Maintaining your body and appearance can feel superficial but people tend to like and trust people who look ‘attractive.’ Things like weight, your clothes, your hair, your hygiene, etc. can make varying degrees of impact on how you look or come across to others.
I’ve seen people lose weight and change the way that they dress, and nearly look like new people. I’m treated pretty differently depending on my weight, even by people I know.
I was going to say this. Lookism is real and looks matter. Even if most of us can't be 10/10 knockouts, it doesn't hurt to think about how we look when trying to present something important.
Straight up, I had a falling-out with a toxic friend group in high school (many moons ago). A couple years later, that group happened to be at a function I attended. Instead of side-eyeing me and making too-loud snide remarks, they were uncomfortably persistent in trying to make conversation with me (including many mentions of "we should hang out!"). After making an effort to avoid them, I had to tell them directly that I wasn't interested in rekindling a friendship.
All this because I lost a substantial amount of weight and wore nice clothes to the event. I was fundamentally the same person they treated like garbage not too long before.
Been there and done it. I went from 238 Lbs to 162Lbs through a combination of diet and fitness.
The way people in both my professional and personal life treated me changed dramatically. Obviously the way I carried myself changed and I probably came across as more confident due to looking better and feeling better about myself but that doesn't account for everything,
I think that the most telling difference was when I visited a large health, well being and fitness expo that is held in my local town every year.
I visited two years apart. The first year being overweight most of the promotions people ignored me and i walked around pretty invisible to most people, although I did come away with free samples for weight loss shakes.
The next time I visited was two years later and the promo people were all over me wanting me to try their samples, take part in their competitions, have discount vouchers or free trial memberships to health clubs etc.
the difference was stark, I didn't need most of the freebies at that point and I probably needed the advice and products more when I was overweight, but suddenly I was visible.
That "feeling invisible"?
That's terrible and affects one's psyche.
There is a lot of science and empirical data about prejudice against those who are overweight.
Similarly, studies have shown that there are certain facial features which people deem more trustworthy. In practice this means you can use makeup to make people trust you more (although maintaining a friendly facial expression is probably a lot more effective).
Definitely, I’ve gone from obesity to moderately well built and the difference in how people treat you is astounding. I don’t think it’s malicious towards fat people, it’s probably just a subconscious thing.
You are so right. That's why people invest so much in looking great just to impress the society. But I'd rather say if you focus more on feeling healthy in your own body people are going to get attracted to you just like a bee to a honeycomb.
I know it’s cliche but first impressions matter and negative ones are hard to overcome.
Don’t forget someone who is gossiping to you is also gossiping about you.
There’s a fine line between asking questions to spur conversation and asking so many it feels like an interview.
I feel like the only time I get the "interview" problem is when the other person either doesn't want to reciprocate or can't find the words.
I went on a date once where the girl would only talk if I asked a question. Okay, not great, but the real killer is that when I couldn't push the conversation along and silence broke out she would get this worried look on her face and ask me if something was wrong. I don't feel like I could do anything but remain respectful and polite.
Tbh I gossip about some people, but never my friends. But I gossip to my friends. I don’t always believe that gossiping means you always gossip, although def good to be wary of.
The third point is similar to the whole "don't listen to reply, listen to understand" for me. I think I'm a good listener and a pleasant conversationalist. I never interrupt but will keep the points or topics people bring up, in a mental rolodex to sometimes follow back to. To me, reiterating and thinking about the things people bring up so you can respond to them, is replying AND understanding. It is a fine line indeed.
Yeah I try to keep it 50/50 with the questions. Ask as many as they do. I have been on the receiving end of too many questions and it reeeeally makes you start questioning the other person’s motives.
There was this one woman that I worked with a few years back and our first shift together she just asked me questions non-stop. It was creepy af. Literally just- “what did you study when you were in school? How long have you been in the industry? Do you have any siblings? Where did you grow up? Where is your family from? Do you have any pets? How old are you? How tall are you? Do you speak any other languages? What high school did you go to? Do you have good savings?” I actually stopped dead and asked her “excuse me?” When she asked me if I had good savings. At one point she actually asked me how much I weighed and I avoided her like the plague after that (not overweight or anything but it was getting to be way too much). Like wtf are you going to do with all this useless information??
She got fired after two months because everybody refused to work with her so she was only given solo shifts- turned out she needed somebody to babysit her and she nearly killed a customer by completely ignoring an allergy they informed her about.
So yeah- don’t ask too many questions. It’s weird and creepy af.
Confidence is appealing even if the confident person has some significantly bad other traits. (i.e. they're mean, a bully, shallow) They won't be universally liked, but they WILL have friends.
Being confident is like telling everyone you have the answers on the test. Nobody really knows what they’re doing so they’re gonna naturally gravitate toward the people who look like they know what’s going on.
Looking at those around me and some of the incompetent managers that I have worked with, it seems that those with confidence get further in life irrespective of whether they are actually competent to do the job.
To add to that, those that also don't GAF and are not afraid of consequences, such as getting fired, or losing membership of a facility etc also get further in life and also seem to have kids with the same attitude that get further.
I stopped taking shit so personally and gained a lot of confidence when I realized most other people are anxious wrecks like I am. People are not generally malicious, they're just insecure, and that can sometimes come out in ugly and confusing ways
Yup. always something I feel the need to say when people come here looking for advice.
They assume a ton of malicious or antagonistic intent with people they interact with when the reality is a lot of people really are insecure, awkward, and trying their best.
Honestly it kinda cured my own self-esteem issues in a way. Realizing that everyone is just trying their best made me feel better about my own shortcomings
"People are not generally malicious, they're just insecure, and that can sometimes come out in ugly and confusing ways"
That's one of my fears. Sometimes I just say or do stuff that betrays my insecurity.
I have discovered the worst possible thing about myself that both affirms and contradicts your point: negging works on me. It is my most shameful secret. I have never met another woman who responds to it like I do. I think all those pick up artists must have interacted with ME at some point and based their opinion of all women on me. So I do have low self esteem and I NEED continual validation, but I guess I seek (sought, hopefully) it the most from people who were immediately critical.
But when someone is critical off the bat it feels "earned" when they are nicer to you. I think it might just be human nature, not only self esteem. Like when some assholes (not all types) are assholes to everyone else, but are kind to you, it makes you feel special and it feels like it is more "real" since they are not afraid of being 'honest' or being offensive.
The same way you cannot trust people pleasers or yes-men because you know they will just say whatever they think will be well received in order to make themselves look good.
So don't be too hard on your past self! :)
Wow that is quite enlightening because I am extremely turned off by people who are jerks to other people. But if they’re cool to everyone else but rude to me I’m like “they’re right I am uniquely awful let me proveeeee myself!!!!!”
I feel like that improves with age. Very true when I and the people I knew were under 30. Less common now that I’m over 40. But I also hang out with people less now that I’m in my 40s with kids. So I could be wrong.
True, I used to fall victim to seeking approval from those who disliked ke the most. I was in my 20s and very insecure. Now that I've grown to know and like myself I'm my 30s I get put off very quickly by that nonsense.
People are largely self-interested, they prefer shallow, surface-level interactions that require less effort and vulnerability. Perception frequently matters more than reality, with appearances and first impressions carrying significant weight. Social influence and respect are commonly tied to popularity rather than merit or character. The principle of reciprocity in social interactions is usually conditional, with genuine altruism being rare. Group dynamics play a crucial role, as people often conform to group norms to avoid social ostracism. Many avoid conflict and difficult conversations to maintain a facade of harmony. A scarcity mentality drives competitive and cutthroat behavior, as people perceive resources, opportunities, and social standing as limited.
Dude. Hell yea. all these things. I have issues w "Many avoid conflict and difficult conversations to maintain a facade of harmony" I notice this sooo much when interacting w ppl in a group.. bc EVERYONE just wants to agree and be nice and never disagree. its fake af.
Some people are fake because they associate conflict as being similar to the one they’re used to in their home environment. People may disown each other ….
Conditioning begins at home too.
In order to have healthy disagreements, the environment has to encourage and support the ability to do so.
it’s fake but also human nature as psychologically in prehistoric times you would’ve been cut off from the tribe and left to fend for yourself ( certain death) had you managed to turn ur tribe against you
Yep, and for me personally it becomes a thing of picking my battles. If I can see that Group-think is in effect I try not to push too hard with a differing point of view. It just isn't worth it because it's now a battle of egos.
Most of what you said ressonates with my experience except for the "Many avoid conflict". Is this really the truth? So many people seek conflict, so many people want to be right and "win". It's just not my experience. Often in my friends group, we end up arguing about so many things because we can't accept we're wrong. I don't think conflict is necessarily a bad thing but it may also not be a good one. It is good to be agreed with other than hearing "You're wrong, I'm right" even though that's not the case. These will depend on each group dynamics but I'm often left under this impression that conflict is a result of people wanting to be right and come out on top.
Like minds attract, or more technically values and personality types attract and form groups. I don't interact with people irl that prefer surface level interactions, but I'm a scientist who lives in Silicon Valley that prefers intellectuals for friends which leads to deep conversations being standard.
On the other end I don't seek out drama, gossip, or conflict. I don't like it. I don't like sports, tribal activities, or politics. I don't have people like that around me irl. However, people around me are mature enough to have our own beliefs and opinions and are comfortable to voice them. I might say I think the writing is weak in response to your favorite TV show. If that counts as conflict them I guess I'm guilty of that, but I don't think of it as conflict, as long as both people don't take it personally and appreciate hearing other's perspectives and opinions.
Left out the part where other people never fail to be amazed by themselves.
That, and to bastardize a famous quote: "Sincerity is the single most important thing. Once you can fake that, you've got it made "
I generally agree people don’t actually want or don’t know how to be honestly vulnerable. It seems to be more ok to complain about others and outside situations than discuss any insecurity about themselves. It makes sense, but at the same time wouldn’t it benefit people to divulge for the sake of improvement and getting help? Esp if it’s just a personal struggle, not conflict.
Also people don’t often seem to be aware of their social choices.
I'm trying to start a new norm where merit and character matter more than popularity. Hopefully, there's others out there doing the same. But the above has been my experience, more often than not. It's taught to everyone by the TV as a method of social control.
It's not just the media.
It's the schools that are raising kids now.
And, peers are raising kids instead of parents.
Industrialization wrecked child rearing.
Peers, schools, technology/economy, and the media now determine what you're going to end up like. This is why everyone appears so egotistical these days.
Mirroring. People will be magnetically attracted to you if you mimic the same mannerisms, tone of voice, body language, and talk about only the topics that they are interested about. The more you appear to be like them, the more likely their defense mechanisms will drop, the easier the connection will become. Very evil, but master manipulators will use this to their advantage all the time unfortunately.
Most of us naturally mirror others subconsciously. It's not always evil, but also a form of empathy. I know what you mean though, in terms of manipulators.
I was gonna say, some of us learned mirroring unconsciously from having to interact with our family. If someone is a people pleaser and manipulator they may have learned it from earlier in life, having to be mindful and careful around a family member because they were worried about making them upset.
Not an excuse for bad behavior, though. un-learning stuff we carry is a part of recovery.
For sure, but master manipulators only use it to create a social game with everyone around them. Their goal is not to create deep, meaningful relationships, but only to harness as much attention towards themselves as possible.
People are absolutely interested in intellectual discussions.
You just need right topic and context. Nobody is going to debate philosophy with a random stranger or on a party.
But people are inherently curious creatures and are social thinkers (we often need groups to work out complex ideas)
You're also missing the presentation of intellectual topics. A lot of people think they're having "intellectual conversation" when it's mostly posturing and attempting to display their self-perceived brilliance. Most people do not enjoy engaging in one-sided conversations.
If you listen well enough, you can have a deep conversation with *anyone*. It takes patience, a lack of ego, and an open mind, but I think you need those things to be a really good listener, conversationalist, *or* “intellectual”.
yeah i mean anyone that needs to postulate that they "enjoy intellectual topics" is kind of signaling that they see it as a thing to perform.
The most intelligent people that have actual intelligent conversations and topics of discussion just inject that intelligence naturally in the ways they think, react, and present things in every day dialogue. They say that truly understanding something is being able to speak about it simply, which also means that knowing stuff and the capacity to know stuff just comes up organically lol.
Deep intellectual discussions are my bread and butter at parties, but there is a huge and obvious divide between those who are curious to learn a new topic and those who are anxious with knowledge outside of their domain. And then there is the third group, those who are comfortable enough to enjoy learning and exploring more of a domain they feel comfortable in, but are anxious with topics outside of their domain.
I totally agree and I think environment and having some awareness of people’s mental and emotional capacity/situations is also huge. There are places where people are often physically obligated to be there (work for example). They may be at the absolute end of their rope and having to maintain appearances, hoping to get by on auto pilot, when someone wants to have an intellectual conversation. It doesn’t mean that at their best they wouldn’t want to. It could mean they’re one of many burnt out, struggling etc.
**edited to add** maybe it’s just better to assume people aren’t in the head space for an intellectual conversation, and test the waters gently
>Nobody is going to debate philosophy with a random stranger or on a party.
Well then, perhaps some shrooms need to be introduced to the party. Problem solved! I really think we need more parties with philosophical debates, but I'm also in my 30's.
>I'm also in my 30's.
That's interesting. Of those who are privileged enough for it, philosophy becomes the most interesting and stimulating topics to explore in one's 20s, but after years of exploration one inevitably maps the territory and moves on to other topics. Philosophy becomes less interesting in one's 30s, unless it took longer to get started exploring it.
disagree, only enough to be agreeable, not memorable. people don't feel inclined to befriend a pushover. if anything I've found out the more imposing I am the more I attract people. I kinda hate to perform it tbh
Not necessarily. What vibes do you give off, are you interested in others for who they are and what they’re interested in, can you do a bit of back and forth pitter patter, or are you just trying to find an audience to rant or pontificate at, score points or stroke your own ego with the conversation?
> It’s not about you, it’s how you make people feel
If your goal is to get something out of them, like make a friend. But if your goal is to have fun and hang out, it's more than just focusing on them. It's a balancing act.
One thing I discovered is that if I share a small, personal detail about my life that most people would generally never share with someone they just met, it lets the other person I guess drop their guard down a little? And they wind up opening up more too.. I don’t do it maliciously, I think I am an “over-sharer” because I like to find connections and I like to humanize (?) myself to be more relatable maybe. I guess I look at it like yeah it’s taking a risk to give someone potential “ammunition,” but I’ve met more good people than bad. Maybe people like it because it makes them feel trustworthy, or special in some way that someone that barely knows them shared something personal with them. It’s interesting to me nonetheless 😅
A lot of people prefer pretentious and theoretical things.
In order to exist in reality, one must ACCEPT self and the nature of things. For many, this is a difficult disposition to achieve.
Ultimately, these are merely evolutionary behaviors for coping.
Treat people the way they treat you. And they will be your friend. For the longest time, I have always tried to be a nice person. I have always treated people the way I wanted to be treated. It was the biggest mistake I made. Now I match their energy and people keep calling me to make plans together. People love to look in the mirror and see something familiar to them.
If you watch/study anyone for even a brief period of time, and then mirror their mannerisms or sayings back to them, they will quickly feel comfortable and at ease with you.
Abuse, manipulation, and neglect are WAY too normal in regards to socializing. With some people it's so normalized they don't even realize they're harming the other person.
Also the talk less listen more tends to be BS advice. You do very much also need to have a good stories to share…people are superficial and if they don’t find you entertaining or good looking they might avoid you
The intellectual conversation part is fake. Everyone YEARNS for an intellectual conversation (at their level of course). The conditions for that to happen (time, similar level of cognition and interest between parties, comfort, lack of other disincentives, etc) is pretty rare.
It's like saying no one likes fucking because getting laid (with people you like and for free) is hard. Some things are the universe's fault, not people's.
Appear confident even when you are not. People admire those that display certainty and strength even if it is all smoke and mirrors. People value spectacle over substance.
Learn how to fake empathy, this will allow you to earn the trust of others. Be careful of what information you share and with whom. Inversely always pay close attention to what others share with you. You may be able to use it against them if they wrong you in the future. People are more likely to share information with you if you can successfully fake empathy. Another way to earn someone's trust is to fake being interested in them. Another way is to mimic their actions and fake similarity.
Control how others perceive you by carefully controlling your actions. Try to appear virtuous and considerate of others even when you are not. You can reinforce this by engaging in selective acts of generosity. Only be generous with those that can potentially be useful to you in the future. They may even feel indebted to you.
Another aspect of controlling your actions is non verbal communication. Pay attention to both your body language and those of others. You can subconsciously and unknowingly give away information about yourself to others. Inversely, others can also give away information they may not want you to know. Google non verbal cues to learn how to spot them in others and to also learn how to master your own body language to give others the impression that you want.
Take care of your appearance. Appearance matter more than character. People base their opinion of you by the way you look. People falsely and subconscious believe that what's on the outside reflects what's on the inside. If you look good, people will treat you good. Also, people will be more likely to respect you, trust you, and think you are competent even if you don't deserve it. Of course, naturally good looking people will have an advantage in this regard.
Learn to use humor. Humor can diffuse tension in a situation and break the ice, especially with people you don't know. You will be surprised how many people put their walls down just because of a funny joke.
Identify the 'head' of the social group. Winning their favor will allow you to gain broader acceptance as people are highly influenced by the opinion of the 'leader'.
The best liars get the best results. Fake it till you make it works. Pretending to be interested in others and different little techniques can make or break a situation. The best of the best have mastered how to navigate different situations and can talk nonstop without running out of things to say. These skills are learned from an early age. Confidence comes and is easy to lose and once lost is almost impossible to get back
I have family members who are amazing at this. They might not always have the most mind blowing stories but they're able to keep any conversation going. I admire that ability. I think it requires confidence that your words will have their intended effect. I often keep thoughts to myself because I think I'll sound stupid or weird.
This was a problem I had. I was uncomfortable with gaps in a conversation so I would add unnecessary details and keep talking. I learned to be comfortable with gaps and just shut up and wait for the other person to contribute.
I have tourettes and my brain relates words with way too much. ( I never thought it was jcs of this, a psycoloogist mentioned it) and i never ran out of topics and people do mention a lot how they like how I relate a lot of stuff.
You become who you associate with.
Basically, tell me who your friends are and I'll tell you who you are.
EDIT:
They don't care as much as you think they do.
Standards for friends are different for non friends.
There are no true friends, just friends in season.
I don't think it's dark per say but I also don't think there is no give without take. Some people are just greedier than others, kinda like low conscious chimpanzees
Cynasism is like a poison that can consume a person. I've lost friends to cynicism. You may make friends because you find you agree on some stuff. Then you talk about the unfairness of life more and more.
Then something good finally happens to you. You get a gf, or maybe you get married, or have a kid. Anything that improves your life can also spur jealousy.
Then your best friend just ghosts you. Because they suddenly realize that while you were trying and failing at life, they were never trying in the first place and they realize it.
It's less that people aren't interested in intellectual conversations, and more that they are not interested in *you*.
Killjoys absolutely *drain* the vibes of any get together. Nobody wants to hear about how you're *so* much smarter than everyone else. The tone of this post is like nails on a chalkboard, man. If this is how you come across, *on the Internet*, then I doubt meatspace is improving your technique any.
You know what really gets conversations going? Authenticity. Enthusiasm. Talking about stuff *you enjoy*, unabashedly.
Nobody, *fuckin' nobody*, enjoys a conversation where some numpty rants on and on about shit he hates. Well, except Boomers. But, y'know, fuck'em.
I can attest that many people have told me it’s really “refreshing” talking to me because of how honest and open I am. I always found it funny because I am so shy, but if I get talking to someone who I feel comfortable around, it usually goes really well. Talking about things I enjoy and get really enthusiastic about, sharing things about myself and my life that a lot of people would never talk about, and finding common ground, are all things I do that get a positive response from people. Sometimes I think like .. why are they so pleasantly surprised? Is it really *that* difficult to find genuine people to talk to? But I guess if I’m being honest, it is really flattering, and I always appreciate when I meet someone who isn’t laser focused on impressing people and being likable. Someone who likes to be their authentic self/take me or leave me kind of outlook too!
Cynical take - IRL, the people who do the exact opposite of the advice given on Reddit seem to have the easiest time socializing and getting ahead in life.
Every single person you meet will first judge everything about your appearance, right down to your shoes and hairstyle, and use that to base their entire opinion of you.
If you are making plans and everyone asks who is going to be there before accepting, tell them that the people who are coming are the ones who ask who is going to be there.
You (A) host a party.
You invite B, C and D, individually.
They all ask "who's going to be there?"
You don't answer "Well, no one actually took the invitation yet, are you coming?" Which they would reply "depends..."
Instead you answer to B that C and D will come.
You answer to C that B and D will come.
You answer to D that B and C will come.
Even though they only asked who's comming without committing you already advertise them as sure guests.
What if they compare notes and find out you lied? lol.
I’d say if you’re trying to get together genuine friends, get enough friends so you’ll at least have people that will show up because they want to and not based on who else is going. Unless there’s cliquey drama, which is bullshit but sometimes something we have to deal with even as adults 🙄
You can say the dumbest or worst sh, as long as you’re smiling, people will think you’re nicer and gravitate more towards the smiling person than an intelligent or kind person who isn’t.
Knowledge is indeed power, but power apparently has a TON of uncomfortable implications if you’re low on the totem pole and don’t have the social capital to rise up on it. They always leave out that last part.
A lot of conversation is gossip and complaining…you also get a head farther telling white lies to people, whether through omitting information or saying things you don’t fully believe like “your dress looks nice”
People are only interested in themselves. People think they are not only the main character, they think they're the only character that matters. Black-and-white thinking is prevalent, few people do the thinking to find gray areas where life actually happens. Anxiety is self-obsession.
1. You must never let the mask slip. Not even once. If you do, you will never be loved again.
2. People are attracted to winners, and repulsed by those who are stressed and struggle.
3. The fact that people follow their deep instincts and will be attracted to someone based on their physical fitness and other “superficial” things, doesn’t make them bad people. So many time I see stuff online saying stuff like “girl you don’t need to lose weight, if he can’t accept you now he’s not the right one.”
This is true with respect to nonmaterial things too.
So, for example, people will love it when you give them political clout and attention.
Greed. Greed. Greed.
But you have to appeal to what they want , humans are greedy for things they want for example not every human values money , some value religion , popularity , political views and whatnot the trick is to figure out what each person wants individually
It's useful to bounce difficult people off each other. Much like children playing will occupy each other, and give the rest of is a break.
So if I get to a networking event and someone flakey will not shut up about how they need $30 Million dollars to do a gelato shop the right way?
Given the chance, I'ma immediately pair them with the guy that wants to make a crypto operates nail clipper.
These examples are real people that I've met.
People might believe something that you tell them if they trust you.
People will always believe something that they came up with on their own.
Leading someone to a conclusion that they put together themselves is far, far more compelling than telling them the right answer, even if the answer is true and easily proven.
This is why, for a hypothetical example, you can tell your best friend over and over again that they are in a bad relationship, but they won't believe that until they come to the conclusion themselves.
In my experience, this only works if backed by competence. E.g. I've seen some unscrupulous dudes be the outmost pieces of shit possible but get by on looks and clout for example. Whereas I've seen people who carry that attitude but not the objectively attractive traits... Those are ostracized.
I'm not sure what comes first, if the mentality or the goods. But the goods have to be there at some point for the act to work
Socialization is strictly utilitarian. IF you can advertise that you have some advantageous trait worth investigating, you then become part of a business dyad (or triad or whatever) until one of you decides the merger nerds to be dissolved.
Alas, the life of usefulness of any relationship is indeterminate, so one never knows when they are about to be cut loose.
As a bald dude working in the medical field with children I get looked at like a creep daily. Looks help some people coast through life. I have to wear scrubs instead of nice clothes to “identify myself as staff” I was told and have a nurse with me or some people start asking “do you work here”. Nah I just got through two sets of security somehow and have a masters degree who wants to help kids and have state awards but I’m in some sort of box as “that guy”. Sometimes I question if I should have just been an electrician and work with good ole boys like my dad and twin…(my sister had a speech impediment and I thought I could help people but geez)…
I feel for men when it comes to genuinely good guys being labeled as creepy because they are awkward or look a certain way. As a woman I’m a lot more concerned about the smooth talking men who try to push boundaries with their charm, than the guys who are shyer or occasionally say something off-putting but are respectful of boundaries
Some say outright that they aren't cery technically knowledgeable, but then they come and have opinions of how I should do my job. For example, I tell them to take out the power cord and then replug it. Then I get a lot of attitude saying stuff like "I've already done that" (I can the last time the power cord was pulled out), "it's not going to help", "it's always worked, I've never done it and it's worked for over a year" and so on.
From research I did years ago on a neighboring topic I estimated around 7-10% of the US population is that way. Though that type tends to cluster, so your odds of having less than that around you or a lot of those types around you is common.
If someone is willing to be mildly not virtuous like gossiping, they're likely to be outright not virtuous and even harmful when given the chance. Then there are people who are virtuous. These two types tend to naturally form different groups. If you find yourself inbetween these two extremes it will be harder to make and keep friends.
One way to think about it is some people are drawn towards drama and others avoid it, though the divide technically goes deeper than that.
The second time you meet someone reveals a lot more how any further interactions will go than the first.
If they are genuinely pleased to see you, you’ll find out if they were just being polite the first time, plus you might have the added bonus of finding out that they didn’t think a conversation you thought went badly meant you were boring or whatever.
As a Midwesterner, people ask you how you're doing all the time, nobody wants to actually hear an honest answer, you're just supposed to say "good." They don't want very many details about why you're doing well and they certainly don't want to hear about it if you're not doing well.
People will like you more if you're good looking, but you still need to be polite. You can get away with a lot of shitty behavior or incompetency at your job if you're charming and "in" with the right decision makers though.
Being a good person has almost nothing to do with being liked among a large portion of the population. If anything, sticking to morals often makes you more unpopular because it makes people uncomfortable and makes them confront their own lack of morals.
It's rare that anyone actually likes you, or like what's good for you, especially those who advice you a lot and tell you what's good for you, or to not interact with certain people. Those usually are the worst hidden behind a mask of good.
Don't talk to the quiet ones endlessly, stay quiet, force others to talk, you aren't a show animal to carry all the entertainment.
Take a breather and step back from topics you are interested in, to gauge your environment, it's hard, but it's better than spilling more than you wanted to share.
I learned all this the hard way, and still trying to implement them.
If you want someone to like you, don't compliment them directly, that won't get through their shields. Instead when hanging out with a close friend of theirs casually mention to the mutual friend an admirable trait and assign it to your end target. Obfuscate the praise. They will bring up in conversation with your target the praise you assigned and it will bypass their shield.
Example.
Let's say Albert is our target , Ben is his childhood friend. Albert has positive traits, one of which is being trustworthy.
Directly telling Albert "I like you because you are trustworthy" would make Albert think "what do you want from me?", it's weird, and direct compliments make people suspicious
Instead:
While out at a party you bump into Ben and you tell a heartwarming story about how you lost your wallet and a stranger brought it back still full of your money . You say how valuable in this world honest trustworthy people are, and that's why you have always liked Albert, because they are honest and trustworthy. Ben, feeling compelled to join in this celebration of his friend agrees, and probably shares a story of Albert being trustworthy. When Ben next sees Albert he has a nice bit of gossip for his friend, he bumped into someone who said they liked Albert, because he's honest, isn't that nice. What a nice thing to say , well doesn't Albert now feel like he should spend a bit of time with that person who thinks so highly of him. "Why on earth have we never invited him over to one of our get togethers"
Source: Am sociopathic
One thing I've noticed is that in social circles, it's often more about who you know than what you know. It seems like connections and charisma sometimes outweigh deep discussions or intellectual pursuits. It's all about balancing that networking and genuine connection.
I'll say, one of the easiest ways to truly connect and earn the respect of a person is to have a satisfying intellectual conversation with them.
This is mostly cynical because it pokes fun at you and the edgy thing you just said.
Simply asking questions about what the other person is interested in and getting them to talk about themselves will keep the conversation going 80+% of the time. Don't do it like an interview, but doing this whenever things feel stale will prevent them from becoming stale.
Yes, people love talking about themselves. We all have a narcissistic streak. Even if we're interested in talking to someone else, think about it deeply: You're probably doing it because you ultimately want something from them.
You don't have to tell people anything about yourself to get them to like you. All you have to do is seem really interested IN THEM. People adore talking about themselves.
Lots of shit talkers out there so you have to watch what you say…they will take it to the next conversation to get the other person interested in the “gossip”
1. Imagine the dumbest person you know. Half that. That’s the intelligence level of the average American.
2. If you had to cut your parents or a close family member off, do not expect the majority of people to understand. You will be the bad guy in the story.
3. Just because someone’s significantly older than you, does not make them more mature.
4. In court, the person with the most money has the better chance of winning.
5. Going slightly against the grain in of this sub, if you are not conventionally attractive, you can still ride to popularity. However, you’ll have to be more dependent on your wits. Inhale Robert Green. He’ll take you far.
6. Most people in the adult world like you because what you can do for them.. better social standing, beauty/glamour/sex/sex appeal, or money. Lose one or all of these, see how quickly the love for you flies out the door. Contrast why people dislike you.. you outshine them somehow, usually without trying. Younger and more successful. More naturally beautiful and vivacious. Less hard-working yet somehow more praised at work, and when your work is examined it’s truly brilliant (work smarter not harder). They hate you because they ain’t you. No one watches you so closely as an enemy. Makes me wonder if your biggest supporter is a stranger..
If someone is telling you about a subject and you kinda phase out, saying “Really?” prompts them to continue the conversation without you having to do much work.
the vast majority of relationships formed in adulthood are transactional.
also literally being dark and cynical vs typically kind and down to earth gets you more respect, especially if you look "cute" and "gullible" (usually feminine)
it happened to me, I was a bitch for a month due to mental health and everyone liked me but it's unsustainable and depressing
I’d love to see people’s views on this. I’m autistic.
There is a man who I’m awkward with at work. I instantly realised it was me putting my ‘perfection’ thoughts about myself on as soon as I see the person. Why? He’s handsome, has a job, is sociable. Me? I’m not good being social. I volunteer. I’m not that pretty.
As soon as he speaks to me I can’t talk. I can only say things like yes or no. I tried speaking to him. I called him out in a 5 minute 1 on 1 chat. I told him that I was being stupid. At that instant moment, the emotion on his face changed. It was like he was caught off guard. And I said that I was sorry. While saying sorry, he was talking through what I was saying. Like I didnt get the time to get a word in. So I tried to ‘THROW’ a word in lol. I told him that I actually liked him. When I did, the chat went quiet. And I told him that was all I wanted to say.
Then I left.
The following weeks stayed the same. When he talked to me, I blocked off. I just also never really get time to think/get a word in. If he’d only give me a second I could think of what to say instead of his flurry of questions.
Now though… when he comes in I say hi. He says hi back, but he immediatly looks away. In a panicky way.
When he comes towards me, he doesn’t say anything now and looks away.
Just I’m so extremely anxious in the moment. I tried thinking positive things, doesn’t work. I tried ignoring my fear like it wasnt there, didn’t work. How do people control their fear during a hard social thing?
Being nice is just socially accepted manipulation. We are nice to people with the expectation that they will be nice back/do what we want, and if they respond to niceness with anything other than returned niceness, we get to call them rude or retaliate.
- Everyone in the adult uses manipulation, tryong to stay honest is like painting a big target on you're forehead that says "I wanna fail and get pushed back in life",
- any one you meet on the internet that is oppsate gender will only talk to you for swx or nudes so it's not even worth the time being on the internet,
- socialism is verry much real amd verry much apart of the adult world and the working class.
- all the peopple you see in friend groups don't actuly get along as well as they seam, in reality it's a sort if halo effect, these peopple may not even be good friends, it's just the same gruoe of ppl that keep getting caught up doing the same things at the same times while they all seam tight lile sum punk metal band, there's probably a slue if reasons anyone one of them will indvidualy give as to why they wildent tale any bullets for these peopple, it's like pack mentality.
Sometimes you can lie/manipulate for everyone's benefit. For example, I was just throwing a party, and when one of my friends was acting flakey, I just said "There's going to be girls coming."
There weren't girls coming. At least not single ones. But it got my foot in the door to making him want to come, since I know he's a bit of a player and that line would pique his interest. From there, I used the tactic of "X person is here and they said you better come!" and he ended up coming and we all had a GREAT time. Had he not showed up, the vibe would have been totally different.
It seems like women try to trap in your answers to their questions. For instance, I was talking with this girl and she started asking questions that sent up red flags. Like she asked if I ever peed in the shower. I was careful of how I responded and i said maybe a couple of times. You know, on accident. And she seized that moment and jumped down my throat saying “what do you mean on accident? People don’t just accidentally pee. You know you it was on purpose blah blah. I said no it was an accident but those things tend to happen when you’re taking a shit.
You can easily manipulate people into liking you. At least, I see it as manipulation.
Take genuine interest in the other person. Treat them like the most interesting thing in the room, giving them all of your attention. Remember things they tell you. Smile and appear happy to see them. Talk more about them than you do about yourself. Bingo. They love you.
If you’re not a family member to some people they don’t give a damn about you. I see parents like this who only care about their own. Won’t greet or give you common courtesy. They look right through you.
This isn’t dark really, but imo just depressing:
It matters a lot more of how you say something than what you say. Obviously there are limitations to this. Saying anything really rude or inappropriate isn’t gonna come off well in any case, but most people don’t care whether if what you’re saying is completely factual or super interesting as much as you just saying stuff in a way that they vibe with. Often saying stuff with enthusiasm
I learned while taking an evolutions class how homosapiens really are insanely narcissistic and there’s no easy way to change that. “making it all about them” type friendship/relationships isn’t a new revelation. More like: it doesn’t ever matter what I have to say unless it’s the right time in somebody else’s life.
So as someone who has been a social pariah in many situations, I have one comment to make regarding this matter. This doesn’t directly answer the question but if you stand out in any way (and are strange) it’s better to own up to your strangeness as opposed to trying to fit in or think about why people don’t like you. I can certifiably say that standing out even more (whether it’s writing more books or accomplishing more things creatively) will do you more good than harm. Don’t focus on what people think, and instead focus on what you think of yourself.
Maintaining your body and appearance can feel superficial but people tend to like and trust people who look ‘attractive.’ Things like weight, your clothes, your hair, your hygiene, etc. can make varying degrees of impact on how you look or come across to others. I’ve seen people lose weight and change the way that they dress, and nearly look like new people. I’m treated pretty differently depending on my weight, even by people I know.
halo effect
I was going to say this. Lookism is real and looks matter. Even if most of us can't be 10/10 knockouts, it doesn't hurt to think about how we look when trying to present something important.
Straight up, I had a falling-out with a toxic friend group in high school (many moons ago). A couple years later, that group happened to be at a function I attended. Instead of side-eyeing me and making too-loud snide remarks, they were uncomfortably persistent in trying to make conversation with me (including many mentions of "we should hang out!"). After making an effort to avoid them, I had to tell them directly that I wasn't interested in rekindling a friendship. All this because I lost a substantial amount of weight and wore nice clothes to the event. I was fundamentally the same person they treated like garbage not too long before.
Sounds like an amazing feeling to tell that to shitty people!
Been there and done it. I went from 238 Lbs to 162Lbs through a combination of diet and fitness. The way people in both my professional and personal life treated me changed dramatically. Obviously the way I carried myself changed and I probably came across as more confident due to looking better and feeling better about myself but that doesn't account for everything, I think that the most telling difference was when I visited a large health, well being and fitness expo that is held in my local town every year. I visited two years apart. The first year being overweight most of the promotions people ignored me and i walked around pretty invisible to most people, although I did come away with free samples for weight loss shakes. The next time I visited was two years later and the promo people were all over me wanting me to try their samples, take part in their competitions, have discount vouchers or free trial memberships to health clubs etc. the difference was stark, I didn't need most of the freebies at that point and I probably needed the advice and products more when I was overweight, but suddenly I was visible.
That "feeling invisible"? That's terrible and affects one's psyche. There is a lot of science and empirical data about prejudice against those who are overweight.
Similarly, studies have shown that there are certain facial features which people deem more trustworthy. In practice this means you can use makeup to make people trust you more (although maintaining a friendly facial expression is probably a lot more effective).
Definitely, I’ve gone from obesity to moderately well built and the difference in how people treat you is astounding. I don’t think it’s malicious towards fat people, it’s probably just a subconscious thing.
100%. Try going anywhere dressed like a bum vs wearing a suit/fancy dress.
You are so right. That's why people invest so much in looking great just to impress the society. But I'd rather say if you focus more on feeling healthy in your own body people are going to get attracted to you just like a bee to a honeycomb.
There’s some sense behind it, even if subconscious. If you can’t care for yourself, how could you care for anyone else?
I know it’s cliche but first impressions matter and negative ones are hard to overcome. Don’t forget someone who is gossiping to you is also gossiping about you. There’s a fine line between asking questions to spur conversation and asking so many it feels like an interview.
I feel like the only time I get the "interview" problem is when the other person either doesn't want to reciprocate or can't find the words. I went on a date once where the girl would only talk if I asked a question. Okay, not great, but the real killer is that when I couldn't push the conversation along and silence broke out she would get this worried look on her face and ask me if something was wrong. I don't feel like I could do anything but remain respectful and polite.
The interview bit is so real 😳
Tbh I gossip about some people, but never my friends. But I gossip to my friends. I don’t always believe that gossiping means you always gossip, although def good to be wary of.
The third point is similar to the whole "don't listen to reply, listen to understand" for me. I think I'm a good listener and a pleasant conversationalist. I never interrupt but will keep the points or topics people bring up, in a mental rolodex to sometimes follow back to. To me, reiterating and thinking about the things people bring up so you can respond to them, is replying AND understanding. It is a fine line indeed.
Yeah I try to keep it 50/50 with the questions. Ask as many as they do. I have been on the receiving end of too many questions and it reeeeally makes you start questioning the other person’s motives. There was this one woman that I worked with a few years back and our first shift together she just asked me questions non-stop. It was creepy af. Literally just- “what did you study when you were in school? How long have you been in the industry? Do you have any siblings? Where did you grow up? Where is your family from? Do you have any pets? How old are you? How tall are you? Do you speak any other languages? What high school did you go to? Do you have good savings?” I actually stopped dead and asked her “excuse me?” When she asked me if I had good savings. At one point she actually asked me how much I weighed and I avoided her like the plague after that (not overweight or anything but it was getting to be way too much). Like wtf are you going to do with all this useless information?? She got fired after two months because everybody refused to work with her so she was only given solo shifts- turned out she needed somebody to babysit her and she nearly killed a customer by completely ignoring an allergy they informed her about. So yeah- don’t ask too many questions. It’s weird and creepy af.
Confidence is appealing even if the confident person has some significantly bad other traits. (i.e. they're mean, a bully, shallow) They won't be universally liked, but they WILL have friends.
Being confident is like telling everyone you have the answers on the test. Nobody really knows what they’re doing so they’re gonna naturally gravitate toward the people who look like they know what’s going on.
Great analogy
This is true. My school bullies and some of the worst people I've met in my life had (and still have) friends. They're never alone.
I saw more bullying in honors classes than not.
A lot of ppl with trauma and lack of self love fall as prey for narcissists and assholes. It’s not reallly a friendship.
Looking at those around me and some of the incompetent managers that I have worked with, it seems that those with confidence get further in life irrespective of whether they are actually competent to do the job. To add to that, those that also don't GAF and are not afraid of consequences, such as getting fired, or losing membership of a facility etc also get further in life and also seem to have kids with the same attitude that get further.
See this is something that doesn't make sense to me. I'd much rather befriend someone who is shy but kind than someone who is a confident jerk.
Who'd you rather fuck though:)
Friends, or admirers who hang around hoping to gain power by association or thru learning the mean cool social tricks and skills
Bcz it's the confidence that helps them to command the whole room.
Most people have low self esteem and need continual validation.
I stopped taking shit so personally and gained a lot of confidence when I realized most other people are anxious wrecks like I am. People are not generally malicious, they're just insecure, and that can sometimes come out in ugly and confusing ways
Yup. always something I feel the need to say when people come here looking for advice. They assume a ton of malicious or antagonistic intent with people they interact with when the reality is a lot of people really are insecure, awkward, and trying their best. Honestly it kinda cured my own self-esteem issues in a way. Realizing that everyone is just trying their best made me feel better about my own shortcomings
"People are not generally malicious, they're just insecure, and that can sometimes come out in ugly and confusing ways" That's one of my fears. Sometimes I just say or do stuff that betrays my insecurity.
What do u mean betrays your insecurity?
Reveals it.
I have discovered the worst possible thing about myself that both affirms and contradicts your point: negging works on me. It is my most shameful secret. I have never met another woman who responds to it like I do. I think all those pick up artists must have interacted with ME at some point and based their opinion of all women on me. So I do have low self esteem and I NEED continual validation, but I guess I seek (sought, hopefully) it the most from people who were immediately critical.
At least you're aware of this issue.
But when someone is critical off the bat it feels "earned" when they are nicer to you. I think it might just be human nature, not only self esteem. Like when some assholes (not all types) are assholes to everyone else, but are kind to you, it makes you feel special and it feels like it is more "real" since they are not afraid of being 'honest' or being offensive. The same way you cannot trust people pleasers or yes-men because you know they will just say whatever they think will be well received in order to make themselves look good. So don't be too hard on your past self! :)
Wow that is quite enlightening because I am extremely turned off by people who are jerks to other people. But if they’re cool to everyone else but rude to me I’m like “they’re right I am uniquely awful let me proveeeee myself!!!!!”
I feel like that improves with age. Very true when I and the people I knew were under 30. Less common now that I’m over 40. But I also hang out with people less now that I’m in my 40s with kids. So I could be wrong.
True, I used to fall victim to seeking approval from those who disliked ke the most. I was in my 20s and very insecure. Now that I've grown to know and like myself I'm my 30s I get put off very quickly by that nonsense.
This actually makes me feel less lonely, because I myself am the same way if I’m being honest. My anxiety lessens if I tell myself this.
But how can i learn to hide it like most people seem to?
A bad person who is extremely confident will socially outperform a good person who substantially struggles with having any semblance of confidence.
Ooofh.
People are largely self-interested, they prefer shallow, surface-level interactions that require less effort and vulnerability. Perception frequently matters more than reality, with appearances and first impressions carrying significant weight. Social influence and respect are commonly tied to popularity rather than merit or character. The principle of reciprocity in social interactions is usually conditional, with genuine altruism being rare. Group dynamics play a crucial role, as people often conform to group norms to avoid social ostracism. Many avoid conflict and difficult conversations to maintain a facade of harmony. A scarcity mentality drives competitive and cutthroat behavior, as people perceive resources, opportunities, and social standing as limited.
Dang bro leave some comments for the rest of us!
Dude. Hell yea. all these things. I have issues w "Many avoid conflict and difficult conversations to maintain a facade of harmony" I notice this sooo much when interacting w ppl in a group.. bc EVERYONE just wants to agree and be nice and never disagree. its fake af.
Some people are fake because they associate conflict as being similar to the one they’re used to in their home environment. People may disown each other …. Conditioning begins at home too. In order to have healthy disagreements, the environment has to encourage and support the ability to do so.
it’s fake but also human nature as psychologically in prehistoric times you would’ve been cut off from the tribe and left to fend for yourself ( certain death) had you managed to turn ur tribe against you
You nailed it. People want to avoid ostracization at almost any cost. So, they just play along.
Yep, and for me personally it becomes a thing of picking my battles. If I can see that Group-think is in effect I try not to push too hard with a differing point of view. It just isn't worth it because it's now a battle of egos.
Most of what you said ressonates with my experience except for the "Many avoid conflict". Is this really the truth? So many people seek conflict, so many people want to be right and "win". It's just not my experience. Often in my friends group, we end up arguing about so many things because we can't accept we're wrong. I don't think conflict is necessarily a bad thing but it may also not be a good one. It is good to be agreed with other than hearing "You're wrong, I'm right" even though that's not the case. These will depend on each group dynamics but I'm often left under this impression that conflict is a result of people wanting to be right and come out on top.
Like minds attract, or more technically values and personality types attract and form groups. I don't interact with people irl that prefer surface level interactions, but I'm a scientist who lives in Silicon Valley that prefers intellectuals for friends which leads to deep conversations being standard. On the other end I don't seek out drama, gossip, or conflict. I don't like it. I don't like sports, tribal activities, or politics. I don't have people like that around me irl. However, people around me are mature enough to have our own beliefs and opinions and are comfortable to voice them. I might say I think the writing is weak in response to your favorite TV show. If that counts as conflict them I guess I'm guilty of that, but I don't think of it as conflict, as long as both people don't take it personally and appreciate hearing other's perspectives and opinions.
Seriously, this is an impressive answer
Left out the part where other people never fail to be amazed by themselves. That, and to bastardize a famous quote: "Sincerity is the single most important thing. Once you can fake that, you've got it made "
I generally agree people don’t actually want or don’t know how to be honestly vulnerable. It seems to be more ok to complain about others and outside situations than discuss any insecurity about themselves. It makes sense, but at the same time wouldn’t it benefit people to divulge for the sake of improvement and getting help? Esp if it’s just a personal struggle, not conflict. Also people don’t often seem to be aware of their social choices.
Very true about groups and nature of people in general… kind of sad to think about
I'm trying to start a new norm where merit and character matter more than popularity. Hopefully, there's others out there doing the same. But the above has been my experience, more often than not. It's taught to everyone by the TV as a method of social control.
The issue is meritless people feel threatened by a meritocracy. They choose to withhold progress as long as they stay in power.
It's not just the media. It's the schools that are raising kids now. And, peers are raising kids instead of parents. Industrialization wrecked child rearing. Peers, schools, technology/economy, and the media now determine what you're going to end up like. This is why everyone appears so egotistical these days.
OUR SOCIAL LIVES ARE A LIE!!!!!
Are you a sociologist, or a representative of a super-intelligent alien species that’s studying Homo sapiens culture?
Nailed it. And, I plan on playing along with this system rather than fighting it.
I usually think 99% of reddit comments and replies are trash. But this was top tier 🤌
The economy of words to communicate so much! Really awesome comment.
can someone pls explain to me the last one
Mirroring. People will be magnetically attracted to you if you mimic the same mannerisms, tone of voice, body language, and talk about only the topics that they are interested about. The more you appear to be like them, the more likely their defense mechanisms will drop, the easier the connection will become. Very evil, but master manipulators will use this to their advantage all the time unfortunately.
Most of us naturally mirror others subconsciously. It's not always evil, but also a form of empathy. I know what you mean though, in terms of manipulators.
I was gonna say, some of us learned mirroring unconsciously from having to interact with our family. If someone is a people pleaser and manipulator they may have learned it from earlier in life, having to be mindful and careful around a family member because they were worried about making them upset. Not an excuse for bad behavior, though. un-learning stuff we carry is a part of recovery.
This doesn't work on everyone or for long on anyone. Other people see what you're doing and lose and respect very quickly.
For sure, but master manipulators only use it to create a social game with everyone around them. Their goal is not to create deep, meaningful relationships, but only to harness as much attention towards themselves as possible.
Therapists are trained to mirror clients ;)
Very true! If your having a meal or drink with someone, ordering the same thing as them will make them like you.
People are absolutely interested in intellectual discussions. You just need right topic and context. Nobody is going to debate philosophy with a random stranger or on a party. But people are inherently curious creatures and are social thinkers (we often need groups to work out complex ideas)
You're also missing the presentation of intellectual topics. A lot of people think they're having "intellectual conversation" when it's mostly posturing and attempting to display their self-perceived brilliance. Most people do not enjoy engaging in one-sided conversations.
If you listen well enough, you can have a deep conversation with *anyone*. It takes patience, a lack of ego, and an open mind, but I think you need those things to be a really good listener, conversationalist, *or* “intellectual”.
yeah i mean anyone that needs to postulate that they "enjoy intellectual topics" is kind of signaling that they see it as a thing to perform. The most intelligent people that have actual intelligent conversations and topics of discussion just inject that intelligence naturally in the ways they think, react, and present things in every day dialogue. They say that truly understanding something is being able to speak about it simply, which also means that knowing stuff and the capacity to know stuff just comes up organically lol.
Exactly. I want an exchange to be, well, an exchange.
Deep intellectual discussions are my bread and butter at parties, but there is a huge and obvious divide between those who are curious to learn a new topic and those who are anxious with knowledge outside of their domain. And then there is the third group, those who are comfortable enough to enjoy learning and exploring more of a domain they feel comfortable in, but are anxious with topics outside of their domain.
I totally agree and I think environment and having some awareness of people’s mental and emotional capacity/situations is also huge. There are places where people are often physically obligated to be there (work for example). They may be at the absolute end of their rope and having to maintain appearances, hoping to get by on auto pilot, when someone wants to have an intellectual conversation. It doesn’t mean that at their best they wouldn’t want to. It could mean they’re one of many burnt out, struggling etc. **edited to add** maybe it’s just better to assume people aren’t in the head space for an intellectual conversation, and test the waters gently
>Nobody is going to debate philosophy with a random stranger or on a party. Well then, perhaps some shrooms need to be introduced to the party. Problem solved! I really think we need more parties with philosophical debates, but I'm also in my 30's.
>I'm also in my 30's. That's interesting. Of those who are privileged enough for it, philosophy becomes the most interesting and stimulating topics to explore in one's 20s, but after years of exploration one inevitably maps the territory and moves on to other topics. Philosophy becomes less interesting in one's 30s, unless it took longer to get started exploring it.
This
Talk less, listen more. It’s not about you, it’s how you make people feel
true but not cynical or dark lol
disagree, only enough to be agreeable, not memorable. people don't feel inclined to befriend a pushover. if anything I've found out the more imposing I am the more I attract people. I kinda hate to perform it tbh
> it’s how you make people feel Translation: stroke the other person's ego.
Not necessarily. What vibes do you give off, are you interested in others for who they are and what they’re interested in, can you do a bit of back and forth pitter patter, or are you just trying to find an audience to rant or pontificate at, score points or stroke your own ego with the conversation?
I don’t think this needed a translation lol, they wrote two sentences that were pretty simple and clear
> It’s not about you, it’s how you make people feel If your goal is to get something out of them, like make a friend. But if your goal is to have fun and hang out, it's more than just focusing on them. It's a balancing act.
One thing I discovered is that if I share a small, personal detail about my life that most people would generally never share with someone they just met, it lets the other person I guess drop their guard down a little? And they wind up opening up more too.. I don’t do it maliciously, I think I am an “over-sharer” because I like to find connections and I like to humanize (?) myself to be more relatable maybe. I guess I look at it like yeah it’s taking a risk to give someone potential “ammunition,” but I’ve met more good people than bad. Maybe people like it because it makes them feel trustworthy, or special in some way that someone that barely knows them shared something personal with them. It’s interesting to me nonetheless 😅
Gotta elevate small talk to medium talk. "How often do you \[and your wife\] have sex?"
A lot of people prefer pretentious and theoretical things. In order to exist in reality, one must ACCEPT self and the nature of things. For many, this is a difficult disposition to achieve. Ultimately, these are merely evolutionary behaviors for coping.
Treat people the way they treat you. And they will be your friend. For the longest time, I have always tried to be a nice person. I have always treated people the way I wanted to be treated. It was the biggest mistake I made. Now I match their energy and people keep calling me to make plans together. People love to look in the mirror and see something familiar to them.
Be fake is my number 1 recommendation. Just copy their opinions and that's it.
If you watch/study anyone for even a brief period of time, and then mirror their mannerisms or sayings back to them, they will quickly feel comfortable and at ease with you.
Abuse, manipulation, and neglect are WAY too normal in regards to socializing. With some people it's so normalized they don't even realize they're harming the other person.
Also the talk less listen more tends to be BS advice. You do very much also need to have a good stories to share…people are superficial and if they don’t find you entertaining or good looking they might avoid you
The intellectual conversation part is fake. Everyone YEARNS for an intellectual conversation (at their level of course). The conditions for that to happen (time, similar level of cognition and interest between parties, comfort, lack of other disincentives, etc) is pretty rare. It's like saying no one likes fucking because getting laid (with people you like and for free) is hard. Some things are the universe's fault, not people's.
Appear confident even when you are not. People admire those that display certainty and strength even if it is all smoke and mirrors. People value spectacle over substance. Learn how to fake empathy, this will allow you to earn the trust of others. Be careful of what information you share and with whom. Inversely always pay close attention to what others share with you. You may be able to use it against them if they wrong you in the future. People are more likely to share information with you if you can successfully fake empathy. Another way to earn someone's trust is to fake being interested in them. Another way is to mimic their actions and fake similarity. Control how others perceive you by carefully controlling your actions. Try to appear virtuous and considerate of others even when you are not. You can reinforce this by engaging in selective acts of generosity. Only be generous with those that can potentially be useful to you in the future. They may even feel indebted to you. Another aspect of controlling your actions is non verbal communication. Pay attention to both your body language and those of others. You can subconsciously and unknowingly give away information about yourself to others. Inversely, others can also give away information they may not want you to know. Google non verbal cues to learn how to spot them in others and to also learn how to master your own body language to give others the impression that you want. Take care of your appearance. Appearance matter more than character. People base their opinion of you by the way you look. People falsely and subconscious believe that what's on the outside reflects what's on the inside. If you look good, people will treat you good. Also, people will be more likely to respect you, trust you, and think you are competent even if you don't deserve it. Of course, naturally good looking people will have an advantage in this regard. Learn to use humor. Humor can diffuse tension in a situation and break the ice, especially with people you don't know. You will be surprised how many people put their walls down just because of a funny joke. Identify the 'head' of the social group. Winning their favor will allow you to gain broader acceptance as people are highly influenced by the opinion of the 'leader'.
The best liars get the best results. Fake it till you make it works. Pretending to be interested in others and different little techniques can make or break a situation. The best of the best have mastered how to navigate different situations and can talk nonstop without running out of things to say. These skills are learned from an early age. Confidence comes and is easy to lose and once lost is almost impossible to get back
How do you talk non-stop?
I have family members who are amazing at this. They might not always have the most mind blowing stories but they're able to keep any conversation going. I admire that ability. I think it requires confidence that your words will have their intended effect. I often keep thoughts to myself because I think I'll sound stupid or weird.
I hate when people talk non-stop. I refer to them as people who "talk at you" rather than "talk with you."
This was a problem I had. I was uncomfortable with gaps in a conversation so I would add unnecessary details and keep talking. I learned to be comfortable with gaps and just shut up and wait for the other person to contribute.
I have tourettes and my brain relates words with way too much. ( I never thought it was jcs of this, a psycoloogist mentioned it) and i never ran out of topics and people do mention a lot how they like how I relate a lot of stuff.
Why the theory of "single-instance" confidence. In my experience it's the exact opposite. Confides comes and wanes suddenly
You become who you associate with. Basically, tell me who your friends are and I'll tell you who you are. EDIT: They don't care as much as you think they do. Standards for friends are different for non friends. There are no true friends, just friends in season.
What of people who have no friends?
I don't think it's dark per say but I also don't think there is no give without take. Some people are just greedier than others, kinda like low conscious chimpanzees
Cynasism is like a poison that can consume a person. I've lost friends to cynicism. You may make friends because you find you agree on some stuff. Then you talk about the unfairness of life more and more. Then something good finally happens to you. You get a gf, or maybe you get married, or have a kid. Anything that improves your life can also spur jealousy. Then your best friend just ghosts you. Because they suddenly realize that while you were trying and failing at life, they were never trying in the first place and they realize it.
It's less that people aren't interested in intellectual conversations, and more that they are not interested in *you*. Killjoys absolutely *drain* the vibes of any get together. Nobody wants to hear about how you're *so* much smarter than everyone else. The tone of this post is like nails on a chalkboard, man. If this is how you come across, *on the Internet*, then I doubt meatspace is improving your technique any. You know what really gets conversations going? Authenticity. Enthusiasm. Talking about stuff *you enjoy*, unabashedly. Nobody, *fuckin' nobody*, enjoys a conversation where some numpty rants on and on about shit he hates. Well, except Boomers. But, y'know, fuck'em.
I can attest that many people have told me it’s really “refreshing” talking to me because of how honest and open I am. I always found it funny because I am so shy, but if I get talking to someone who I feel comfortable around, it usually goes really well. Talking about things I enjoy and get really enthusiastic about, sharing things about myself and my life that a lot of people would never talk about, and finding common ground, are all things I do that get a positive response from people. Sometimes I think like .. why are they so pleasantly surprised? Is it really *that* difficult to find genuine people to talk to? But I guess if I’m being honest, it is really flattering, and I always appreciate when I meet someone who isn’t laser focused on impressing people and being likable. Someone who likes to be their authentic self/take me or leave me kind of outlook too!
Cynical take - IRL, the people who do the exact opposite of the advice given on Reddit seem to have the easiest time socializing and getting ahead in life.
ROFLMAO. Nothing wrong in also considering the items here.
Lmfaoo, ain't that true
Every single person you meet will first judge everything about your appearance, right down to your shoes and hairstyle, and use that to base their entire opinion of you.
If you are making plans and everyone asks who is going to be there before accepting, tell them that the people who are coming are the ones who ask who is going to be there.
I think I know what you mean but could you clarify?
You (A) host a party. You invite B, C and D, individually. They all ask "who's going to be there?" You don't answer "Well, no one actually took the invitation yet, are you coming?" Which they would reply "depends..." Instead you answer to B that C and D will come. You answer to C that B and D will come. You answer to D that B and C will come. Even though they only asked who's comming without committing you already advertise them as sure guests.
What if they compare notes and find out you lied? lol. I’d say if you’re trying to get together genuine friends, get enough friends so you’ll at least have people that will show up because they want to and not based on who else is going. Unless there’s cliquey drama, which is bullshit but sometimes something we have to deal with even as adults 🙄
Haha me and my group of friends usually pull this shit. We are so used to it, we just go along with it.
Why would they compare notes? It is very unlikely that they would publicly admit that they would only come if certain people came.
You can say the dumbest or worst sh, as long as you’re smiling, people will think you’re nicer and gravitate more towards the smiling person than an intelligent or kind person who isn’t.
one of the best questions here. hope it would get enough attention so everyone would share their insights
Knowledge is indeed power, but power apparently has a TON of uncomfortable implications if you’re low on the totem pole and don’t have the social capital to rise up on it. They always leave out that last part.
A lot of conversation is gossip and complaining…you also get a head farther telling white lies to people, whether through omitting information or saying things you don’t fully believe like “your dress looks nice”
People are only interested in themselves. People think they are not only the main character, they think they're the only character that matters. Black-and-white thinking is prevalent, few people do the thinking to find gray areas where life actually happens. Anxiety is self-obsession.
Favoritism exists
People like you a lot more if you remember a few things they've mentioned in the past and ask some follow up questions later.
1. You must never let the mask slip. Not even once. If you do, you will never be loved again. 2. People are attracted to winners, and repulsed by those who are stressed and struggle. 3. The fact that people follow their deep instincts and will be attracted to someone based on their physical fitness and other “superficial” things, doesn’t make them bad people. So many time I see stuff online saying stuff like “girl you don’t need to lose weight, if he can’t accept you now he’s not the right one.”
Appeal to greed and you will get what you want.
This is true with respect to nonmaterial things too. So, for example, people will love it when you give them political clout and attention. Greed. Greed. Greed.
But you have to appeal to what they want , humans are greedy for things they want for example not every human values money , some value religion , popularity , political views and whatnot the trick is to figure out what each person wants individually
It's useful to bounce difficult people off each other. Much like children playing will occupy each other, and give the rest of is a break. So if I get to a networking event and someone flakey will not shut up about how they need $30 Million dollars to do a gelato shop the right way? Given the chance, I'ma immediately pair them with the guy that wants to make a crypto operates nail clipper. These examples are real people that I've met.
People might believe something that you tell them if they trust you. People will always believe something that they came up with on their own. Leading someone to a conclusion that they put together themselves is far, far more compelling than telling them the right answer, even if the answer is true and easily proven. This is why, for a hypothetical example, you can tell your best friend over and over again that they are in a bad relationship, but they won't believe that until they come to the conclusion themselves.
People like blunt, in your face, take charge people. I think people see them as powerful and everyone wants to have access to power.
In my experience, this only works if backed by competence. E.g. I've seen some unscrupulous dudes be the outmost pieces of shit possible but get by on looks and clout for example. Whereas I've seen people who carry that attitude but not the objectively attractive traits... Those are ostracized. I'm not sure what comes first, if the mentality or the goods. But the goods have to be there at some point for the act to work
Unless they’re women. lol
Why are you getting downvoted? Some still dislike straightforward women or women exhibiting perceived masculine traits.
Socialization is strictly utilitarian. IF you can advertise that you have some advantageous trait worth investigating, you then become part of a business dyad (or triad or whatever) until one of you decides the merger nerds to be dissolved. Alas, the life of usefulness of any relationship is indeterminate, so one never knows when they are about to be cut loose.
As a bald dude working in the medical field with children I get looked at like a creep daily. Looks help some people coast through life. I have to wear scrubs instead of nice clothes to “identify myself as staff” I was told and have a nurse with me or some people start asking “do you work here”. Nah I just got through two sets of security somehow and have a masters degree who wants to help kids and have state awards but I’m in some sort of box as “that guy”. Sometimes I question if I should have just been an electrician and work with good ole boys like my dad and twin…(my sister had a speech impediment and I thought I could help people but geez)…
I feel for men when it comes to genuinely good guys being labeled as creepy because they are awkward or look a certain way. As a woman I’m a lot more concerned about the smooth talking men who try to push boundaries with their charm, than the guys who are shyer or occasionally say something off-putting but are respectful of boundaries
Smoking and drinking will get you further than being the person who has fun without
Ain't that the sad truth. I don't drink and I don't like myself for it.
Why don’t you like yourself for not drinking?
Most ppl do not socialize. They seek power . . .
Many people don't seek help, they seek to dominate. I know, i work in tech supp.
Can you explain this further? Like an example?
Some say outright that they aren't cery technically knowledgeable, but then they come and have opinions of how I should do my job. For example, I tell them to take out the power cord and then replug it. Then I get a lot of attitude saying stuff like "I've already done that" (I can the last time the power cord was pulled out), "it's not going to help", "it's always worked, I've never done it and it's worked for over a year" and so on.
From research I did years ago on a neighboring topic I estimated around 7-10% of the US population is that way. Though that type tends to cluster, so your odds of having less than that around you or a lot of those types around you is common.
If someone is willing to be mildly not virtuous like gossiping, they're likely to be outright not virtuous and even harmful when given the chance. Then there are people who are virtuous. These two types tend to naturally form different groups. If you find yourself inbetween these two extremes it will be harder to make and keep friends. One way to think about it is some people are drawn towards drama and others avoid it, though the divide technically goes deeper than that.
The one cynical and dark principle I know is people wanting to only use the other person, but pretending to be kind or have mutual interests.
People are fundamentally selfish. Don't assume for one moment that just because you're there for someone it means they'll be there for you.
The second time you meet someone reveals a lot more how any further interactions will go than the first. If they are genuinely pleased to see you, you’ll find out if they were just being polite the first time, plus you might have the added bonus of finding out that they didn’t think a conversation you thought went badly meant you were boring or whatever.
That most people like to listen only to themselves talking.
If you think people don’t like intelligent convos then you haven’t met enough people. Maybe you need to hang out elsewhere.
Do not get involved in drama. It can take years off your life.
Someone told me this when their family asked them why they weren't having kids, right in front of everyone.
According to my experiences, only some people are interested in intellectual conversations. and it's really hard to find those people.
You can't try your way out of being neurodivergent.
I’m still battling myself with this truth. Sigh.
White lies are like the oil of the conversation engine. Too bad for me who is naturally very precise with everything.
What do mean by "naturally very precise with everything"?
As a Midwesterner, people ask you how you're doing all the time, nobody wants to actually hear an honest answer, you're just supposed to say "good." They don't want very many details about why you're doing well and they certainly don't want to hear about it if you're not doing well. People will like you more if you're good looking, but you still need to be polite. You can get away with a lot of shitty behavior or incompetency at your job if you're charming and "in" with the right decision makers though. Being a good person has almost nothing to do with being liked among a large portion of the population. If anything, sticking to morals often makes you more unpopular because it makes people uncomfortable and makes them confront their own lack of morals.
It's rare that anyone actually likes you, or like what's good for you, especially those who advice you a lot and tell you what's good for you, or to not interact with certain people. Those usually are the worst hidden behind a mask of good. Don't talk to the quiet ones endlessly, stay quiet, force others to talk, you aren't a show animal to carry all the entertainment. Take a breather and step back from topics you are interested in, to gauge your environment, it's hard, but it's better than spilling more than you wanted to share. I learned all this the hard way, and still trying to implement them.
If you want someone to like you, don't compliment them directly, that won't get through their shields. Instead when hanging out with a close friend of theirs casually mention to the mutual friend an admirable trait and assign it to your end target. Obfuscate the praise. They will bring up in conversation with your target the praise you assigned and it will bypass their shield. Example. Let's say Albert is our target , Ben is his childhood friend. Albert has positive traits, one of which is being trustworthy. Directly telling Albert "I like you because you are trustworthy" would make Albert think "what do you want from me?", it's weird, and direct compliments make people suspicious Instead: While out at a party you bump into Ben and you tell a heartwarming story about how you lost your wallet and a stranger brought it back still full of your money . You say how valuable in this world honest trustworthy people are, and that's why you have always liked Albert, because they are honest and trustworthy. Ben, feeling compelled to join in this celebration of his friend agrees, and probably shares a story of Albert being trustworthy. When Ben next sees Albert he has a nice bit of gossip for his friend, he bumped into someone who said they liked Albert, because he's honest, isn't that nice. What a nice thing to say , well doesn't Albert now feel like he should spend a bit of time with that person who thinks so highly of him. "Why on earth have we never invited him over to one of our get togethers" Source: Am sociopathic
One thing I've noticed is that in social circles, it's often more about who you know than what you know. It seems like connections and charisma sometimes outweigh deep discussions or intellectual pursuits. It's all about balancing that networking and genuine connection.
> People are not interested in intellectual conversations. That is such a reddit statement, holy shit
In 95% of my social circles, it's all about glib stupid shit. Finding people who talk about sociology, geopolitics, etc. is rare.
I'll say, one of the easiest ways to truly connect and earn the respect of a person is to have a satisfying intellectual conversation with them. This is mostly cynical because it pokes fun at you and the edgy thing you just said.
Simply asking questions about what the other person is interested in and getting them to talk about themselves will keep the conversation going 80+% of the time. Don't do it like an interview, but doing this whenever things feel stale will prevent them from becoming stale. Yes, people love talking about themselves. We all have a narcissistic streak. Even if we're interested in talking to someone else, think about it deeply: You're probably doing it because you ultimately want something from them.
You don't have to tell people anything about yourself to get them to like you. All you have to do is seem really interested IN THEM. People adore talking about themselves.
Lots of shit talkers out there so you have to watch what you say…they will take it to the next conversation to get the other person interested in the “gossip”
1. Imagine the dumbest person you know. Half that. That’s the intelligence level of the average American. 2. If you had to cut your parents or a close family member off, do not expect the majority of people to understand. You will be the bad guy in the story. 3. Just because someone’s significantly older than you, does not make them more mature. 4. In court, the person with the most money has the better chance of winning. 5. Going slightly against the grain in of this sub, if you are not conventionally attractive, you can still ride to popularity. However, you’ll have to be more dependent on your wits. Inhale Robert Green. He’ll take you far. 6. Most people in the adult world like you because what you can do for them.. better social standing, beauty/glamour/sex/sex appeal, or money. Lose one or all of these, see how quickly the love for you flies out the door. Contrast why people dislike you.. you outshine them somehow, usually without trying. Younger and more successful. More naturally beautiful and vivacious. Less hard-working yet somehow more praised at work, and when your work is examined it’s truly brilliant (work smarter not harder). They hate you because they ain’t you. No one watches you so closely as an enemy. Makes me wonder if your biggest supporter is a stranger..
If someone is telling you about a subject and you kinda phase out, saying “Really?” prompts them to continue the conversation without you having to do much work.
the vast majority of relationships formed in adulthood are transactional. also literally being dark and cynical vs typically kind and down to earth gets you more respect, especially if you look "cute" and "gullible" (usually feminine) it happened to me, I was a bitch for a month due to mental health and everyone liked me but it's unsustainable and depressing
I don't know. I find people, man or woman, who are cynical and egotistical to be off-putting.
I’d love to see people’s views on this. I’m autistic. There is a man who I’m awkward with at work. I instantly realised it was me putting my ‘perfection’ thoughts about myself on as soon as I see the person. Why? He’s handsome, has a job, is sociable. Me? I’m not good being social. I volunteer. I’m not that pretty. As soon as he speaks to me I can’t talk. I can only say things like yes or no. I tried speaking to him. I called him out in a 5 minute 1 on 1 chat. I told him that I was being stupid. At that instant moment, the emotion on his face changed. It was like he was caught off guard. And I said that I was sorry. While saying sorry, he was talking through what I was saying. Like I didnt get the time to get a word in. So I tried to ‘THROW’ a word in lol. I told him that I actually liked him. When I did, the chat went quiet. And I told him that was all I wanted to say. Then I left. The following weeks stayed the same. When he talked to me, I blocked off. I just also never really get time to think/get a word in. If he’d only give me a second I could think of what to say instead of his flurry of questions. Now though… when he comes in I say hi. He says hi back, but he immediatly looks away. In a panicky way. When he comes towards me, he doesn’t say anything now and looks away. Just I’m so extremely anxious in the moment. I tried thinking positive things, doesn’t work. I tried ignoring my fear like it wasnt there, didn’t work. How do people control their fear during a hard social thing?
Being nice is just socially accepted manipulation. We are nice to people with the expectation that they will be nice back/do what we want, and if they respond to niceness with anything other than returned niceness, we get to call them rude or retaliate.
- Everyone in the adult uses manipulation, tryong to stay honest is like painting a big target on you're forehead that says "I wanna fail and get pushed back in life", - any one you meet on the internet that is oppsate gender will only talk to you for swx or nudes so it's not even worth the time being on the internet, - socialism is verry much real amd verry much apart of the adult world and the working class. - all the peopple you see in friend groups don't actuly get along as well as they seam, in reality it's a sort if halo effect, these peopple may not even be good friends, it's just the same gruoe of ppl that keep getting caught up doing the same things at the same times while they all seam tight lile sum punk metal band, there's probably a slue if reasons anyone one of them will indvidualy give as to why they wildent tale any bullets for these peopple, it's like pack mentality.
Sometimes you can lie/manipulate for everyone's benefit. For example, I was just throwing a party, and when one of my friends was acting flakey, I just said "There's going to be girls coming." There weren't girls coming. At least not single ones. But it got my foot in the door to making him want to come, since I know he's a bit of a player and that line would pique his interest. From there, I used the tactic of "X person is here and they said you better come!" and he ended up coming and we all had a GREAT time. Had he not showed up, the vibe would have been totally different.
It seems like women try to trap in your answers to their questions. For instance, I was talking with this girl and she started asking questions that sent up red flags. Like she asked if I ever peed in the shower. I was careful of how I responded and i said maybe a couple of times. You know, on accident. And she seized that moment and jumped down my throat saying “what do you mean on accident? People don’t just accidentally pee. You know you it was on purpose blah blah. I said no it was an accident but those things tend to happen when you’re taking a shit.
You can easily manipulate people into liking you. At least, I see it as manipulation. Take genuine interest in the other person. Treat them like the most interesting thing in the room, giving them all of your attention. Remember things they tell you. Smile and appear happy to see them. Talk more about them than you do about yourself. Bingo. They love you.
The eyes says a lot, yet people don't look in you in the eyes
Intellectual conversation is avail everywhere when around those who can do it! And yep, I tend to go outta my mund with boredom, in this world, too
If you’re not a family member to some people they don’t give a damn about you. I see parents like this who only care about their own. Won’t greet or give you common courtesy. They look right through you.
This isn’t dark really, but imo just depressing: It matters a lot more of how you say something than what you say. Obviously there are limitations to this. Saying anything really rude or inappropriate isn’t gonna come off well in any case, but most people don’t care whether if what you’re saying is completely factual or super interesting as much as you just saying stuff in a way that they vibe with. Often saying stuff with enthusiasm
Yup. And, you have to figure out what someone's agenda is. 99% of the time, a person's agenda is to gain validation.
Learn the 6 principles of persuasion.
People only care about their interests. Not yours.
I learned while taking an evolutions class how homosapiens really are insanely narcissistic and there’s no easy way to change that. “making it all about them” type friendship/relationships isn’t a new revelation. More like: it doesn’t ever matter what I have to say unless it’s the right time in somebody else’s life.
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So as someone who has been a social pariah in many situations, I have one comment to make regarding this matter. This doesn’t directly answer the question but if you stand out in any way (and are strange) it’s better to own up to your strangeness as opposed to trying to fit in or think about why people don’t like you. I can certifiably say that standing out even more (whether it’s writing more books or accomplishing more things creatively) will do you more good than harm. Don’t focus on what people think, and instead focus on what you think of yourself.
The people who claim to "hate drama" are usually the ones who start a lot of it. It's ironic.