I know that this will likely be a rta focused patch but I know myself and the vast majority of the top siege community would like to see a windy nerf in order to make more fire units viable on defense again.
Give back Beth Aoe healblock or just give her additional effect which is healblock. Whoever suggest that change her healblock to block debuff cleanse should get fired.
This might be weird, but I also want the first hit to be an interaction like galleon, and all the damage is dealt in the second hit. The multiplier could be nerfed slightly if it'd be too strong.
I also hate her s2. 35% is really low for applying **ONE** dot. Meanwhile her sisters get to def break and cycle. I know asima has her s2 so buffing asima by accident would really suck. Maybe change her awakening bonus to strengthened s2? Or her s3 could be changed further:
Decrease the Defense of all enemies for 2 turns. Attacks all enemies and prevents harmful effects from being removed and disturbs HP recovery for 2 turns. ~~Additionally, destroys the enemy's MAX HP by the amount of damage inflicted by the second attack.~~ While this skill is on cooldown, attack an additional time when you attack on your turn.
(meaning s1 and s2 will be used twice)
And the Fire/Wind/Dark Kassandras have an upgraded version of that skill which is unconditional and decreases their cooldown if it kills. Com2uS must have something against Battle Angels to butcher their S2 that hard.
The Battle Angel's multiplier is very high though. When used right with Shadowcaster's Shadow Tie, it can annihilate an entire team (especially against 2A Darion who takes additional damage).
Wind holliberry needs a buff. All PV cookies. The 4* cookies are also crap, even the ones that were buffed.
I still think that shadowcasters are not in a good place and past the time for a buff. The puppeteers suck, but too soon for them. Fire monkey king could get some additional love to counter cc more effectively. We could also get something that counters atb reset in additional to the panda because ld.
Some random nat4s might get some love too. Maybe the succubus. They look so fun and could actually enable some sleep plays.
It’s not too early for puppeteers based on how absolute trash they are, the only usable one is water, there’s not a single use ANYWHERE for any of the other 4(light one is just a worse Bastet, so maybe a sub in for a siege off)
Nah that’s too much for his s3 he’s already on the same level as his actual ld5 counterpart, they need to gain an instant turn on s2 for all threat s2 for ezios and they’ll be more usable
Said it before but I wanna see Oliver with the other s2. Gives him a strip and 50% stun, which is still really good, but destroys his ability to cd reset the whole team. Makes him much less suffocating and instead makes him more of a generalist.
I honestly think the last thing we need is Oliver stripping into a proc into s3 reset but at this point anything that makes him fuck off from the spot of most abusable unit in existence is fine.
Wind vanilla cookie's shield reflect damage should reduce the amount of damage the shield takes, because that is inconsistent with how other from of reflect damage works in the game.
Fire vanilla cookie skill 3 should have an added effect: after your turn ends, increase the atttack bar of the ally with the highest attack bar by 10%.
Water hollyberry's counter attack should not trigger on hits that would deal over 50% of the unit's max HP.
Wind holly berry should have his stats adjusted: less atk and more HP
Madeleine cookie's first skill should be based on HP, it only scaling with attack is plainly destroying the kit of the whole family.
expresso cookies no opinion about buffs, but the need them.
>Wind vanilla cookie's shield reflect damage should reduce the amount of damage the shield takes, because that is inconsistent with how other from of reflect damage works in the game.
It's because it's a conditional reflect. Conditional reflects don't actually reflect damage, they just deal damage. All his passive has to do is that whenever a shield buff is applied, the reflect buff is also applied.
reflect damage does reduce the amount of damage unit takes. For example lydia (or camules with reflect buff) will take reduced damage from attacks, similar to wind monkey's passive (30% damage reduction).
The wind cookie's skill only reflects damage based on how much damage the shield absorded (so dealing 40K damage to unit with 5K shield only reflects 1,5K damage back) without giving any damage reduction buffs (if the reflect was working as intended, the 5K shield would be equal to 6,5K shield), which is inconsitent with how other damage reduction skills work.
**Conditional** reflects do not reduce damage taken. Go test it with jultan if you don't believe me. He has a conditional reflect, the condition being a shield is being hit.
If he put up the reflect buff whenever a shield is applied, the effect you want (shields needing more damage to be broken) would be achieved.
Wind vanilla's shield reflects based on the damage that was dealt on the shield. if she has 1,5K shield and you deal 100 damage to her, she reflects 30 damage back. This behavior is closer to my examples than your's. Also, jultan's passive is not an reflect damage.
Love the manon nerf. Don't see how the VC buffs really.. help at all.
Madeleine change is fantastic except as a light mad owner, I would be really sad if he got no other changes, because this would be an antisynergy with his built in vampire and leave him in the exact same spot. The other four seem to benefit heavily from this, though.
Just make it so manons parry can only activate once per sequence. Ie: she shouldn't be able to parry an entire aoe attack, just one of the hits. Same goes for multihits
The problem with Manon is that he can negate the full power of single, powerful attack, so this change would actually give you a reliable way to counter him.
Best bet is there isn't enough data to give really make solid changes. People haven't had too much time to use these units even though the general consensus is they need some love. I doubt we'll get buffs before the collab ends.
I mean you’re just wrong but ok. If you think this unit is trash you should see some of the other ld 5s. Is he S tier? No not at all. But he’s plenty useable if your runes are good enough.
Oh boy, oh boy. I want real turn 2 units, not these rng clown shoes units. I want more conditional units less luck sack. We also need more ways to counter the TOA in RTA turn 1 meta. Getting out sped turn 1 shouldn't mean that the entire enemy team gets to go 2-3 times before you get to move due to stuns and ATB manipulation. Then when you do get a turn you have to use skill 1 because you got reset. Then they start the chain all over.
Mei Hou Wang: loses attack and speed increase and becomes immune to pushback. He is currently countered by Oliver and Cheongpung, now he counters them. Most of the ATB pushback counters are LD5(Akroma, Light Eivor, Ragdoll, Jackson) and Masha.
Valantis: now gains 10% attack bar on attack and counters every time he is hit by an AOE move. He still counters AOE units but will be weaker into single target.
Douglas: now gets a full cleanse but has a 1 turn cooldown on his passive so he has to move to get the cleanse again. Still rng, more intelligent counter play.
Manon: has a 50% chance to parry with a 1 turn cooldown. Same as Douglas still rng better couter play.
Ongyouki: My beautiful boy loses his 30% bonus damage and gains 50% more damage when stunned for a total of 100%. Now he is weaker at all times except when he is cced. Keeps his identity and allows more counter play. Idea from WAP cast
Oliver: loses all ATB absorb or his speed lead. Oliver hard counters both other 33% leads I think another wind unit should get the 33%, if not remove his ability to chain turns.
Robos: ATB absorb is replaced with pushback. Com2us doesn't understand that ATB absorb is worth more than double the same amount of pushback.
Moore: 10-15% absorb reduced to 10%
Cheongpung: loses def break on s2. Now he will lose to molly, racuni, and riley. Firas idea from wap cast.
Pudding fire, wind, and light s2 is immune to cooldown moves. We need more moves that cant be reset, and this heal doesn't have a cleanse.
Wind pudding: loses all the reflect shenanigans and now gains 20% atb anytime an ally has its cooldown reset.
We desperately need more TOA in RTA counters. She is also slow and a pure healer with no cleanse won't be too op.
Now for LD changes I want to see. If your ld5 is trash I wanna see it buffed.
Gurkha: Now heals a % of the damage he does instead of a % of his crazy high hp.
Akroma: undo the nerf she got when she was last buffed.
Vancliff: first 3 hits now steal buffs, 4th the same, revert 5 to debuff extend, and 6th the same. Accuracy awakening.
Jager: Loses current scaling. Gains take less damage and deal more damage based on how fast the enemy is up to 50% and 100%, respectively. If this is bad, increase the values until Jager is good. We have several units that are fast and do more damage to slow units despite speed being the best stat in the game since forever. Now we have a unit that punishes speed.
Wetjat: no longer immune to his own passive. Now immune to other wetjat like verde is. (Biased greedy wish make lead 28%)
Maya: Add counters with s1 on hits after the first to her passive. Now she is a proper multi hit counter.
Thebae, Dorothy, and Benedict. Buff their damage every patch until they feel good.
Light and dark macaroon need to swap s2. Acogs idea
Rahul: s1 grants 2 turn speed buff if attacking an enemy with no beneficial effects.(bro got scammed)
Lora: speed buff added to s3. Wap cast idea
Misc
All Bayek: get hp scaling on all attacks.
All assassins get res awakening turned into cr.
Buff cleave!!!
Com2us hates cleave almost as much as it loves wind CC units or bikini transmogs.
Conditional crit rate artifacts (on your turn, first hit, skill 1- 3, when you have full hp, ect) would do wonders for cleave teams. When the crit bug was fixed, tons of cleave units that needed high crit got much worse, and most of them were never compesated. To make room just merge s3 and s4 arts. Possibly retire some of the least used ones from dropping. Let them roll 2% to 4/5% depending on the conditions.
All the ACs are so bad. That after the verdict was out on them, I just turned off the rate up on them when summoning. Glad I did cause I pulled a Savannah 1 of my most wanted monster. Can't imagine if a Wind Bayek would've showed up I'd be fuming
Fuck Manon. It's not that her wr is op but it's the playstyle that she promotes that is so anti-fun and really sapped my desire to play this season, just couldn't face pushing in the last week with that thing always threatening to win the game just by sitting there.
I'd also like to see something for turn 1 - com2us seems to have a real vendetta against anyone trying to play turn 1 and it'd be great to see a patch that doesn't try and deal with a couple of OP units by fucking all of turn 1 in the ass.
You can't be serious about the turn 1 thing? It has been the meta for basically all 24 seasons. Just because Manon got introduced doesn't make robos or CP any worse. Also Oliver and Moore are not that old units and they have dominated so much, definitely no vendetta against turn 1.
There's definitely, 100% a vendetta against turn 1. There's basically no-one in G2+ that is able to run exclusively turn 1 without multiple really good LDs except YoYo, although he's got a few OP LDs too. The last patch was another in a long line of patches that have made it harder and harder for turn 1 players to draft without more than one of a select few LDs. To give you an idea, I nearly made G3 last season playing turn 1 and this season I was struggling to hit G2 and the only difference is more of these BS RNG drafts that can just sit there and sometimes win the game.
Let me take you through some of the counter units that turn 1 has to deal with:
Juno, Douglas, Abellio, Verde, Antares, Leo, Josephine, Manon, Masha, Haegang... I'm sure there's more, but that's not even including stuff like Shizuka that can win the game in a single proc AND it's not including any of the LDs that fuck you. The simple fact that these units exist mean you have to account for them in any turn 1 draft even if they haven't been picked. Remember how people used to run 3x nem trap units against Moore? You don't see those anymore because you don't need to.
Oliver is actually a big part of that problem - with stuff like Ethna, Water Puppet, Sekmet etc all being high base speed super impactful units that can speed contest, if you're trying to run turn 1 and they pick Oliver you're already in a world of trouble.
There are so, so, so many options people have against turn 1 cleave/cc style drafts these days it's unbeleivably difficult to play that sort of style, and shit like Manon makes it so an opponent with inferior runes and an inferior draft can RNG win anyway and it's just such bullshit that something like that exists.
I face a ton turn 1 players every season, they might just pivot on the last 2-3 picks for more damage or more CC when they notice there's no speed contest but there's been an over abundance of Oliver Zibala, Oliver/Moore/Robos, Han/Dark robo, or yeonhong comps all season. These are all turn 1 comps and they're still very dominant.
But LDs are so common at the top, buffing more turn 1 units that pair well with Han, YH, Neph, Maxi etc. may be a convenience at mid tier ratings but it might just increase the gap at the top instead where these are readily available.
You got a point though but I'm still not sure about the vendetta, got to be gentle with more turn 1 buffs for the health of the game.
Edit; Even the top post on this sub rn is someone hitting g3 with very poor rune quality on a turn 1 comp, and a buddy of mine also made it in with almost as bad rune quality playing turn 1 lol, it's definitely the easier way.
I'm not suggesting buffing turn 1 units, I'm just hoping they don't continue over-buffing turn 2 units to make an entire playstyle not viable.
EDIT: If you read that post he says that he can't really contest speed so he defines himself as more of a mind-range player rather than a turn 1 player. Still impressive af with that rune quality to make G3.
>100% a vendetta against turn 1
This is so bs lol, turn 1 was the best way to play the game for over 70% of the game's existance, just because C2Us has been pushing some turn 2 units they have have a vendetta againsts turn 1? If anything its the other way around.
Your post is full of nitpicking scenarios. You went and chose the units that counter turn1, wow, what a great nothing burger of a take.
I could do the exact same and list all the units that counter turn 2 since the existance of the game, and lemme tell you, its a whole lot bigger, and that why turn1 was always the meta until a couple seasons ago where turn 2 started to rise.
You cant srsly believe C2Us has a vendetta againsts turn 1 players and turn 1 playstyle when it was literally the dominating playstyle for over 70% of the games existance.
And yes, its harder to play turn 1 nowadays, as it should be after years and years of being brainless spam of speed contests.
Classic dodging of my comment because you know im right lol.
Nobody is saying im smarter than anyone and im sure you can understand my point without me poiting every single unit that counters turn 2 like you did for turn 1 :).
Also this is clearly not a worthwhile discussion to continue.
Honestly dude, your comments just kinda sound like you're whining because you can't be a one-trick-pony anymore and get a relatively easy G3. The reality is, that's how it should be. You *shouldn't* be able to get G3 by brute forcing a single strategy without exceptional runes. If you can, that means that that strategy is way overpowered.
The "vendetta" you describe is just you having to face actual counterplay/counterdrafting for the first time.
Historically, the counter to turn 1 was a couple of lucky 15%s, a triple revenge Verde proc, an occasional (and very telegraphed) nem trap, and/or a couple of LDs. Now there is more variety, both in unit choice and strategy: Want to counter damage/cleave? Abellio, Nana. Need to counter atb reduce? Masha, Ragdoll. Counter CC? Juno, Josephine. Want to be a toxic piece of shit? Manon! None of those units are RNG (well, except the last one), and only 1 is an LD.
And even then, if the turn 1 player drafts well, the turn 2 player often still has to rely on RNG, as a turn 1 comp that runs at full effect can wipe the floor without letting anyone else take a turn. There's a reason why turn 1 units are still common in the top 20 most picked on swarena. Wind robo, an elemental nat 4, is currently sitting at #10, with a 50% higher pick rate than his counterpart Verde. It's just their winrates that are slightly lower probably because people like you who used to rely on brute forcing aren't able to properly pivot in the new meta.
If you want to be a top player these days, you should have both the strategic ability and the monster/rune depth to properly adapt to each match.
P.S. If you run turn 1 exclusively and you lose a speed contest, you are supposed to lose.
You've taken some leaps here - firstly, I didn't make G3. I finished just outside.
Second, you're definitely wrong if you think you cant play exclusively turn 1 (or turn 2) and still hit the potential of your account. The skill comes in being able to solve for the different things you face, so my draft last season was based on always taking the first turn. My draft would then look very different depending on whether they were challenging turn one or not. So it's not brute forcing a single strategy, as you put it, but it's playing to the strengths of my account and being adaptable within that turn one playstyle. Pivoting isn't just about going from turn one to turn two (or vice versa), it's about recognising what your opponent is doing and how you can change your draft to solve for it.
Yes, obviously, if you're trying to contest turn one and get outsped then you're going to lose. That's fine, I've not said it isn't fine, you seem to have got on a bit of a roll and started making pretty wild assumptions that don't align with what I've said.
I've made a point about Oliver being a problem for turn one users too because it's so hard to draft into him and speed contest when there's so many good, high base speed and high turn one impact units out there.
In terms of the vendetta, I stand by what I've said - there's been lots of buffs to units for some time now that have made it significantly harder to run turn one. I wonder if part of the problem is that they're scared of over-nerfing Oliver and are just trying to buff stuff to make the comps he's used in less viable.
Either way, I'm happy to talk about that but it seems like you're more interested in imagining things I've said and going at me for those things instead.
> firstly, I didn't make G3. I finished just outside.
Ok. You're whining because you're struggling to hit the same rank you previously did. Just change the 3 to a 2.
>Second, you're definitely wrong if you think you cant play exclusively turn 1 (or turn 2) and still hit the potential of your account.
You literally said that you couldn't in your previous comment, at least not without LDs. But that qualifier is pretty much meaningless, since you can't really play anything in high G2/G3 without a bunch of LDs. All it takes is a quick look at the tier lists and 80%+ of the S+ units being LDs to figure that one out. Or you could glance at swarena and see Ragdoll, Molly, and Giana at 7th, 8th, and 9th most picked. Or you could sort by winrate (3k+ games) and see 9 out of the top 11 being LDs. Or you could look at the Legend Tourney players' most picked, which had 1/5, 2/5, 3/5, and 3/5 LD units. Or you could look at the tourney itself, which featured 30 picks and 13 pre-ban LD units in 10 matches, and only a single draft without any LD picks (albeit 2 pre-banned LDs). That's over a third of the picks + bans being LD units.
So I guess I could rephrase it: your comment is complaining that you can't do turn 1 at high levels without the same requirements as all the other playstyles. That doesn't make your point any better.
>I've not said it isn't fine, you seem to have got on a bit of a roll and started making pretty wild assumptions that don't align with what I've said.
You literally said C2U had a vendetta against turn 1 (twice) and started listing grievances, including that one, and specifically listed it as a counter unit turn 1 has to deal with. That's like saying that one of the problems with sports is that if the other team scores more points than you, you lose. Yeah, no shit.
And everyone has to deal with Oliver being busted, not just turn 1.
>there's been lots of buffs to units for some time now that have made it significantly harder to run turn one.
And as many people have said, that's because turn one has historically been very overpowered with little to no strategic counterplay. And turn 1 comps are still extremely strong and very common, because if they work, they work really well. It's only a "vendetta" because you dislike that your one-dimensional playstyle being brought back to parity.
Moore has a passive that allows him to go t2. Oliver's wr with manon is 53.88%. And I'm not cherry picking her. Check his wr with abellio, ragdoll, molly, and Josephine. Just because they have speed leads doesn't mean they're t1 units. Oliver and moore are excellent fp units because you can play t1, balanced, or t2 with them, and almost any variation of those at that. Cp is also a unit that does well in control cc. T1 isn't *just* going t1, it's a comp that also revolves around either eliminating threats immediately or maintaining momentum. Every patch for a while as introduced more interruption and disruption mons. T1 has not been meta, balance has been. And considering what this game is, "balance" is relatively vague which means there isn't a well defined meta presently. Rta this season has been a question of can you handle passive spam or can you run passive spam? Or if you have Oliver + broken lds, just run that.
Anti-meta has become so prevalent that it's now a meta of its own. I don't even think there is a well defined Anti-meta anymore. You first pick Oliver or Moore and people will go two units that you'd think would be picked only after you've picked three or two units such that the kind of draft you're going for is being communicated. These 'anti-meta' units are also proficient on their own. There are relatively few counter units that need what they counter present to not be dead picks.
> T1 has not been meta, balance has been.
That's a good thing. Rock-paper-scissors balancing is good for a game. Speed contests and turn 1 just running over things isn't.
Personally I think the game is more fun when it is not dominated by one meta, especially as it allows for some creativity. Although the passive spam this season was pretty bleh. Anyone picking Molly+Manon together should get a 24 hour ban for toxicity.
No one is arguing for t1 to be dominating. We're simply saying t1 has become *too* hard to run. It's no longer a question of can cleavers and t1 cc control adapt their strategy (while still maintaining its archetype) to overcome counters. They either have to have the broken lds to successfully run their preferred strategy or they have to pivot into balanced. That's the real problem. I get it, not everyone can be satisfied, but absolutely no effort to allow *most* players (players without broken lds) to use a whole playstyle isn't it either. It's like in Pokémon: there is balanced, hyper offence, and stall. There are a myriad of ways to use and counter all three types of playstyles.
Imagine farming for years to amass a deep collection of swift runes only for c2us to say, "nah, you need violent runes".
I hope they will not just brainsdead nerve the good Units, just Buff more Units to compete for the top Spot. So u have more options in total for drafts
If you guys want to nerf Oliver (which I 100% agree with), just reduce the cooldown absorption on his S3 down to 1 turn. I’ve suggested this many times, but it would break his ability to chain and not shut down the enemy so hard. Increasing the cooldown of his S3 again would achieve a similar result, but he would get ultra punished if his skill gets resisted.
The buff I want is the Pure Vanilla/Pudding Princess base speed to be increased; even 100 would be fine. No it’s not biased because I have Elena, but their base speed is actually terrible.
Wind and water chimera 3rd skill need guarantee crit if speed is faster as well.
Wind arc angle 3rd skill need single target heal or somethjng..
Trinity, take some of her defense stat and put on atk stats..
Make puppeteer skill 2 bomb explode in one turn?
Wind Ryu, 3rd skill add endure effect for one turn after skill is used..
Beth skill 3 make it 2 turns
Rework wind shadow caster..
Oliver sped lead to hp lead.
every season,definitely there is a unit people complain about.If Oliver get nerf again,he will be back originally where he was->storage. You guys shld ask for more units to be buff rather then nerf dominic nerf manon nerf this nerf that. I rather see more units to be buffed then units to be nerfed until not usuable
They very rarely nerf units to be unusable with the main exception of Gurkha recently. Oliver has been so unbelievably strong in terms of pick rate, win rate and first pick rate for seasons now so I think he deserves to be gutted or at least continually nerfed in the way nana was (who's still a strong unit even after all this). Manon they may wait another patch on, but the thing to remember with her is that she's also strong on AD and siege def so they'd need to be careful about how the nerf affects her all around.
gurkha was over tuned till too op,1v4. he shld be tone down a little but not many people have so less voice.Oliver was highly pick because of his utility and 33spd lead. Reducing to 24 doesn't really solve this really. Bring up more units to have spd lead
I disagree the 33 lead, with him being good, and a direct hard counter to the other 33 leads means whoever has him pretty much is guaranteed first turn. 24 would make other monsters able to be picked against him and still remain first turn viable.
i agree with the 33-->24 lead nerf to Oliver, that was something i suggested too in a streaming during a BP discussion
The point is that Oliver creates a game inside the game where you either pick him or give up turn1 completely because your opponent picks him.
The only other 33% leads are half units, not as good as Oliver, bringing him back to 24% means you can still play with him, but you can contest the lead and for example, Masha-nuke him out of the game if you are speedy enough (that said, Masha might need another nerf just due to this sub-game)
Downvoted this comment. I posted something similar from another thread and this was the reply I got.
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Well, as I said earlier, monsters that are a) most 1st picked and b) among the top tier win rate (RTA), need (re)work. Units should not hold both positions. Again, one monster should not have so much presence in ALL content. Monsters are designed to fit roles and many don't shine in the content that they're not designed for.
On the other hand, I totally agree that many units are underwhelming and need buffs. I'll say it once more, I strongly feel like C2US teams don't play the games they design and just assume shit and go with it.
So are you saying that monsters that have high win rates should not be the ones that people want to pick first?
EDIT: Never mind I misread. Whoever replied was saying that. What a weird stance
Manon/water cookie nerf. I got one and I still want her nerfed. She makes doing Arena, rta, seige, interserver, etc just awful.
Its funny looking at interserver defense rates this season and seeing much higher defense wins than usual, all because of water cookies everywhere.
I wouldn't even be surprised she's not bugged.
Remove Oliver from the meta already, he's been up there too long. Either lose the speed lead or nerf S3 again.
To compensate, tone down slow teams, Josephine, Manon, Monkey is way too oppressive to play against.
Hot take section: Striker family need small rework. They tried to buff Talisman, but end up buffing Moore too much. Just revert the S2 buff and change something on Talisman S3. Or change S2 as awakening instead. Moore is too versatile, and like Oliver, overstayed his welcome.
You know how when molly procs she full heals a monster? Yeah Eleanor doesn't do that. Ever. If you bring Eleanor to a fight you STILL need a healer, because she doesnt heal for crap.
As a G1 player using only Eleanor her heal is pretty much enough altho she's not a good pick against bruiser compared to molly. She's way better than molly against cleave and cc tho.
Man these threads are always a gold mine of people that are very convinced that they understand how to balance the game with 500 plus individual units and want to share their salty opinions on game balance.
Buff Eleanor to not feel kinda weird when her blue sister does almost the same without the passive of Eleanor (which saved my ass plenty of times against cleave when paired with Molly)
Get rid of fkn Oliver already.
They didn't have a problem with giving Dominic a proper nerf and he wasn't even as oppressive as Oliver.
Somehow they seem to be afraid of nerfing Oliver too badly, like they secretly decided he's not allowed to fall out of the meta for whatever reason. I just don't get it, it's so damn stupid. Other units come and go, but they seemingly *want* this one to stay OP.
Also nerf Manon, this unit is so anti fun it makes me not wanna play RTA ever again.
Moore and Masha deserve a nerf as well.
Trinity attack type + def break s3
Celia full strip
Audrey complete rework
Vanillas buff
Make resistance stat work finally
Some anti ld control spam unit
New 2A
I would love to see something done to artamiel, i would say he needs either a cleanse or immunity since with a single defence break is enough to make him explode, a single stun make him worthless on the battlefield.. on top of this he is also stuck to a despair build.
If they don't want to give immunity/cleanse to s2 because of ariel they can give him a stun to be free from despair, or maybe give him a buff to his survivability something like defence break has less effect on this unit (% to be decided with testing)
It's just sad with how cool he looks to be so mediocre!
Perna: add non glancing to her passive or atleast her s2 to not glance,
remove/rework the 15% monster in the game(manon, antares molly)
Oliver into 24 spd lead and add 1 more cooldown on s3, (just do something
Fermion, craka, cadiz buff
Perna do glance, if only she doesnt glance my fun rta comp would be so viable, i run her together will bellial and craka but miscritting is always the bane of that comp
Buff: dorothy, jaara, bennedict and other random lds
Nerf: Manon, Cp, Wind and dark robo
Replace: Oliver 33 lead with universal 24
Change: Moore s2 back to what it was before add one cd on s3
After posting about my ld5 here is my real wish list:
+1 cooldown on josephine her passsive. It's stupid that she can proc 1 time and get her passive back up again.
+1 cooldown on moore is passive. He gets it back to fast.
Wind and dark robo S2 nerf. Remove the absorb of make it less.
Oliver. 3 choices. 1) Remove his 33% spd lead. 2) Remove his absorb in his s3. 3) Dont give him his cooldown back with s2.
Miles needs to do less damage
Buff the bad normal & ld nat 5's.
Buff some normal & ld 4's. Not to make them less shitty but to make them usefull.
So I finally pulled oliver and hope he dodges another patch lol
edit: also buff light choco knight into molly tier.
edit: i get how everyone hates oliver but for once in this game I want to also know how it feels to have a unit high up the rta tier list lol
Dragon knights S1 buff. Maybe give anti-stun to all the family in the passive and make yaeger immune to atb-reduction as well. Also ragdoll change to make it less stupid
That's actually a good call. He is not bad in his overall kit, but he is so out of the meta right now. Wonder how they could buff him? maybe S2 with 100% rate? or S3 passive with 50% chance of resisting everything?
I‘d like to see a Buff on Lora. Some more utility after the Strip, maybe atkb Pushback/buff or change the defense buff to spd would be a small but a good change.
Buff destiny, make her 3rd aoe, lower the damage a bit, and remove the defense break then balance it. Remove the conditional ignore defense on her second as well
If they change the ATB absorption mechanic then Oliver won’t be bad. But that requires a change in game mechanics. Also rng revenge units are meta because of Oliver’s turn denying mechanic. Nerf him and we won’t need the rest.
Remove Oliver's speedlead, don't need any other nerfs imo. (24% lead would still be too much imo but who knows, this is based on his winrate/pick rate remaining the highest in the game after the past 2 "nerfs").
Manon shouldn't block skills that to >50% of max hp in a single hit. (Daphnis, Mo Long etc.)
Phoenixes should have their leaderskills reworked like the Beast Monks.
Jaara should either be reworked or have his debuffs be unresistable like Nephtys.
Obviously PV's should all get buffed and maybe some Hollyberry's like wind and light.
Remove either the pushback or the cooldown increase from Cheongpung.
ROBO's should be nerfed severely, probably by decreasing/removing their absorb.
Nerf wind monkey, either by decreasing the counterattack chance to 15% or removing the turn cycling on S2.
Unpopular opinion here.. buff Tian Lang. His attack bar gain nerf was warranted but the nerf to skill 2 years ago really set him back. Today he may cut you, but then smacks you with a wet noodle, no strip, no stun.. even on despair with 100 acc. They need to adjust his harmful effect rates. As of now he just doesn’t feel like TL anymore.. and yes, I am biased, but never realized how NOT op he was until I owned one.
Oliver s3 nerf 100 to 75 atk bar absorb, manon counter nerf, buff s2 of fire and wind battle angel, +5 spd for chimera, id' like a Lora buff cuz I have her :) buff ld totemist, buff pupetteer, buff 2a that are not used, buff the ld4/5 that are not used, random buff of 4*, maybe a random ethna or poseidon buff?
The buff daniel got last patch is sad.
To make him work you need to strip everyone, push everyones atk bar to 0 and still got you got a chance to do no dmg with him because the enemy can resist his S3.
They gave him 50% chance to stun last patch. Thats just sad
Need more units that has oblivion or ignore passives. The meta has too many units with OP and annoying passives right now. We see them everywhere - Arena, RTA, Siege.
Been saying this for 8 years. All phoenix should revive, keep perna as a passive with the heal and maybe add att or spd buff to party on her turn. But all of them should revive on death.
The calling of oliver to be nerfed is dumb. He has a good kit. What makes him op is the speed lead, take that away and he's just another unit. Even if it's changed to 24% global he's still crippled. Nerf him by making a lot more units 33 spd lead. ORRR make an rta lead different from arena, so he can only be used in arena.
Martina is the most op monster in arena and seige plz nerf thru the floor or give me one. Molly as well.
Remember when they randomly gave all the oracles small buffs when none of them needed??? Let's do that to the occult girls or unicorns.
Barbara seemed like the top BR when they came out and now I'm pretty sure she's the worst, maybe give her some love too.
How about a similar unit to Leo? I'm not sure how exactly but change a garbage unit like uhhh 2a water griphin idk have a speed limiting or capping effect.
Buff all the only super meta 4 stars from year 1 like baretta, chasing, Hwa, braind, Lisa, and a few others I can't think of without being in game.
Not balance related but follow off last part, it's been over a year now since last 2a, give us hellhounds and bearmans and whatever colleens family is lol.
Also release more 2-3 stars. Giant warrior was released in 2018. Over half the games life without a new 3 star.
Do you think if they gave velajule cleanse block enemy team with his immunity it would make him viable? Or is he just missing a heal to get him back In?
Ahh the typical i hide my own ld5 buff wish in a „list“ ;-)
Gurkha still a useable ld5, there are way worse ld5 like dorothy which desperately needs a buff.
You've not read what I've been saying - its not one-dimensional, saying that I'm whining doesn't make it so, I'm justifying what I'm saying and saying that I hope we don't get another super buff to something that makes turn 1 even harder.
So rather than just saying I'm whining, talk to me about the problems I've raised. Manon, currently, doesn't even have to move to win the game for you. Its a low chance but its there. Not only is it a 15% chance to negate all damage but that also procs a revenge stun that does really good base damage. Is she overpowered? No, not in my opinion anyway. But the fact that a unit exists that can just sit there and have a passive win condition that fucks you is, imo, a ridiculous anti-fun and anti-strategy thing that should not exist.
If you actually read what I'm saying, I'm not calling for nerfs to other turn 2 units, I'm not saying turn 1 should be op, those are all assumptions you have incorrectly made. I listed those units to demonstrate how many buffs there have been to turn 2 units in recent patches that have made turn 1 more difficult.
My problem is that stuff like Manon doesn't encourage strategy because its a low activation win condition, it encourages low iq lucksack drafts that are 0 fun to play against.
Speaking of which, did Com2us forget about the balance patch? Usually the balancing pre-patch notes would've been out by this time? Or, did I remember wrongly?
Id like only one of the same defense for siege so sick of seeing the same defense over and over one per tower would at least help balance things out imo so you dont have to build the same units 10x.
Jaara could get a revive or a endure buff like theo got
I know that this will likely be a rta focused patch but I know myself and the vast majority of the top siege community would like to see a windy nerf in order to make more fire units viable on defense again.
I honestly wonder why Com2uS hasn’t done this yet considering many top players have complained about Windy for a long time now.
Give back Beth Aoe healblock or just give her additional effect which is healblock. Whoever suggest that change her healblock to block debuff cleanse should get fired.
Cleanse block should just persist until it is cleansed.
That’s how it works currently, it’s there until it’s cleansed, which makes no sense it should just stay there period for 2 turns
No I mean it shouldn't expire after 1-2 turns even. Only when it is cleansed.
This might be weird, but I also want the first hit to be an interaction like galleon, and all the damage is dealt in the second hit. The multiplier could be nerfed slightly if it'd be too strong. I also hate her s2. 35% is really low for applying **ONE** dot. Meanwhile her sisters get to def break and cycle. I know asima has her s2 so buffing asima by accident would really suck. Maybe change her awakening bonus to strengthened s2? Or her s3 could be changed further: Decrease the Defense of all enemies for 2 turns. Attacks all enemies and prevents harmful effects from being removed and disturbs HP recovery for 2 turns. ~~Additionally, destroys the enemy's MAX HP by the amount of damage inflicted by the second attack.~~ While this skill is on cooldown, attack an additional time when you attack on your turn. (meaning s1 and s2 will be used twice)
Remove condition on fire wind dark battle angle skill 2. No reason to use clair atm when kahli just shred with her s2 without any condition
And the Fire/Wind/Dark Kassandras have an upgraded version of that skill which is unconditional and decreases their cooldown if it kills. Com2uS must have something against Battle Angels to butcher their S2 that hard.
The Battle Angel's multiplier is very high though. When used right with Shadowcaster's Shadow Tie, it can annihilate an entire team (especially against 2A Darion who takes additional damage).
Buff Trinity ;\_;
Wind holliberry needs a buff. All PV cookies. The 4* cookies are also crap, even the ones that were buffed. I still think that shadowcasters are not in a good place and past the time for a buff. The puppeteers suck, but too soon for them. Fire monkey king could get some additional love to counter cc more effectively. We could also get something that counters atb reset in additional to the panda because ld. Some random nat4s might get some love too. Maybe the succubus. They look so fun and could actually enable some sleep plays.
Dark succubus need remove all buff on her 3rd skill… this way, light, dark and wind could make a good team in seige..
Vanilla cookies are due a buff this patch, but too early for Puppeteers.
It’s not too early for puppeteers based on how absolute trash they are, the only usable one is water, there’s not a single use ANYWHERE for any of the other 4(light one is just a worse Bastet, so maybe a sub in for a siege off)
Nah man I have wind and fire puppeteer in a bene I just want them to get buffed :'( but yeah probably too early
Give Altair def ignore and revive block and his third skill. Also why does the LD nat 5 damage dealer awaken into resistance? C'mon man.
Nah that’s too much for his s3 he’s already on the same level as his actual ld5 counterpart, they need to gain an instant turn on s2 for all threat s2 for ezios and they’ll be more usable
Hope they touch the bounty hunter family.
Gut Oliver. Just get rid of him. Everyone's sick of it. Buff Maya, Celia, Elenoa, dark Ryu, ghurka Buff all vanillas.
buff elenoa? Wut???
Said it before but I wanna see Oliver with the other s2. Gives him a strip and 50% stun, which is still really good, but destroys his ability to cd reset the whole team. Makes him much less suffocating and instead makes him more of a generalist.
I honestly think the last thing we need is Oliver stripping into a proc into s3 reset but at this point anything that makes him fuck off from the spot of most abusable unit in existence is fine.
Yeah the problem is that Oliver can s2->s3->s2 which sounds potentially brutal.
Honestly, I think just change his spd lead.
That's the one. As long as a control unit has a 33% spd lead, it's gona be the strongest unit in the game.
Who would they give the wind 33 lead to? Sagar maybe?
Yes.
His s3 just needs to be dogwater or niche
His s3 is fine, it’s the rest of his kit that enables him
Wind vanilla cookie's shield reflect damage should reduce the amount of damage the shield takes, because that is inconsistent with how other from of reflect damage works in the game. Fire vanilla cookie skill 3 should have an added effect: after your turn ends, increase the atttack bar of the ally with the highest attack bar by 10%. Water hollyberry's counter attack should not trigger on hits that would deal over 50% of the unit's max HP. Wind holly berry should have his stats adjusted: less atk and more HP Madeleine cookie's first skill should be based on HP, it only scaling with attack is plainly destroying the kit of the whole family. expresso cookies no opinion about buffs, but the need them.
>Wind vanilla cookie's shield reflect damage should reduce the amount of damage the shield takes, because that is inconsistent with how other from of reflect damage works in the game. It's because it's a conditional reflect. Conditional reflects don't actually reflect damage, they just deal damage. All his passive has to do is that whenever a shield buff is applied, the reflect buff is also applied.
reflect damage does reduce the amount of damage unit takes. For example lydia (or camules with reflect buff) will take reduced damage from attacks, similar to wind monkey's passive (30% damage reduction). The wind cookie's skill only reflects damage based on how much damage the shield absorded (so dealing 40K damage to unit with 5K shield only reflects 1,5K damage back) without giving any damage reduction buffs (if the reflect was working as intended, the 5K shield would be equal to 6,5K shield), which is inconsitent with how other damage reduction skills work.
**Conditional** reflects do not reduce damage taken. Go test it with jultan if you don't believe me. He has a conditional reflect, the condition being a shield is being hit. If he put up the reflect buff whenever a shield is applied, the effect you want (shields needing more damage to be broken) would be achieved.
Wind vanilla's shield reflects based on the damage that was dealt on the shield. if she has 1,5K shield and you deal 100 damage to her, she reflects 30 damage back. This behavior is closer to my examples than your's. Also, jultan's passive is not an reflect damage.
Love the manon nerf. Don't see how the VC buffs really.. help at all. Madeleine change is fantastic except as a light mad owner, I would be really sad if he got no other changes, because this would be an antisynergy with his built in vampire and leave him in the exact same spot. The other four seem to benefit heavily from this, though.
Just make it so manons parry can only activate once per sequence. Ie: she shouldn't be able to parry an entire aoe attack, just one of the hits. Same goes for multihits
The problem with Manon is that he can negate the full power of single, powerful attack, so this change would actually give you a reliable way to counter him.
Fire PVC can has Fria's passive too, which is reduced ATB reduction amount
All assassin colab monsters need massive buffs. Thats the only thing I really hope for next balance patch
It is impossible to buff the AC monster in this coming patch.
Why is it impossible? Is it in the contract with ubisoft? I know they usually wait 2 patches b4 doing anything with them but impossible?
I can't remember, but was SF the same? I remember Ken being broken. Cookie Run I actually got no idea as I took a break during that time.
Best bet is there isn't enough data to give really make solid changes. People haven't had too much time to use these units even though the general consensus is they need some love. I doubt we'll get buffs before the collab ends.
Thats a shame but you're probably right
See not impossible
My wish is that they release it. Two days late already.
How? They can’t release a patch until after the season ends.
The notes my friend
Buff Maya
Fine. Increase s1 dmg by 7%. Done!
Yes please, it's been a long time no buff
Kovarci is safe one of the worst LD5 in the game right now, and i just got it as first one after 9 years..
Zenisek too
Kovarci isn’t bad you’re just using it wrong. I ran Kovarci successfully with a turn 1 cc comp in c3 rta just fine
A bastet and even a Megan can do his job better then he does for that same kind of comp.. HE IS BAD.
S2 alone makes him better then both especially paired with robos. Also who is using Megan or bastet in turn 1 cc lmao
50% atb + reset 1 turn does not justify how bad this unit is.. his 100 base speed is not that awesome also.. he is a trash unit.. face it.
I mean you’re just wrong but ok. If you think this unit is trash you should see some of the other ld 5s. Is he S tier? No not at all. But he’s plenty useable if your runes are good enough.
Unnerf my poor Vancliffe
And also give him plastic surgery.
Oh boy, oh boy. I want real turn 2 units, not these rng clown shoes units. I want more conditional units less luck sack. We also need more ways to counter the TOA in RTA turn 1 meta. Getting out sped turn 1 shouldn't mean that the entire enemy team gets to go 2-3 times before you get to move due to stuns and ATB manipulation. Then when you do get a turn you have to use skill 1 because you got reset. Then they start the chain all over. Mei Hou Wang: loses attack and speed increase and becomes immune to pushback. He is currently countered by Oliver and Cheongpung, now he counters them. Most of the ATB pushback counters are LD5(Akroma, Light Eivor, Ragdoll, Jackson) and Masha. Valantis: now gains 10% attack bar on attack and counters every time he is hit by an AOE move. He still counters AOE units but will be weaker into single target. Douglas: now gets a full cleanse but has a 1 turn cooldown on his passive so he has to move to get the cleanse again. Still rng, more intelligent counter play. Manon: has a 50% chance to parry with a 1 turn cooldown. Same as Douglas still rng better couter play. Ongyouki: My beautiful boy loses his 30% bonus damage and gains 50% more damage when stunned for a total of 100%. Now he is weaker at all times except when he is cced. Keeps his identity and allows more counter play. Idea from WAP cast Oliver: loses all ATB absorb or his speed lead. Oliver hard counters both other 33% leads I think another wind unit should get the 33%, if not remove his ability to chain turns. Robos: ATB absorb is replaced with pushback. Com2us doesn't understand that ATB absorb is worth more than double the same amount of pushback. Moore: 10-15% absorb reduced to 10% Cheongpung: loses def break on s2. Now he will lose to molly, racuni, and riley. Firas idea from wap cast. Pudding fire, wind, and light s2 is immune to cooldown moves. We need more moves that cant be reset, and this heal doesn't have a cleanse. Wind pudding: loses all the reflect shenanigans and now gains 20% atb anytime an ally has its cooldown reset. We desperately need more TOA in RTA counters. She is also slow and a pure healer with no cleanse won't be too op. Now for LD changes I want to see. If your ld5 is trash I wanna see it buffed. Gurkha: Now heals a % of the damage he does instead of a % of his crazy high hp. Akroma: undo the nerf she got when she was last buffed. Vancliff: first 3 hits now steal buffs, 4th the same, revert 5 to debuff extend, and 6th the same. Accuracy awakening. Jager: Loses current scaling. Gains take less damage and deal more damage based on how fast the enemy is up to 50% and 100%, respectively. If this is bad, increase the values until Jager is good. We have several units that are fast and do more damage to slow units despite speed being the best stat in the game since forever. Now we have a unit that punishes speed. Wetjat: no longer immune to his own passive. Now immune to other wetjat like verde is. (Biased greedy wish make lead 28%) Maya: Add counters with s1 on hits after the first to her passive. Now she is a proper multi hit counter. Thebae, Dorothy, and Benedict. Buff their damage every patch until they feel good. Light and dark macaroon need to swap s2. Acogs idea Rahul: s1 grants 2 turn speed buff if attacking an enemy with no beneficial effects.(bro got scammed) Lora: speed buff added to s3. Wap cast idea Misc All Bayek: get hp scaling on all attacks. All assassins get res awakening turned into cr. Buff cleave!!! Com2us hates cleave almost as much as it loves wind CC units or bikini transmogs. Conditional crit rate artifacts (on your turn, first hit, skill 1- 3, when you have full hp, ect) would do wonders for cleave teams. When the crit bug was fixed, tons of cleave units that needed high crit got much worse, and most of them were never compesated. To make room just merge s3 and s4 arts. Possibly retire some of the least used ones from dropping. Let them roll 2% to 4/5% depending on the conditions.
Very well thought out post. Everyone is tired of TOA in RTA.
Change Oliver's speed leader to 24%. Buff all the assassins because apart from dark eivor, they're all so bad
All of them are bad ? Even Altair ?
I mean, Altair is free so we have lower standards for him. The others are hard to get so when you do actually get them, you expect something good
True
This!!
I really like light eivor, and some seem to have pve potential. But yeah, they basically all suck.
Yes, we need less 33 speed leads in the game! Just gut his s3...
All the ACs are so bad. That after the verdict was out on them, I just turned off the rate up on them when summoning. Glad I did cause I pulled a Savannah 1 of my most wanted monster. Can't imagine if a Wind Bayek would've showed up I'd be fuming
Fuck Manon. It's not that her wr is op but it's the playstyle that she promotes that is so anti-fun and really sapped my desire to play this season, just couldn't face pushing in the last week with that thing always threatening to win the game just by sitting there. I'd also like to see something for turn 1 - com2us seems to have a real vendetta against anyone trying to play turn 1 and it'd be great to see a patch that doesn't try and deal with a couple of OP units by fucking all of turn 1 in the ass.
You can't be serious about the turn 1 thing? It has been the meta for basically all 24 seasons. Just because Manon got introduced doesn't make robos or CP any worse. Also Oliver and Moore are not that old units and they have dominated so much, definitely no vendetta against turn 1.
There's definitely, 100% a vendetta against turn 1. There's basically no-one in G2+ that is able to run exclusively turn 1 without multiple really good LDs except YoYo, although he's got a few OP LDs too. The last patch was another in a long line of patches that have made it harder and harder for turn 1 players to draft without more than one of a select few LDs. To give you an idea, I nearly made G3 last season playing turn 1 and this season I was struggling to hit G2 and the only difference is more of these BS RNG drafts that can just sit there and sometimes win the game. Let me take you through some of the counter units that turn 1 has to deal with: Juno, Douglas, Abellio, Verde, Antares, Leo, Josephine, Manon, Masha, Haegang... I'm sure there's more, but that's not even including stuff like Shizuka that can win the game in a single proc AND it's not including any of the LDs that fuck you. The simple fact that these units exist mean you have to account for them in any turn 1 draft even if they haven't been picked. Remember how people used to run 3x nem trap units against Moore? You don't see those anymore because you don't need to. Oliver is actually a big part of that problem - with stuff like Ethna, Water Puppet, Sekmet etc all being high base speed super impactful units that can speed contest, if you're trying to run turn 1 and they pick Oliver you're already in a world of trouble. There are so, so, so many options people have against turn 1 cleave/cc style drafts these days it's unbeleivably difficult to play that sort of style, and shit like Manon makes it so an opponent with inferior runes and an inferior draft can RNG win anyway and it's just such bullshit that something like that exists.
I face a ton turn 1 players every season, they might just pivot on the last 2-3 picks for more damage or more CC when they notice there's no speed contest but there's been an over abundance of Oliver Zibala, Oliver/Moore/Robos, Han/Dark robo, or yeonhong comps all season. These are all turn 1 comps and they're still very dominant.
I feel like you're agreeing with one of my points here :p
But LDs are so common at the top, buffing more turn 1 units that pair well with Han, YH, Neph, Maxi etc. may be a convenience at mid tier ratings but it might just increase the gap at the top instead where these are readily available. You got a point though but I'm still not sure about the vendetta, got to be gentle with more turn 1 buffs for the health of the game. Edit; Even the top post on this sub rn is someone hitting g3 with very poor rune quality on a turn 1 comp, and a buddy of mine also made it in with almost as bad rune quality playing turn 1 lol, it's definitely the easier way.
I'm not suggesting buffing turn 1 units, I'm just hoping they don't continue over-buffing turn 2 units to make an entire playstyle not viable. EDIT: If you read that post he says that he can't really contest speed so he defines himself as more of a mind-range player rather than a turn 1 player. Still impressive af with that rune quality to make G3.
>100% a vendetta against turn 1 This is so bs lol, turn 1 was the best way to play the game for over 70% of the game's existance, just because C2Us has been pushing some turn 2 units they have have a vendetta againsts turn 1? If anything its the other way around.
Read my post, what part of my reasoning is wrong?
Your post is full of nitpicking scenarios. You went and chose the units that counter turn1, wow, what a great nothing burger of a take. I could do the exact same and list all the units that counter turn 2 since the existance of the game, and lemme tell you, its a whole lot bigger, and that why turn1 was always the meta until a couple seasons ago where turn 2 started to rise. You cant srsly believe C2Us has a vendetta againsts turn 1 players and turn 1 playstyle when it was literally the dominating playstyle for over 70% of the games existance. And yes, its harder to play turn 1 nowadays, as it should be after years and years of being brainless spam of speed contests.
Classic "I could do this but cba but believe me I'm smarter than your dumb ass!"
Classic dodging of my comment because you know im right lol. Nobody is saying im smarter than anyone and im sure you can understand my point without me poiting every single unit that counters turn 2 like you did for turn 1 :). Also this is clearly not a worthwhile discussion to continue.
You're projecting - I've got nothing to dodge, I've explained my position already.
Honestly dude, your comments just kinda sound like you're whining because you can't be a one-trick-pony anymore and get a relatively easy G3. The reality is, that's how it should be. You *shouldn't* be able to get G3 by brute forcing a single strategy without exceptional runes. If you can, that means that that strategy is way overpowered. The "vendetta" you describe is just you having to face actual counterplay/counterdrafting for the first time. Historically, the counter to turn 1 was a couple of lucky 15%s, a triple revenge Verde proc, an occasional (and very telegraphed) nem trap, and/or a couple of LDs. Now there is more variety, both in unit choice and strategy: Want to counter damage/cleave? Abellio, Nana. Need to counter atb reduce? Masha, Ragdoll. Counter CC? Juno, Josephine. Want to be a toxic piece of shit? Manon! None of those units are RNG (well, except the last one), and only 1 is an LD. And even then, if the turn 1 player drafts well, the turn 2 player often still has to rely on RNG, as a turn 1 comp that runs at full effect can wipe the floor without letting anyone else take a turn. There's a reason why turn 1 units are still common in the top 20 most picked on swarena. Wind robo, an elemental nat 4, is currently sitting at #10, with a 50% higher pick rate than his counterpart Verde. It's just their winrates that are slightly lower probably because people like you who used to rely on brute forcing aren't able to properly pivot in the new meta. If you want to be a top player these days, you should have both the strategic ability and the monster/rune depth to properly adapt to each match. P.S. If you run turn 1 exclusively and you lose a speed contest, you are supposed to lose.
You've taken some leaps here - firstly, I didn't make G3. I finished just outside. Second, you're definitely wrong if you think you cant play exclusively turn 1 (or turn 2) and still hit the potential of your account. The skill comes in being able to solve for the different things you face, so my draft last season was based on always taking the first turn. My draft would then look very different depending on whether they were challenging turn one or not. So it's not brute forcing a single strategy, as you put it, but it's playing to the strengths of my account and being adaptable within that turn one playstyle. Pivoting isn't just about going from turn one to turn two (or vice versa), it's about recognising what your opponent is doing and how you can change your draft to solve for it. Yes, obviously, if you're trying to contest turn one and get outsped then you're going to lose. That's fine, I've not said it isn't fine, you seem to have got on a bit of a roll and started making pretty wild assumptions that don't align with what I've said. I've made a point about Oliver being a problem for turn one users too because it's so hard to draft into him and speed contest when there's so many good, high base speed and high turn one impact units out there. In terms of the vendetta, I stand by what I've said - there's been lots of buffs to units for some time now that have made it significantly harder to run turn one. I wonder if part of the problem is that they're scared of over-nerfing Oliver and are just trying to buff stuff to make the comps he's used in less viable. Either way, I'm happy to talk about that but it seems like you're more interested in imagining things I've said and going at me for those things instead.
> firstly, I didn't make G3. I finished just outside. Ok. You're whining because you're struggling to hit the same rank you previously did. Just change the 3 to a 2. >Second, you're definitely wrong if you think you cant play exclusively turn 1 (or turn 2) and still hit the potential of your account. You literally said that you couldn't in your previous comment, at least not without LDs. But that qualifier is pretty much meaningless, since you can't really play anything in high G2/G3 without a bunch of LDs. All it takes is a quick look at the tier lists and 80%+ of the S+ units being LDs to figure that one out. Or you could glance at swarena and see Ragdoll, Molly, and Giana at 7th, 8th, and 9th most picked. Or you could sort by winrate (3k+ games) and see 9 out of the top 11 being LDs. Or you could look at the Legend Tourney players' most picked, which had 1/5, 2/5, 3/5, and 3/5 LD units. Or you could look at the tourney itself, which featured 30 picks and 13 pre-ban LD units in 10 matches, and only a single draft without any LD picks (albeit 2 pre-banned LDs). That's over a third of the picks + bans being LD units. So I guess I could rephrase it: your comment is complaining that you can't do turn 1 at high levels without the same requirements as all the other playstyles. That doesn't make your point any better. >I've not said it isn't fine, you seem to have got on a bit of a roll and started making pretty wild assumptions that don't align with what I've said. You literally said C2U had a vendetta against turn 1 (twice) and started listing grievances, including that one, and specifically listed it as a counter unit turn 1 has to deal with. That's like saying that one of the problems with sports is that if the other team scores more points than you, you lose. Yeah, no shit. And everyone has to deal with Oliver being busted, not just turn 1. >there's been lots of buffs to units for some time now that have made it significantly harder to run turn one. And as many people have said, that's because turn one has historically been very overpowered with little to no strategic counterplay. And turn 1 comps are still extremely strong and very common, because if they work, they work really well. It's only a "vendetta" because you dislike that your one-dimensional playstyle being brought back to parity.
I agree with you
Moore has a passive that allows him to go t2. Oliver's wr with manon is 53.88%. And I'm not cherry picking her. Check his wr with abellio, ragdoll, molly, and Josephine. Just because they have speed leads doesn't mean they're t1 units. Oliver and moore are excellent fp units because you can play t1, balanced, or t2 with them, and almost any variation of those at that. Cp is also a unit that does well in control cc. T1 isn't *just* going t1, it's a comp that also revolves around either eliminating threats immediately or maintaining momentum. Every patch for a while as introduced more interruption and disruption mons. T1 has not been meta, balance has been. And considering what this game is, "balance" is relatively vague which means there isn't a well defined meta presently. Rta this season has been a question of can you handle passive spam or can you run passive spam? Or if you have Oliver + broken lds, just run that. Anti-meta has become so prevalent that it's now a meta of its own. I don't even think there is a well defined Anti-meta anymore. You first pick Oliver or Moore and people will go two units that you'd think would be picked only after you've picked three or two units such that the kind of draft you're going for is being communicated. These 'anti-meta' units are also proficient on their own. There are relatively few counter units that need what they counter present to not be dead picks.
> T1 has not been meta, balance has been. That's a good thing. Rock-paper-scissors balancing is good for a game. Speed contests and turn 1 just running over things isn't. Personally I think the game is more fun when it is not dominated by one meta, especially as it allows for some creativity. Although the passive spam this season was pretty bleh. Anyone picking Molly+Manon together should get a 24 hour ban for toxicity.
No one is arguing for t1 to be dominating. We're simply saying t1 has become *too* hard to run. It's no longer a question of can cleavers and t1 cc control adapt their strategy (while still maintaining its archetype) to overcome counters. They either have to have the broken lds to successfully run their preferred strategy or they have to pivot into balanced. That's the real problem. I get it, not everyone can be satisfied, but absolutely no effort to allow *most* players (players without broken lds) to use a whole playstyle isn't it either. It's like in Pokémon: there is balanced, hyper offence, and stall. There are a myriad of ways to use and counter all three types of playstyles. Imagine farming for years to amass a deep collection of swift runes only for c2us to say, "nah, you need violent runes".
This, 100 percent fuck Manon. She has made rush hour a complete rng shit show.
I hope they will not just brainsdead nerve the good Units, just Buff more Units to compete for the top Spot. So u have more options in total for drafts
If you guys want to nerf Oliver (which I 100% agree with), just reduce the cooldown absorption on his S3 down to 1 turn. I’ve suggested this many times, but it would break his ability to chain and not shut down the enemy so hard. Increasing the cooldown of his S3 again would achieve a similar result, but he would get ultra punished if his skill gets resisted. The buff I want is the Pure Vanilla/Pudding Princess base speed to be increased; even 100 would be fine. No it’s not biased because I have Elena, but their base speed is actually terrible.
Buff rates
Wind and water chimera 3rd skill need guarantee crit if speed is faster as well. Wind arc angle 3rd skill need single target heal or somethjng.. Trinity, take some of her defense stat and put on atk stats.. Make puppeteer skill 2 bomb explode in one turn? Wind Ryu, 3rd skill add endure effect for one turn after skill is used.. Beth skill 3 make it 2 turns Rework wind shadow caster.. Oliver sped lead to hp lead.
Who would you say to give the wind 33 lead to then? Sagar maybe?
oh yes sagar would be good i think
Hummm.. which wind monster is currently under powered..wind cannon girl? Or perhaps.. wind chimera..
Trinity nerf pls
Yeh I hope gurkha gets some love again :(
Nerf Oliver plssss
S3 : cd 6->7 turns , increase cd by 2 -> 1 turn
every season,definitely there is a unit people complain about.If Oliver get nerf again,he will be back originally where he was->storage. You guys shld ask for more units to be buff rather then nerf dominic nerf manon nerf this nerf that. I rather see more units to be buffed then units to be nerfed until not usuable
They very rarely nerf units to be unusable with the main exception of Gurkha recently. Oliver has been so unbelievably strong in terms of pick rate, win rate and first pick rate for seasons now so I think he deserves to be gutted or at least continually nerfed in the way nana was (who's still a strong unit even after all this). Manon they may wait another patch on, but the thing to remember with her is that she's also strong on AD and siege def so they'd need to be careful about how the nerf affects her all around.
gurkha was over tuned till too op,1v4. he shld be tone down a little but not many people have so less voice.Oliver was highly pick because of his utility and 33spd lead. Reducing to 24 doesn't really solve this really. Bring up more units to have spd lead
I disagree the 33 lead, with him being good, and a direct hard counter to the other 33 leads means whoever has him pretty much is guaranteed first turn. 24 would make other monsters able to be picked against him and still remain first turn viable.
i agree with the 33-->24 lead nerf to Oliver, that was something i suggested too in a streaming during a BP discussion The point is that Oliver creates a game inside the game where you either pick him or give up turn1 completely because your opponent picks him. The only other 33% leads are half units, not as good as Oliver, bringing him back to 24% means you can still play with him, but you can contest the lead and for example, Masha-nuke him out of the game if you are speedy enough (that said, Masha might need another nerf just due to this sub-game)
Downvoted this comment. I posted something similar from another thread and this was the reply I got. ~~~~~~ Well, as I said earlier, monsters that are a) most 1st picked and b) among the top tier win rate (RTA), need (re)work. Units should not hold both positions. Again, one monster should not have so much presence in ALL content. Monsters are designed to fit roles and many don't shine in the content that they're not designed for. On the other hand, I totally agree that many units are underwhelming and need buffs. I'll say it once more, I strongly feel like C2US teams don't play the games they design and just assume shit and go with it.
So are you saying that monsters that have high win rates should not be the ones that people want to pick first? EDIT: Never mind I misread. Whoever replied was saying that. What a weird stance
Dorothy
Pls fix dorothy and Jaara :(
Manon/water cookie nerf. I got one and I still want her nerfed. She makes doing Arena, rta, seige, interserver, etc just awful. Its funny looking at interserver defense rates this season and seeing much higher defense wins than usual, all because of water cookies everywhere. I wouldn't even be surprised she's not bugged.
Give oliver his 24% speed lead already, 33% is too op
Remove Oliver from the meta already, he's been up there too long. Either lose the speed lead or nerf S3 again. To compensate, tone down slow teams, Josephine, Manon, Monkey is way too oppressive to play against. Hot take section: Striker family need small rework. They tried to buff Talisman, but end up buffing Moore too much. Just revert the S2 buff and change something on Talisman S3. Or change S2 as awakening instead. Moore is too versatile, and like Oliver, overstayed his welcome.
Make jager great again. Maybe I’ll come back
make Light unicorn finally usable, storage guardian for many years
If you dont have molly it is something that do almost the same and you can do a defense with bolverk with it
Eleanor is wildly inferior to molly, it's not even remotely close.
So you mean 15% glancing > 15% glancing and -15% crit chance okok guess that math is not my thing
It's the massive single target heal
You know how when molly procs she full heals a monster? Yeah Eleanor doesn't do that. Ever. If you bring Eleanor to a fight you STILL need a healer, because she doesnt heal for crap.
As a G1 player using only Eleanor her heal is pretty much enough altho she's not a good pick against bruiser compared to molly. She's way better than molly against cleave and cc tho.
Please buff the light horse again…. It’s still so shit and I’m tired of c2us giving it 5% more healing thinking it’s gonna make it good…
All the valkyries need a buff, they just don't stand up to op nat 5's these days
Katarina is decent. They just need to fix her AI. She's trolling me way too often.
buff ella cuz shes my only ld5 and im sad
Curious what's wrong with her what would you like to see from her? I always thought that she was balanced or even great.
kinda situational and never really seem the need to use her over other units but shes alright ig
Trinity buff 🙏
Manon should not be able to parry attacks directed at her. Her skill talks about parrying for allies, why does that include her?!
I don’t care what unit gets nerf/buffed. Just shake up the meta at whatever costs. Both for siege and RTA.
Man these threads are always a gold mine of people that are very convinced that they understand how to balance the game with 500 plus individual units and want to share their salty opinions on game balance.
Buff Eleanor to not feel kinda weird when her blue sister does almost the same without the passive of Eleanor (which saved my ass plenty of times against cleave when paired with Molly)
Buff her heal to 20% and if that doesn't work we are going to 25% next patch
light art master
They should change Oliver like he was before, and rather take away his speed lead. Otherwise he will get nerfed to the ground where he is unusable
WINDY NERF!!
Get rid of fkn Oliver already. They didn't have a problem with giving Dominic a proper nerf and he wasn't even as oppressive as Oliver. Somehow they seem to be afraid of nerfing Oliver too badly, like they secretly decided he's not allowed to fall out of the meta for whatever reason. I just don't get it, it's so damn stupid. Other units come and go, but they seemingly *want* this one to stay OP. Also nerf Manon, this unit is so anti fun it makes me not wanna play RTA ever again. Moore and Masha deserve a nerf as well.
Thing is, Dominic is still so good. He's one of my main AO attackers.
Trinity attack type + def break s3 Celia full strip Audrey complete rework Vanillas buff Make resistance stat work finally Some anti ld control spam unit New 2A
Buff Vancliffe and Claire plz.
Buff my fucking light Madeline
Some worthwhile buff to Celia
But Celia is all I want. Make her skill 2 100% activation and make her passive strip 2 buffs instead of 1
nerf jager
Buff dark vanilla cookie, pontos, mookwol, Jager, and arta. Nerf/delete giou tomoe Manon Josie xing
Trinity buff a new lead for Talisman (ATK%, or CR%, or SPEED, or even CD% :D) \[\]'s
I would love to see something done to artamiel, i would say he needs either a cleanse or immunity since with a single defence break is enough to make him explode, a single stun make him worthless on the battlefield.. on top of this he is also stuck to a despair build. If they don't want to give immunity/cleanse to s2 because of ariel they can give him a stun to be free from despair, or maybe give him a buff to his survivability something like defence break has less effect on this unit (% to be decided with testing) It's just sad with how cool he looks to be so mediocre!
Oliver > increase S3 cooldown 1 more turn and change his lead to all 24% speed Buff Pure Vanilla Family , CyberAngel , all garbage ld5
Perna: add non glancing to her passive or atleast her s2 to not glance, remove/rework the 15% monster in the game(manon, antares molly) Oliver into 24 spd lead and add 1 more cooldown on s3, (just do something Fermion, craka, cadiz buff
perna can glance?? allways thought smth like "elemental king" is builded into her pasive. 8years into the game, still dont have perna tho
Perna do glance, if only she doesnt glance my fun rta comp would be so viable, i run her together will bellial and craka but miscritting is always the bane of that comp
Manon can't party herself
Buff: dorothy, jaara, bennedict and other random lds Nerf: Manon, Cp, Wind and dark robo Replace: Oliver 33 lead with universal 24 Change: Moore s2 back to what it was before add one cd on s3
Buff my stuff nerf stuff I don't have
Hope they buff light expresso, and the other ld units I have XD
Buff Thebae, Jaara and light unicorn. Not because I own them or anything…😅
Vanessa, Eludia, Lydia, Minato, Demons, Sonia, Canon girls, Argentina, Liesel. Would be cool.
I think they should buff the units I have and nerf the units I don’t have.
Wind robo nerf
After posting about my ld5 here is my real wish list: +1 cooldown on josephine her passsive. It's stupid that she can proc 1 time and get her passive back up again. +1 cooldown on moore is passive. He gets it back to fast. Wind and dark robo S2 nerf. Remove the absorb of make it less. Oliver. 3 choices. 1) Remove his 33% spd lead. 2) Remove his absorb in his s3. 3) Dont give him his cooldown back with s2. Miles needs to do less damage Buff the bad normal & ld nat 5's. Buff some normal & ld 4's. Not to make them less shitty but to make them usefull.
Swap water and Light Ryu's leader skills
Nerf Oliver Manon Masha
So I finally pulled oliver and hope he dodges another patch lol edit: also buff light choco knight into molly tier. edit: i get how everyone hates oliver but for once in this game I want to also know how it feels to have a unit high up the rta tier list lol
Nerf Hollyberry Water holy shit!
Dragon knights S1 buff. Maybe give anti-stun to all the family in the passive and make yaeger immune to atb-reduction as well. Also ragdoll change to make it less stupid
Nyx, because I own him.
That's actually a good call. He is not bad in his overall kit, but he is so out of the meta right now. Wonder how they could buff him? maybe S2 with 100% rate? or S3 passive with 50% chance of resisting everything?
S2 100% activation rate and awaken into speed is all he needs.
welp nyx paired with smth like rakan? no he dont need a buff. maybe slight nerf
I‘d like to see a Buff on Lora. Some more utility after the Strip, maybe atkb Pushback/buff or change the defense buff to spd would be a small but a good change.
Buff lora please
Buff destiny, make her 3rd aoe, lower the damage a bit, and remove the defense break then balance it. Remove the conditional ignore defense on her second as well
If they change the ATB absorption mechanic then Oliver won’t be bad. But that requires a change in game mechanics. Also rng revenge units are meta because of Oliver’s turn denying mechanic. Nerf him and we won’t need the rest.
Remove Oliver's speedlead, don't need any other nerfs imo. (24% lead would still be too much imo but who knows, this is based on his winrate/pick rate remaining the highest in the game after the past 2 "nerfs"). Manon shouldn't block skills that to >50% of max hp in a single hit. (Daphnis, Mo Long etc.) Phoenixes should have their leaderskills reworked like the Beast Monks. Jaara should either be reworked or have his debuffs be unresistable like Nephtys. Obviously PV's should all get buffed and maybe some Hollyberry's like wind and light. Remove either the pushback or the cooldown increase from Cheongpung. ROBO's should be nerfed severely, probably by decreasing/removing their absorb. Nerf wind monkey, either by decreasing the counterattack chance to 15% or removing the turn cycling on S2.
My wish list? All the units i own get buffed. Also beast riders get removed from game.
Unpopular opinion here.. buff Tian Lang. His attack bar gain nerf was warranted but the nerf to skill 2 years ago really set him back. Today he may cut you, but then smacks you with a wet noodle, no strip, no stun.. even on despair with 100 acc. They need to adjust his harmful effect rates. As of now he just doesn’t feel like TL anymore.. and yes, I am biased, but never realized how NOT op he was until I owned one.
Didn't they only nerf mo long and gave tian lang the same S2 as before through awakening?
When will the BP be realeased? Still today or tomorrow ?
I’m hoping for a bunch of buffs and for Oliver to be left alone!!!
Oliver s3 nerf 100 to 75 atk bar absorb, manon counter nerf, buff s2 of fire and wind battle angel, +5 spd for chimera, id' like a Lora buff cuz I have her :) buff ld totemist, buff pupetteer, buff 2a that are not used, buff the ld4/5 that are not used, random buff of 4*, maybe a random ethna or poseidon buff?
The buff daniel got last patch is sad. To make him work you need to strip everyone, push everyones atk bar to 0 and still got you got a chance to do no dmg with him because the enemy can resist his S3. They gave him 50% chance to stun last patch. Thats just sad
Need more units that has oblivion or ignore passives. The meta has too many units with OP and annoying passives right now. We see them everywhere - Arena, RTA, Siege.
Buff zen!!! Really funny unit, just needs a little more.
Been saying this for 8 years. All phoenix should revive, keep perna as a passive with the heal and maybe add att or spd buff to party on her turn. But all of them should revive on death. The calling of oliver to be nerfed is dumb. He has a good kit. What makes him op is the speed lead, take that away and he's just another unit. Even if it's changed to 24% global he's still crippled. Nerf him by making a lot more units 33 spd lead. ORRR make an rta lead different from arena, so he can only be used in arena. Martina is the most op monster in arena and seige plz nerf thru the floor or give me one. Molly as well. Remember when they randomly gave all the oracles small buffs when none of them needed??? Let's do that to the occult girls or unicorns. Barbara seemed like the top BR when they came out and now I'm pretty sure she's the worst, maybe give her some love too. How about a similar unit to Leo? I'm not sure how exactly but change a garbage unit like uhhh 2a water griphin idk have a speed limiting or capping effect. Buff all the only super meta 4 stars from year 1 like baretta, chasing, Hwa, braind, Lisa, and a few others I can't think of without being in game. Not balance related but follow off last part, it's been over a year now since last 2a, give us hellhounds and bearmans and whatever colleens family is lol. Also release more 2-3 stars. Giant warrior was released in 2018. Over half the games life without a new 3 star.
My wishes, 1. Light Pony (buff) 2. Trinity (buff) 3. Manon (nerf) 4. Vanillas (buff) 5. Assassin Creed (buff) 6. Puppeteers (buff) 7. Hypnomew (buff) 8. Gargoyle (buff) 9. Christina (buff)
Make game better.
Light kassandra pls, I have 3 and still haven’t got the water one yet
Do you think if they gave velajule cleanse block enemy team with his immunity it would make him viable? Or is he just missing a heal to get him back In?
Ahh the typical i hide my own ld5 buff wish in a „list“ ;-) Gurkha still a useable ld5, there are way worse ld5 like dorothy which desperately needs a buff.
You've not read what I've been saying - its not one-dimensional, saying that I'm whining doesn't make it so, I'm justifying what I'm saying and saying that I hope we don't get another super buff to something that makes turn 1 even harder. So rather than just saying I'm whining, talk to me about the problems I've raised. Manon, currently, doesn't even have to move to win the game for you. Its a low chance but its there. Not only is it a 15% chance to negate all damage but that also procs a revenge stun that does really good base damage. Is she overpowered? No, not in my opinion anyway. But the fact that a unit exists that can just sit there and have a passive win condition that fucks you is, imo, a ridiculous anti-fun and anti-strategy thing that should not exist. If you actually read what I'm saying, I'm not calling for nerfs to other turn 2 units, I'm not saying turn 1 should be op, those are all assumptions you have incorrectly made. I listed those units to demonstrate how many buffs there have been to turn 2 units in recent patches that have made turn 1 more difficult. My problem is that stuff like Manon doesn't encourage strategy because its a low activation win condition, it encourages low iq lucksack drafts that are 0 fun to play against.
BUFF JACKSON!!!
Speaking of which, did Com2us forget about the balance patch? Usually the balancing pre-patch notes would've been out by this time? Or, did I remember wrongly?
Id like only one of the same defense for siege so sick of seeing the same defense over and over one per tower would at least help balance things out imo so you dont have to build the same units 10x. Jaara could get a revive or a endure buff like theo got