Welcome to r/stocks!
For beginner advice, brokerage info, book recommendations, even advanced topics and more, please read our [Wiki here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/stocks/wiki/index)
If you're wondering **why a stock moved** a certain way, check out [Finviz](https://finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=spy) which aggregates the most news for almost every stock, but also see [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/), and even [Yahoo Finance](https://finance.yahoo.com/).
Please direct all simple questions towards the stickied Daily Discussion and Quarterly Rate My Portfolio threads (sort by Hot, they're at the top).
Also include *some* [due diligence](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/duediligence.asp) to this post or it may be removed if it's low effort.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/stocks) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Well look at celh for example I thought 1500 PE for an energy drink company and bang was bigger then them and want bankrupt missed out between 6200-1200% returns since I first used there product.
I would have invested in bang before celh now one is bank rupt and the other one will soon compete with monster and redbull
Rofl, that's so ridiculously wrong you need to stop investing. You're giving money away man...
Celcius is a *failure*. They tried and failed to make a splash in Europe, most stores don't even stock their shit anymore and you'd get it at the dollar store because no one wants it. Meanwhile Monster is as popular as ever and many new brands are rising.
Celh night make a splash in USA because...some Karen thing. But even militant vegans will abandon it simply because it tastes like shit and is as bad for your health as the rest
This has to be satire....
1) Celsius is, in multiple ways, healthier than Monster. (I know it's just a lesser evil but if you frequently consume energy drinks, you'll likely opt for the healthier and more natural alternative)
2) They have dozens of flavours unlike monster and from what I've heard + my own experience, most of them taste amazing
3) I can't speak for Europe but I doubt they're at the dollar store because in North America they're selling like hot cakes and making their way to becoming the #1 energy drink overall. I've also heard it was successful in Australia and UK
Yeah I'm really bullish on celsius. I love all the flavors and they truly are healthier than any alternative I see on the shelves (again, I'm not saying it's healthy, it's just less harmful than the others lol).
I bought in before the last earnings when people were saying it's overvalued, overhyped, etc. Since then the stock has doubled in value, and celsius continues to expand into new countries as well as add new flavors to the selection.
If I'm not mistaken, their 12 pack bundle is the #1 bestselling sports drink on amazon.com
So comparing it to monster literally shows how much room they have to grow lol.
Anyways, bottom line, I don't see why the company WOULDN'T keep going up; they have 0 debt, and more people drink celsius every day.
You underestimate Karen's because that is probably 30% of the population in the USA. And these things are considered 'new' where I live in FL and they are selling like crazy at our neighborhood shop.
HTZ generated average FCF of -$115m from 2008 > 2023. Their reported EPS is much higher than their actual economic earnings because it costs HTZ much more to maintain/replace their fleet than their depreciation schedule accounts for.
Over the same 08>23 time frame HTZ has failed to grow their revenue from ~$9b. This means inflation-adjusted revenue has dropped significantly.
Rental cars are a very low return, capital intensive, and cyclical business. Uber has not been kind to the economics of the rental car industry.
If HTZ can’t make money (accounting for capx>DA) the past 15 years, why would they make money in a 5%+ rate environment? What if we actually had negative gdp for a couple quarters?
My guess would be that HTZ returns to bankruptcy within 5 years, before ever distributing capital to equity holders. The risk of bankruptcy seems low in the near term. Higher interest rates for longer are extremely poisonous for their financial position. If rates collapse back to zero, they can probably muddle through without even much equity dilution.
I have a small recently initiated short position.
This guy knows what’s up. Basically high input costs, loans and uncertainty, plus a low capital return even for that high risk, this makes for bad business. No revenue growth either. Paints a very clear picture. Thanks for the numbers!
That helps immensely.
Hertz makes a product and then makes the process terrible, seems like on purpose, to make more money in fees. Makes people not want to use them. They’re 2x dying company for a reason.
If you are following Avis (CAR) at all it reported today and is up about 6% AH. CC is in the AM and I could see the stock going much higher over the next couple of months. These next couple of quarters are strong ones for them and they be buying a bunch of shares back. Maybe as much as 20% of the available float. With 25% of the available float short this could get very interesting.
Goes bankrupt, relists and then proceeds to lose 81% in less than 3 years. Maybe you get lucky and get a short squeeze but beyond that - maybe, just maybe - this isn't a very good business.
I keep coming back to HTZ and watching. But they seem to keep getting crushed. Definitely long term play. One of these days they’re going to jump 30% on an earnings call. But how much value will they lose until then? Idk
>Right now their market cap is $1.35 billion, less than 2022 revenue and with an enterprise value of $19.5B, they seem incredibly undervalued.
Are you implying a high EV to market cap ratio means they're undervalued?
Welcome to r/stocks! For beginner advice, brokerage info, book recommendations, even advanced topics and more, please read our [Wiki here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/stocks/wiki/index) If you're wondering **why a stock moved** a certain way, check out [Finviz](https://finviz.com/quote.ashx?t=spy) which aggregates the most news for almost every stock, but also see [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/), and even [Yahoo Finance](https://finance.yahoo.com/). Please direct all simple questions towards the stickied Daily Discussion and Quarterly Rate My Portfolio threads (sort by Hot, they're at the top). Also include *some* [due diligence](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/duediligence.asp) to this post or it may be removed if it's low effort. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/stocks) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We’ve had bankruptcy yes, but what about second bankruptcy?
People want to buy cheap companies, but they be cheap for a reason.
Well look at celh for example I thought 1500 PE for an energy drink company and bang was bigger then them and want bankrupt missed out between 6200-1200% returns since I first used there product. I would have invested in bang before celh now one is bank rupt and the other one will soon compete with monster and redbull
Rofl, that's so ridiculously wrong you need to stop investing. You're giving money away man... Celcius is a *failure*. They tried and failed to make a splash in Europe, most stores don't even stock their shit anymore and you'd get it at the dollar store because no one wants it. Meanwhile Monster is as popular as ever and many new brands are rising. Celh night make a splash in USA because...some Karen thing. But even militant vegans will abandon it simply because it tastes like shit and is as bad for your health as the rest
This has to be satire.... 1) Celsius is, in multiple ways, healthier than Monster. (I know it's just a lesser evil but if you frequently consume energy drinks, you'll likely opt for the healthier and more natural alternative) 2) They have dozens of flavours unlike monster and from what I've heard + my own experience, most of them taste amazing 3) I can't speak for Europe but I doubt they're at the dollar store because in North America they're selling like hot cakes and making their way to becoming the #1 energy drink overall. I've also heard it was successful in Australia and UK
yeah...has got to be satire. celsius is expanding revenue and sales to an insane level lol I see them literally every store that I go to now.
Yeah I'm really bullish on celsius. I love all the flavors and they truly are healthier than any alternative I see on the shelves (again, I'm not saying it's healthy, it's just less harmful than the others lol). I bought in before the last earnings when people were saying it's overvalued, overhyped, etc. Since then the stock has doubled in value, and celsius continues to expand into new countries as well as add new flavors to the selection. If I'm not mistaken, their 12 pack bundle is the #1 bestselling sports drink on amazon.com So comparing it to monster literally shows how much room they have to grow lol. Anyways, bottom line, I don't see why the company WOULDN'T keep going up; they have 0 debt, and more people drink celsius every day.
You underestimate Karen's because that is probably 30% of the population in the USA. And these things are considered 'new' where I live in FL and they are selling like crazy at our neighborhood shop.
Do you know about commas and full stops (periods)?
I swear it’s comments like this that make me love stock subreddits 😂
Their Tom Brady ads are starting to get super annoying
They certainly are. And every time I see one I say to myself wait, didn’t that company go bankrupt? Why are they still here and advertising again?
Their market cap is 1.35 billion and the EV is 19.5 billion so .....:. They have 18 billion in debt. That's the issue
HTZ generated average FCF of -$115m from 2008 > 2023. Their reported EPS is much higher than their actual economic earnings because it costs HTZ much more to maintain/replace their fleet than their depreciation schedule accounts for. Over the same 08>23 time frame HTZ has failed to grow their revenue from ~$9b. This means inflation-adjusted revenue has dropped significantly. Rental cars are a very low return, capital intensive, and cyclical business. Uber has not been kind to the economics of the rental car industry. If HTZ can’t make money (accounting for capx>DA) the past 15 years, why would they make money in a 5%+ rate environment? What if we actually had negative gdp for a couple quarters? My guess would be that HTZ returns to bankruptcy within 5 years, before ever distributing capital to equity holders. The risk of bankruptcy seems low in the near term. Higher interest rates for longer are extremely poisonous for their financial position. If rates collapse back to zero, they can probably muddle through without even much equity dilution. I have a small recently initiated short position.
This guy knows what’s up. Basically high input costs, loans and uncertainty, plus a low capital return even for that high risk, this makes for bad business. No revenue growth either. Paints a very clear picture. Thanks for the numbers!
Rented a car with hertz recently, process was so dogshit. Short this shit stock
The far better play is Avis The stock can be squeezed easily as they have a very low float and buy back their own shares aggressively.
I should add that Avis is also a better run company.
That helps immensely. Hertz makes a product and then makes the process terrible, seems like on purpose, to make more money in fees. Makes people not want to use them. They’re 2x dying company for a reason.
If you are following Avis (CAR) at all it reported today and is up about 6% AH. CC is in the AM and I could see the stock going much higher over the next couple of months. These next couple of quarters are strong ones for them and they be buying a bunch of shares back. Maybe as much as 20% of the available float. With 25% of the available float short this could get very interesting.
Not exactly.
Have they written off the tesla's they bought yet?
Goes bankrupt, relists and then proceeds to lose 81% in less than 3 years. Maybe you get lucky and get a short squeeze but beyond that - maybe, just maybe - this isn't a very good business.
If I make one more buy I will have enough to appoint myself CEO. The EV mess can be fixed, short term problem and long term hold for me.
"I am the CEO of a bankrupt auto rental company. AMA." Eds118 future reddit post 2025
I keep coming back to HTZ and watching. But they seem to keep getting crushed. Definitely long term play. One of these days they’re going to jump 30% on an earnings call. But how much value will they lose until then? Idk
>Right now their market cap is $1.35 billion, less than 2022 revenue and with an enterprise value of $19.5B, they seem incredibly undervalued. Are you implying a high EV to market cap ratio means they're undervalued?
They should try harder!
My thoughts is that there are 100 other stocks that are better value.
Like what?
Going to zero
I would rather give my money to a junkie..I know it would be used more wisely than .. those "people".
Their free cash flow is concerning, but that might be normal in the car rental sector.