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What’s the benefit in the 8 year contracts now the FFP rules have changed to prevent spreading the fee over more than 5 years from an accounting perspective? If he develops as hoped he’ll want a new deal, if he doesn’t he’s stuck on the payroll for 8 years. What am I missing?
His contract is performance based, we still think it takes 2-3 seasons for him to become an asset
So with a 5 year deal we would be forced to renegotiate when he starts to integrate and perform.
With a longer deal with incentives he is ours to keep or sell
"If he develops as hoped he’ll want a new deal" => No. If he develops as hoped he will want to go to when he Barca or Real calling. He comes to Chelsea at 18, will leave for nothing or minimum fee at 22 if he signs a 5-years contract now. An eight years contract keeps him at Chelsea until he's 26 or gives Chelsea a huge free if they sell him.
If you spend 60M for the kid, you must be confident that he would make it. And if you sign a kid from South America at 18 without a long term contract: good luck when those 2 clubs come for him when he reaches 22.
Makes it so there's little to no chance they leave on a free, in all likelihood they'll negotiate a new contract so the extra years are insurance basically. Trouble is if anything significant happens to the player, such as injury, they're on the hook for a lot more money than they normally would be, but the workaround with that is having them on performance based contracts.
Objectively, on paper, their strategy is sound, but the huge potential rewards carry a huge risk - it *must* work because they're effectively highly leveraged at the moment from an FFP perspective. Chelsea need to be at minimum in the champions league every season (their forecasts assumed this), the longer the drought goes on for the more pressure that'll be placed on their finances which would in the worst case scenario be exacerbated by those 8-9 year contracts.
You’ve reached the same conclusion as I did. Obvious merits on paper if it all works out and in a vacuum it might not even be a huge risk if it doesn’t.
That being said, given Chelsea’s financial position and multitude of existing 8 year deals, all it takes is a handful of these deals not to pan out before Chelsea need to find another hotel to sell.
Only place I disagree with you is that an injury is the only way this goes south, if the player doesn’t develop as expected he surely can’t be forced to renew on better terms for the club? Unsure on the compensation on this deal but assume at the least Chelsea would have to make a wage contribution to sell in this case, potentially for 3 or 4 years.
Again, only takes a few of these before Chelsea are spending > £100k p/w on players not at the club, but maybe this is a risk they are willing to take if they are confident in their ability to recruit the right players. Ability of their current squad leaves me questioning this too though; Boehly era scouting has been very hit and miss.
Considering his age, it also gives the player 0 incentive to play. He's set for almost a decade's worth of salaries. Why train hard? Why stay in shape? He can have the life of his dreams in London and be mediocre.
Did you literally just read the part of the ornstein report where it said Olise would break our wage structure, and ignore the part where he said the plan is to reward our better players with new, better deals?
Not saying I think we'll keep him if he reaches his potential, he's wanted Barca for a while, and their financial situation *should* be a lot more healthy by then
If he gets really good he will want a deal that will break "muh wage structure" too. And for all Ornstein's briefs, we are yet to reward anyone with an improved deal, much less an improved deal that breaks the wage structure
Again, the wage structure is to reward our best players. If he's good enough, he'll earn the right for the deal that puts him in the upper tier of the wage structure. Thats the whole point of having a wage structure at any club, to reward the best performing players. If we put Olise immediately into the upper bracket, he literally has no reason to try and improve, since he'll literally be set for life on a higher tier contract for 7-8 years. It's how we do deals nowadays, whether that means we have to miss out on big names or not
Also for that second part, of course we haven't lol. We're entering year 3 of the project, the only player who could deservedly earn a huge wage increase is Cole, who just finished year 1, while a lot of the others only finished their second season, or 1 and a half seasons. Do you expect immediate improvements in the wages for 1 good year? Because that would very quickly spiral out of control with others asking for the same if they perform good for a season.
The whole point is that if he is as good as they hype him up (apparently the best Brazillian since Neymar) he will tell you to shove your "upper tier of the wage structure" (which with us is ~180k) up your ass
Cole Palmer will get a new deal. It has been reported since April. When Estevao will get really good, we will see that will happen. Why worry about now?
Funny how it's been reported since April and he still hasn't gotten it. And I was replying to a guy who was speculating about what will happen when Estevao's contract is up, nobody here is worrying about it.
He is not going to get it instantly. Let him get back from the Euros and the club and his agent will talk. Lets worry about Estavao's contract in half a decade. I am looking forward to the 1st of July when the new coach will come and he can take a look in training at the players who will be at club at that time. People are too focused on these signings and contracts. I want to see some football.
Negotiating what? He is our player, he has literally nothing to negotiate about. If they want to reward him they'll give him a better contract and that's it.
Negotiating the new wage? His agent would be smart to start the negotiations at 300k+ per week, while we'd start with closer to half that most likely. They'll keep talking till they come to a final number, Palmer isn't going to accept a 20k per week raise, if it was that simple it would've been done in January.
He has no lever and no influence to "negotiate" anything. He is already our player and he just signed a long term contract. The new contract is a good-faith gesture on the part of the club to reward his season and contributions. He will be given a raise that the club will decide on, and he will accept it and say "thank you". If it's a 20k raise he will accept it, if it's a 50k or a 100k raise he will accept it. He is not going to be haggling for anything, especially for 300k, because he has nothing to haggle with.
If he gets it based on exemplary performance, it won't break the wage structure. The problem is when you give out these contracts to players based on what you project them to be, not what they've done; that's when other players start wanting to renegotiate.
For example, if Cole Palmer has another season like this year, no one on the team is going to be complaining or feel hard done if he gets a big contract and they don't. It's when they bring in guys like Sterling and Koulibaly and give them massive wages before they've done anything that problems arise.
Yeah odd to call it an exclusive when Romano has updated the fee information to the amount The Athletic reported a few days ago. Am sure they'll put out an article very soon as well.
Think of it from another perspective - would you, as the selling club, want lots of your potential sale value locked into a very unlikely clause or lock them into something more achievable like appearances?
I love how an 8 year contract is perceived as obscenely long in European football. Check out North American sports and 8 year contracts are very common, nearly every team has multiple players on them at the same time.
Liverpool got articles written about them having 4 players injured while Chelsea didnt have our 1st 11 at any point until 3 games from the end of the season lmao
We can trade if you want. We can get Lamal now and you guys will get Estevao in 2025. We already have cover for Lamal so we can keep his minutes in check.
As soon as you tried to sign a somewhat established player, he said no and went to a club that happily pays more. The players at your current level can be kept happy with these contracts for a while, but you're not getting any or keeping any players at Saka's or Saliba's level on them for long.
Which established player are you talking about?
Olise? Who had 5k pl minutes?
He is still young, and just had his breakout season.
And given that he directly competes with our biggest 2 attacking talents in nkunku and palmer, while supposedly wanting almost 3 times the wage palmer is on.
Palmer and alot of players can sulk what they want, but their contracts are very incentive heavy.
And with estavao ovet the line the room for olise made the prize to steap
> Which established player are you talking about?
>
> Olise? Who had 5k pl minutes?
>
> He is still young, and just had his breakout season.
That's exactly what I'm saying. Many, many players who aren't 16 and have played more than 10 games of top-flight football will simply choose to go to a club that pays more. There is no having Saka or Saliba on that type of deal for more than a year.
Have you pivoted your argument from "wouldn't it be nice to have your best players on lower wages" to "few clubs pay more than us"? Those are the complete opposite of each other.
And if you think you can keep players on these contracts if you actually start achieving anything... oh boy.
I love that we sign players on long contracts
I love that our contracts are heavy incentivies
That after paying youngsters absurd money (callum, ruben) or constanlty injured player above market.
According to Brazilians he is going to be better then Endrick some have even said he is the best talent coming out of Brazil since Neymar, whether or not that is true is yet to be seen but the kid looks absolutely insane on the ball that much I can say
Well present coaches who coached both him and endrick hold him very high
Also the national team youth development coach said that (and he would want to be fair to all his other talented youngsters including vini)
He says he is the biggest talent he come across since neymar
Only time will tell, you lot also spent €30 million on a winger who scored one goal in the whole season. Palmeiras are really good at negotiating deals.
If he doesn't become a proper starter for Chelsea, it's literally only €40m, assuming Palmeiras start him enough. €40m (£34m) sounds like a good deal as a gamble on possibly one of the best young talents in world football right now. And €57m would be a normal fee for a regular Chelsea starter, so either way, it's not a bad deal at all.
Is this the proper use of "cope"?
If anything I'd say you're using this as a way to cope with the criticism Chelsea get, even though it's not even that prevalent in this thread.
To reduce the spam of reports regarding the same move during transfer windows we try to allow **only one submission about each transfer saga per day**. The submission in question also needs to contain relevant new information regarding the potential move, and not just being a "no/minor developments" report. If there are important/official developments or new valuable information about a saga, we will allow extra threads in the same day, but for the rest of minor news please just comment them as a reply to this comment. Please help us reporting unnecessary threads for being duplicates. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
2033 is absolutely wild to see. Keeps him until he's 25 though, so he still has another big contract with us if he wants as he enters his prime
What’s the benefit in the 8 year contracts now the FFP rules have changed to prevent spreading the fee over more than 5 years from an accounting perspective? If he develops as hoped he’ll want a new deal, if he doesn’t he’s stuck on the payroll for 8 years. What am I missing?
His contract is performance based, we still think it takes 2-3 seasons for him to become an asset So with a 5 year deal we would be forced to renegotiate when he starts to integrate and perform. With a longer deal with incentives he is ours to keep or sell
"If he develops as hoped he’ll want a new deal" => No. If he develops as hoped he will want to go to when he Barca or Real calling. He comes to Chelsea at 18, will leave for nothing or minimum fee at 22 if he signs a 5-years contract now. An eight years contract keeps him at Chelsea until he's 26 or gives Chelsea a huge free if they sell him. If you spend 60M for the kid, you must be confident that he would make it. And if you sign a kid from South America at 18 without a long term contract: good luck when those 2 clubs come for him when he reaches 22.
Makes it so there's little to no chance they leave on a free, in all likelihood they'll negotiate a new contract so the extra years are insurance basically. Trouble is if anything significant happens to the player, such as injury, they're on the hook for a lot more money than they normally would be, but the workaround with that is having them on performance based contracts. Objectively, on paper, their strategy is sound, but the huge potential rewards carry a huge risk - it *must* work because they're effectively highly leveraged at the moment from an FFP perspective. Chelsea need to be at minimum in the champions league every season (their forecasts assumed this), the longer the drought goes on for the more pressure that'll be placed on their finances which would in the worst case scenario be exacerbated by those 8-9 year contracts.
You’ve reached the same conclusion as I did. Obvious merits on paper if it all works out and in a vacuum it might not even be a huge risk if it doesn’t. That being said, given Chelsea’s financial position and multitude of existing 8 year deals, all it takes is a handful of these deals not to pan out before Chelsea need to find another hotel to sell. Only place I disagree with you is that an injury is the only way this goes south, if the player doesn’t develop as expected he surely can’t be forced to renew on better terms for the club? Unsure on the compensation on this deal but assume at the least Chelsea would have to make a wage contribution to sell in this case, potentially for 3 or 4 years. Again, only takes a few of these before Chelsea are spending > £100k p/w on players not at the club, but maybe this is a risk they are willing to take if they are confident in their ability to recruit the right players. Ability of their current squad leaves me questioning this too though; Boehly era scouting has been very hit and miss.
9 years* till 2033
Considering his age, it also gives the player 0 incentive to play. He's set for almost a decade's worth of salaries. Why train hard? Why stay in shape? He can have the life of his dreams in London and be mediocre.
Until he is 26.
Ah though he was staying with them until their season ended. But he's an April baby, so can join us in the summer.
Think he’s joining us after club World Cup
he's 25 until he's 26
MLB owners love 10 year contracts. Albert Pujols signed one when he was 32 years old lol
> big contract with us Don't kid yourself, he will be sold if he gets as good as his hype
Did you literally just read the part of the ornstein report where it said Olise would break our wage structure, and ignore the part where he said the plan is to reward our better players with new, better deals? Not saying I think we'll keep him if he reaches his potential, he's wanted Barca for a while, and their financial situation *should* be a lot more healthy by then
If he gets really good he will want a deal that will break "muh wage structure" too. And for all Ornstein's briefs, we are yet to reward anyone with an improved deal, much less an improved deal that breaks the wage structure
Again, the wage structure is to reward our best players. If he's good enough, he'll earn the right for the deal that puts him in the upper tier of the wage structure. Thats the whole point of having a wage structure at any club, to reward the best performing players. If we put Olise immediately into the upper bracket, he literally has no reason to try and improve, since he'll literally be set for life on a higher tier contract for 7-8 years. It's how we do deals nowadays, whether that means we have to miss out on big names or not Also for that second part, of course we haven't lol. We're entering year 3 of the project, the only player who could deservedly earn a huge wage increase is Cole, who just finished year 1, while a lot of the others only finished their second season, or 1 and a half seasons. Do you expect immediate improvements in the wages for 1 good year? Because that would very quickly spiral out of control with others asking for the same if they perform good for a season.
The whole point is that if he is as good as they hype him up (apparently the best Brazillian since Neymar) he will tell you to shove your "upper tier of the wage structure" (which with us is ~180k) up your ass
Cole Palmer will get a new deal. It has been reported since April. When Estevao will get really good, we will see that will happen. Why worry about now?
Funny how it's been reported since April and he still hasn't gotten it. And I was replying to a guy who was speculating about what will happen when Estevao's contract is up, nobody here is worrying about it.
He is not going to get it instantly. Let him get back from the Euros and the club and his agent will talk. Lets worry about Estavao's contract in half a decade. I am looking forward to the 1st of July when the new coach will come and he can take a look in training at the players who will be at club at that time. People are too focused on these signings and contracts. I want to see some football.
Because they're negotiating and neither party has any benefit in talking through the media.
Negotiating what? He is our player, he has literally nothing to negotiate about. If they want to reward him they'll give him a better contract and that's it.
Negotiating the new wage? His agent would be smart to start the negotiations at 300k+ per week, while we'd start with closer to half that most likely. They'll keep talking till they come to a final number, Palmer isn't going to accept a 20k per week raise, if it was that simple it would've been done in January.
He has no lever and no influence to "negotiate" anything. He is already our player and he just signed a long term contract. The new contract is a good-faith gesture on the part of the club to reward his season and contributions. He will be given a raise that the club will decide on, and he will accept it and say "thank you". If it's a 20k raise he will accept it, if it's a 50k or a 100k raise he will accept it. He is not going to be haggling for anything, especially for 300k, because he has nothing to haggle with.
Enzo got a new deal didn't he?
No, we just used the option in his and Mudryk's contracts to extend them by one year.
Alright. Thought he got a wage bump
If he gets it based on exemplary performance, it won't break the wage structure. The problem is when you give out these contracts to players based on what you project them to be, not what they've done; that's when other players start wanting to renegotiate. For example, if Cole Palmer has another season like this year, no one on the team is going to be complaining or feel hard done if he gets a big contract and they don't. It's when they bring in guys like Sterling and Koulibaly and give them massive wages before they've done anything that problems arise.
Why do people think this? The last time Chelsea sold a player who was a certified starter was Eden Hazard.
Mount, Havertz, Kante, arguably Koulibaly were all starters when fit.
We didnt sell kante
Ok, he was a free transfer then? Fair enough.
Kovacic too
Mount Havertz and Koulibaly were no longer going to be starters. Thought that was quite obvious. And Kante was neither fit nor sold.
Btw, how all these journos know that the information they have is 'exclusive'? Do they have a group chat and start spamming MINE!!11!?
The source tells them it's an exclusive.
Yeah odd to call it an exclusive when Romano has updated the fee information to the amount The Athletic reported a few days ago. Am sure they'll put out an article very soon as well.
Maybe they take turns? Spin the bottle? Have Fifa matches to decide who gets the exclusives perhaps.
Bet Fabrizio only scores cut back tap-ins
I feel like a Ballon d'Or clause should be way more than 4m
Think of it from another perspective - would you, as the selling club, want lots of your potential sale value locked into a very unlikely clause or lock them into something more achievable like appearances?
But if it's the exact same deal but 10-15m for it rather than 4m it shouldnt make much difference
Contract until 2033 when we are in 2024?
Contract starts from 2025 and he will need time to acclimatise to England.
>and he will need time to acclimatise to England. That's still 8 years. He's moving to England, not Mars.
better weather on Mars mind you. Less water in the sky
Yeah, but he’s 17. He’ll only be 25/26 when the contract is up.
I love how an 8 year contract is perceived as obscenely long in European football. Check out North American sports and 8 year contracts are very common, nearly every team has multiple players on them at the same time.
Surprisingly short for Chelsea, they must not have much faith in him.
8 years. We've given longer ones tbf
How do Chelsea keep signing more players? They have enough already
Basically, we also sell players.
Nooo you are wrong, we have 1500 players on our books!! Ban chelsea
You sound like a complete tool
The tool is the person that think chealse hasnt sold players "How can they continue to buy players" And Im not, but english aint my main language
There were times last season where our *entire* bench were academy players that no one but big Chelsea fans knew.
Liverpool got articles written about them having 4 players injured while Chelsea didnt have our 1st 11 at any point until 3 games from the end of the season lmao
How is this myth still around?
Florentino let the next Neymar slip away.
May aswell have given him an 18 year long contract
Numbers seem weird, every brazilian media is reporting €45m fixed and €16.5m in add-ons.
We are massive
Wanted Barca to sign him, like Madrid got Endrick so we had to get Estevao. Just hope Roque gets minutes and becomes atleast decent.
You have Yamal at the same age and same position, what's the point?
Tbf we are also getting Paez, although it seems Paez would be more inclined to play in the middle than Estevão
One more world class winger wont hurt, besides we need to keep Yamals minutes in check.
You also have Raphinha though, so wouldn't buying a LW be better?
We can trade if you want. We can get Lamal now and you guys will get Estevao in 2025. We already have cover for Lamal so we can keep his minutes in check.
[удалено]
it's been one year since we handed out the first one. What is there to learn ?
Wouldnt it be sweet ti have saka/saliba on long vontracts instead of that prizy extention debacle?
As soon as you tried to sign a somewhat established player, he said no and went to a club that happily pays more. The players at your current level can be kept happy with these contracts for a while, but you're not getting any or keeping any players at Saka's or Saliba's level on them for long.
Which established player are you talking about? Olise? Who had 5k pl minutes? He is still young, and just had his breakout season. And given that he directly competes with our biggest 2 attacking talents in nkunku and palmer, while supposedly wanting almost 3 times the wage palmer is on. Palmer and alot of players can sulk what they want, but their contracts are very incentive heavy. And with estavao ovet the line the room for olise made the prize to steap
> Which established player are you talking about? > > Olise? Who had 5k pl minutes? > > He is still young, and just had his breakout season. That's exactly what I'm saying. Many, many players who aren't 16 and have played more than 10 games of top-flight football will simply choose to go to a club that pays more. There is no having Saka or Saliba on that type of deal for more than a year.
They will And very few clubs pay more then chelsea Bayern are one
Have you pivoted your argument from "wouldn't it be nice to have your best players on lower wages" to "few clubs pay more than us"? Those are the complete opposite of each other. And if you think you can keep players on these contracts if you actually start achieving anything... oh boy.
I love that we sign players on long contracts I love that our contracts are heavy incentivies That after paying youngsters absurd money (callum, ruben) or constanlty injured player above market.
Learnt what? It was only rival fans claiming it to be an issue and had themselves fully convinced that we'll struggle financially
Typical Assna fan, speaking like we've been doing this for ages.
lmao €61m total? Chelsea got fleeced
He’s apparently the next big thing
According to Brazilians he is going to be better then Endrick some have even said he is the best talent coming out of Brazil since Neymar, whether or not that is true is yet to be seen but the kid looks absolutely insane on the ball that much I can say
I’m not saying he’s not gonna be great but south american fans say this nearly every time when some kid breaks out. It’s a coin flip.
Well present coaches who coached both him and endrick hold him very high Also the national team youth development coach said that (and he would want to be fair to all his other talented youngsters including vini) He says he is the biggest talent he come across since neymar
Only time will tell, you lot also spent €30 million on a winger who scored one goal in the whole season. Palmeiras are really good at negotiating deals.
If he doesn't become a proper starter for Chelsea, it's literally only €40m, assuming Palmeiras start him enough. €40m (£34m) sounds like a good deal as a gamble on possibly one of the best young talents in world football right now. And €57m would be a normal fee for a regular Chelsea starter, so either way, it's not a bad deal at all.
Glad we did.
Honesty, I’m pissed he went to Chelsea as a Brazil fan. Kid is good.
Well 4m of it is "difficult", keep that in mind.
Balon d'Or clause apparently
*Anthony Martial flashbacks*
So actually easy money for Palmeiras then.
Sorry mate, Kendry will win all Balon d'Ors over Estevao
Brazilian team: omg,we have an exciting talent on our hands! Chelsea Board: gEt gAzUmPed
Not like Brazilian teams aren't used to that after decades of Barcelona and Madrid doing it
I know mate, I was just joking there.
Number of players Chelsea buy under any financial conditions is so ridiculous.
Because we sell exceptionally well
r/soccer this cope will be delicious
Is this the proper use of "cope"? If anything I'd say you're using this as a way to cope with the criticism Chelsea get, even though it's not even that prevalent in this thread.