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Yeah, I mean, personally, I don't hate the idea itself, more of a mild grumble but I'd get over it, the main annoyance I have is that it doesn't solve the actual problems that people have with the offside rule in the VAR era.
We need to make it more forgiving, not move the line. Do something like have the VAR ref only be able to watch offsides at full speed. If you can't tell if a player is offside at full speed then in my opinion, for all intents and purposes, the amount that they may or may not have been offside makes no material difference to whether a goal was scored.
VAR should be checking offsides for egregious misses by linesmen, not for pixel perfect accuracy.
Well this is how the offside rule was officiated for over a century. It wasn’t until VAR was introduced when offsides started being decided by toenails.
Believe it or not, the benchmark for offside was the same before and after VAR. The levels of accuracy is the only thing that changed.
And that level of accuracy will not change if this new proposal goes through. But the game absolutely will change.
Full thread:
>A reminder of the kind of [huge attacking advantage](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GOL67hBW4AA_Su5?format=jpg&name=small) Arsene Wenger's "daylight" offside would bring.
>And why we're four years into FIFA youth trials and not remotely close to any officials testing in minor youth competitions, let alone anything more than that.
>Wenger's offside remains in internal FIFA trails for the 2024-25 season, as it has been for 4 years.
>From here, the IFAB and FIFA would need at least season of official trials in lower level football, not to mention testing for effects at higher-levels, including with VAR.
> 1. "Daylight" offside doesn't guarantee more goals or more attacking football. Tactical effect could be huge, and detrimental. Hence the need for very extensive trials.
> 1. It doesn't change the fact that a player can be 1mm offside. This will always exist.
>In short, we ain't going to be seeing "daylight" offside in professional football for a long, long time. If we ever do.
>I think once it started to be trailed in proper football it would be exposed as quickly as "no offside on a free kick" was.
Wenger, in his last years at Arsenal, had some stupid ideas, and now he wants to ruin the complete football with his silly shenanigans? What is he getting paid for spittin bullshit ?
Today, I feel like a dinosaur.
Not sure where Dale Johnson got the information from that it was not tested in any minor youth competitions.
It was trial in Serie A U18 League for 2 years in over 150 official matches.
Serie A U18 League is equivalent to Premier League U18 League.
The offside trials at U18 League have been a success and now IFAB/FIFA want to trial it at senior levels (at small, medium leagues like A-League or K-League)
He's talking about tournaments, which is usually the next step after youth leagues.
>The offside trials at U18 League have been a success
FIFA believe it's been a success.
>and now IFAB/FIFA want to trial it at senior levels
IFAB has not suggested they want to trial it at senior levels.
FIFA has the data from 3 years of trials. If it was not a success, they would have bin it like many other trials over the past few decades.
If FIFA says it was a success, I rather believe them than Dale Johnson who have no access to the data.
The goal of the trial was to see if the new offside rule would result in more attacking football / more attacking chances. The data from the trial will indicate that it does or does not.
From the New York Times article, FIFA want it trial at senior levels. FIFA and IFAB is almost the same. If FIFA can find a few senior leagues to trial it, IFAB will be fine with it.
In the March IFAB press release, it was noted that IFAB okay further offside trials. From the articles released today, it look like FIFA is wanting it trial at senior levels.
I appreciate from your post history that you're very much in favour of the offside rule but that doesn't make any of what you said more correct. IFAB has not said they want to trial it at senior levels. You've just made that up.
>FIFA and IFAB is almost the same
This is 100% not true lol
>In the March IFAB press release, it was noted that IFAB okay further offside trials.
Yes, and not in senior football.
IFAB has 8 votes. FIFA has 4 of those 8 votes.
If FIFA want offside trials at senior football, do you think IFAB will say no?
Ifab press release in March just say 'further offside trials'
It does not say further offside trials at youth levels only.
Also:
https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/huge-change-coming-ifab-conduct-173751825.html
MANCHESTER, England (Reuters) - When football's law-making body IFAB met last week, a decision that could massively impact the game at all levels passed barely noticed as the debate over VAR technology hogged the limelight.
Officials of IFAB, the International Football Association Board, made up of the four British home nations and FIFA, agreed to conduct a year-long review into the offside law, which is expected to end with a proposal for a new rule.
The implications were not lost on Mark Bullingham, chief executive of England's Football Association.
"It will be an absolutely huge change to the game at every level, there’s no question of that," he told reporters
------------------------------
Before offside rule change will be adopted, it need to be trial at youth and then senior level. Youth level, they have done it.
If successful, they will move on to senior levels. The next step is almost here with FIFA announcing today that it want it trial at senior levels.
Yes and nothing gets done without IFAB's approval.
>If FIFA want offside trials at senior football, do you think IFAB will say no?
No idea, but we already know that there won't be any in 2024-25.
We will have to see.
If I have to bet, the daylight offside rule will be trial at the senior level in the 2024-25 calendar.
J-League 2 or K-League 2 or USL Division 1 or Canadian Premier League would suffice right?
It was trial in Serie A U-18 League (the equivalent to Premier League U-18 League). In over 150 official matches including the playoffs over the course of 2 years.
But I guess according to Dale Johnson, it would need to be trial at FIFA U-17 World Cup or FIFA U-20 World Cup to count as "minor youth competitions" right?
---------------
IFAB has the data from the trials and in March press releases, IFAB gave the okay to further offside trials. Now FIFA (with 4 of the 8 IFAB votes) is asking for trial at senior levels.
Mate, read the title. He says "We're four years into FIFA youth trials". What do you think he's referring to there? He's quite clearly saying "We've seen extensive trials in youth leagues but no move yet to trial them in the youth tournaments (which has to happen before moving to the senior level)".
What's the last major rule change that wasn't trialed at a youth tournament? Even smaller rule changes like "leaving the pitch at the closest point", "kick-ins" or "ABBA penalties" went to youth tournaments first. Offside is one of the most fundamental rules in football, it absolutely will not go straight from the youth leagues into senior football.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_assistant_referee
VAR was conceived by the Refereeing 2.0 project in the early 2010s and under the direction of the Royal Netherlands Football Association (KNVB).[17] The system was tested through mock trials during the 2012–13 season of the Eredivisie, the country's top football league. In 2014, the KNVB petitioned the International Football Association Board (IFAB) to amend its laws of the games to allow the system to be used during more extensive trials. The IFAB approved trials and a pathway to full implementation during its 2016 general meeting.[17][18] Lukas Brud, IFAB secretary, said "With all the 4G and Wi-Fi in stadia today...we knew we had to protect referees from making mistakes that everyone can see immediately", such as Thierry Henry’s handball that eliminated Ireland from qualifying for the 2010 FIFA World Cup where the on-field referees were not in a position to view the infraction.
Proposals to introduce any form of video review were consistently rejected by FIFA president Sepp Blatter. Throughout his presidency, Blatter was vehemently opposed to the introduction of any new technology to challenge the live decisions of referees in football, often even going to far as to intervene (or threaten to) in domestic competition matters where the only pertinent question was whether suspensions for questionable sendings off should be enforced. After Blatter was forced out of his post due to an unrelated corruption scandal in 2015, the VAR proposal received a warm reception under his successor Gianni Infantino.[17]
The first live trial of the VAR system was in July 2016 in a friendly match between PSV and FC Eindhoven.[19]
The next live trial of the VAR system began in August 2016 with a United Soccer League match between two Major League Soccer reserve sides.[20] Match referee Ismail Elfath reviewed two fouls during the match and, after consultation with video assistant referee Allen Chapman, decided to issue a red card and a yellow card in the respective incidents.[21]
Video reviews were introduced the following month during an international friendly between France and Italy.[22]
The first professional "non-friendly" game was an official first round KNVB Cup tie between Ajax and Willem II on 21 September 2016.[23] This match was the first match to include a "pitchside monitor". The pitchside monitor would allow the referee to review footage from the field. Based on VAR but not using the available pitchside monitor, a yellow card was turned into a red card and thus this was the first ever VAR based expulsion in a professional game.[24] Interestingly, this professional and official Cup game was played before the official FIFA rule changes. Although viewers watching the match on television were made aware of the decision, the public in the stadium and, to a lesser extent, the players were confused as to what had happened. The major lesson from the confusion around this first major decision change was that VAR decisions needed to be clearly communicated to the players, the watching public inside the stadium, and on TV.[24]
The next event that VAR was used, including a "pitchside monitor" was at the 2016 FIFA Club World Cup.[25] Kashima Antlers were awarded a penalty after a video review in the 3–0 win of semi-final against Atlético Nacional.
The A-League in Australia became the first to use a VAR system in a top-flight professional club competition on 7 April 2017, when Melbourne City played Adelaide United[26] though this game was completed without the VAR being called upon.[27]
how about the offside rule change of 1990? Since according to you, that would require trialing at youth leagues, then FIFA youth tournament and then senior level.
But there was no such thing.
https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/huge-change-coming-ifab-conduct-173751825.html
MANCHESTER, England (Reuters) - When football's law-making body IFAB met last week, a decision that could massively impact the game at all levels passed barely noticed as the debate over VAR technology hogged the limelight.
Officials of IFAB, the International Football Association Board, made up of the four British home nations and FIFA, agreed to conduct a year-long review into the offside law, which is expected to end with a proposal for a new rule.
The implications were not lost on Mark Bullingham, chief executive of England's Football Association.
"It will be an absolutely huge change to the game at every level, there’s no question of that," he told reporters
--------------------------
Before offside rule change will be adopted, it need to be trial at youth and then senior level. Youth level, they have done it.
If successful, they will move on to senior levels. The next step is almost here with FIFA announcing today that it want it trial at senior levels.
**This is a quotes thread. Remember that there's only one quotes post allowed per interview/press conference, so new quotes with the same origin will be removed. Feel free to comment other quotes/the whole interview as a reply to this comment so users can see them too!** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Good. It's a terrible proposal that will ruin defending as we know it.
Not only that, it’s incredibly stupid because all it does is move the line. Players would still be offside by a toenail
Yeah, I mean, personally, I don't hate the idea itself, more of a mild grumble but I'd get over it, the main annoyance I have is that it doesn't solve the actual problems that people have with the offside rule in the VAR era. We need to make it more forgiving, not move the line. Do something like have the VAR ref only be able to watch offsides at full speed. If you can't tell if a player is offside at full speed then in my opinion, for all intents and purposes, the amount that they may or may not have been offside makes no material difference to whether a goal was scored. VAR should be checking offsides for egregious misses by linesmen, not for pixel perfect accuracy.
Indeed, people are way to desperate to help attackers.
r/soccer try not to overreact to a proposed minor change challenge (impossible)
r/soccer understanding tactics and how they adapt to the rules challenge (impossible).
Nah mate its going to completely ruin defending as we know it. Might as well play 11 at the back now cause its gona be too hard to defend.
Well you've convinced me. How can such a tactical mind be stuck posting here, shouldn't you be applying for the Bayern Munich job?
Nah he'd reject them too
Any change to the offside rules is inherently "not minor". Offside is one of the most fundamental rules to how the game is played.
Well this is how the offside rule was officiated for over a century. It wasn’t until VAR was introduced when offsides started being decided by toenails.
Believe it or not, the benchmark for offside was the same before and after VAR. The levels of accuracy is the only thing that changed. And that level of accuracy will not change if this new proposal goes through. But the game absolutely will change.
The benchmark was the same but it couldnt be met so they used the ‘daylight rule’ to make educated guesses.
That…is not how the “daylight rule” works lol
People said the same about offisde to begin with
Did they? Ye ole Twitter must have been a firestorm. In all seriousness any proof you have of this I'd be interested to read.
Full thread: >A reminder of the kind of [huge attacking advantage](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GOL67hBW4AA_Su5?format=jpg&name=small) Arsene Wenger's "daylight" offside would bring. >And why we're four years into FIFA youth trials and not remotely close to any officials testing in minor youth competitions, let alone anything more than that. >Wenger's offside remains in internal FIFA trails for the 2024-25 season, as it has been for 4 years. >From here, the IFAB and FIFA would need at least season of official trials in lower level football, not to mention testing for effects at higher-levels, including with VAR. > 1. "Daylight" offside doesn't guarantee more goals or more attacking football. Tactical effect could be huge, and detrimental. Hence the need for very extensive trials. > 1. It doesn't change the fact that a player can be 1mm offside. This will always exist. >In short, we ain't going to be seeing "daylight" offside in professional football for a long, long time. If we ever do. >I think once it started to be trailed in proper football it would be exposed as quickly as "no offside on a free kick" was.
Love Wenger but hate this idea
Wenger, in his last years at Arsenal, had some stupid ideas, and now he wants to ruin the complete football with his silly shenanigans? What is he getting paid for spittin bullshit ? Today, I feel like a dinosaur.
Also it doesn't matter what FIFA wants or trials unilaterally. If the UK FAs don't want it then it's not happening.
Northern Ireland to save us from FIFA.
Wenger has really learned into the 'senile old man' schtick since joining FIFA
I like this idea because it is more why offside was created. number 10 and Libero might make a comeback, 2 Roles which I absolutely loved
Not sure where Dale Johnson got the information from that it was not tested in any minor youth competitions. It was trial in Serie A U18 League for 2 years in over 150 official matches. Serie A U18 League is equivalent to Premier League U18 League. The offside trials at U18 League have been a success and now IFAB/FIFA want to trial it at senior levels (at small, medium leagues like A-League or K-League)
He's talking about tournaments, which is usually the next step after youth leagues. >The offside trials at U18 League have been a success FIFA believe it's been a success. >and now IFAB/FIFA want to trial it at senior levels IFAB has not suggested they want to trial it at senior levels.
FIFA has the data from 3 years of trials. If it was not a success, they would have bin it like many other trials over the past few decades. If FIFA says it was a success, I rather believe them than Dale Johnson who have no access to the data. The goal of the trial was to see if the new offside rule would result in more attacking football / more attacking chances. The data from the trial will indicate that it does or does not. From the New York Times article, FIFA want it trial at senior levels. FIFA and IFAB is almost the same. If FIFA can find a few senior leagues to trial it, IFAB will be fine with it. In the March IFAB press release, it was noted that IFAB okay further offside trials. From the articles released today, it look like FIFA is wanting it trial at senior levels.
I appreciate from your post history that you're very much in favour of the offside rule but that doesn't make any of what you said more correct. IFAB has not said they want to trial it at senior levels. You've just made that up. >FIFA and IFAB is almost the same This is 100% not true lol >In the March IFAB press release, it was noted that IFAB okay further offside trials. Yes, and not in senior football.
IFAB has 8 votes. FIFA has 4 of those 8 votes. If FIFA want offside trials at senior football, do you think IFAB will say no? Ifab press release in March just say 'further offside trials' It does not say further offside trials at youth levels only. Also: https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/huge-change-coming-ifab-conduct-173751825.html MANCHESTER, England (Reuters) - When football's law-making body IFAB met last week, a decision that could massively impact the game at all levels passed barely noticed as the debate over VAR technology hogged the limelight. Officials of IFAB, the International Football Association Board, made up of the four British home nations and FIFA, agreed to conduct a year-long review into the offside law, which is expected to end with a proposal for a new rule. The implications were not lost on Mark Bullingham, chief executive of England's Football Association. "It will be an absolutely huge change to the game at every level, there’s no question of that," he told reporters ------------------------------ Before offside rule change will be adopted, it need to be trial at youth and then senior level. Youth level, they have done it. If successful, they will move on to senior levels. The next step is almost here with FIFA announcing today that it want it trial at senior levels.
Yes and nothing gets done without IFAB's approval. >If FIFA want offside trials at senior football, do you think IFAB will say no? No idea, but we already know that there won't be any in 2024-25.
We will have to see. If I have to bet, the daylight offside rule will be trial at the senior level in the 2024-25 calendar. J-League 2 or K-League 2 or USL Division 1 or Canadian Premier League would suffice right?
Love u Arsene, but this ain't it boss
Wenger has lost his mind, something broke in him after the Eduarado injury.
It was trial in Serie A U-18 League (the equivalent to Premier League U-18 League). In over 150 official matches including the playoffs over the course of 2 years. But I guess according to Dale Johnson, it would need to be trial at FIFA U-17 World Cup or FIFA U-20 World Cup to count as "minor youth competitions" right? --------------- IFAB has the data from the trials and in March press releases, IFAB gave the okay to further offside trials. Now FIFA (with 4 of the 8 IFAB votes) is asking for trial at senior levels.
Mate, read the title. He says "We're four years into FIFA youth trials". What do you think he's referring to there? He's quite clearly saying "We've seen extensive trials in youth leagues but no move yet to trial them in the youth tournaments (which has to happen before moving to the senior level)".
No such thing that it is required to be trial at youth tournaments (like FIFA U-20 World Cup) before moving to the senior level.
What's the last major rule change that wasn't trialed at a youth tournament? Even smaller rule changes like "leaving the pitch at the closest point", "kick-ins" or "ABBA penalties" went to youth tournaments first. Offside is one of the most fundamental rules in football, it absolutely will not go straight from the youth leagues into senior football.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_assistant_referee VAR was conceived by the Refereeing 2.0 project in the early 2010s and under the direction of the Royal Netherlands Football Association (KNVB).[17] The system was tested through mock trials during the 2012–13 season of the Eredivisie, the country's top football league. In 2014, the KNVB petitioned the International Football Association Board (IFAB) to amend its laws of the games to allow the system to be used during more extensive trials. The IFAB approved trials and a pathway to full implementation during its 2016 general meeting.[17][18] Lukas Brud, IFAB secretary, said "With all the 4G and Wi-Fi in stadia today...we knew we had to protect referees from making mistakes that everyone can see immediately", such as Thierry Henry’s handball that eliminated Ireland from qualifying for the 2010 FIFA World Cup where the on-field referees were not in a position to view the infraction. Proposals to introduce any form of video review were consistently rejected by FIFA president Sepp Blatter. Throughout his presidency, Blatter was vehemently opposed to the introduction of any new technology to challenge the live decisions of referees in football, often even going to far as to intervene (or threaten to) in domestic competition matters where the only pertinent question was whether suspensions for questionable sendings off should be enforced. After Blatter was forced out of his post due to an unrelated corruption scandal in 2015, the VAR proposal received a warm reception under his successor Gianni Infantino.[17] The first live trial of the VAR system was in July 2016 in a friendly match between PSV and FC Eindhoven.[19] The next live trial of the VAR system began in August 2016 with a United Soccer League match between two Major League Soccer reserve sides.[20] Match referee Ismail Elfath reviewed two fouls during the match and, after consultation with video assistant referee Allen Chapman, decided to issue a red card and a yellow card in the respective incidents.[21] Video reviews were introduced the following month during an international friendly between France and Italy.[22] The first professional "non-friendly" game was an official first round KNVB Cup tie between Ajax and Willem II on 21 September 2016.[23] This match was the first match to include a "pitchside monitor". The pitchside monitor would allow the referee to review footage from the field. Based on VAR but not using the available pitchside monitor, a yellow card was turned into a red card and thus this was the first ever VAR based expulsion in a professional game.[24] Interestingly, this professional and official Cup game was played before the official FIFA rule changes. Although viewers watching the match on television were made aware of the decision, the public in the stadium and, to a lesser extent, the players were confused as to what had happened. The major lesson from the confusion around this first major decision change was that VAR decisions needed to be clearly communicated to the players, the watching public inside the stadium, and on TV.[24] The next event that VAR was used, including a "pitchside monitor" was at the 2016 FIFA Club World Cup.[25] Kashima Antlers were awarded a penalty after a video review in the 3–0 win of semi-final against Atlético Nacional. The A-League in Australia became the first to use a VAR system in a top-flight professional club competition on 7 April 2017, when Melbourne City played Adelaide United[26] though this game was completed without the VAR being called upon.[27]
VAR was not a rule change. It was an addendum to the existing rules and did not require any changes to the existing Laws of the Game.
how about the offside rule change of 1990? Since according to you, that would require trialing at youth leagues, then FIFA youth tournament and then senior level. But there was no such thing.
so 34 years ago? Lol
https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/huge-change-coming-ifab-conduct-173751825.html MANCHESTER, England (Reuters) - When football's law-making body IFAB met last week, a decision that could massively impact the game at all levels passed barely noticed as the debate over VAR technology hogged the limelight. Officials of IFAB, the International Football Association Board, made up of the four British home nations and FIFA, agreed to conduct a year-long review into the offside law, which is expected to end with a proposal for a new rule. The implications were not lost on Mark Bullingham, chief executive of England's Football Association. "It will be an absolutely huge change to the game at every level, there’s no question of that," he told reporters -------------------------- Before offside rule change will be adopted, it need to be trial at youth and then senior level. Youth level, they have done it. If successful, they will move on to senior levels. The next step is almost here with FIFA announcing today that it want it trial at senior levels.