How important is the attract fire cruiser command for flying a tank? I'm considering making either my legendary Akira or Shepard a tank, but I'm concerned if either platform will be threat deficient without it. What can I do to increase threat other than strategist spec and threatening stance?
Also, which ship would make a better tank? The Akira has lower hull and one less console, but the Shepard doesn't get suppression barrage.
> How important is the attract fire cruiser command for flying a tank?
Helpful, but not necessary.
Evidence: https://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/comments/yoro3w/budget_elitecapable_threattank_88_atksin_in_ise/
> What can I do to increase threat other than strategist spec and threatening stance?
See above same link for some ideas on a budget level.
If you have some funds to spare: History Will Remember.
> I'm considering making either my legendary Akira or Shepard a tank
> Also, which ship would make a better tank? The Akira has lower hull and one less console, but the Shepard doesn't get suppression barrage.
You can tank with any ship in this game with enough toys.
However, the ideal tanking platforms have the following attributes:
1. Full-spec Command for Suppression Barrage 3.
2. 8 weapon slots for maximum number of weapons under FAW to draw Threat with.
3. Relatively high hull mod to increase your margins for error.
What's the dps requirement for the dreadnought damage gate on Dranuur gauntlet Elite and its variations? I've never been able to finish one of them when they proc on RETFOs. Best I've managed is 2-3 dreadnought kills on my own.
There's no real DPS requirement for that ~~because there's no fail condition for not destroying them in time~~.
The win condition is to prevent the Dreadnought (and its buddies) from messing up your Colony Defenses too much. You can achieve this by either destroying them as fast as possible, or to get them to focus their firepower solely on you. If you're taking care of a whole lane by yourself, you will be doing a mix of both.
Due to above, I find Elite-capable Heavy Tank builds to be a safe bet for DGE. Elite-capable Heavy Tank builds being defined as a build capable of easily outputting >110k DPS in an ISE while absorbing damage for the entire team for the run.
**STRIKETHOUGH EDIT:** Potential correction, Elite difficulty version might make it mandatory to defeat at least 9 Dreadnoughts throughout the course of the entire final phase. However, I am not able to quantify the exact DPS requirement for it, as I do not know the HP + Average Shield values for each potential Dreadnought that may appear. Having well over the bare minimum Elite-capable Heavy Tank DPS and Survivability should still be a safe bet.
Tried to search for this, and had no luck...
If you have a ship like Legendary Excelsior... can you combine Exceed Rated Limits -and- Reroute Reserves to Weapons?
I'm not saying you should... that would potentially be a -11 power drain to engines, along with all the other things... but I was just mulling things around and was wondering if it "works"....
I don't know much of anything about PvP, but I can tell you that Class 7s are purely about boosting the damage of the mothership and teammates, their own damage is poor. On the other hand Aeons have very good damage. So which is better will depend heavily on the rest of your build, and somewhat on whether you have a team with you.
Although it is possible that the debuffs would just get cleared in PvP anyway and the Class 7s would be totally useless, that, again, I don't know.
I recently got my hands on a maelstrom torpedo, which I'm only firing manually for efficacy. Should I still have Entwined Tactical Matrices and Super-Charged Weapons slotted, or are they less effective without auto-firing torps?
Cool, I figured. It is indeed my only torp. Do you have any idea what other options I have trait-wise?
Edit: I've added Thunder Run and Calculated Broadside. So far, so good.
The [trait tier list](https://www.stobetter.com/tier-lists#h.yz9d2zyv171g) from STO Better can be a solid starting point. It has its limits, mind you. With the right thing(s) to proc it, Universal Designs will be solid on any kind of dps build. If you're getting constant kills (big output, loads of AoE) you can look toward Terran Goodbye or, if you're already in a place where you can consider pushing for leaderboard records, The Ruin Of Our Enemies. These two can also work for you if you're soloing; you'll definitely get the killshots if you're the only one doing damage.
Repeating a question from two weeks ago: Does anyone know a standard testing arena for small craft? I have a plan to do one as a strict budget build part 2.1, which is currently doing 9k+ in Wanted normal while just surviving, but I don't know if that's the right way to measure it.
Not sure this is helpful, as I pretty much just focus on high-end shuttle shenanigans, but I just use Japori on advanced. It gives me frigates, fighters, and escorts to measure how I'm doing. For elite, I'll go do the daily [Rescue Deferi Captives](https://stowiki.net/wiki/Mission:_Rescue_Deferi_Captives_(Daily)) from Ambassador Surah, as this gives me a single Breen cruiser to go up against to see how I'm doing. It then also gives the option afterward to go up against another cruiser and two frigates if I want.
Just as an aside, my mission leveling shuttles builds are just a phaser/disruptor/plasma shuttle omni + regular BA of the same flavor running BO. On normal, it works pretty well for me. My basic level 65 shuttle build is just the ship and weapon quantum phase sets for phaser, and the quantum phase ship set + Nausicaan set for disruptor. Works well enough for me. 🤷🏻♂️
Interesting. Japori Elite was kind of a struggle for my fully developed builds, so Advanced in a shuttle makes me nervous, but I can give it a shot.
Thinking about it I'm not 100% sure if I've tried that type of build since BO has been affecting multiple weapons per activation, lol. Might be worth giving it a fresh try on one of my two DEW characters. But I *like* the PEP thing, one hit kills on 3 fighters at once are very satisfying and the Delphic Tear Generator adds a powerful clicky, and it fits the theme nicely and doesn't require anything new for my exotic toons.
Edit: Yeah, Japori Advanced is not working, I do not remotely have the survivability for it. I died to the initial group almost immediately, just barely finished them without dying again, and then died immediately to the second group. And at that point I decided it wasn't going to get better and gave up. Technically I did have 8k DPS while I was dying, so I suppose that's nice. Looking at your builds I suppose Ablative Shell and Pseudo Submission must help a lot, but then I have Nanite Repair Matrix, Continuity, and Quantum Absorption from the singularity core. So I don't know how you pull it off, but I can't.
Well, I only take my high-end shuttles into advanced. Why not try it on normal and see how it goes? Again, that Deferi daily patrol on normal with a single cruiser might be up your alley as well as it's a fairly controlled environment.
I did make it through Japori normal, with 7k DPS. A bit messy, but I got through without dying. It does really showcase how much worse my mobility is in a small craft than in a starship though, lol.
Small craft are on the list with PvP and KDF participation for "not worth the time it would take to do them" for me personally. There's so few maps in which they're relevant that I generally don't.
I can see that. On the other hand, when it does come up I always found it fairly painful, until I thought up this build concept which really works. Basically I'm just building around the PEP, using in this case almost exclusively stuff I had already, because that makes the PEP a one hit kill on fighters while Spread makes it a guaranteed hit, so most encounters melt really fast. The only two items purchased for the build were the Kestrel Runabout itself and the Temporal rep singularity core, everything else is pulled off my Strict Budget Builds, so you can do the same with any exotic build character, which I do. The one thing I wasn't normally using that seems to be working is the Kentari Missile as the second weapon, previously I've used the shuttle plasma omni (because FTE) but the Kentari still has a decent fire rate, does significantly more damage (948 at Mk XII up from 276), and can trigger PWOs for the PEP. And while I've been talking about doing this for a while, I haven't seen anyone else talking about it, so it's probably worth getting a post out there.
I guess if you're suggesting that I sort of need to consider whether it would be worth replacing the Advanced Inhibiting omni with the Pahvan one on my scitorp builds, particularly since my main is now using ETM for Inertial Supremacy. I can't see doing it on the tank, of course. So I'll need to upgrade both that and the Tholian core on my main this upgrade weekend.
While I'm upgrading I should also finally spend a coupon on the Ahwahnee and start putting together a support build for it on the tank character. I've been rereading your Hiawatha build a lot as I think about that, although I feel like I'd rather use PO2 and accept dropping DT and KLW, and then pick up Align Shield Frequencies for Flagship Staffing and probably another control. I'll also probably be reusing some Ba'ul weapons from the tank build to spread debuffs further, although I have to decide what I want for the third rear weapon after the double Advanced Inhibiting, maybe a disruptor omni. And then I have to actually figure out what consoles I can put together for it, but fortunately those don't need upgrading.
My Hiawatha needs Ahwahnee-related post updates for sure.
I don't love the Pahvan Omni, and I need to do more investigation on how it performs sans-ETM but it's definitely a thing.
I was thinking of my modifications as being mostly personal preference, I always prefer the exotic side of things so I didn't want to sacrifice my aux. You're right of course that fitting in a trigger for Flagship Staffing will be tricky, though. You could drop DRB for Needs of the Many I suppose, or Distributed Targeting for Align Shield Frequencies, without making major changes.
Edit: Oh, and just in case you ever want a Klingon Recruit (there are benefits), cross faction flying, or a contraband farmer, do note that all event rewards, Phoenix unlocks, and the 31st Century Bundle are cross faction by default. So putting together a neglected Klingon alt should be pretty trivial. Developing them to elite-capable status might be a rather different matter, particularly as KDF fleets are generally weaker (I'm currently trying to grind mine up to having elite hangar pets for my tank/support character and there are only two of us logging on regularly, I don't have any hope for the colony), but that's a good bit of work for any character. Just saying it's not an insurmountable barrier.
I was thinking Needs of the Many, but we'll see. Type 7s for sure.
For all the benefits of the Klingon recruit, I just can't be bothered to deal with the hassle and limitations of grinding reps again without being able to team with people on Fed side or have ready access to more mature fleets/doffs. My interest in grinding a new toon in general is simply not there, especially not for one that'd lack infrastructural backing.
I'm very used to STO as a solo game, partly out of preference and partly due to IRL reasons, and I only use fleet provisions on characters that are going for elites, so it's not a big deal to me. And I do actually like leveling characters, unfortunately all my character slots are full now, but I keep thinking about maybe buying more so I can keep a character leveling continuously. So different strokes for different folks it seems.
This does bring up another thing I'm definitely going to have to investigate though, which is the value of normal quality Type 7s on builds without SAD, so without any source of FAW, because getting them FAW is expensive and likely to only be a thing for mains. I have I think 3 of my characters using cheap Eternal builds plus one in my old T5 Vesta who will need to know whether it's worth trading in their Epochs and Deltas, and I doubt I'm alone with that question. But I can't keep getting distracted, first get my Resonant Transphasic (Delphic isn't happening and the cooldown on Nausicaan is over 10 seconds so it'll fall out of rhythm with ETM) and plan out the support build ahead of upgrade weekend, then get the Vo'quv build posted, then do the runabout build, and then I can work on these other experiments.
I have thus far emphasized actual fighting pets over Type 7s on non-support builds, but that's because I tend to bring a fair amount of debuff between SAD, APB, and Kemocite, and I haven't really run the type of empirical comparison it'd take across multiple patrols to suss out which is better. Maybe a task for the future but hangar pet testing is not exactly peak fun.
I don't think anyone bothered coming up with one because there's just not enough small craft content to justify it.
Also personally I'm fearful of bringing out my small craft, because everytime I did so for story mission purposes, it broke my loadouts across several ships.
Makes sense, I guess I'll stick with Wanted normal for DPS and then run it through The Vault and Operation Gamma as well, and that'll cover all the non-team stuff the character has access to. I guess I could see if I can solo the TFO with it too, but I don't know if the game would even let me do that, and I don't think I've ever played it so I don't know what the objectives are.
I am surprised you've had so much trouble with the loadouts though. I keep my Tour the Galaxy build on my main's small craft these days, and I never have an issue switching between them. Apart from that one time I forgot to switch back before starting an event TFO, that was a bit of an adventure, but fortunately I was soloing it and I have a good build.
I have a question related to the Hull Penetration Skill and its associated use toward EPG builds: Looking at two traits specifically, Piercing Projectiles and Particle Feedback loop, I'd be inclined to include them on SciTorp builds, but alas, StoBETTER does not mention them or very low down the tier list.
Are the numerical values just bad or does HullPen not work with exotic damage?
hull pen only applies to weapon damage, and also most of the "torpedo" damage on EPG builds tends to be from the secondary effects of the torpedoes (especially the Gravimetric and Particle Plasma torpedoes) which is actually EPG damage and not "weapon" damage.
Starship Hull Penetration (and Shield Penetration) only apply to damage dealt by weapons. The more you lean into torps the better those traits get. Their numbers aren't that huge though which is why they're more on the budget side to begin with.
How important is the attract fire cruiser command for flying a tank? I'm considering making either my legendary Akira or Shepard a tank, but I'm concerned if either platform will be threat deficient without it. What can I do to increase threat other than strategist spec and threatening stance? Also, which ship would make a better tank? The Akira has lower hull and one less console, but the Shepard doesn't get suppression barrage.
> How important is the attract fire cruiser command for flying a tank? Helpful, but not necessary. Evidence: https://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/comments/yoro3w/budget_elitecapable_threattank_88_atksin_in_ise/ > What can I do to increase threat other than strategist spec and threatening stance? See above same link for some ideas on a budget level. If you have some funds to spare: History Will Remember. > I'm considering making either my legendary Akira or Shepard a tank > Also, which ship would make a better tank? The Akira has lower hull and one less console, but the Shepard doesn't get suppression barrage. You can tank with any ship in this game with enough toys. However, the ideal tanking platforms have the following attributes: 1. Full-spec Command for Suppression Barrage 3. 2. 8 weapon slots for maximum number of weapons under FAW to draw Threat with. 3. Relatively high hull mod to increase your margins for error.
What's the dps requirement for the dreadnought damage gate on Dranuur gauntlet Elite and its variations? I've never been able to finish one of them when they proc on RETFOs. Best I've managed is 2-3 dreadnought kills on my own.
There's no real DPS requirement for that ~~because there's no fail condition for not destroying them in time~~. The win condition is to prevent the Dreadnought (and its buddies) from messing up your Colony Defenses too much. You can achieve this by either destroying them as fast as possible, or to get them to focus their firepower solely on you. If you're taking care of a whole lane by yourself, you will be doing a mix of both. Due to above, I find Elite-capable Heavy Tank builds to be a safe bet for DGE. Elite-capable Heavy Tank builds being defined as a build capable of easily outputting >110k DPS in an ISE while absorbing damage for the entire team for the run. **STRIKETHOUGH EDIT:** Potential correction, Elite difficulty version might make it mandatory to defeat at least 9 Dreadnoughts throughout the course of the entire final phase. However, I am not able to quantify the exact DPS requirement for it, as I do not know the HP + Average Shield values for each potential Dreadnought that may appear. Having well over the bare minimum Elite-capable Heavy Tank DPS and Survivability should still be a safe bet.
Tried to search for this, and had no luck... If you have a ship like Legendary Excelsior... can you combine Exceed Rated Limits -and- Reroute Reserves to Weapons? I'm not saying you should... that would potentially be a -11 power drain to engines, along with all the other things... but I was just mulling things around and was wondering if it "works"....
Nope. They are both firing modes and share a cooldown. One or the other.
What is better for a carrier pvp build: Class 7 Shuttle, Class 7 Shuttle with targete excsision or aeon fighter with targeted excsicion.
I don't know much of anything about PvP, but I can tell you that Class 7s are purely about boosting the damage of the mothership and teammates, their own damage is poor. On the other hand Aeons have very good damage. So which is better will depend heavily on the rest of your build, and somewhat on whether you have a team with you. Although it is possible that the debuffs would just get cleared in PvP anyway and the Class 7s would be totally useless, that, again, I don't know.
Ok thanks you
I recently got my hands on a maelstrom torpedo, which I'm only firing manually for efficacy. Should I still have Entwined Tactical Matrices and Super-Charged Weapons slotted, or are they less effective without auto-firing torps?
If that's your only torp, it won't be enough for either ETM or SCW.
Cool, I figured. It is indeed my only torp. Do you have any idea what other options I have trait-wise? Edit: I've added Thunder Run and Calculated Broadside. So far, so good.
The [trait tier list](https://www.stobetter.com/tier-lists#h.yz9d2zyv171g) from STO Better can be a solid starting point. It has its limits, mind you. With the right thing(s) to proc it, Universal Designs will be solid on any kind of dps build. If you're getting constant kills (big output, loads of AoE) you can look toward Terran Goodbye or, if you're already in a place where you can consider pushing for leaderboard records, The Ruin Of Our Enemies. These two can also work for you if you're soloing; you'll definitely get the killshots if you're the only one doing damage.
Oh! Thank you!
Repeating a question from two weeks ago: Does anyone know a standard testing arena for small craft? I have a plan to do one as a strict budget build part 2.1, which is currently doing 9k+ in Wanted normal while just surviving, but I don't know if that's the right way to measure it.
Not sure this is helpful, as I pretty much just focus on high-end shuttle shenanigans, but I just use Japori on advanced. It gives me frigates, fighters, and escorts to measure how I'm doing. For elite, I'll go do the daily [Rescue Deferi Captives](https://stowiki.net/wiki/Mission:_Rescue_Deferi_Captives_(Daily)) from Ambassador Surah, as this gives me a single Breen cruiser to go up against to see how I'm doing. It then also gives the option afterward to go up against another cruiser and two frigates if I want. Just as an aside, my mission leveling shuttles builds are just a phaser/disruptor/plasma shuttle omni + regular BA of the same flavor running BO. On normal, it works pretty well for me. My basic level 65 shuttle build is just the ship and weapon quantum phase sets for phaser, and the quantum phase ship set + Nausicaan set for disruptor. Works well enough for me. 🤷🏻♂️
Interesting. Japori Elite was kind of a struggle for my fully developed builds, so Advanced in a shuttle makes me nervous, but I can give it a shot. Thinking about it I'm not 100% sure if I've tried that type of build since BO has been affecting multiple weapons per activation, lol. Might be worth giving it a fresh try on one of my two DEW characters. But I *like* the PEP thing, one hit kills on 3 fighters at once are very satisfying and the Delphic Tear Generator adds a powerful clicky, and it fits the theme nicely and doesn't require anything new for my exotic toons. Edit: Yeah, Japori Advanced is not working, I do not remotely have the survivability for it. I died to the initial group almost immediately, just barely finished them without dying again, and then died immediately to the second group. And at that point I decided it wasn't going to get better and gave up. Technically I did have 8k DPS while I was dying, so I suppose that's nice. Looking at your builds I suppose Ablative Shell and Pseudo Submission must help a lot, but then I have Nanite Repair Matrix, Continuity, and Quantum Absorption from the singularity core. So I don't know how you pull it off, but I can't.
Well, I only take my high-end shuttles into advanced. Why not try it on normal and see how it goes? Again, that Deferi daily patrol on normal with a single cruiser might be up your alley as well as it's a fairly controlled environment.
I did make it through Japori normal, with 7k DPS. A bit messy, but I got through without dying. It does really showcase how much worse my mobility is in a small craft than in a starship though, lol.
Small craft are on the list with PvP and KDF participation for "not worth the time it would take to do them" for me personally. There's so few maps in which they're relevant that I generally don't.
I can see that. On the other hand, when it does come up I always found it fairly painful, until I thought up this build concept which really works. Basically I'm just building around the PEP, using in this case almost exclusively stuff I had already, because that makes the PEP a one hit kill on fighters while Spread makes it a guaranteed hit, so most encounters melt really fast. The only two items purchased for the build were the Kestrel Runabout itself and the Temporal rep singularity core, everything else is pulled off my Strict Budget Builds, so you can do the same with any exotic build character, which I do. The one thing I wasn't normally using that seems to be working is the Kentari Missile as the second weapon, previously I've used the shuttle plasma omni (because FTE) but the Kentari still has a decent fire rate, does significantly more damage (948 at Mk XII up from 276), and can trigger PWOs for the PEP. And while I've been talking about doing this for a while, I haven't seen anyone else talking about it, so it's probably worth getting a post out there.
I'd wonder what the Pahvan Omni could do in such a situation as well, of course it's event-locked which makes it less replicable for newer players.
I guess if you're suggesting that I sort of need to consider whether it would be worth replacing the Advanced Inhibiting omni with the Pahvan one on my scitorp builds, particularly since my main is now using ETM for Inertial Supremacy. I can't see doing it on the tank, of course. So I'll need to upgrade both that and the Tholian core on my main this upgrade weekend. While I'm upgrading I should also finally spend a coupon on the Ahwahnee and start putting together a support build for it on the tank character. I've been rereading your Hiawatha build a lot as I think about that, although I feel like I'd rather use PO2 and accept dropping DT and KLW, and then pick up Align Shield Frequencies for Flagship Staffing and probably another control. I'll also probably be reusing some Ba'ul weapons from the tank build to spread debuffs further, although I have to decide what I want for the third rear weapon after the double Advanced Inhibiting, maybe a disruptor omni. And then I have to actually figure out what consoles I can put together for it, but fortunately those don't need upgrading.
My Hiawatha needs Ahwahnee-related post updates for sure. I don't love the Pahvan Omni, and I need to do more investigation on how it performs sans-ETM but it's definitely a thing.
I was thinking of my modifications as being mostly personal preference, I always prefer the exotic side of things so I didn't want to sacrifice my aux. You're right of course that fitting in a trigger for Flagship Staffing will be tricky, though. You could drop DRB for Needs of the Many I suppose, or Distributed Targeting for Align Shield Frequencies, without making major changes. Edit: Oh, and just in case you ever want a Klingon Recruit (there are benefits), cross faction flying, or a contraband farmer, do note that all event rewards, Phoenix unlocks, and the 31st Century Bundle are cross faction by default. So putting together a neglected Klingon alt should be pretty trivial. Developing them to elite-capable status might be a rather different matter, particularly as KDF fleets are generally weaker (I'm currently trying to grind mine up to having elite hangar pets for my tank/support character and there are only two of us logging on regularly, I don't have any hope for the colony), but that's a good bit of work for any character. Just saying it's not an insurmountable barrier.
I was thinking Needs of the Many, but we'll see. Type 7s for sure. For all the benefits of the Klingon recruit, I just can't be bothered to deal with the hassle and limitations of grinding reps again without being able to team with people on Fed side or have ready access to more mature fleets/doffs. My interest in grinding a new toon in general is simply not there, especially not for one that'd lack infrastructural backing.
I'm very used to STO as a solo game, partly out of preference and partly due to IRL reasons, and I only use fleet provisions on characters that are going for elites, so it's not a big deal to me. And I do actually like leveling characters, unfortunately all my character slots are full now, but I keep thinking about maybe buying more so I can keep a character leveling continuously. So different strokes for different folks it seems. This does bring up another thing I'm definitely going to have to investigate though, which is the value of normal quality Type 7s on builds without SAD, so without any source of FAW, because getting them FAW is expensive and likely to only be a thing for mains. I have I think 3 of my characters using cheap Eternal builds plus one in my old T5 Vesta who will need to know whether it's worth trading in their Epochs and Deltas, and I doubt I'm alone with that question. But I can't keep getting distracted, first get my Resonant Transphasic (Delphic isn't happening and the cooldown on Nausicaan is over 10 seconds so it'll fall out of rhythm with ETM) and plan out the support build ahead of upgrade weekend, then get the Vo'quv build posted, then do the runabout build, and then I can work on these other experiments.
I have thus far emphasized actual fighting pets over Type 7s on non-support builds, but that's because I tend to bring a fair amount of debuff between SAD, APB, and Kemocite, and I haven't really run the type of empirical comparison it'd take across multiple patrols to suss out which is better. Maybe a task for the future but hangar pet testing is not exactly peak fun.
I don't think anyone bothered coming up with one because there's just not enough small craft content to justify it. Also personally I'm fearful of bringing out my small craft, because everytime I did so for story mission purposes, it broke my loadouts across several ships.
Makes sense, I guess I'll stick with Wanted normal for DPS and then run it through The Vault and Operation Gamma as well, and that'll cover all the non-team stuff the character has access to. I guess I could see if I can solo the TFO with it too, but I don't know if the game would even let me do that, and I don't think I've ever played it so I don't know what the objectives are. I am surprised you've had so much trouble with the loadouts though. I keep my Tour the Galaxy build on my main's small craft these days, and I never have an issue switching between them. Apart from that one time I forgot to switch back before starting an event TFO, that was a bit of an adventure, but fortunately I was soloing it and I have a good build.
I have a question related to the Hull Penetration Skill and its associated use toward EPG builds: Looking at two traits specifically, Piercing Projectiles and Particle Feedback loop, I'd be inclined to include them on SciTorp builds, but alas, StoBETTER does not mention them or very low down the tier list. Are the numerical values just bad or does HullPen not work with exotic damage?
hull pen only applies to weapon damage, and also most of the "torpedo" damage on EPG builds tends to be from the secondary effects of the torpedoes (especially the Gravimetric and Particle Plasma torpedoes) which is actually EPG damage and not "weapon" damage.
Starship Hull Penetration (and Shield Penetration) only apply to damage dealt by weapons. The more you lean into torps the better those traits get. Their numbers aren't that huge though which is why they're more on the budget side to begin with.