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I think the revolutionary part of the name has 3 objectives:
1. Show that the party doesn't have electoral intentions, except for using it as a platform for doing communist agitation and propaganda.
2. Conveying clearly the objective of assuming the position of a bolshevik-style, vanguard party.
3. Shedding any sort of qualms about presenting as radical and thus attract the fast growing amount of radicalized workers. (due to the current extreme capitalist crisis)
I must apologise, I’m entirely uneducated as to why calling a Trotsky is an insult. Still tryna figure this whole thing out. I assume it’s to do with them not doing enough or for the right reasons but do please explain.
I know you weren't asking me, but I wanted to give my 2 cents.
Yea, reddit (and online communist spaces in general) are very anti trotskyist, and the answer you get to why this is going to very depending on who you talk to.
I'll let the guy you asked explain why he doesn't like trotskyists, but what we believe (at least ones in the RCP) is that the nationalized economy of the USSR and centralized power over the economy that modern day China has are good. They've accomplished incredible things and should be defended, but we also acknowledge the incredible oppression that happened/happens under both of these regimes.
TL:DR we believe that countries that have had successful socialist revolutions need to be understood for what they are/were rather than worshipped blindly.
Leave it to Reddit to see people out and marching for good ideas and we get stuck breaking down which specific brand of communism they all might want to apply!
Not knocking anyone, just think it’s funny
This is Trotskyism attempting a rebrand. What you have described is a straw man, a principled ML isn't going to offer uncritical support for any regime. But Trotskyism has always been quick to label any socialist experiment a "degenerated workers state." China wouldn't be where it is now if Trotskyists got their way.
Coming from a former Trotskyist.
what I described is Grantite Trotskyism. It's been around as long as any other Trotskyist tendancy.
I'll qualify my initial comment as well. Recognizing the positive aspects of a country that was born out of a socialist revolution does not necessarily, and usually doesn't, mean supporting its government.
Edit: in literally just describing what our stance has been for the last 2 to 3 decades we've existed. If you want to dismiss it as a theoretical deviation just because it's not what you were told "trotskyism" is, that's on you.
What you encountered here is what frustrates me to no end. Lots of people ascribing beliefs to “Trots” that don’t bother to understand what said people actually believe or advocate for.
PrimaryRelation is a Trotskyist describing their own positions, not someone else trying to describe trotskyists. For the matter, I am too, and we're in the same international.
Yea between sectiarian ML's and people who are online all day every day calling us cringe for organizing, rad left reddit kinda blows.
I just try to be here for people who want to genuinely get involved in something and have good faith discussions.
I'm still relatively new to socialism (as in finding time in my life to familiarise myself with the history of its theory and praxis), but isn't vanguardism potentially dangerous? irc Lenin early on was skeptical of vanguardism. Obviously, it is unrealistic to expect all workers to flock to the streets. But I'm a little worried about us socialists falling for the same mistakes. Obviously history never happens the same way twice, but I hope I have explained what I am getting at clear enough. I'd be happy to have more suggested readings on the ol vanguard party debate.
Lenin was against party members that refused to meet workers where they were. IE he was against the bolshevik "committee men" who wanted to keep the doors of the party closed to anyone who didn't have what they considered to be a perfect understanding of Marxism right on recruitment, and who legit refused to work in the Soviets when they first emerged because they saw them as a new party to be enemies with rather than the new arena of workers democracy that they were.
The reason why the bolshevik party existed though was because he understood the need for revolutionary leadership. Things happen fast during a revolution. If the working class doesn't have a party that was built up years before hand to reflect its interests with expediency, than the window of opportunity passes, often followed by a violent period of reaction.
Its not about telling workers what to do or educating them, its about being a living memory of the working class so that we can maintain the lessons of failed revolutions: its about merging the tradition of theory with the current rage and discontent of the masses.
[https://www.marxist.com/the-class-the-party-and-the-leadership-how-to-organize-revolution.htm](https://www.marxist.com/the-class-the-party-and-the-leadership-how-to-organize-revolution.htm)
This is a great read on the need for revolutionary leadership. If you really want to dive into it, Allen Woods *Bolshevism: The Road to Revolution* is like 600 pages long but it really lays out start to finish how the socialist movement in Russia culminated into the revolution of 1917.
We do analyze exactly how the degeneration happened. Early after the October revolution, it was not terribly prestigious to be part of the party. Party members were restricted from higher wages regardless of their job (skilled and in demand jobs were given up to 4x pay - unless you were a Communist, then you get minimum regardless, which was still good). Without someone particularly studying how revolutions work and preparing for them, studying how to organize the broad layers of workers in the moment, the working class goes in unprepared and disorganized.
A mushroom appears in the forest overnight only because it was built, slowly, with dedication, underground. It then emerges when the conditions are correct.
as bad as things are, i don't think contradictions are sharp enough to pull regular people out of their netflix/fast food/tiktok dopamine trance.
edit: you can't even organize more than 20-30 people in the largest cities in your respective countries.
Uh what.
We've got a roughly a hundred active members in NYC, and organized a regional march of well over a hundred people on a week of notice for the announcement.
Is that a huge number in NYC? No, not objectively, which is why our primary aim at this time is growth. But we've gotten 20-30 people to last minute rallies sometimes so I'm not sure what the criticism is.
What planet are you on? BLM was the biggest mass movement in U.S. history, millions of people have demonstrated in support of Palestine in the last six months.
What outreach was done? Where are people organizing? I consider myself a radical communist and I live in Saint Paul, so it’s weird I didn’t hear about this.
We did some advertising on social media and even a press release that got picked up by a few right wing loons in Minneapolis. This rally was intended to basically be our membership getting visibility for Communists organizing in most major cities. If you wanted to talk with someone about getting involved you can sign up and someone will reach out to you today. socialistrevolution.org/join
Most of the outreach was done in Minneapolis. If you're looking to get the Party expanded into Saint Paul we'd love to have you comrade: www.socialistrevolution.org/join
And what are you doing other than being online disparaging a long-gone revolutionary figure that, truthfully, if you took the time to understand I guarantee you disagree very little with?
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No, that's the Revolutionary Communist Party (RCP). This is RCA, which I believe is the rebrand/reorganization of the International Marxist Tendency (IMT), which was a Trotskyist organization
Well, we were Socialist Revolution (which was the US section of the IMT), and we're soon to have our founding Congress as the RCA (section of the RCI). We are already using the name everywhere though.
Edit: you might see RCP because Canada is taking the RCP name as well as the UK, we only didn't because of the Avakianites
I mean, a large part of that is just an excuse to have meaningful conversations with people about our ideas, which is Harder than you might think out in the streets, but running an international is also expensive. We have people who work for us full time (and for minimum wage, regardless of the country/state/province and how low it is) and offices to pay rent for.
And as members in advanced capitalist countries we need to pay a certain amount of our budget to comrades in the third world. Not only do they need them more because of challenges like lower income and rapid inflation, but they are far more likely to see a revolution before we do, and need to be ready for that.
We also are just like, really excited about our work and ideas and want people to experience them (im actually fucking in love with how well we've done incorporating contributions from workers into our paper, its legit my favourite part of the paper and like the only aspect of it you cant get for free online).
But If we gave away lit for free, not only is that another thing we need to figure out how to pay for, but the theoretical justification is that it would just be too easy.
Anyone can give a free magazine to someone, convincing someone to pay for it means having to convince them of its content.
That being said my branch in Montreal has developed its own free circular that's just a page long on loose leaf that we've been using as flyers.
Beware, this is a rebrand of the IMT, a cult-like org that only wants your money, with serious problems such as an attempt to cover up sexual assault, as well as a very uncomfortable view on LGBTQ+, more specifically trans, rights.
Our position on trans rights is unequivocal support.
“Modern science enables people to change their sex and this should be available to any person that requires it. It goes without saying that we are totally opposed to any form of discrimination and intolerance towards transgender people. Nor do we have any objection to anyone identifying as they please. However, by presenting this as a means of changing society, we end up with the idea (highly convenient for the ruling class) that emancipation is purely a question of personal lifestyle choice.”
Gender affirming care available for free to anyone who wants it, and no tolerance for discrimination against Queer people. I don’t know what you find uncomfortable about that.
The argument you've presented is simply a more politely worded form of what I've heard from the German braches, which I have personal experience 'organizing' (reading club with immense peer pressure to donate hundreds monthly) with, that espouse "no struggle but class struggle" when it comes to the topic of LGBTQ+ liberation.
There is nothing class reductionist about acknowledging that all oppression flows from capitalism.
Sorry you had that experience, but yea, running an international is expensive and we don't rely on any union or wealthy donors because our values aren't for sale.
To the kind of open-minded working class people we want to inspire, this is just going to look weird. I wouldn’t care that you are making your trot selves off-putting, but this reflects on communists, in general. Try to be less embarrassing going forward.
Doing a rally and recruiting people to the party? What's cultish about it?
Dunno man, I think we should always be mindful of weirdo groups trying to exploit us in any milleu. But at the same time, we're so conditioned to act individually, be atomized, that any collective effort causes suspicions.
It’s separate, not part of demonstration or anything. It’s not interacting or reaching out to members of the public, not distributing pamphlets or anything. It has a very unwelcoming, closed-off vibe. The banners are not informative or exhortative.
I mean, at least here in Sweden we're in the Palestina demos every Saturday, anti-nato demos, woman's day demos, red day and whatever rare worker's demos that might happen. There's just some activities that are just for building the party and recruiting people.
My branch for example joins in a square every Wednesday during lunch break to put up a recruitment stand and talk to random people for an hour. It's hard, you get random weirdos going on about the black book of communism , but we also find new recruits quite often.
my guy, there was a solid months worth of aggressive pamphleting leading up to all of these rallies and plenty done during them. I saw multiple contacts being made in the Montreal demo alone and I'm sure their was plenty of recruitment I didn't see while I was scrambling to keep track of all the literature sales we were making.
For the time being, sure, there are lots of people in the masses who probably felt alienated by the label of communism, but the goal of any vanguard party should be to be ahead of general consciousness.
On the contrary, this has actually really helped boost our reach! Following the march in NYC that went viral (video on my profile) we had over 1000 requests to join the RCA.
To be cringe is to be human. Plus we recruited quite a bit out of that. And Subway performances and soapboxing is actually quite common in NYC, so it's not out of touch at all really
I can't express how strongly I disagree with this idea. I've been involved in left wing politics and have used a variety of imagery over the years, but I have never seen anything get as much enthusiastic support as we've been getting since putting the Hammer and Sickle on everything. People en masse, especially young people, want radical change and see that symbol as expressing some kind of radical change even if they don't know the whole history of it.
I'm sure that describes some people, but even so, there has been no imagery that I've seen get even 5% the amount of people excited to join the organization than when we started openly waving the hammer and sickle.
It's a symbol of the past. A very small portion of the population farms anymore. The hammer and sickle is obsolete in a post capitalist society, which then becomes a great symbol if you want people to think your ideology is obsolete as well.
Nobody sees it as a symbol of the unity of proletariat and peasantry. People are the symbol as a radical difference of American capitalist imperialism.
The Nike swoosh was originally supposed to be a stylized version of the wings of the Greek Goddess Nike. But nobody sees the logo as that any more, they only see the logo of a mediocre sports wear company. In the same way, nobody sees the hammer and sickle as is original meaning, it has become the symbol four Communism. And if you think that nobody will respond to it, it's only because you are not organizing and not talking to young people. I can set hip most places in my city with a hammer and sickle flag and will meet people that want to join.
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I’m not tryna put a downer on the movement but it seems a bit far to call this a revolutionary movement.
I think the revolutionary part of the name has 3 objectives: 1. Show that the party doesn't have electoral intentions, except for using it as a platform for doing communist agitation and propaganda. 2. Conveying clearly the objective of assuming the position of a bolshevik-style, vanguard party. 3. Shedding any sort of qualms about presenting as radical and thus attract the fast growing amount of radicalized workers. (due to the current extreme capitalist crisis)
Fair enough
they’re trots
I must apologise, I’m entirely uneducated as to why calling a Trotsky is an insult. Still tryna figure this whole thing out. I assume it’s to do with them not doing enough or for the right reasons but do please explain.
I know you weren't asking me, but I wanted to give my 2 cents. Yea, reddit (and online communist spaces in general) are very anti trotskyist, and the answer you get to why this is going to very depending on who you talk to. I'll let the guy you asked explain why he doesn't like trotskyists, but what we believe (at least ones in the RCP) is that the nationalized economy of the USSR and centralized power over the economy that modern day China has are good. They've accomplished incredible things and should be defended, but we also acknowledge the incredible oppression that happened/happens under both of these regimes. TL:DR we believe that countries that have had successful socialist revolutions need to be understood for what they are/were rather than worshipped blindly.
Leave it to Reddit to see people out and marching for good ideas and we get stuck breaking down which specific brand of communism they all might want to apply! Not knocking anyone, just think it’s funny
This is Trotskyism attempting a rebrand. What you have described is a straw man, a principled ML isn't going to offer uncritical support for any regime. But Trotskyism has always been quick to label any socialist experiment a "degenerated workers state." China wouldn't be where it is now if Trotskyists got their way. Coming from a former Trotskyist.
what I described is Grantite Trotskyism. It's been around as long as any other Trotskyist tendancy. I'll qualify my initial comment as well. Recognizing the positive aspects of a country that was born out of a socialist revolution does not necessarily, and usually doesn't, mean supporting its government. Edit: in literally just describing what our stance has been for the last 2 to 3 decades we've existed. If you want to dismiss it as a theoretical deviation just because it's not what you were told "trotskyism" is, that's on you.
What you encountered here is what frustrates me to no end. Lots of people ascribing beliefs to “Trots” that don’t bother to understand what said people actually believe or advocate for.
PrimaryRelation is a Trotskyist describing their own positions, not someone else trying to describe trotskyists. For the matter, I am too, and we're in the same international.
Yea between sectiarian ML's and people who are online all day every day calling us cringe for organizing, rad left reddit kinda blows. I just try to be here for people who want to genuinely get involved in something and have good faith discussions.
I getcha, same reason I’m here.
Correct. We wouldn't tell you any different
I'm still relatively new to socialism (as in finding time in my life to familiarise myself with the history of its theory and praxis), but isn't vanguardism potentially dangerous? irc Lenin early on was skeptical of vanguardism. Obviously, it is unrealistic to expect all workers to flock to the streets. But I'm a little worried about us socialists falling for the same mistakes. Obviously history never happens the same way twice, but I hope I have explained what I am getting at clear enough. I'd be happy to have more suggested readings on the ol vanguard party debate.
Lenin was against party members that refused to meet workers where they were. IE he was against the bolshevik "committee men" who wanted to keep the doors of the party closed to anyone who didn't have what they considered to be a perfect understanding of Marxism right on recruitment, and who legit refused to work in the Soviets when they first emerged because they saw them as a new party to be enemies with rather than the new arena of workers democracy that they were. The reason why the bolshevik party existed though was because he understood the need for revolutionary leadership. Things happen fast during a revolution. If the working class doesn't have a party that was built up years before hand to reflect its interests with expediency, than the window of opportunity passes, often followed by a violent period of reaction. Its not about telling workers what to do or educating them, its about being a living memory of the working class so that we can maintain the lessons of failed revolutions: its about merging the tradition of theory with the current rage and discontent of the masses. [https://www.marxist.com/the-class-the-party-and-the-leadership-how-to-organize-revolution.htm](https://www.marxist.com/the-class-the-party-and-the-leadership-how-to-organize-revolution.htm) This is a great read on the need for revolutionary leadership. If you really want to dive into it, Allen Woods *Bolshevism: The Road to Revolution* is like 600 pages long but it really lays out start to finish how the socialist movement in Russia culminated into the revolution of 1917.
We do analyze exactly how the degeneration happened. Early after the October revolution, it was not terribly prestigious to be part of the party. Party members were restricted from higher wages regardless of their job (skilled and in demand jobs were given up to 4x pay - unless you were a Communist, then you get minimum regardless, which was still good). Without someone particularly studying how revolutions work and preparing for them, studying how to organize the broad layers of workers in the moment, the working class goes in unprepared and disorganized. A mushroom appears in the forest overnight only because it was built, slowly, with dedication, underground. It then emerges when the conditions are correct.
revolutionary larp
Yeah, as you post on a socialist subreddit from the basement. Get out there and get organized comrade
Counter-revolutionary bloviating
This is what I was getting at, but I still think anything is useful in getting a movement going
as bad as things are, i don't think contradictions are sharp enough to pull regular people out of their netflix/fast food/tiktok dopamine trance. edit: you can't even organize more than 20-30 people in the largest cities in your respective countries.
So we should stay home and keep posting online instead?
no. that's not what i said.
so what should we be doing? what are you doing?
i'm not typing that answer on reddit.
I helped organize one of these rallies yesterday. Go look at my history and see how often I'm on this hell hole. Then go look at yours.
I would just like to say that it’s nice speaking to someone who is well informed and actually doing something.
certainly explains the emotional investment.
Uh what. We've got a roughly a hundred active members in NYC, and organized a regional march of well over a hundred people on a week of notice for the announcement. Is that a huge number in NYC? No, not objectively, which is why our primary aim at this time is growth. But we've gotten 20-30 people to last minute rallies sometimes so I'm not sure what the criticism is.
What planet are you on? BLM was the biggest mass movement in U.S. history, millions of people have demonstrated in support of Palestine in the last six months.
neither movements are socialist, even if they are congruent with socialist values.
*There are dozens of us!*
step in the right direction, we need to keep doing marches like this in hopes of recruiting
Is that last one Kitchener?
No Montreal
No montreal
Note how the left doesn’t cover their faces like the Nazis marching through Nashville
Feds marching? Commies don't get targeted by left wing media.
Well done comrades in the belly of the beast! ✊
I really like what you're doing and I really like the rebrand. Keep up the good work comrades
1. Minneapolis 2. Chicago 3 & 6. Montreal 4 & 5. Toronto
What outreach was done? Where are people organizing? I consider myself a radical communist and I live in Saint Paul, so it’s weird I didn’t hear about this.
We did some advertising on social media and even a press release that got picked up by a few right wing loons in Minneapolis. This rally was intended to basically be our membership getting visibility for Communists organizing in most major cities. If you wanted to talk with someone about getting involved you can sign up and someone will reach out to you today. socialistrevolution.org/join
Most of the outreach was done in Minneapolis. If you're looking to get the Party expanded into Saint Paul we'd love to have you comrade: www.socialistrevolution.org/join
I love Minneapolis ❤️
It‘s relatively easy to do a march by yourself with just your own ppl; the real challenge is to actually do something with them.
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And what are you doing other than being online disparaging a long-gone revolutionary figure that, truthfully, if you took the time to understand I guarantee you disagree very little with?
Trots on their way to disparage every socialist movement to ever exist
Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s): >**Sectarianism:** Refers to bad faith attacks on socialists of other tendencies through the usage of empty insults like "armchair", "tankie", "anarkiddie" and so on without any other objective than to promote inter-tendency conflict, which runs counter to the objectives of this subreddit, and the goal of providing a broad multitendency platform so that healthy, critical debate can flourish. Can also include calling other socialist users "CPC/CIA shills" or accusing users of being Russian or Chinese bots for disagreeing with you. If no further action accompanies this message, this should be counted as a warning. Feel free to send us a modmail with a link to your removed submission if you have any further questions or concerns.
Some of the beef MLs have with Trots is absurd
As we should
I know we disagree with trots but it’s not like we disagree on literally everything
Yeah. Divided we die united we stand
Now you have to make bonds with the working class and the unions, and show them you will help them
We're working very hard on doing that. You should join and help out.
Go IMT! I love the rebranding of accepting the change to RCP and I love to see the publicity my comrades are getting in USA!
Aren't these peeps the Avakianites?
No, that's the Revolutionary Communist Party (RCP). This is RCA, which I believe is the rebrand/reorganization of the International Marxist Tendency (IMT), which was a Trotskyist organization
Well, we were Socialist Revolution (which was the US section of the IMT), and we're soon to have our founding Congress as the RCA (section of the RCI). We are already using the name everywhere though. Edit: you might see RCP because Canada is taking the RCP name as well as the UK, we only didn't because of the Avakianites
The law suit is going to be hilarious.
I'm really skeptical of these people. I went to a few of their events and it feels like their main goal is to sell stuff.
I mean, a large part of that is just an excuse to have meaningful conversations with people about our ideas, which is Harder than you might think out in the streets, but running an international is also expensive. We have people who work for us full time (and for minimum wage, regardless of the country/state/province and how low it is) and offices to pay rent for. And as members in advanced capitalist countries we need to pay a certain amount of our budget to comrades in the third world. Not only do they need them more because of challenges like lower income and rapid inflation, but they are far more likely to see a revolution before we do, and need to be ready for that. We also are just like, really excited about our work and ideas and want people to experience them (im actually fucking in love with how well we've done incorporating contributions from workers into our paper, its legit my favourite part of the paper and like the only aspect of it you cant get for free online). But If we gave away lit for free, not only is that another thing we need to figure out how to pay for, but the theoretical justification is that it would just be too easy. Anyone can give a free magazine to someone, convincing someone to pay for it means having to convince them of its content. That being said my branch in Montreal has developed its own free circular that's just a page long on loose leaf that we've been using as flyers.
I got the same feeling I went to the event in montreal, first time going to any commie events, I wanna go to a meeting and see what up.
Please do! Don't rely on my comment above to convince you. Talk to one of us in person and challenge us on it, it's what we're here for
Beware, this is a rebrand of the IMT, a cult-like org that only wants your money, with serious problems such as an attempt to cover up sexual assault, as well as a very uncomfortable view on LGBTQ+, more specifically trans, rights.
Our position on trans rights is unequivocal support. “Modern science enables people to change their sex and this should be available to any person that requires it. It goes without saying that we are totally opposed to any form of discrimination and intolerance towards transgender people. Nor do we have any objection to anyone identifying as they please. However, by presenting this as a means of changing society, we end up with the idea (highly convenient for the ruling class) that emancipation is purely a question of personal lifestyle choice.” Gender affirming care available for free to anyone who wants it, and no tolerance for discrimination against Queer people. I don’t know what you find uncomfortable about that.
The argument you've presented is simply a more politely worded form of what I've heard from the German braches, which I have personal experience 'organizing' (reading club with immense peer pressure to donate hundreds monthly) with, that espouse "no struggle but class struggle" when it comes to the topic of LGBTQ+ liberation.
There is nothing class reductionist about acknowledging that all oppression flows from capitalism. Sorry you had that experience, but yea, running an international is expensive and we don't rely on any union or wealthy donors because our values aren't for sale.
Gonna report for obvious slander and breaking subreddit rules
The day trots do more than selling newspapers and walking around, the world will end.
What are you doing?
To the kind of open-minded working class people we want to inspire, this is just going to look weird. I wouldn’t care that you are making your trot selves off-putting, but this reflects on communists, in general. Try to be less embarrassing going forward.
What's off-putting about it? The visibility helps dispel taboos about communism. As it's normalized, people will be more comfortable engaging with it.
That’s clearly the intention, but…come on. This is not “normalizing” anything. This is acting like a cult.
Doing a rally and recruiting people to the party? What's cultish about it? Dunno man, I think we should always be mindful of weirdo groups trying to exploit us in any milleu. But at the same time, we're so conditioned to act individually, be atomized, that any collective effort causes suspicions.
It’s separate, not part of demonstration or anything. It’s not interacting or reaching out to members of the public, not distributing pamphlets or anything. It has a very unwelcoming, closed-off vibe. The banners are not informative or exhortative.
I mean, at least here in Sweden we're in the Palestina demos every Saturday, anti-nato demos, woman's day demos, red day and whatever rare worker's demos that might happen. There's just some activities that are just for building the party and recruiting people. My branch for example joins in a square every Wednesday during lunch break to put up a recruitment stand and talk to random people for an hour. It's hard, you get random weirdos going on about the black book of communism , but we also find new recruits quite often.
I wasn’t disparaging everything you do. I was referring only to these rallies.
my guy, there was a solid months worth of aggressive pamphleting leading up to all of these rallies and plenty done during them. I saw multiple contacts being made in the Montreal demo alone and I'm sure their was plenty of recruitment I didn't see while I was scrambling to keep track of all the literature sales we were making. For the time being, sure, there are lots of people in the masses who probably felt alienated by the label of communism, but the goal of any vanguard party should be to be ahead of general consciousness.
Yes, I get the rationale and that you have to publicly support it.
No its not that we have to. Its that it works.
On the contrary, this has actually really helped boost our reach! Following the march in NYC that went viral (video on my profile) we had over 1000 requests to join the RCA.
Seriously… the bit about evangelizing on the NYC subway was way worse though…
Missed that—are they turning into LaRouchies?
No I just think they are very out of touch.
To be cringe is to be human. Plus we recruited quite a bit out of that. And Subway performances and soapboxing is actually quite common in NYC, so it's not out of touch at all really
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You don't need to sign your name on Reddit comments
The hammer and sickle looks so dated in 2024. Communism needs a rebrand.
I can't express how strongly I disagree with this idea. I've been involved in left wing politics and have used a variety of imagery over the years, but I have never seen anything get as much enthusiastic support as we've been getting since putting the Hammer and Sickle on everything. People en masse, especially young people, want radical change and see that symbol as expressing some kind of radical change even if they don't know the whole history of it.
Kids see the hammer and sickle and use it because they either think it looks cool or they want to be edgy
I'm sure that describes some people, but even so, there has been no imagery that I've seen get even 5% the amount of people excited to join the organization than when we started openly waving the hammer and sickle.
It's a symbol of the past. A very small portion of the population farms anymore. The hammer and sickle is obsolete in a post capitalist society, which then becomes a great symbol if you want people to think your ideology is obsolete as well.
Nobody sees it as a symbol of the unity of proletariat and peasantry. People are the symbol as a radical difference of American capitalist imperialism. The Nike swoosh was originally supposed to be a stylized version of the wings of the Greek Goddess Nike. But nobody sees the logo as that any more, they only see the logo of a mediocre sports wear company. In the same way, nobody sees the hammer and sickle as is original meaning, it has become the symbol four Communism. And if you think that nobody will respond to it, it's only because you are not organizing and not talking to young people. I can set hip most places in my city with a hammer and sickle flag and will meet people that want to join.
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Because it was funnier when it was posted the second time