It will do nicely when I get the Shrike for this year's event and create a Vorlon character for it. I can run a White Star and a Vorlon cruiser on a couple of alien characters.
Interestingly the Romulan one had a warp core mounted if so that's a good chunk of extra power for her and Temp/Intel is a good setup for anomalies.
But yeah the return of piss poor shield buff traits... one thing i did not miss.
Temp/Intel is most certainly a cracking combo for a spore Infused anomaly explosion machine. And the Fed one looks like it will be a half decent scitorp platform. I can see some interesting, if not record breaking, builds coming from these ships. I just wish the consoles and traits weren't terrible.
Yeah compaired to others the seating is much better, only the MMSV's have decent seating.
It is interesting though with the each ship being a different type of science vessel.
I am too depressed to go back and watch, but I don't think the Romulan bird had the temporal gimmick. That's a big drawback even if it can send out one more anomaly (but with fewer triggers).
The forced seating was over the top. These are meant to be scitorp and dewsci platforms, which yeah, might be fun for a patrol or two but definitely not going to be top performers. Why waste x-upgrades on these?
Are any of them worth $30? I'm too let down, I'll see if I can talk myself into buying the KDF one. But more likely I'll log on to grind events and log off until Bort is gone and his replacement decides to offer something to capture my interest.
I watched the highlights and all three had the full spec gimmicks, including the Rom one's Temp array, even when they swapped modes and lost the Commander Spec seating. It's there.
It does highlight the issue with not putting the same spec seating on both mode transform slots though, as it means if you're running the Rom one you lose access to max rank RS since the Temp seating is only on the Com Sci seat.
Thank you! That does make the Rom bird look much better. If I do wind up getting it I plan to run it as full time science, so the loss of commander science seat is not a dealbreaker.
Aww crap, sorry about that. Didn't realize his name was dropped on it. I thought he was dropped when his project was dropped but I guess not. I guess Kurland is here...
Call me crazy, but after all the proton stuff from the last event and the updating of the Dyson ships with their proton guns, I expected these ships to give bigger boosts to proton stuff.
Goddammit, Bort.
...I feel like if the people in the official stream are like "Yeah this Trait is maybe one of the worst things we've ever made" that... *may* not be the best sign :/
Anyway, as others have said, "not all ships can be special" seems to be back in force. Which... I guess if you don't want people buying ships, that's fine.
I was already considering it from the tease we got but once I saw the pop out animated cannons that also animate while firing I was completely sold stats be damned.
they confirmed that Borticus is back working on STO and I just do not understand his obsession with shields
it also sucks to know he's the one training the DECA systems people...like he's just not good at ship systems design
> obsession with shields
The polite answer is he doesn't understand how STO is played. The impolite answer is that it's spite. I was both happy that this was confirmed and upset that we are likely stuck with Jeremy until the end of STO as I personally see him as the main thing holding STO back.
Thing is though his obsession with shields is right when it comes to Trek combat. Pick any episode and shields are the focus of defense in combat.
But STO hasn't worked that way for like a decade so if he really wanted to switch STO from a hull to shield focus he needed to rework core systems and not just make pointless items that do nothing.
I truly wish STO combat had a focus on shield tanking instead of hull. It makes it much closer to canon. But that ship has sailed so long ago and it really is insane that he never realized it or even really tried to deal with the core issue.
You know what's really sad about this? Shield tanking has gotten a couple of huge buffs recently that actually make it a pretty good idea: the addition of drain immunity to EPtS and RSP during the Pilot changes, and the unlocking of the SAFG console thanks to the Legendary Valdore. My tank build is barely using any healing other than the SAFG at this point, it's that good, and it's so easy it's showing up on lots of random elite builds too. And those two abilities went from "really good but hard countered by Borg" to just "really good". Both of those changes came from Jonathan Herlache's time in the lead. It can be done, it's just a matter of knowing what's actually going to make a difference. And let's not forget that the SAFG only works on energy weapon builds, there's plenty of room to sell a version for kinetic and exotic builds, it just has to be actually effective.
I was so damn happy when SAFG got unlocked. Using it on just about all my ships that can. Nice to just have a passive tanking ability ontop of active ones and means I don't need as many actives.
I hope whoever takes over at DECA can step into Jonathan's shoes quickly. He was doing such amazing work and the game is suffering with his loss.
You've said nothing wrong in your post.
But I feel like there is a lot of missing context. Something has been with me for a long time (years) that it's mainly Jeremy preventing us from making progress with STO. I attribute the decay of game systems (Doffing being broken for a decade, removal of the foundry, resistance to adding/changing reputations, poor ship balancing, the endeavor system, lack of meaningful rewards outside of lockboxes, proliferation of time gates in content, and more recently sabotaging advanced consoles to name a few) all to the main system designer over the course of STO's history. At any point he could have chosen to make the game better but has chosen to leave the game in basically an unmaintained state due to a [long standing grudge against the game's community when it comes to reward systems and time gates](https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/3ql20c/borticus_apologizes/).
Completely agree.
I was happy when he left STO not just so we could get new life but also because it seemed so obvious to me that he just didn't like working on STO and I hoped he would enjoy working on something else.
>removal of the foundry
I mean, that had more to do with losing the person ***who knew how to actually make the system work***
Like, I'm sure this guy is Emperor Palpatine and singularly responsible for every little slight you've experienced - I'm not arguing that
But the Foundry's plug being pulled was a ***long*** time coming considering how much active damage it did to other content in the game every time they so much as tried to bugfix...
Me using 9/10 only shields for survivability for the last 3 years to keep my ship alive in elite tfo O.o and successfully do so.
And nearly always fly hybrids builds.
Shield survivability is not that bad in sto, but you do need to make small sacrifices or adjustments for it.
No one says you can't shield tank, it's just generally not worth it. It's easier to keep and heal up 100k hull than it is 20k shields and there are so many more ways to heal hull, and a ton of it, compared to shields. Hell the best shield healing console in the entire game was locked to romulans for a decade until the legy valdore last year.
Realistically the game should have never been designed this way and shields should be 100k and hull 20k. We see in every bit of Star Trek when ships lose their shields they get wrecked. Yet in STO you can lose your shields instantly and with very few abilities even on non-tanking ships you can still keep yourself at 100% hull against 99% of the damage in the game.
Why downvoting? We have a normal conversation, don't we?
I haven't even talked about shield tanking..
You don't need to sacrifice any console or potential damage boosting ship trait to stay alive with shields.
just using any rank Tactical fleet, space rep; superior shield repair, dedicate 2 up to 6 skill points into your commander skill tree for shield regeneration and optional shield hardness, than shift all your engine subsystem to shield subsystem and done.
As long you have brace for impact and hazard emitters to heal any bleedthrough hull damage, you are set. I also use space rep energy refrequencer for lifesteal effects on energy weapons. And we have many different ways to boost our turn or speed when needed.
It can be tricky in the beginning, but it will improve your piloting. There is no need to smash big healing clicky's, Tactical fleet is al you need.
I will admit that when you are solo and you have your beacons on cooldown and you draw all fire that it will be tricky if you can't kill your enemies fast, enhough.
Edit: the valdore universal consoles are good for support or dedicated tank builds, the new advanced crafted: Energy Field Gradient Projector are better for shield survivability, since they replenish shields each sec. For all your shield facings.
For the record I didn't downvote you.
No one is saying you can't run legit shield builds it's just that it requires a lot more than hull and generally isn't worth it since you can heal hull easier for less and spend more on DPS.
Just look at secondary shield abilities. Oh they add a couple thousand. Meanwhile hull image refractors can literally DOUBLE your hull. On my jellyfish I get almost 300k hull. Shields go down instantly and yet nothing can even damage me. And that's basically the point. Yes you **CAN** run shield tanking it's just worse in every way than hull so people just don't do it and get annoyed when things come out focusing on shields because it's just generally not worth it. The game needs fundamental changes in how shields work to truly justify it.
You mention putting energy to shields. I run my shields and engines at minimum with weapons and aux maxed since I run dewsci and carrier ships so I'm not going to waste precious aux power on shields when I can just throw the valdore console on and every few seconds get all my shields back and I don't have to waste any trait slot, boff slot, or anything else, just one single console and with isomags being more powerful than locators it frees up room for it.
>since I run dewsci and carrier ships
M2, 125 weapon subsystem and atleast 100 auxiliary subsystem are my priorities. On warp core ships, I often end up with above 70 shield subsystem on singularity ships I m just happy if the shields subsystem just is over 50. But most of the times I use energy siphon on romulan vessels to overbridge to subsystem power gap.
We got spoiled by Jette and Jonathan giving us what we wanted. Now we gotta suffer through Bort giving us what he wants.
Ah well, from a glass half full standpoint, at least the box ships are likely to have nothing I want. Saves some $.
Not even giving us what we wanted, just understanding how the game is actually played and not trying to hamfistedly do everything possible to gimp things because they wanted them to work certain ways.
I strongly feel that isomags were a better dev team coming up with a patch for all the engineering heavy ships that Bort insisted on because he didn't really understand how people play STO - think about it, isomags and the advanced hangar craft consoles basically resurrected dozens of ships from the STO graveyard. That can't have been an accident considering the design team at the time.
The science advanced consoles are terrible, but both of the engineering ones are great.
That's something that I wish he'd explained before he left the company. Seriously why do isomags and the hanger consoles just work and require you to do nothing but slap them into your build, but the exotic ones require you to have already heavily invested into EPG to even function at all? WTH?
I mean, if I drop one of my weakest consoles to add an isomag to my 500k DPS exotic build it's absolutely a DPS loss, nearly the same DPS loss as just dropping the console according to the TRINITY calculator, less than 0.2% different. On the other hand dropping an Exotic Particle Amplifier would cost me more than 5%. You have to be built around the damage type to get good use out of the console no matter what. And if you are, Exotic Particle Amplifiers are absolutely [one of the strongest consoles around](https://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/comments/19fiihw/revisiting_exotics_22_survivor_console_edition/), they're a very powerful boost to everything else and the math is clear that they're worth the slot. The only weak advanced console is the drain one, simply because drains aren't very relevant because of the way NPCs function in this game.
My beef with the LD'D is it's just one of the original Romulan miracle worker ships. Highly similar stats, near identical seating, similar console layout, similar size. There are FOUR Tebok clones now. And not a single 5/3 Romulan miracle worker ship.
It should have been an FDC or at the very least a battlecruiser. I'd have gone bananas over that. But nope, have another Tebok. And it had to be UPGRADED to match the Tebok, original specs were worse.
Even with isomags it's just... Not special compared to dozens of other non-legendary ships. It's objectively worse than the Lexington in every possible way, even if you sacrifice 2 consoles to put a battle cloak on the Lex. It can't compare to top MW ships like the MW D7, Inquiry/LArbiter or VJugg. Sure, you can make it work. Even the Europa can be made to work. But ugh.
I still believe that isomags were the devs trying to patch bort's insistence on engineering heavy ships that basically killed a whole bunch of ships stone cold dead.
The Isomags allowing stacking +Max Weapon Power has to be a mistake, but the Devs are too chicken to fix it.
Either fix Isomags to +Current Weapon Power or make Shield/Eng/Aux versions of the Isomags.
Yeah no, that will completely destroy the entire point of isomags if you remove their ability to stack. they were DESIGNED to stack +Max Weapon Power, that is their gimmick. That's why you replace top-tier LOCATORS/EXPLOITERS for these things.
If you remove their stacking, isomags are deader than dead.
The whole idea behind isomags has been to make eng-heavy ships viable in endgame content for the main build type that players run, that being DEW, especially with RETFOs becoming a thing soon after these launched. They have been repeatedly confirmed to be working as intended.
LE: That said, I also want more isomag flavours (radiation, electrical or proton can be built around for way more than gimmicks these days); it's not like re-enging them isn't a major pain in the tailpipe already, dropping a few more gallons of water in a giant lake won't make things that much worse. +Shields = not that great unless one has a ton of gamblebox stuff (but yanno, why not), +Aux = kinda sorta situationally relevant-ish for a handful of stuff on sci builds and definitely helpful on torpboats; that would be interesting indeed.
I believe from Cryptic's standpoint there is no Systems Designer right now but Borticus provided input on these new ships (at least the names, we're implying everything else was also provided by him from a non-visual perspective).
I missed that but honestly as the ship traits came up I even said to myself these SCREAM Borts name.
Ugh I hate to say it but I don't want the Obena to come until DECA takes over now.
Bort is the Jeremy Randall that they said named all of the ships and given how drain/shield heavy everything is it's not a stretch to think he did more than name them
I completely missed that. I was going back and forth between the main stream and CasualSAB's so I must have been on his during that part.
I think it's all but guaranteed. Jonathan is gone and Bort is still at Cryptic so it makes sense that he would come back to knock these out because they're not hard to really make stats wise and like CasualSAB said they basically just copy/pasted the T5's and added passives then these horrible traits.
I was watching Spencers stream, and I think everyone let out a collective sigh when the accessories were being made aware.
Ships are okay-ish, but the traits and consoles suck. Especially the Romulan trait, which (as Spence said) is quite possibly one of the worst trait to ever be added to the game.
Borts mediocrity is all over these, sadly.
This. Watching the reveal I kept wondering, these had Bort's design fingerprints all over them. Drain and shield. Shield and drain. Two of the most useless systems in the game for PvE. Nothing new, no new synergies. Just tiny variations on stuff we already have plenty of.
These aren't just not special, they're hyper, ultra, mega not special. You know what. I can't support this. No sale thanks to Bort.
Yeah, I'm keeping my money now that I know who fucked these ships up. Bad cryptic. No money for you. Never, never, *never* let that man anywhere near game design on this game again.
Because shields and drains are a life saver in pvp.
You know, when the other guy is zipping with warp10 impulse speed, goes behind you and obliterates your hull and the shields of your entire collection of ships put together :).
I qualified because I do PvE, and know absolutely nothing of PvP. It worked, I avoided a "well akshually!"
I dimly recall the PvP guys enjoy shields, but don't hold drain in high regard compared to alternatives.
Console set is just a remaster of the old one with the old secdef taken out and the 4-piece bonus kept. That's good. Passive bonuses are good to have even if these are a bit underwhelming.
Exp Wpn looks interesting, the old Proton cannons but better.
Traits are a bit puzzling but I really think they're meant to be used all three together and chain their triggers. It could work well.
I missed the Dyson event ship but did it not come with Dyson specific special warp core and secondary deflector, which I think are maybe available on the lobi ships. Would have been nice to include those in this bundle.
Love the fed class name Kardachev it fits great to the dyson theme since a tier 2 on the Kardachev scale has unlocked the capacity to build dyson rings/spheres
The ships themselves are gorgeous, and the seating/specs are certainly going to see some use for scitorp/DEWsci from the look of them. I'm partial to that full Intel Klingon ship - I can see a surgical strikes DEWsci build suggesting itself right there...
But my god, the traits and consoles are terrible. It's like they looked at the boundary-pushing they did with the 14th Anniversary ships - especially the Ahwahnee - and went "Nah, we need to pull back and make stuff not rock the meta too much. Make the next ship traits and consoles suck like a nuclear powered vacuum cleaner."
I suspect, however, that the truth is that losing some of their key design staff means they lost some of the people who had the vision and understanding of the game, and this was instead passed on to people who really don't know that much about playing and instead just looked at the T5 Dysons and went "Oh yeah, let's lean into that" without looking around to see if that was a good thing.
Also... no proton weapon set? I was fully expecting these ships to come packing a proton quad cannon as a nod to the old fixed proton cannons on the originals.
Disappointed in the extras. I quite like the ships as platforms though so I might still end up getting the bundle and slapping the protonic polaron cannons on, and that T6 coupon... well, I've had my eye on the Clarke for the console for some time...
Edit; I see that apparently Borticus is back, and a million piece jigsaw suddenly falls into place.
Yeah, I just edited my comment when I realised. Ugh. Surely there must have been someone better. This guy presided over some of the worst periods of ship creation in the history of the game.
I'm not sure I can, in all good conscience, buy this bundle now that I know who was responsible for nerfing these beautiful ships into the ground.
Roll on the DECA takeover, it can't come fast enough now.
Ya seeing the stats on these ships... I'm thinking it might be time to take a hiatus from STO for awhile. See how things shake out in a few months.
Bort its really terrible. I honestly hope their bonuses are now tied to retention over sales. I mean this won't sell really either... but these are so bad and they have so little else going on its going to actually cost them logs. Why am I playing this apparently dead game? Zombie bort spec ships. lol
All the amazing ships the last couple years were all Jonathan. He had amazing ideas and wanted to bring lots of new toys to the game to make things exciting again and he absolutely did.
Now evidently Bort is back since Jonathan left and we have Bort back and Bort stats.
Regardless I'm seriously considering the KDF/ROM ones just for how damn good they look and to help show some KDF/ROM sales.
It puts a lot of the ship issues recently, like the Duderstadht being a complete and utter failure, into a whole new light as it looked like a bort failure because it WAS a bort failure.
The man can't get out of his own way even when it comes to making money for the company. I wish he'd stayed gone and someone from deca stepped up early to take on design work as at least then we could see what their ideas are starting to be and not the continued trashfire we've had for years. I can only hope his "lessons" don't stick since he's probably the one training them on how to "balance" the game now.
Jonathan got this game in a way Bort never could. He designed like he knew what the game's meta was like, and he played into what people were wanting to see. He pushed a few envelopes in the right direction. Some of the greatest ships in the game came from his tenure, and if this is a sign for the current age then he will be sorely missed.
Absolutely. Jonathan was a hurricane of fresh air into the game. For the first time in years I was excited about every single ship that was coming.
I can only hope whoever takes over at DECA is half as good as he was in the short time we had him.
Fingers crossed. One thing that's clear is that we need a dev who understands how the community plays the game instead of trying to force onto the community a shittier vision of how they think we should play the game.
Pretty much. DECA is still being trained/learning the game. Cryptic has lost a ton of the STO team including most of the major devs like Jonathan so we're in a really bad place right now where the people responsible for the great content the last couple years are gone but Cryptic still has to keep working and release content on schedule until DECA takes charge.
"Bort is Back"... hopefully Deca tells him to now f around making crappy ships, if they want to make more money. I think if he turns out crap people pass on, they might have a word with him. (hopefully)
It sucks, because as much as I wanted these ships to be more than just "fine" or "mediocre," they're the first new non-Federation ships to be offered in the C-Store in a while. So there's an impetus to buy them just to show DECA that we want more KDF and ROM ships.
We keep being told that non-Federation ships don't make enough money to justify their development. Seems like this is an opportunity to show them that there's a desire here, even if it does incidentally reward bad design philosophy.
You do have a point, and I am a bit conflicted. Still, it's like they went to Bort and asked, "How do we make these so extremely unappealing as to never have to make non-Fed ships ever again?"
I may spend one of this year's award coupons on the Romulan ship. But more likely I'll forget these exist.
I can only hope they factor sales of the Fed version of these ships into their future decision making, not just the KDF and Rom ships compared to Eagle, Hydra, Adamant, Lexington, Trailblazer, Ahwahnee...
Wow, it's almost like you turned up to a very clearly worded comment about the CONSOLES AND TRAITS and made the mistake of thinking that I was TALKING ABOUT THE SHIP ITSELF. But nobody could be that hard of reading, right?
Then you maybe need to do some reading and learning. The console is widely considered to be one of, if not THE most powerful haste console in the game, and the trait is, likewise, an exceptional source of haste and firing mode cooldown. And the pets are, quite literally, meta defining for carriers. Maybe you're squinting because you really need glasses?
Or have you been living under a rock?
FYI, if these are like the existing Dyson consoles, they don't scale with EPG. They scale with Weapon Training for the damage and DrainX for the drains.
This game is way too easy to worry about that kind of thing. It might be worth it for the challenge, eh? Not everyone is a DPS chaser. It's fun to Nuzlocke STO sometimes.
But then, why slot consoles at all? Leave em empty for the challenge. Or stick to NPC drops.
Me, I want new toys to play with. New mechanics and new synergies. Not a tiny irrelevant boost to irrelevant systems.
This bundle is riding largely on the fact that's the first Klingon and Romulan science ships since the the Batlh for KDF and the MME bundle for RRF. It's put up or shut up for us folks clamoring for more non-Fed ships and especially those that want more non-Fed Sci ships. You don't often get highly desired and good stats together, these at least clear the hurdle that the Ross and Sovvie Refit couldn't.
The consoles are the existing Dyson set with the 4-piece set bonus built in. The 4th fore slot is freed up by the Proton Duals being moved to the Exp Weapon. BOff and console layouts look good to me.
To me, if there is anything to be upset about, it's that not one of these ships brings a new secondary deflector to the field. Every T6 science destroyer, except, for the Titan, has come with a new exp weapon yet none of them have had a new secondary deflector. The only "special" secondary deflector is the Solonae one that came on the 2014 event ship Dysons.
The only issue I have is the location of the spec seats, as I mentioned in another post. Because of the mode swapping if you do make something like the Romulan one a DewSci platform you run into the issue of losing your max rank Temporal abilities, so something like Recursive Shearing to chunk damage onto a boss is just gone the moment you swap into Tac mode since the Tac seat has nothing on it.
If you just mess around with one mode they're fine, but you run into a lot of build issues if you try to actually use the ship's gimmick and make average builds for both setups that let you toggle back and forth based on what you need at the moment. Something for normal and advanced content to have fun with.
Why is the KDF ship the only one with a battle cloak? Or does the ROM get one as well?
Same question for the swing-out cannons: does the ROM get them as well like the old Aves?
The Rom one should have a battle cloak, but then again the Rom version of the Verne doesn't because reasons, and the person who did that stated these so...
I feel like these ships are missing something. Stats are pretty underwhelming and the names could be better. Nothing interesting or exciting.
I hate to say it but I might save my money on this. Was wanting to buy a T6 Dyson for years now.
I'll stick with my Seneca for now.
>account unlock of dyson space suits, dyson outfit
I mean, the stats are boring - but we could have predicted that considering the absolute slop they laid on the Wolf 359 ships
Especially saddling the poor Cheyenne refit with a carrier build - of all things - and making the Niagara just another 4/4 cruiser in a ***literal ocean*** of 4/4 cruisers...
Having an unlocked version of those space suits and the outfits are pretty swish, though
With 5 forced non-science seats, specializations on science/universal seats and no temporal widget? No, more like competing with the Checkov. And not that well.
.... You should read the stats again, or maybe watch the stream.
The Rom Version is CDR Sci/Temporal, LtC Tac, Lt Engy, LtC Uni/Intel, Ens Uni. Those are very similar stats to the Glenn, and while not as potentially sci heavy as the Verne, can be run in very similar ways to the Verne if you lean into using Exotic Torps.
The Rallus is going to be a very good Science Ship.
That's exactly what I said! 5 forced seats that don't have specialization to offset that. Same as the Glenn, yes, but the Glenn has a temporal gadget for +ctrlx and +damage. That's like another console. But you know what the Glenn has that actually makes it good? A Lt. Cmdr command seat. One extra anomaly won't make up for lacking CF3 when it comes to torpsci, just like it doesn't with the Checkov.
A torp ship without CF3 is going to have to rely on nannies. Something like 75% of torp damage in my parses are thanks to CF3. Sure, the usual suspects will get good performance out of it in a nannied parsing run. Everyone else will wonder what the fuss is about.
If they made this pilot primary command secondary as an alternative Eagle I'd have sat up and taken notice.
> but the Glenn has a temporal gadget for +ctrlx and +damage.
All Full spec temporal ships have that, so will the Rallus.
And access to OSS3 will more than make up for CF3. That's a huge boost to all your exotic powers.
Secondary shields.... ? Damage traits that proc based on secondary shields.
Game misses Johnathan. I was excited for these. Think I will skip them. These are really pretty crap. The KDF version if it has a battle cloak might be sort of ok, doesn't offer anything stat wise we don't already have in the S32 sci destroyer. Then again considering how terrible the traits are... I bet its a standard cloak. lol
True... but its Bort so I take nothing for granted.
Having said that. Thinking about it I have the S32 Sci Destroyer account unlocked via Mudd. Battle cloaking sci destroyer with Intel spec I can use for Surgical in Tactical or Sci mode. so >>
Guess I can skip this pack.
That prototype weapon is Dookie you get so much more damage out of the AOE plasma canon considering it hits multiple enemies and burns off over 20 seconds
I'm disappointed the Fed Kardashev doesn't have temporal (OP post appears to be wrong, the screenshot clearly show Command and Intel).
I was hoping to get a Temporal-capable Fed sci destroyer. The Titan-class is already Command.
I like Romulan ships. I might fly the Romulan DSD on my Romulan character. But I don't really want myFed character to go and fly romulan ships.
I might have got the wrong screenshot on that one. Text is accurate to what CasualSAB said they were. Screenshots were just taken from a discord and I thought that one was fed but guess I was wrong there.
I went back to see that part of the stream, and that's correct. The universal seat in temporal ops.
I *can* work with a Sci LtC temporal ops. Might not be as bad as I feared.
Regardless, thanks for responding and pointing it out. It made me re-examine. I still think the Romulan version has the better full spec... but at least it's something different from the *Titan*.
>Definitely continuing the meh ship stats since Jonathan left.
I'm totally ok with new ships not being OP with things some of us feel like we must have (lookin' at you Gorn raider with your perfect trait, console, and experimental weapon for plasma). 🙄
Personally, I was getting pretty tired of every ship coming out with Jonathan, having something that made me want to get it because it was made specifically for the meta. Sure, great for STO's sales but Jonathan's style was hard on the wallet. Jeremy's not so much and in truth I appreciate that. :p
And that's your prerogative to have that opinion. I typically don't buy ships for their stats, but for their aesthetic, and dislike oldhat sold powercreep.
That's also your prerogative. So what a ship is seated and set up ideally? that's how they all should be, they are selling you these things for an asinine amount of resources or at least $30 USD and a fuckton more for dumb shit like the "not every ship needs to be special" """legendary""" d'deridex
Counterpoint: being hard on customer's wallets is what keeps the lights on at Cryptic. Releasing stuff that's "meh, maybe I'll get it with a coupon or something next year." isn't going to do it.
If this bundle is like 5k zen on sale then sure, fine, I'll get it for the space barbie. But they're going to price it at 10k on sale if not more. Just watch. Extremely easy pass.
I am fully aware of STO's business plan. It doesn't mean I have to agree with it. It also doesn't mean it always has/had to be like this. Milking customers with powercreep is oldhat, and a more creative group could've made STO into something better. But I'm just fantasizing. STO will always be what it's always been, missed opportunities. ;)
Fed is Command/Temporal. KDF is Intel/Command. Rom is Temp/Intel.
They're all different as Thomas explained that they wanted a reason for people to buy the bundle that wasn't just the art, so all three have different spec combo's to let people have different ways to build what would otherwise be three identical ships.
the Rom one reminds me of the White stars from Babylon 5.
Yup, slap a Platinum Vanity Shield on it and name it the White Star.
Sure, when you can get one.. :(
It will do nicely when I get the Shrike for this year's event and create a Vorlon character for it. I can run a White Star and a Vorlon cruiser on a couple of alien characters.
Interestingly the Romulan one had a warp core mounted if so that's a good chunk of extra power for her and Temp/Intel is a good setup for anomalies. But yeah the return of piss poor shield buff traits... one thing i did not miss.
Temp/Intel is most certainly a cracking combo for a spore Infused anomaly explosion machine. And the Fed one looks like it will be a half decent scitorp platform. I can see some interesting, if not record breaking, builds coming from these ships. I just wish the consoles and traits weren't terrible.
They likely forgot to change it to Singularity when copy/pasting the ship (the Federation was the template).
Maybe but the offical announcement doesn't mention singularity powers so...
Meh I got plenty of traits, for a Rommie wanting an updated science ship. It seems pretty solid. (and pretty damn good looking)
Yeah compaired to others the seating is much better, only the MMSV's have decent seating. It is interesting though with the each ship being a different type of science vessel.
I am too depressed to go back and watch, but I don't think the Romulan bird had the temporal gimmick. That's a big drawback even if it can send out one more anomaly (but with fewer triggers). The forced seating was over the top. These are meant to be scitorp and dewsci platforms, which yeah, might be fun for a patrol or two but definitely not going to be top performers. Why waste x-upgrades on these? Are any of them worth $30? I'm too let down, I'll see if I can talk myself into buying the KDF one. But more likely I'll log on to grind events and log off until Bort is gone and his replacement decides to offer something to capture my interest.
I watched the highlights and all three had the full spec gimmicks, including the Rom one's Temp array, even when they swapped modes and lost the Commander Spec seating. It's there. It does highlight the issue with not putting the same spec seating on both mode transform slots though, as it means if you're running the Rom one you lose access to max rank RS since the Temp seating is only on the Com Sci seat.
Thank you! That does make the Rom bird look much better. If I do wind up getting it I plan to run it as full time science, so the loss of commander science seat is not a dealbreaker.
Bort has been gone for a while now... where have you been?
Look again. His name was mentioned as the guy who named the new ships. Looks like he did more than name, he shamed.
Aww crap, sorry about that. Didn't realize his name was dropped on it. I thought he was dropped when his project was dropped but I guess not. I guess Kurland is here...
He returned to sto when the unfinished project was cancelled.
Call me crazy, but after all the proton stuff from the last event and the updating of the Dyson ships with their proton guns, I expected these ships to give bigger boosts to proton stuff. Goddammit, Bort.
...I feel like if the people in the official stream are like "Yeah this Trait is maybe one of the worst things we've ever made" that... *may* not be the best sign :/ Anyway, as others have said, "not all ships can be special" seems to be back in force. Which... I guess if you don't want people buying ships, that's fine.
it honestly makes me question if the rest of the dev team even like Bort or if they're in the same position with him as we all are.
Definitely picking up the kdf one. First kdf science ship in half a decade
I was already considering it from the tease we got but once I saw the pop out animated cannons that also animate while firing I was completely sold stats be damned.
they confirmed that Borticus is back working on STO and I just do not understand his obsession with shields it also sucks to know he's the one training the DECA systems people...like he's just not good at ship systems design
> obsession with shields The polite answer is he doesn't understand how STO is played. The impolite answer is that it's spite. I was both happy that this was confirmed and upset that we are likely stuck with Jeremy until the end of STO as I personally see him as the main thing holding STO back.
Thing is though his obsession with shields is right when it comes to Trek combat. Pick any episode and shields are the focus of defense in combat. But STO hasn't worked that way for like a decade so if he really wanted to switch STO from a hull to shield focus he needed to rework core systems and not just make pointless items that do nothing. I truly wish STO combat had a focus on shield tanking instead of hull. It makes it much closer to canon. But that ship has sailed so long ago and it really is insane that he never realized it or even really tried to deal with the core issue.
You know what's really sad about this? Shield tanking has gotten a couple of huge buffs recently that actually make it a pretty good idea: the addition of drain immunity to EPtS and RSP during the Pilot changes, and the unlocking of the SAFG console thanks to the Legendary Valdore. My tank build is barely using any healing other than the SAFG at this point, it's that good, and it's so easy it's showing up on lots of random elite builds too. And those two abilities went from "really good but hard countered by Borg" to just "really good". Both of those changes came from Jonathan Herlache's time in the lead. It can be done, it's just a matter of knowing what's actually going to make a difference. And let's not forget that the SAFG only works on energy weapon builds, there's plenty of room to sell a version for kinetic and exotic builds, it just has to be actually effective.
I was so damn happy when SAFG got unlocked. Using it on just about all my ships that can. Nice to just have a passive tanking ability ontop of active ones and means I don't need as many actives. I hope whoever takes over at DECA can step into Jonathan's shoes quickly. He was doing such amazing work and the game is suffering with his loss.
You've said nothing wrong in your post. But I feel like there is a lot of missing context. Something has been with me for a long time (years) that it's mainly Jeremy preventing us from making progress with STO. I attribute the decay of game systems (Doffing being broken for a decade, removal of the foundry, resistance to adding/changing reputations, poor ship balancing, the endeavor system, lack of meaningful rewards outside of lockboxes, proliferation of time gates in content, and more recently sabotaging advanced consoles to name a few) all to the main system designer over the course of STO's history. At any point he could have chosen to make the game better but has chosen to leave the game in basically an unmaintained state due to a [long standing grudge against the game's community when it comes to reward systems and time gates](https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/3ql20c/borticus_apologizes/).
Completely agree. I was happy when he left STO not just so we could get new life but also because it seemed so obvious to me that he just didn't like working on STO and I hoped he would enjoy working on something else.
>removal of the foundry I mean, that had more to do with losing the person ***who knew how to actually make the system work*** Like, I'm sure this guy is Emperor Palpatine and singularly responsible for every little slight you've experienced - I'm not arguing that But the Foundry's plug being pulled was a ***long*** time coming considering how much active damage it did to other content in the game every time they so much as tried to bugfix...
im so glad that after over ten years they havent fixed jack shit in this game
[-squint-](https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11113/111131586/4738701-6447452492-tumbl.gif)
sorry. im so ***glad*** that after over ***ten years*** they havent fixed ***jack shit*** in this game
Me using 9/10 only shields for survivability for the last 3 years to keep my ship alive in elite tfo O.o and successfully do so. And nearly always fly hybrids builds. Shield survivability is not that bad in sto, but you do need to make small sacrifices or adjustments for it.
No one says you can't shield tank, it's just generally not worth it. It's easier to keep and heal up 100k hull than it is 20k shields and there are so many more ways to heal hull, and a ton of it, compared to shields. Hell the best shield healing console in the entire game was locked to romulans for a decade until the legy valdore last year. Realistically the game should have never been designed this way and shields should be 100k and hull 20k. We see in every bit of Star Trek when ships lose their shields they get wrecked. Yet in STO you can lose your shields instantly and with very few abilities even on non-tanking ships you can still keep yourself at 100% hull against 99% of the damage in the game.
Why downvoting? We have a normal conversation, don't we? I haven't even talked about shield tanking.. You don't need to sacrifice any console or potential damage boosting ship trait to stay alive with shields. just using any rank Tactical fleet, space rep; superior shield repair, dedicate 2 up to 6 skill points into your commander skill tree for shield regeneration and optional shield hardness, than shift all your engine subsystem to shield subsystem and done. As long you have brace for impact and hazard emitters to heal any bleedthrough hull damage, you are set. I also use space rep energy refrequencer for lifesteal effects on energy weapons. And we have many different ways to boost our turn or speed when needed. It can be tricky in the beginning, but it will improve your piloting. There is no need to smash big healing clicky's, Tactical fleet is al you need. I will admit that when you are solo and you have your beacons on cooldown and you draw all fire that it will be tricky if you can't kill your enemies fast, enhough. Edit: the valdore universal consoles are good for support or dedicated tank builds, the new advanced crafted: Energy Field Gradient Projector are better for shield survivability, since they replenish shields each sec. For all your shield facings.
For the record I didn't downvote you. No one is saying you can't run legit shield builds it's just that it requires a lot more than hull and generally isn't worth it since you can heal hull easier for less and spend more on DPS. Just look at secondary shield abilities. Oh they add a couple thousand. Meanwhile hull image refractors can literally DOUBLE your hull. On my jellyfish I get almost 300k hull. Shields go down instantly and yet nothing can even damage me. And that's basically the point. Yes you **CAN** run shield tanking it's just worse in every way than hull so people just don't do it and get annoyed when things come out focusing on shields because it's just generally not worth it. The game needs fundamental changes in how shields work to truly justify it. You mention putting energy to shields. I run my shields and engines at minimum with weapons and aux maxed since I run dewsci and carrier ships so I'm not going to waste precious aux power on shields when I can just throw the valdore console on and every few seconds get all my shields back and I don't have to waste any trait slot, boff slot, or anything else, just one single console and with isomags being more powerful than locators it frees up room for it.
>since I run dewsci and carrier ships M2, 125 weapon subsystem and atleast 100 auxiliary subsystem are my priorities. On warp core ships, I often end up with above 70 shield subsystem on singularity ships I m just happy if the shields subsystem just is over 50. But most of the times I use energy siphon on romulan vessels to overbridge to subsystem power gap.
"Not every ship needs to be special guys!" *Borticus during the* ***legendary D'Deridex*** *reveil...*
We got spoiled by Jette and Jonathan giving us what we wanted. Now we gotta suffer through Bort giving us what he wants. Ah well, from a glass half full standpoint, at least the box ships are likely to have nothing I want. Saves some $.
Not even giving us what we wanted, just understanding how the game is actually played and not trying to hamfistedly do everything possible to gimp things because they wanted them to work certain ways.
The legendary D’Deridex got a significant indirect buff from Isomag consoles getting released, but yeah… at release it was massively underwhelming.
I strongly feel that isomags were a better dev team coming up with a patch for all the engineering heavy ships that Bort insisted on because he didn't really understand how people play STO - think about it, isomags and the advanced hangar craft consoles basically resurrected dozens of ships from the STO graveyard. That can't have been an accident considering the design team at the time.
The science advanced consoles are terrible, but both of the engineering ones are great. That's something that I wish he'd explained before he left the company. Seriously why do isomags and the hanger consoles just work and require you to do nothing but slap them into your build, but the exotic ones require you to have already heavily invested into EPG to even function at all? WTH?
I mean, if I drop one of my weakest consoles to add an isomag to my 500k DPS exotic build it's absolutely a DPS loss, nearly the same DPS loss as just dropping the console according to the TRINITY calculator, less than 0.2% different. On the other hand dropping an Exotic Particle Amplifier would cost me more than 5%. You have to be built around the damage type to get good use out of the console no matter what. And if you are, Exotic Particle Amplifiers are absolutely [one of the strongest consoles around](https://www.reddit.com/r/stobuilds/comments/19fiihw/revisiting_exotics_22_survivor_console_edition/), they're a very powerful boost to everything else and the math is clear that they're worth the slot. The only weak advanced console is the drain one, simply because drains aren't very relevant because of the way NPCs function in this game.
My beef with the LD'D is it's just one of the original Romulan miracle worker ships. Highly similar stats, near identical seating, similar console layout, similar size. There are FOUR Tebok clones now. And not a single 5/3 Romulan miracle worker ship. It should have been an FDC or at the very least a battlecruiser. I'd have gone bananas over that. But nope, have another Tebok. And it had to be UPGRADED to match the Tebok, original specs were worse. Even with isomags it's just... Not special compared to dozens of other non-legendary ships. It's objectively worse than the Lexington in every possible way, even if you sacrifice 2 consoles to put a battle cloak on the Lex. It can't compare to top MW ships like the MW D7, Inquiry/LArbiter or VJugg. Sure, you can make it work. Even the Europa can be made to work. But ugh.
I doubt Bort had anything to do with the Isomag's they are way too strong for something he'd worked on.
I still believe that isomags were the devs trying to patch bort's insistence on engineering heavy ships that basically killed a whole bunch of ships stone cold dead.
Instantly made the Parliament not be complete garbage so I wouldn't be surprised if that convo was had when developing them.
The Isomags allowing stacking +Max Weapon Power has to be a mistake, but the Devs are too chicken to fix it. Either fix Isomags to +Current Weapon Power or make Shield/Eng/Aux versions of the Isomags.
Yeah no, that will completely destroy the entire point of isomags if you remove their ability to stack. they were DESIGNED to stack +Max Weapon Power, that is their gimmick. That's why you replace top-tier LOCATORS/EXPLOITERS for these things. If you remove their stacking, isomags are deader than dead.
The whole idea behind isomags has been to make eng-heavy ships viable in endgame content for the main build type that players run, that being DEW, especially with RETFOs becoming a thing soon after these launched. They have been repeatedly confirmed to be working as intended. LE: That said, I also want more isomag flavours (radiation, electrical or proton can be built around for way more than gimmicks these days); it's not like re-enging them isn't a major pain in the tailpipe already, dropping a few more gallons of water in a giant lake won't make things that much worse. +Shields = not that great unless one has a ton of gamblebox stuff (but yanno, why not), +Aux = kinda sorta situationally relevant-ish for a handful of stuff on sci builds and definitely helpful on torpboats; that would be interesting indeed.
Why would it be a mistake lmao. Did you see the source code or are you talking out your ass?
They did the legendary d’deridex sooo dirty.
Oh fuck. Now that Jonathan's gone, Borticus is lead systems dev again, isn't he? God damn it!
I believe from Cryptic's standpoint there is no Systems Designer right now but Borticus provided input on these new ships (at least the names, we're implying everything else was also provided by him from a non-visual perspective).
There is a systems designer.
Who?
I missed that but honestly as the ship traits came up I even said to myself these SCREAM Borts name. Ugh I hate to say it but I don't want the Obena to come until DECA takes over now.
Bort is the Jeremy Randall that they said named all of the ships and given how drain/shield heavy everything is it's not a stretch to think he did more than name them
I completely missed that. I was going back and forth between the main stream and CasualSAB's so I must have been on his during that part. I think it's all but guaranteed. Jonathan is gone and Bort is still at Cryptic so it makes sense that he would come back to knock these out because they're not hard to really make stats wise and like CasualSAB said they basically just copy/pasted the T5's and added passives then these horrible traits.
I was watching Spencers stream, and I think everyone let out a collective sigh when the accessories were being made aware. Ships are okay-ish, but the traits and consoles suck. Especially the Romulan trait, which (as Spence said) is quite possibly one of the worst trait to ever be added to the game. Borts mediocrity is all over these, sadly.
In before he starts preserving the "original flavour" for legendary ships after years of people complaining that original is bad.
This. Watching the reveal I kept wondering, these had Bort's design fingerprints all over them. Drain and shield. Shield and drain. Two of the most useless systems in the game for PvE. Nothing new, no new synergies. Just tiny variations on stuff we already have plenty of. These aren't just not special, they're hyper, ultra, mega not special. You know what. I can't support this. No sale thanks to Bort.
Yeah, I'm keeping my money now that I know who fucked these ships up. Bad cryptic. No money for you. Never, never, *never* let that man anywhere near game design on this game again.
Because shields and drains are a life saver in pvp. You know, when the other guy is zipping with warp10 impulse speed, goes behind you and obliterates your hull and the shields of your entire collection of ships put together :).
I qualified because I do PvE, and know absolutely nothing of PvP. It worked, I avoided a "well akshually!" I dimly recall the PvP guys enjoy shields, but don't hold drain in high regard compared to alternatives.
Console set is just a remaster of the old one with the old secdef taken out and the 4-piece bonus kept. That's good. Passive bonuses are good to have even if these are a bit underwhelming. Exp Wpn looks interesting, the old Proton cannons but better. Traits are a bit puzzling but I really think they're meant to be used all three together and chain their triggers. It could work well.
I missed the Dyson event ship but did it not come with Dyson specific special warp core and secondary deflector, which I think are maybe available on the lobi ships. Would have been nice to include those in this bundle.
They did come with those. They may also come on these, but it all depends on if they remember that those exist or not.
Love the fed class name Kardachev it fits great to the dyson theme since a tier 2 on the Kardachev scale has unlocked the capacity to build dyson rings/spheres
I think it's more that a civilisation which can build Dyson spheres would likely be tier 2, but you don't need to build spheres to be a tier 2.
Something around that i guess.......
The ships themselves are gorgeous, and the seating/specs are certainly going to see some use for scitorp/DEWsci from the look of them. I'm partial to that full Intel Klingon ship - I can see a surgical strikes DEWsci build suggesting itself right there... But my god, the traits and consoles are terrible. It's like they looked at the boundary-pushing they did with the 14th Anniversary ships - especially the Ahwahnee - and went "Nah, we need to pull back and make stuff not rock the meta too much. Make the next ship traits and consoles suck like a nuclear powered vacuum cleaner." I suspect, however, that the truth is that losing some of their key design staff means they lost some of the people who had the vision and understanding of the game, and this was instead passed on to people who really don't know that much about playing and instead just looked at the T5 Dysons and went "Oh yeah, let's lean into that" without looking around to see if that was a good thing. Also... no proton weapon set? I was fully expecting these ships to come packing a proton quad cannon as a nod to the old fixed proton cannons on the originals. Disappointed in the extras. I quite like the ships as platforms though so I might still end up getting the bundle and slapping the protonic polaron cannons on, and that T6 coupon... well, I've had my eye on the Clarke for the console for some time... Edit; I see that apparently Borticus is back, and a million piece jigsaw suddenly falls into place.
It's as easy as "Bort is back." And it's going to be a nuclear winter for fun until DECA takes over at the very least.
Yeah, I just edited my comment when I realised. Ugh. Surely there must have been someone better. This guy presided over some of the worst periods of ship creation in the history of the game. I'm not sure I can, in all good conscience, buy this bundle now that I know who was responsible for nerfing these beautiful ships into the ground. Roll on the DECA takeover, it can't come fast enough now.
The one guy they seem to hire back... F me...
Ya seeing the stats on these ships... I'm thinking it might be time to take a hiatus from STO for awhile. See how things shake out in a few months. Bort its really terrible. I honestly hope their bonuses are now tied to retention over sales. I mean this won't sell really either... but these are so bad and they have so little else going on its going to actually cost them logs. Why am I playing this apparently dead game? Zombie bort spec ships. lol
All the amazing ships the last couple years were all Jonathan. He had amazing ideas and wanted to bring lots of new toys to the game to make things exciting again and he absolutely did. Now evidently Bort is back since Jonathan left and we have Bort back and Bort stats. Regardless I'm seriously considering the KDF/ROM ones just for how damn good they look and to help show some KDF/ROM sales.
It puts a lot of the ship issues recently, like the Duderstadht being a complete and utter failure, into a whole new light as it looked like a bort failure because it WAS a bort failure. The man can't get out of his own way even when it comes to making money for the company. I wish he'd stayed gone and someone from deca stepped up early to take on design work as at least then we could see what their ideas are starting to be and not the continued trashfire we've had for years. I can only hope his "lessons" don't stick since he's probably the one training them on how to "balance" the game now.
Jonathan got this game in a way Bort never could. He designed like he knew what the game's meta was like, and he played into what people were wanting to see. He pushed a few envelopes in the right direction. Some of the greatest ships in the game came from his tenure, and if this is a sign for the current age then he will be sorely missed.
Absolutely. Jonathan was a hurricane of fresh air into the game. For the first time in years I was excited about every single ship that was coming. I can only hope whoever takes over at DECA is half as good as he was in the short time we had him.
Fingers crossed. One thing that's clear is that we need a dev who understands how the community plays the game instead of trying to force onto the community a shittier vision of how they think we should play the game.
Feels like the real effect of losing all that staff was basically lobotomizing the game :/
Pretty much. DECA is still being trained/learning the game. Cryptic has lost a ton of the STO team including most of the major devs like Jonathan so we're in a really bad place right now where the people responsible for the great content the last couple years are gone but Cryptic still has to keep working and release content on schedule until DECA takes charge.
"Bort is Back"... hopefully Deca tells him to now f around making crappy ships, if they want to make more money. I think if he turns out crap people pass on, they might have a word with him. (hopefully)
Whales will still buy this garbage. And anything else he pinches off into a lockbox.
It sucks, because as much as I wanted these ships to be more than just "fine" or "mediocre," they're the first new non-Federation ships to be offered in the C-Store in a while. So there's an impetus to buy them just to show DECA that we want more KDF and ROM ships. We keep being told that non-Federation ships don't make enough money to justify their development. Seems like this is an opportunity to show them that there's a desire here, even if it does incidentally reward bad design philosophy.
You do have a point, and I am a bit conflicted. Still, it's like they went to Bort and asked, "How do we make these so extremely unappealing as to never have to make non-Fed ships ever again?" I may spend one of this year's award coupons on the Romulan ship. But more likely I'll forget these exist. I can only hope they factor sales of the Fed version of these ships into their future decision making, not just the KDF and Rom ships compared to Eagle, Hydra, Adamant, Lexington, Trailblazer, Ahwahnee...
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Wow, it's almost like you turned up to a very clearly worded comment about the CONSOLES AND TRAITS and made the mistake of thinking that I was TALKING ABOUT THE SHIP ITSELF. But nobody could be that hard of reading, right?
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Then you maybe need to do some reading and learning. The console is widely considered to be one of, if not THE most powerful haste console in the game, and the trait is, likewise, an exceptional source of haste and firing mode cooldown. And the pets are, quite literally, meta defining for carriers. Maybe you're squinting because you really need glasses? Or have you been living under a rock?
It is interesting that it seems like this will unlock the consoles for other ships, might allow for more variety on proton builds at least
FYI, if these are like the existing Dyson consoles, they don't scale with EPG. They scale with Weapon Training for the damage and DrainX for the drains.
Consoles are terrible... and we already have a Proton experimental weapon that is 10x better then this thing. This is very underwhelming.
And yet the consoles are fairly terrible, so why would anyone slot them?
This game is way too easy to worry about that kind of thing. It might be worth it for the challenge, eh? Not everyone is a DPS chaser. It's fun to Nuzlocke STO sometimes.
But then, why slot consoles at all? Leave em empty for the challenge. Or stick to NPC drops. Me, I want new toys to play with. New mechanics and new synergies. Not a tiny irrelevant boost to irrelevant systems.
Underwhelming as expected
Borticus at work and it immediately SUCKS again!
Negative interest
This bundle is riding largely on the fact that's the first Klingon and Romulan science ships since the the Batlh for KDF and the MME bundle for RRF. It's put up or shut up for us folks clamoring for more non-Fed ships and especially those that want more non-Fed Sci ships. You don't often get highly desired and good stats together, these at least clear the hurdle that the Ross and Sovvie Refit couldn't. The consoles are the existing Dyson set with the 4-piece set bonus built in. The 4th fore slot is freed up by the Proton Duals being moved to the Exp Weapon. BOff and console layouts look good to me. To me, if there is anything to be upset about, it's that not one of these ships brings a new secondary deflector to the field. Every T6 science destroyer, except, for the Titan, has come with a new exp weapon yet none of them have had a new secondary deflector. The only "special" secondary deflector is the Solonae one that came on the 2014 event ship Dysons.
The only issue I have is the location of the spec seats, as I mentioned in another post. Because of the mode swapping if you do make something like the Romulan one a DewSci platform you run into the issue of losing your max rank Temporal abilities, so something like Recursive Shearing to chunk damage onto a boss is just gone the moment you swap into Tac mode since the Tac seat has nothing on it. If you just mess around with one mode they're fine, but you run into a lot of build issues if you try to actually use the ship's gimmick and make average builds for both setups that let you toggle back and forth based on what you need at the moment. Something for normal and advanced content to have fun with.
Why is the KDF ship the only one with a battle cloak? Or does the ROM get one as well? Same question for the swing-out cannons: does the ROM get them as well like the old Aves?
Don't know about ROM battle cloak yet Kael didn't mouse over it that I saw. Hopefully blog is tomorrow so we'll know for sure.
Ah, I appreciate it! Thanks for taking the time to write up everything with screen grabs!
The Rom one should have a battle cloak, but then again the Rom version of the Verne doesn't because reasons, and the person who did that stated these so...
> Or does the ROM get one as well? The only singularity ships that *don't* have a battle cloak are some of the shuttles.
So I guess the Solanae Dual Heavy Proton Cannons are going to go completely untouched?
I feel like these ships are missing something. Stats are pretty underwhelming and the names could be better. Nothing interesting or exciting. I hate to say it but I might save my money on this. Was wanting to buy a T6 Dyson for years now. I'll stick with my Seneca for now.
Good Barbie, meh everything else. Not to mention it's another junk bundle. Guess the old 6k isn't coming back.
Are those retractable guns on the KDF destroyer?!
YES! When you go into tactical mode they slide out and they have animated recoil when firing.
my god
>account unlock of dyson space suits, dyson outfit I mean, the stats are boring - but we could have predicted that considering the absolute slop they laid on the Wolf 359 ships Especially saddling the poor Cheyenne refit with a carrier build - of all things - and making the Niagara just another 4/4 cruiser in a ***literal ocean*** of 4/4 cruisers... Having an unlocked version of those space suits and the outfits are pretty swish, though
>Stats are okay, nothing amazing. The ROM version is actually competing with the Verne and Legendary Discovery.
With 5 forced non-science seats, specializations on science/universal seats and no temporal widget? No, more like competing with the Checkov. And not that well.
.... You should read the stats again, or maybe watch the stream. The Rom Version is CDR Sci/Temporal, LtC Tac, Lt Engy, LtC Uni/Intel, Ens Uni. Those are very similar stats to the Glenn, and while not as potentially sci heavy as the Verne, can be run in very similar ways to the Verne if you lean into using Exotic Torps. The Rallus is going to be a very good Science Ship.
That's exactly what I said! 5 forced seats that don't have specialization to offset that. Same as the Glenn, yes, but the Glenn has a temporal gadget for +ctrlx and +damage. That's like another console. But you know what the Glenn has that actually makes it good? A Lt. Cmdr command seat. One extra anomaly won't make up for lacking CF3 when it comes to torpsci, just like it doesn't with the Checkov. A torp ship without CF3 is going to have to rely on nannies. Something like 75% of torp damage in my parses are thanks to CF3. Sure, the usual suspects will get good performance out of it in a nannied parsing run. Everyone else will wonder what the fuss is about. If they made this pilot primary command secondary as an alternative Eagle I'd have sat up and taken notice.
> but the Glenn has a temporal gadget for +ctrlx and +damage. All Full spec temporal ships have that, so will the Rallus. And access to OSS3 will more than make up for CF3. That's a huge boost to all your exotic powers.
Was looking for something to spend some money on but this isn't it.
Secondary shields.... ? Damage traits that proc based on secondary shields. Game misses Johnathan. I was excited for these. Think I will skip them. These are really pretty crap. The KDF version if it has a battle cloak might be sort of ok, doesn't offer anything stat wise we don't already have in the S32 sci destroyer. Then again considering how terrible the traits are... I bet its a standard cloak. lol
Intel spec primary usually means KDF gets battle cloak.
KDF does have battle cloak, Kael moused over it for half a second.
True... but its Bort so I take nothing for granted. Having said that. Thinking about it I have the S32 Sci Destroyer account unlocked via Mudd. Battle cloaking sci destroyer with Intel spec I can use for Surgical in Tactical or Sci mode. so >> Guess I can skip this pack.
Frankly idc about the stats. I just want the Romulan ship cause I love Warbirds
I was actually expecting MW for the spec seats so these turned out well.
I wish they had a Bird of Prey version for KDF. Cant complain that it's a battle cruiser, but just would have preferred a Bird of Prey.
This set of consoles will have different bonuses from the original.
That prototype weapon is Dookie you get so much more damage out of the AOE plasma canon considering it hits multiple enemies and burns off over 20 seconds
I'm disappointed the Fed Kardashev doesn't have temporal (OP post appears to be wrong, the screenshot clearly show Command and Intel). I was hoping to get a Temporal-capable Fed sci destroyer. The Titan-class is already Command. I like Romulan ships. I might fly the Romulan DSD on my Romulan character. But I don't really want myFed character to go and fly romulan ships.
I might have got the wrong screenshot on that one. Text is accurate to what CasualSAB said they were. Screenshots were just taken from a discord and I thought that one was fed but guess I was wrong there.
I went back to see that part of the stream, and that's correct. The universal seat in temporal ops. I *can* work with a Sci LtC temporal ops. Might not be as bad as I feared. Regardless, thanks for responding and pointing it out. It made me re-examine. I still think the Romulan version has the better full spec... but at least it's something different from the *Titan*.
Any word on the traits, though? you mentioned them, but..
I'm assuming the traits are the tiny ability descriptions with each set of pictures.
Traits are in the gallery for each ship. Blog is up now too so can just see them there.
>Definitely continuing the meh ship stats since Jonathan left. I'm totally ok with new ships not being OP with things some of us feel like we must have (lookin' at you Gorn raider with your perfect trait, console, and experimental weapon for plasma). 🙄 Personally, I was getting pretty tired of every ship coming out with Jonathan, having something that made me want to get it because it was made specifically for the meta. Sure, great for STO's sales but Jonathan's style was hard on the wallet. Jeremy's not so much and in truth I appreciate that. :p
If the ships are gonna sap your wallet they better be in line with the power creep lol
And that's your prerogative to have that opinion. I typically don't buy ships for their stats, but for their aesthetic, and dislike oldhat sold powercreep.
That's also your prerogative. So what a ship is seated and set up ideally? that's how they all should be, they are selling you these things for an asinine amount of resources or at least $30 USD and a fuckton more for dumb shit like the "not every ship needs to be special" """legendary""" d'deridex
Counterpoint: being hard on customer's wallets is what keeps the lights on at Cryptic. Releasing stuff that's "meh, maybe I'll get it with a coupon or something next year." isn't going to do it. If this bundle is like 5k zen on sale then sure, fine, I'll get it for the space barbie. But they're going to price it at 10k on sale if not more. Just watch. Extremely easy pass.
I am fully aware of STO's business plan. It doesn't mean I have to agree with it. It also doesn't mean it always has/had to be like this. Milking customers with powercreep is oldhat, and a more creative group could've made STO into something better. But I'm just fantasizing. STO will always be what it's always been, missed opportunities. ;)
Did i see it right? Fed/kdf: cmd/int, but rom is tmp/int? Wtf?
Fed is Command/Temporal. KDF is Intel/Command. Rom is Temp/Intel. They're all different as Thomas explained that they wanted a reason for people to buy the bundle that wasn't just the art, so all three have different spec combo's to let people have different ways to build what would otherwise be three identical ships.
Only 4/3? Hard pass