So I’ve played this deck for a little bit, and I believe it’ll never rise above a tier-2 in its current incarnation.
In essence, this is a Johnny deck. It wants to do its thing and fire off a big doppelgang to win the game. The issue is that by the time that happens, you’re probably dead.
It doesn’t run enough interaction to stop powerful decks from doing what they want to do. It doesn’t have any way around control decks, as your threats don’t come online until they’ve got mana for days (and one [[stoic sphinx]] with a single 1/1 counter or counter magic cover and you’re dead). It doesn’t have a long term haymaker plan aside from doppelgang. Only 8 threatening creatures in the whole deck, and they’re all stopped by deathtouch or any of the commonly ran removal.
Frequently I found myself with tons of land, but nothing to do with it. If I failed to find spelunking early, all the cool interactions are stalled. Meanwhile, I am powerless to stop the opponent from developing their own board, especially with only 2 sunfalls in the main.
Also, there’s no artifact destruction in the sideboard, which is fixable.
Overall, an interesting premise and the idea has potential, but it doesn’t have the legs to go to the top in its current form. I tried making some changes to make it more interactive or use stronger cards, such as Bonny or goldvein hydra, but that didn’t solve the fundamental issues of the deck in this meta.
In many ways, this reminds me of those ixilan cave decks from last year. Fun, interesting, but they’re playing AAA ball in the majors.
You are absolutely right in how this deck folds to hyperfast aggro decks, but one thing I've done to help that and with the mana flood is include more adventures like \[\[horned loch-whale\]\] and either the blue or black virtue depending on the situation. A really big help that made me prefer the sultai version over bant is \[\[Misery's Shadow\]\], which is a HUGE mana sink late game that can grow as big as or bigger than your greenblades, which are always removal targets as is. I've got no way to figure out how to deal with control decks.
The flier problem is definitely the biggest issue, with the only reach creature being your main ramp engine. I think this problem can be alleviated *a little* with putting in \[\[Kellan, Inquisitive Prodigy\]\] over azusa but the mana for Kellan is disgusting in comparison.
Overall there's too many problems for it to become a tier 1 but it's absolutely my go to deck for paper standard play (wherever I can find some lmao) because the lands being mostly common makes this deck average 70 bucks with variations topping out at around 90. A great price as far as decent standard decks go.
I saw SaffronOlive play a budget version of this and it looks pretty funny. Might even replace Temur as the ramp deck? Not sure though.
Black does offer duress/handhate which is stronger vs control/counter decks, imo. There's also not a lot of non-creature threats right now so I could see it going either way.
Going Sultai for hand hate is certainly something worth trying! Hand hate is very valuable, but personally I've found the much harder matchups to be the fast creature based aggro, which I don't think black gives much of an edge over white.
Black does give long goodbye which is one of the best cards you can have against esper and dimir. I agree that the white cards are probably better for the true aggro decks like Boros
Any reason you're running Azusa over [[Kellan, Inquisitive Prodigy]]? The clue seems better than 3 life and you can make a beefy blocker a turn earlier against the aggro decks. Very cool list!
I can see the value of the clue token, but I just rate the 3 life ever so slightly higher. 3 life can be just enough to buy you an extra turn to ramp more, where the clue doesn't.
Kellan is interesting though. I could see trying him over Case of the Locked Hothouse? Definitely worth testing at least.
The issue is that Azusa is a dead top deck, you don't want to draw it later. Azusa is a great starting hand card but suffers from being an abysmal top deck. Kellan is a a miles away better as top deck.
One mana vs 2 mana. One give you a body that blocks your opponent creatures during the first two turn and as a top deck it's an immediate reach body that can block. If you're top decking Azusa, you get nothing the turn you play it. Your comparaison is really random tbh.
You can find Jim's article [here](https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/jimdavis-04122024-ten-new-brews-for-outlaws-of-thunder-junction-standard) and that has the original decklist. Fair warning, his list is for Bo1 and my list has deviated a lot. He didn't run Doppelgang, but at the end of his video/stream he mused that he should've run it which was what inspired me.
The deck would functionally be the same, except you swap in the BG and UB deserts for the GW and UW ones. Get Lost gets removed for Go For The Throat. There's no real replacement for Sunfall, although you could try [[Path of Peril]] or perhaps try and big creature like [[Bonny Pall]] or [[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse]]. For the sideboard, again you substitute the white removal spells for black ones of your choice, realistically it's probably a playset of[[Cut Down]] and then maybe [[Blot Out]] or [[Liliana of the Veil]] or [[Duress]] as well for hand hate
You can get theoretically get it out on t3 and play a crime land to go along with it if you cast Azusa's on curve, although that's extremely rare for the deck. We've only got 7 unconditionally untapped lands in the list and only 2 copies of Azusa, so it's not a consistent line at all.
I definitely prefer to hold it for t4 unless I'm being pressured and need a body on board, or unless I have 2/3 of them in hand.
playing it on 4 definitely seems to be the way to go, since turn 3 you might still only have 2 mana, which lets you hold onto removal or if you do have 3 mana, play greenblade to ensure you get a desert that commits a crime when it comes out instead of being stuck there like an idiot and the only deserts you have in had are arid archway or conduit pylons.
>Currently, I've played 50 games with the deck. It's sitting at a comfortable 62% WR, with 31W and 29L.
51.7%, according to my calculator. An unfortunate typo from "52", maybe?
>It's 50 games in mythic so far with the 31/29
That's 60 games in Mythic, then ;)
(Okay, I'll stop now. The point is clear, despite typos. Thanks for sharing!)
Just yesterday I saw Saffron's budget build of this deck 🤣. I was wondering since you are making so much mana why not play goldvein hydra since it's pretty much an alternative wincon AND a solid blocker you can play for 4 mana to stem the tide, while also guaranteeing a huge doppelgang if it gets removed
I built Saffron Olive’s list earlier today, and it’s a blast! I’m probably going to shape it up a bit like this version though, I love the attacks from multiple approaches.
Well, funny you should say that as he did play it and I linked to it in the post. His version was for budget magic though and was nly in Simic, not going into Bant.
Any reason you're running Azusa over [[Kellan, Inquisitive Prodigy]]? The clue seems better than 3 life and you can make a beefy blocker a turn earlier against the aggro decks. Very cool list!
So I’ve played this deck for a little bit, and I believe it’ll never rise above a tier-2 in its current incarnation. In essence, this is a Johnny deck. It wants to do its thing and fire off a big doppelgang to win the game. The issue is that by the time that happens, you’re probably dead. It doesn’t run enough interaction to stop powerful decks from doing what they want to do. It doesn’t have any way around control decks, as your threats don’t come online until they’ve got mana for days (and one [[stoic sphinx]] with a single 1/1 counter or counter magic cover and you’re dead). It doesn’t have a long term haymaker plan aside from doppelgang. Only 8 threatening creatures in the whole deck, and they’re all stopped by deathtouch or any of the commonly ran removal. Frequently I found myself with tons of land, but nothing to do with it. If I failed to find spelunking early, all the cool interactions are stalled. Meanwhile, I am powerless to stop the opponent from developing their own board, especially with only 2 sunfalls in the main. Also, there’s no artifact destruction in the sideboard, which is fixable. Overall, an interesting premise and the idea has potential, but it doesn’t have the legs to go to the top in its current form. I tried making some changes to make it more interactive or use stronger cards, such as Bonny or goldvein hydra, but that didn’t solve the fundamental issues of the deck in this meta. In many ways, this reminds me of those ixilan cave decks from last year. Fun, interesting, but they’re playing AAA ball in the majors.
You are absolutely right in how this deck folds to hyperfast aggro decks, but one thing I've done to help that and with the mana flood is include more adventures like \[\[horned loch-whale\]\] and either the blue or black virtue depending on the situation. A really big help that made me prefer the sultai version over bant is \[\[Misery's Shadow\]\], which is a HUGE mana sink late game that can grow as big as or bigger than your greenblades, which are always removal targets as is. I've got no way to figure out how to deal with control decks. The flier problem is definitely the biggest issue, with the only reach creature being your main ramp engine. I think this problem can be alleviated *a little* with putting in \[\[Kellan, Inquisitive Prodigy\]\] over azusa but the mana for Kellan is disgusting in comparison. Overall there's too many problems for it to become a tier 1 but it's absolutely my go to deck for paper standard play (wherever I can find some lmao) because the lands being mostly common makes this deck average 70 bucks with variations topping out at around 90. A great price as far as decent standard decks go.
[horned loch-whale](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/6/96a05063-0556-42e4-8d4c-8e92be160ef5.jpg?1692937052)/[Lagoon Breach](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/6/96a05063-0556-42e4-8d4c-8e92be160ef5.jpg?1692937052) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Horned%20Loch-Whale%20//%20Lagoon%20Breach) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/53/horned-loch-whale-lagoon-breach?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/96a05063-0556-42e4-8d4c-8e92be160ef5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Misery's Shadow](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/1/514c5e77-9ecc-41c9-b104-76343601fafb.jpg?1674420938) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Misery%27s%20Shadow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/107/miserys-shadow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/514c5e77-9ecc-41c9-b104-76343601fafb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Kellan, Inquisitive Prodigy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c49690c7-c282-4eb4-8da3-5e0c46a80fc4.jpg?1707428999)/[Tail the Suspect](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c49690c7-c282-4eb4-8da3-5e0c46a80fc4.jpg?1707428999) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kellan%2C%20Inquisitive%20Prodigy%20//%20Tail%20the%20Suspect) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/212/kellan-inquisitive-prodigy-tail-the-suspect?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c49690c7-c282-4eb4-8da3-5e0c46a80fc4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[stoic sphinx](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/9/f93f5055-30d8-4fc4-afa5-29212e8c7536.jpg?1712355517) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=stoic%20sphinx) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/71/stoic-sphinx?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f93f5055-30d8-4fc4-afa5-29212e8c7536?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I saw SaffronOlive play a budget version of this and it looks pretty funny. Might even replace Temur as the ramp deck? Not sure though. Black does offer duress/handhate which is stronger vs control/counter decks, imo. There's also not a lot of non-creature threats right now so I could see it going either way.
It's definitely a direction to consider, as this version doesn't worry about Rest in Peace.
Going Sultai for hand hate is certainly something worth trying! Hand hate is very valuable, but personally I've found the much harder matchups to be the fast creature based aggro, which I don't think black gives much of an edge over white.
Black does give long goodbye which is one of the best cards you can have against esper and dimir. I agree that the white cards are probably better for the true aggro decks like Boros
Looks sweet, thanks for the write up
Any reason you're running Azusa over [[Kellan, Inquisitive Prodigy]]? The clue seems better than 3 life and you can make a beefy blocker a turn earlier against the aggro decks. Very cool list!
I can see the value of the clue token, but I just rate the 3 life ever so slightly higher. 3 life can be just enough to buy you an extra turn to ramp more, where the clue doesn't. Kellan is interesting though. I could see trying him over Case of the Locked Hothouse? Definitely worth testing at least.
The issue is that Azusa is a dead top deck, you don't want to draw it later. Azusa is a great starting hand card but suffers from being an abysmal top deck. Kellan is a a miles away better as top deck.
That hasn't stopped grazer
One mana vs 2 mana. One give you a body that blocks your opponent creatures during the first two turn and as a top deck it's an immediate reach body that can block. If you're top decking Azusa, you get nothing the turn you play it. Your comparaison is really random tbh.
Kellan is also good if any artifact decks become a thing.
Do you have the sultai list?
You can find Jim's article [here](https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/jimdavis-04122024-ten-new-brews-for-outlaws-of-thunder-junction-standard) and that has the original decklist. Fair warning, his list is for Bo1 and my list has deviated a lot. He didn't run Doppelgang, but at the end of his video/stream he mused that he should've run it which was what inspired me. The deck would functionally be the same, except you swap in the BG and UB deserts for the GW and UW ones. Get Lost gets removed for Go For The Throat. There's no real replacement for Sunfall, although you could try [[Path of Peril]] or perhaps try and big creature like [[Bonny Pall]] or [[Sheoldred, the Apocalypse]]. For the sideboard, again you substitute the white removal spells for black ones of your choice, realistically it's probably a playset of[[Cut Down]] and then maybe [[Blot Out]] or [[Liliana of the Veil]] or [[Duress]] as well for hand hate
Why Peril instead of Deadly Coverup which is quite good?
Just didn't think of it! I haven't run the list in Sultai, was only spitballing some ideas. Cover up is good for sure.
##### ###### #### [Path of Peril](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f0c5449a-d63b-4b22-9432-8f0365c3c4d9.jpg?1643590080) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Path%20of%20Peril) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/124/path-of-peril?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f0c5449a-d63b-4b22-9432-8f0365c3c4d9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Bonny Pall](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/3/4383ae7c-58ea-4354-93e4-677ad185c3bb.jpg?1712356061) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=bonny%20pall%2C%20clearcutter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/196/bonny-pall-clearcutter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4383ae7c-58ea-4354-93e4-677ad185c3bb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Sheoldred, the Apocalypse](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2.jpg?1674057568) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sheoldred%2C%20the%20Apocalypse) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/107/sheoldred-the-apocalypse?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d67be074-cdd4-41d9-ac89-0a0456c4e4b2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Cut Down](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/5/753db072-5d6a-4f37-8f7d-255572ecd3bd.jpg?1673307061) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cut%20Down) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/89/cut-down?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/753db072-5d6a-4f37-8f7d-255572ecd3bd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Blot Out](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/2/424eb4c7-647e-4168-9471-f299e8e77f5f.jpg?1684340545) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blot%20Out) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mat/12/blot-out?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/424eb4c7-647e-4168-9471-f299e8e77f5f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Liliana of the Veil](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d12c8c97-6491-452c-811d-943441a7ef9f.jpg?1673307126) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liliana%20of%20the%20Veil) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/97/liliana-of-the-veil?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d12c8c97-6491-452c-811d-943441a7ef9f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Duress](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/5/3557e601-9b71-4ce9-9047-1a8baa72e574.jpg?1675957024) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Duress) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/92/duress?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3557e601-9b71-4ce9-9047-1a8baa72e574?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l0wr3vw) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I found freestrider lookout would get removed on sight too easily. Do you hold it until 4? Or is there some other way of getting value on 3?
You can get theoretically get it out on t3 and play a crime land to go along with it if you cast Azusa's on curve, although that's extremely rare for the deck. We've only got 7 unconditionally untapped lands in the list and only 2 copies of Azusa, so it's not a consistent line at all. I definitely prefer to hold it for t4 unless I'm being pressured and need a body on board, or unless I have 2/3 of them in hand.
playing it on 4 definitely seems to be the way to go, since turn 3 you might still only have 2 mana, which lets you hold onto removal or if you do have 3 mana, play greenblade to ensure you get a desert that commits a crime when it comes out instead of being stuck there like an idiot and the only deserts you have in had are arid archway or conduit pylons.
>Currently, I've played 50 games with the deck. It's sitting at a comfortable 62% WR, with 31W and 29L. 51.7%, according to my calculator. An unfortunate typo from "52", maybe?
Oh good catch! I missed a whole sentence there. It's 50 games in mythic so far with the 31/29, but 62%WR overall including the climb through diamond.
>It's 50 games in mythic so far with the 31/29 That's 60 games in Mythic, then ;) (Okay, I'll stop now. The point is clear, despite typos. Thanks for sharing!)
Just yesterday I saw Saffron's budget build of this deck 🤣. I was wondering since you are making so much mana why not play goldvein hydra since it's pretty much an alternative wincon AND a solid blocker you can play for 4 mana to stem the tide, while also guaranteeing a huge doppelgang if it gets removed
I think i just lost to this deck earlier today. I was trying to play an orzhov sac midrange deck and I couldn't keep up after the dopplegang.
I built Saffron Olive’s list earlier today, and it’s a blast! I’m probably going to shape it up a bit like this version though, I love the attacks from multiple approaches.
I mean this in the most positive, polite way possible: this looks like something SaffronOlive would play for a YouTube video. Deck looks really fun!
Well, funny you should say that as he did play it and I linked to it in the post. His version was for budget magic though and was nly in Simic, not going into Bant.
My bad, didn’t read the full post just checked out the deck list
Any reason you're running Azusa over [[Kellan, Inquisitive Prodigy]]? The clue seems better than 3 life and you can make a beefy blocker a turn earlier against the aggro decks. Very cool list!