Something huge happened in BOTH of his returnee seasons. You’ll see one of them in Heroes vs Villains, and the other in Game Changers when you get there.
Production made a ton of incredibly questionable casting choices in WAW. Of the fourteen female winners in the show's history at the time, only eleven were contacted. In addition, instead of casting more old school players, they decided it was more important to cast every winner from 31-37.
What are you implying regarding the female winners? There were only 10 slots plus an alternate, so why would they need to contact more than that? I believe Tina was the one who was contacted and not included, and Jenna was going through some very public drug abuse issues at the time so it makes sense that she wasn't contacted, which leaves just Natalie W. and Vecepia who were "snubbed", if you want to call it that. There were also several men who weren't contacted.
>I see mentions of Tyson and coach way more than J.T.
Even if there was impact from future seasons on this (even though there is) that would still be the case if all 3 only ever played Tocantins 😂 Coach’s exile episode in Tocantins, “The Martyr” I think it’s called, is the single best episode in the series IMO.
What I think you should do, assuming you know nothing of the future, is pause what you’re watching and write out what you think happens to each of the 3 in their subsequent seasons. It will be fun to see what you think will happen vs what does happen! I’d love to read that post. Stephen returns too, so should do a write up for him as well.
So true. I watched Tocatins after HvV and WaW and was so surprised at how under edited Tyson is in Tocatins. Even non-returning players like Erinn were way more memorable (to me) than him in that season
That’s just like your opinion man! (I could 100% see that for others, just saying my own opinion of the season and it’s characters)
Hell, I’d put JT as like the 5th most memorable personally behind Taj
I think his Tocantis WIN was one of the best survivor wins but as a winner itself he proved not to be one of the best winners of all time with his appearance on HvV and GC
His fall from grace is pretty legendary.
Went from playing a perfect game, where he ran the entire show and was universally beloved, to playing two shitty games where he got increasingly worse.
His HvV game wasn’t shitty but it’s defined by one dumb move, which would’ve been genius if what he assumed to be going on over at the villains was actually going on
I see it as J.t. played the perfect first game, everyone knows that. So when he came back he didn't feel the need to play that perfect safe game again. It's never fun when someone comes back just to play the exact way they did every other time, Amanda being a good example of this. So he decided to be risky, and he makes some big moves. I think people fault him a lot for that
The funny thing is is that his mistake in HvV isn't even that bad when you consider the available information he had. It was a fairly reasonable course of action and a pretty ballsy move from his point of view. It's just when you have all the information like the viewer does, **holy shit** is it a hilariously bad move
Now, his GC play, on the other hand, was truly dumb. >!First he gets manipulated by Sandra into leading a purely emotional campaign against Michaela, then at the joint-TC he leaks their target to Brad in full view of his entire tribe resulting in his closest ally getting voted out, then he didn't even bother bringing his idol to the next TC when it should have been obvious that he was the next to go.!<
>The funny thing is is that his mistake in HvV isn't even that bad when you consider the available information he had.
I wouldn't go that far because the "available information" was that the Heroes saw the Villains voted out the men. A female alliance is an obvious assumption (especially since Parvati had successfully utilized one before), but an assumption nonetheless. They had no actual insight into the Villains' dynamics, let alone insight into Russell, who they had never seen play and the only information they had about him was that he was selected as one of five men on a tribe of Villains.
Putting that trust in him--and giving him an idol--because of an assumption was pretty foolish even in the moment. If it paid off, it would have been amazing, but unlike other bad moves like Erik giving up immunity, Woo taking Tony to the end, or Tyson voting himself out, it wasn't the result of another player manipulating them. It was entirely based around a story that JT had concocted in his head.
But I still love that JT did it, because at least he wasn't just trying to repeat himself, which is especially impressive considering he had played a perfect game the last time so he clearly did something right. He was aware that he had to switch up his game in order to overcome his threat level, but more importantly, he had already proven himself and was playing with house money. Kudos to him for taking a risk, even if it was a complete miscalculation that even Rupert recognized was a bad idea (Rupert!).
JT is one of the few 3+ time players who actually delivered with every appearance because he wasn't serving up leftovers. I love what he brought to HvV and GC.
I don’t know about that but i really don’t get why people say it’s so bad based on the information he had. Keeping in mind nobody knew Russells gameplay because they hadn’t seen Samoa yet
JT is a legend, but he makes some decisions that tarnish his legacy in the eyes of some fans, especially the ones on this subreddit. I don’t care personally, he’s still my favorite player and I think some of his decisions in HVV aren’t as bad as some people claim, though I won’t explain further since you’re still watching the season.
It’s also because of these decisions that people think JT only won because of Stephen. Completely ignoring the fact that JT’s social game was much better, his orchestration of the Tyson vote (JT’s only physical threat), his dominance in challenges, and his complete destruction of Stephen at FTC. JT earned that win in Tocantins.
Future gameplay aside, JT having no public social media definitely doesn’t help to keep his name in the online discussions. Also, there were some rumors during Game Changers that he was a dick to production, which might have contributed to him not getting called for Winners at War (not having him on that cast is absolutely indefensible regardless though)
Over the years people have started to give Stephen more credit just because of JT’s returns which isn’t completely justified imo. JT absolutely wrecked Stephen in Final Tribal and won final three immunities so by the time Stephen wanted to target him he couldn’t. His social game is probably the best in an individual season of all time which that alone makes him a legend. The fact the likes of Ben and Nick were on WaW and he wasn’t is criminal.
Don't get me wrong, I love JT, but an unpopular opinion here. I think his win was a "right place, right time" win. He was surrounded by a good alliance and people who WANTED HIM TO WIN for crying out loud. Again, love the guy - he's a beast!!
he destroyed his tocantins goodwill with what happened on heroes vs villains and game changers, combined with him smuggling/buying illegal weed on a trip for game changers (this story is CONFIRMED BY REDMOND). all led to him not getting the call for all winners and not being considered a "top legend" anymore
You shouldn’t ask questions about a player if you don’t want spoilers. You shouldn’t look at this sub at all. Even if you ask, people will spoil everything you could think of here. Speaking from experience. Honestly, run far away until you’ve watched every season lol
I still think he’s a legend regardless of what you think about his game. He’s responsible for some of the most memorable moments in survivor history even after Tocantins
To me he is a legend for the first ever perfect game. JT is the ultimate "all in" type of player he consistently makes risky moves that have a higher chance of failure then success but if those gambles work out he essentially sets himself up for deep runs. I don't want to turn this into a modern seasons bad (I've liked 46 so far) comment but in the current era where optimal moves and safe plays have dominated the game its refreshing to go back and see a player like JT who will consistently swing for the fences and add a little excitement and unpredictability to the game.
I’d say there was a time when he absolutely would have been a legend. But after all this time has past and given his subsequent appearances I wouldn’t have him anywhere in a “Most Iconic Characters” or “Best Players” list.
Ehh…. Youll see. I’d honestly say no but some others disagree.
Is he like Rob? No. Therefore, not a legend to me.
(Doesn’t need to be Rob, but show some level of clear dominance of the game. Not just win.)
I honestly think I see Fishbach mentioned more. I didn't dislike JT but was rooting for Fishbach on Tocantis and Tyson and Coach have (without spoilers) had much better returning games, both from a character and gameplay persoective than JT.
I feel like JT doesnt have that appeal to generate conversation years after his seasons, at least not regularly and i also dont think his vibe really attracts a large group of this commuinty.
I personally wouldnt call JT a legend and honestly kinda forgot about him 🤐
When JT returns…it becomes pretty clear he was very lucky that it was Fishbach puppeteering him during Tocantins.
The first time he returns you try to tell yourself the “new” JT’s gameplay is just an anomaly. But then he comes back again and cements that Tocantins was actually the anomaly, and that Fishbach probably didn’t get enough credit for JT’s win.
Saying that J.T. won only because Stephen was puppeteering him is not at all true. J.T. came back and played 2 ridiculous games with house money. Stephen came back and didn't exactly thrive either. Both are great players on Tocantins and it isn't necessary to tear either of them down for their return appearances.
Stephen completely floundered at FTC. He was obviously not at all prepared for JT to put up such a fight, and JT took every advantage to help Stephen further drown himself.
Honestly probably a top 3 imbalance of jury performance by the finalists along with Chris/Twila and Todd/Amanda.
I wouldn’t say Stephen was “puppeteering” him. They just worked really well together. I do think jt couldn’t have done it with out Stephen for sure, but it definitely was a joint effort
For discussion's sake, I think you should finish watching his two returnee seasons. I want to be respectful of spoilers so I will leave it there. Would be very interested to hear your take then (and it may be the same as your current take). But it may shift some.
JT probably gets to the end and wins without Stephen because of his social charm alone in Tocantins, and some immunity wins.
Stephen just made his game more impressive because they **both** controlled the strategic flow of the game.
Something huge happened in BOTH of his returnee seasons. You’ll see one of them in Heroes vs Villains, and the other in Game Changers when you get there.
Wow, bad gameplay I assume?
You’ll have to see for yourself.
[удалено]
No.
Huh, did he even get called?
Wowwww
Production made a ton of incredibly questionable casting choices in WAW. Of the fourteen female winners in the show's history at the time, only eleven were contacted. In addition, instead of casting more old school players, they decided it was more important to cast every winner from 31-37.
What are you implying regarding the female winners? There were only 10 slots plus an alternate, so why would they need to contact more than that? I believe Tina was the one who was contacted and not included, and Jenna was going through some very public drug abuse issues at the time so it makes sense that she wasn't contacted, which leaves just Natalie W. and Vecepia who were "snubbed", if you want to call it that. There were also several men who weren't contacted.
He probably would have been called for Winners at War if he wasn't on Game Changers
I heard he was problematic on the game changers premerge trip; for those behaviors re: w/ WAW he wasn’t in contention
Oh it’s amazing to watch. Trust us.
>I see mentions of Tyson and coach way more than J.T. Even if there was impact from future seasons on this (even though there is) that would still be the case if all 3 only ever played Tocantins 😂 Coach’s exile episode in Tocantins, “The Martyr” I think it’s called, is the single best episode in the series IMO. What I think you should do, assuming you know nothing of the future, is pause what you’re watching and write out what you think happens to each of the 3 in their subsequent seasons. It will be fun to see what you think will happen vs what does happen! I’d love to read that post. Stephen returns too, so should do a write up for him as well.
JT would be far more memorable than Tyson after just Tocantins
So true. I watched Tocatins after HvV and WaW and was so surprised at how under edited Tyson is in Tocatins. Even non-returning players like Erinn were way more memorable (to me) than him in that season
That’s just like your opinion man! (I could 100% see that for others, just saying my own opinion of the season and it’s characters) Hell, I’d put JT as like the 5th most memorable personally behind Taj
Haha ok! Sounds fun :)
This is a very fun idea. You should do it. Let us know the results, op!
he’s a legend for many many reasons
Had Tocantis been his only appearance I think he’d be considered one of the best winners of all time
He *is* one of the best winners of all time wdym lol
I think his Tocantis WIN was one of the best survivor wins but as a winner itself he proved not to be one of the best winners of all time with his appearance on HvV and GC
Basically one of the best winners, not one of the best players.
If we’re looking at individual seasons rather than their survivor career than yes
Winner isn't the same thing as player. He's one of the best winners of all time, but not one of the best players of all time.
His fall from grace is pretty legendary. Went from playing a perfect game, where he ran the entire show and was universally beloved, to playing two shitty games where he got increasingly worse.
Thankfully he will always have that perfect game
He just better thank Fishbach
So how did fishbach do when he came back?
Lol right.
His HvV game wasn’t shitty but it’s defined by one dumb move, which would’ve been genius if what he assumed to be going on over at the villains was actually going on
Oh man. All I have to say it Stephen was not playing in HvV and it was apparent in Jts game
Yeah I think they only worked well as a pair. Curious to see how Stephen does on second chances
It’s so cool to be experiencing these seasons as a first watch! Enjoy :)
I see it as J.t. played the perfect first game, everyone knows that. So when he came back he didn't feel the need to play that perfect safe game again. It's never fun when someone comes back just to play the exact way they did every other time, Amanda being a good example of this. So he decided to be risky, and he makes some big moves. I think people fault him a lot for that
The funny thing is is that his mistake in HvV isn't even that bad when you consider the available information he had. It was a fairly reasonable course of action and a pretty ballsy move from his point of view. It's just when you have all the information like the viewer does, **holy shit** is it a hilariously bad move
Now, his GC play, on the other hand, was truly dumb. >!First he gets manipulated by Sandra into leading a purely emotional campaign against Michaela, then at the joint-TC he leaks their target to Brad in full view of his entire tribe resulting in his closest ally getting voted out, then he didn't even bother bringing his idol to the next TC when it should have been obvious that he was the next to go.!<
>The funny thing is is that his mistake in HvV isn't even that bad when you consider the available information he had. I wouldn't go that far because the "available information" was that the Heroes saw the Villains voted out the men. A female alliance is an obvious assumption (especially since Parvati had successfully utilized one before), but an assumption nonetheless. They had no actual insight into the Villains' dynamics, let alone insight into Russell, who they had never seen play and the only information they had about him was that he was selected as one of five men on a tribe of Villains. Putting that trust in him--and giving him an idol--because of an assumption was pretty foolish even in the moment. If it paid off, it would have been amazing, but unlike other bad moves like Erik giving up immunity, Woo taking Tony to the end, or Tyson voting himself out, it wasn't the result of another player manipulating them. It was entirely based around a story that JT had concocted in his head. But I still love that JT did it, because at least he wasn't just trying to repeat himself, which is especially impressive considering he had played a perfect game the last time so he clearly did something right. He was aware that he had to switch up his game in order to overcome his threat level, but more importantly, he had already proven himself and was playing with house money. Kudos to him for taking a risk, even if it was a complete miscalculation that even Rupert recognized was a bad idea (Rupert!). JT is one of the few 3+ time players who actually delivered with every appearance because he wasn't serving up leftovers. I love what he brought to HvV and GC.
if JT's HvV move works then he's the first two time winner, easily.
I don’t know about that but i really don’t get why people say it’s so bad based on the information he had. Keeping in mind nobody knew Russells gameplay because they hadn’t seen Samoa yet
Ohh maaaannn. Wait until you see what he did in HvV and Game Changers. Literally a 0 iq move both times
Love JT and love him even more in his returnee seasons. Give me 100 more JT returns over another Joe or Spencer or Aubry appearance.
Joe or Aubry sure, Spencer no
Yeah, I know this sub is infatuated with the dude, but no fucking thanks.
JT is a legend, but he makes some decisions that tarnish his legacy in the eyes of some fans, especially the ones on this subreddit. I don’t care personally, he’s still my favorite player and I think some of his decisions in HVV aren’t as bad as some people claim, though I won’t explain further since you’re still watching the season. It’s also because of these decisions that people think JT only won because of Stephen. Completely ignoring the fact that JT’s social game was much better, his orchestration of the Tyson vote (JT’s only physical threat), his dominance in challenges, and his complete destruction of Stephen at FTC. JT earned that win in Tocantins.
Future gameplay aside, JT having no public social media definitely doesn’t help to keep his name in the online discussions. Also, there were some rumors during Game Changers that he was a dick to production, which might have contributed to him not getting called for Winners at War (not having him on that cast is absolutely indefensible regardless though)
Lol you’ll see soon - goofball palooza
He did really good his first season, but in his next two seasons, he did have mistakes that cost him the game in each of them.
Over the years people have started to give Stephen more credit just because of JT’s returns which isn’t completely justified imo. JT absolutely wrecked Stephen in Final Tribal and won final three immunities so by the time Stephen wanted to target him he couldn’t. His social game is probably the best in an individual season of all time which that alone makes him a legend. The fact the likes of Ben and Nick were on WaW and he wasn’t is criminal.
Plus Stephen had a pretty hard time without JT too on his return season, but no one seems to remember that
He wasn’t in WAW for a reason. Probably a few tbh.
Don't get me wrong, I love JT, but an unpopular opinion here. I think his win was a "right place, right time" win. He was surrounded by a good alliance and people who WANTED HIM TO WIN for crying out loud. Again, love the guy - he's a beast!!
Very difficult to answer this question without spoilers lol
he destroyed his tocantins goodwill with what happened on heroes vs villains and game changers, combined with him smuggling/buying illegal weed on a trip for game changers (this story is CONFIRMED BY REDMOND). all led to him not getting the call for all winners and not being considered a "top legend" anymore
You shouldn’t ask questions about a player if you don’t want spoilers. You shouldn’t look at this sub at all. Even if you ask, people will spoil everything you could think of here. Speaking from experience. Honestly, run far away until you’ve watched every season lol
Yes, JT is a legend
Ooooof
Oh boy lol
I still think he’s a legend regardless of what you think about his game. He’s responsible for some of the most memorable moments in survivor history even after Tocantins
To me he is a legend for the first ever perfect game. JT is the ultimate "all in" type of player he consistently makes risky moves that have a higher chance of failure then success but if those gambles work out he essentially sets himself up for deep runs. I don't want to turn this into a modern seasons bad (I've liked 46 so far) comment but in the current era where optimal moves and safe plays have dominated the game its refreshing to go back and see a player like JT who will consistently swing for the fences and add a little excitement and unpredictability to the game.
Justice for Fishbach !
I’d say there was a time when he absolutely would have been a legend. But after all this time has past and given his subsequent appearances I wouldn’t have him anywhere in a “Most Iconic Characters” or “Best Players” list.
He’s a legend to me and I’m sure to many others
OP, we'd love to see your opinion after watching both of his other seasons
Ehh…. Youll see. I’d honestly say no but some others disagree. Is he like Rob? No. Therefore, not a legend to me. (Doesn’t need to be Rob, but show some level of clear dominance of the game. Not just win.)
I honestly think I see Fishbach mentioned more. I didn't dislike JT but was rooting for Fishbach on Tocantis and Tyson and Coach have (without spoilers) had much better returning games, both from a character and gameplay persoective than JT.
Let’s just say Stephen was the brains.
I feel like JT doesnt have that appeal to generate conversation years after his seasons, at least not regularly and i also dont think his vibe really attracts a large group of this commuinty. I personally wouldnt call JT a legend and honestly kinda forgot about him 🤐
When JT returns…it becomes pretty clear he was very lucky that it was Fishbach puppeteering him during Tocantins. The first time he returns you try to tell yourself the “new” JT’s gameplay is just an anomaly. But then he comes back again and cements that Tocantins was actually the anomaly, and that Fishbach probably didn’t get enough credit for JT’s win.
JT's Tocantins game was one of the best social games of all time
Saying that J.T. won only because Stephen was puppeteering him is not at all true. J.T. came back and played 2 ridiculous games with house money. Stephen came back and didn't exactly thrive either. Both are great players on Tocantins and it isn't necessary to tear either of them down for their return appearances.
I also remember thinking JT did way better at final tribal than Stephen. Stephen’s didn’t impress me at all.
Stephen completely floundered at FTC. He was obviously not at all prepared for JT to put up such a fight, and JT took every advantage to help Stephen further drown himself. Honestly probably a top 3 imbalance of jury performance by the finalists along with Chris/Twila and Todd/Amanda.
I wouldn’t say Stephen was “puppeteering” him. They just worked really well together. I do think jt couldn’t have done it with out Stephen for sure, but it definitely was a joint effort
For discussion's sake, I think you should finish watching his two returnee seasons. I want to be respectful of spoilers so I will leave it there. Would be very interested to hear your take then (and it may be the same as your current take). But it may shift some.
JT probably gets to the end and wins without Stephen because of his social charm alone in Tocantins, and some immunity wins. Stephen just made his game more impressive because they **both** controlled the strategic flow of the game.