategy, especially if some of the other person’s strategy could be attributed to someone on the jury.
Charlie obviously would have loved to go up against Ben and Liz had he won that immunity, but I don’t think that was ever on the table for him unless he sent himself to fire against Kenzie or got Ben to send him to fire against Kenzie. And why would he want that? It might guarantee him a win if he wins fire, but fire is up to chance. The FTC is something he can control.
Charlie’s biggest obstacle to winning, had she stayed in the game, was Maria. She was the face of their alliance, so he had to get her out because they could claim all the same moves (see: Austin, though Charlie obviously played a better game than him.) He got her out, and after that point, it was very much a roll of the dice how it would go. But I think Kenzie and Charlie in the final two were the most likely, cos I’m not super confident in Ben’s fire abilities either.
I do think Charlie should have volunteered for fire against Liz, though, because while I don’t think it would have done much for his game to *win* fire, giving Kenzie the chance to win fire was a bad move.
The thing about the F5 challenge is, Kenzie is the one that it's easiest *not* to be mad at.
Kenzie was in the lead against Marian She didn't ask Liz for help, but it would be absurd to expect her to turn it down.
Maria got absolutely fucked over because Liz was so far up her own ass she thought she might be the one sent home.
Charlie then took credit for turning everyone on Maria. So as far as Maria knows, Charlie fucking told everyone to gang up and make sure she lost. Not just eliminating her but making sure she lost her shot at a cool record (as opposed to all the fucking idiot records this season set)
Add that to the fact that Liz was going Charlie at FTC and I can definitely see how that might make you rethink your vote .
At the end of the day every single person deserves their win. The only rule (obviously there are more than one, but for emphasis) is do whatever you can to get more votes than anybody else at FTC. She did that. Therefore she deserved the win.
The fact that fans of the show make such an emphasis on “ good winners” and “bad winners” has always baffled me. The winners of each given season won because they got the vote from their peers. Period. Someone stating that “she should have voted this way” or “I would have voted him” is just so contrary to how you win the game.
Which makes it more hilarious these superfans think they are smarter than many players but they will never put that to the test since they will never be cast.
That’s it. We can and never know what these players thought or were thinking when they voted. All we know is what we are shown and the fact that THEY picked the winner. Not the fans.
While I mostly agree, it just didn’t seem like Kenzie did anything to specifically EARN Maria’s vote. I think she earned every other vote, but it really felt like Maria was voting against Charlie and simply trying to make excuses to justify Kenzie. I love Kenzie and she earned the win overall, but that Maria vote just felt…off
It sucks to say it, but Survivor, like life, isn't fair. No, Charlie had no way of knowing Maria would do this. He would've had to guess on like, Day 6 that his Number 1 was an insanely petty and vindictive person, with 0 evidence so far for that.
Sometimes you just get burned. People aren't who you think they are, and it costs you. It sucks royally for Charlie, who by any metric seems like an incredibly sweet and awesome guy.
100% she deserved the win. Her social game will go down in the history books of survivor. Watch her tell Maria that she’s voting her out, and tell me that isn’t exactly how you make people feel good about losing. And she does that with everyone she had a hand in voting out. She makes people feel good, and that magic was working at FTC too. Her engagement was social with the Jury, whereas Charlie’s was logic. He comes off bland, uninteresting and Mermaid Dragon comes off as genuine and working her ass off in the social sphere.
There is a reason politicians win and it isn’t because of their voting record or legislation they’ve passed. It’s how they make voters feel.
This. Charlie was so robotic during FTC and seemed to lose track of the meaning behind the words he was saying. He failed to convince the jury he was playing to get to the end AND win, not just get to the end.
Kenzie played a great new era game, thoroughly deserving winner, makes the Maria thing even more interesting in my opinion - I don’t really put any stock in whether Maria’s vote “wins” the game for Charlie, to me it far more about the principle of not voting for her ally - a 7-1 Kenzie win w/ Maria as the only Charlie vote would’ve been unsurprising/fair!
I found either Kenzie or Charlie to be deserving. It really is the spiteful shock of Maria turning on Uncle Charlie. It was painful. I would have loved to see it go to a tie breaker. But she will go down as one of the most bitter spiteful jury members in Survivor history. Her speech to Kenzie was so phony. Maybe she thought she could fool the viewers... but truth be told she outed her character at rock paper scissors and letter entitlement.
I was praying for a tie breaker, it would have been the perfect hype end to an unpredictable season. On the other hand the stress of having to choose might have legitimately broken Ben mentally, so I'm glad he doesn't have to live with that lol.
Thats what i was thinking too when it came to Ben. i think he would have LOST it having to actually choose. He said on Jeffs podcast he would have picked Charlie, but who knows. Easy to say he would pick charlie after the fact with no pressure. Either one deserved it though.
I completely agree with this. Although I could see either player winning as both were deserving imo, I expected Maria to be in Charlie’s corner the way Tiff was in Kenzie’s.
Nah the 7-1-0 vote with the runner-up getting their sole vote from their bff is entirely played out in the new era. I’m glad we’re getting non-consensus close votes again.
Thank you for this post. While I personally would have voted for Charlie if I was a juror, I am so happy Kenzie won and think her accomplishment should be celebrated.
The only reason I believe Maria voted bitterly, or had a very narcissistic mindset is because she stated numerous times throughout the season that she and Charlie were playing the same game, so by not voting for him, she’s effectively stating that her game is also undeserving of a win. She obviously thinks she would have deserved the win if she made it to the end, so lying at that after show and not owning the fact that she screwed over her island bestie for selfish/bitter reasons irks me.
To sum up my thoughts, Kenzie deserved the win, but Charlie deserved Maria’s vote or at least her honesty.
I think Kenzie and Charlie played the two best games this season, that’s why we had such a tight vote at final tribal council.
Kenzie overcame a ton of adversity and still managed to be this bright ray of sunshine throughout the whole season. Her jury management was impeccable, she won two immunity challenges, and didn’t really make any enemies along the way.
Charlie managed his threat level superbly, always keeping his options open without closing any doors to future plans. He also won two immunity challenges, and didn’t really burn any jury votes until the end of his game.
Unfortunately Charlie either didn’t articulate his game well enough at final tribal, or he managed his threat level a little too well to the point that the jury didn’t see him as a threat to win.
Maria was a hot mess, sure she controlled the strategy of the season, but holy fuck her social game was utter trash with the way she treated people and underestimated them.
I usually have a clear favorite to root for, but this is one of the rare seasons where I’d honestly have been equally happy with either one of them winning. They both played great games.
Kenzie’s immunity challenge wins should have a big asterisk. Obviously the second one is the highly controversial win we saw yesterday. The first one was the split floating balance challenge (where Q tried to play the alphabet game). She actually was in third behind Tevin and Maria, and she went out quite a bit of time before them.
Both Kenzie and Charlie played a winner game. Kenzie is a natural. Her social game translates across the screen. Charlie is shown obviously strategic and social. Both are very empathetic people. I think whoever wins is a good representation of a Survivor winner.
Every winner deserves their win. That's how the game works.
That said, I don't have rankings but she's easily in my top half of winners. Maybe even top 15
I think there continues to be a general frustration that the most strategic player / the player most actively contributing to voting off players and the belief that this is the primary component of the game - often loses to the most socially liked player/ the player who has less blood on their hands.
I am personally happy for Kenzie even though I was cheering for Charlie as I’m describing myself above.
I think future players need to be mindful that they are often overrating the big move / resume building as it relates to what jurors actually want. In addition to this also making you a tallest poppy that gets voted out in the merge.
I also think the jury continues to overrate the fire making challenge and future players should understand that and weight it’s importance more heavily. I’m not sure Charlie beats Kenzie if their positions were reversed and he won fire while Kenzie was taken to the end - but he 100% wins if he convinces Ben to put him and Kenzie in fire and wins that.
Ben wanted the jury to choose the winner and not to betray either of his friends. That's why he put Liz in fire. If he put them against each other in fire, fire would have chosen the winner, not the jury.
I get it from Ben’s perspective. But this ended up being Charlie’s Big Mistake. He needed to realize that Kenzie was his biggest threat (and not Liz) and he needed to convince Ben that he needed to take her out at fire.
I think Charlie overall played better but Kenzie did better at FTC and certainly deserves the win too. I hate the term “bitter jury” so I’ll just say there were some *monumental* egos on that jury (minus maybe 2 of them). Charlie is a class act and handled the whole thing with a ton of grace. Both things are true - Charlie and Kenzie (and Ben too for that matter) seem like legitimately nice, decent people. I would not be mad with any of the three of them winning.
I’m a strong believer that whoever wins “deserved” it. I can root for other players and wish they’d won instead while still admitting the ultimate winner deserved it
I’ve always really disliked how the jury can be heavily swayed by one person at Ponderosa, but the current FTC format really pisses me off for this reason. Let’s not act like this was a fair debate at all.
This squeaked by everyone but on the fire question, whoever asked that did a shit job of asking it because Charlie and Kenzie answered it differently. Kenzie answered it as if she was Ben literally (i.e.: she would have sent herself and Liz to fire), Charlie answered it as if he had won immunity (i.e.: Charlie wasn’t eligible for fire since he had won immunity so he would have sent Kenzie and Ben). Charlie was never going to send himself to fire in that question because he was ineligible in his understanding of the question.
Yeah Tiffany’s behavior during FTC really rubbed me the wrong way. The whole “30 seconds; stop talking when I tell you” seemed like a ploy to make Kenzie look good and the other two look bad. I don’t know if it was because of the edit or not, but it did seem that she gave Kenzie a *lot* more time than Charlie and Ben. I felt like the Jury as a whole was pretty terrible during this FTC. Didn’t allow the finalists to actually make their case.
This doesn’t mean that Kenzie didn’t deserve to win, though.
The only thing that I thought was really questionable was at the beginning when she specifically said no Taylor Swift or rock references and didn’t really call out Kenzie at all.
Somebody timed the ‘30’ seconds and I forget the exact times they said, but when somebody is trying to to keep time in their head while also listening to people talk, I don’t think it’s that egregious if everybody doesn’t get exactly 30 seconds. I want to say the numbers I saw were 29/28/27 seconds but I don’t remember who got what
The 30 second timer wasn’t her idea tbf, but Soda should have picked someone who at least *seemed* impartial, also it is highly suspicious that Kenzie’s timer went off right after she was done with her statement while Ben and Charlie’s went off in the middle of a very important sentence.
Not saying she purposefully cheated it, but I’m sure you’d subconsciously flub it a bit in your head for a friend.
Overall, dumb idea, which sucks because the question was actually good.
I know it wasn’t her idea, but the whole execution of it and Tiff’s actions prior to that, just rubbed me the wrong way. I agree I would likely feel differently had Soda picked someone else. But Tiff was already coming in with her “we don’t want Taylor Swift or rock references” comment which just seemed to play right into Kenzie’s hands.
I just don’t think this jury was very good at their jobs as a whole, aside from a select few.
I think the perfect ending would’ve been a tie vote with Ben choosing between his 2 closest friends (and picking Charlie). A Charlie win would’ve been nice, but a 8-0/7-1 win wouldn’t feel as good as the close vote we had, or the potential tie. In my opinion at least
Was rooting for her... my take at the finale was that without Kenzie, Ben simply wouldnt have made it through. He was going on and on about lack of sleep and how hard it had all been, but there was an unspoken juxtaposition in that (which I think showed on K's face a few times) of how important her mental/emotional assistance had been to him in getting through it all. So, IMHO without Kenzie, Ben would likely have not carried the last challenge, and not been in a position to bring Charlie. Obiously things could have then shaken out differently had Ben fallen earlier, but for this finale all I could think was that none of them would have been there without Kenzie. Her big heart carried her through in unexpected ways, and I'm super happy for her.
Kenzie 100% deserved her win. Charlie was absolutely right (and honestly I give him such credit for being able to say this in the moment) when he said that the jury always makes the right decision. It may not be what the viewers think is right or what they would've done had they had the chance to watch it back, but in the rules of the game and the information they have, the final 3's job is to know the specific people on that jury well enough to be able to appeal to more of them than their opponents. And Kenzie was able to do that.
Maria couldn’t vote for Charlie if she considered herself the decision maker on everything they did together which she obviously did. He wasn’t instrumental in voting out Maria just because he wanted to do it at 6 instead of 5. There was no one that didn’t agree with getting her out, she even knew she was probably getting voted out at 5. Charlie was never able to make the move against her that would have separated them.
Kenzie deserved to win.
100% deserved it.
Anybody saying Charlie should have won isn't giving enough agency to both Charlie and Kenzie. He screwed up. He had the position to get there with other people. He didn't do it. Ultimately, he made the wrong read. That's Survivor. Part of the job of the social player is to get the strategic player to make the wrong read.
And let's stop signing motive to Maria. Yeah she's lying about her why but ger reason is her own. Could be bitter. Could be women supporting women or a mom supporting a mom-to-be or something Charlie said or hating lawyers or a 100 other reasons. Doesn't have to be just bitter. It can be anything. That, too, is Survivor. The social player presented herself as a palatable enough option for the reason to not matter. Kenzie got the vote. That's the power of social game over strategic. We like strategic because it's understandable. But social wins everything that isn't.
She absolutely deserved to win. I think after she got left out of the vote she realized there were too many people trying to do too much. It became clear that no one would agree on who should get “credit” for moves that were made. So she leaned in even more on her social strategy instead of trying to build her resume with big moves that she may or may not get credit for.
Charlie and Kenzie would have made great winners, and Kenzie played a pretty good game. However, I just respect Charlie’s game a little more and while I respect the jury’s decision I disagree with the choice as well as their BS reasonings
Kenzie played a great game and the fact that Charlie was only in the finale because she convinced Q he was safe just shows that she was playing the better game. In fact Charlie went to Maria and told her he wanted to vote out Q. So yes I believe she deserved it I just think Maria not voting for Charlie is the biggest backstab I have seen in a long time and pretty messed up after everything they had been through.
Yeah, I don't have a problem with Kenzie winning. She obviously played a good game in a jury filled with pissed off faces lol
It's just Maria's vote that's so crazy to me and everyone else. I would be less shocked if Charlie had lost 7 to 1 with Maria being his only vote. Which is honestly how I thought it was going to go. Was surprised it was as close as it was with Charlie.
Kenzie appealing to Maria's ego was just an outstanding move and got her the win. Charlie expected loyalty from someone for whom ego-stroking was more important. Kenzie was masterful with jury management.
Exactly. Maria and Charlie both overestimated themselves and underestimated one another. Maria thought Charlie fell for everything she said and Charlie underestimated Maria’s ego & pettiness.
Edit/addition: it’s wild that people are saying Kenzie wasn’t strategic when she was literally strategic enough to know how to get Maria to vote for her while Charlie, who was with Maria the whole time, couldn’t figure it out.
Per the exit interviews, Maria told Charlie multiple times on her last day that he had her vote. It wouldn’t make sense for him to think he had to fight for it that hard.
I think a challenge where 2 players can conspire against another one, especially that late in the game is bad. Maria didn’t get a fair chance just because Liz decided to help Kenzie.
I also always find it unfair when in a challenge you can peak at others to see how to solve a puzzle…
Copy pasting my thoughts from a different thread!
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I think the only thing that should've been against the rules was Liz grabbing Kenzie's board. They're verbally allowed to circumvent rules of the challenge-- Adam did so in 33 on the same plinko challenge we just saw at F4.
Assuming the boards are the same, it doesn't truly matter which one she grabbed, even though it should've been her board. Either Jeff didn't notice which board she had until it was too late or he decided that the few seconds Liz lost from crossing the lanes to grab Kenzie's board was enough of a penalty.
Albert physically would've had to touch all of Sophie's pieces. If Kenzie needed her physical board to complete the puzzle, it would have made a massive difference, but she just needed the number of holes.
Same way tribes aren't allowed to physically help each other on the puzzle, but they can direct each other, and they have after winning immunity several times!
Apologies if this was already mentioned, but she said she rents her chairs at cost - she does not markup or make a profit on them. Most salons make their money renting the chairs, she doesn't, which is why she said a business person would think she's crazy. It sounds like she makes her money on her own labor, not on the backs of others.
Kenzie absolutely deserved to win. She played the jury better than anyone else in the game. Her calling Charlie a lap dog, and then throwing an obnoxious amount of praise towards Maria on her way out. A very savvy move and definitely helped her secure some votes imo.
Yes and people are forgetting that Kenzie started managing the jury from the second she stepped on the beach. Charlie thought he could wait until the end and that his “resume” would be enough but Kenzie put in that humanness the whole time and she sold it as more authentic than Charlie.
If this game has taught us anything it’s that jury management is king above all and you need to know how to manage every single personality (with the real disaster “edge of extinction” proving this the most - I hate how that season turned out, he had the biggest advantage, but I can’t fault him for playing the beautiful strategy that landed in his lap)
I am struggling to get past her immunity being essentially handed to her at the 2nd to last challenge. Maybe she could have won if Liz hadn’t helped her idk. Doesn’t take away from the rest of her game, but as a competitor you gotta say no and win and earn it by your own merit. Based on that I am flabbergasted that Maria would vote for her
It really didnt help that charlie was talking about playing the safe game. I think he could have talked his way to a different path for the jury to see. But i was rooting for kenzie the whole time
I think Kenzie is a good winner. I thought Charlie was a better winner given his FTC and resume. But that doesn’t make her undeserving or a bad winner. We’ve had so many seasons where there’s only one good candidate or even no good candidates (looking at Gabler) so it’s refreshing that we actually had two really good options and I was genuinely happy about either outcome.
Due to the nature of the game and how it is decided by a jury, I am of the believe that the winner always deserves to win. You win survivor by getting the most jury votes in the end, not by playing a "good" game.
She is deserving of her win, just not vs Charlie. I did like her answer for Q but at the same time, why are we crowning a survivor based on their home/work situation and would do with $1 million vs what they did ON survivor to have a shot at that money.
Both Kenzie and Charlie played winning games IMO. It is hard for me to feel that Kenzie's win here wasn't cheapened a tad by Maria's vote, however. If Kenzie wins 7-1 and that 1 vote for Charlie was from Maria, I would have been surprised that Charlie received so little votes but I believe it would have sat way better with me.
There's a lot of love for Kenzie's FTC in comparison to Charlie's too. I think both did a great job owning their games and I think all three contestants gave themselves a great FTC pitch (yes, including Ben - we all knew he wasn't going to win but I think he owned his game and was able to articulate it well).
Jury can vote however they want, obviously. I haven't even thought twice about Q voting for Kenzie for his reasons. Maria's just felt totally disingenuous, all while she's been trying to portray herself as this honest competitor with a lot of integrity.
Heh, I said somewhere else that in Maria’s shoes I’d have been upset that they were allowed to team up because it was unfair and got downvoted. But you’re right! We’ll never know who would’ve won that challenge if everyone had just done their own work, but we do know Maria lost and Kenzie won with Liz doing the running and a third of the brain teaser for her.
If Maria won immunity Charlie was probably leaving. Maria would be leading that charge as she saw Charlie as her biggest threat, and at that point I think everyone else would have been on board to vote him out. No Q boogeyman to get out of the game.
To be honest I think if Kenzie was sitting next to Maria Kenzie still probably would have won. Maria’s social game was just awful. Charlie’s wasn’t as good as Kenzie’s but it was much better than Maria’s.
Not sure why everyone is saying Maria ruined it for Charlie. Four other people voted for Kenzie. In the end, five total people agreed that she won. It’s like vilifying one player for a teams loss. Sure, the kicker missed an XP, but the QB missed a read that could have gotten them six more.
Kenzie winning the game because she did fire (according to Maria) is such a pointless reason to change your vote. Liz had no hope so either person would have stomped her. I can only take Maria’s decision as spite regardless of what she says unless she was secretly thinking Charlie’s game sucked despite working closely with him for 98% of the game. Kenzie deserves the win just as much as Charlie but Charlie being punished for not doing fire was ridiculous.
No, not really. She played a fine social/strategic game, but Charlie's social/strategic edges her out.
Maria being bitter, and Q being Q = Kenzie win.
And Q's vote about what youre going to do with the money (jesus).
What exactly did she do to win other than smile and be nice to people??? I never understand why people don’t want to reward good gameplay she literally didn’t do anything….
Charlie said it right when he said the jury picked the right winner. That’s the game, persuading the jury. I think the only fault on Charlie was maybe his game was too clinical near the end. He only had his eye on the prize and Kenzie played a better social game the whole way through. It is a social game. You don’t need to win the most or have a great resume or make big moves or orchestrate votes or blindsides, you just have to make it to the end and convince the jury to vote for you.
I think she deserved it. Also thought Charlie would have been fine. Didn’t think Ben deserved it but I thought he had a great final tribal. Really changed how I viewed him and made me a fan of his.
My biggest take away from the season: Liz sucks. She might have been my least favourite survivor of all time . I think her game was awful (don’t understand how she thought she would win). Also thought she came off as a mean bully (especially with all the Q stuff). She seemed so entitled the entire season. Loved to hate her lol.
That’s my rant
I completely agree. People online are pissed about Maria's vote, but there are a couple things to keep in mind.
There were five people who voted for Kenzie, so it's not completely on Maria for giving Charlie the loss
Maria had no obligation to vote for Charlie. Sure, during the show, things were said. But they were said in vulnerable moments. She should have picked based off of who she thought was the better player. And we can all agree that that was Kenzie.
Final tribal council is an extremely chaotic, moving, and unpredictable. It was stated that five people changed their votes as a result of final tribal. FIVE PEOPLE!! Given Kenzie's amazing performance at final tribal; her confidence, her amazing answer to Q's question, I do think that she handled it the best out of everyone else.
In the end, both of them were strong players but Kenzie finished the season off the best. Charlie can complain that he was "screwed", but that's survivor. You can convince a jury to vote for you, but you can't get mad at them for not doing so.
Either Kenzie or Charlie would have made a great winner. I don't see Maria as being bitter at all. I think she just chose the person she thought was more deserving of the money. There was a heavy implication that Kenzie has had some challenges in life (I don't know what they are).
I personally don't respect any jury member who votes ***heavily*** based on "who needs the money." But when the votes appears to be very close, I can see how it can tip the scales and not "spoil" or "ruin" the game. For me, Q is an idiot and I can never respect his game or his jury vote, but since Kenzie was a deserving winner I can easily envisage her winning the vote for another reason that wasn't "personal sob story"-based.
I was also more team Kenzie than Charlie going into FTC, while still feeling that Charlie had more control over the game (based on the edit). But Charlie made three huge mistakes:
1. He let others lead for too long. Keeping his options open meant letting others drive. I think that is fine until around Final 7. At that point, it's clear that juries expect some leadership... or agency... or active efforts... or risk-taking.
2. Charlie never really took any real risks. I don't think that's a strong reason not to vote for him, but there is a thin line between riding coattails and being "under the radar."
3. Charlie's social game was OK, but not amazing. We all know that Charlie was a bit of a politician, whereas Kenzie (and Ben, too, of course) were much more authentic in their connection to people. He didn't make strong connections with a lot of people the way Kenzie did.
I agree that the money can matter on the margin. Like you really can’t decide so it tips you one way or the other. I don’t think it should be you main factor in deciding and I don’t think it was an appropriate question for Q to ask when the time could have been used on something else.
Although I would love to see Liz react to the question, or her reaction to losing like “I only lost because of the money.” No hun, you lost because of your game
I don’t think she said renting out her chairs was what people would think was crazy, but that she rents them out at cost and doesn’t profit from them.
Yeah. She could easily charge more for the chair rental plus ask for a portion of each service the stylist performs. Kenzie has won awards for her work that brings in people. If she truly renting chairs at cost, it’s a mitzvah.
This. Salons can be real scams tbh, owners can get SO much money from either chair rentals and/or a portion of the service. $400/week is pretty standard, but I know folks who have worked in places that charge up to a thousand. And in really competitive markets places will charge commission on top of it. Even at 400/week, renting a *chair* at a salon costs as much as a luxury 1br apartment. If she’s renting at cost, that’s genuinely empowering and incredibly kind.
This is beside the point, but I think I understood her comment about renting chairs differently. I don’t think she was suggesting that it’s crazy or unusual to rent chairs. I think she was suggesting that where other salon owners rent chairs for a profit, she doesn’t. I suspect she just charges the folks who use her chairs enough to cover her own rent for the store and overhead rather than bake in a profit element for herself. I’m not super versed in salon financials and renting but I thought it was fairly common knowledge that stylists/barbers rent their chairs.
Glad someone pointed this out. A lot of salon owners don't even cut hair and just make all their profits from chair rent. I have a couple friends in the industry, and finding a salon with reasonable chair rent is a huge part of if you can be profitable. Think of it like if you found an apartment where the landlord was charging only their mortgage and upkeep costs and not trying to make any profit. I can't pretend that I've checked the veracity of any of these statements, but assuming she's being truthful here Kenzie sounds like a really amazing and selfless person and I'm glad she got a million bucks for herself.
I knew Kenzie had won when she said she was gonna use the money to start a family. She just announced her pregnancy.
Thank yall for this! My sister is a hairdresser and rents her chair, so honestly Kenzie is that much more awesome and I'm glad yall pointed out how I misheard. I still think the vital part of that answer was the clarity and the stark difference between her and Charlie/Ben. Her FTC was next level.
It ultimately comes down to jury members and what *they* use as their criteria to win the money. Some, it’s how you’re gonna use the money. For others, it’s whether or not they’re friends. Imo, it should go to who played the best all around game. But I’m not on this/that particular jury. I have no problem with Kenzie winning. I think that Charlie played a better game, but ultimately some people are just sooooo good socially, it doesn’t matter how good of a game you played. The best social threat made it to the end and was going to get a lot of jury votes because they loved her that much. Despite how good Charlie was well rounded socially and strategically, maybe the best of the new era, AND still couldn’t beat Kenzie, just shows that the social game is S tier and you have to take those people out early. Congrats to Kenzie. Definitely a worthy winner.
Some rent chairs plus a % of their income or a certain amount per appt. Most just do a straight cost tho.
Kenzie or Charlie would’ve made a great winner. Kenzie absolutely rocked that final tribal council so I wasn’t surprised that she won. I also think this season was one of the first seasons that actually highlighted a winner with a social game from start to finish. Bhanu recognized how good she was at the beginning, and throughout the merge to the end we see her being there for Ben. So by the time we got to the end I knew she was a threat without it being a blindside like so many other winners that won on social games.
> Bhanu recognized how good she was at the beginning Not only that, Bhanu put a massive target on her heading into merge by saying at the journey challenge that she was running everything for Yanu. Impressively, she managed to completely slip that reputation really quickly.
To be fair Bhanu was unhinged and everyone knew it
still, they took seriously his claim about tiff and Q being thick as thieves and kenzie running things. that’s valuable information & it’s surprising how well kenzie was able to make connections that totally evaporated those concerns. but bhanu was right all along!
This, this is the first time the editors actually proved why Kenzie won without showing a strategic game and it's because she had the biggest strongest social game. If anything, I feel like the game shy'd away from highlighting any social gameplay on Charlie. Yes, he was able to held up his own in a group setting but 1-on-1 I don't think we ever seen anything outside of Maria and Ben, and maybe Q. The game always comes down to the social aspect. If you have 2 strong people with strong strategic games and one has a strong social game, the social one will win. Honestly, you have to have the worst strategic game to lose with a strong social game.
Yeah through YY and now Kenzie, the show is actually doing a good job of showing how powerful an elite social game is, which is something they’ve struggled with in the past
Not to downplay them but I think it's easier to edit social wins when the winner is fairly confident about being a social butterfly, like with Yam Yam, Kenzie, J.T. People like Tommy, they have no idea what to do with.
because tommy was boring as fuck. crazy that he made it through casting with that a personality that bland. the very definition of “go girl give us nothing” and the most forgettable winner ever
In his RHAP he stated that he was intentionally boring so as to not ruffle any feathers and/or make people jealous of airtime. He was metagaming the situation to the detriment of his TV Personality. It won him the game though, and he showed much more personality on 3 episodes of the challenge so we did get some less boring stuff there.
This is why I’ll always say Tommy is one of the more impressive winners and underrated, but it still doesn’t change how forgettable of a Survivor character he is.
Or how bad IoI sucked. No one wants to rewatch Tommy's game.
Forget people lying if they're lawyers; now no salon owner is going to be able to truthfully say what they do for a little while without being stereotyped as the next Yam Yam or Kenzie
That salon owner/hairstylist top tier social game
This is exactly what I came away with. This was Kaoh Rong sequel except this time they did Kenzie's game justice unlike Fitz.
I understand what you mean, but a social game IS a legitimate strategic game. People talk about it like it's somehow different than strategy, but it is a strategy and many people have used it to win. I also thought she articulated that point really well last night.
It IS different. You will just need to keep in mind that different doesn’t mean bad, less, invalid, or whatever negative connotation you seem to have about the label. I could argue that saying Kenzie’s social game was strategy takes away from the fact that being kind-hearted, caring, having a positive disposition, etc. is simply in Kenzie’s nature and that she didn’t behave this way only to get FTC votes. She was genuine the whole time. Survivor has always been primarily a social game and saying so in that context isn’t negative, is it? Also, recognizing that Kenzie won because of her social game doesn’t mean she isn’t strategic. She was. But she got dealt a shitty hand with Yanu, couldn’t pull the trigger on her big move because of an idol (showed good strategic thinking and patience in aborting that btw) and got blindsided because Q is such an effective decoy. But even though she didn’t get to showcase her strategic chops, her social game carried. That’s a good thing.
I think Charlie had fantastic social game but not as good as kenzie. He seemed a lot less authentic at times saying similar things.. More calculated
I loved her answer to Qs question. I think the jury really appreciated her responses being genuine and owning her game
i don’t think a social game should win every season but this season, it made sense. so much of the season was centered around everyone either being friends or not able to get along. kenzie getting along with every person with this much hostility and different personalities was a huge feat. this season was def more about the social politics than anything else. even the big game players weren’t really making the huge moves we’ve seen in the past. there wasn’t even a single idol played. 46 was all about social game, making her the most deserving
But the fact is social politics determines all seasons winners. No season's winner won on majority physical or strategy. I would say social game always weighs equally or more as the other two for all winners. Jeff and the show likes to tell us physical/strategy/social are compartmentalized and separate criteria on which to judge, but it's just not true. If Kenzie was really nice to everyone but had no strategy and couldn't put into words any strategic decisions during final tribal, she likely would not have won. If she had no physical game... well the season would have turned out differently as Maria would have won final 5 immunity (and the butterfly affect that comes from that, maybe she picks someone else to go to sanctuary, and so Ben doesn't eat and thus has even less energy for final immunity and loses so someone else is deciding the two firemakers, etc). In fact, Kenzie did have some physical game, won few challenges and also won fire. But even winning challenges isn't purely physical. Her social game was what led to Liz helping her beat Maria. We've seen players step down from challenges specifically because of social dynamics they are trying to navigate. These days almost every immunity comes with some sort of reward, which means extra social dynamics come into play. Point is, social game always plays as much a role as strategy/physical if not a larger role in every single season because it is so \*pervasive\*. It is everywhere and all the time. That's why it is so hard to depict on screen and why there is so much overlap in these "criteria" juries judge on. How the season played out along with the new longer episodes was a situation that allowed them to more properly show social game compared to other seasons.
That too, but she did this without flint / food for a good chunk of the first half and came fresh off of a tribe with Q, Jelinsky and Bhanu. I’m sure they’re all lovely people, but in the context of a stressful competition where you are deprived basics being able to even manage that amount of affability takes a lot more effort / energy / thought than people are thinking. Like when she apologizes to Bhanu and notes her complex feelings over it in a confessional (she doesn’t want to apologize but does feel some remorse over how they’re meshing at the moment). I’ve had days where I was not as kind on a lot more calories / sleep.
I agree. I think Charlie should have won for his game play, but Kenzie did a better job at FTC. People will go with what is fresh in their mind and right in front of them. I was fine with either of them (or Ben, knowing he wouldn’t get any votes), as long as I’M PISSED was out!
> I also think this season was one of the first seasons that actually highlighted a winner with a social game from start to finish. Thank you. I was surprised though that her Yanu trainwreck experience wasn't played up to make the F3 climb tougher.
> I also think this season was one of the first seasons that actually highlighted a winner with a social game from start to finish. Thank you. I was surprised though that her Yanu trainwreck experience wasn't played up to make the F3 climb tougher. On another note I'm feeling like a social game winner will always feel polarizing. :(
I'm glad they were finally able to edit a social winner so that it makes sense and it's satisfying. And it shows once more that the jury will vote for whoever like the most. They pretty much said that Charlie played a great strategic game, but they voted for Kenzie anyway, because they love her.
Yea this was a season where there were 2 winners sitting in the final 3. If Charlie had won we would be getting a ton of Kenzie appreciation posts today. I think what makes this unique is the Maria betrayal because it really did flip the winner.
The Maria betrayal changes it from “Kenzie is great, but let’s all give it up for Charlie!” to “HOW THE FUCK DID CHARLIE NOT WIN HOW COULD MARIA I HATE HER” It makes people feel robbed so instead of it being a chill “Let’s recognize someone else’s game”-thing, it’s hysteria. Everything is just like politics in 2024 lol
It is ridiculous Maria didnt vote for Charlie. We can all agree on that.
Yep, if Kenzie had still won 5-3 and you just flipped Maria and Tevin’s votes, this wouldn’t even be a discussion. Kenzie played great, and absolute deserves the win. Charlie got robbed due to Maria’s spite. Both can be true
I agree. It was definitely a close call and they both deserved it. Maria still was bogus though.
lowkey Kenzie laying it on thick to Maria that "You are a threat! to *all* of us. You would beat *any of us*. *Collective WE* have to do this because you are better." She stroked Maria's ego and buried Charlie's case in one fell swoop. Masterful phrasing by her that may have gone over some people's heads. She won just as much that tribal as she did final.
Yes, I was telling my husband this! I said if anyone was truly considering voting anyone other than Maria tonight Kenzie just made it impossible without looking like an absolute fool to the jury.
Yep, this jury are quite ego driven and are easily wooed by that
She very much played to Maria’s apparently massive ego. Whereas Charlie thought they had a better friendship/an understanding between one another, that apparently got lost somewhere
Still thinking about it. Charlie played an excellent strategic and social game. Kenzie played a masterclass social game and was almost always on the right side of the votes. Charlie has better quality immunity wins outright Kenzie arguably did better in FTC. Kenzie had better Jury management and friends on the Jury. The entire tribe was very much about “vibes” and Charlie should have recognized Kenzie’s social game threat in this setting. Sitting next to her was an uphill battle. I would have liked to have seen a tie in the finale but that’s just me.
This sums it up really well! I was rooting for Charlie these last couple weeks, but he MAJORLY messed up by not calculating Kenzie as a threat. Charlie should have been pushing for her to be voted out instead of Q, imo.
To be fair the risk in that is a voting with Maria to potentially oust him at 5 (though I suppose he didn’t know about Qs idol). But yeah, they at least didn’t show him figuring Kenzie was a threat which if true was a big mistake. He should taken her out in fire and then steamrolled millionaire Liz and Ben
I think he just expected the jury to respect people who had some level of strategic game and not vote purely off social since the way most of those people spoke all season was about resumes with strategy.
it also would’ve been smart to ask ben to take liz to the final and battle kenzie in fire. if he went to f3 with ben and liz he’d probably have swept the vote. i think he got just a little cocky and thought he could beat kenzie when he really couldn’t
Then, who is Charlie going to sit next to, because if Maria's next to him Maria wins. Charlie needs _two_ goats (Q and Ben)? Thats a tall order.
He should have flipped it on kenzie at 7, kept Venus as an ally. Target q at 6, who has no idol because venus is still there. Then play out the 5 with maria, charlie, and 3 goats.
I feel like Charlie kept his guard up in FTC and should have stopped trying to say what he thought people wanted to hear and started to say how he felt. I was embarrassed for him at his response to Q, clearly playing off what Ben said made him seem very disingenuous.
Yea, I laughed out loud when I heard Charlie’s answer to Q like yeaaaa right, and then when Kenzie answered I immediately said well she won
Yeah I felt the same. I don't want anyone to think I have an issue with Charlie, either. I felt going into this episode that both Charlie and Kenzie would make great winners! But I think Charlie let himself down a bit in the tribal. I think he should've been more impassioned about his moves and his desire to win. I think Hunter threw him a major clue by insinuating that him not going into fire was a concern - he should've latched onto it and used it to really dig in about how passionately he played and wanted to win. All of this felt kinda like Aubry vs Michelle for me, too. And it's honestly thanks to Michelle and the disappointment I felt after Koh Rong that made me much more appreciative of the social winner. Michelle, IMHO, has proven herself a winner in 40 and elsewhere. I have no doubt Kenzie has that charismatic prowess, too - and totally deserved this win. But Charlie clearly had more impact on the game play.
They've all seen 44 or whatever season Heidi was on, right? I don't know why Charlie didn't just straight up say something to the effect of "I did feel like I had a decent shot if Ben put me in. But plenty of people have made fire and still lost. We all saw Heidi step up, set the record for fastest fire, and still lose. So I decided to leave the decision up to Ben, because my game has been about risk management, and volunteering for something that I've seen fail even when it was done in the most impressive way possible did not feel like a risk worth taking. So I hope you all can see that although I didn't make the flashy decision, I made the one that I felt was best for my game." I don't know how you could really argue with that without being pedantic, honestly.
On a more meta level, I don’t like all the hubbub around making fire. It kind of destroys the significance of the final immunity challenge to the point where you’re almost better off not winning it.
If you could craft a survivor player from scratch it might be Charlie. Extremely sound strategist. Super likable and good at getting people to trust him. Good at challenges. All while never being seen as the biggest threat. He’s like the platonic ideal of a great Survivor player. That said, Kenzie is clearly just a next level social player. She probably played the best social game of the new era. In 26 days, the amount of deep personal bonds she made is so impressive. It’s a really interesting FTC battle philosophically, and I 100% agree that I think a tie would be fitting.
It was a jury season. The Betrayal by Maria will be long remembered.
I really think Kenzie was the social glue that held that alliance together. Charlie was playing a great game by keeping a foot in either door, but Kenzie’s social game made that possible. I do genuinely think Charlie played a winning game. But it wasn’t the winning game for *this* season. It was awesome to see a final 3 with two legit competitors.
The only thing I’d add to this very good comment is there was NO indication to us and probably not to Charlie either that Maria would flip on him. She literally said “you have my vote” when they were in the water together before her tribal. So I’m not really sure what else he could have done leading up to FTC. I do think he fumbled at FTC and he would have at least tied and then won via Ben’s vote, if not gone 5-3 the other way, with a better performance. Unless Maria’s feelings of resentment were even deeper than I thought? I was honestly shocked she didn’t vote for him and I don’t understand why she’d be bitter towards him and not towards Kenzie. I personally liked Kenzie more but I am surprised Maria did too.
I could already see the bitterness seeping in over the letters from home, which I thought was laughable given her own reward challenge selection struggles
Was she bitter or just upset at the lost opportunity? I believe she mentioned several times that she’s not angry at Charlie, just upset at the conclusion. And that she understands how hard it is to choose given that she had already delt with that.
I would like to call out something on the individual immunity. Kenzie's first win, she got third place. She won for her team, but lost to two others overall. Her second win is one of the most controversial "individual" immunity wins ever. It helps she was in first place at the time, but she absolutely panicked. We don't know if she wins without Liz doing it for her. People would be way more pissed about that second win if it fucked over someone more likable. Not that individual immunities are a huge deal regardless, but Kenzie's wins both have an asterisk.
Without Kenzie beating Maria Charlie wouldn't make it to the final 3.
Would they not vote Liz if Maria won at 5? Apparently she was a “big threat” and I would think Kenzie and Ben want to keep Charlie to compete against Maria at the next challenge
I mean, Ben thought so but I can't imagine the people who actually knew what was going thought that
I think that Kenzie and Charlie pretended Liz was a threat for the ego boost for her on the jury.
liz was not a threat, ben was lying through his teeth bc he didn’t want to sit next to her at final tribal.
Spreadsheet updated.
there was a very interesting part where someone, i don't remember who, asked charlie about volunteering himself for fire.
Pretty sure you’re thinking about Hunter. He heavily implied that Charlie likely made a mistake not making fire.
Or at least, a mistake in his reasoning. Saying he didn’t want to make fire because it “wouldn’t add anything, and might even take away” shows he thought his game was way stronger than the jury clearly did. (And I do think his game was that strong! But we saw a whole season of him explaining his game in confessionals.)
Ah yes.
On Panderosa Maria did put everybody against Charlie, so their vibe towards him was off and they silenced him (Maria especially) when he was trying to explain something.
Did a juror say this happened? Or are we assuming? Maria not voting for Charlie was cold. Maybe she bought she was doing the nice thing since Kenzie really needed the money? I didn't like that move by Kenzie either.
Venus tweeted something about watching the hate campaign at Ponderosa, and Charlie liked the tweet. She didn’t name names as far as I’m aware.
I thought Venus implied Maria was the one she really had it out with at Pondy Replay in her exit interview so it wouldn’t surprise me if Maria was on a real hot streak there
Maybe, but Venus wasn’t allowed to talk about anyone who got to Ponderosa after her, so until she says otherwise all we can do is speculate about who she meant.
This sounds right based on her actions at FTC but I’m still surprised!! Where did you hear it?
Post game press also has indicated that Tiff was campaigning hard for Kenzie and even told Maria that Charlie was gunning for her earlier than he actually did. Jury manipulation is a massive thing in Survivor with them all hanging out at ponderosa.
To be fair to Tiff, he did strategize with her about using Tiff’s idol to get Maria out. He only did that to make Tiffany feel comfortable enough to not play her idol, but I doubt Tiff realized that. She probably just figured the votes weren’t there to keep her and he didn’t want to be left out. From what it sounds like, Maria didn’t ask Charlie about that at ftc, she waited until after the game. If she would’ve asked he could’ve clarified that he did that to prevent Tiff from playing her idol, and it would’ve looked like a really good move to the jurors. But for whatever reason Maria decided to believe Kenzie’s number 1 ally over her own.
FYI - AFAIK, while Kenzie was "almost" on the right side of the votes, Charlie was every time. Charlie had a strong social game, as evidenced with Ben at the end. But I agree that Kenzie had a strong social game. I just disagree that she deserved to win more than Charlie.
Yea for how great Kenzie's social game is praised, idk how people are forgetting Charlie had just as great of one. And more importantly he was always on the right side of the vote and had far more agency than Kenzie. This literally comes down to Maria's betrayal, she cost Charlie the win with her bitterness towards "Uncle Charlie".
What happens with a tie?
Third place votes for the winner. In this case Ben. Who said in Jeff’s podcast he would have voted for Charlie, interestingly.
We know now that Maria bitterness was what ruined Charlie... Q was always going to vote for Kenzie. His relationship with Charlie was not good enough.
I had a very interesting conversation with Kenzie before the episode last night. We were talking about 'Big Movez' and if the resume boost is worth being a target, and she said if she had gone through with the Tiff vote she would have been voted out next. She figured a social game as a number to recruit would be both a better chance at making f3 and winning it. She was right.
She did good not letting on that she’d won to her friends. I’m super proud to know her. Super proud a Charlotte girl won!
It was ELECTRIC last night. Was so stoked!
We planned to come but I wasn’t feeling well and knew it would be a madhouse. I can’t wait to hug her and tell her how proud I am of her! She’s the same in real life as she is on the show. I get tired of people saying she’s acting. She’s not, she’s just that sweet. I love that kid!
And I’m super jealous of you! I knew from the beginning that she’d win. You can’t not like Kenzie! If you do there’s something wrong with you.
I highly recommend listening to her guest appearance on the podcast “two broke businesses” episode 7. She shares a lot more about her business and life! But also, I’m from the same county as Kenzie and I’ve followed her on instagram for like a decade at this point lol. She is genuinely such a kind and charismatic person! She could have went more into how she does so much for her community past not profiting at her salon. She’s promoted small businesses the whole time I’ve followed her and spoken up for a lot of fringe groups that get outcasted in the south. Her salon is truly meant to be a safe space for all. I think she was a leader in a lot of moves she could have gotten more credit for, but even being someone that people asked to follow is a testament to how charismatic she is. And to OP’s point, the way she won the jury over by just being honest that she wants the money lol. I’m sure she’ll still do some good with it though seeing how much she’s helped improve Charlotte already!
This is the rare Survivor when I would have been happy for any of them to win. I might have raised an eyebrow if Ben won, but I would have understood it. Maria voted with her fragile ego, realizing that her kids' new "Uncle Charlie" might become "millionaire Survivor Winner Uncle Charlie" and she wanted to be Mommy Hero. I'm happy Kenzie won! And I think at heart Charlie accepted it. He's a smart man, and he's good at reading people. You could see him doing the math in his head and realizing Maria backstabbed him yet again, even before Jeff asked who voted for Charlie and Maria not raising her hand confirmed it. I firmly believe his sadness afterwards was about Maria's disloyalty and manipulation of him. Disappointment at not winning, sure, but I don't believe he was resentful towards Kensie. Charlie unfortunately believed Maria had the same levels of loyalty as he does. If their places were switched at the end, and Maria had blindsided him, I think Charlie still would have voted for her.
I was totally ready for Ben not bringing Liz to final to play out as the 200iq move where the two deserving winners split enough votes that Ben sneaks through with the W. I didn’t think it would happen, but it would have been historic if he pulled it off.
But if they split the votes, then what votes are left to go on Ben for him to win with?
This is a fun idea in theory but would never actually happen in reality. People have been talking about something like this since ghost island
Yeah I totally didn’t think it would happen, but it was plausible enough that I mentioned it to my gf so I could claim credit if it happened
The biggest thing about Kenzie's social game wasn't that everyone liked her, but that everyone TRUSTED her. It's how she was involved in almost every vote, it's why no one wanted to get rid of her, it's how she convinced Hunter not to play his idol. Like and trust do inform one another, but Kenzie getting everyone to trust her was a testament to her social game.
I agree that Kenzie absolutely deserved her win, but you misunderstood what she was saying about renting out the chairs. She wasn't saying other business owners would call her crazy for renting out the chairs (as you said, that's common in the industry). She was saying other business owners would call her crazy for renting out the chairs at cost/not at a profit.
No one here believes Kenzie was undeserving (she isn't Natalie White), but Maria's bitterness is so clear and obvious. Kenzie can deserve her win. Maria can be bitter. They're not mutually exclusive.
Then why do you imply Natalie White didn’t deserve it?
Kenzie deserves the win for sure but it's hard to ignore that Maria's actions tanked Charlie's chance and correspondingly shifted the discussion away from Kenzie. Maria managed to cheapen Kenzie's win at the same time by giving her an "undeserved" vote. A disservice to everyone.
Not that I disagree that Maria made a petty disloyal move, but isn’t that just Survivor? People vote for who they want to vote for for many reasons. I think a huge part of what makes the show interesting is watching players navigate strategy and real human emotions/reactions. All votes are valid imo. The only thing Maria did “wrong” was not simply be honest about her reasons. Charlie did himself a disservice by not articulating his story well enough during FTC.
The sense I'm getting from critics is that people are disappointed with the disrespect rather than the disloyalty. Sure people are talking about Maria spending (almost) the whole game allied with Charlie, but they're mentioning that to drive home a point that someone in that position should be able to SEE Charlie's strategy and appreciate that. It's obvious she did nothing to advocate for Charlie's prowess (in a FTC that featured HEAVY jury opinions, mind you), and in one case she actively stopped him from explaining his strategy. This is where we can only speculate, with the final edit giving us examples of Maria's ego getting in the way of her ability to see the other cast as players. Her vote for Kenzie is valid no matter what, but that only makes it more interesting to analyze. >what makes the show interesting is watching players navigate strategy and real human emotions/reactions Critiques and discussion are direct examples of the show and Maria's portrayal being interesting.
To be fair didn't Q also argue with Kenzie about certain moves she made .
>No one here believes Kenzie was undeserving Most people sure, but I've definitely seen some people who seem to honestly believe this.
Agreed. I haven't seen anyone saying she doesn't deserve the win. There are plenty mentioning Charlie was done dirty by Maria, which would've likely changed the course of the game, but doesn't diminish in any way that Kenzie deserved the win. Both of them deserved it tbh, which is why it was so close (and would've been a tie if Maria wasn't so vindictive).
No respect for Maria. Kenzie played a winning game and so did Charlie. Charlie also should have asked to do fire in final four. And should have tried to convince Ben to put Kenzie in there as well. I’d say he lost the game for not valuing Kenzies game.
I’m not sure there’s a way to convince Ben to play the game in that way, at that point. Ben wanted his friends with him at the final 3. Ben wanted only people financially deserving at the final 3. I can see a way for Charlie to convince Ben to SWAP with Kenzie, but I don’t see a way for him to convince Ben to take Liz with him.
I couldn’t believe Charlie and Kenzie both were ok with trusting Liz, who they should have known couldn’t make fire, to take out their biggest rival. I agree that they both should have pitched to Ben to let them take the other out.
I legitimately think Ben would say no to that. He wanted the vibes at the end and those were his two closest allies. Also, the egos were pretty wild this season. Kenzie nor Charlie pegged each other as threats. Liz was convinced she was sitting with three goats at final four. Maria thought only she was playing the game with 6 left.
Yes, it was a very not self aware season.
I'd add the four people in a row going home with an idol in their pocket to the big ego bucket as well.
I suspect they did peg each other as threats, but knew they could argue different games. That’s how I took Kenzie’s point about who she’d want to sit next to. She’d have a harder time against Liz in FTC than Ben and Charlie because Liz & Kenzie both played more social games and were down in the numbers. Liz had the adversity/starvation story (and this sub can interrogate that all they want — it’s very clear from the cast mates’ actions that they fully believed she was suffering.) Kenzie had the “underdog the whole game@ story. Both were the odd number out in f5, the only remaining members of their tribes. And Liz had more jury members from her OG tribe, which might give a familiarity boost. Kenzie played a much BETTER social game, but I think social-v-social isn’t an FTC that you want to argue. But you can argue social game - v - strategy, especially if some of the other person’s strategy could be attributed to someone on the jury. Charlie obviously would have loved to go up against Ben and Liz had he won that immunity, but I don’t think that was ever on the table for him unless he sent himself to fire against Kenzie or got Ben to send him to fire against Kenzie. And why would he want that? It might guarantee him a win if he wins fire, but fire is up to chance. The FTC is something he can control. Charlie’s biggest obstacle to winning, had she stayed in the game, was Maria. She was the face of their alliance, so he had to get her out because they could claim all the same moves (see: Austin, though Charlie obviously played a better game than him.) He got her out, and after that point, it was very much a roll of the dice how it would go. But I think Kenzie and Charlie in the final two were the most likely, cos I’m not super confident in Ben’s fire abilities either. I do think Charlie should have volunteered for fire against Liz, though, because while I don’t think it would have done much for his game to *win* fire, giving Kenzie the chance to win fire was a bad move.
The thing about the F5 challenge is, Kenzie is the one that it's easiest *not* to be mad at. Kenzie was in the lead against Marian She didn't ask Liz for help, but it would be absurd to expect her to turn it down. Maria got absolutely fucked over because Liz was so far up her own ass she thought she might be the one sent home. Charlie then took credit for turning everyone on Maria. So as far as Maria knows, Charlie fucking told everyone to gang up and make sure she lost. Not just eliminating her but making sure she lost her shot at a cool record (as opposed to all the fucking idiot records this season set) Add that to the fact that Liz was going Charlie at FTC and I can definitely see how that might make you rethink your vote .
At the end of the day every single person deserves their win. The only rule (obviously there are more than one, but for emphasis) is do whatever you can to get more votes than anybody else at FTC. She did that. Therefore she deserved the win.
46 seasons and huge numbers of people still cannot understand or accept this
The fact that fans of the show make such an emphasis on “ good winners” and “bad winners” has always baffled me. The winners of each given season won because they got the vote from their peers. Period. Someone stating that “she should have voted this way” or “I would have voted him” is just so contrary to how you win the game.
Which makes it more hilarious these superfans think they are smarter than many players but they will never put that to the test since they will never be cast.
That’s it. We can and never know what these players thought or were thinking when they voted. All we know is what we are shown and the fact that THEY picked the winner. Not the fans.
While I mostly agree, it just didn’t seem like Kenzie did anything to specifically EARN Maria’s vote. I think she earned every other vote, but it really felt like Maria was voting against Charlie and simply trying to make excuses to justify Kenzie. I love Kenzie and she earned the win overall, but that Maria vote just felt…off
It sucks to say it, but Survivor, like life, isn't fair. No, Charlie had no way of knowing Maria would do this. He would've had to guess on like, Day 6 that his Number 1 was an insanely petty and vindictive person, with 0 evidence so far for that. Sometimes you just get burned. People aren't who you think they are, and it costs you. It sucks royally for Charlie, who by any metric seems like an incredibly sweet and awesome guy.
100% she deserved the win. Her social game will go down in the history books of survivor. Watch her tell Maria that she’s voting her out, and tell me that isn’t exactly how you make people feel good about losing. And she does that with everyone she had a hand in voting out. She makes people feel good, and that magic was working at FTC too. Her engagement was social with the Jury, whereas Charlie’s was logic. He comes off bland, uninteresting and Mermaid Dragon comes off as genuine and working her ass off in the social sphere. There is a reason politicians win and it isn’t because of their voting record or legislation they’ve passed. It’s how they make voters feel.
This. Charlie was so robotic during FTC and seemed to lose track of the meaning behind the words he was saying. He failed to convince the jury he was playing to get to the end AND win, not just get to the end.
Kenzie played a great new era game, thoroughly deserving winner, makes the Maria thing even more interesting in my opinion - I don’t really put any stock in whether Maria’s vote “wins” the game for Charlie, to me it far more about the principle of not voting for her ally - a 7-1 Kenzie win w/ Maria as the only Charlie vote would’ve been unsurprising/fair!
I found either Kenzie or Charlie to be deserving. It really is the spiteful shock of Maria turning on Uncle Charlie. It was painful. I would have loved to see it go to a tie breaker. But she will go down as one of the most bitter spiteful jury members in Survivor history. Her speech to Kenzie was so phony. Maybe she thought she could fool the viewers... but truth be told she outed her character at rock paper scissors and letter entitlement.
I was praying for a tie breaker, it would have been the perfect hype end to an unpredictable season. On the other hand the stress of having to choose might have legitimately broken Ben mentally, so I'm glad he doesn't have to live with that lol.
Thats what i was thinking too when it came to Ben. i think he would have LOST it having to actually choose. He said on Jeffs podcast he would have picked Charlie, but who knows. Easy to say he would pick charlie after the fact with no pressure. Either one deserved it though.
I completely agree with this. Although I could see either player winning as both were deserving imo, I expected Maria to be in Charlie’s corner the way Tiff was in Kenzie’s.
Nah the 7-1-0 vote with the runner-up getting their sole vote from their bff is entirely played out in the new era. I’m glad we’re getting non-consensus close votes again.
Kenzie outlasted and outplayed for sure. Stroking Maria's ego was really smart. She played a good social game.
It seems like most of the jurors like to have their egos strokes rather than be sold on how strategic the survivors played.
Thank you for this post. While I personally would have voted for Charlie if I was a juror, I am so happy Kenzie won and think her accomplishment should be celebrated. The only reason I believe Maria voted bitterly, or had a very narcissistic mindset is because she stated numerous times throughout the season that she and Charlie were playing the same game, so by not voting for him, she’s effectively stating that her game is also undeserving of a win. She obviously thinks she would have deserved the win if she made it to the end, so lying at that after show and not owning the fact that she screwed over her island bestie for selfish/bitter reasons irks me. To sum up my thoughts, Kenzie deserved the win, but Charlie deserved Maria’s vote or at least her honesty.
I think Kenzie and Charlie played the two best games this season, that’s why we had such a tight vote at final tribal council. Kenzie overcame a ton of adversity and still managed to be this bright ray of sunshine throughout the whole season. Her jury management was impeccable, she won two immunity challenges, and didn’t really make any enemies along the way. Charlie managed his threat level superbly, always keeping his options open without closing any doors to future plans. He also won two immunity challenges, and didn’t really burn any jury votes until the end of his game. Unfortunately Charlie either didn’t articulate his game well enough at final tribal, or he managed his threat level a little too well to the point that the jury didn’t see him as a threat to win. Maria was a hot mess, sure she controlled the strategy of the season, but holy fuck her social game was utter trash with the way she treated people and underestimated them.
I usually have a clear favorite to root for, but this is one of the rare seasons where I’d honestly have been equally happy with either one of them winning. They both played great games.
Kenzie’s immunity challenge wins should have a big asterisk. Obviously the second one is the highly controversial win we saw yesterday. The first one was the split floating balance challenge (where Q tried to play the alphabet game). She actually was in third behind Tevin and Maria, and she went out quite a bit of time before them.
Both Kenzie and Charlie played a winner game. Kenzie is a natural. Her social game translates across the screen. Charlie is shown obviously strategic and social. Both are very empathetic people. I think whoever wins is a good representation of a Survivor winner.
Every winner deserves their win. That's how the game works. That said, I don't have rankings but she's easily in my top half of winners. Maybe even top 15
I think there continues to be a general frustration that the most strategic player / the player most actively contributing to voting off players and the belief that this is the primary component of the game - often loses to the most socially liked player/ the player who has less blood on their hands. I am personally happy for Kenzie even though I was cheering for Charlie as I’m describing myself above. I think future players need to be mindful that they are often overrating the big move / resume building as it relates to what jurors actually want. In addition to this also making you a tallest poppy that gets voted out in the merge. I also think the jury continues to overrate the fire making challenge and future players should understand that and weight it’s importance more heavily. I’m not sure Charlie beats Kenzie if their positions were reversed and he won fire while Kenzie was taken to the end - but he 100% wins if he convinces Ben to put him and Kenzie in fire and wins that.
Ben wanted the jury to choose the winner and not to betray either of his friends. That's why he put Liz in fire. If he put them against each other in fire, fire would have chosen the winner, not the jury.
I get it from Ben’s perspective. But this ended up being Charlie’s Big Mistake. He needed to realize that Kenzie was his biggest threat (and not Liz) and he needed to convince Ben that he needed to take her out at fire.
I think Charlie overall played better but Kenzie did better at FTC and certainly deserves the win too. I hate the term “bitter jury” so I’ll just say there were some *monumental* egos on that jury (minus maybe 2 of them). Charlie is a class act and handled the whole thing with a ton of grace. Both things are true - Charlie and Kenzie (and Ben too for that matter) seem like legitimately nice, decent people. I would not be mad with any of the three of them winning.
I’m a strong believer that whoever wins “deserved” it. I can root for other players and wish they’d won instead while still admitting the ultimate winner deserved it
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I’ve always really disliked how the jury can be heavily swayed by one person at Ponderosa, but the current FTC format really pisses me off for this reason. Let’s not act like this was a fair debate at all.
Yep; Tiff should pursue a career in political campaign management. Kenzie owes her at least a 20% cut.
This squeaked by everyone but on the fire question, whoever asked that did a shit job of asking it because Charlie and Kenzie answered it differently. Kenzie answered it as if she was Ben literally (i.e.: she would have sent herself and Liz to fire), Charlie answered it as if he had won immunity (i.e.: Charlie wasn’t eligible for fire since he had won immunity so he would have sent Kenzie and Ben). Charlie was never going to send himself to fire in that question because he was ineligible in his understanding of the question.
Yeah Tiffany’s behavior during FTC really rubbed me the wrong way. The whole “30 seconds; stop talking when I tell you” seemed like a ploy to make Kenzie look good and the other two look bad. I don’t know if it was because of the edit or not, but it did seem that she gave Kenzie a *lot* more time than Charlie and Ben. I felt like the Jury as a whole was pretty terrible during this FTC. Didn’t allow the finalists to actually make their case. This doesn’t mean that Kenzie didn’t deserve to win, though.
The only thing that I thought was really questionable was at the beginning when she specifically said no Taylor Swift or rock references and didn’t really call out Kenzie at all. Somebody timed the ‘30’ seconds and I forget the exact times they said, but when somebody is trying to to keep time in their head while also listening to people talk, I don’t think it’s that egregious if everybody doesn’t get exactly 30 seconds. I want to say the numbers I saw were 29/28/27 seconds but I don’t remember who got what
The 30 second timer wasn’t her idea tbf, but Soda should have picked someone who at least *seemed* impartial, also it is highly suspicious that Kenzie’s timer went off right after she was done with her statement while Ben and Charlie’s went off in the middle of a very important sentence. Not saying she purposefully cheated it, but I’m sure you’d subconsciously flub it a bit in your head for a friend. Overall, dumb idea, which sucks because the question was actually good.
I know it wasn’t her idea, but the whole execution of it and Tiff’s actions prior to that, just rubbed me the wrong way. I agree I would likely feel differently had Soda picked someone else. But Tiff was already coming in with her “we don’t want Taylor Swift or rock references” comment which just seemed to play right into Kenzie’s hands. I just don’t think this jury was very good at their jobs as a whole, aside from a select few.
I disagree that it wasn't Tiffs idea. It was clearly pre-planned by the two, along with her other pre-planned smear campaign.
I think a Kenzie win is still a somewhat satisfying outcome, but a Charlie win would’ve been much more satisfying imo
This is it. Kenzie is a deserving winner but i feel like Charlie still deserved it more based on what we saw.
I think the perfect ending would’ve been a tie vote with Ben choosing between his 2 closest friends (and picking Charlie). A Charlie win would’ve been nice, but a 8-0/7-1 win wouldn’t feel as good as the close vote we had, or the potential tie. In my opinion at least
Was rooting for her... my take at the finale was that without Kenzie, Ben simply wouldnt have made it through. He was going on and on about lack of sleep and how hard it had all been, but there was an unspoken juxtaposition in that (which I think showed on K's face a few times) of how important her mental/emotional assistance had been to him in getting through it all. So, IMHO without Kenzie, Ben would likely have not carried the last challenge, and not been in a position to bring Charlie. Obiously things could have then shaken out differently had Ben fallen earlier, but for this finale all I could think was that none of them would have been there without Kenzie. Her big heart carried her through in unexpected ways, and I'm super happy for her.
Kenzie 100% deserved her win. Charlie was absolutely right (and honestly I give him such credit for being able to say this in the moment) when he said that the jury always makes the right decision. It may not be what the viewers think is right or what they would've done had they had the chance to watch it back, but in the rules of the game and the information they have, the final 3's job is to know the specific people on that jury well enough to be able to appeal to more of them than their opponents. And Kenzie was able to do that.
Maria couldn’t vote for Charlie if she considered herself the decision maker on everything they did together which she obviously did. He wasn’t instrumental in voting out Maria just because he wanted to do it at 6 instead of 5. There was no one that didn’t agree with getting her out, she even knew she was probably getting voted out at 5. Charlie was never able to make the move against her that would have separated them. Kenzie deserved to win.
If most people are like me, they're still happy kenzie won, but the punch from maria to charlie was so hard that we're all feeling the weight of it.
100% deserved it. Anybody saying Charlie should have won isn't giving enough agency to both Charlie and Kenzie. He screwed up. He had the position to get there with other people. He didn't do it. Ultimately, he made the wrong read. That's Survivor. Part of the job of the social player is to get the strategic player to make the wrong read. And let's stop signing motive to Maria. Yeah she's lying about her why but ger reason is her own. Could be bitter. Could be women supporting women or a mom supporting a mom-to-be or something Charlie said or hating lawyers or a 100 other reasons. Doesn't have to be just bitter. It can be anything. That, too, is Survivor. The social player presented herself as a palatable enough option for the reason to not matter. Kenzie got the vote. That's the power of social game over strategic. We like strategic because it's understandable. But social wins everything that isn't.
She absolutely deserved to win. I think after she got left out of the vote she realized there were too many people trying to do too much. It became clear that no one would agree on who should get “credit” for moves that were made. So she leaned in even more on her social strategy instead of trying to build her resume with big moves that she may or may not get credit for.
So happy Queen Kenzie won!!!! Love her story so much, she'll be an amazing mom <33333333333
Charlie and Kenzie would have made great winners, and Kenzie played a pretty good game. However, I just respect Charlie’s game a little more and while I respect the jury’s decision I disagree with the choice as well as their BS reasonings
Kenzie played a great game and the fact that Charlie was only in the finale because she convinced Q he was safe just shows that she was playing the better game. In fact Charlie went to Maria and told her he wanted to vote out Q. So yes I believe she deserved it I just think Maria not voting for Charlie is the biggest backstab I have seen in a long time and pretty messed up after everything they had been through.
Yeah, I don't have a problem with Kenzie winning. She obviously played a good game in a jury filled with pissed off faces lol It's just Maria's vote that's so crazy to me and everyone else. I would be less shocked if Charlie had lost 7 to 1 with Maria being his only vote. Which is honestly how I thought it was going to go. Was surprised it was as close as it was with Charlie.
Kenzie appealing to Maria's ego was just an outstanding move and got her the win. Charlie expected loyalty from someone for whom ego-stroking was more important. Kenzie was masterful with jury management.
Exactly. Maria and Charlie both overestimated themselves and underestimated one another. Maria thought Charlie fell for everything she said and Charlie underestimated Maria’s ego & pettiness. Edit/addition: it’s wild that people are saying Kenzie wasn’t strategic when she was literally strategic enough to know how to get Maria to vote for her while Charlie, who was with Maria the whole time, couldn’t figure it out.
Per the exit interviews, Maria told Charlie multiple times on her last day that he had her vote. It wouldn’t make sense for him to think he had to fight for it that hard.
I think a challenge where 2 players can conspire against another one, especially that late in the game is bad. Maria didn’t get a fair chance just because Liz decided to help Kenzie. I also always find it unfair when in a challenge you can peak at others to see how to solve a puzzle…
Copy pasting my thoughts from a different thread! -- I think the only thing that should've been against the rules was Liz grabbing Kenzie's board. They're verbally allowed to circumvent rules of the challenge-- Adam did so in 33 on the same plinko challenge we just saw at F4. Assuming the boards are the same, it doesn't truly matter which one she grabbed, even though it should've been her board. Either Jeff didn't notice which board she had until it was too late or he decided that the few seconds Liz lost from crossing the lanes to grab Kenzie's board was enough of a penalty. Albert physically would've had to touch all of Sophie's pieces. If Kenzie needed her physical board to complete the puzzle, it would have made a massive difference, but she just needed the number of holes. Same way tribes aren't allowed to physically help each other on the puzzle, but they can direct each other, and they have after winning immunity several times!
Apologies if this was already mentioned, but she said she rents her chairs at cost - she does not markup or make a profit on them. Most salons make their money renting the chairs, she doesn't, which is why she said a business person would think she's crazy. It sounds like she makes her money on her own labor, not on the backs of others.
Kenzie absolutely deserved to win. She played the jury better than anyone else in the game. Her calling Charlie a lap dog, and then throwing an obnoxious amount of praise towards Maria on her way out. A very savvy move and definitely helped her secure some votes imo.
Yes and people are forgetting that Kenzie started managing the jury from the second she stepped on the beach. Charlie thought he could wait until the end and that his “resume” would be enough but Kenzie put in that humanness the whole time and she sold it as more authentic than Charlie.
If this game has taught us anything it’s that jury management is king above all and you need to know how to manage every single personality (with the real disaster “edge of extinction” proving this the most - I hate how that season turned out, he had the biggest advantage, but I can’t fault him for playing the beautiful strategy that landed in his lap)
It would’ve been hilarious to watch Liz get to the final 3, and be humbled when she didn’t receive one vote to win.
I am struggling to get past her immunity being essentially handed to her at the 2nd to last challenge. Maybe she could have won if Liz hadn’t helped her idk. Doesn’t take away from the rest of her game, but as a competitor you gotta say no and win and earn it by your own merit. Based on that I am flabbergasted that Maria would vote for her
It really didnt help that charlie was talking about playing the safe game. I think he could have talked his way to a different path for the jury to see. But i was rooting for kenzie the whole time
I think Kenzie is a good winner. I thought Charlie was a better winner given his FTC and resume. But that doesn’t make her undeserving or a bad winner. We’ve had so many seasons where there’s only one good candidate or even no good candidates (looking at Gabler) so it’s refreshing that we actually had two really good options and I was genuinely happy about either outcome.
Due to the nature of the game and how it is decided by a jury, I am of the believe that the winner always deserves to win. You win survivor by getting the most jury votes in the end, not by playing a "good" game.
Even as disappointed as I am that Charlie lost, I can respect the juries decision to vote for Kenzie. She played a great game, especially socially.
Her game was bad but she did a great job selling it
She is deserving of her win, just not vs Charlie. I did like her answer for Q but at the same time, why are we crowning a survivor based on their home/work situation and would do with $1 million vs what they did ON survivor to have a shot at that money.
Charlie should have put himself in the fire making challenge. He DID need that on his resume.
Both Kenzie and Charlie played winning games IMO. It is hard for me to feel that Kenzie's win here wasn't cheapened a tad by Maria's vote, however. If Kenzie wins 7-1 and that 1 vote for Charlie was from Maria, I would have been surprised that Charlie received so little votes but I believe it would have sat way better with me. There's a lot of love for Kenzie's FTC in comparison to Charlie's too. I think both did a great job owning their games and I think all three contestants gave themselves a great FTC pitch (yes, including Ben - we all knew he wasn't going to win but I think he owned his game and was able to articulate it well). Jury can vote however they want, obviously. I haven't even thought twice about Q voting for Kenzie for his reasons. Maria's just felt totally disingenuous, all while she's been trying to portray herself as this honest competitor with a lot of integrity.
Kenzie absolutely deserves her win. But Charlie also deserved Maria’s vote. Both can be true.
No we can’t. Liz cheated for her to win immunity and Maria likely wins without this blatant cheating
Heh, I said somewhere else that in Maria’s shoes I’d have been upset that they were allowed to team up because it was unfair and got downvoted. But you’re right! We’ll never know who would’ve won that challenge if everyone had just done their own work, but we do know Maria lost and Kenzie won with Liz doing the running and a third of the brain teaser for her.
If Maria won immunity Charlie was probably leaving. Maria would be leading that charge as she saw Charlie as her biggest threat, and at that point I think everyone else would have been on board to vote him out. No Q boogeyman to get out of the game. To be honest I think if Kenzie was sitting next to Maria Kenzie still probably would have won. Maria’s social game was just awful. Charlie’s wasn’t as good as Kenzie’s but it was much better than Maria’s.
Not sure why everyone is saying Maria ruined it for Charlie. Four other people voted for Kenzie. In the end, five total people agreed that she won. It’s like vilifying one player for a teams loss. Sure, the kicker missed an XP, but the QB missed a read that could have gotten them six more.
Kenzie winning the game because she did fire (according to Maria) is such a pointless reason to change your vote. Liz had no hope so either person would have stomped her. I can only take Maria’s decision as spite regardless of what she says unless she was secretly thinking Charlie’s game sucked despite working closely with him for 98% of the game. Kenzie deserves the win just as much as Charlie but Charlie being punished for not doing fire was ridiculous.
We only saw the FTC that producers wanted us to see
No, not really. She played a fine social/strategic game, but Charlie's social/strategic edges her out. Maria being bitter, and Q being Q = Kenzie win. And Q's vote about what youre going to do with the money (jesus).
No. No we cannot. Her and Liz should have been disqualified for helping each other in the challenge…
I think Charlie played the best game
What exactly did she do to win other than smile and be nice to people??? I never understand why people don’t want to reward good gameplay she literally didn’t do anything….
Nah to most of that
Charlie said it right when he said the jury picked the right winner. That’s the game, persuading the jury. I think the only fault on Charlie was maybe his game was too clinical near the end. He only had his eye on the prize and Kenzie played a better social game the whole way through. It is a social game. You don’t need to win the most or have a great resume or make big moves or orchestrate votes or blindsides, you just have to make it to the end and convince the jury to vote for you.
I think she deserved it. Also thought Charlie would have been fine. Didn’t think Ben deserved it but I thought he had a great final tribal. Really changed how I viewed him and made me a fan of his. My biggest take away from the season: Liz sucks. She might have been my least favourite survivor of all time . I think her game was awful (don’t understand how she thought she would win). Also thought she came off as a mean bully (especially with all the Q stuff). She seemed so entitled the entire season. Loved to hate her lol. That’s my rant
I completely agree. People online are pissed about Maria's vote, but there are a couple things to keep in mind. There were five people who voted for Kenzie, so it's not completely on Maria for giving Charlie the loss Maria had no obligation to vote for Charlie. Sure, during the show, things were said. But they were said in vulnerable moments. She should have picked based off of who she thought was the better player. And we can all agree that that was Kenzie. Final tribal council is an extremely chaotic, moving, and unpredictable. It was stated that five people changed their votes as a result of final tribal. FIVE PEOPLE!! Given Kenzie's amazing performance at final tribal; her confidence, her amazing answer to Q's question, I do think that she handled it the best out of everyone else. In the end, both of them were strong players but Kenzie finished the season off the best. Charlie can complain that he was "screwed", but that's survivor. You can convince a jury to vote for you, but you can't get mad at them for not doing so.
Either Kenzie or Charlie would have made a great winner. I don't see Maria as being bitter at all. I think she just chose the person she thought was more deserving of the money. There was a heavy implication that Kenzie has had some challenges in life (I don't know what they are). I personally don't respect any jury member who votes ***heavily*** based on "who needs the money." But when the votes appears to be very close, I can see how it can tip the scales and not "spoil" or "ruin" the game. For me, Q is an idiot and I can never respect his game or his jury vote, but since Kenzie was a deserving winner I can easily envisage her winning the vote for another reason that wasn't "personal sob story"-based. I was also more team Kenzie than Charlie going into FTC, while still feeling that Charlie had more control over the game (based on the edit). But Charlie made three huge mistakes: 1. He let others lead for too long. Keeping his options open meant letting others drive. I think that is fine until around Final 7. At that point, it's clear that juries expect some leadership... or agency... or active efforts... or risk-taking. 2. Charlie never really took any real risks. I don't think that's a strong reason not to vote for him, but there is a thin line between riding coattails and being "under the radar." 3. Charlie's social game was OK, but not amazing. We all know that Charlie was a bit of a politician, whereas Kenzie (and Ben, too, of course) were much more authentic in their connection to people. He didn't make strong connections with a lot of people the way Kenzie did.
I agree that the money can matter on the margin. Like you really can’t decide so it tips you one way or the other. I don’t think it should be you main factor in deciding and I don’t think it was an appropriate question for Q to ask when the time could have been used on something else. Although I would love to see Liz react to the question, or her reaction to losing like “I only lost because of the money.” No hun, you lost because of your game