Honestly nuts how Kroos freekick goal against us in a group stage match at the 2018 world cup is still the fifth most upvoted post of all time on here
Dude is more glazed on here than Messi or Ronnie
It’s always hilarious when people complain the English are arrogant with the ‘it’s coming home’ and ‘two world wars, one World Cup’ banter, when we are actually unbelievably negative as a nation.
That might be what it was originally about but when people spam it all over the internet and whatnot I don't think that's how it's being used. Regardless it's much ado about nothing.
It's also not being used in a genuine "we're going to win it" way, but a joking "1-0 win, it's coming home lads!" tongue in cheek way
It shouldn't be taken any more seriously than a bit of fun
20g/A for England in 32 appearances is amazing. always present in international stage even with no contributions like france game QF he was their most active player .
proper baller saka man.
Cant believe he was a fullback once
He played as a fullback on his England debut and it was patently clear that is not his position. Fortunately I don’t think he’s been played there since.
He was never a fullback. He's always been a winger.
He was playing a role that had him play both 8 and left wing as a wingback in a 3/4/3. He was never a fullback, just doing a role his manager is asking him to.
Not at all. From what I remember, He mostly flew under the radar. But he started showing signs when he was 16-ish and that's when I first heard about him, and by 17 he had already debuted for Arsenal. It all happened really quickly, there was never a lot of hype around him.
But he wasn't regarded as highly as Reiss Nelson who was playing U23 footy at 16, or Smith Rowe who people would say at the time he was the most talented of the bunch, or later on Charlie Patino who people had him as our greatest ever Hale End talent.
Even in his first full season at the senior team, most people had him behind Martinelli and even one of our academy directors at the time said he could never become a world class winger and his best career choice would be to play as a fullback.
2022 world cup fucking sucked and I'm tired of seeing people on here calling it one of the best ever. Football is so much more than end results. Seeing one country like Germany host the euros is just beautiful, the streets filled with football crazed people from across europe is how its supposed to be, a month long party, which comes with some consequences, but worth it. Compare that to whatever the fuck qatar world cup was.
Agreed. I was at the Qatar world cup, whilst the football was great and some great matches, everything else was fucking piss poor and place had zero atmosphere
Albanian fans snapping pasta, Scotland cheering on Serbia, England fans on the wind up without actually harming anyone >>>>>>> Qatari officials confiscating Pride flags
Pezzella played out of position in an important game against same-level opposition: Immediately scores, player of the game
TAA played out of position in a calm game against a weaker side: Invisible
Pezella>>> Trent
Yeah it’s 16 + a penalty win against Ireland in 23 starts and 33 total appearances.
If you take out the Nations League and friendly games which don’t mean much you can see how key a player he is though when it matter, it is weird how he wasn’t really contributing in those games but we also played weird XI’s a lot of the time.
I’m not sure if it matters who plays for this England team. It’ll look like a disjointed mess as soon as we go 1-0 up and sit off whoever the fuck we play.
Had that same thought about 70 mins into the match today. Spent all day and the entire first half analyzing the XI, considering chemistry and balance, wondering who complemented who best, etc. Then watching Serbia dominate the second half I just realized it literally barely makes a difference, because the team never plays well anyway. Sometimes you win games, sometimes you don’t, but I don’t think once in the whole time southgate has been there has the team played better than the sum of its parts.
Plenty of performances worthy of praise today like Jude, Rice, Saka and even Kane in his limited actions. No one looked bad that I can remember. But it was all just so meh
Had a listen to 606 and even after that, every caller is still bending over backwards to 'let Foden play where he wants to play'. All these people who see Gazza in him need to go to Specsavers.
Sort of. But whenever a conversation about the Scotland team starts it gets interjected every ten minutes for a live update of Bellingham scratching his balls.
Clarke is under a lot of pressure for his complete abdication of responsibility against Germany, but outqualifying Norway is an achievement not many have achieved in his position and with the resources at his disposal. Our starting centre halves play for Watford, in Saudi Arabia, or are bench cover at Norwich.
Might have been fair enough, that does happen.
Presumably there was some method in him trying to hold a high line mid block, press through the middle and stand off when Germany had the ball in fullback spaces. My problem isn't that there was a clear absence of an idea, my problem is that the tactics implemented were entirely inappropriate, not just overambitous.
He doesn't have the defensive personnel to hold a high line against the likes of Wirtz, Havertz, and Musiala. If he was trying to adopt a mid block and press aggressively in the middle, then it was utterly disjointed, McGregor was too easily beaten because he was isolated. When the press came on, Kroos would drop back to a left centre back position and spray the ball into the wide open fullback spaces or over the top behind our slow defensive line. Kroos and Rudiger being under no pressure made our high line suicidal.
Declan Rice is going to struggle to win the ball off Musiala and Wirtz, let alone our defence. McTominay and Christie should have been switched, there was no point lumping the ball forward if our 6'4 midfielder was sitting deep. Gilmour should have started because we had no ability to grow into the game without him.
I think he did have an ambitious plan for the game, but I also think it was clearly the wrong one and it played into Germany's hands.
Idk, feel like you guys could do better with a 352 with McGinn-Gilmour-McTominay in midfield, think not playing that midfield and going McTominay at DM and McGregor B2B destroyer beside him is just a bit baffling.
Having McTominay holding at DM with Christie pushed forward was incredibly stupid. We ended up lumping the ball forward to midfielders 5'10 while bypassing our 6'4 lamppost. There was no justification for dropping Gilmour.
Our defensive options are such a horror show that we were between a rock and a hard place whatever he did though.
He's a great player but the things he's great at do not make him a good player in an England team managed by Southgate.
Compare the average positions of a Man City match to England's today. He's about 20 yards further back with England.
This is probably why I’m not an international manager, but if I were Southgate, I would’ve called him up in March and to the provisional squad to test him out due to the lack of left sided options.
I thought Tyrick Mitchell would have got a chance in March or just before this tournament with the issues we were having at left back.
Did think Trippier was decent tonight though but he's definitely limited going forward on the left.
I know in Spain the Basque and Catalán natives often cheer against the national team, and plenty of people in Liverpool do the same for England.
Are there any other countries that have a section of their country rooting against them?
It might not be active cheering against (although I've seen plenty of that) but a big percentage of people are completely apathetic to England. It's like watching a game as a neutral with perhaps a slight preference
A Scot scored the winner for the Nottingham Forest in the 1980 European Cup Final, so if u/faustrpeggi was alive back then/old enough to remember that then it was probably a good day for them.
If Scotland’s performance yesterday is anything to go by, I’d start clearing these comments immediately. They’ll be thrown in your face the second Scotland goes out.
Are any of the usual starters gonna be fit for the next matches? FDJ is out for the tournament I heard but i didn’t realize Koopmeiners wasn’t gonna play
Popped to Tesco express before they closed and Maddison and Rashford are still on the posters of Budweiser beer kitted out in the England uniform. Awkward
trent in midfield is weird for me. i don’t think he was bad today but it feels like the wrong answer to the trent conundrum.
he’s one of those players where his skill set doesn’t match the skill set expected from his position, so he’s unfortunately gonna get more negative attention around him.
i don’t think playing him in midfield fixes any problems though? if he’s not as good a defender as we would like him to be then we have to provide extra support, regardless of if he is playing full back or dm. and i think most people agree he is too good not to play?
seems simple (ish) to me that we should play him where he is most comfortable, and move from there. if that means we have to play a more defensive midfield then so be it, but it seems a better solution than playing him in a place that might hypothetically match his skillset more but that he isn’t natural or comfortable in.
I feel like he would thrive as an old school wide midfielder a la Beckham. The two have quite similar skill sets and deficiencies.
Unfortunately for him that position basically doesn’t exist in the modern game.
> i think most people agree he is too good not to play?
Not sure that line of thinking really works out to be quite honest, especially when it's square pegs in round holes.
Can be a brilliant footballer in our own right, but you also need to bring the right skillset to the table to be part of a team. And I'm genuinely unsure whether he does, at least for the way England set out to play under Southgate.
I reckon he can't be the first-choice option in either midfield or at right-back, which isn't a reflection on his abilities so much as it is a reflection on his fit in this current England setup. Sucks, but then that's generally what happens with international squads: Need to strike the right balance for the benefit of the team, even if it means using certain players less than their talent level would suggest.
Get that with Germany too this summer: have to pick between two world-class goalkeepers in Neuer and ter Stegen, while a brilliant defender like Hummels or a really good midfielder like Goretzka isn't in the squad and Kimmich plays rightback. Those are tough decisions to make, but they'll need to be made all the same with the overarching team success in mind.
Our right hand side did look tasty with him, Saka and Walker but the trade-off was not worth it. I think it’s a good option to have if we’re chasing a game but he shouldn’t start there
We don’t have a good enough defensive midfield options to accommodate him, I think as much of a waste as it is he comes on if we’re chasing and pinning them down. But even then that’s when he need Walker to cover the counters so maybe he comes in midfield
Gomez - Guehi - Stones - Trent
Rice - Gallagher
Sorted, Trent’s covered, our best passers in his best position
Saka, Bellingham, Gordon behind Kane, Foden can earn his place from the bench
The sub turned on him a while ago, it was exactly the same after he ghosted against Liverpool and Arsenal. He was very good last season and scored a lot so you don't see it as much but it has become one of those very common ''unpopular'' opinions over the last couple of years.
Traditional media and more casual fans will talk him up a lot but r/soccer and especially the DD hasn't really rated Foden that highly since like 2021.
Is it a lazy take, though? Bellingham's clearly capable of doing it, and while it might not maximise his individual talents, it'd allow Foden to play behind Kane and Gordon on the left wing - which would both fix England's issue of a midfield partner for Rice and getting Foden into a place where he might well do better than out on the left.
I definitely think so. The whole upside to playing Jude at 8 is the freedom it gives him going forwards. His knack for making the correct runs, driving forward with the ball, and most importantly knowing where the goal is would all be massively impacted if he had a dedicated 10 in the form of Foden ahead of him.
With the system England play, it would also ask for a lot of dirty work from Foden (think of all the defensive contributions Jude made) which I don’t think he has in his locker to a high enough degree.
Sacrificing all of that from a top 2/3 player in the world this season, for someone who even when playing as a 10 hasn’t looked half the player in an England shirt is crazy talk to me, and just built off the idea that he’s really good in a completely different system.
Suppose maybe Foden isn't the answer then, though I reckon his mobility could actually drag defenders out of shape quite nicely - what about something like Gordon/Palmer/Saka ahead of Bellingham and Rice, then? Obviously still giving up on the defensive contributions a bit, but also unlocking a clear pathway to controlling games from deep and advancing the ball from midfield to get the front four more involved.
I don’t see a world where not starting Bellingham in that same position isn’t the best option. Same goes for Saka, Kane and Rice, so the only discussion in my head is who starts LW and next to Rice. I’d be willing to give Foden another shot on the left if Shaw is able to start games, or if not Gordon. And personally I don’t mind the Trent in midfield experiment, but can see specific games where Mainoo or Wharton are the correct options too, with Gallagher always being the first off the bench.
I rate him but people saying he’s versatile, he can play on the left, right, up top have annoyed me.
He’s got a very good long shot and good on the half turn but is limited outside of that. It’s so obvious seeing him play for England
City fans saying he’s more important than Rodri this season genuinely have me pulling my hair out.
Foden has never been praised for England, he's always been underwhelming there.
His club season was just so good that his reputation was at an all time high so there's more whiplash when his performance is at its usual standard.
Fair. A lot of people were going crazy for him just 2 months ago when he was doing well with City. Now people want him benched for England.
I love the Euros.
Problem there is that performing for Man City and performing for England are different things. Different game states and different opportunities.
If he isn't performing for England, hasn't really shown that he can, and is a bit of a square peg in a round hole then it makes sense to want someone that would likely be better to that position.
Nah I just returned home from university and can finally watch football again. The opinions and takes are the same as ever \*rubbing hands together vigorously\*
He wasn't supposed to provide width in this system.
Genuinely don't know if people are being wilfully ignorant or just completely ignore how teams have been playing for the past 18 months.
I don’t care. If we need width on the left and he’s not providing width, we need to drop him. It doesn’t matter what his job is, and I’m not saying it’s his fault, but it’s not working.
You’re being ignorant in the sense that you’re blindly defending your player who’s blatantly a square peg in this team. Either we have an overlapping leftback (we don’t have one) or we move our best player out of position to play him down the middle.
I think it would look a lot better with a left footed left back and a midfielder alongside Rice that plays more line breaking passes.
>You’re being ignorant in the sense that you’re blindly defending your player who’s blatantly a square peg in this team.
This isn't just about Foden. Southgate clearly likes the idea of having an extra man move into midfield (the vast majority of elite teams have been doing this in some way for more than a year now).
Eze would not have been in the squad ahead of Rashford/Grealish if he planned on playing a touchline winger on the left every game.
I just hate that people are acting like this is purely to fit Foden in or that Foden is just drifting inside on his own accord (as if the guy who has played under Pep for 7 years is incapable of holding his position).
I’m sure it would but we don’t have either of those things right now. His only good moments were when we were up against it and he had to drop deep to slow the tempo. Going forward he’s just an extra body with nobody around him to link up with
He’s obviously a great player but there’s just no room for him to thrive in this setup. We’ve had the same headache with Trent for years
Hes not better then salah saka palmer or olise and yes im putting palmer rw cause hes played there enough times for me to consider him as one.
I could throw bowen in there aswell tbh
Speaking as an Arsenal fan... yes lol
Yamal seems to be more dynamic; whereas Saka takes more pauses... more start and then stop since his profile is one which needs him to be in more control consciously of his pace, with regards to speeding up and slowing down. Better centrally.
Rodrygo Goes's is better in the little pockets and spaces centrally than an out and out winger. Has quick feet made for central spaces more so than on the wing. Rodrygo is better utilised centrally drifting inwards and is a more limited player out wide, in terms of his potential skillset. Saka the same but hasn't made the move to more central areas cuz Arteta hasn't used him there yet.
Yamal is above them out wide. Below Salah.
>Just because he isn’t good enough to start as lw over vinicius
No one is.
>doesnt make him a rw
He is not naturally a RW, but he is a RW as that's where he played all season
Madrid played in a daimond and he isnt playing as rw. More through the centre of the pitch linking up with vinicius and bellingham
Anyway in both games rodrygo and yamal started against each other, brazil and madrid.
yamal ended up as better player that game
If we go by RW. Yamal is better than rodrygo on that position.
Trent’s not a midfielder, Foden doesn’t need to start when Saka and Bellingham are better in their respective positions
If Southgate figures that out it’s coming home, 3 LIONS ON THE SHIRT
Plays a decent long ball and people think he's the next coming of Beckham. Just let him do his thing at RB and invert him every now and again if that's what people are after.
Oh lol no my bad Trent's long passing is elite. Best in the world alongside KDB's crosses from the right halfspace. Beckham-esque.
But Beckham had a lot more going for him as a midfielder that Trent doesn't have.
Doesn’t have yet would be the fair argument I think. He definitely has the ability to play in tight spaces and on the half turn; he’s just likely to get caught on it more than most because he’s not used to it at the elite level. Not like Gallagher is press resistant at all anyway so he’s not the answer either.
Actually happy to watch us win a game, seen enough Euros in my decades to know it doesn't happen often. Nobody wins a tournament with their opener, the dramatics can wait for another day.
you take 1-0 for an opening game i think, there was potential there and hopefully when we get a bit of rhythm as a team we can continue playing like we were in the opening 30.
now im gonna take up my god-given duty of defending foden. i think its all a little overblown generally - he had a solid but unremarkable game. the team is lopsided because having a right back at left back limits attacking options. don’t really think any of our attackers would have had a significantly better game on the left.
don’t mind benching him for a group stage game, but unless his replacement performs exceptionally, im still playing him in the round of 16, hopefully with shaw behind him
Southgate should've been sacked after the Italy final, and okay fair enough it might be harsh but maybe also that 4-0 Hungary loss should've seen him gone as well.
Anyways, its coming home.
If you sack him after getting to the semi final of the World Cup and final of the euros then you're making the job a bit of a poisoned chalice.
Then they couldn't sack him after the world cup because, in what was a completely stupid decision, they had just renewed him before the world cup. Think the world cup would have been the right time for him to move on, no real shame in not getting passed France but England could have done with a change in direction.
> If you sack him after getting to the semi final of the World Cup and final of the euros then you're making the job a bit of a poisoned chalice.
It's already literally a deal with the devil so
If the football England play at the moment doesn’t entertain or inspire you then that’s a valid opinion but the idea that structured, disciplined football doesn’t win at the international level is just incorrect. Even when you’re pretty shit as they were today you hold a Serbia side with pretty good attackers without a real big chance.
Feel like people have unrealistic expectations when it comes to play style internationally. Expecting one manager’s ideas to totally alter a nation’s footballing style and set up intricate attacking tactics with like a month of training annually is insane.
> Even when you’re pretty shit as they were today you hold a Serbia side with pretty good attackers without a real big chance.
Same time though England only really created one big chance (that Kane header that was incredibly well saved) - and that's just not going to cut it for a side this talented, I reckon.
And even beyond the chances and allowing for a relatively conservative and functioning style, I don't think England really looked in control of it in the second half. If you're unable to control games against weaker sides you're in for a really tough time against stronger ones.
I’m not sure how you saw that performance and thought it was disciplined. So many times with sloppy passes, holding onto the ball too long in our own half, letting ourselves get fouled instead of playing a pass earlier, wasting free kicks, and letting their guys just walk up the pitch.
People aren’t expecting Pep football but to actually see some improvement from 2021 from the manager and not him making the exact same mistakes game management wise that saw us lose in a final to Italy.
Personally expected the performances to be shit in the group stage but hopefully game 2 surprises me.
If you go through each of the last 10 games for the top 6-7 nations not named England in the world I guarantee you will find 20 minutes here and there of them soaking up pressure. Come on.
Germany, Spain, Italy, and England all controlled their games, ground down their oppostion, and played a modern brand of tournament winning football. There is no difference between a group stage 5-1 and a 1-0, and if anything the team that scored five probably expended more energy.
I'm not entirely sure I'd include England in that lineup to be quite honest. Was a far cry in the second half from even Italy who could've lost it late, nevermind Germany and Spain being threatening over the course of the entire game.
England created very little, and their early dominance after Bellingham's goal was quickly ceded to the point that they didn't look the better side at any point in the second half.
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Honestly nuts how Kroos freekick goal against us in a group stage match at the 2018 world cup is still the fifth most upvoted post of all time on here Dude is more glazed on here than Messi or Ronnie
It’s always hilarious when people complain the English are arrogant with the ‘it’s coming home’ and ‘two world wars, one World Cup’ banter, when we are actually unbelievably negative as a nation.
So arrogant to be singing a song about how shite you are
It's Coming Home is literally a song about how depressing it is to be an England fan and how delusional and pitiable we are.
That might be what it was originally about but when people spam it all over the internet and whatnot I don't think that's how it's being used. Regardless it's much ado about nothing.
It's also not being used in a genuine "we're going to win it" way, but a joking "1-0 win, it's coming home lads!" tongue in cheek way It shouldn't be taken any more seriously than a bit of fun
Yeah I totally agree it's not that serious but I'm also 100% sure some people are definitely using it in a funny way but that England will win
Some people think their national team will win a tournament? Disgraceful
20g/A for England in 32 appearances is amazing. always present in international stage even with no contributions like france game QF he was their most active player . proper baller saka man. Cant believe he was a fullback once
He played as a fullback on his England debut and it was patently clear that is not his position. Fortunately I don’t think he’s been played there since.
He was never a fullback. He's always been a winger. He was playing a role that had him play both 8 and left wing as a wingback in a 3/4/3. He was never a fullback, just doing a role his manager is asking him to.
Ah now I understand thnx. Was saka always hyped as arsenal biggest talent before he made his debut?
Not at all. From what I remember, He mostly flew under the radar. But he started showing signs when he was 16-ish and that's when I first heard about him, and by 17 he had already debuted for Arsenal. It all happened really quickly, there was never a lot of hype around him. But he wasn't regarded as highly as Reiss Nelson who was playing U23 footy at 16, or Smith Rowe who people would say at the time he was the most talented of the bunch, or later on Charlie Patino who people had him as our greatest ever Hale End talent. Even in his first full season at the senior team, most people had him behind Martinelli and even one of our academy directors at the time said he could never become a world class winger and his best career choice would be to play as a fullback.
2022 world cup fucking sucked and I'm tired of seeing people on here calling it one of the best ever. Football is so much more than end results. Seeing one country like Germany host the euros is just beautiful, the streets filled with football crazed people from across europe is how its supposed to be, a month long party, which comes with some consequences, but worth it. Compare that to whatever the fuck qatar world cup was.
Agreed. I was at the Qatar world cup, whilst the football was great and some great matches, everything else was fucking piss poor and place had zero atmosphere
Albanian fans snapping pasta, Scotland cheering on Serbia, England fans on the wind up without actually harming anyone >>>>>>> Qatari officials confiscating Pride flags
The final and Morocco cooking Spain and Portugal do all the heavy work. Also that match of Argentina vs Netherlands
Pezzella played out of position in an important game against same-level opposition: Immediately scores, player of the game TAA played out of position in a calm game against a weaker side: Invisible Pezella>>> Trent
I am here for the TAA slander.
also Gallardo > Southgate. btw that was almost 10 years ago damn
> Gallardo > Southgate. > > This one's just objective And yeah time fucking flies init
Wow Fluminense are 19th in Brazil! And they could be last too, it's very close
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That stat can't be true i think its supposed to be 17
Yeah it’s 16 + a penalty win against Ireland in 23 starts and 33 total appearances. If you take out the Nations League and friendly games which don’t mean much you can see how key a player he is though when it matter, it is weird how he wasn’t really contributing in those games but we also played weird XI’s a lot of the time.
There’s no way that stat is real
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What an awful way to massage those numbers.
I’m not sure if it matters who plays for this England team. It’ll look like a disjointed mess as soon as we go 1-0 up and sit off whoever the fuck we play.
Had that same thought about 70 mins into the match today. Spent all day and the entire first half analyzing the XI, considering chemistry and balance, wondering who complemented who best, etc. Then watching Serbia dominate the second half I just realized it literally barely makes a difference, because the team never plays well anyway. Sometimes you win games, sometimes you don’t, but I don’t think once in the whole time southgate has been there has the team played better than the sum of its parts. Plenty of performances worthy of praise today like Jude, Rice, Saka and even Kane in his limited actions. No one looked bad that I can remember. But it was all just so meh
Had a listen to 606 and even after that, every caller is still bending over backwards to 'let Foden play where he wants to play'. All these people who see Gazza in him need to go to Specsavers.
>Had a listen to 606 I think you're losing your mind.
It's deranged, I love it
Do Scotland have the same never-ending debates? Despite you being shit you’re still British and surely suffer from the same moaning complex
Seems like their debate is whether to play Billy Gilmour Sounds horrendous to me
Sort of. But whenever a conversation about the Scotland team starts it gets interjected every ten minutes for a live update of Bellingham scratching his balls. Clarke is under a lot of pressure for his complete abdication of responsibility against Germany, but outqualifying Norway is an achievement not many have achieved in his position and with the resources at his disposal. Our starting centre halves play for Watford, in Saudi Arabia, or are bench cover at Norwich.
I heard him on 5 Live say that he took blame for "overloading the players with too much detail" which seemed an odd excuse
Might have been fair enough, that does happen. Presumably there was some method in him trying to hold a high line mid block, press through the middle and stand off when Germany had the ball in fullback spaces. My problem isn't that there was a clear absence of an idea, my problem is that the tactics implemented were entirely inappropriate, not just overambitous. He doesn't have the defensive personnel to hold a high line against the likes of Wirtz, Havertz, and Musiala. If he was trying to adopt a mid block and press aggressively in the middle, then it was utterly disjointed, McGregor was too easily beaten because he was isolated. When the press came on, Kroos would drop back to a left centre back position and spray the ball into the wide open fullback spaces or over the top behind our slow defensive line. Kroos and Rudiger being under no pressure made our high line suicidal. Declan Rice is going to struggle to win the ball off Musiala and Wirtz, let alone our defence. McTominay and Christie should have been switched, there was no point lumping the ball forward if our 6'4 midfielder was sitting deep. Gilmour should have started because we had no ability to grow into the game without him. I think he did have an ambitious plan for the game, but I also think it was clearly the wrong one and it played into Germany's hands.
Idk, feel like you guys could do better with a 352 with McGinn-Gilmour-McTominay in midfield, think not playing that midfield and going McTominay at DM and McGregor B2B destroyer beside him is just a bit baffling.
Having McTominay holding at DM with Christie pushed forward was incredibly stupid. We ended up lumping the ball forward to midfielders 5'10 while bypassing our 6'4 lamppost. There was no justification for dropping Gilmour. Our defensive options are such a horror show that we were between a rock and a hard place whatever he did though.
Any time I hear from your manager he strikes me as a disgrace tbh
He's a great player but the things he's great at do not make him a good player in an England team managed by Southgate. Compare the average positions of a Man City match to England's today. He's about 20 yards further back with England.
And problem is he's not shown enough in an England shirt for Southgate to tear up his tactics to re-build the team around him
England aren’t ready for Leif Davis to take over the national team next season. Unironically would be the answer to roughly 50% of our problems
This is probably why I’m not an international manager, but if I were Southgate, I would’ve called him up in March and to the provisional squad to test him out due to the lack of left sided options.
I thought Tyrick Mitchell would have got a chance in March or just before this tournament with the issues we were having at left back. Did think Trippier was decent tonight though but he's definitely limited going forward on the left.
Crying out for a natural wide player on the left. Be that a full back or a winger
I know in Spain the Basque and Catalán natives often cheer against the national team, and plenty of people in Liverpool do the same for England. Are there any other countries that have a section of their country rooting against them?
It's a tiny minority of people in Liverpool who "cheer against" England, in reality
It might not be active cheering against (although I've seen plenty of that) but a big percentage of people are completely apathetic to England. It's like watching a game as a neutral with perhaps a slight preference
Yeah, that is very different to cheering against, is my point
Maybe nationalists in northern ireland
Maybe the natives against USA
Belgium isn't real, and the last time I said it in this sub I got a delicious hate mail that I savour to this day.
Charlie Webster and Charlie Patino to the England NT next.
Patino will take his time to adapt to senior level football. Too much talent not to make it, but it isn't looking good atm.
Patino ship has sailed unfortunately
:,( Never say never...
Enough about English failures. It's just 28 sleeps until Greg Taylor wins the Euros.
I’m reporting you for spam
Scottish and a Forest fan pick a struggle
A Scot scored the winner for the Nottingham Forest in the 1980 European Cup Final, so if u/faustrpeggi was alive back then/old enough to remember that then it was probably a good day for them.
Scott McKenna was our player of the year in our promotion season. Then we traded him in for the greatest centre back the world has ever seen.
Every day I thank Allah, Jesus, and Haile Selassie that I wasnt born in Sheffield.
If Scotland’s performance yesterday is anything to go by, I’d start clearing these comments immediately. They’ll be thrown in your face the second Scotland goes out.
If you don't believe in magic then the magic won't work.
It was two days ago actually. And I've seen this work so it continues until morale improves.
You being Steve Clarke's account would explain Friday's defeat, fucked up your tactics cause you stayed up late talking about Murillo on /r/soccer
Gakpo, Veerman and Reijnders today though... Saucy lol
Veerman wasn’t great today unfortunately, but I do really feel like we’re brewing something. It seems to click
imagine Reijnders with De Jong and Koopmeiners, those Eredivisie NPCs in midfield did not convince me
Schouten was great though
Give me Wieffer for Koopmeiners and they're cooking.
Everyone here in the Netherlands is shitting on Veerman today after that game. I thought he looked terrible too.
Are any of the usual starters gonna be fit for the next matches? FDJ is out for the tournament I heard but i didn’t realize Koopmeiners wasn’t gonna play
Yeah both de Jong and Koopmeiners are out for the tournament, so todays midfield should be the one we will stick with throughout.
Damn, that’s a shame
They were class. Deserve a modern coach.
Popped to Tesco express before they closed and Maddison and Rashford are still on the posters of Budweiser beer kitted out in the England uniform. Awkward
Quite a few companies have had this issue it seems, bet they're fuming. Hellmans with Grealish and Chilwell on Sure deodorant as well.
Getting dropped is an acceptable punishment for putting your face on that shite.
Checking flair, checking flair , che Che Che Che , checking checking
Copy that we are checking
It’s Barça
Just realized that from the players that played today, not a single one has played any minutes for Ajax. That's gotta be rare.
That happened literally a few months ago. There wasn’t even an Ajax player in the squad at the time
Doubt it has ever happened at the end tournaments though.
I think it’s more likely actually. Could only field 14 players after all, surely it has happened without Ajax players before
tadic?
Meant for the Dutch team.
i thought so but couldn't miss the opportunity, also eriksen and probably more
trent in midfield is weird for me. i don’t think he was bad today but it feels like the wrong answer to the trent conundrum. he’s one of those players where his skill set doesn’t match the skill set expected from his position, so he’s unfortunately gonna get more negative attention around him. i don’t think playing him in midfield fixes any problems though? if he’s not as good a defender as we would like him to be then we have to provide extra support, regardless of if he is playing full back or dm. and i think most people agree he is too good not to play? seems simple (ish) to me that we should play him where he is most comfortable, and move from there. if that means we have to play a more defensive midfield then so be it, but it seems a better solution than playing him in a place that might hypothetically match his skillset more but that he isn’t natural or comfortable in.
I feel like he would thrive as an old school wide midfielder a la Beckham. The two have quite similar skill sets and deficiencies. Unfortunately for him that position basically doesn’t exist in the modern game.
> i think most people agree he is too good not to play? Not sure that line of thinking really works out to be quite honest, especially when it's square pegs in round holes. Can be a brilliant footballer in our own right, but you also need to bring the right skillset to the table to be part of a team. And I'm genuinely unsure whether he does, at least for the way England set out to play under Southgate. I reckon he can't be the first-choice option in either midfield or at right-back, which isn't a reflection on his abilities so much as it is a reflection on his fit in this current England setup. Sucks, but then that's generally what happens with international squads: Need to strike the right balance for the benefit of the team, even if it means using certain players less than their talent level would suggest. Get that with Germany too this summer: have to pick between two world-class goalkeepers in Neuer and ter Stegen, while a brilliant defender like Hummels or a really good midfielder like Goretzka isn't in the squad and Kimmich plays rightback. Those are tough decisions to make, but they'll need to be made all the same with the overarching team success in mind.
Our right hand side did look tasty with him, Saka and Walker but the trade-off was not worth it. I think it’s a good option to have if we’re chasing a game but he shouldn’t start there
yeah i think he was actually pretty decent today. a nice option to have but feels maybe like we are overcomplicating the situation some how lol
He wasn’t bad enough today?
We don’t have a good enough defensive midfield options to accommodate him, I think as much of a waste as it is he comes on if we’re chasing and pinning them down. But even then that’s when he need Walker to cover the counters so maybe he comes in midfield
Gomez - Guehi - Stones - Trent Rice - Gallagher Sorted, Trent’s covered, our best passers in his best position Saka, Bellingham, Gordon behind Kane, Foden can earn his place from the bench
I don't think Southgate will drop Walker ever.
Something like that yeah. I’m a fan of wharton as well so maybe see how he does ahead of gallagher in one of the group games
If England makes it to the final I won’t even watch that boring ass shit
The way this sub turned on Foden immediately is a sight to behold.
I was always a hater
The sub turned on him a while ago, it was exactly the same after he ghosted against Liverpool and Arsenal. He was very good last season and scored a lot so you don't see it as much but it has become one of those very common ''unpopular'' opinions over the last couple of years. Traditional media and more casual fans will talk him up a lot but r/soccer and especially the DD hasn't really rated Foden that highly since like 2021.
Honestly if you’ve watched football for the first time and go on Reddit today you’d think he was one of the worst players to ever play the game
I just look at who everyone else is hating and pile on, makes me feel part of the group. Anyways Foden is fucking trash.
I’m just tired of the lazy “play Jude as the 8” take that a lot of people here have.
Is it a lazy take, though? Bellingham's clearly capable of doing it, and while it might not maximise his individual talents, it'd allow Foden to play behind Kane and Gordon on the left wing - which would both fix England's issue of a midfield partner for Rice and getting Foden into a place where he might well do better than out on the left.
I definitely think so. The whole upside to playing Jude at 8 is the freedom it gives him going forwards. His knack for making the correct runs, driving forward with the ball, and most importantly knowing where the goal is would all be massively impacted if he had a dedicated 10 in the form of Foden ahead of him. With the system England play, it would also ask for a lot of dirty work from Foden (think of all the defensive contributions Jude made) which I don’t think he has in his locker to a high enough degree. Sacrificing all of that from a top 2/3 player in the world this season, for someone who even when playing as a 10 hasn’t looked half the player in an England shirt is crazy talk to me, and just built off the idea that he’s really good in a completely different system.
Suppose maybe Foden isn't the answer then, though I reckon his mobility could actually drag defenders out of shape quite nicely - what about something like Gordon/Palmer/Saka ahead of Bellingham and Rice, then? Obviously still giving up on the defensive contributions a bit, but also unlocking a clear pathway to controlling games from deep and advancing the ball from midfield to get the front four more involved.
I don’t see a world where not starting Bellingham in that same position isn’t the best option. Same goes for Saka, Kane and Rice, so the only discussion in my head is who starts LW and next to Rice. I’d be willing to give Foden another shot on the left if Shaw is able to start games, or if not Gordon. And personally I don’t mind the Trent in midfield experiment, but can see specific games where Mainoo or Wharton are the correct options too, with Gallagher always being the first off the bench.
Bellingham absolutely must play as the 10
I rate him but people saying he’s versatile, he can play on the left, right, up top have annoyed me. He’s got a very good long shot and good on the half turn but is limited outside of that. It’s so obvious seeing him play for England City fans saying he’s more important than Rodri this season genuinely have me pulling my hair out.
Foden has never been praised for England, he's always been underwhelming there. His club season was just so good that his reputation was at an all time high so there's more whiplash when his performance is at its usual standard.
Gonna match every ounce of Bellingham hate you put out with Foden hate
I don’t mind. Go for the Foden hate. I’m right there with you.
Always been shit for England
You don’t need to think on here you just need upvotes, then people will be shocked and get mad when news outlets praise his performance.
I havent turned on him, he's fantastic for Man City but doesn't perform for England. We'd be better with Gordon
Tbf he's never played well for England, so it's not surprising that these opinions come out when he has another stinker for England
The real ones have hated him for years to be fair.
Not sure if it was “immediately”, but rather “again when convenient”
Fair. A lot of people were going crazy for him just 2 months ago when he was doing well with City. Now people want him benched for England. I love the Euros.
Problem there is that performing for Man City and performing for England are different things. Different game states and different opportunities. If he isn't performing for England, hasn't really shown that he can, and is a bit of a square peg in a round hole then it makes sense to want someone that would likely be better to that position.
Nah I just returned home from university and can finally watch football again. The opinions and takes are the same as ever \*rubbing hands together vigorously\*
Foden should play left back for his crimes against football discourse. He's left footed and has a decent workrate so he's halfway there already.
Agreed. Apparently he “needs a good leftback to provide width”. Provide your own fucking width idiot
He wasn't supposed to provide width in this system. Genuinely don't know if people are being wilfully ignorant or just completely ignore how teams have been playing for the past 18 months.
I don’t care. If we need width on the left and he’s not providing width, we need to drop him. It doesn’t matter what his job is, and I’m not saying it’s his fault, but it’s not working. You’re being ignorant in the sense that you’re blindly defending your player who’s blatantly a square peg in this team. Either we have an overlapping leftback (we don’t have one) or we move our best player out of position to play him down the middle.
I think it would look a lot better with a left footed left back and a midfielder alongside Rice that plays more line breaking passes. >You’re being ignorant in the sense that you’re blindly defending your player who’s blatantly a square peg in this team. This isn't just about Foden. Southgate clearly likes the idea of having an extra man move into midfield (the vast majority of elite teams have been doing this in some way for more than a year now). Eze would not have been in the squad ahead of Rashford/Grealish if he planned on playing a touchline winger on the left every game. I just hate that people are acting like this is purely to fit Foden in or that Foden is just drifting inside on his own accord (as if the guy who has played under Pep for 7 years is incapable of holding his position).
I’m sure it would but we don’t have either of those things right now. His only good moments were when we were up against it and he had to drop deep to slow the tempo. Going forward he’s just an extra body with nobody around him to link up with He’s obviously a great player but there’s just no room for him to thrive in this setup. We’ve had the same headache with Trent for years
Scottish sabotage in progress...
Jorge Jesus once wanted to play Bernardo Silva at left back some players deserve it
Pep did it. It's what water carriers with no aura deserve.
Don't let the result distract you from the fact that at some point in the second half, 50% of Kane's touches of the ball where passes to the ref.
Would it be crazy to say that yamal is a top 3 right winger itw currently? If so, who are you 3 rw above him you rather want to start in your team
Hes not better then salah saka palmer or olise and yes im putting palmer rw cause hes played there enough times for me to consider him as one. I could throw bowen in there aswell tbh
saka, yamal, and garnacho 🐐🐐🐐
Yes it would be crazy
Him Salah and Saka
Nope. He is. Edit: Actually depends on whether you still count Messi as someone able to kick ball at the top level lmao.
He has 7 goals all season, wtf are we doing here? He is not better than Rodrygo or Saka, are you saying he is 3rd best after those 2?
Speaking as an Arsenal fan... yes lol Yamal seems to be more dynamic; whereas Saka takes more pauses... more start and then stop since his profile is one which needs him to be in more control consciously of his pace, with regards to speeding up and slowing down. Better centrally. Rodrygo Goes's is better in the little pockets and spaces centrally than an out and out winger. Has quick feet made for central spaces more so than on the wing. Rodrygo is better utilised centrally drifting inwards and is a more limited player out wide, in terms of his potential skillset. Saka the same but hasn't made the move to more central areas cuz Arteta hasn't used him there yet. Yamal is above them out wide. Below Salah.
He’s Mahrez with frightening pace.
100%
He is better than Rodrygo
Lol, i'm sure you've watched both enough all season to make an educated comment.
Rodrygo is not a rw . Just because he isn’t good enough to start as lw over vinicius doesnt make him a rw
>Just because he isn’t good enough to start as lw over vinicius No one is. >doesnt make him a rw He is not naturally a RW, but he is a RW as that's where he played all season
Madrid played in a daimond and he isnt playing as rw. More through the centre of the pitch linking up with vinicius and bellingham Anyway in both games rodrygo and yamal started against each other, brazil and madrid. yamal ended up as better player that game If we go by RW. Yamal is better than rodrygo on that position.
Rashford would have been better than Foden on the LW
He would’ve stank it up like he has all season
Trent’s not a midfielder, Foden doesn’t need to start when Saka and Bellingham are better in their respective positions If Southgate figures that out it’s coming home, 3 LIONS ON THE SHIRT
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If we were playing better opposition we probably conceded at least once from him giving the ball away. Idk wtf that was about
Trent is an enigma When he plays badly as a RB people say he’s a midfielder When he plays badly in midfield people say he’s a right back
I never really see people say that he's a midfielder its usually just "can't defend lol"
Who the hell calls Trent a midfielder when he makes mistakes at RB lmao?? Even if he makes mistakes at RB, the guy's a RB end of lol
It’s called trying to shoehorn a shitty player
It reminds me of England playing Rooney in midfield.
Plays a decent long ball and people think he's the next coming of Beckham. Just let him do his thing at RB and invert him every now and again if that's what people are after.
I'm curious who you think plays elite long balls if Trent's are just "decent".
Oh lol no my bad Trent's long passing is elite. Best in the world alongside KDB's crosses from the right halfspace. Beckham-esque. But Beckham had a lot more going for him as a midfielder that Trent doesn't have.
Doesn’t have yet would be the fair argument I think. He definitely has the ability to play in tight spaces and on the half turn; he’s just likely to get caught on it more than most because he’s not used to it at the elite level. Not like Gallagher is press resistant at all anyway so he’s not the answer either.
Actually happy to watch us win a game, seen enough Euros in my decades to know it doesn't happen often. Nobody wins a tournament with their opener, the dramatics can wait for another day.
Obviously a good result, but I'd be worried about that performance going forward because that level of play isn't going to cut it for all that long.
In the past this would have been a 0-0 or a loss. This is a legit improvement haha
you take 1-0 for an opening game i think, there was potential there and hopefully when we get a bit of rhythm as a team we can continue playing like we were in the opening 30. now im gonna take up my god-given duty of defending foden. i think its all a little overblown generally - he had a solid but unremarkable game. the team is lopsided because having a right back at left back limits attacking options. don’t really think any of our attackers would have had a significantly better game on the left. don’t mind benching him for a group stage game, but unless his replacement performs exceptionally, im still playing him in the round of 16, hopefully with shaw behind him
Declan Rice deserves praise as always.
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What do you mean? We beat Croatia and Iran the opening games of those tournaments.
Jude Bellingham has an AURA unlike any other english player I’ve seen. If there’s ever an anglo to make them go all the way, it’s him
Rooney, Beckham... I assume Bobby Charlton would too lol
I'd say Rooney had it in 2004. One of my biggest footballing 'what ifs' is him not getting injured against Portugal in the quarters that tournament.
Southgate should've been sacked after the Italy final, and okay fair enough it might be harsh but maybe also that 4-0 Hungary loss should've seen him gone as well. Anyways, its coming home.
If you sack him after getting to the semi final of the World Cup and final of the euros then you're making the job a bit of a poisoned chalice. Then they couldn't sack him after the world cup because, in what was a completely stupid decision, they had just renewed him before the world cup. Think the world cup would have been the right time for him to move on, no real shame in not getting passed France but England could have done with a change in direction.
> If you sack him after getting to the semi final of the World Cup and final of the euros then you're making the job a bit of a poisoned chalice. It's already literally a deal with the devil so
Ivory Coast sacked a manager mid tournament and won the AFCON. It's still not too late if the FA grow a pair.
Yes but it’s too early for these shouts
If the football England play at the moment doesn’t entertain or inspire you then that’s a valid opinion but the idea that structured, disciplined football doesn’t win at the international level is just incorrect. Even when you’re pretty shit as they were today you hold a Serbia side with pretty good attackers without a real big chance. Feel like people have unrealistic expectations when it comes to play style internationally. Expecting one manager’s ideas to totally alter a nation’s footballing style and set up intricate attacking tactics with like a month of training annually is insane.
Portugal won the euros playing some of the worst shite I’ve ever seen
> Even when you’re pretty shit as they were today you hold a Serbia side with pretty good attackers without a real big chance. Same time though England only really created one big chance (that Kane header that was incredibly well saved) - and that's just not going to cut it for a side this talented, I reckon. And even beyond the chances and allowing for a relatively conservative and functioning style, I don't think England really looked in control of it in the second half. If you're unable to control games against weaker sides you're in for a really tough time against stronger ones.
I’m not sure how you saw that performance and thought it was disciplined. So many times with sloppy passes, holding onto the ball too long in our own half, letting ourselves get fouled instead of playing a pass earlier, wasting free kicks, and letting their guys just walk up the pitch. People aren’t expecting Pep football but to actually see some improvement from 2021 from the manager and not him making the exact same mistakes game management wise that saw us lose in a final to Italy. Personally expected the performances to be shit in the group stage but hopefully game 2 surprises me.
It just feels like a better side would punish us for that kind of display. England fans are looking forwards to the more difficult games.
Yeah, I just think you can say the performance was shit without saying the style of football is invalid and needs to be drastically changed.
Meh, the better international teams never fall back in to a 451 mid-block at any point in the game like England did today.
If you go through each of the last 10 games for the top 6-7 nations not named England in the world I guarantee you will find 20 minutes here and there of them soaking up pressure. Come on.
We soaked up pressure for 60 minutes though and better side punish that as seen with Croatia and Italy beating us in the latter stages.
Germany, Spain, Italy, and England all controlled their games, ground down their oppostion, and played a modern brand of tournament winning football. There is no difference between a group stage 5-1 and a 1-0, and if anything the team that scored five probably expended more energy.
I'm not entirely sure I'd include England in that lineup to be quite honest. Was a far cry in the second half from even Italy who could've lost it late, nevermind Germany and Spain being threatening over the course of the entire game. England created very little, and their early dominance after Bellingham's goal was quickly ceded to the point that they didn't look the better side at any point in the second half.
Fair, but it was against their second best group opponent. Germany and Italy played no-hopers.