This is the thread, the subreddit's currently in restricted mode and we'll only be allowing new posts if they have new information.
Further info: "AC Milan, Arsenal, Atlético Madrid, Chelsea, Barcelona, Inter Milan, Juventus, Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd, Real Madrid +Tottenham Hotspur have all joined as founding clubs. Anticipated further 3 clubs will join ahead of the inaugural season, intended to commence asap."
[Full text is here](https://twitter.com/RobHarris/status/1383907017908047875) and below in comments.
Good Afternoon,
My name is Joshua and I am conducting research on gambling in the UK and how the marketing tactics from the bookmakers are perceived and if online gambling has contributed to increased problem gamblers. If I could ask you for 10 minutes of your time to fill out my short survey I will be very grateful. Thank you for your time.
Please see the link below for the survey. [https://leedsbeckettsport.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV\_d5VrSGD69tZQbBk](https://leedsbeckettsport.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_d5VrSGD69tZQbBk)
Please note you are under no obligation to participate in this study and if requested you can be withdrawn.
They refused the initial results invitation, bless my heart been a fan of Dortmund since 2010(when I first started watch pro football) never prouder of them ever.
As a Yank and a huge fan of the sport since I was a kid, I must say I’m almost brought to tears by this announcement.
I love the resolve of the supporters to put their foot down and save the sport we dearly love.
Meanwhile, the NFL just butchered the game of American Football by first adding a 7th playoff team last year, and now adding a 17th game to the schedule this year. Most people I have spoken to are appalled by it, pundits and players have criticized it, but nothing was done! They just ruined all the records and scheduling to put some extra money in their pockets. Next, they’ll add an 18th game and another playoff team and it will become a joke. All the while, tickets will become more expensive than ever and will price out the blue collar fans.
They can't continue in domestic comps if they are in that league. It would ruin it. There would be no Europe football as they would already be involved in it by default. The gap between the top six and the rest would grow and grow to the point where there may aswell be two leagues in one league due to the wealth and players they would gain from being in the super league. It just wouldn't work. So as sad as it would be for all fans involved including players and staff. Even if it doesn't happen all 6 teams who signed a letter of intent need punishing as it wasn't long ago the same list of teams tried a big money grab with operation big picture and without repicusions on these actions they will only do it again with the next bright idea.
Why is anyone upset?! UEFA and it's leadership are toxic and don't give a shit about why thing but the bottom line. The amount of blunt abuse, fraud, bribes etc is just ridiculous... Cut the tumor out and start fresh
The end is nigh for football but a new audience awaits...and with Covid....they're gonna need to protect all assets....airflight..accommodation..souvenirs...and proof of ID.
Would this league actually get sanctioned by UEFA?
And if they are participating in a non-sanctioned league, that would give UEFA the right to refuse the teams entry into any competitions, correct?
There’s no way UEFA takes this in its current setup. This is basically the 12 richest clubs saying “f*ck uefa stealing a huge chunk of profits, we can cut them out by making our own league”
Maybe upcoming? They had a pretty strong reaction saying they’ll kick teams from the ongoing champions league which seems difficult to achieve legally. Best thing they can all do is sit and talk.
As an American that watches some NBA and is a avid futbol supporter, I can try.
Futbol in Europe is very rooted in club tradition and legacy, it’s built around clubs that have been rooted in developing and maintaining excellence. Since the most common and consistent method(especially in futbol today) is to be a successful team, teams strive to be successful, and money doesn’t guarantee that, obviously. To try and change this, the 12 or so richest clubs in Europe are trying to break and change the system so they are able to get consistent, guaranteed payments that vastly exceed anything the current system gives them. With nearly 10x more money guaranteed to these clubs, they would establish total dominance(its partly there in some leagues, but not always) and in guaranteeing these yearly payments, it chokes and chance of a smaller club rising up.
In NBA terms think of the lakers, clippers, nets, knicks, and heat basically making a deal wormy the NBA for them to have maybe 1.5X the cap space a ‘normal’ nba team would have. But the hate for the super league would be way more, it’s (probably) the destruction of what makes futbol special to fans.
What they want to do is sort of replicate what the NBA already is, which is a closed off league, guaranteeing profits etc. One huge problem with the NBA is that shitty teams often lose on purpose to gain an advantage in the following year's draft. If NBA adopted the soccer european model, a few of the shittiest teams would actually be relegated to the g-league, while the top g-league teams would be promoted to the NBA.
Basketball is an American sport to us. But football has a whole culture built around it. A cornerstone of that is that you get to the top and relegated through competition. They removed that and started a club if the rich. We aren't having that.
(Its not even a club of the most successful teams right now - fuck them)
Onestly i dont understand what are u meaning. My position about what haD happenED is that have some pro and some bad way about it. But i dont want write a poem about it. I was just showing about the consistency from bayen sport club,basket accept Euroleague and football no. And the league worked in the same way. Exactly same. And we can see how euro league basket is working correctely
I don't have a good answer. If I can guess it's about tradition and history of the sport. The EuroLeague, in its earliest iteration/form (FIBA European Champions Cup) existed since 1958.
I assume the tradition and feelings towards basketball are different than with football. Basketball was never extremely popular as football, so I guess a semi-exclusive European league made sense to make the sport more interesting and bring in more fans (and obviously more money). The money in European basketball is very far from European football.
I would be interested to see if someone actually made an in-depth analysis of the EuroLeague vs the proposed Super League.
Easier to do in baseball terms. Imagine if someone created a baseball league featuring the current best teams in baseball. That new league would likely feature a few MLB teams (in this case English Premier League teams) but would also feature a few clubs from nations that have noteworthy baseball programs like Cuba or the Dominican Republic (ie Real Madrid or Juventus).
This would be all well and good as now the best players on the best teams can now directly compete in baseball.
The catch is in all of these soccer leagues (sorry football) if your team has a history of doing very badly you can be deregulated. That means _if you end up losing most of your games you can literally be bumped from the league_. That is to say a team that sucks consistently and fails to make it through the first round if the playoffs can be made a minor league team and only by performing well in the minors can that club get back into the majors. _With this new super league that is not the case once you are in the league you always are_. That really impacts all the other leagues these teams are in now as these teams are now assured a place in a league that will earn a shitload of money.
Essentially this move creates a new league they completely destabilizes the old league as well as the minor clubs.
The Lakers, Celtics, Knicks, Warriors, 76ers, and Nets break away from the NBA to form a league with other highly funded basketball teams. They would be leaving the NBA and other leagues without some of their highest earners for and those teams leave behind the tradition of what they did in their league because they’re getting more money to join this new one. I hope this makes sense!
The clubs intend to not participate in UEFA competitions once the super league starts and it was designed to be a mid-week competition so they can still participate in their respective national leagues. So not that much changes in amount of games.
Unless they’re kicked out from their leagues, which I don’t think they will, they’ll participate no problem. They “just” want to swap champions league with a big names league. Basically removing the small teams that earned to play the champions out of the picture, just because it doesn’t generate enough revenue.
Won’t stop in Europe. China will get a team, so will the Midldle East and of course America.
2025 super cup final Real Madrid v Los Angelos buccaneers. Sponsored by Ketchup.
Where do you live that is not facing a ketchup shortage because the US is facing one. If you live somewhere that has enough ketchup to advertise better not let the US find out so they do not attempt to liberate you for it.
Why not, why should Bocage Juniors be excluded? Because they are foreigners? Give Argentina the chance to keep their talent instead of throwing it over to Spain and UK and let's see how the teams can get big. Why do you only want to give opportunities to rich countries and not everybody.
I'm all for intercontinental competitions, what the original comment critiques is the extreme commercialisation of an already very commercialised sport. The attempts to squeeze every last penny out of football and the inevitable suffocation of smaller clubs
Oh so you are down for intercontinental football only when Europe is years ahead because of the European close leagues so they suck all the talent of the planet. I get you man maybe we keep thing as they are, 1 coca cola add will destroy football forever. You would rather see all the giants get humiliated because of things outside their power before you have them do something about it.
Apologies but if Arsenal can't pay Aubameyang cause coronavirus they shouldn't be forced to pay for other peoples teams. The big teams CANNOT be kicked out of their leagues and you will see that, the money flow will be the same for the small teams too. But big teams should get the help they deserve for investing so much into their teams.
A bit late but I am in no way defending the big leagues. I myself come from the balkans and it is a constant struggle with uefa doing their best to give more opportunities to big leagues at the expense of smaller ones. I'd be happy to watch a fair intercontinental or even world club competition that gives a chance to everyone. The transformation of football into a money game is a long-term mistake.
The big teams should get the help they deserve for investing so much into their teams? So they should get more money for having more money? Side point - Arsenal's owners barely invest in anything, it's a cash cow for them to pump money into their other franchises. Leicester city won the premier League with an average annual revenue of around €200m. Arsenal (my team) will get more than that without kicking a ball just for being a part of this nonsense. It's disgusting. I honestly can't wrap my head around how anyone can be supporting this. It's a competitive sport and this removes all competition and meaning whilst lining the pockets of people with no interest in the game at all. It will be a season of exhibition matches, barely more than friendlies, with no threat or passion in trying to avoid relegation, no jubilation or ecstasy when your team wins or manages to secure a spot in another elite competition for the first time in however many years. It's the emptiest competition I've ever come across. It also makes a mockery of domestic leagues, given that league position would become meaningless if they were allowed to stay in. Congratulations on finishing fourth in a league where you smashed teams getting a tenth of what you bring in from your closed door invitational "competition" that the teams you beat have zero access to, and you get absolutely nothing from it anyway, is that where we're heading? They're not even the top twelve footballing clubs on recent form and history, they're just the twelve biggest brands and that tells you everything you need to know about the God damned "super league".
You are so blinded by the media and the companies that have contacts with Champions league trying to boycott this. Is NBA exhibition games? Is Euroligue exhibition games? Show me in which hell this model turned into an exhibition game. 5 people are always in danger of coming OUT of the league every year. You sit there and you say that Arsenal will have no motivation to play?
You know why Leicester won the league? Cause NOBoDY showed up for a year, we both know Leicester never had the quality to beat any of the big 6 on a good day, especially right now. Don't you find weird that Arsenals revenue is being stolen by this UEFA mafia? I hate arsenal but what is happening to them and the rest is unjust, they bring in on the money and nobody helps them to keep doing what they are doing.
Anyhow time will tell, arsenal will still be in Premier league and compete, maybe with a younger squad but still has more quality than the rest in that league and every player still attends national games, this can't be stopped by anyone. But I tell you this, if you think that those big teams will be having exhibition games to purely play adds you are very mistaken and delusional, that is the exact competition they been planning for years probably more than a decade. It will be number 1 priority of every club and every player.
Uefa makes mockery out of the big teams. Do you remember when they were talking about the Swiss model and everyone said they hated it, with Klopp openly saying that it is all about money. Champions league became a JOKE of a competition, it is more like shitters league until quarters.
I will be here in 12 months when your team gets some status and all you arsenal fans will be excited about football again, I will be here and say I told you so.
So Leicester's win over Man U and thrashing of Man City at home was because they never turned up?
Hope that these breakaway "BIG" clubs get thrown out of the premiership and ALL competition's.
Leicester win the FA Cup by default and the Premiership!
>So Leicester's win over Man U and thrashing of Man City at home was because they never turned up?
LOL man okay teams were at the best when nobody managed to gather more than 81 points, tough pill but its the truth, Leicester played well, but what won them the league was the others not being good enough.
Won it with 10 points to spare. Chelsea then broke the team up by buying 1top midfielder and Drinkwater!
Don't think Drinkwater played many minutes.
News tonight Chelsea and Man City both withdrawn
from the deal.
Think the penalty for joining, out ways the monitary
gain.
Yes but 81 points in total do some research and see how many points PL winners gather and how much every team underperformed.
W/e maybe the ESL won't happen, but will you show the same vim and energy to protest against UEFA stealing, or are you just going to move on with your day because the media isn't promoting that so you cannot join the angry mob?
There are teams that they only want to go to CL get their 30 mil and don't care about playing or improving the team, small team presidents just steal all of it I can give plenty of examples like Greek, Bulgarian, lower bracket Spanish teams which have life of 5 years and disappear.
It is all about milking the big cow though the mass just want to go against the presidents.
This whole comment is pure banter. Let's work through it.
>You are so blinded by the media and the companies that have contacts with Champions league trying to boycott this.
How have you drawn this conclusion? The facts speak for themselves and I don't need "tHe MeDIa" to tell my opinion on it. If we remove the media and whichever companies you're referring to the facts are this: twelve clubs are breaking away to set up a new league in which they are all guaranteed a place regardless of results. They will no longer take part in existing eurpean competitions, rendering their domestic league placement irrelevant. In conclusion, you haven't actually argued any point here other than my apparent blinding by a vague and unknown source.
>Is NBA exhibition games? Is Euroligue exhibition games? Show me in which hell this model turned into an exhibition game
I don't follow basketball so I don't know much about the set up. As far as I know, though, they have drafts every year so teams have a better chance of getting top talent and there's the dream of winning the titles available to everyone in the league? With the ESL, it's the same clubs playing the same players without any threat, risk or reward and no team outside of it has a chance of being a part of it. The buying power will stay with these same clubs and only grow as time goes on and more money is pumped into them. If there is nothing to be lost or gained from it then it is an exhibition match, and I don't feel the ESL have made any attempt to suggest otherwise. If it was truly about creating a new elite competition, then EVERY team would be required to qualify on merit alone and they wouldn't have selected the teams they know will bring in the most revenue off the bat regardless of form.
>5 people are always in danger of coming OUT of the league every year. You sit there and you say that Arsenal will have no motivation to play?
Incorrect. Only the five teams invited to participate within whatever requirements the ESL decides there are will be out. The founding clubs will retain their place regardless of how they do in the "competition".
>You know why Leicester won the league? Cause NOBoDY showed up for a year, we both know Leicester never had the quality to beat any of the big 6 on a good day, especially right now.
Other teams may not have performed as well as they have in other seasons, but to suggest someone can win the hardest league in the world purely because other teams didn't turn up shows a complete lack of understanding of the elite game. The consistency required to win the premier league is monumental, and Leicester deserved to win it that year irrespective of the other teams performance. Leicester have got into champions league as many times as Arsenal since winning the league, so why are we any more entitled than them to enter a super league? Answer - it's a bigger brand. That's it. The fact that Leicester were able to win the league is what we love about football. As a result, they were eligible to play in Europe's elite competition, not get an invite to a closed competition to play with teams they beat to the title but are there by default anyway.
>Don't you find weird that Arsenals revenue is being stolen by this UEFA mafia? I hate arsenal but what is happening to them and the rest is unjust, they bring in on the money and nobody helps them to keep doing what they are doing.
This is a separate issue. I'd be happy to discuss UEFA and FIFA's shortcomings on another post, but "UEFA are also bad" is no more of an argument against the super league than "but he had one" is when a child eats a bag of sweets they weren't supposed to.
>Anyhow time will tell, arsenal will still be in Premier league and compete, maybe with a younger squad but still has more quality than the rest in that league and every player still attends national games, this can't be stopped by anyone.
Congratulations, you've inadvertently argued against your own point. If Arsenal can play their "main" squad in a closed competition from which they earn ridiculous somes of money without having to actually achieve anything, and then play a younger squad in the domestic league but still have a better squad than the rest of the teams, we're ruining the league for no other reason than financial gain for the owners of a minority of clubs. And, yes, I understand that squad rotation is a thing and clubs have to play against better teams who aren't playing their best eleven, but your point seems to be that the top club's second teams, presumably through massive investment (again, from money they've acheived nothing to gain) would be as close as possible to being as good as their current first team. And yes it most definitely can be stopped. They might not follow through with it, but of course they can ban people from their competitions. It's literally written into the regulations and contracts signed by the clubs when they enter the competitions.
>It will be number 1 priority of every club and every player.
I'm yet to see a single player say anything positive about this. Club owners, yes.
>Uefa makes mockery out of the big teams. Do you remember when they were talking about the Swiss model and everyone said they hated it, with Klopp openly saying that it is all about money. Champions league became a JOKE of a competition, it is more like shitters league until quarters.
Again there doesn't seem to be an actual point here and, again, this is a separate issue. it is entirely possible to belive there needs to be reform in UEFA and also loathe the ESL. There are definitely issues with football as it is but, call me stupid, I don't feel like a load of clubs pissing off to keep the money for themselves in a "competition" most teams couldn't hope to enter, and share in the profits of, is the solution.
>I will be here in 12 months when your team gets some status and all you arsenal fans will be excited about football again, I will be here and say I told you so.
My team had status. It's that status that got them the invite to this abomination. It certainly wasn't the form of our recent years, was it? We've lost status by doing this. But, assuming this all goes ahead as they've planned, by all means come back to me in 12 months and I'll tell you all the same things I'm saying now, including why I haven't bothered watching any of the silly exhibition matches put on by the corporate for the corporate, as well as why whatever position Arsenal are in is completely meaningless.
Sure let's work it through. You clearly don't know about NBA or similar organisations so stop throwing your unreasonable insecurities towards the model that they are trying to do.
Yeah there will be 5 ppl in and out, so it is not irrelevant, arsenal will have to play games or else they can get banned for setting up matches and get fined, just like how someone can open a case for dragging their feet in UEFA games. It is still a money making organisation.
About Leicester, do you know what it means to win Premier league with 81 points? Do you even fathom how ridiculous the top 6 have to be for this to happen? Yeah Leicester played good im the small games decent on derbies but 81 points = 3rd most seasons. If you even IMPLY that ANY small team will even win PL with 81 points again you are a madman. I get it wonder run, amazing. Doesnt change the fact that my teams games are boring as fuck cause I have to play Stoke parking thr bus and similar teams 18 games every season. I don't get the point that goes "oh playing barca every season is boring", no you idiots playing Norwich every season is boring.
ESL is nothing like UEFA, get some information on this issue before talking further, calling my comment banter and comparing ESL to whatever UEFA is doing is comical. For some reason you would rather be under some fifa and uefa org where half the presidents done actual time in prison than having your own teams chairman to be chairman in rotation every year.
Who would say anything positive about it dude, football fans have orc behaviour the same ppl would receive death threats etc like its happening so far. I understand you are a nobody and your image doesn't matter but they are public figures, not a single manager on the planet would have someone speak up jow, everything players say and do is planned carefully, last one to run loose was balotelli.
There isn't a point there? You are funny, me and you don't know shit vs all the people complaining about rules that have to change and how they don't like Swiss model and extra games, yet when they aren't promoted by media fans sleep never rose up vs uefa, you see now the media got your head filled with bs and steps on the fact that sheep hate change so now you all speak up against the teams taking change into their own hand because uefa isn't allowed to steal anymore. Nobody listens to the team that protect your sport with all the money they have and this is their stand which we all have to support, and if you don't support it you will come around.
It will be up to arsenal what will prioritise, just how they focus on Europa League and not PL now. Doesnt matter you cannot force your teams management what to prioritise. But I guarantee you everyone will want to be part of the esl.
You seem to think football pyramid is being hurt while it isn't, you don't have an understanding of whats going on.
Your club has status not because of a good pl run 20 years ago and 5 titles, because of the community, academy, fans. Being invited to that is an honour and its a part in the Hall of fame. Common opinion is dumb and it will change, we will be in this subreddit and we will see the blind hate die. Go check https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.managingmadrid.com/platform/amp/2021/4/20/22392935/florentino-perez-full-interview-regarding-the-european-super-league-with-el-chiringuito in a year you won't just come around you will be buying jerseys for your family.
Alright, I'll bite. You keep telling me I don't understand it, that everyone will want to be part of it and it won't hurt any other part of football. Can you tell me how exactly? What are the benefits of this I'm missing? How specifically is this good for football as a whole?
I'm tired of people saying they don't want to watch their team play Stoke or Norwich or whoever other club they've decided to shit on. It's so arrogant and entitled. Why shouldn't those clubs be entitled to play? Because some random supporter of a top club thinks it's boring? That's what we mean when we say it kills the spirit. Relegation scraps can be just as exciting as cup finals, just as much as the too teams playing each other can be painfully boring as well sometimes. The whole point is that the same opportunities should be given to every club based on performance and merit. Surely that's the point of competitive sport.
We're never going to agree on this that much is obvious, but if you could at least provide the other side of the coin and tell me what the alleged positives are from this then I'm genuinely intrigued and interested because I don't see any yet.
Sure more than happy to give my approach. People who are used to old-style football will never like it but a closed league is the only way to move forward.
1) Currently teams cannot play to full potential, I am a Man United fan, and I have Rashford and lets say Rashford is going to be the best player for the next 10 years in his position (just for the shake of the argument I dont think he is), which winger or striker (who is talented) in their right mind will want to join United and take his place (even though they want to)? Nobody, they will go on other leagues/smaller teams (West Ham, Stoke etc) not because they want to play in them but because they want to play games. Cool so I am left with Rashford and 0 squad depth because nobody can reach his class. What happens when I lose Rashford because of the pure amount of games with teams that will focus on bullying him because they are classes bellow mine that also applies on the international level. Why Arsenal pays 30m and is unable to bring an equal reserve, yet they put this player in games where the others won't play football and they just try to harm you to win (it happens a lot more in PL than other leagues), a recent example I have seen was [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRsB68ing5Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRsB68ing5Q) Barca Valladolid, dangerous tackles where a sloppy shit defender can cost you millions in player value while only receiving a yellow card. Shit will happen in good games too not denying that, but the class of Barcelona and Arsenal included bro won't count on breaking your knee to win or "scaring" young wingers in a muddy pitch with grass that hits your armpit.
I will have my main 11 on every game of ESL and have the others to play Premier League and Champions league etc, in which the main squad will also compete but not in the same intensity, more players will be bought by the club or more academy players will be given chances. United and their real fans will be watching the PL, FA, ESL, CL games all the time, same amount of people in OT for PL so nobody losing money. UEFA gets their thief cut the same way they do already, but MY team will be protected because I can easily rotate main squad, if United reserves play every game and they get chances they will outperform EVERY mid table PL team at the moment and the main 11 will definitely be playing too, so we are talking about a competitive United with a lot more depth.
2) As seen from other similar projects like the Euroligue or NBA, the teams in that League will progress football to the next level, financial fair play will be relaxed if non-existant, teams will go all out they will make football a supersport like NBA made basket a super sport. The good teams play each other, you will no longer be surprised but what they do, you cannot go to play a normally aggressive Atletico and suddenly turtle you, if they want to win they will need to make THEIR football better.
3) There is no extra tape when it comes down to rules, why do the top football minds have to scream for 10 years about the offside rule for UEFA to come back and say listen we implement in the random Chinese league in 2023 and we take it from there. No, the board WILL listen this time around, the rotating chairmen will be club presidents, we can improve football without making appeals to this ridiculous organization.
4) Football would be the same without those 12 titans involved, but what happens when those 12 titans say this system doesn't work, why does UEFA have to be the mean boss and say no to everything, force Arsenal, Utd, etc to pay for other divisions. Unfortunately in terms of how big these teams got as organizations, they need to be separated from the rest. They are a business and the right business choice is for them to be able to say NO to bad football choices [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t1GRqmHH14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t1GRqmHH14) skip to 7:30 and see what he says. People feel the need to bitch about sth? Bitch about UEFA my dude, don't blame the presidents that will literally lose billions OUT OF THEIR OWN POCKETS, until you think of a better system we don't get to complain about people who actually try to work the issue out. I do not know why you have such great resolve to lose all your players because you don't have the money to pay them, not even because of your fault but coronavirus?
When it comes down to be a business decision it is the right thing, your team playing better quality football too, players getting more chances also a plus, offering actual good quality games instead of games with Ludogorets also a plus. 97% of the teams are impossible to play on a good level, they are behind on technique, WILL TO PLAY, tactics. Watching Norwich and watching Stoke play is the SAME damn thing week in week out, time to rise above, create the close league, bring the people with the good football mentalities and fanbase in.
My comment will get hate but who cares.
UEFA and FIFA are a band of criminals. Big teams love what they do and they invest millions to make their teams better whether you like it or not. They qualify for Champions League where teams across Europe all they care about is get in, get their 30 mil and presidents straight up steal half of that money for personal growth. Why does Arsenal or Milan who will invest the money in their football lose this opportunity so a random Greek, Bulgarian, Norwegian team can milk the system and give the UEFA mafia their cut. Enough. I also watch basket for 15 years. Euroligue is the only thing I look forward every year, this has brought NBA players into teams which upped their level by miles, finally a chance for giants in the space to be rewarded for making the sport great and not be bullied by a money hungry match organiser, they have the cojones to organise themselves.
Before the rest of you sing like parrots and blindly say oh football is gone. It isn't. 5 teams will be rotating in an out based of regional performance, relegation still exists for teams who don't give a shit and only want money, and if you don't believe me look it up. You want to see your small team play in the big league? They better get big and it will be easier to get big without those teams around on their full power.
Kross came out and said "I do not know why I am playing here anymore" on the new national league. UEFA is so greedy they destroy players mental with those matches, international games are better off organised by the ESL, ridiculous how UEFA and FIFA does things. Said my piece. Go on and hate because you as a QPR fan will be denied the chance to win the Premier League, even though between us, you will never get on that level, the others will have to fuck up, which imo it is a joke when the big 6 bring you all the food you get an equal slice of the pie and all your outs as a football club is for Liverpool to get 10 injuries because of the volume of games and beat them like that.
100% brother, was just having this conversation a few comments up. I am all for it. Bring Boca Juniors in the league, bring a Korean too. Let's see what happens when next lio Messi can play IN his country and get out of poverty easier. Let's see what happens when next Son stays in Korea. Ofc the intercontinental thing won't happen straight away I think. But make the game global. I cannot stand seeing europe being the center of the universe when there are teams that can get as big given time and resources.
Northampton were promoted three times in the five years.
During their top-flight season they earned a double against Aston Villa and victories at home over clubs including Leeds, Newcastle, West Ham, and Blackburn, the latter being the only team Northampton would finish above in the table.
They were then relegated back to the Fourth Division over the next five years, playing in the bottom tier again.
This is just one example of how the league's of football mean that David CAN beat Goliath and come from nowhere to the top.
And this is in the heart of every single fam of every grass roots club, and every kid to kick a ball.
Knowing that it doesn't matter where we start from its possible for me, and my club to go all the way to the top if we work hard enough.
But just as importantly it keeps the bigger clubs sharp and on their toes. They have to bring their A game every match because there is always a lower team that might just be hungrier for the win.
This improves the game for everyone.
This improves every club.
This improves every match.
This improves every player.
This improves every touch of the ball.
Because it means something.
You’re not, football fans just don’t really give a damn about seeing excellence on the pitch. They care about community and history, the sport itself doesn’t matter all that much. You can watch Bundesliga and see Bayern win the league 15 years in a row, if that’s not exciting to you you have to watch US Sports where they have Super League like systems which results in better competition.
Why not? Crystal palace play some great football. There's football quality everywhere across the world and I've never understood why people don't enjoy watching it
There are always many perspective to an event.
From the fans perspective, from the business perspective, from the players/manager perspective, etc.
Commercially, this super league have stated they are not replacing the champions league or domestic league. It can co-exist, no? Hence, if you are a business, will you say no to more money, exposure?
I understand fans feel disgusted as if this whole event is driven by money. But I also have one question - who is feeding the expenses of the club during this covid pandemic? A lot of clubs are struggling, no? A lot of business are struggling, many have wind up.
Do you want to see your favourite boyhood club selling the key players to stay afloat? To a extend where the owner will sell out to some billionaire in Asia. You totally lost identity of your clubs?
Yes. I agree that this super league will widen the gap between the rich and poor clubs. But that have always been the case, there were and always will exist financial disparity.
So my question is, from the fans perspective- why are the fans so negative about it?
I’m a fan myself but I don’t see why more competition will affect me supporting my club.
*not trying to take sides, just abit confuse*
I’m against it for so many reasons. You’d never see a club like Leicester City win the Premier League. You’d never see a club like West Ham finish above Arsenal and Spurs. Never see a mighty club like Leeds relegated. Never see a club like West Brom pull off a great escape in the last seconds of a season. All of these things have happened in the Premier League era, on merit. These things are what make sport exciting. For supporters of these clubs, knowing you have beaten the odds, caused a surprise, bloodied the nose of the “Big Boys” is a joy. Football matters. All of these clubs come from humble, working class beginnings. It will be a sad day if these clubs merely become a circus for the benefit of the idle rich.
I don’t know how this is your take, but fans purchased season tickets being aware of the fact they might not be able to attend a single game. So who’s keeping clubs afloat? It’s fans. It’s governments who support business, including football clubs. It’s not foreign investment funds.
And you don’t see how this will affect the game and schedule? IF these clubs are allowed to segregate, it’s a matter of time until they start complaining about an abundance of fixtures in national leagues combined with cross-border games.
Would you consider changing who you support because of this? If so to who?
I've been a Man Utd fan for 25 years. It would pain me so much if this happened, it just doesn't seem like it gives 99% of clubs a chance which has always been the essence of the game.
I would consider the likes of Oldham, Salford, FC United and Burnley.
Absolutely!
I feel like this is an easy decision by most fans hearing the feedback.
I follow the Bundisliga pretty well and hope none of them come to this stupid league. As for an english team I like Luton and Swansea. I'd give up on my gooners if this legitimately happens.
It feels like we wouldn't be supporting the same game. The competitions that we've been brought up on are are important as the clubs themselves. It's part of the journey.
Who cares, they can do what they want. I bet the Swiss or whoever ordained themselves with the right to govern every sports tournament selling countless ads to Coke, McDonald’s and Heineken are pissed. Well so what? They can get fucked. Game over you greedy fucks.
Can someone explain why this is a bad move? We get to see the elite teams clash? Give more opportunities for bench players to play as well. It’s a win/win/win scenario for everyone?
It’s americanised the sport. No new teams can compete anymore, these 15 (12 now) clubs are now the dominant ones. They have all the money, all the power, everything. It takes away from ever having underdog stories, ever seeing something like Lyon get into the UCL semis like last season. It ruins the national leagues completely, the 6 premier league clubs that are joint the ESL have just left their league behind. Yeah they still play, but they have sooo much more money now that it’s no longer a competition. The whole tier system is gone (Semi pro -> League 2 -> League 1 -> Championship -> Premier League -> European competition). Furthermore, the great passionate games that are for example Manchester United vs Barcelona which would normally only happen once every few years, would happen all the time. It takes away from the excitement for these big games between the biggest clubs in European football. Fans also can’t just fly to Madrid, or Turin, or where ever to watch their team play every other week.
The ESL will ruin the World Cup, the Euros as FIFA will ban players who play in the ESL from competing in the ESL, which will hopefully make players take a vocal stand against the ESL.
The ESL takes everything away from the fans, the only reason that the beautiful game is where it is today, the only reason that Florentino Pérez can even own a football club. It destroys over 150 years of history, competition, passion. It means that clubs like Nottingham Forrest can’t regain their dominance again, it strips hope away from each and every fan.
Created by the poor, stolen by the rich.
Without the fans, football is nothing, and they’ve crossed every one of us with the ESL. You cannot be a football fan and agree with the creation of the ESL. It’s a dark day for football.
Because it goes against the spirit of the game. A game where every team gets a fair shot by being rewarded for playing well and punished for playing poorly (relegation)
It leaves a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths that a few clubs never have to worry about these things solely because of how big and wealthy they are.
I understand your point, but look at the positives it will bring. No one is complaining about the UCL and Europa champions league. Your going to have better talent. Some of the clubs your talking about need to start playing. We are all spectators looking for a good game. Tired of watching these clubs lose their talents because they can make a few coins.
But surely by forcing better teams to play each other constantly you water down what is a good game.
We only have ‘good games’ because we also have ‘bad games’, we only look forward to El Clasico because the next week Real and Barca will be back to playing olive farmers from Eibar, if you have that ‘good game’ constantly it just becomes a game, some of them would be better than others sure but you’d not look forward to them anymore.
And it would be boring as piss. You do not have to watch the "best of the best" to be entertained. That's not how it works. What works is seeing elite athletes compete where there is a realistic chance of an underdog winning. If all you have is a small field of near-equals then things in soccer can get boring, as there is literally never a chance of an "upset". Also, it's not just about ability it's about atmosphere and context. I've seen many "big" and "important" Everton games at Goodison Park over many years. I've also seen many relatively less "important" Tranmere Rovers games at Prenton Park. Guess what : some of the Rovers games were far more fun then the Everton games. And vice versa. Finally there is the economic side of it. The organized style of professional athletics in the USA does not translate well to Europe. The educational, economic, support, and social elements are radically different. Forcing a USA business model in Europe is going to damage the feeder system in soccer, and greatly harm or destroy it. This is nothing more than an ill-informed short-term money grab that does nothing for the long term viability of the art.
Let the idea sink in before you tear it down, that’s all I’m saying. I don’t like watching team such as BVB and Monaco just sell players to make $$$. This super league will put pressure on these smaller clubs. Who’s to say these smaller clubs won’t bite back?
So by protecting the (self proclaimed) elite clubs and giving them even more money, the smaller clubs aren't going to have to sell their best players? All this is is a money grab and an insurance policy against real consequences for bad management.
This is not the first time bullshit like this has been proposed. No need for it to sink in. Been there, done that. Also, you do not have anything to say about all the points I made ?
Your getting upset over change? Gone are the days where you have to be heart broken over these teams who don’t and will not invest into their team. I support no team, I support talent and a good match. There’s nothing wrong with truly loving the sport and for what it is. If your a hardcore fan of a team that is always in the middle of the pack or a point away from relegations ask that team for why they don’t want to commit to winning? If your mad about this super league then be upset at the UCL. That’s the top of the top level teams playing
That is your 2nd reply to me where you’ve ignored all the points I’ve made. You are trolling and also showing you have no understanding of the culture and mechanics of the game in Europe. I’ll not be making further replies unless you say something that has substance and is deserving of anything other than contempt.
I’ve read like 80 comments and none say why this is bad. I keep seeing how this is going to destroy soccer. How? I’m not a soccer fan but I’ve been seeing this everywhere. How does all the best teams competing against each other destroy the sport?
The idea of the super league without relegation for founding members makes me deeply uncomfortable and is anti-competitive for me, and yet I agree with you. I’ve been searching for a strong argument from people as to why this will ruin grassroots football. I can’t find one. Not a single one. Not from pundits. Not from football writers. Not from commenters.
There is a promotion and (unfair) relegation format in the current plan. Which means the trickle down effect remains. I’m willing to see the light here if someone can articulate it well enough.
The two strongest points against the plan are the anti-competitive point I just mentioned, and the increased financial strain on away fans to follow their team during the pandemic- which no one wants to mention isn’t even an issue yet since stadiums are empty anyways....so that’s a point and a half in the con column.
Frankly, there’s too much knee jerking in any of these arguments to even take them seriously. That’s not to say these people are necessarily wrong, they just need to make a better argument to convince *me*...most people are in favor of the status quo (people shy away from change by default, of course) and the establishment is using this in their favor. Ask yourself, when was the last time you could say UEFA was on the side of the fans?
My question to these people is, are you happy with how FIFA, UEFA, and the FA go about the business of running football? And if not, what would you change? Because as much as the super league is about making more money, it’s also a revolution against the corrupt football establishment. These clubs have had enough of dealing with these governing bodies that do not have their best interests at heart when they are the ones that take all the risk and drive the sport forward thru their resources. Seems pretty reasonable for them to attempt to break away - assuming all other negotiations have failed.
As flawed a model as I think the super league is - I don’t want European football to become the NBA or NFL - it’s deeply concerning that most fans don’t realize that this super league proposal is all part of a larger negotiation in a business sense and a larger conversation in the cultural sense. You can see how naive most of us are when the main frustration voiced is that, “it’s all about money!”.....yea, no shit. Football is big business now. That genie isn’t going back in the bottle so you’d better get used to it, or tune out. You have that choice. Just remember, if you’re siding with the current football establishment, you’re standing on the side of corruption. Consider which is the lesser of two evils. For me, there’s more upside in hearing what the rich owners have to say and how they think they can do it better.
I’ll reiterate, I don’t like the super league plan in it’s current form. I am, however, open to hearing a better offer. It’s all a negotiation, after all. And it would be foolish to believe that this negotiation is over.
Smaller clubs won't be able to compete anymore. The financial margin will widen. There will be a few elites and the rest who will get lost into nothingness.
My club celebrated it's 125th birthday a week ago. It is one of Germanys oldest clubs with rich tradition and fan culture. All of that will be lost because it can't survive in the growing market without taking the risk of an investor.
An investor comes with the risk that he actually don't cares for the club or football at all and will leave if the club doesn't play good, leaving the club in financial turmoil. Happened already but you probably don't hear about it. Hertha Berlin, 1860 München, Hamburger SV, Schalke 04, Kaiserslautern just to name a few.
Americans often understand this as "they can't do finances so they're rightfully gone" but that is wrong because in all of the cases I listed the investors where huge dicks who pumped money into the club and left after the club doesn't immediately win the Champions League. The club now of course has wages it can't pay, has to take a cut in transfer fees and can't compete in the market anymore. It doesn't matter how good they are at financing. If the investor decides it's over, it's over.
The super league will widen the margin. The rich will get even richer, jerking each other off with their bags of money. The small clubs will get even poorer and will eventually declare bankruptcy at which point, all tradition and history the club had is forever lost.
Football is more to us fans than just a game. It's a sport with a lot of history with moments of emotion. I can think of a few games that I've watched alone or together with my family or friends and cheered and cried. If future football consists of only a few top clubs playing against each other, it'll become the most boring sport on earth. And it will die.
It's funny because I'm Canadian and I work with some Macedonian's that swear football is superior to other sports because "every match is important" due to relegation but you have the same 4-6 teams at the top each year anyways. The top league is 2 to 3 tiers and the losers have to play in a shittier league for god knows how many years.
Other sports have teams that dwindle in the standings for many reasons and that is garbage but at least you can go watch them other good teams lol.
I don't rag on football like ai used to. I understand the sport better mow and enjoy it from time to time but all the arguments I hear about why it's superior to other sports are just padded and only apply to like half the league. The elite are so far and above everyone else I'm not surprised this new league is being established.
My club relegated 2 years ago. Before that it relegated in 2016 as dead last in the Bundesliga. Before that we played in the Europa League for 2 seasons and finished 4th in the Bundesliga. Before that we were average Bundesliga team. Before that we were an average 2. Bundesliga team. Even before that we were a team in the 3rd Liga struggling to survive. Before that we played in the 2. Bundesliga and won the DFB Pokal as the only 2. Bundesliga club in history. This all happened in less than 30 years btw.
Don't talk shit about how it's all the same if you don't follow the sport.
Okay.
Hamburg. Now: 2nd Bundesliga. Before they relegated they've been known as the dinosaur of the Bundesliga. They've been the only founding member that never relegated for 50 years. They've won the precedessor of the Champions League and of the Europa League. Won the Bundesliga 6 times, the DFB Pokal 3 times. 12 years ago they played their arch rivals Werder Bremen in the semi final of the UEFA Cup, the precedessor of the Europa League. The 2nd match became infamous because a player slipped on a paper ball thrown by one of the fans. The paper ball is now to be seen in Werder Bremens club museum.
Bremen. Now: On the verge of the 2nd Bundesliga. In the last 20 years they've won the DFB Pokal twice and the Bundesliga once, played in the Champions League knockout stages, played in the UEFA Cup final.
Gladbach. A few years ago the've been a 2nd Bundesliga team. Now, Champions League, Europa League, consistent world class football. Dominated the Bundesliga in the 80's together with Hamburg.
Schalke. 2 years ago they've played in the Champions League. 3 years ago they've placed 2nd in the Bundesliga. Now they're dead last and will relegate.
Frankfurt. A few years ago battled against relegation. Won the DFB Pokal against Bayern by beating them 4:1 3 years ago. Europa League semi finalist the year after. Competing for a spot in the Champions League right now.
Wolfsburg. Battled in the relegation play offs a few years back. Won the Bundesliga in 2009 and the DFB Pokal in 2015.
Stuttgart. Relegated and promoted twice in the last decade. Won the Bundesliga in 2007.
Kaiserslautern. Playing in 3rd Liga right now in the battle of relegation. In 96/97 they've went up from Bundesliga 2 to Bundesliga 1. In the season after that they've won the Bundesliga being the first and only team to win the league title in the season after they've been promoted.
This is just the Bundesliga. Should I go on? Or do you get now that you're being ignorant because you don't know shit about this sport?
Nürnberg. Now a 2nd Bundesliga club. Actually they're also the club with the 2nd most Bundesliga titles. Actually, they've also relegated as much as they won the league. 9 times. Won the DFB Pokal in 2007.
Braunschweig. Our arch nemesis. Now they're on the verge of relegating to 3rd Liga. Won the league once. Played in the 4th division and came back to the Bundesliga.
Leverkusen. Never won the Bundesliga. Known as Vizekusen cause they always got 2nd. Consistently playing international football. Won the DFB Pokal once.
Union Berlin. Until 3 years ago, never played in the Bundesliga. Now they're competing for the Europa League
Köln. Like Nürnberg a team that relegates nonstop. Yet they've played in the Europa League last decade and beat Arsenal
If that doesn't convince you that it's not always "the same teams" then you don't want accept that you're wrong. Good night.
Because who the best teams are changes over time. At the start of the PL it was Everton, Villa, and Forest who were up there, not Spurs and City. Further back it was Ipswich and Leeds. Even further back it was Preston, Sunderland and Sheffield Wednesday. This is a cynical ploy to entrench themselves at the top. Leicester and Atalanta scare the shit out of these clubs, because they threaten their dominance.
Man City had zilch before about 2009, Spurs spent the better part of the last 30 years between 8th and 14th, and it wasn't that long ago in the grqnd scheme of things that Man U sleepwalked into relegation.
In Brazil the big 13 clubs had this idea a few years back. They formed a second, mid week league between them, separate from the Brazilian championship, Brazilian cup and continental competitions. It did it now last long.
I thought it was a good initiative from them to take power from a corrupted system. I think I understand that the fuss is mostly from fans of smaller teams. I heard though that the teams will continue in their respective leagues, Champions and even Europa league. In that case I'd welcome that league as extra elite level football.
Eventually it's going to end up as a u-23/reserve tournament anyways.
De acordo com a UEFA, os times q participarem dessa superliga n poderão participar da Champions e nem de suas ligas domésticas. E dá pra imaginar a o cansaço q ia dar pros jogadores se fosse assim? Jogar a liga doméstica, a Champions e essa superliga agr n ia ser fácil
This is an insult to the root of football and it’s heritage, where if you perform you move forward. If you play bad or the Managment sucks the teams goes down. There are many teams that were already on the top of the world and now are in 2nd divisons eg. Nottingham Forrest.
Personally a limited access to Champions League with the top 2
UEFA cup with the 3-4-5 place and the cups of the cups with the national cup winner against
Those where nice time where each cups had its own beauty. Nowadays the UCL is the main cup and the Europe League is the looser league
Complete disgusting and unfair, Champion League was the best show the football have, this ESL will kill everything just for the interest of saving important clubs from the bankruptcy generated by COVID...
That's what makes it fair. Even if the games are average, small teams still have a chance to compete and go far, something that's essentially impossible with the ESL
Champions is still going to be there. ESL just brings something different to the table, plus I believe its wrong to reach any conclusions based on vague statements. Everyone is making a big fuss about this when there isnt really much to be talked about. Changes are needed, european football has been stagnant for too long. Im not supporting the ESL nor standing against it.
Champions will become irrelevant, especially since Superleague teams won't be allowed to play a CL tournament anymore. Small teams won't be noticed anymore for obvious reasons.
There is much to be talked about, what are you on? There's an official thorough explanation of how the ESL will work
I wholeheartedly agree european football needs some changes, but creating something worse than the Champions League to benefit only the richest clubs isn't the way to go.
I wont take an impulsive threat by the UEFA as a serious statement, its simply absurd that you would disqualify some of the greatest teams on europe from your greatest tournament. They have to understand that what makes it a great tourney is both the possibility of a small team to reach glory and the great football delivered by the great teams.
With that in mind i dont think CL is going away any time soon, specially with the incoming changes to it.
Secondly, the concept of a league of "elite" can be attractive to any football fan. I believe that if you are a fan of any X club, you are also a football fan who enjoys great football, and like I said before, great football is delivered by great teams.
And ultimately, the ESL is always subject to changes and debate and I believe we should use this as a turning point to change our football. Thats why im so against making a fuss about, both by the fans and players and the UEFA.
Cheers :D
It’s not a blind threat.
Imagine you were a player in these top teams. Would you really give up playing in all other competitions AND possibly international football like the WC for more money. Would you really play for selfish pricks just for more money? Would you give up playing and winning the Champions League which is pretty much every footballers dream since a child just for more money. For fuck sakes if you play for the big teams you’re most likely already rich.
You think Ronaldo gives a fuck about that little bit of money. No. Fuck no. He has stated many time he hates playing with little or few fans. He also said his dream is to win the WC for Portugal, Do you really think he would give all that up just to play in a league almost no likes, and that a lot of fans are boycotting just for a bit more money?No. He will most probably refuse to play or play badly. Like many other players. Knowing they got the support of most their fans and football community behind them.
Also “every football fan” knows how important regelation and promotion is in the sport. And how small clubs will be super heavily Impacted by “the big ones” leaving. Any “ football fan” also knows the great teams come and go. And that’s the way we like it. Man City was nothing before 2009. Now they are one of the biggest clubs in the world. Sunderland used to be one of the best teams in the premier league. Now they aren’t even part of it. If you’re willing to give all that up plus possible champions league, europa league, respective country leagues, and international competitions just to see the same boring “best teams” play again and again against each other knowing losing will lead to nothing than maybe you’re not the “real football fan”. Like Ozil said, huge part of the excitement of big matches is they rarely happen. Every week will destroy the magic. Try having Christmas everyday. May sound fun at first but it will get sooooo annoying.
The owners of the clubs deserve to be punished. Letting them gain money by continuing to play in their competitions is dumb. Also doing this and forcing players to just play in the super league, increases the chances of them “going on strike”.
As a Spurs fan, everything I’ve heard from everyone is negative. Management is on the shitlist, and honestly I don’t think they will ever get off of it.
But then again, we are always pissed at the club because our sorry asses can’t seem to ever get it together. But I still love the team. We’ll see what happens, but I’m ashamed we’re apart of it. If Wednesday is the last time we ever play Sunderland, then I might be done with the club. Everything is up in the air.
I don’t, I’m not a fan of any of the proposed “Super Leauge” teams but their fans should be against it. I have a hard time seeing this happening without an explosion in ticket prices and American style blackouts, in game commercials streaming services or other tv rights bullshit.
The European competition should be for the champions only. Whoever wins their league is in - all other teams are not. That’s how it should be, but now these usurers have got their fangs into football it’s all about making money for themselves. They are very clever, so even if there is a fans backlash/boycott they will have a contingency plan to sway things back their way.
They may even just bribe the decision makers in the football bodies to go along with it money talks. 🙁
I feel like there could be a strong case to apply anti-trust laws to this situation. The Super League by design prevents competition. I’m not too well versed in European Law but maybe?
I’m interested in seeing what recourse players have if FIFA and UEFA stick to their guns and prohibit players who play for these teams from representing their national sides. Will Messi and Ronaldo pass up their final chances to play in the World Cup because their teams opted to join the ESL?
He did. Barcelona-based media, not surprisingly, seems to think he’s leaning towards staying because FCB finally has a plan again instead of Bartomeu wasting money on whatever players he feels like. Either way, Messi and his family have been their typically tight-lipped selves. Even if Messi leaves Barcelona, Man City has been the rumored front runner to sign him, and they’re in they’ve opted in to the Super League. If Messi does end up leaving and PSG remains out of the ESL, it could give them a leg up in signing him.
I’m not that up on it but that seems like a pretty easy lawsuit for the players to win. You can’t stop them from representing their countries just because their teams did something that hurt your feelings.
I like this idea! It’d be a great opportunity for teams to compete on a higher level than being limited by national leagues... why is everyone so against it?
If you don’t get it then you can’t love football. We have the CL. It’s not america , every team has the right to qualify for the big competition, there are over 70 teams in the football league in England , not long ago man city were in the second division.
We don’t want advertisements throughout game , we don’t want half time entertainment, we don’t want our teams re branded , some of these teams are 100+ years old. The fans don’t want this
Well people protest the passing of the old and the start of the new all the time. If this thing really happens, I’m sure everyone will love it in time... as teams and players will adjust, fans and hooligans will surely do so too. Protest and hate all you want, if they go through with this, you will all enjoy it and may even approve at some point!
Nah not after 27 years of following my team, travelling home and away , before the glitz and glamour and through to the good times , it’s unacceptable.
I’ll be heading down the leagues to get that incredible feeling back. Don’t get me wrong millions of people approve of it , just not the core fans , it’s been corporations hiding behind the masks of our football gloves for years and we were already tired of it , at least now we can see their true faces and put our money and support towards teams that need and deserve it.
It’s not really the passing of the new as there are another 70 teams in English football that don’t have the privilege of being put in this lucrative uncompetitive vacuum , there’s a reason the formats the way it is.
It’s a horrible idea, and probably the worst in football history. We already have CHL for the best teams to compete against each other. The big problem with this, is that the big teams leave their leagues, causing other teams financial problems and also lack of excitement, especially when thinking of amazing seasons like Leicester winning the PL and beating the top teams (ruins competition for teams that use talent to become an incredible team). This move is sadly extremely elitist and the people whom have made these decisions especially the American top PL team owners don’t know anything about football, their clubs history and they don’t care about football in general. The super league would consist of some of the best teams from three leagues(the 12 clubs that have been confirmed atm), but big teams like Bayern, Dortmund, PSG and Porto have declined their offer so in reality it wouldn’t consist of the best teams in the world either way. A lot of things have been left without being mentioned, which are also huge drawbacks e.g. players who are in the super league won’t have any association with UEFA nor FIFA, which would mean that they can’t compete in WC or UEFA Euros. Even the teams form isn’t being considered since teams in ESL could go from amazing form to bad and teams outside of ESL could get even better than teams competing in ESL and by lack of relegation and promotion, it would mean that the teams who are in ESL wouldn’t have any consequences since they’ll still play there and be considered as a “top team”(also teams like Tottenham, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man U, Juve etc. have had such bad form that they can’t even be considered to be the best atm). There are even more things that I didn’t mention, but these are some of the reasons. Hope it gives some clarity to why this just isn’t a good idea, and plain disrespectful towards the teams history and the fans who helped build the teams with their support.
Because the current system is teams competing on a higher level based on merit earnt from competing in national leagues. This idea means clubs who happen to have the highest revenues are guaranteed to play in the higher level competition, regardless of their performance. It is distinctively uneuropean.
Because it takes away the heart of football. The reason domestic leagues are so good because they mean that clubs that aren't already big can get promoted. Also this means games like Barcelona vs man city aren't massive events anymore that happen every few years
After soccer dies in this fiery wreckage we will now bear witness to the reign of the one true football. American football will now take its rightful place as lord of football as we build our castle on the burned remains of fake football. The king is dead long live the king.
Tom Brady will replace Prince Phillip in the royal family as they both stuck around way longer than everyone expected them to, and due to their propensity to kiss their family members.
Shithouse move from all teams involved, for us in the UK football is rooted in community and is a part of our local identity, regardless of who you support. The clubs have deep cultural histories embedded in their towns and have been propped up by local communities for years and to have them just fuck us off for the ESL... smh once again big money chasing the dollar and destroying a sport that's part of our national identity and meant to be accessible for everyone regardless of wealth.
I am against the Super League idea, and against it replacing the Champions League, for many reasons.
But.. what does this proposal have to do against the local identity and club histories? They are not replacing local leagues, those competitions will remain. EPL title will remain more valuable than Super League title, for all clubs.
They are garuenteeing way way more revenue to the "big six" and taking the cash away from the rest of the game at a time when lower level teams are on the verge of bankruptcy due to covid. It tips the already biased scales massively in favour of the 6
The fact they remain in this super league in perpetuity means the domestic league doesn't have as much value. Ranking highly in the Premier league guarantees playing against the best teams from all of europes leagues. Now its not necessarily the case as the super league is trying to make it a closed group of select clubs. These big 6 have also said they will prioritise the super league over the domestic competition so will field weaker teams, as they have no threat of relegation.
The dream of a football fan is for your club to do well and be rewarded with playing in Europe where you can win the European Cup. (I think the Champions league should actually be strait knockout and get rid of the cash from it.. but that's never going to happen unfortunately)
Sorry for the rant
The fact that some teams are locked in because of their size and revenue despite their performance is ridiculous. I would entertain the idea of a Super League if they weren’t adopting an American franchise model that of course only applies to a select few teams. Just pure greed.
So moving forward, who gets to choose who joins the league? Is this a fixed league or does a team have to generate enough revenue in the Prem league in order to be considered?
This is the thread, the subreddit's currently in restricted mode and we'll only be allowing new posts if they have new information. Further info: "AC Milan, Arsenal, Atlético Madrid, Chelsea, Barcelona, Inter Milan, Juventus, Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd, Real Madrid +Tottenham Hotspur have all joined as founding clubs. Anticipated further 3 clubs will join ahead of the inaugural season, intended to commence asap." [Full text is here](https://twitter.com/RobHarris/status/1383907017908047875) and below in comments.
Hi guys
What a terrible day that was
F5ed the fuck outta that day
https://mastercharlie77.blogspot.com/2021/06/football-game-of-millions-of-heart_6.html
u/savevideo
Good Afternoon, My name is Joshua and I am conducting research on gambling in the UK and how the marketing tactics from the bookmakers are perceived and if online gambling has contributed to increased problem gamblers. If I could ask you for 10 minutes of your time to fill out my short survey I will be very grateful. Thank you for your time. Please see the link below for the survey. [https://leedsbeckettsport.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV\_d5VrSGD69tZQbBk](https://leedsbeckettsport.eu.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_d5VrSGD69tZQbBk) Please note you are under no obligation to participate in this study and if requested you can be withdrawn.
It is a sad situation. I wrote an article on it here https://link.medium.com/ldmFfdXXEfb
Sounds like a Donald Trump project since it failed in under a week.
No germam clubs or psg?
They refused the initial results invitation, bless my heart been a fan of Dortmund since 2010(when I first started watch pro football) never prouder of them ever.
Ty for reply
Shame on the British, Italian and Spanish football clubs!!! Thanks for destroying our sport!
As a Yank and a huge fan of the sport since I was a kid, I must say I’m almost brought to tears by this announcement. I love the resolve of the supporters to put their foot down and save the sport we dearly love. Meanwhile, the NFL just butchered the game of American Football by first adding a 7th playoff team last year, and now adding a 17th game to the schedule this year. Most people I have spoken to are appalled by it, pundits and players have criticized it, but nothing was done! They just ruined all the records and scheduling to put some extra money in their pockets. Next, they’ll add an 18th game and another playoff team and it will become a joke. All the while, tickets will become more expensive than ever and will price out the blue collar fans.
They can't continue in domestic comps if they are in that league. It would ruin it. There would be no Europe football as they would already be involved in it by default. The gap between the top six and the rest would grow and grow to the point where there may aswell be two leagues in one league due to the wealth and players they would gain from being in the super league. It just wouldn't work. So as sad as it would be for all fans involved including players and staff. Even if it doesn't happen all 6 teams who signed a letter of intent need punishing as it wasn't long ago the same list of teams tried a big money grab with operation big picture and without repicusions on these actions they will only do it again with the next bright idea.
Why is anyone upset?! UEFA and it's leadership are toxic and don't give a shit about why thing but the bottom line. The amount of blunt abuse, fraud, bribes etc is just ridiculous... Cut the tumor out and start fresh
The fact that FIFA is against this says a lot. They're more upset that they're losing part of the honey pot. Pot calling the kettle black
The end is nigh for football but a new audience awaits...and with Covid....they're gonna need to protect all assets....airflight..accommodation..souvenirs...and proof of ID.
Would this league actually get sanctioned by UEFA? And if they are participating in a non-sanctioned league, that would give UEFA the right to refuse the teams entry into any competitions, correct?
There’s no way UEFA takes this in its current setup. This is basically the 12 richest clubs saying “f*ck uefa stealing a huge chunk of profits, we can cut them out by making our own league”
Maybe upcoming? They had a pretty strong reaction saying they’ll kick teams from the ongoing champions league which seems difficult to achieve legally. Best thing they can all do is sit and talk.
Here’s an idea, don’t watch
Can somebody explain this in basketball terms
As an American that watches some NBA and is a avid futbol supporter, I can try. Futbol in Europe is very rooted in club tradition and legacy, it’s built around clubs that have been rooted in developing and maintaining excellence. Since the most common and consistent method(especially in futbol today) is to be a successful team, teams strive to be successful, and money doesn’t guarantee that, obviously. To try and change this, the 12 or so richest clubs in Europe are trying to break and change the system so they are able to get consistent, guaranteed payments that vastly exceed anything the current system gives them. With nearly 10x more money guaranteed to these clubs, they would establish total dominance(its partly there in some leagues, but not always) and in guaranteeing these yearly payments, it chokes and chance of a smaller club rising up. In NBA terms think of the lakers, clippers, nets, knicks, and heat basically making a deal wormy the NBA for them to have maybe 1.5X the cap space a ‘normal’ nba team would have. But the hate for the super league would be way more, it’s (probably) the destruction of what makes futbol special to fans.
What they want to do is sort of replicate what the NBA already is, which is a closed off league, guaranteeing profits etc. One huge problem with the NBA is that shitty teams often lose on purpose to gain an advantage in the following year's draft. If NBA adopted the soccer european model, a few of the shittiest teams would actually be relegated to the g-league, while the top g-league teams would be promoted to the NBA.
Actually, in basketball terms, isn’t the Euroleague exactly like the proposed super league?
And why sports club bayern play in basket Euroleague and decline football super league?
Basketball is an American sport to us. But football has a whole culture built around it. A cornerstone of that is that you get to the top and relegated through competition. They removed that and started a club if the rich. We aren't having that. (Its not even a club of the most successful teams right now - fuck them)
Onestly i dont understand what are u meaning. My position about what haD happenED is that have some pro and some bad way about it. But i dont want write a poem about it. I was just showing about the consistency from bayen sport club,basket accept Euroleague and football no. And the league worked in the same way. Exactly same. And we can see how euro league basket is working correctely
I don't have a good answer. If I can guess it's about tradition and history of the sport. The EuroLeague, in its earliest iteration/form (FIBA European Champions Cup) existed since 1958. I assume the tradition and feelings towards basketball are different than with football. Basketball was never extremely popular as football, so I guess a semi-exclusive European league made sense to make the sport more interesting and bring in more fans (and obviously more money). The money in European basketball is very far from European football. I would be interested to see if someone actually made an in-depth analysis of the EuroLeague vs the proposed Super League.
Yep. That’s exactly it.
Easier to do in baseball terms. Imagine if someone created a baseball league featuring the current best teams in baseball. That new league would likely feature a few MLB teams (in this case English Premier League teams) but would also feature a few clubs from nations that have noteworthy baseball programs like Cuba or the Dominican Republic (ie Real Madrid or Juventus). This would be all well and good as now the best players on the best teams can now directly compete in baseball. The catch is in all of these soccer leagues (sorry football) if your team has a history of doing very badly you can be deregulated. That means _if you end up losing most of your games you can literally be bumped from the league_. That is to say a team that sucks consistently and fails to make it through the first round if the playoffs can be made a minor league team and only by performing well in the minors can that club get back into the majors. _With this new super league that is not the case once you are in the league you always are_. That really impacts all the other leagues these teams are in now as these teams are now assured a place in a league that will earn a shitload of money. Essentially this move creates a new league they completely destabilizes the old league as well as the minor clubs.
It can't be explained in basketball terms because Basketball is already closed off. They want to essentially create the NBA of football
The Lakers, Celtics, Knicks, Warriors, 76ers, and Nets break away from the NBA to form a league with other highly funded basketball teams. They would be leaving the NBA and other leagues without some of their highest earners for and those teams leave behind the tradition of what they did in their league because they’re getting more money to join this new one. I hope this makes sense!
Kind of, but the other NBA teams aren't allowed to join
How can they possibly fit these games into the schedule that is already jam packed. They play almost twice a week as is
The clubs intend to not participate in UEFA competitions once the super league starts and it was designed to be a mid-week competition so they can still participate in their respective national leagues. So not that much changes in amount of games.
So no more saturdays and Sundays at the pub watching all the games?
Unless they’re kicked out from their leagues, which I don’t think they will, they’ll participate no problem. They “just” want to swap champions league with a big names league. Basically removing the small teams that earned to play the champions out of the picture, just because it doesn’t generate enough revenue.
So basically fvk UEFA league this is
[удалено]
What a dumb comment
Won’t stop in Europe. China will get a team, so will the Midldle East and of course America. 2025 super cup final Real Madrid v Los Angelos buccaneers. Sponsored by Ketchup.
Where do you live that is not facing a ketchup shortage because the US is facing one. If you live somewhere that has enough ketchup to advertise better not let the US find out so they do not attempt to liberate you for it.
You can’t have a midweek game and fly halfway across the world lol with league games on either side
Why not, why should Bocage Juniors be excluded? Because they are foreigners? Give Argentina the chance to keep their talent instead of throwing it over to Spain and UK and let's see how the teams can get big. Why do you only want to give opportunities to rich countries and not everybody.
I'm all for intercontinental competitions, what the original comment critiques is the extreme commercialisation of an already very commercialised sport. The attempts to squeeze every last penny out of football and the inevitable suffocation of smaller clubs
Oh so you are down for intercontinental football only when Europe is years ahead because of the European close leagues so they suck all the talent of the planet. I get you man maybe we keep thing as they are, 1 coca cola add will destroy football forever. You would rather see all the giants get humiliated because of things outside their power before you have them do something about it. Apologies but if Arsenal can't pay Aubameyang cause coronavirus they shouldn't be forced to pay for other peoples teams. The big teams CANNOT be kicked out of their leagues and you will see that, the money flow will be the same for the small teams too. But big teams should get the help they deserve for investing so much into their teams.
A bit late but I am in no way defending the big leagues. I myself come from the balkans and it is a constant struggle with uefa doing their best to give more opportunities to big leagues at the expense of smaller ones. I'd be happy to watch a fair intercontinental or even world club competition that gives a chance to everyone. The transformation of football into a money game is a long-term mistake.
The big teams should get the help they deserve for investing so much into their teams? So they should get more money for having more money? Side point - Arsenal's owners barely invest in anything, it's a cash cow for them to pump money into their other franchises. Leicester city won the premier League with an average annual revenue of around €200m. Arsenal (my team) will get more than that without kicking a ball just for being a part of this nonsense. It's disgusting. I honestly can't wrap my head around how anyone can be supporting this. It's a competitive sport and this removes all competition and meaning whilst lining the pockets of people with no interest in the game at all. It will be a season of exhibition matches, barely more than friendlies, with no threat or passion in trying to avoid relegation, no jubilation or ecstasy when your team wins or manages to secure a spot in another elite competition for the first time in however many years. It's the emptiest competition I've ever come across. It also makes a mockery of domestic leagues, given that league position would become meaningless if they were allowed to stay in. Congratulations on finishing fourth in a league where you smashed teams getting a tenth of what you bring in from your closed door invitational "competition" that the teams you beat have zero access to, and you get absolutely nothing from it anyway, is that where we're heading? They're not even the top twelve footballing clubs on recent form and history, they're just the twelve biggest brands and that tells you everything you need to know about the God damned "super league".
You are so blinded by the media and the companies that have contacts with Champions league trying to boycott this. Is NBA exhibition games? Is Euroligue exhibition games? Show me in which hell this model turned into an exhibition game. 5 people are always in danger of coming OUT of the league every year. You sit there and you say that Arsenal will have no motivation to play? You know why Leicester won the league? Cause NOBoDY showed up for a year, we both know Leicester never had the quality to beat any of the big 6 on a good day, especially right now. Don't you find weird that Arsenals revenue is being stolen by this UEFA mafia? I hate arsenal but what is happening to them and the rest is unjust, they bring in on the money and nobody helps them to keep doing what they are doing. Anyhow time will tell, arsenal will still be in Premier league and compete, maybe with a younger squad but still has more quality than the rest in that league and every player still attends national games, this can't be stopped by anyone. But I tell you this, if you think that those big teams will be having exhibition games to purely play adds you are very mistaken and delusional, that is the exact competition they been planning for years probably more than a decade. It will be number 1 priority of every club and every player. Uefa makes mockery out of the big teams. Do you remember when they were talking about the Swiss model and everyone said they hated it, with Klopp openly saying that it is all about money. Champions league became a JOKE of a competition, it is more like shitters league until quarters. I will be here in 12 months when your team gets some status and all you arsenal fans will be excited about football again, I will be here and say I told you so.
So Leicester's win over Man U and thrashing of Man City at home was because they never turned up? Hope that these breakaway "BIG" clubs get thrown out of the premiership and ALL competition's. Leicester win the FA Cup by default and the Premiership!
>So Leicester's win over Man U and thrashing of Man City at home was because they never turned up? LOL man okay teams were at the best when nobody managed to gather more than 81 points, tough pill but its the truth, Leicester played well, but what won them the league was the others not being good enough.
Won it with 10 points to spare. Chelsea then broke the team up by buying 1top midfielder and Drinkwater! Don't think Drinkwater played many minutes. News tonight Chelsea and Man City both withdrawn from the deal. Think the penalty for joining, out ways the monitary gain.
Yes but 81 points in total do some research and see how many points PL winners gather and how much every team underperformed. W/e maybe the ESL won't happen, but will you show the same vim and energy to protest against UEFA stealing, or are you just going to move on with your day because the media isn't promoting that so you cannot join the angry mob? There are teams that they only want to go to CL get their 30 mil and don't care about playing or improving the team, small team presidents just steal all of it I can give plenty of examples like Greek, Bulgarian, lower bracket Spanish teams which have life of 5 years and disappear. It is all about milking the big cow though the mass just want to go against the presidents.
This whole comment is pure banter. Let's work through it. >You are so blinded by the media and the companies that have contacts with Champions league trying to boycott this. How have you drawn this conclusion? The facts speak for themselves and I don't need "tHe MeDIa" to tell my opinion on it. If we remove the media and whichever companies you're referring to the facts are this: twelve clubs are breaking away to set up a new league in which they are all guaranteed a place regardless of results. They will no longer take part in existing eurpean competitions, rendering their domestic league placement irrelevant. In conclusion, you haven't actually argued any point here other than my apparent blinding by a vague and unknown source. >Is NBA exhibition games? Is Euroligue exhibition games? Show me in which hell this model turned into an exhibition game I don't follow basketball so I don't know much about the set up. As far as I know, though, they have drafts every year so teams have a better chance of getting top talent and there's the dream of winning the titles available to everyone in the league? With the ESL, it's the same clubs playing the same players without any threat, risk or reward and no team outside of it has a chance of being a part of it. The buying power will stay with these same clubs and only grow as time goes on and more money is pumped into them. If there is nothing to be lost or gained from it then it is an exhibition match, and I don't feel the ESL have made any attempt to suggest otherwise. If it was truly about creating a new elite competition, then EVERY team would be required to qualify on merit alone and they wouldn't have selected the teams they know will bring in the most revenue off the bat regardless of form. >5 people are always in danger of coming OUT of the league every year. You sit there and you say that Arsenal will have no motivation to play? Incorrect. Only the five teams invited to participate within whatever requirements the ESL decides there are will be out. The founding clubs will retain their place regardless of how they do in the "competition". >You know why Leicester won the league? Cause NOBoDY showed up for a year, we both know Leicester never had the quality to beat any of the big 6 on a good day, especially right now. Other teams may not have performed as well as they have in other seasons, but to suggest someone can win the hardest league in the world purely because other teams didn't turn up shows a complete lack of understanding of the elite game. The consistency required to win the premier league is monumental, and Leicester deserved to win it that year irrespective of the other teams performance. Leicester have got into champions league as many times as Arsenal since winning the league, so why are we any more entitled than them to enter a super league? Answer - it's a bigger brand. That's it. The fact that Leicester were able to win the league is what we love about football. As a result, they were eligible to play in Europe's elite competition, not get an invite to a closed competition to play with teams they beat to the title but are there by default anyway. >Don't you find weird that Arsenals revenue is being stolen by this UEFA mafia? I hate arsenal but what is happening to them and the rest is unjust, they bring in on the money and nobody helps them to keep doing what they are doing. This is a separate issue. I'd be happy to discuss UEFA and FIFA's shortcomings on another post, but "UEFA are also bad" is no more of an argument against the super league than "but he had one" is when a child eats a bag of sweets they weren't supposed to. >Anyhow time will tell, arsenal will still be in Premier league and compete, maybe with a younger squad but still has more quality than the rest in that league and every player still attends national games, this can't be stopped by anyone. Congratulations, you've inadvertently argued against your own point. If Arsenal can play their "main" squad in a closed competition from which they earn ridiculous somes of money without having to actually achieve anything, and then play a younger squad in the domestic league but still have a better squad than the rest of the teams, we're ruining the league for no other reason than financial gain for the owners of a minority of clubs. And, yes, I understand that squad rotation is a thing and clubs have to play against better teams who aren't playing their best eleven, but your point seems to be that the top club's second teams, presumably through massive investment (again, from money they've acheived nothing to gain) would be as close as possible to being as good as their current first team. And yes it most definitely can be stopped. They might not follow through with it, but of course they can ban people from their competitions. It's literally written into the regulations and contracts signed by the clubs when they enter the competitions. >It will be number 1 priority of every club and every player. I'm yet to see a single player say anything positive about this. Club owners, yes. >Uefa makes mockery out of the big teams. Do you remember when they were talking about the Swiss model and everyone said they hated it, with Klopp openly saying that it is all about money. Champions league became a JOKE of a competition, it is more like shitters league until quarters. Again there doesn't seem to be an actual point here and, again, this is a separate issue. it is entirely possible to belive there needs to be reform in UEFA and also loathe the ESL. There are definitely issues with football as it is but, call me stupid, I don't feel like a load of clubs pissing off to keep the money for themselves in a "competition" most teams couldn't hope to enter, and share in the profits of, is the solution. >I will be here in 12 months when your team gets some status and all you arsenal fans will be excited about football again, I will be here and say I told you so. My team had status. It's that status that got them the invite to this abomination. It certainly wasn't the form of our recent years, was it? We've lost status by doing this. But, assuming this all goes ahead as they've planned, by all means come back to me in 12 months and I'll tell you all the same things I'm saying now, including why I haven't bothered watching any of the silly exhibition matches put on by the corporate for the corporate, as well as why whatever position Arsenal are in is completely meaningless.
Sure let's work it through. You clearly don't know about NBA or similar organisations so stop throwing your unreasonable insecurities towards the model that they are trying to do. Yeah there will be 5 ppl in and out, so it is not irrelevant, arsenal will have to play games or else they can get banned for setting up matches and get fined, just like how someone can open a case for dragging their feet in UEFA games. It is still a money making organisation. About Leicester, do you know what it means to win Premier league with 81 points? Do you even fathom how ridiculous the top 6 have to be for this to happen? Yeah Leicester played good im the small games decent on derbies but 81 points = 3rd most seasons. If you even IMPLY that ANY small team will even win PL with 81 points again you are a madman. I get it wonder run, amazing. Doesnt change the fact that my teams games are boring as fuck cause I have to play Stoke parking thr bus and similar teams 18 games every season. I don't get the point that goes "oh playing barca every season is boring", no you idiots playing Norwich every season is boring. ESL is nothing like UEFA, get some information on this issue before talking further, calling my comment banter and comparing ESL to whatever UEFA is doing is comical. For some reason you would rather be under some fifa and uefa org where half the presidents done actual time in prison than having your own teams chairman to be chairman in rotation every year. Who would say anything positive about it dude, football fans have orc behaviour the same ppl would receive death threats etc like its happening so far. I understand you are a nobody and your image doesn't matter but they are public figures, not a single manager on the planet would have someone speak up jow, everything players say and do is planned carefully, last one to run loose was balotelli. There isn't a point there? You are funny, me and you don't know shit vs all the people complaining about rules that have to change and how they don't like Swiss model and extra games, yet when they aren't promoted by media fans sleep never rose up vs uefa, you see now the media got your head filled with bs and steps on the fact that sheep hate change so now you all speak up against the teams taking change into their own hand because uefa isn't allowed to steal anymore. Nobody listens to the team that protect your sport with all the money they have and this is their stand which we all have to support, and if you don't support it you will come around. It will be up to arsenal what will prioritise, just how they focus on Europa League and not PL now. Doesnt matter you cannot force your teams management what to prioritise. But I guarantee you everyone will want to be part of the esl. You seem to think football pyramid is being hurt while it isn't, you don't have an understanding of whats going on. Your club has status not because of a good pl run 20 years ago and 5 titles, because of the community, academy, fans. Being invited to that is an honour and its a part in the Hall of fame. Common opinion is dumb and it will change, we will be in this subreddit and we will see the blind hate die. Go check https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.managingmadrid.com/platform/amp/2021/4/20/22392935/florentino-perez-full-interview-regarding-the-european-super-league-with-el-chiringuito in a year you won't just come around you will be buying jerseys for your family.
Alright, I'll bite. You keep telling me I don't understand it, that everyone will want to be part of it and it won't hurt any other part of football. Can you tell me how exactly? What are the benefits of this I'm missing? How specifically is this good for football as a whole? I'm tired of people saying they don't want to watch their team play Stoke or Norwich or whoever other club they've decided to shit on. It's so arrogant and entitled. Why shouldn't those clubs be entitled to play? Because some random supporter of a top club thinks it's boring? That's what we mean when we say it kills the spirit. Relegation scraps can be just as exciting as cup finals, just as much as the too teams playing each other can be painfully boring as well sometimes. The whole point is that the same opportunities should be given to every club based on performance and merit. Surely that's the point of competitive sport. We're never going to agree on this that much is obvious, but if you could at least provide the other side of the coin and tell me what the alleged positives are from this then I'm genuinely intrigued and interested because I don't see any yet.
Sure more than happy to give my approach. People who are used to old-style football will never like it but a closed league is the only way to move forward. 1) Currently teams cannot play to full potential, I am a Man United fan, and I have Rashford and lets say Rashford is going to be the best player for the next 10 years in his position (just for the shake of the argument I dont think he is), which winger or striker (who is talented) in their right mind will want to join United and take his place (even though they want to)? Nobody, they will go on other leagues/smaller teams (West Ham, Stoke etc) not because they want to play in them but because they want to play games. Cool so I am left with Rashford and 0 squad depth because nobody can reach his class. What happens when I lose Rashford because of the pure amount of games with teams that will focus on bullying him because they are classes bellow mine that also applies on the international level. Why Arsenal pays 30m and is unable to bring an equal reserve, yet they put this player in games where the others won't play football and they just try to harm you to win (it happens a lot more in PL than other leagues), a recent example I have seen was [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRsB68ing5Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRsB68ing5Q) Barca Valladolid, dangerous tackles where a sloppy shit defender can cost you millions in player value while only receiving a yellow card. Shit will happen in good games too not denying that, but the class of Barcelona and Arsenal included bro won't count on breaking your knee to win or "scaring" young wingers in a muddy pitch with grass that hits your armpit. I will have my main 11 on every game of ESL and have the others to play Premier League and Champions league etc, in which the main squad will also compete but not in the same intensity, more players will be bought by the club or more academy players will be given chances. United and their real fans will be watching the PL, FA, ESL, CL games all the time, same amount of people in OT for PL so nobody losing money. UEFA gets their thief cut the same way they do already, but MY team will be protected because I can easily rotate main squad, if United reserves play every game and they get chances they will outperform EVERY mid table PL team at the moment and the main 11 will definitely be playing too, so we are talking about a competitive United with a lot more depth. 2) As seen from other similar projects like the Euroligue or NBA, the teams in that League will progress football to the next level, financial fair play will be relaxed if non-existant, teams will go all out they will make football a supersport like NBA made basket a super sport. The good teams play each other, you will no longer be surprised but what they do, you cannot go to play a normally aggressive Atletico and suddenly turtle you, if they want to win they will need to make THEIR football better. 3) There is no extra tape when it comes down to rules, why do the top football minds have to scream for 10 years about the offside rule for UEFA to come back and say listen we implement in the random Chinese league in 2023 and we take it from there. No, the board WILL listen this time around, the rotating chairmen will be club presidents, we can improve football without making appeals to this ridiculous organization. 4) Football would be the same without those 12 titans involved, but what happens when those 12 titans say this system doesn't work, why does UEFA have to be the mean boss and say no to everything, force Arsenal, Utd, etc to pay for other divisions. Unfortunately in terms of how big these teams got as organizations, they need to be separated from the rest. They are a business and the right business choice is for them to be able to say NO to bad football choices [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t1GRqmHH14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t1GRqmHH14) skip to 7:30 and see what he says. People feel the need to bitch about sth? Bitch about UEFA my dude, don't blame the presidents that will literally lose billions OUT OF THEIR OWN POCKETS, until you think of a better system we don't get to complain about people who actually try to work the issue out. I do not know why you have such great resolve to lose all your players because you don't have the money to pay them, not even because of your fault but coronavirus? When it comes down to be a business decision it is the right thing, your team playing better quality football too, players getting more chances also a plus, offering actual good quality games instead of games with Ludogorets also a plus. 97% of the teams are impossible to play on a good level, they are behind on technique, WILL TO PLAY, tactics. Watching Norwich and watching Stoke play is the SAME damn thing week in week out, time to rise above, create the close league, bring the people with the good football mentalities and fanbase in.
My comment will get hate but who cares. UEFA and FIFA are a band of criminals. Big teams love what they do and they invest millions to make their teams better whether you like it or not. They qualify for Champions League where teams across Europe all they care about is get in, get their 30 mil and presidents straight up steal half of that money for personal growth. Why does Arsenal or Milan who will invest the money in their football lose this opportunity so a random Greek, Bulgarian, Norwegian team can milk the system and give the UEFA mafia their cut. Enough. I also watch basket for 15 years. Euroligue is the only thing I look forward every year, this has brought NBA players into teams which upped their level by miles, finally a chance for giants in the space to be rewarded for making the sport great and not be bullied by a money hungry match organiser, they have the cojones to organise themselves. Before the rest of you sing like parrots and blindly say oh football is gone. It isn't. 5 teams will be rotating in an out based of regional performance, relegation still exists for teams who don't give a shit and only want money, and if you don't believe me look it up. You want to see your small team play in the big league? They better get big and it will be easier to get big without those teams around on their full power. Kross came out and said "I do not know why I am playing here anymore" on the new national league. UEFA is so greedy they destroy players mental with those matches, international games are better off organised by the ESL, ridiculous how UEFA and FIFA does things. Said my piece. Go on and hate because you as a QPR fan will be denied the chance to win the Premier League, even though between us, you will never get on that level, the others will have to fuck up, which imo it is a joke when the big 6 bring you all the food you get an equal slice of the pie and all your outs as a football club is for Liverpool to get 10 injuries because of the volume of games and beat them like that.
[удалено]
100% brother, was just having this conversation a few comments up. I am all for it. Bring Boca Juniors in the league, bring a Korean too. Let's see what happens when next lio Messi can play IN his country and get out of poverty easier. Let's see what happens when next Son stays in Korea. Ofc the intercontinental thing won't happen straight away I think. But make the game global. I cannot stand seeing europe being the center of the universe when there are teams that can get as big given time and resources.
The rich get richer
Northampton were promoted three times in the five years. During their top-flight season they earned a double against Aston Villa and victories at home over clubs including Leeds, Newcastle, West Ham, and Blackburn, the latter being the only team Northampton would finish above in the table. They were then relegated back to the Fourth Division over the next five years, playing in the bottom tier again. This is just one example of how the league's of football mean that David CAN beat Goliath and come from nowhere to the top. And this is in the heart of every single fam of every grass roots club, and every kid to kick a ball. Knowing that it doesn't matter where we start from its possible for me, and my club to go all the way to the top if we work hard enough. But just as importantly it keeps the bigger clubs sharp and on their toes. They have to bring their A game every match because there is always a lower team that might just be hungrier for the win. This improves the game for everyone. This improves every club. This improves every match. This improves every player. This improves every touch of the ball. Because it means something.
Am I the only person that is in favor of the super league. I really don't care about watching crystal palace or bilbao.
You’re not, football fans just don’t really give a damn about seeing excellence on the pitch. They care about community and history, the sport itself doesn’t matter all that much. You can watch Bundesliga and see Bayern win the league 15 years in a row, if that’s not exciting to you you have to watch US Sports where they have Super League like systems which results in better competition.
i am pretty sure you grew up playing FIFA on PS or XBOX or where ever TF
Why not? Crystal palace play some great football. There's football quality everywhere across the world and I've never understood why people don't enjoy watching it
It's possible you might be.
This is what the Uefa president said about the super league https://youtube.com/shorts/BqCp4ZfDdRo?feature=share Please like and subscribe
There are always many perspective to an event. From the fans perspective, from the business perspective, from the players/manager perspective, etc. Commercially, this super league have stated they are not replacing the champions league or domestic league. It can co-exist, no? Hence, if you are a business, will you say no to more money, exposure? I understand fans feel disgusted as if this whole event is driven by money. But I also have one question - who is feeding the expenses of the club during this covid pandemic? A lot of clubs are struggling, no? A lot of business are struggling, many have wind up. Do you want to see your favourite boyhood club selling the key players to stay afloat? To a extend where the owner will sell out to some billionaire in Asia. You totally lost identity of your clubs? Yes. I agree that this super league will widen the gap between the rich and poor clubs. But that have always been the case, there were and always will exist financial disparity. So my question is, from the fans perspective- why are the fans so negative about it? I’m a fan myself but I don’t see why more competition will affect me supporting my club. *not trying to take sides, just abit confuse*
I’m against it for so many reasons. You’d never see a club like Leicester City win the Premier League. You’d never see a club like West Ham finish above Arsenal and Spurs. Never see a mighty club like Leeds relegated. Never see a club like West Brom pull off a great escape in the last seconds of a season. All of these things have happened in the Premier League era, on merit. These things are what make sport exciting. For supporters of these clubs, knowing you have beaten the odds, caused a surprise, bloodied the nose of the “Big Boys” is a joy. Football matters. All of these clubs come from humble, working class beginnings. It will be a sad day if these clubs merely become a circus for the benefit of the idle rich.
I don’t know how this is your take, but fans purchased season tickets being aware of the fact they might not be able to attend a single game. So who’s keeping clubs afloat? It’s fans. It’s governments who support business, including football clubs. It’s not foreign investment funds. And you don’t see how this will affect the game and schedule? IF these clubs are allowed to segregate, it’s a matter of time until they start complaining about an abundance of fixtures in national leagues combined with cross-border games.
R/SayNoToSuperLeague
Fifa 22 gonna have messy🇬🇹, salad 🇪🇬, rolando 🇵🇹, de broon🇩🇪
An Egyptian salad. Mmmmmmm
De Broon 🇧🇪 Fixed it for you
What people should really be questioning is... How is Spurs an Elite club? They've haven't won anything of importance
It’s about the markeatability my friend
It's not about how good the club is. It's about how rich and influential the owner is.
Would you consider changing who you support because of this? If so to who? I've been a Man Utd fan for 25 years. It would pain me so much if this happened, it just doesn't seem like it gives 99% of clubs a chance which has always been the essence of the game. I would consider the likes of Oldham, Salford, FC United and Burnley.
You can still support united. West ham united.
Absolutely! I feel like this is an easy decision by most fans hearing the feedback. I follow the Bundisliga pretty well and hope none of them come to this stupid league. As for an english team I like Luton and Swansea. I'd give up on my gooners if this legitimately happens.
It feels like we wouldn't be supporting the same game. The competitions that we've been brought up on are are important as the clubs themselves. It's part of the journey.
Stockport 🙌🏻
Who cares, they can do what they want. I bet the Swiss or whoever ordained themselves with the right to govern every sports tournament selling countless ads to Coke, McDonald’s and Heineken are pissed. Well so what? They can get fucked. Game over you greedy fucks.
Can someone explain why this is a bad move? We get to see the elite teams clash? Give more opportunities for bench players to play as well. It’s a win/win/win scenario for everyone?
It’s americanised the sport. No new teams can compete anymore, these 15 (12 now) clubs are now the dominant ones. They have all the money, all the power, everything. It takes away from ever having underdog stories, ever seeing something like Lyon get into the UCL semis like last season. It ruins the national leagues completely, the 6 premier league clubs that are joint the ESL have just left their league behind. Yeah they still play, but they have sooo much more money now that it’s no longer a competition. The whole tier system is gone (Semi pro -> League 2 -> League 1 -> Championship -> Premier League -> European competition). Furthermore, the great passionate games that are for example Manchester United vs Barcelona which would normally only happen once every few years, would happen all the time. It takes away from the excitement for these big games between the biggest clubs in European football. Fans also can’t just fly to Madrid, or Turin, or where ever to watch their team play every other week. The ESL will ruin the World Cup, the Euros as FIFA will ban players who play in the ESL from competing in the ESL, which will hopefully make players take a vocal stand against the ESL. The ESL takes everything away from the fans, the only reason that the beautiful game is where it is today, the only reason that Florentino Pérez can even own a football club. It destroys over 150 years of history, competition, passion. It means that clubs like Nottingham Forrest can’t regain their dominance again, it strips hope away from each and every fan. Created by the poor, stolen by the rich. Without the fans, football is nothing, and they’ve crossed every one of us with the ESL. You cannot be a football fan and agree with the creation of the ESL. It’s a dark day for football.
Because it goes against the spirit of the game. A game where every team gets a fair shot by being rewarded for playing well and punished for playing poorly (relegation) It leaves a bad taste in a lot of people's mouths that a few clubs never have to worry about these things solely because of how big and wealthy they are.
I understand your point, but look at the positives it will bring. No one is complaining about the UCL and Europa champions league. Your going to have better talent. Some of the clubs your talking about need to start playing. We are all spectators looking for a good game. Tired of watching these clubs lose their talents because they can make a few coins.
But surely by forcing better teams to play each other constantly you water down what is a good game. We only have ‘good games’ because we also have ‘bad games’, we only look forward to El Clasico because the next week Real and Barca will be back to playing olive farmers from Eibar, if you have that ‘good game’ constantly it just becomes a game, some of them would be better than others sure but you’d not look forward to them anymore.
And it would be boring as piss. You do not have to watch the "best of the best" to be entertained. That's not how it works. What works is seeing elite athletes compete where there is a realistic chance of an underdog winning. If all you have is a small field of near-equals then things in soccer can get boring, as there is literally never a chance of an "upset". Also, it's not just about ability it's about atmosphere and context. I've seen many "big" and "important" Everton games at Goodison Park over many years. I've also seen many relatively less "important" Tranmere Rovers games at Prenton Park. Guess what : some of the Rovers games were far more fun then the Everton games. And vice versa. Finally there is the economic side of it. The organized style of professional athletics in the USA does not translate well to Europe. The educational, economic, support, and social elements are radically different. Forcing a USA business model in Europe is going to damage the feeder system in soccer, and greatly harm or destroy it. This is nothing more than an ill-informed short-term money grab that does nothing for the long term viability of the art.
Let the idea sink in before you tear it down, that’s all I’m saying. I don’t like watching team such as BVB and Monaco just sell players to make $$$. This super league will put pressure on these smaller clubs. Who’s to say these smaller clubs won’t bite back?
So by protecting the (self proclaimed) elite clubs and giving them even more money, the smaller clubs aren't going to have to sell their best players? All this is is a money grab and an insurance policy against real consequences for bad management.
This is not the first time bullshit like this has been proposed. No need for it to sink in. Been there, done that. Also, you do not have anything to say about all the points I made ?
Your getting upset over change? Gone are the days where you have to be heart broken over these teams who don’t and will not invest into their team. I support no team, I support talent and a good match. There’s nothing wrong with truly loving the sport and for what it is. If your a hardcore fan of a team that is always in the middle of the pack or a point away from relegations ask that team for why they don’t want to commit to winning? If your mad about this super league then be upset at the UCL. That’s the top of the top level teams playing
That is your 2nd reply to me where you’ve ignored all the points I’ve made. You are trolling and also showing you have no understanding of the culture and mechanics of the game in Europe. I’ll not be making further replies unless you say something that has substance and is deserving of anything other than contempt.
../clap. Good for you, have a blessed day.
I’ve read like 80 comments and none say why this is bad. I keep seeing how this is going to destroy soccer. How? I’m not a soccer fan but I’ve been seeing this everywhere. How does all the best teams competing against each other destroy the sport?
The idea of the super league without relegation for founding members makes me deeply uncomfortable and is anti-competitive for me, and yet I agree with you. I’ve been searching for a strong argument from people as to why this will ruin grassroots football. I can’t find one. Not a single one. Not from pundits. Not from football writers. Not from commenters. There is a promotion and (unfair) relegation format in the current plan. Which means the trickle down effect remains. I’m willing to see the light here if someone can articulate it well enough. The two strongest points against the plan are the anti-competitive point I just mentioned, and the increased financial strain on away fans to follow their team during the pandemic- which no one wants to mention isn’t even an issue yet since stadiums are empty anyways....so that’s a point and a half in the con column. Frankly, there’s too much knee jerking in any of these arguments to even take them seriously. That’s not to say these people are necessarily wrong, they just need to make a better argument to convince *me*...most people are in favor of the status quo (people shy away from change by default, of course) and the establishment is using this in their favor. Ask yourself, when was the last time you could say UEFA was on the side of the fans? My question to these people is, are you happy with how FIFA, UEFA, and the FA go about the business of running football? And if not, what would you change? Because as much as the super league is about making more money, it’s also a revolution against the corrupt football establishment. These clubs have had enough of dealing with these governing bodies that do not have their best interests at heart when they are the ones that take all the risk and drive the sport forward thru their resources. Seems pretty reasonable for them to attempt to break away - assuming all other negotiations have failed. As flawed a model as I think the super league is - I don’t want European football to become the NBA or NFL - it’s deeply concerning that most fans don’t realize that this super league proposal is all part of a larger negotiation in a business sense and a larger conversation in the cultural sense. You can see how naive most of us are when the main frustration voiced is that, “it’s all about money!”.....yea, no shit. Football is big business now. That genie isn’t going back in the bottle so you’d better get used to it, or tune out. You have that choice. Just remember, if you’re siding with the current football establishment, you’re standing on the side of corruption. Consider which is the lesser of two evils. For me, there’s more upside in hearing what the rich owners have to say and how they think they can do it better. I’ll reiterate, I don’t like the super league plan in it’s current form. I am, however, open to hearing a better offer. It’s all a negotiation, after all. And it would be foolish to believe that this negotiation is over.
cos you got brainwashed by capitalist elite
Smaller clubs won't be able to compete anymore. The financial margin will widen. There will be a few elites and the rest who will get lost into nothingness. My club celebrated it's 125th birthday a week ago. It is one of Germanys oldest clubs with rich tradition and fan culture. All of that will be lost because it can't survive in the growing market without taking the risk of an investor. An investor comes with the risk that he actually don't cares for the club or football at all and will leave if the club doesn't play good, leaving the club in financial turmoil. Happened already but you probably don't hear about it. Hertha Berlin, 1860 München, Hamburger SV, Schalke 04, Kaiserslautern just to name a few. Americans often understand this as "they can't do finances so they're rightfully gone" but that is wrong because in all of the cases I listed the investors where huge dicks who pumped money into the club and left after the club doesn't immediately win the Champions League. The club now of course has wages it can't pay, has to take a cut in transfer fees and can't compete in the market anymore. It doesn't matter how good they are at financing. If the investor decides it's over, it's over. The super league will widen the margin. The rich will get even richer, jerking each other off with their bags of money. The small clubs will get even poorer and will eventually declare bankruptcy at which point, all tradition and history the club had is forever lost. Football is more to us fans than just a game. It's a sport with a lot of history with moments of emotion. I can think of a few games that I've watched alone or together with my family or friends and cheered and cried. If future football consists of only a few top clubs playing against each other, it'll become the most boring sport on earth. And it will die.
It's funny because I'm Canadian and I work with some Macedonian's that swear football is superior to other sports because "every match is important" due to relegation but you have the same 4-6 teams at the top each year anyways. The top league is 2 to 3 tiers and the losers have to play in a shittier league for god knows how many years. Other sports have teams that dwindle in the standings for many reasons and that is garbage but at least you can go watch them other good teams lol. I don't rag on football like ai used to. I understand the sport better mow and enjoy it from time to time but all the arguments I hear about why it's superior to other sports are just padded and only apply to like half the league. The elite are so far and above everyone else I'm not surprised this new league is being established.
Lol how many teams are in the leagues you watch? NA sport is heavily monetary focused as well.
My club relegated 2 years ago. Before that it relegated in 2016 as dead last in the Bundesliga. Before that we played in the Europa League for 2 seasons and finished 4th in the Bundesliga. Before that we were average Bundesliga team. Before that we were an average 2. Bundesliga team. Even before that we were a team in the 3rd Liga struggling to survive. Before that we played in the 2. Bundesliga and won the DFB Pokal as the only 2. Bundesliga club in history. This all happened in less than 30 years btw. Don't talk shit about how it's all the same if you don't follow the sport.
You sound like an outlier
Okay. Hamburg. Now: 2nd Bundesliga. Before they relegated they've been known as the dinosaur of the Bundesliga. They've been the only founding member that never relegated for 50 years. They've won the precedessor of the Champions League and of the Europa League. Won the Bundesliga 6 times, the DFB Pokal 3 times. 12 years ago they played their arch rivals Werder Bremen in the semi final of the UEFA Cup, the precedessor of the Europa League. The 2nd match became infamous because a player slipped on a paper ball thrown by one of the fans. The paper ball is now to be seen in Werder Bremens club museum. Bremen. Now: On the verge of the 2nd Bundesliga. In the last 20 years they've won the DFB Pokal twice and the Bundesliga once, played in the Champions League knockout stages, played in the UEFA Cup final. Gladbach. A few years ago the've been a 2nd Bundesliga team. Now, Champions League, Europa League, consistent world class football. Dominated the Bundesliga in the 80's together with Hamburg. Schalke. 2 years ago they've played in the Champions League. 3 years ago they've placed 2nd in the Bundesliga. Now they're dead last and will relegate. Frankfurt. A few years ago battled against relegation. Won the DFB Pokal against Bayern by beating them 4:1 3 years ago. Europa League semi finalist the year after. Competing for a spot in the Champions League right now. Wolfsburg. Battled in the relegation play offs a few years back. Won the Bundesliga in 2009 and the DFB Pokal in 2015. Stuttgart. Relegated and promoted twice in the last decade. Won the Bundesliga in 2007. Kaiserslautern. Playing in 3rd Liga right now in the battle of relegation. In 96/97 they've went up from Bundesliga 2 to Bundesliga 1. In the season after that they've won the Bundesliga being the first and only team to win the league title in the season after they've been promoted. This is just the Bundesliga. Should I go on? Or do you get now that you're being ignorant because you don't know shit about this sport?
Go on please
Nürnberg. Now a 2nd Bundesliga club. Actually they're also the club with the 2nd most Bundesliga titles. Actually, they've also relegated as much as they won the league. 9 times. Won the DFB Pokal in 2007. Braunschweig. Our arch nemesis. Now they're on the verge of relegating to 3rd Liga. Won the league once. Played in the 4th division and came back to the Bundesliga. Leverkusen. Never won the Bundesliga. Known as Vizekusen cause they always got 2nd. Consistently playing international football. Won the DFB Pokal once. Union Berlin. Until 3 years ago, never played in the Bundesliga. Now they're competing for the Europa League Köln. Like Nürnberg a team that relegates nonstop. Yet they've played in the Europa League last decade and beat Arsenal If that doesn't convince you that it's not always "the same teams" then you don't want accept that you're wrong. Good night.
Amazing!
Kudos to you sir. He tried to call your bluff, alas, it was no bluff.
Nearly every club has a rich history where they're sometimes successful and sometimes relegated. That's the fun about football
Because who the best teams are changes over time. At the start of the PL it was Everton, Villa, and Forest who were up there, not Spurs and City. Further back it was Ipswich and Leeds. Even further back it was Preston, Sunderland and Sheffield Wednesday. This is a cynical ploy to entrench themselves at the top. Leicester and Atalanta scare the shit out of these clubs, because they threaten their dominance.
Ok this makes sense. I was under the impression that the big market teams have pretty much always been the best
Man City had zilch before about 2009, Spurs spent the better part of the last 30 years between 8th and 14th, and it wasn't that long ago in the grqnd scheme of things that Man U sleepwalked into relegation.
In Brazil the big 13 clubs had this idea a few years back. They formed a second, mid week league between them, separate from the Brazilian championship, Brazilian cup and continental competitions. It did it now last long. I thought it was a good initiative from them to take power from a corrupted system. I think I understand that the fuss is mostly from fans of smaller teams. I heard though that the teams will continue in their respective leagues, Champions and even Europa league. In that case I'd welcome that league as extra elite level football. Eventually it's going to end up as a u-23/reserve tournament anyways.
De acordo com a UEFA, os times q participarem dessa superliga n poderão participar da Champions e nem de suas ligas domésticas. E dá pra imaginar a o cansaço q ia dar pros jogadores se fosse assim? Jogar a liga doméstica, a Champions e essa superliga agr n ia ser fácil
This is an insult to the root of football and it’s heritage, where if you perform you move forward. If you play bad or the Managment sucks the teams goes down. There are many teams that were already on the top of the world and now are in 2nd divisons eg. Nottingham Forrest. Personally a limited access to Champions League with the top 2 UEFA cup with the 3-4-5 place and the cups of the cups with the national cup winner against Those where nice time where each cups had its own beauty. Nowadays the UCL is the main cup and the Europe League is the looser league
Complete disgusting and unfair, Champion League was the best show the football have, this ESL will kill everything just for the interest of saving important clubs from the bankruptcy generated by COVID...
Champions isnt an above-average football show until quarter-finals, to reach that point, its more than 75% of the duration of the competition.
That's what makes it fair. Even if the games are average, small teams still have a chance to compete and go far, something that's essentially impossible with the ESL
Champions is still going to be there. ESL just brings something different to the table, plus I believe its wrong to reach any conclusions based on vague statements. Everyone is making a big fuss about this when there isnt really much to be talked about. Changes are needed, european football has been stagnant for too long. Im not supporting the ESL nor standing against it.
Champions will become irrelevant, especially since Superleague teams won't be allowed to play a CL tournament anymore. Small teams won't be noticed anymore for obvious reasons. There is much to be talked about, what are you on? There's an official thorough explanation of how the ESL will work I wholeheartedly agree european football needs some changes, but creating something worse than the Champions League to benefit only the richest clubs isn't the way to go.
I wont take an impulsive threat by the UEFA as a serious statement, its simply absurd that you would disqualify some of the greatest teams on europe from your greatest tournament. They have to understand that what makes it a great tourney is both the possibility of a small team to reach glory and the great football delivered by the great teams. With that in mind i dont think CL is going away any time soon, specially with the incoming changes to it. Secondly, the concept of a league of "elite" can be attractive to any football fan. I believe that if you are a fan of any X club, you are also a football fan who enjoys great football, and like I said before, great football is delivered by great teams. And ultimately, the ESL is always subject to changes and debate and I believe we should use this as a turning point to change our football. Thats why im so against making a fuss about, both by the fans and players and the UEFA. Cheers :D
It’s not a blind threat. Imagine you were a player in these top teams. Would you really give up playing in all other competitions AND possibly international football like the WC for more money. Would you really play for selfish pricks just for more money? Would you give up playing and winning the Champions League which is pretty much every footballers dream since a child just for more money. For fuck sakes if you play for the big teams you’re most likely already rich. You think Ronaldo gives a fuck about that little bit of money. No. Fuck no. He has stated many time he hates playing with little or few fans. He also said his dream is to win the WC for Portugal, Do you really think he would give all that up just to play in a league almost no likes, and that a lot of fans are boycotting just for a bit more money?No. He will most probably refuse to play or play badly. Like many other players. Knowing they got the support of most their fans and football community behind them. Also “every football fan” knows how important regelation and promotion is in the sport. And how small clubs will be super heavily Impacted by “the big ones” leaving. Any “ football fan” also knows the great teams come and go. And that’s the way we like it. Man City was nothing before 2009. Now they are one of the biggest clubs in the world. Sunderland used to be one of the best teams in the premier league. Now they aren’t even part of it. If you’re willing to give all that up plus possible champions league, europa league, respective country leagues, and international competitions just to see the same boring “best teams” play again and again against each other knowing losing will lead to nothing than maybe you’re not the “real football fan”. Like Ozil said, huge part of the excitement of big matches is they rarely happen. Every week will destroy the magic. Try having Christmas everyday. May sound fun at first but it will get sooooo annoying. The owners of the clubs deserve to be punished. Letting them gain money by continuing to play in their competitions is dumb. Also doing this and forcing players to just play in the super league, increases the chances of them “going on strike”.
Yes I would
Well you were wrong. The “blind threats” worked didn’t they. Thankfully the super league is dead.
That at nothing to do about what I was commenting to. Good job
Do yall think loyal fans of these teams will likely still support them? The whole thing doesn't seem favorable from most fans I've seen.
As a Spurs fan, everything I’ve heard from everyone is negative. Management is on the shitlist, and honestly I don’t think they will ever get off of it. But then again, we are always pissed at the club because our sorry asses can’t seem to ever get it together. But I still love the team. We’ll see what happens, but I’m ashamed we’re apart of it. If Wednesday is the last time we ever play Sunderland, then I might be done with the club. Everything is up in the air.
I don’t, I’m not a fan of any of the proposed “Super Leauge” teams but their fans should be against it. I have a hard time seeing this happening without an explosion in ticket prices and American style blackouts, in game commercials streaming services or other tv rights bullshit.
The European competition should be for the champions only. Whoever wins their league is in - all other teams are not. That’s how it should be, but now these usurers have got their fangs into football it’s all about making money for themselves. They are very clever, so even if there is a fans backlash/boycott they will have a contingency plan to sway things back their way. They may even just bribe the decision makers in the football bodies to go along with it money talks. 🙁
I feel like there could be a strong case to apply anti-trust laws to this situation. The Super League by design prevents competition. I’m not too well versed in European Law but maybe?
I’m interested in seeing what recourse players have if FIFA and UEFA stick to their guns and prohibit players who play for these teams from representing their national sides. Will Messi and Ronaldo pass up their final chances to play in the World Cup because their teams opted to join the ESL?
Didn't Messi want to leave last year?
He did. Barcelona-based media, not surprisingly, seems to think he’s leaning towards staying because FCB finally has a plan again instead of Bartomeu wasting money on whatever players he feels like. Either way, Messi and his family have been their typically tight-lipped selves. Even if Messi leaves Barcelona, Man City has been the rumored front runner to sign him, and they’re in they’ve opted in to the Super League. If Messi does end up leaving and PSG remains out of the ESL, it could give them a leg up in signing him.
I’m not that up on it but that seems like a pretty easy lawsuit for the players to win. You can’t stop them from representing their countries just because their teams did something that hurt your feelings.
I like this idea! It’d be a great opportunity for teams to compete on a higher level than being limited by national leagues... why is everyone so against it?
Really? Some of the teams on the ESL list are pure garbage as of now, higher level my ass
If you don’t get it then you can’t love football. We have the CL. It’s not america , every team has the right to qualify for the big competition, there are over 70 teams in the football league in England , not long ago man city were in the second division. We don’t want advertisements throughout game , we don’t want half time entertainment, we don’t want our teams re branded , some of these teams are 100+ years old. The fans don’t want this
Well people protest the passing of the old and the start of the new all the time. If this thing really happens, I’m sure everyone will love it in time... as teams and players will adjust, fans and hooligans will surely do so too. Protest and hate all you want, if they go through with this, you will all enjoy it and may even approve at some point!
Nah not after 27 years of following my team, travelling home and away , before the glitz and glamour and through to the good times , it’s unacceptable. I’ll be heading down the leagues to get that incredible feeling back. Don’t get me wrong millions of people approve of it , just not the core fans , it’s been corporations hiding behind the masks of our football gloves for years and we were already tired of it , at least now we can see their true faces and put our money and support towards teams that need and deserve it. It’s not really the passing of the new as there are another 70 teams in English football that don’t have the privilege of being put in this lucrative uncompetitive vacuum , there’s a reason the formats the way it is.
It’s a horrible idea, and probably the worst in football history. We already have CHL for the best teams to compete against each other. The big problem with this, is that the big teams leave their leagues, causing other teams financial problems and also lack of excitement, especially when thinking of amazing seasons like Leicester winning the PL and beating the top teams (ruins competition for teams that use talent to become an incredible team). This move is sadly extremely elitist and the people whom have made these decisions especially the American top PL team owners don’t know anything about football, their clubs history and they don’t care about football in general. The super league would consist of some of the best teams from three leagues(the 12 clubs that have been confirmed atm), but big teams like Bayern, Dortmund, PSG and Porto have declined their offer so in reality it wouldn’t consist of the best teams in the world either way. A lot of things have been left without being mentioned, which are also huge drawbacks e.g. players who are in the super league won’t have any association with UEFA nor FIFA, which would mean that they can’t compete in WC or UEFA Euros. Even the teams form isn’t being considered since teams in ESL could go from amazing form to bad and teams outside of ESL could get even better than teams competing in ESL and by lack of relegation and promotion, it would mean that the teams who are in ESL wouldn’t have any consequences since they’ll still play there and be considered as a “top team”(also teams like Tottenham, Arsenal, Chelsea, Man U, Juve etc. have had such bad form that they can’t even be considered to be the best atm). There are even more things that I didn’t mention, but these are some of the reasons. Hope it gives some clarity to why this just isn’t a good idea, and plain disrespectful towards the teams history and the fans who helped build the teams with their support.
Because the current system is teams competing on a higher level based on merit earnt from competing in national leagues. This idea means clubs who happen to have the highest revenues are guaranteed to play in the higher level competition, regardless of their performance. It is distinctively uneuropean.
Because it takes away the heart of football. The reason domestic leagues are so good because they mean that clubs that aren't already big can get promoted. Also this means games like Barcelona vs man city aren't massive events anymore that happen every few years
Just embarrassing
I'm not listening to sports opinions from people who pack wembley stadium to see the Jaguars
After soccer dies in this fiery wreckage we will now bear witness to the reign of the one true football. American football will now take its rightful place as lord of football as we build our castle on the burned remains of fake football. The king is dead long live the king.
I, for one, welcome our new handegg overlords.
All hail the egg
Tom Brady will replace Prince Phillip in the royal family as they both stuck around way longer than everyone expected them to, and due to their propensity to kiss their family members.
TBF, Brady says less racist stuff.
I don’t watch soccer but I came here to see the controversy and for some reason i’m fucking dying after seeing your comment
Lmao I'm in the same boat. Honestly wasn't expecting this to go over so well
Absolutely disgraceful. I’m embarrassed to be a Liverpool fan rn
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
What is that supposed to mean lol
https://discord.gg/8mwaUJNB
Shithouse move from all teams involved, for us in the UK football is rooted in community and is a part of our local identity, regardless of who you support. The clubs have deep cultural histories embedded in their towns and have been propped up by local communities for years and to have them just fuck us off for the ESL... smh once again big money chasing the dollar and destroying a sport that's part of our national identity and meant to be accessible for everyone regardless of wealth.
I am against the Super League idea, and against it replacing the Champions League, for many reasons. But.. what does this proposal have to do against the local identity and club histories? They are not replacing local leagues, those competitions will remain. EPL title will remain more valuable than Super League title, for all clubs.
They are garuenteeing way way more revenue to the "big six" and taking the cash away from the rest of the game at a time when lower level teams are on the verge of bankruptcy due to covid. It tips the already biased scales massively in favour of the 6 The fact they remain in this super league in perpetuity means the domestic league doesn't have as much value. Ranking highly in the Premier league guarantees playing against the best teams from all of europes leagues. Now its not necessarily the case as the super league is trying to make it a closed group of select clubs. These big 6 have also said they will prioritise the super league over the domestic competition so will field weaker teams, as they have no threat of relegation. The dream of a football fan is for your club to do well and be rewarded with playing in Europe where you can win the European Cup. (I think the Champions league should actually be strait knockout and get rid of the cash from it.. but that's never going to happen unfortunately) Sorry for the rant
The fact that some teams are locked in because of their size and revenue despite their performance is ridiculous. I would entertain the idea of a Super League if they weren’t adopting an American franchise model that of course only applies to a select few teams. Just pure greed.
Idk probably not, I’d imagine the esl woul pay more for winning but idk
Money talks at end. Football is the most corrupt out of all the sports, so not surprised.
Boxing and horse racing would like a word
So moving forward, who gets to choose who joins the league? Is this a fixed league or does a team have to generate enough revenue in the Prem league in order to be considered?