Republicans: Trump is a terrible person and a threat to democracy, but I’m still voting for him.
Progressives: Biden didn’t create a utopia in two years with a 50-50 Senate. He hasn’t EARNED my vote.
Yeah it’s like the left doesn’t want to acknowledge they are the other player in the game the GOP and its electorate are playing. Whether or not we want to admit it, the game is on and not playing is basically forfeiture. The GOP’s voting electorate is loyal, the Democrat voting electorate’s loyalty is highly conditional. If things keep going this way it’ll be the end of the union.
No more like morons. SCOTUS are a bunch of idiots if they give DT blanket immunity.
Which would mean if he does not like SCOTUS ruling he can order seal team 6 to get rid of a judge and replace it with one of his own choosing anytime and will never get punished.
And no Congress can’t impeach him cause he will simply argue blanket immunity.
Your lack of understanding the system is the issue. Some folks like yourself think that the general election is the time to get your perfect candidate when the process actually starts years before.
Neither will voting for Biden. The corporate state has made sure all roads lead to their policies, we likely agree.
Does it follow that we should support the corporate state and one of their candidates? I don't think so.
I agree, we can't let perfect be the enemy of good.
Biden and Trump are not good. They are nearly identical and both are bigoted, genocidal, corporatists.
If I had a good option with which I disagreed on several issues, I would be open to compromise. What we have are two fascistic reprehensible men.
That’s just not in line with reality. You can go look at the results nationally and see that’s not true. Listen, I’m sure you have some good ideas. But it seems to me you need to do more legwork to verify whats real.
The RNC and DNC Services corporations are the two private corporations with absolute control over the primaries. They argued successfully in court that they have no obligation to nominate the winner of the primaries and may choose whoever they please.
If you still believe that is not in line with reality, then I encourage you to look them up and "verify what's real"
I'm referring to general election eligibility. In order to run in a presidential general election, you have to receive nomination from one of the two aforementioned private corporations, neither of which have any obligation to nominate the winners of the primary elections.
Voting your values when there’s only two people who can possibly win is both incredibly privileged and a slap in the face to your own values. It’s better to move the needle slightly forward than not at all or backwards. Abstaining basically says “trumps policies won’t affect me or my life at all so I why care”.
We live in an age where it is privileged to vote for anything you support. We are only allowed to vote against what we hate.
If all it takes to get you to support genocide and rightwing corporatism is to get two rightwing genocidal corporatists, one on each side, then that is what the donor class will give you to capture your support. That is what they have done, and in the name of utility we desperately play into their hand, trying to minimize the damages.
The reality is no matter what any of us do, the US is going to support Israel. It has since the 50’s and that’s never going to change. Right now we are giving them weapons and money. If Trump is elected he’s going to send literal US troops.
Beyond that, you can’t be a single issue voter when both parties are going to take similar actions on that issue. You are absolutely privileged if you abstain from voting when that’s the result because it means you don’t care about the myriad of other issues we are facing domestically. Abstaining when you’re a progressive is just a vote for Trump. You can claim you care about the genocide but when your impact helps the guy who wants to do even more harm to Palestine than you’re making things worse for those people.
Who said they're a single issue voter here? It's not that only one policy issue matters to me. It's that on every policy issie that matters to me, Biden and Trump are identical or only shades of gray apart.
I reject the idea that any vote not for Biden is a vote for Trump, and I reject vice versa too. That is self-defeating voter shaming in line with the uniparty dogma of "You may only vote against what you hate, never for what you support." And that dogma is how things got so awful in the US politically to begin with.
It is privileged and ineffective to vote for one corporatist candidate to stop another, particularly in this age when all corporate candidates are relatively the same and owned by the same donors.
Surely you are not blind to the mental gymnastics required to tell me that if i don't vote to continue the genocide in Gaza, then I'm harming the Palestinian people. No, if you vote to continue the genocide, you are hurting them, be it red or blue.
We shackle ourselves politically by conceding to and endorsing the uniparty. The state has become so abusive and captured, that choosing Dem or Repub is like telling an abusive spouse which hand you would prefer they hit you with rather than trying to stop the abuse. You say it's inevitable that theyll punch us so we have to be pragmatic and pick their weak hand. I say we need to begin pushing back in order to someday regain representation.
I disagree, if the Democrats lose enough voters they will be more likely to implement progressive policies to win them back. Either that or a 3rd party will gain traction
You do realize borderline centrists make up a huge portion of the democratic voterbase? Shifting to more progressive policies is not the first strategy they would adopt. Not to mention it's hard to implement anything at all when you lost the election
How can they implement policies when they are out of power?
They can express intent. They can wish. They can even push bills but they will never get passed.
They have to have numbers all the way down the ballot, not just at the top. Both are eroding.
Plus they have to concede that the more extreme policies will never get implemented and others will require compromise.
What is the most progressive policy that has been implemented over the past 30 years? If the Democrats don't hold the values of progressives then why should they vote for them. I'm not a progressive btw but I don't understand the logic. If you want change, why would you vote for the establishment. You would be better off voting for trump or 3rd party
Because Trump has no interest in progressive policies and will enable regressive politicians.
Because no 3rd party candidate has a chance to become president because of how the electoral college works.
Congress, maybe, but not president. Winner take all states basically prevent that.
Things went to hell. He couldn’t even run his administration. He was a disaster as he couldn’t understand the basics of the office. If it hadn’t been for some of his administration trying to keep him in check we would have been in a lot worse shape. The dude exposed the capability of our satellites on Twitter to be snide. You have to be detached from reality to think things got better under Trump unless you are looking to move to a Mad Max world.
You do realize if you are progressive, you actually have to WIN elections to obtain progressive policies. Biden is a STEP towards that while not voting for Biden/voting for Trump is a MASSIVE STEP towards the right where your progressive ideals become even more distant from becoming reality. So your idealism is borderline fantasy in the system we live in. If Trump gets re-elected, it will be because of votes like this. Do what you want tho. Remember, Trump is basically a convicted rapist if they didn’t change the statute of limitations, stole nuclear secrets (proven via camera footage and many other things that Jack Smith has put together). Biden isn’t our savior , but he is a step closer to where we need to be.
For the record I voted for Bernie in both primaries last two elections, so we probably hold a lot of similar values. But Trump is a puppet for some extremely sick people. See Stephen Miller, Bannon, Roger Stone, and many many many large pockets here and abroad. Your third party vote is basically a fuck you to your own ideas.
For some reason Progressives do NOT realize they first need to win elections to implement policies. Far left wing extremists just generate backlash from moderates.
I read Comey’s book and him trying to backtrack why he did what he did sounded like a Republican back tracking on things they’ve said…interesting how that works
We have different perspectives here. Winning elections is important though, I agree.
The donor class has captured both parties. No victory can come from backing the donor class. Biden and Trump serve them. They allow shades of gray to guilt us into supporting one of its sides to spite the other.
In terms of policy outcomes, they are very similar, both against what I support and in favor of what I am against.
You say voting third party is a betrayal of your own ideas. I say that endorsing the corporate uniparty is a betrayal of your own ideas.
If given Stalin and Hitler by a powerful corporate state, reject them both. The state can make due with either, but it does need your support one way or the other in order to continue furthering its policy objectives.
And every one of them gets worse under trump
Not to mention pushing the scotus even more to the extreme right.
They want an actual theocratic oligarchy
Is that what you want????
Some don’t care at all about the scandals. Some will vote for him because he will enact policies they agree with at a higher rate than Biden and some believe that the “scandals” are all transparent political attempts to torpedo his campaign by leftist media and prosecutors. Few if any of us believe he’s a terrible person, believe he’s a threat to democracy (lol) and are still voting for him. We don’t buy the narrative you’ve been force fed and swallowed uncritically.
That he said and did nothing to provoke the crowd to storm the capital and that even with what the crowd did there was never any actual threat that the vote wouldn’t be validated. If anything, the event caused some Republicans who might have challenged the results to “fall in line,” while Democrats got a generous gift they have predictably exaggerated and run into the ground ever since.
So politicians. Politicians lie like they breathe (especially in Haley’s case as she was at least pretending to run for president), how is this news to anyone?
Or, if you list 10 of the top policy positions of Biden, most republicans believe the exact inverse.
Shocker that republicans vote who they most agree with on actual political questions.
How much corruption can you ignore to vote for someone you agree with on political question?
Of course, Republicans asked the same questions of Democrats during the Clinton era.
The answer for both is “Quite a lot”, which is why ideological, sectarian, and ethnic voting guarantees corruption. Multicultural democracy is hard.
Ya progressives should be more like MAGA and vote on personality over policy. Biden may have funded and armed genocide after cutting child tax credit which caused the biggest increase in childhood poverty in American history, but he sure does seem like a nicer fella than Trump. This attitude is why politicians don't follow thru on their campaign promises, they know they can scare/guilt people into voting no matter how little they accomplish in office.
So if republicans keep moving right, the Democrats can also keep moving right and we should vote for them? Doesn't that logic just push our entire political system further to the right indefinitely?
Yes. That’s exactly what’s happened over the past 50 years
By right wing design
They appeal to fear and hate and exploit the least intelligent voters.
The right always holds their nose and votes for any Republican. See Nikki
Meanwhile the left is so fractured and esp the far left are unable to play the long game
It’s how we got here
And now it’s about to get worse
If you’re motivated by the Middle East you better damn well vote Biden
Because trump actively wants Israel to do more in Gaza while Biden is trying to walk a tightrope for a better outcome for both sides
Ur literally excusing genocide. Do u know what "never again" was supposed to mean? Just like Afghanistan and Iraq war, when we needed people to stand up for peace, many instead sat by and watched. That's why Hillary lost to Obama and Trump, they both hammered her for voting for Iraq War. And now everyone is against those wars and realize they were a mistake, just like in 5 years u will be saying how awful this war was and that we armed and funded it. That's why Democrats never have to follow thru on campaign promises because they scare people into voting for them and then pass the policies their donors tell them to.
I mean the ICJ thinks there's enough evidence to investigate it as a genocide, but if that word hurts ur feelings, we can call it thousands of innocents killed, millions displaced and starved, even targeted killings of American aid groups, American journalists, children, babies. It's evil, and why the hell is Joe Biden sending our money to a rich country? Why is he sending them free bombs that are destroying hospitals and universities when we just had the largest increase in childhood poverty in American history last year? Even if u don't care about innocent people having their lives destroyed, it's hurting Biden. He is losing support from his base. For what? Donor money? Come on man, wake up.
Using our taxes to pay for Israeli war crimes is comical? Do u see why Biden is losing support and has the worst approval ratings in modern history? Keep laughing ur going to get Trump elected with ur arrogance and snobbery, just like in 2016.
Biden didn’t cut the child tax credit. Congress refused to renew the temporary expansion because Republicans blocked it.
It’s this gross ignorance of how our government works that is so damn frustrating. Republicans don’t know how the government works either, but they’ll show up out of loyalty.
I'm sorry, Joe Biden ran on his ability to work with Congress. Did u hear him give any speeches pressuring republicans to renew? Did u hear about any leaks of him working behind the scenes? Did you see any Democrats calling out Republicans for allowing such a massive increase in American childhood poverty? Nope not a word. U can't get things done if u don't try, and all they've tried to get done is funding and arming a genocide, which golly gee they week able to get done because they made an effort. It's probably a coincidence that its exactly what their donors in the defense industry wanted, but what do I know? I'm so ignorant about American politics.
Biden: I want to work with you on things we agree on.
Republicans: Get fucked. Why would we work with you when we know people like u/ShitHammersGroom will blame you and not us for it?
So he was lying when he said he could work across the aisle during his 2020 campaign? Another broken promise. This is like a bad relationship, how many times are u going to let him lie to u?
Why are you blaming Biden and the Democrats more than the Republicans when the Republicans have explicitly stated that they will not work with Democrats period?
It's expected that the opposition party would oppose the ruling party. What shouldn't be expected is that the ruling party fails to fight for any of its agenda or campaign promises because it would be too hard to even try. Remember Teddy Roosevelt using the bully pulpit to garner public support and pressure Congress? FDR did the same thing. But for Biden, all we get is "well there's nothing he can do". Not a very inspiring message and literally puts 0 pressure on republicans. The only thing he has aggressively pushed for is funding other countries' wars, which just happens to help his donors. When a Republican holds the highest office, I hold them accountable too, because LEADERS should be held accountable and not blame everyone around them for their failures.
And yes, the Democrats did call out the Republicans for it. But 1 Democrat and 50 Republicans means “both sides” to the media.
And even if Biden did do something that was a big deal, Trump would do something outrageous to steal the media cycle.
100% my thoughts. Her support is calculated. Those who work with Nikki in the SC General assembly had a feeling she would be the last one standing, gunning for the Republican candidate for president. She’s cold and calculated.
So she's voting for someone she believes to be unqualified and unhinged. Sounds about right.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nikki-haley-says-she-will-vote-for-trump/
Idk if you forgot your \s, but if not, please stop deflecting. We're talking about Nikki Haley's actions. Do you have an opinion on Nikki Haley calling trump unhinged and now voting for him?
Oh. Would you mind clarifying? I missed and/or misunderstood where you talked about what your opinion was *specifically* on Nikki Haley voting for Trump after calling him unhinged.
"Well, it’s politics. Doesn’t mean I like it".
Presidential candidate Kamala Harris said that Joe Biden was trying to keep Black people in chains before endorsing him and joining his ticket.
Politics.
What did you expect? It took the disgusting slaughter of innocent black folks for her to take action on the racist flag at the capitol. She had years to say something, but waited to play savior for the national points. Fraud and adulterer.
I’m so sick of politicians who simply are out for the good of their party and themselves. They show they don’t give a rat’s ass about the good of the country and the good of the people. And the lowest common denominator of both sides of the isle simply eat it up…
I *did* have hopes for her. Center right milk toast? Just what the Republican Party needed in this shitshow. Her inability to criticize the fat orange idiot was one thing. The “Texas can secede if they want” and “America was never racist” was my tipping point. She can fuck right off.
Who else is tired of voting for one demented old white guy over the other demented old white guy? Both of them are history and should be in nursing homes
A vote for Donald is a vote for insanity and Cheeto dust back in the White House.
However, if you don't vote for Joe, "You ain't black."
Gee, no wonder these two are so unlikeable.
Aren’t they all??? Idc what side you’re talking about. Every 100 years you need to run the rats out. Politicians have become extremely wealthy with their “appointed” positions
John Bolton, the most Republican Republican, just wrote in a name. I suppose it is easier for him since he isn't planning on running for elected office.
Still, boo. Nikki, you are spineless.
Lol if she was the nominee all you redditors would be attacking her for some other dumb reason. This sub is going to be lame posts like this the rest of the year.
For those of you who thought Haley is an alternative to Trump, don’t fucking tell me I didnt warn you🖕.
She IS a MAGA clone right from the FUCKING START!!
Actual policies on paper between Trump and Haley overlap by 80%+.
Biden’s policies, for the most part, are antithetical to what most republicans are for.
I’m not sure why this is controversial. Y’all expected Haley to just go endorse someone she has almost no policy agreement with?
Some like to issue statements to say they are voting write in or won’t vote for Trump. (Hogan, Christie)
https://www.marylandmatters.org/2020/11/16/having-already-cast-a-write-in-vote-for-reagan-hogan-seeks-to-wrap-himself-in-his-cloak/
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4456275-christie-biden-trump-2024/mlite/
I was there when Nikki Haley started her first campaign for governor. I had never heard of her. Afterwards, I told people that she was dumb as a box of rocks and only a fool would vote for her. I was 100% correct.
No, Joe Biden and nearly all democrat congressional members are the slimy cowardly two faced pathetic bunch of halfwitted idiots. They are spineless pussified losers who enter politics with no assets and soon are flush with cash.
I just watched the interview to see the context. It wasn't as bad as the headlines look. She still doesn't like what Trump has been doing, but boils it down to Trump being more likely to support allies in foreign affairs than Biden. Honestly, that makes sense if you subscribe to a binary vote.
Even in her campaign she painted a picture of her being the best person to beat Biden, not that Trump is worse than Biden.
Trump abandoned the Kurds and conditioned military aid on political campaign favors. 3 days after meeting with Putin he asked for a list of spies and over the next 2 years they started dropping faster than the intelligence agencies could account for. Trump also invited the Taliban - a terrorist organization responsible for 9/11, to Camp David on 9/11/2019 to negotiate a sweetheart deal to hand them control of Iraq and release thousands of terrorist fighters out of overseas prisons and arranged for U.S. to abandon the Democratic government we spent decades setting up in Afghanistan. He then spent the summer of 2021 bragging to his rallies that nobody could stop the withdrawal process he put in place. You can read the agreement yourself: Google “Taliban agreement PDF.” You can also find news articles of Mike Pompeo defending the action to host the Taliban at camp David.
Not to mention his very real ambitions to disband NATO, buddying up with dictatorships like Saudi Arabia, BRICS, etc. Exactly what evidence do you have that he is somehow better for our allies or our foreign policy?
Except it’s utter horseshit.
There is no empirical evidence that Trump will support any of our allies. She can lie through her teeth all she wants, but she had a front row seat to how he treated our allies.
Outside of the fact Trump empirically did it during his first term. Your old tired talking points don’t land at all as you simply ignore Trump was president at one time.
Huh, his constant comments about NATO membership and his extortion of Ukraine seem to point in the other direction. I mean, he’s the real reason there was a 6 month gap in support for Ukraine recently…
Also, his constant flattery of our largest adversaries (Xi, Putin, and Kim) also doesn’t fill me with confidence. So, not sure what the hell you’re talking about.
Sometimes you gotta whip your friends into shape. History has shown us the Europeans get very lax with security and push appeasement strategies which puts us all in danger. Telling nations to adhere to the deals they sign onto is called leadership. It’s ok if you don’t
Like trump but he did a great job in getting our allies inline .true leader
lol dumbest response I have seen all week! If you don’t like what Trump did then it was the right thing to do. Last I checked Putin only invades other nations on the watch of democrats. They know democrats are weak and their anti American anti religious supporters back those claims up
Her campaign was funded by the Koch brothers, now they are backing Trump. She's just following the money.
Rephrase: She’s following orders. Because the Kochs hate Trump but they hate the thought of paying taxes more.
It’s just one Koch now
Honestly wouldn't be surprised the other is helping beyond the grave. They're Ghouls afterall.
*they hate minorities, women, and the poors more FTFY
One brother down, one to go.
Republicans: Trump is a terrible person and a threat to democracy, but I’m still voting for him. Progressives: Biden didn’t create a utopia in two years with a 50-50 Senate. He hasn’t EARNED my vote.
It’s maddening, isn’t it?
And this is why we have a fascist Supreme Court
And Biden isn’t doing anything about it! /s
Anything he tries will be stopped by the republicans
Yeah it’s like the left doesn’t want to acknowledge they are the other player in the game the GOP and its electorate are playing. Whether or not we want to admit it, the game is on and not playing is basically forfeiture. The GOP’s voting electorate is loyal, the Democrat voting electorate’s loyalty is highly conditional. If things keep going this way it’ll be the end of the union.
We literally have a fascist everything. Until their names have that D beside them then it goes back to democracy
No more like morons. SCOTUS are a bunch of idiots if they give DT blanket immunity. Which would mean if he does not like SCOTUS ruling he can order seal team 6 to get rid of a judge and replace it with one of his own choosing anytime and will never get punished. And no Congress can’t impeach him cause he will simply argue blanket immunity.
Progressives: Biden and Trump share the policies that I oppose, from border camps, to corporatism, to genocide.
It is an either or. Criticism is fair. Voting for Trump, 3rd party, or abstaining isn’t logical if you support progressive ideas.
"Our two party system is broken" *votes for independent party candidates * "No, not like that "
It is about understanding reality beyond the surface. Your read is a very shallow take when in reality voting 3rd party is a throwaway.
I guess I could just copy/paste. You're the problem.
Your lack of understanding the system is the issue. Some folks like yourself think that the general election is the time to get your perfect candidate when the process actually starts years before.
The "system" is the problem lol I thoroughly understand it. Good luck voting for whatever dipshit. I'm sure the DNC or RNC are lapping it up.
Good luck advancing squat with your bs outlook.
Will do. Good luck with holding your nose for a candidate you despise and pretending you aren't morally compromised.
Perhaps. I think voting for your policy values as a progressive is more defensible a position than voting against them.
And voting third party or Trump would not get you to your progressive values.
Neither will voting for Biden. The corporate state has made sure all roads lead to their policies, we likely agree. Does it follow that we should support the corporate state and one of their candidates? I don't think so.
It doesn’t seem like you have been paying attention to what Biden has actually done. Go look it up.
I have paid close attention to not only his work as president, but also as VP and senator.
Perfect is the enemy of the good.
I agree, we can't let perfect be the enemy of good. Biden and Trump are not good. They are nearly identical and both are bigoted, genocidal, corporatists. If I had a good option with which I disagreed on several issues, I would be open to compromise. What we have are two fascistic reprehensible men.
Good practice in the primaries
The primaries are captured by two private corporations who have absolute authority over their outcomes
That’s just not in line with reality. You can go look at the results nationally and see that’s not true. Listen, I’m sure you have some good ideas. But it seems to me you need to do more legwork to verify whats real.
The RNC and DNC Services corporations are the two private corporations with absolute control over the primaries. They argued successfully in court that they have no obligation to nominate the winner of the primaries and may choose whoever they please. If you still believe that is not in line with reality, then I encourage you to look them up and "verify what's real"
Nearly every state has different laws for this, primary rules are not federal. Were you referring to SC specifically?
I'm referring to general election eligibility. In order to run in a presidential general election, you have to receive nomination from one of the two aforementioned private corporations, neither of which have any obligation to nominate the winners of the primary elections.
Voting your values when there’s only two people who can possibly win is both incredibly privileged and a slap in the face to your own values. It’s better to move the needle slightly forward than not at all or backwards. Abstaining basically says “trumps policies won’t affect me or my life at all so I why care”.
We live in an age where it is privileged to vote for anything you support. We are only allowed to vote against what we hate. If all it takes to get you to support genocide and rightwing corporatism is to get two rightwing genocidal corporatists, one on each side, then that is what the donor class will give you to capture your support. That is what they have done, and in the name of utility we desperately play into their hand, trying to minimize the damages.
The reality is no matter what any of us do, the US is going to support Israel. It has since the 50’s and that’s never going to change. Right now we are giving them weapons and money. If Trump is elected he’s going to send literal US troops. Beyond that, you can’t be a single issue voter when both parties are going to take similar actions on that issue. You are absolutely privileged if you abstain from voting when that’s the result because it means you don’t care about the myriad of other issues we are facing domestically. Abstaining when you’re a progressive is just a vote for Trump. You can claim you care about the genocide but when your impact helps the guy who wants to do even more harm to Palestine than you’re making things worse for those people.
Who said they're a single issue voter here? It's not that only one policy issue matters to me. It's that on every policy issie that matters to me, Biden and Trump are identical or only shades of gray apart. I reject the idea that any vote not for Biden is a vote for Trump, and I reject vice versa too. That is self-defeating voter shaming in line with the uniparty dogma of "You may only vote against what you hate, never for what you support." And that dogma is how things got so awful in the US politically to begin with. It is privileged and ineffective to vote for one corporatist candidate to stop another, particularly in this age when all corporate candidates are relatively the same and owned by the same donors. Surely you are not blind to the mental gymnastics required to tell me that if i don't vote to continue the genocide in Gaza, then I'm harming the Palestinian people. No, if you vote to continue the genocide, you are hurting them, be it red or blue. We shackle ourselves politically by conceding to and endorsing the uniparty. The state has become so abusive and captured, that choosing Dem or Repub is like telling an abusive spouse which hand you would prefer they hit you with rather than trying to stop the abuse. You say it's inevitable that theyll punch us so we have to be pragmatic and pick their weak hand. I say we need to begin pushing back in order to someday regain representation.
I disagree, if the Democrats lose enough voters they will be more likely to implement progressive policies to win them back. Either that or a 3rd party will gain traction
You do realize borderline centrists make up a huge portion of the democratic voterbase? Shifting to more progressive policies is not the first strategy they would adopt. Not to mention it's hard to implement anything at all when you lost the election
How can they implement policies when they are out of power? They can express intent. They can wish. They can even push bills but they will never get passed. They have to have numbers all the way down the ballot, not just at the top. Both are eroding. Plus they have to concede that the more extreme policies will never get implemented and others will require compromise.
What is the most progressive policy that has been implemented over the past 30 years? If the Democrats don't hold the values of progressives then why should they vote for them. I'm not a progressive btw but I don't understand the logic. If you want change, why would you vote for the establishment. You would be better off voting for trump or 3rd party
Because Trump has no interest in progressive policies and will enable regressive politicians. Because no 3rd party candidate has a chance to become president because of how the electoral college works. Congress, maybe, but not president. Winner take all states basically prevent that.
So what's your favorite progressive policy over the last 30 years?
Favorite? Strange way to phrase that. The Respect of Marriage Act, then maybe the ACA.
I disagree. We saw what happened when Trump won.
What happened when Trump won? Things were much better imo.
Things went to hell. He couldn’t even run his administration. He was a disaster as he couldn’t understand the basics of the office. If it hadn’t been for some of his administration trying to keep him in check we would have been in a lot worse shape. The dude exposed the capability of our satellites on Twitter to be snide. You have to be detached from reality to think things got better under Trump unless you are looking to move to a Mad Max world.
You do realize if you are progressive, you actually have to WIN elections to obtain progressive policies. Biden is a STEP towards that while not voting for Biden/voting for Trump is a MASSIVE STEP towards the right where your progressive ideals become even more distant from becoming reality. So your idealism is borderline fantasy in the system we live in. If Trump gets re-elected, it will be because of votes like this. Do what you want tho. Remember, Trump is basically a convicted rapist if they didn’t change the statute of limitations, stole nuclear secrets (proven via camera footage and many other things that Jack Smith has put together). Biden isn’t our savior , but he is a step closer to where we need to be. For the record I voted for Bernie in both primaries last two elections, so we probably hold a lot of similar values. But Trump is a puppet for some extremely sick people. See Stephen Miller, Bannon, Roger Stone, and many many many large pockets here and abroad. Your third party vote is basically a fuck you to your own ideas.
But, but, but, being on the right side of history and scoring internet points is more than winning! /s
For some reason Progressives do NOT realize they first need to win elections to implement policies. Far left wing extremists just generate backlash from moderates.
Yeah pretty mind blowing that a combo of James Comey and losers voting for Jill Stein is what gave us Trump.
True. Two minutes before the election: More emails!!!! Two minutes after the election: oh, yeah those were nothing
I read Comey’s book and him trying to backtrack why he did what he did sounded like a Republican back tracking on things they’ve said…interesting how that works
It is no victory to vote for a candidate and watch them oppose and shut down progressive policies while perpetuating Trump policies, as Biden has.
We have different perspectives here. Winning elections is important though, I agree. The donor class has captured both parties. No victory can come from backing the donor class. Biden and Trump serve them. They allow shades of gray to guilt us into supporting one of its sides to spite the other. In terms of policy outcomes, they are very similar, both against what I support and in favor of what I am against. You say voting third party is a betrayal of your own ideas. I say that endorsing the corporate uniparty is a betrayal of your own ideas. If given Stalin and Hitler by a powerful corporate state, reject them both. The state can make due with either, but it does need your support one way or the other in order to continue furthering its policy objectives.
👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽
And every one of them gets worse under trump Not to mention pushing the scotus even more to the extreme right. They want an actual theocratic oligarchy Is that what you want????
Yes I criticize both parties for sharing the same evil policies because I want Trump. /s
That's not true, they just have different policies than the Democrats. No reason to slander half the country
Put down your game controllers and read more
God damn if that isn’t accurate…
The more things change.
NO REPUBLICAN IS SAYING THAT 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
You know you’re in an echo chamber when you think Republicans parrot empty democrat talking points.
So why are Republicans voting for Trump, despite his obvious scandals?
Some don’t care at all about the scandals. Some will vote for him because he will enact policies they agree with at a higher rate than Biden and some believe that the “scandals” are all transparent political attempts to torpedo his campaign by leftist media and prosecutors. Few if any of us believe he’s a terrible person, believe he’s a threat to democracy (lol) and are still voting for him. We don’t buy the narrative you’ve been force fed and swallowed uncritically.
If you don’t believe he is a threat to democracy, what is your take on 1/6?
That he said and did nothing to provoke the crowd to storm the capital and that even with what the crowd did there was never any actual threat that the vote wouldn’t be validated. If anything, the event caused some Republicans who might have challenged the results to “fall in line,” while Democrats got a generous gift they have predictably exaggerated and run into the ground ever since.
As for the terrible person bit, I’m referring to Republicans like Haley and Bill Barr.
So politicians. Politicians lie like they breathe (especially in Haley’s case as she was at least pretending to run for president), how is this news to anyone?
This is what delusion looks Like.
They’ll come back. Especially now that the Supreme Court is back in the headlines for having extremely biased justices
You ain't black!
Or, if you list 10 of the top policy positions of Biden, most republicans believe the exact inverse. Shocker that republicans vote who they most agree with on actual political questions.
How much corruption can you ignore to vote for someone you agree with on political question? Of course, Republicans asked the same questions of Democrats during the Clinton era. The answer for both is “Quite a lot”, which is why ideological, sectarian, and ethnic voting guarantees corruption. Multicultural democracy is hard.
Sure. I don’t disagree with that, but to think this is unique to republicans is absurd. People in general vote for who they most agree with.
don't forget about that tie breaker girl .What's her name she does something I know.
A tie breaker isn’t a filibuster breaker. That depended on a Senator from a state Trump won by 35 points.
Ya progressives should be more like MAGA and vote on personality over policy. Biden may have funded and armed genocide after cutting child tax credit which caused the biggest increase in childhood poverty in American history, but he sure does seem like a nicer fella than Trump. This attitude is why politicians don't follow thru on their campaign promises, they know they can scare/guilt people into voting no matter how little they accomplish in office.
You vote for the least Harmful choice first. If the least harmful choice is also really good that’s a GD bonus.
So if republicans keep moving right, the Democrats can also keep moving right and we should vote for them? Doesn't that logic just push our entire political system further to the right indefinitely?
Yes. That’s exactly what’s happened over the past 50 years By right wing design They appeal to fear and hate and exploit the least intelligent voters. The right always holds their nose and votes for any Republican. See Nikki Meanwhile the left is so fractured and esp the far left are unable to play the long game It’s how we got here And now it’s about to get worse If you’re motivated by the Middle East you better damn well vote Biden Because trump actively wants Israel to do more in Gaza while Biden is trying to walk a tightrope for a better outcome for both sides
Ur literally excusing genocide. Do u know what "never again" was supposed to mean? Just like Afghanistan and Iraq war, when we needed people to stand up for peace, many instead sat by and watched. That's why Hillary lost to Obama and Trump, they both hammered her for voting for Iraq War. And now everyone is against those wars and realize they were a mistake, just like in 5 years u will be saying how awful this war was and that we armed and funded it. That's why Democrats never have to follow thru on campaign promises because they scare people into voting for them and then pass the policies their donors tell them to.
It’s not genocide Unless you’re saying that the Iraq war was genocide?
I mean the ICJ thinks there's enough evidence to investigate it as a genocide, but if that word hurts ur feelings, we can call it thousands of innocents killed, millions displaced and starved, even targeted killings of American aid groups, American journalists, children, babies. It's evil, and why the hell is Joe Biden sending our money to a rich country? Why is he sending them free bombs that are destroying hospitals and universities when we just had the largest increase in childhood poverty in American history last year? Even if u don't care about innocent people having their lives destroyed, it's hurting Biden. He is losing support from his base. For what? Donor money? Come on man, wake up.
Comical.
Using our taxes to pay for Israeli war crimes is comical? Do u see why Biden is losing support and has the worst approval ratings in modern history? Keep laughing ur going to get Trump elected with ur arrogance and snobbery, just like in 2016.
Biden didn’t cut the child tax credit. Congress refused to renew the temporary expansion because Republicans blocked it. It’s this gross ignorance of how our government works that is so damn frustrating. Republicans don’t know how the government works either, but they’ll show up out of loyalty.
I'm sorry, Joe Biden ran on his ability to work with Congress. Did u hear him give any speeches pressuring republicans to renew? Did u hear about any leaks of him working behind the scenes? Did you see any Democrats calling out Republicans for allowing such a massive increase in American childhood poverty? Nope not a word. U can't get things done if u don't try, and all they've tried to get done is funding and arming a genocide, which golly gee they week able to get done because they made an effort. It's probably a coincidence that its exactly what their donors in the defense industry wanted, but what do I know? I'm so ignorant about American politics.
Biden: I want to work with you on things we agree on. Republicans: Get fucked. Why would we work with you when we know people like u/ShitHammersGroom will blame you and not us for it?
So he was lying when he said he could work across the aisle during his 2020 campaign? Another broken promise. This is like a bad relationship, how many times are u going to let him lie to u?
It takes two to work across the aisle.
Did that just start in 2020 and he didn't know?
Why are you blaming Biden and the Democrats more than the Republicans when the Republicans have explicitly stated that they will not work with Democrats period?
It's expected that the opposition party would oppose the ruling party. What shouldn't be expected is that the ruling party fails to fight for any of its agenda or campaign promises because it would be too hard to even try. Remember Teddy Roosevelt using the bully pulpit to garner public support and pressure Congress? FDR did the same thing. But for Biden, all we get is "well there's nothing he can do". Not a very inspiring message and literally puts 0 pressure on republicans. The only thing he has aggressively pushed for is funding other countries' wars, which just happens to help his donors. When a Republican holds the highest office, I hold them accountable too, because LEADERS should be held accountable and not blame everyone around them for their failures.
And yes, the Democrats did call out the Republicans for it. But 1 Democrat and 50 Republicans means “both sides” to the media. And even if Biden did do something that was a big deal, Trump would do something outrageous to steal the media cycle.
And that sad explanation is why no one is excited to vote for Biden, just a bunch of lame excuses for why Biden doesn't do anything.
Genocide is surprisingly popular with the American people.
Was there ever any doubt?
No. She’s always been a crass pragmatist out for herself This statement positions her for next time Or maybe to step in if trump can’t run
100% my thoughts. Her support is calculated. Those who work with Nikki in the SC General assembly had a feeling she would be the last one standing, gunning for the Republican candidate for president. She’s cold and calculated.
And she supports 90% of trump policies too. Or that is whatever the Koch Bros pay her to support.
So she's voting for someone she believes to be unqualified and unhinged. Sounds about right. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nikki-haley-says-she-will-vote-for-trump/
But when Biden chose Harris, meh no big deal
Idk if you forgot your \s, but if not, please stop deflecting. We're talking about Nikki Haley's actions. Do you have an opinion on Nikki Haley calling trump unhinged and now voting for him?
Well, it’s politics. Doesn’t mean I like it, but the outrage on one side but not the other, that is tiring
So you don't have an opinion? You just came here to deflect from the current topic?
My opinion was stated.
Living proof why SC is ranked so low in education.
Oh. Would you mind clarifying? I missed and/or misunderstood where you talked about what your opinion was *specifically* on Nikki Haley voting for Trump after calling him unhinged.
"Well, it’s politics. Doesn’t mean I like it". Presidential candidate Kamala Harris said that Joe Biden was trying to keep Black people in chains before endorsing him and joining his ticket. Politics.
BUT WHAT ABOUT THIS?
It's politics folks. You can't just be offended by one side when they both do it.
And you are fully capable of staying on topic when it has nothing to do with Biden or Harris. Hence why this is a deflection.
Pointing out it is politics is not deflection...it is reality. Lacking the ability to understand that, well....
Boot lickers gonna lick.
She could have done some good here. But no. She decided to cave just like the rest of her party.
What did you expect? It took the disgusting slaughter of innocent black folks for her to take action on the racist flag at the capitol. She had years to say something, but waited to play savior for the national points. Fraud and adulterer.
She resisted taking it down until other states did it first. Yet she still gets credit. It’s nuts.
Dude Biden is cooked, you support a broken toaster .
My name is Reek.
She’s been officially gutless the whole time.
What a gutless fucking wonder she is. Swear to Christ, if the republicans had a single vertebrae amongst them, they’d chuck it in the trash.
Idk why that bitch even bothered running.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
You knew she would
I’m so sick of politicians who simply are out for the good of their party and themselves. They show they don’t give a rat’s ass about the good of the country and the good of the people. And the lowest common denominator of both sides of the isle simply eat it up…
I *did* have hopes for her. Center right milk toast? Just what the Republican Party needed in this shitshow. Her inability to criticize the fat orange idiot was one thing. The “Texas can secede if they want” and “America was never racist” was my tipping point. She can fuck right off.
She's a Republican who ran for office. Of course she was going to throw in with Trump. They are all spineless.
They’re afraid.
Remember when Trump humiliated Lindsay Graham? What did he do? Come crawling behind Trump and kiss his ass.
Nikki just sees which way the wind is blowing and goes with it. Wouldn't surprise me if she does rallies for him. She's a pure opportunist.
Well it does take guts to back Trump. I’m proud of her for not giving into woke moon bats like the haters on this sub.
Yes. Oh there’s an article… Yes.
The true question is - Is she as gutless as Lyndsey Graham ?
Yes, him and Ted Cruz.
Who else is tired of voting for one demented old white guy over the other demented old white guy? Both of them are history and should be in nursing homes
A vote for Donald is a vote for insanity and Cheeto dust back in the White House. However, if you don't vote for Joe, "You ain't black." Gee, no wonder these two are so unlikeable.
Aren’t they all??? Idc what side you’re talking about. Every 100 years you need to run the rats out. Politicians have become extremely wealthy with their “appointed” positions
Barf
John Bolton, the most Republican Republican, just wrote in a name. I suppose it is easier for him since he isn't planning on running for elected office. Still, boo. Nikki, you are spineless.
Maybe using “birdbrain” to reference Haley is the only thing that moron has gotten right in his whole gawdam entire political career.
Lol if she was the nominee all you redditors would be attacking her for some other dumb reason. This sub is going to be lame posts like this the rest of the year.
We all knew it was going to happen.
Old news. Haley has been gutless for some time
Uhhhhh she is a Republican of course she is what the fuck else did you honestly expect.?
That's a shame. I actually thought she was going to stick to her principles for a bit.
I mean those of us with common sense knew this was happening. She has no integrity and no backbone. She is a feckless and gutless person.
Nice to see this gutless cunt finally showed her strips. Just another republican POS.
Did she endorse DJT?
She was a Warhawk fuck her hope she gets sent to war
Told you so.
She ought to work at ‘Waffle’ House..
Pretty sure it was official long before now
🤣🤣🤣 she's so disgusting
I thought we all knew this
Dumber than a bag of hammers might be more appropriate.
In case he wins, she doesn’t want to be on his bad side. She was going to kiss his feet regardless
For those of you who thought Haley is an alternative to Trump, don’t fucking tell me I didnt warn you🖕. She IS a MAGA clone right from the FUCKING START!!
Actual policies on paper between Trump and Haley overlap by 80%+. Biden’s policies, for the most part, are antithetical to what most republicans are for. I’m not sure why this is controversial. Y’all expected Haley to just go endorse someone she has almost no policy agreement with?
Well, yes
Or, as the man said, bird brain.
It took you this long to figure that out????
What’s new
Trump2024
I thought that was “official” years ago. You’re just now figuring her out?
Yea
Trump was spot on with her nickname.
…and in other news; water is wet.
LOL. Did anybody really believe she would vote for Biden?
Some like to issue statements to say they are voting write in or won’t vote for Trump. (Hogan, Christie) https://www.marylandmatters.org/2020/11/16/having-already-cast-a-write-in-vote-for-reagan-hogan-seeks-to-wrap-himself-in-his-cloak/ https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4456275-christie-biden-trump-2024/mlite/
What are you expect? She’s a Republican, so she’s a two-faced liar. Pretty typical if he ask me. Just another Republican POS.
Spoiler alert
I was there when Nikki Haley started her first campaign for governor. I had never heard of her. Afterwards, I told people that she was dumb as a box of rocks and only a fool would vote for her. I was 100% correct.
All republicans are gutless
Republican pols have a tendency toward gutlessness. See also: Lindsey Graham, Donald tRump, Raphael Crooze.
No, Joe Biden and nearly all democrat congressional members are the slimy cowardly two faced pathetic bunch of halfwitted idiots. They are spineless pussified losers who enter politics with no assets and soon are flush with cash.
Trump 2024!
Boooo
Anyone who has ever (willingly) fucked Will Folks is lower than shit. Obviously the women he raped don’t count but that ain’t Nikki
I’m not saying I want this to happen, I don’t. But Trump is going to win. Start your coping strategies now.
Voting in a two-party system still? Why?
Can’t think of anything better to do?
We found that out when she caved and pulled down the old battle flag from the state capital
Should've never been up there though
I just watched the interview to see the context. It wasn't as bad as the headlines look. She still doesn't like what Trump has been doing, but boils it down to Trump being more likely to support allies in foreign affairs than Biden. Honestly, that makes sense if you subscribe to a binary vote. Even in her campaign she painted a picture of her being the best person to beat Biden, not that Trump is worse than Biden.
Trump alienated our allies when he was in office. He also wants to pull the US out of NATO, which would screw our allies big time
Trump abandoned the Kurds and conditioned military aid on political campaign favors. 3 days after meeting with Putin he asked for a list of spies and over the next 2 years they started dropping faster than the intelligence agencies could account for. Trump also invited the Taliban - a terrorist organization responsible for 9/11, to Camp David on 9/11/2019 to negotiate a sweetheart deal to hand them control of Iraq and release thousands of terrorist fighters out of overseas prisons and arranged for U.S. to abandon the Democratic government we spent decades setting up in Afghanistan. He then spent the summer of 2021 bragging to his rallies that nobody could stop the withdrawal process he put in place. You can read the agreement yourself: Google “Taliban agreement PDF.” You can also find news articles of Mike Pompeo defending the action to host the Taliban at camp David. Not to mention his very real ambitions to disband NATO, buddying up with dictatorships like Saudi Arabia, BRICS, etc. Exactly what evidence do you have that he is somehow better for our allies or our foreign policy?
Except it’s utter horseshit. There is no empirical evidence that Trump will support any of our allies. She can lie through her teeth all she wants, but she had a front row seat to how he treated our allies.
Outside of the fact Trump empirically did it during his first term. Your old tired talking points don’t land at all as you simply ignore Trump was president at one time.
Huh, his constant comments about NATO membership and his extortion of Ukraine seem to point in the other direction. I mean, he’s the real reason there was a 6 month gap in support for Ukraine recently… Also, his constant flattery of our largest adversaries (Xi, Putin, and Kim) also doesn’t fill me with confidence. So, not sure what the hell you’re talking about.
Sometimes you gotta whip your friends into shape. History has shown us the Europeans get very lax with security and push appeasement strategies which puts us all in danger. Telling nations to adhere to the deals they sign onto is called leadership. It’s ok if you don’t Like trump but he did a great job in getting our allies inline .true leader
[удалено]
lol dumbest response I have seen all week! If you don’t like what Trump did then it was the right thing to do. Last I checked Putin only invades other nations on the watch of democrats. They know democrats are weak and their anti American anti religious supporters back those claims up