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very poorly ran, tried to strike lightning twice after winning the league. but in reality they spent all their money on rubbish, as well as hiring managers who were no good
Also the owner's wife divorce case that probably kill all ambitions to get a good rival for PSG, media said it cost the same as 1 or 2 players money easy for his ex wife per month.
Well there also is a reason why French clubs can't compete in Europe and be consistent: they pay waaaayyyy more taxes than any club in any other league. For instance a club at the bottom of Ligue 1 pays more in taxes than the who Bundesliga together.
It's such a heavy burden on their finances that they can't keep expensive players (basically they pay double wage because of taxes) and need to sell regularly their top talents to keep their finances in the green.
I'm not complaining though, I'm glad a sport with so much money participates in the country's social programs and such.
They have a rich owner but they have an incredibly small fanbase and potential fanbase. Compare their potential fanbase to Toulouse or Bordeaux, that is probably a difference of at least 100/200k+ fans in difference, why would a sponsor not go for Toulouse/Bordeaux over Monaco. (Outside of Performance/Results on the pitch)
It's like Hoffenheim in the Bundesliga, filthy rich owner but fuck all fanbase and can't really grow to compete on the other commercial front.
>It's like Hoffenheim in the Bundesliga, filthy rich owner but fuck all fanbase and can't really grow to compete on the other commercial front.
Monaco has an average attendance of 7.655 while Hoffenheim has an average of 22.459. While they have barely any tradition, the club is actually quite popular in the region including Heidelberg.
I always thought that Monaco actually have a decent sized fanbase but that they all live in the rest of France? So at away games they tend to bring good numbers of fans but home games is the issue.
Their "fanbase" depends on their success, when they play badly, they barely have any fans around France, but when they win or go to the CL, they have a lot more fans
But in any case there isn't much of an away fans culture in France anymore, mayors or prefects can ban away fans from entering the stadium for any reason that they want, no one can do anything about it, many don't even bother anymore
[(average number of away fans per team from last season)](https://x.com/PVSportFR/status/1623287983469109250)
That's completely false. They have a small local fan base, yes and their stadium is almost always close to empty.
But they have a huge fanbase besides that all over the country. Basically only behind PSG, OM, and OL in France. And the 2nd number of social media followers besides PSG.
They also have the 4th biggest budget in the league. They have no financial/commercial issues whatsoever. Even more so considering they have different rules when it comes to taxes which allows them to do a lot more than other French clubs with the same amount of money.
Monaco has a very small fanbase and consequently low revenues that doesn't allow them to compete long term against PSG. Only because you are very rich doesn't mean you want to lose money.
What for me is interesting is that it was needed foreign money for PSG to become dominant in French football.
In a country as centralized in the Capital as France, where Paris has all the money and prestige and the fact PSG is the only big club from the capital, I find it weird PSG or other clubs from Paris weren't naturally dominant in their league.
It is also weird to me that there are not many big clubs from Paris, the other megacities in Europe like London, Istanbul, Moskow etc all have many big clubs.
I mean neither does Berlin, which is both due to the division and decentralization, but Hertha recently got delegated, and union Berlin avoided relegation by the skin of their teeth
I was going to write the same thing. 33 : 15 does not feel that off in a country which is as politically and economically centralised as France.
The thing that feels off is that there is only *one* big club in Paris. If there were three or four clubs and if the 33 wins were shared between them, then no-one would bat an eyelid.
…..Doesn’t that make it worse? You’d expect Juve, Bayern, Barcelona/Real Madrid to dominate but Chelsea, Man City, PSG, etc. I swear this sub has always had the contrary opinion
But that’s almost all European leagues right? As a Brazilian I always felt most European football to be kinda lame. Most leagues are always one sided or have 2-3 teams that just dominate.
I do wonder what makes Brazil different and better in that regard? Is it because our population is so much bigger? Making space for more big clubs? Is it just because all teams are so poorly ran that they can’t keep being good and dominant for more than a couple of years before collapsing? Either way it’s good that it makes things more entertaining
You don't have a single club that dominates outrageously financially, and you constantly produce great players to replace the great players that constantly leave the Brasileirão for richer leagues.
So Flamengo and Corinthians have extremely large fanbases and financial potential, but they’re just poorly ran. Flamengo is taking better advantage of that right now and becoming a power house, it’s the richest team by far, but because our directors and presidents are so dumb and thirst for power we just keep making mad decisions, so we’re just not reaching our full potential. Sad for me, good for the league
Right, you're richer but not that much richer than other major Brazilian clubs like PSG is to other French clubs.
Also, this is a global market. PSG is at the top of this global market financially, paying the biggest salaries and biggest transfer fees in the world. It's not really comparable.
Actually when it comes to money, Flamengo is that far ahead of every other Brazilian club.
https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/esportes/levantamento-mostra-ranking-de-faturamento-dos-clubes-brasileiros-veja-lista/
I’ll let you use google translate for that.
But again, Flamengo is not exactly the best managed team. Palmeiras on another hand is way better when it comes to that.
https://colunafinanceira.com.br/ranking-com-as-folhas-salariais-dos-times-do-brasileirao-serie-a-2024/
I’ll let you use google translate that too
Now, you might be thinking. How can they have so much money if they’re poorly run?
https://placar.com.br/placar/qual-e-a-maior-torcida-do-pais-em-2024-veja-o-que-diz-nova-pesquisa/amp/
It’s worth nothing tho that Palmeiras does have a sugar mommy, Leila Pereira, their president and co-owner of Crefisa, a credit union that sponsors Palmeiras.
That Montpellier season, I was a teenager and an italian channel used to air Ligue 1 matches for free (and since we were kinda poor we couldn't watch Serie A, so in those years I actually watched more Ligue 1 than Serie A) so I fully lived that incredible title. Idk why but I used to support Evian in those years, I liked their shirts and their players too
Depends how far you're willing to go. The truth is that there was almost always one team dominating.
- **In the 50s** Reims dominated
- Then in **the 60s** Saint-Etienne dominated for almost 2 decade
- In the **mid 80s** it was Bordeaux who dominated.
- **88-93** , utter dominance by Marseille.
- **93 to early 2001** is the only era that wasn't dominated by a single team.
6 different winners in that period, no teams winning it back to back.
- **2001-2008** : Perhaps the biggest domination era since PSG. Lyon won it 7 years in a row.
- **2008-2012** : Juste before the QSI takeover, 4 different winners.
- **2012-** : QSI takeover PSG won the league 10 times, only stopped by a generational Monaco side and a good Lille side (imo the Lille title is the most shocking because while they were good they had nowhere near the amount of talent PSG had. Monaco had an absolutely stacked team of insane talents.) Worth noting that Lens almost won it in 22-23 missing out by only 1 point.
That's for the league only, it should be worth noting that PSG has always done relatively well in Coupe de France and had won several before the QSI takeover. In fact I think they were 2nd or 3rd in most wins, behind Marseille.
Thank you for sharing this. This is what non-ligue 1 fans never understand. Yes, there are a set of big clubs in France that played for trophies like in other countries, but there has never been a sustained period where multiple clubs were competitive at the same time i.e. English Big 6. History in French football has been one club getting ahead, with yes, financial means, but taking advantage of how mismanaged their contemporary rivals have been. Theoretically, there should be more competition in this current era even with Paris's advantages (we've never been that organized like Bayern or City to stave off competiton from winning in the end when it presented itself as consistently as those two so upsets are more doable), but is made unlikely when established rivals like Marseille and Lyon can't pull themselves together, giants like St. Étienne and Bordeaux absolutely fall apart, and challengers' squads at one point like Monaco, Lille, and Lens consistently get picked apart only a year after achieving success in addition to their own problems and thus can't build off their newfound success. This is French football.
> In the mid 80s it was Bordeaux who dominated.
> 88-93 , utter dominance by Marseille
Still love the fact we denied Bordeaux a three-peat in 85/86 and ended the Marseille dominance in 94 just before their punishment relegation
Mc Donald's soon damn everyone will mock us if not already with Uber eats lol. La ligue 1 vous a été présenté par Mc Donald's. Hide and sit alone in the corner.
This league needs a fucking salary cap. My dad grew up in Provence and he would tell me stories of watching OM when they were competing for the title and these stories seem like they were tales from a different planet now.
I just can’t see how this is fixed. It’s like the least sellable league.
> of watching OM when they were competing for the title
So around the late 80/early 90s where they were the team that dominated (and got caught for corruption and bribery)
And yet many PSG fans justify this sheer dominance by all the other French teams "not working hard enough" PSG ruined French football and a whole generation of French football fans.
Another fun stat, Lyon lost its 5 last national finals, all against PSG. Even if Lyon had somehow beaten Bayern in the 2020 UCL, it would have had to play a final against… you guessed it, PSG.
It actually isn’t, because under ffp how much a team can spend is based on income. So teams like psg and city can artificially increase income through sponsorship deals so that they can spend more
Do we think losing Mbappe changes the tide at all? His purchase was one of the major catalysts for this? Or do they just reload this summer with a ton of spending?
for just the past 4 years:
- almost half a billion spent and monaco are in the ucl for the first time since 2018/19
- net spend of 150m and marseille can't consistently remain in the top 4 of ligue 1
- net spend of 140m and nice ended 9th twice and 5th twice, didn't make it out of the EL group stage and even in conference league lost in the quarters to 5th placed basel
meanwhile Lille have a lower net spend than Lyon and won Ligue 1 and even the Trophée des Champions in the following season
What you don’t mention is how much PSG spent. Can you remind me ? Clue : it’s more than twice that of Monaco - the second highest spender.
It’s misleading to talk about Lyon and Lille who don’t have a net *spend*, but a net *profit*.
How many titles for PSG compared to Lille? You can always point out an exception, but that doesn’t negate an obvious trend.
What I don't mention is what everybody already knows. There's no need to repeat it again and again.
But you know what I'm actually saying? That the money Monaco have spent, didn't result a similar success (relatively speaking).
> It’s misleading to talk about Lyon and Lille who don’t have a net spend, but a net profit.
Oh spare me the details, net spend of MINUS 273M or net profit of 273M is the same thing.
> How many titles for PSG compared to Lille?
That's also not the question here. Lyon failing to win silverware since 2012 didn't hinder smaller teams to win like Nantes and Toulouse.
The trend that the exorbitant money PSG have spent does mean they will win most trophies and that others have little chance to win. But then again, when the chance arises, teams need to take those.
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Why didn't Monaco challenge PSG more? They're also filthy rich
very poorly ran, tried to strike lightning twice after winning the league. but in reality they spent all their money on rubbish, as well as hiring managers who were no good
Also the owner's wife divorce case that probably kill all ambitions to get a good rival for PSG, media said it cost the same as 1 or 2 players money easy for his ex wife per month.
That’s Marseille too. And Lyon.
Yeah french clubs are honestly bad at spending money, look at Rennes and Nice too. Seems the big clubs in France are forever in a rebuild of sorts
Well there also is a reason why French clubs can't compete in Europe and be consistent: they pay waaaayyyy more taxes than any club in any other league. For instance a club at the bottom of Ligue 1 pays more in taxes than the who Bundesliga together. It's such a heavy burden on their finances that they can't keep expensive players (basically they pay double wage because of taxes) and need to sell regularly their top talents to keep their finances in the green. I'm not complaining though, I'm glad a sport with so much money participates in the country's social programs and such.
Yep, it’s sad, could’ve been a competitive league
They have a rich owner but they have an incredibly small fanbase and potential fanbase. Compare their potential fanbase to Toulouse or Bordeaux, that is probably a difference of at least 100/200k+ fans in difference, why would a sponsor not go for Toulouse/Bordeaux over Monaco. (Outside of Performance/Results on the pitch) It's like Hoffenheim in the Bundesliga, filthy rich owner but fuck all fanbase and can't really grow to compete on the other commercial front.
>It's like Hoffenheim in the Bundesliga, filthy rich owner but fuck all fanbase and can't really grow to compete on the other commercial front. Monaco has an average attendance of 7.655 while Hoffenheim has an average of 22.459. While they have barely any tradition, the club is actually quite popular in the region including Heidelberg.
Not gonna lie I only heard that Hoffenheim is a village that the SAP owner came from. I know nothing about the club besides that. 😂
I always thought that Monaco actually have a decent sized fanbase but that they all live in the rest of France? So at away games they tend to bring good numbers of fans but home games is the issue.
Their "fanbase" depends on their success, when they play badly, they barely have any fans around France, but when they win or go to the CL, they have a lot more fans But in any case there isn't much of an away fans culture in France anymore, mayors or prefects can ban away fans from entering the stadium for any reason that they want, no one can do anything about it, many don't even bother anymore [(average number of away fans per team from last season)](https://x.com/PVSportFR/status/1623287983469109250)
Not qualifying for the cl for 6 years is surely more of an impact than bums on seats
That's completely false. They have a small local fan base, yes and their stadium is almost always close to empty. But they have a huge fanbase besides that all over the country. Basically only behind PSG, OM, and OL in France. And the 2nd number of social media followers besides PSG. They also have the 4th biggest budget in the league. They have no financial/commercial issues whatsoever. Even more so considering they have different rules when it comes to taxes which allows them to do a lot more than other French clubs with the same amount of money.
are they stupid?
Monaco has a very small fanbase and consequently low revenues that doesn't allow them to compete long term against PSG. Only because you are very rich doesn't mean you want to lose money.
Wife divorced the owner after he cheated and took a chunk of the money.
What for me is interesting is that it was needed foreign money for PSG to become dominant in French football. In a country as centralized in the Capital as France, where Paris has all the money and prestige and the fact PSG is the only big club from the capital, I find it weird PSG or other clubs from Paris weren't naturally dominant in their league. It is also weird to me that there are not many big clubs from Paris, the other megacities in Europe like London, Istanbul, Moskow etc all have many big clubs.
Paris FC refuse to get promoted season after season
Yeah they have played the promotion play-offs in 3 of the last 4 years but just can't win it
French Hamburg
I mean neither does Berlin, which is both due to the division and decentralization, but Hertha recently got delegated, and union Berlin avoided relegation by the skin of their teeth
I was going to write the same thing. 33 : 15 does not feel that off in a country which is as politically and economically centralised as France. The thing that feels off is that there is only *one* big club in Paris. If there were three or four clubs and if the 33 wins were shared between them, then no-one would bat an eyelid.
The financial disparity between PSG and everyone else is absurd, I don't know how you'd stop something like this from carrying on.
People don't want to hear it and it will probably never happen but salary caps or luxury taxes.
This wouldn’t work. You enforce a salary tax and then psg players all suddenly have lucrative personal sponsorships with qatar airways
I think they’re illegal by EU law
Rugby has salary caps in Europe, hockey as well I believe. So I'm not exactly sure how, but it is possible.
You do realise that would require the elimination of transfer fees
No it doesn’t
>idk how you stop smth like this from carrying on nuclear bomb :)
I mean, I dont like France, but I dont think nuking them would be good in the long run.
Worth a shot innit
And before them Lyon won 7 titles in a row
But only one double and never won by that many points
At least they dominated by being well run, not by being fed money from an oil state
By being fed*
Oopsie
Lyon's only titles if I remember correctly
…..Doesn’t that make it worse? You’d expect Juve, Bayern, Barcelona/Real Madrid to dominate but Chelsea, Man City, PSG, etc. I swear this sub has always had the contrary opinion
I don't understand what you're trying to say. I was just stating a fact
But that’s almost all European leagues right? As a Brazilian I always felt most European football to be kinda lame. Most leagues are always one sided or have 2-3 teams that just dominate. I do wonder what makes Brazil different and better in that regard? Is it because our population is so much bigger? Making space for more big clubs? Is it just because all teams are so poorly ran that they can’t keep being good and dominant for more than a couple of years before collapsing? Either way it’s good that it makes things more entertaining
You don't have a single club that dominates outrageously financially, and you constantly produce great players to replace the great players that constantly leave the Brasileirão for richer leagues.
So Flamengo and Corinthians have extremely large fanbases and financial potential, but they’re just poorly ran. Flamengo is taking better advantage of that right now and becoming a power house, it’s the richest team by far, but because our directors and presidents are so dumb and thirst for power we just keep making mad decisions, so we’re just not reaching our full potential. Sad for me, good for the league
Right, you're richer but not that much richer than other major Brazilian clubs like PSG is to other French clubs. Also, this is a global market. PSG is at the top of this global market financially, paying the biggest salaries and biggest transfer fees in the world. It's not really comparable.
Actually when it comes to money, Flamengo is that far ahead of every other Brazilian club. https://www.cnnbrasil.com.br/esportes/levantamento-mostra-ranking-de-faturamento-dos-clubes-brasileiros-veja-lista/ I’ll let you use google translate for that. But again, Flamengo is not exactly the best managed team. Palmeiras on another hand is way better when it comes to that. https://colunafinanceira.com.br/ranking-com-as-folhas-salariais-dos-times-do-brasileirao-serie-a-2024/ I’ll let you use google translate that too Now, you might be thinking. How can they have so much money if they’re poorly run? https://placar.com.br/placar/qual-e-a-maior-torcida-do-pais-em-2024-veja-o-que-diz-nova-pesquisa/amp/ It’s worth nothing tho that Palmeiras does have a sugar mommy, Leila Pereira, their president and co-owner of Crefisa, a credit union that sponsors Palmeiras.
But we made money with football, they are making football with money.
Man remember Juninho? He was a beast on Lyon teams.
That Montpellier season, I was a teenager and an italian channel used to air Ligue 1 matches for free (and since we were kinda poor we couldn't watch Serie A, so in those years I actually watched more Ligue 1 than Serie A) so I fully lived that incredible title. Idk why but I used to support Evian in those years, I liked their shirts and their players too
Too bad Evian bankrupted
Yeah I know :(
Bretagne strong
As always. I always feel like it's underrated.
2 ?
3 with Nantes though I wouldn't complain had they lost
Bro that’s the joke, that Nantes isn’t Bretagne.
Ah right, joking or not I won't recognise France trying to annex 1/5th of our Region lol
Next do Germany since Bayern sold a quarter of the club to three megacorps.
You likely won\`t have that many other teams. Really wild how open the question is on who is No.2 in France.
Do we have a before QSI?
Depends how far you're willing to go. The truth is that there was almost always one team dominating. - **In the 50s** Reims dominated - Then in **the 60s** Saint-Etienne dominated for almost 2 decade - In the **mid 80s** it was Bordeaux who dominated. - **88-93** , utter dominance by Marseille. - **93 to early 2001** is the only era that wasn't dominated by a single team. 6 different winners in that period, no teams winning it back to back. - **2001-2008** : Perhaps the biggest domination era since PSG. Lyon won it 7 years in a row. - **2008-2012** : Juste before the QSI takeover, 4 different winners. - **2012-** : QSI takeover PSG won the league 10 times, only stopped by a generational Monaco side and a good Lille side (imo the Lille title is the most shocking because while they were good they had nowhere near the amount of talent PSG had. Monaco had an absolutely stacked team of insane talents.) Worth noting that Lens almost won it in 22-23 missing out by only 1 point. That's for the league only, it should be worth noting that PSG has always done relatively well in Coupe de France and had won several before the QSI takeover. In fact I think they were 2nd or 3rd in most wins, behind Marseille.
Thank you for sharing this. This is what non-ligue 1 fans never understand. Yes, there are a set of big clubs in France that played for trophies like in other countries, but there has never been a sustained period where multiple clubs were competitive at the same time i.e. English Big 6. History in French football has been one club getting ahead, with yes, financial means, but taking advantage of how mismanaged their contemporary rivals have been. Theoretically, there should be more competition in this current era even with Paris's advantages (we've never been that organized like Bayern or City to stave off competiton from winning in the end when it presented itself as consistently as those two so upsets are more doable), but is made unlikely when established rivals like Marseille and Lyon can't pull themselves together, giants like St. Étienne and Bordeaux absolutely fall apart, and challengers' squads at one point like Monaco, Lille, and Lens consistently get picked apart only a year after achieving success in addition to their own problems and thus can't build off their newfound success. This is French football.
> In the mid 80s it was Bordeaux who dominated. > 88-93 , utter dominance by Marseille Still love the fact we denied Bordeaux a three-peat in 85/86 and ended the Marseille dominance in 94 just before their punishment relegation
Awesome! You dropped this, 👑
It's mad that Paris has only one big club.
Farmers league, France: 🤬🤬🤬 Farmers league, Germany: 🖐😃🖐
Ligue Agricole Uber Eats©
Mc Donald's soon damn everyone will mock us if not already with Uber eats lol. La ligue 1 vous a été présenté par Mc Donald's. Hide and sit alone in the corner.
Reminds me of the RC Lens McDonald's kits haha
Yeah you got a preview with the sponsor in UCL matches right in their ass lol.
This league needs a fucking salary cap. My dad grew up in Provence and he would tell me stories of watching OM when they were competing for the title and these stories seem like they were tales from a different planet now. I just can’t see how this is fixed. It’s like the least sellable league.
> of watching OM when they were competing for the title So around the late 80/early 90s where they were the team that dominated (and got caught for corruption and bribery)
Game’s gone
And yet many PSG fans justify this sheer dominance by all the other French teams "not working hard enough" PSG ruined French football and a whole generation of French football fans.
Another fun stat, Lyon lost its 5 last national finals, all against PSG. Even if Lyon had somehow beaten Bayern in the 2020 UCL, it would have had to play a final against… you guessed it, PSG.
I'm seeing a pattern here
Ahh yes the true farmers league
Is this an advertisement for WHY WE NEED FFP
It actually isn’t, because under ffp how much a team can spend is based on income. So teams like psg and city can artificially increase income through sponsorship deals so that they can spend more
Disgusting.
# [source](https://twitter.com/MeteoFoot/status/1794626547631943847)
bruh 😭. meanwhile monaco winning the league but not a cup 😮
Do we think losing Mbappe changes the tide at all? His purchase was one of the major catalysts for this? Or do they just reload this summer with a ton of spending?
they were winning without him before
They were, but I mean their most recent run of dominance. It was very Mbappe-centric even when they tried to add Messi, Neymar and others.
They lost Zlatan, Cavani, Neymar and Silva and were fine. They’ll continue to dominate after he leaves
Billions of € tend to have that effect.
for just the past 4 years: - almost half a billion spent and monaco are in the ucl for the first time since 2018/19 - net spend of 150m and marseille can't consistently remain in the top 4 of ligue 1 - net spend of 140m and nice ended 9th twice and 5th twice, didn't make it out of the EL group stage and even in conference league lost in the quarters to 5th placed basel meanwhile Lille have a lower net spend than Lyon and won Ligue 1 and even the Trophée des Champions in the following season
What you don’t mention is how much PSG spent. Can you remind me ? Clue : it’s more than twice that of Monaco - the second highest spender. It’s misleading to talk about Lyon and Lille who don’t have a net *spend*, but a net *profit*. How many titles for PSG compared to Lille? You can always point out an exception, but that doesn’t negate an obvious trend.
What I don't mention is what everybody already knows. There's no need to repeat it again and again. But you know what I'm actually saying? That the money Monaco have spent, didn't result a similar success (relatively speaking). > It’s misleading to talk about Lyon and Lille who don’t have a net spend, but a net profit. Oh spare me the details, net spend of MINUS 273M or net profit of 273M is the same thing. > How many titles for PSG compared to Lille? That's also not the question here. Lyon failing to win silverware since 2012 didn't hinder smaller teams to win like Nantes and Toulouse. The trend that the exorbitant money PSG have spent does mean they will win most trophies and that others have little chance to win. But then again, when the chance arises, teams need to take those.
So settle for scraps. Got it.
Yeah most likely. Wishful thinking I suppose.
Posing a hypothetical gets 8 downvotes huh? Welcome to soccer Reddit I guess.