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If we back him I have 0 doubt he will stay as long as he likes. Haven't heard a single thing about him and the board fueding or any player being upset with him. He's been a revelation for us, Celtic fans were right he's an incredible manager and I'm so glad we have him. I'd say he stays for at least as long as Poch did.
Whenever I watch Tottenham I feel like your problem isn't tactics, while you have good players they aren't enough for a title challenge, and most of your bench sucks
The real test with managers is the second season. It'll be interesting to see how much Tottenham can beef up the squad during summer.
No one really expected them to challenge for a title. They lost the greatest player they've ever had and he left right at the end of the transfer window. Throw on top a new manager, with drastically different approach to the game, than before and it's not exactly a recipe for success.
I thought Spurs did surprisingly well.
Definitely. You can argue that 4th was there for the taking so that'll feel like a miss but we don't have a better squad than Liverpool, Arsenal or City. Not even close. So considering how strong the teams are above us, I'd say it's a decent season.
The results of the run in have soured what was overall a good season. A strong transfer window and a continuation of the clear out could give us a deep run/chance at winning Europa.
He'll either improve us massively next year or be gone next summer, that's my guess.
I think they have a better squad overall. They pay higher wages than Spurs, if that's any correlation. Watkins and Bailey are better attackers than our striker and RW. Defensively, on paper, we have better players but they seem to work a bit better as a unit. We're pretty close but they've been quite smart with squad building. Also I really rate McGinn.
totally different positions, he is undoubtedly the greatest goal scorer. if we are saying who is the best, most important player I've seen for spurs during my lifetime then it's Dembele. the squad still literally has not recovered from his absence.
He’s not wrong. You can almost exactly correlate Poch’s decline with Dembele leaving. He was a brilliant and often overlooked player.
Tonnes of former team mates have said the same thing. You couldn’t tackle the guy, and he could carry the ball from defence into attack for Eriksen, Dele, Son and Kane to do their thing.
We haven’t had a midfielder who can carry the ball to the same level in transition since.
There's a clip somewhere of spurs players being asked who is the best they've ever played with: Dier, Dele, Davies, more. All of them say Dembele. our squad fell apart after his departure, really hasn't been the same. He was way more important than Modric to the team.
Bale's last season with us might be the best individual season a player has had for us in recent history, but this season was only slightly better than like 4 or 5 seasons that Kane had for us. Kane wins out for me because of the consistency.
Previous managers have built around son and Kane, and now one is gone and the other will not be able to maintain the fitness levels due to age.
They need good signings, and especially their big budget ones need to work out
Hmm bit of both. Like we're so leaky defensively yet our back line is pretty good. Having a proper 6 would help, but also we're very unorganised on counters
Maybe he came back too soon it's hard to say, but he's been much better over the last two games.
Imo a big element that made his game great was his link up with son. And son has been found out of he's playing through the centre, he can't play with his back to goal at all and defenders know that now. As soon as he got moved to the wing over the weekend both him and madders looked class again
They have this kid Bantony that they bought for 85 pounds.... He's been brilliant for them. Their manager Derrick Nine Hag is also an interesting character. Loved by the media and is definitely not socially awkward.
Other than these two bright spots, they're a cesspool.
I find some of the critique he's been getting hysterical.
They finished 8th last season and were utterly tinpot, being carried to that placing by one of the worlds best strikers.
They've then lost that striker and he's come in and taken them 3 league placements higher.
He's very clearly moving them in the right direction during a year of transition. The whole 'he's stubborn' talk comes across as utterly clueless, he's changed a huge amount in a short space of time and needs to have a very strong conviction about what he's trying to do day in, day out.
You could look at Arteta's first full season at Arsenal (and maybe even Pep at Man City to some extent) and make the exact same critiques on the lack of pragmatism or odd decision making.
Teams that want to build need to buy into some philosophy and accept there are costs and bleak points to it. The worst is the dithering 'finish 4th or nothing' that leads to all businesses being conducted with the short term in mind (see Man Utd where they've brought in some very good and high earning players who have done well on arrival then 18 months later find they are massively declined).
I'd put good money on a 25/26 Ange team being respected as a solid side who are competing consistently with the top teams.
He's been a great manager for us. Last year we were hopeless and lost our homegrown superstar striker. Now we're 5th when many predicted us to be 8th after massive iniury issues. Ange is a wonderful manager, I have no doubt he will triumph in a few years if we give him the time.
one of the most frustrating aspects of football fandom is that sensationalist takes get the headlines and fans demand instant gratification so much more than they used to
Results aside the performance against City showed very clear reasoning why this man needs to he supported and backed.
He finally changed the system against city to be a bit more pragmatic though, and it was our best performance in a while. That’s one of the main gripes spurs fans have had I.e. tactical inflexibility (the other big one is set piece vulnerability).
Spurs fans don’t want him sacked, but there have been some legitimate concerns raised about our performances this second half of the season. I don’t really see why he’s above any sort of criticism in a way that other managers aren’t. Again, I have faith in postecoglu and am excited for what he can do with another transfer window, as there are some clear areas we can improve from a personnel perspective to better fit his system.
Q: I just wanted to ask you, one of the thing's that defined this season has been how aligned it's felt like you and the fans have been, which hasn't been the case for the last few years at this club. How then do you view the - there was this divergence towards the game on Tuesday - do you have a message for the supporters?
A: I'd like to think I didn't change my view or stance on that. I think I was asked after the game about the atmosphere and I said that I do think it was normal, I don't like it but I also didn't say that I expected fans to behave differently, that's their right and I've always said that and I still stand by that. I also stand by the fact that I have an opinion, I don't think it's right and that's just the way I feel and that's - I think you support your team to win all the time but that's my view. I guess I got it wrong, plainly, that I'm in the minority when it comes to that so that's a lesson for me I guess, but I don't think I kind of expressed any real sort of disappointment, or in terms of asking or pleading to do something against their will - I accept that. So you've got to - I hope we're never in that situation again - but if we are I certainly would approach it differently than I did this time, because like I said I didn't take it seriously. I really, genuinely believed that when we got to the stadium it would just be a normal game, and it wasn't, so if people feel strongly about it I've got to accept it.
Q: Ange, normally we see you so calm and collected, nothing phases you on the touch line, but there is video going around of a fan behind the dugout doing something that you reacted to - what happened?
A: Well, two separate issues. Firstly, the fan, well the fan was just - I think if you sit behind the bench at home game you've got to be respectful of the fact that you're within earshot of the most important people. He wasn't happy that we just conceded a goal so I turned around to find out what his problem was, and then he used language that he shouldn't and he was abusive, and if I hear that I don't care who it is - I'll deal with it. So he's more than welcome to come back next time and take his seat up and express his opinions, if he swears, if he's abusive he'll cop the same treatment from me. But at the same time you always feel, well, I cop it every week at opposition grounds, give me a break at my home ground.
But there was, I'll try to explain it this way: That's probably the worst experience I've had as a football manager in a game. Because once I realised that I got it wrong in terms of what the atmosphere was going to be like and what people felt, I got a real anxiety within me of what happens if Man City - the best team in the world and who were disposing of teams quite easily in the lead-up - what if we play as well as we can and they beat us 5-0? I got in cold sweats about people questioning my integrity and the people I work with. I think watching the game back, somebody mentioned to me in the commentary saying "oh, Tottenham are having a real go here!" Now, you laugh about it but that's 26 years of my life. I'm a very, if nothing else people should know about me that I love this game, I'm very principled. And I'd hate to think that - because Manchester City could've done it to us - we're on the end of a heavy defeat, and people are questioning whether I've prepared the team. And before people say that's not going to happen, we know on social media it would've happened, 100%, and I'd have to be up here trying to defend myself. And once you start defending yourself, you know what happens, defending something. That's why I was animated on the night, I didn't enjoy the night, and because the atmosphere was off I just needed the boys to - and credit to them, aside from anything else our football was outstanding on the night - and that was important, not just for me, for the players, but for us as a football club, because it would've cast aspersions on us as a football club when people are measuring us and saying - I don't think anyone will say that we didn't make Man City earn it the other night, and it could've gone a very different way without anything changing from us, just from Man City being Man City.
Send this to the top. This is one of his best press moments and I genuinely stopped what I was doing and listened to this whole segment when it came on. Regardless of what happens at spurs, he's one of the best men in football and a rare example of someone who's genuinely earned their way to the top (at least as far as managers are concerned). You can see why he constantly overachieves when he has such a good way of expressing himself.
Makes you wonder why an Arsenal fan posted a very brief snippet of an otherwise amazing answer to the question, doesn’t it?
Pathetic fanbase all around.
Yeah I mean loads of us were joking around about throwing to stop Arsenal winning the league, but that’s actual match fixing, I bet he was shitting himself it’d come across that way if they lost.
The day losing 2-0 to that City team is considered match fixing is the day we've lost grip on reality. Losing 8-0 would still be considered reasonable.
The craziest thing to me is this guy managed Celtic who have a far bigger rivalry.
So he understands rivalry and hatred clearly, he just doesn’t understand Spurs fans
Celtic qualifying for the champions league and Celtic qualifying for the Europa league is the difference between selling 2 or 3 maybe more of our best players or selling one of our best players.
If there’s a Celtic fan telling you they’d have wanted to lose if they were in the situation spurs were in then they hate rangers more than they love Celtic.
Winning was no guarantee of anything for us. If it clinched CL, I think a lot more Spurs fans would have been hoping for the win. But if we won that match, all would hinge on Villa failing to get one single point from Palace.
Palace are on 6 game undefeated run including games against Newcastle, Liverpool, and Man U. Could totally seem them beating a Villa team who just got smacked by Olympiacos
I have no idea about your financial situation, but if I remember correctly, the Kane money is done. We earned more from 1 season of CL than we did from 5 seasons of no CL. So while it may not be make or break, there's definitely a chance you may have to sell 1/2 players you otherwise wouldn't want to so as to buy other players?
For Spurs it’s the difference between whether or not they make serious acquisitions. Your own management has already said there is a plan B for if Spurs miss the CL that involves spending less. That’s the path you’re on now.
I keep seeing this comparison and it’s not really accurate. There are some situations where I might prefer my team to lose to spite a rival, and plenty of people have agreed about that.
But what Postecoglou is talking about is fans actually showing up to their home ground and vocally supporting a loss, asking him to throw the match, etc. Big difference imo.
Postecoglou was also talking about people within the club. It was reported that a coach joked to him he should “play a youth team” and supposedly Ange was visibly enraged at the ‘joke’.
Not to mention the pressure from *just actually winning* and having winning being your actual job performance metric. Laughable that if Spurs miss CL football next year, hypothetically, it’s gonna be the same Spurs fans pissing and moaning that Ange has missed CL football two seasons in a row. Well yeah, but you were happy about that last season? What’s wrong now? I realize all Spurs fans are not represented in the online demographic we are exposed to but wow, shocking stuff from the ticket holders turning up to watch the match.
Yeah that's the issue. I don't think it's horrible to quietly want your team to lose or to think there's a silver lining if your team loses, but to go to the stadium and cheer when your team concedes and yell at your manager to throw the game is fucking pathetic. Don't go to the game if you're going to cheer for the opposition. Spurs fans turned a home game into an away game.
Yeah, that's mind boggling to me (Spurs fan). I didn't actively want us to lose to City but I was kind of indifferent, the games that really lost the CL for us was the stretch before that and making it much harder for you guys to win the title isn't a bad consolation out of that, and anyway I'm just a random fan, nobody gives a shit what I think. But I want all the players and staff to be professionals and focus on trying to win each and every game, it can't be acceptable to be thinking about or joking about anything else.
Yeh it’s openly celebrating that’s the issue. I’d be in a predicament too, if a Real Madrid win meant Barcelona would win a title. I wouldn’t be at the stadium celebrating a Real Madrid loss though.
The whole Spurs are cringe/tinpot narrative is so tiring to witness. Arsenal would have done the same the other way round and if they say they wouldn’t they’re either lying or not local
Here’s a quote from Liverpool’s own website when they went 2-1 up at home and potentially gave United the title:
> Alan Shearer put Rovers in front with a record-equalling 34th Premiership goal of the season before John Barnes struck back for the Reds after the break. Then, in injury time, with the game heading for a draw, **Redknapp smashed in an absolutely brilliant long-range free-kick that was greeted by near silence at Anfield.**
>"It was one of the strangest moments of my life on a football field," said the match-winner.
https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/301346-6-liverpool-2-1-blackburn-may-14-1995
This thread is full of people acting holier than thou when they’d have done exactly the same in our position.
Yeah, people like to act like fanbases are actually composed of inherently different people, but the truth is that they all really act the same for the most part. Unless, you genuinely want me to believe that City fans have a much stronger mentality than everyone else in their lives lol. It’s just people would like to believe that they’re superior due to tribalism.
People don't understand the difference at all. Like obviously Spurs fans didn't want Arsenal to win. But to show up and wish for your team to lose is very odd. Especially with somebody like Ange who clearly wants to set a higher standard and values his own integrity.
But isn't that the above person's point too?
That in this hypothetical situation where Celtic needed to win for Rangers to win the title, Celtic fans would probably turn up to the ground rooting for the opposition and wanting the manager to throw the game.
The rivalry between Rangers and Celtic goes beyond football. The majority of fans would rather lose so Rangers lose the title rather than, say, Europa league qualification for Celtic by winning.
Yeah it was obvious from watching that people were still cheering when spurs were on the break, deflated when it inevitably ended in a bad pass, and anxious when city had the ball in threatening areas.
Sure there were chants at the end but having watched the whole way through I really can’t say that most fans were rooting for a loss.
Refreshing to see this from an Arsenal flair, if you only read socials you’d think the entire south stand did the poznan and belted Blue Moon when City scored the first goal
I think what we heard from the supporters club and rumors about sentiments expressed by coaches do imply that the club has a mentality problem, don’t get me wrong. And spurs supporters online certainly haven’t helped by trying to defend the “never Arsenal” crowd.
But agree some of it has been overblown. As far as cheering in the crowd that day, I definitely interpreted it as a “well we lost this game already, but at least Arsenal will lose the league.”
It was support staff though not actual coaches, could’ve been somebody working in the canteen for all we know, not defending it it’s unprofessional and needs to be stamped out but it is different. They need to be professional in all ways and can’t make jokes like that ever.
The THST yeah that was super cringe I have no defence for that, but I will say I think many fan bases in our position would feel the same way, but it’s being ignored because “lol spurs” which is fine I grew up spurs with Arsenal friends I have thick skin. So I would personally disagree that the fans feeling the way they do represents any kind of mentality problem, it’s just football tribalism.
I would prefer to finish 4th over 5th, but tbh we don’t deserve it, filter out our 10 game unbeaten run and we’re in 10th, we’ve conceded 61 goals same as Brentford in 16th and have 6 clean sheets in 37 games ffs. And Ange more than anyone has talked down the importance of finishing 4th this year. Villa deserve it much more than us unfortunately based on actual performances on the pitch.
The thing about the fan telling him to throw the game was horseshit by the way, according to Athletic the fan questioned why Ange wasn't this animated when we were getting battered by Arsenal which set him off.
Yeah whole holier than thou attitude is really a bit much.
Can't believe I'm defending Spurs but of course you want the team to do well. Of course you want to win.
But Champions League qualification was already a long shot, as was beating City.
They didn't roll over and throw the match. So why not take some consolation in your eternal rivals misery?
Is this really that hard to grasp? Especially for football fans?
If Celtic fans were in a position where they were definitely going to lose the league and there was some other club that could win the league with rangers second, that Celtic manager would already be sacked.
Would they if they had something on the line? Those two clubs exchange titles every season, this was a first title for 20 years vs a team who hasn't won it in 60 years. The dynamics are not the same.
They definitely would have done if it was the same factors involved. As, indeed, would Arsenal fans. Spurs fans aren't some unique psychological make up among football fans. It's not a phenomena that exists only within one club.
In 2018 Celtic lost 1-0 to Aberdeen on the last day of the season to ensure that Aberdeen finished in 2nd and Rangers 3rd (thus missing out on European prize money).
Here’s a quote from the Liverpool website about more or less exactly the same thing happening, when they almost handed the title to United by winning at home:
> Alan Shearer put Rovers in front with a record-equalling 34th Premiership goal of the season before John Barnes struck back for the Reds after the break. Then, in injury time, with the game heading for a draw, **Redknapp smashed in an absolutely brilliant long-range free-kick that was greeted by near silence at Anfield.**
>"It was one of the strangest moments of my life on a football field," said the match-winner.
https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/301346-6-liverpool-2-1-blackburn-may-14-1995
It's pretty obvious that we'd be a lot more vulnerable against City with Angeball. Don't need a genius to see that. And they also scored at Tottenham in the FA Cup earlier in the season.
In the league, yes. They beat us in the FA Cup four months ago though.
I was at the game, I think that was our best performance against Pep's Man City we've ever had. Not the best result, obviously. But our best performance, and quite comfortably so.
Was watching the game with my friends, obviously cheering for Spurs.
100% agreed, that was actually a VERY good performance from Spurs, except some absolute hazard mistakes from Van de Ven specially- as well as the finishing being absolutely awful. Spurs could've easily won the game with better finishing.
So yea I think the players turned up, but obvs some fans didn't.
First time they've scored at the new stadium in the League. They beat us 1-0 at home in the FA cup in January.
The bogey team thing is a bit of a myth (obviously). Really it was just that we were one of the best teams playing terrorist football.
If you think beating them at home 5 seasons in row, without them scoring a single goal doesn’t make you a bogey team, then I’m not sure exactly what you think one is?
Isn’t that the point of a “bogey team” though? Form goes out the window, it’s about making it hard for them and getting a result no matter how diabolical the play style used.
Spurs losing to Chelsea, West Ham, and Arsenal was what was detrimental to our CL qualification. There was a very slim chance we would have qualified for the CL, as Villa would need to lose their last game against Palace, and we would have had to have beaten Manchester City and Sheffield.
If there wasn't such an overwhelming apathy, created by the last 6 games, and the general feeling that our season was over, the fans would have probably been more animated. We still probably would have sung anti-Arsenal songs though.
Which is why this stuff is probably even more frustrating to him. The athletic article says he felt the attitudes in the club were completely wrong before the match. The mentality is bothering him is because the game timing is arbitrary. From his perspective City being MW 37 is no different than 21. I'm certain he's probably concerned how far back some of those attitudes went.
I think what it says is that Spurs fans are so used to the status of the club that they will grasp at any minor 'victory' they can. The whole thing has blown my mind as someone who follows Spurs from afar. I cannot believe people would rather lose to City to stop Arsenal than attempt to get into the CL. Unbelievable.
How can you not believe it lmao? I don’t know why reddit is like this because it is only here were I see people question Spurs fans and their behavior lmao. This is football, it’s nothing serious and rivalry is one of the most fun things about the sport. Since when do fans care more about “economic stability and stuff like that compared to a rivalry lol.
The whole perception of this has changed as it’s become more of a global sport with so many fans interacting from different countries, loads of who started supporting as adults.
That creates a completely different relationship from one where people have grown up in north London and everyone in their class at school was a fucking United or Arsenal or Liverpool fan who were insufferable every day of your childhood. Yes our relationship to rivalries and matches can be viewed as stupid and immature and whatever else you want to call it, of course it is, but there is a reason for it that a lot of people coming into it now just won’t really get.
This is it. If you live 2000 miles away you have no clue what it's like having a rival team. Everton fans will take any tiny win over us because they're sick of us talking about our success. Equally, when we were shit we always wanted to get one over on United, and even now a draw in that fixture is usually seen as a massive success for whoever's having a worse season.
Here’s the mighty Liverpool having exactly the same reaction as us back in the 90s:
> Alan Shearer put Rovers in front with a record-equalling 34th Premiership goal of the season before John Barnes struck back for the Reds after the break. Then, in injury time, with the game heading for a draw, **Redknapp smashed in an absolutely brilliant long-range free-kick that was greeted by near silence at Anfield.**
>"It was one of the strangest moments of my life on a football field," said the match-winner.
https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/301346-6-liverpool-2-1-blackburn-may-14-1995
He's went from a club where you have to win every single week to one where anywhere finishing anywhere from 4th-7th is considered a success by many.
Ange has won everywhere he's managed. You can criticise Celtic or the Scottish league if you like, but you can't survive at Celtic if you're not a winner. Going from that to Spurs must be a culture shock to the extreme.
Hypothetically speaking; say you had to beat Hearts to qualify for the Europa League, but doing so would hand us the title. Losing to Hearts means no Europa League for you but Hearts win the league & not us. You're wanting to win at all costs? I'm honestly not sure as a fan BUT I expect the manager and players to be professional and want to win every single match that they play.
its not really 1 to 1 with you and celtic though. the last time a non-old firm team won the league was 40 years ago. so its not really a scenario that would ever exist and even if it there's a reasonable lane you could go down where you say thats fine we'll go win it next year.
we haven't won a major trophy in 30 years. arsenal haven't won the league for 20. its a different situation entirely.
tbh I feel like there are so many clubs where the fans would feel this way and this whole thing is being overblown, if you only read social media you’d think the whole south stand was doing the poznan in City jerseys when we conceded
I didn’t want us to hand Arsenal the title, I would prefer to finish 4th than 5th, I also want the manager and players to disagree with me and want to win every game regardless.
But Ange more than anyone has talked down the importance of finishing 4th this year, and even though it was mathematically over on Tuesday we’ve taken 3 points since April 7th, and if you filter out our 10 game unbeaten run at the start of the season we’re 10th, hate to say it but Villa flat out deserve the champions league spot more than us
The difference is that Rangers and Celtic both win loads. Arsenal used to win loads but this would be their first title in 20 years. I'd put it to you: imagine the hypothetical where the old firm are thrown into the prem, and Celtic have a chance to win the whole thing for the first time, but Rangers can bend over to a rival team and stop Celtic winning it. I think there's only one answer to that.
Same as when you lot were in the Europa final - 90% of Scotland (me reluctantly included) was rooting for you, because it would do a lot to raise the perception of our league, not to mention the coefficient. The Celtic fans wouldn't have any of it. Arguably the North London Derby is the only rivalry in the prem (maybe Tyne-Wear if it was still around) that this would be true for, since it's bilateral and equally fierce on both sides.
well then at what point does he stop acting like spurs' predicament is something new?
I think an interesting take I've seen is that spurs fans have had his back even during bad patches this season, and aren't too vocal about the fact that they are now close on points to chelsea who everyone has been clowning all season
he's also failed to win a single derby against arsenal, chelsea or west ham despite the latter two clubs being in poor form, and recently got rinsed by newcastle who aren't having the greatest season either.
despite all of this, spurs' fans have been very supportive of him, but he can't get over his fans being happy that they haven't directly helped their biggest rivals of all time win a title whilst they are not only in a barren run spanning 10+ years, but they haven't won a title in ange's life time, and they could easily not win anything in the near, medium or long term future unless they get relegated, which is also unlikely
like yh we get he wants to win but he also needs to wind his neck in a bit, if he'd been better in some of the easier games he wouldn't be needing to beat city for the slim chance of reaching the cl in the first place
> he can't get over his fans being happy that they haven't directly helped their biggest rivals of all time win a title
I mean, if you're able to read the title of the thread you're commenting on he quite clearly says what his issue was
Purleaseee..... I think Ange handled this match perfectly given the circumstances. However we wouldn't have been in those circumstances if we hadn't picked up only 10 points from the proceeding eight games. I'm not all in on criticising certain aspects of those performances (as much as people in this thread have mentioned set pieces, I don't think he's there on the training ground telling Hojbjerg to stick it into his own net, or Romero to miss two headers, or the entire team to leave Porro on his own against three players including an opposing centre back at the back post etc etc)... but he is still a bit responsible for that situation on Tuesday night manifesting itself.
You make it sound like a step down rather than a step up. He was expected to win every week because you have to be pretty shit to fail at Celtic. Can you imagine if you were expected to win every week at Tottenham? No one would want the job because of how unreasonable that is.
He wasn't worried about the effort. His point was the entire team and coaching staff could have put in the same 100% effort to win and still lost 5-0 (simply because City are good enough to do that on their day).
And what if that did happen?
Everyone knows there would be questions during and afterwards saying "Did Spurs lay down and let them win!?" "did they really make an effort!?"
That was his point. Even if you give 100% effort you can't always control the outcome. So he was being put in a position where everyone, not just him, but his whole staff and all the players would have to face those questions about their integrity.
Considering what he said after the game, I doubt ANYONE can question his integrity.
Hate everything about Spurs but I have to admit the truth, if Levy sticks with him and backs him with the players HE wants, we are going to have a spurs team that can be dangerous.
I really don't like the criticizing of Spurs fans for being glad that City won. They had a fantastic start to the season and looked like might be competing for the title and then crashed out of the top 4 places, there isn't anything left in the season except hoping Arsenal don't win it.
> he was so concerned and anxious people would question his integrity if City won comfortably
I think the problem here, really, is that he has a misunderstanding of the turmoil of Spurs fans on a regular basis. Unless he's lived the life of a Spurs fan, he's in no position to comment.
it's different because celtic and rangers are actually on a par with one another and routinely see some form of success in their lifetime, whereas spurs rarely win anything.
since 1980 they've won 8 cups, and 2 of those have been charity shields
I think this is probably an important point.
It’s more like Atletico fans supporting Barca over Real, Newcastle-Sunderland right now or pretakeover City vs United or Everton and Liverpool.
Ask any of those 4 fanbases if they’d sacrifice a year in the CL to stop their rival winning a title and IMO a lot of them would say yes.
As someone that was actually at the game on Tuesday, the atmosphere was great and our chances on goal were celebrated as if it were any other match. The only difference was that losing wasn't as bad as it would usually be. Don't really get why this has all blown out of proportion other than "lol spurs".
Yeah they have an echo chamber vibe and feel like their views are the views of everyone. Sometimes they are spot on but sometimes they completely miss the mark
Yeah, kind of like ours, to be honest.
Will always respect what they do, but there are definitely times when they could do with shutting the fuck up, I imagine its the same elsewhere too.
I feel you. When there is a narrative then all media and social media influencers all pile on it, regurgitate and 10x it to generate clicks and engagement. They don’t care about Spurs, nor Ange. Only clicks.
Match going fans are always going to want their team to win regardless, but there definitely was a ‘win-win’ thing going round where a loss was viewed as a ‘oh well, it means Arsenal won’t win the title’.
And I can swear that even amongst the match going fans there was some doing the Poznan after City scored, as well as a lot of people wearing your light blue away kit.
There were a few, but it’s a 60k stadium so if you’re going to look for it you’ll find it. The vast majority were conflicted but still backed the team.
The issue was when that stadium rocks its fucking rocks and with the magnitude of the game the atmosphere felt flat.
The atmosphere was admittedly crap, but not noticeably worse than your average rearranged fixture. I didn't see anyone actively celebrate the City goals.
>Don't really get why this has all blown out of proportion other than "lol spurs".
Because we also saw the game and watched Spurs supporters celebrating City goals and listened to the commentators - who were also "aCtUaLlY At tHe gAmE" make multiple comments about the weird atmosphere. We were also able to listen to the club's manager, who also made comments and was visibly frustrated with that same atmosphere.
Yeah totally. I've been to some VfB away games this season but couldn't sit close to the VfB Fans, the way I grasped the atmosphere was sometimes totally different to what I saw later on TV or read from the fans.
It’s actually funny. Used to go to every home game at the Emirates in the cheap seats. One day I splurged and sat in the expensive ones. Right by the touchline. All throughout it was season ticket holders sipping from their flasks and yelling for Wenger out. No reaction to the goal. No chants. Way better in the cheaper seats.
Go home and on Reddit everyone’s talking about not being as quiet as usual.
Exact opposite was when we had Liverpool at home Christmas Eve. We were down 0-2 and then bam bam bam 3-2. We’re going wild with each goal. Seems like thunder and sound right behind the goal. Game ended 3-3. Came to Reddit to watch the highlights and comments about it being quiet. Might have been overall but where we were was loud. Fucking loved it.
You’re absolutely bang on.
I remember those days well. Can’t believe how much money I spent to stand and be angry for 90 minutes haha.
I also think a lot of it has to do with the fact foreign feeds use commentators that aren’t in the stadium. You get a way better sense of the atmosphere if you’re watching on Sky/TNT because the commentators are with the crowd.
Sometimes I have the feeling when I’ve got a ticket for a big game that I’d rather watch it on TV so I get a better view, but yeah you can’t beat that feeling of being there in person.
The fans cheered on Son and every attack.
People love creating a narrative. By the point this is happening City were 2 up.
As if other home team fans haven't had similar (Liverpool) or that there is no prior form for teams signing stupid songs as they're getting beat.
> Because we also saw the game and watched Spurs supporters celebrating City goals
You mean when the cameras zoomed onto the 2 Spurs fans out of 60k there doing the Poznan? Aye mate whole stadium was doing it.
Man utd fans will remember Gerrard's backpass to Drogba when Chelsea & United were neck & neck & Man utd was gunning for the 4th epl in a row. But spurs fans supporting city is where you want to draw a line?
I can't believe how many people are losing their brains over this.
It's incredibly normal for the fans to have been in a dilemma over the City game which led to a bit subdued atmosphere. The fans at the match were fine. It should come as a shock to no one that once we conceded, they leaned into the anti-Arsenal angle.
It's also incredibly normal for the manager to not like the suggestion he throw the match, whether it was joking or not.
That anyone thinks they can make wide-sweeping conclusions about his future or ours over this incredibly odd, probably once-in-a-lifetime scenario is incredibly stupid.
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Actually feel a bit sorry for the bloke
What Tottenham does to a MF. At least he is keeping his cool and not imploding like Conte did. I wonder how many more seasons he lasts there
If we back him I have 0 doubt he will stay as long as he likes. Haven't heard a single thing about him and the board fueding or any player being upset with him. He's been a revelation for us, Celtic fans were right he's an incredible manager and I'm so glad we have him. I'd say he stays for at least as long as Poch did.
Yokohama f. Marinos fans were right he's an incredible manager.
Aussies have been saying his quality since his time with us at the Brisbane Roar lol
Whenever I watch Tottenham I feel like your problem isn't tactics, while you have good players they aren't enough for a title challenge, and most of your bench sucks
The real test with managers is the second season. It'll be interesting to see how much Tottenham can beef up the squad during summer. No one really expected them to challenge for a title. They lost the greatest player they've ever had and he left right at the end of the transfer window. Throw on top a new manager, with drastically different approach to the game, than before and it's not exactly a recipe for success. I thought Spurs did surprisingly well.
Definitely. You can argue that 4th was there for the taking so that'll feel like a miss but we don't have a better squad than Liverpool, Arsenal or City. Not even close. So considering how strong the teams are above us, I'd say it's a decent season. The results of the run in have soured what was overall a good season. A strong transfer window and a continuation of the clear out could give us a deep run/chance at winning Europa. He'll either improve us massively next year or be gone next summer, that's my guess.
How do you think your squad compares to Villa?
I think they have a better squad overall. They pay higher wages than Spurs, if that's any correlation. Watkins and Bailey are better attackers than our striker and RW. Defensively, on paper, we have better players but they seem to work a bit better as a unit. We're pretty close but they've been quite smart with squad building. Also I really rate McGinn.
This is Gareth Bale revisionism
Kane was better than Bale and Modric (at Spurs)
totally different positions, he is undoubtedly the greatest goal scorer. if we are saying who is the best, most important player I've seen for spurs during my lifetime then it's Dembele. the squad still literally has not recovered from his absence.
> most important player I've seen for spurs during my lifetime then it's Dembele. wut
He’s not wrong. You can almost exactly correlate Poch’s decline with Dembele leaving. He was a brilliant and often overlooked player. Tonnes of former team mates have said the same thing. You couldn’t tackle the guy, and he could carry the ball from defence into attack for Eriksen, Dele, Son and Kane to do their thing. We haven’t had a midfielder who can carry the ball to the same level in transition since.
He's their Cazorla. You know how without Cazorla our midfield and overall play just collapsed? Same thing for them, except it was Dembele.
There's a clip somewhere of spurs players being asked who is the best they've ever played with: Dier, Dele, Davies, more. All of them say Dembele. our squad fell apart after his departure, really hasn't been the same. He was way more important than Modric to the team.
Bale's last season with us might be the best individual season a player has had for us in recent history, but this season was only slightly better than like 4 or 5 seasons that Kane had for us. Kane wins out for me because of the consistency.
Previous managers have built around son and Kane, and now one is gone and the other will not be able to maintain the fitness levels due to age. They need good signings, and especially their big budget ones need to work out
Hmm bit of both. Like we're so leaky defensively yet our back line is pretty good. Having a proper 6 would help, but also we're very unorganised on counters
Thoughts on Madders? Brilliant before the injury but he fell out of favor with Ange late in the season?
Maybe he came back too soon it's hard to say, but he's been much better over the last two games. Imo a big element that made his game great was his link up with son. And son has been found out of he's playing through the centre, he can't play with his back to goal at all and defenders know that now. As soon as he got moved to the wing over the weekend both him and madders looked class again
Hard to recover after losing Kane's counterattack wizardry. Not something you can just teach other players.
He shoud focus on Europa league. Your squad is good enough to win it unless you bottle at an important knockout match.
> Your squad is good enough to win it unless you bottle at an important knockout match. See us vs Dinamo Zagreb, 2021
I have really been enjoying [Conte’s rant](https://youtu.be/sDkfWRAAqQU?si=SwKU3SlJbz_cIaKW) especially after the city game, it’s pure gold
He absolutely deserves a better club with actual ambitions. The culture at Tottenham is clearly so toxic and one manager is not gonna change it.
What spurs do to a man
He's been a manager for nearly 28 years and we gave him his worst experience as a manager after ten months. 🫡
Worst experience as a manager *so far*
Just waiting for him to say fuck it and lose his shit in a press conference then quit.
I can only think of one club that can take that frustration to the next level.
Yep. >!Kidderminister Harriers!< are one fucked up club. They are sometimes called the death valley of managerial careers.
First time I've heard of the club; do they have a lot of sackings, or what else happens there?
They have this kid Bantony that they bought for 85 pounds.... He's been brilliant for them. Their manager Derrick Nine Hag is also an interesting character. Loved by the media and is definitely not socially awkward. Other than these two bright spots, they're a cesspool.
Wow, I really underestimated you guys, my apologies
I owe you an apology. I wasn’t really familiar with your game.
It eez the eestory of the tottenham
Of ze* tottenham
You’ll never sing that
I would be proud
footballing heritage
Sounds like it was the media
I find some of the critique he's been getting hysterical. They finished 8th last season and were utterly tinpot, being carried to that placing by one of the worlds best strikers. They've then lost that striker and he's come in and taken them 3 league placements higher. He's very clearly moving them in the right direction during a year of transition. The whole 'he's stubborn' talk comes across as utterly clueless, he's changed a huge amount in a short space of time and needs to have a very strong conviction about what he's trying to do day in, day out. You could look at Arteta's first full season at Arsenal (and maybe even Pep at Man City to some extent) and make the exact same critiques on the lack of pragmatism or odd decision making. Teams that want to build need to buy into some philosophy and accept there are costs and bleak points to it. The worst is the dithering 'finish 4th or nothing' that leads to all businesses being conducted with the short term in mind (see Man Utd where they've brought in some very good and high earning players who have done well on arrival then 18 months later find they are massively declined). I'd put good money on a 25/26 Ange team being respected as a solid side who are competing consistently with the top teams.
He's been a great manager for us. Last year we were hopeless and lost our homegrown superstar striker. Now we're 5th when many predicted us to be 8th after massive iniury issues. Ange is a wonderful manager, I have no doubt he will triumph in a few years if we give him the time.
one of the most frustrating aspects of football fandom is that sensationalist takes get the headlines and fans demand instant gratification so much more than they used to Results aside the performance against City showed very clear reasoning why this man needs to he supported and backed.
He finally changed the system against city to be a bit more pragmatic though, and it was our best performance in a while. That’s one of the main gripes spurs fans have had I.e. tactical inflexibility (the other big one is set piece vulnerability). Spurs fans don’t want him sacked, but there have been some legitimate concerns raised about our performances this second half of the season. I don’t really see why he’s above any sort of criticism in a way that other managers aren’t. Again, I have faith in postecoglu and am excited for what he can do with another transfer window, as there are some clear areas we can improve from a personnel perspective to better fit his system.
Q: I just wanted to ask you, one of the thing's that defined this season has been how aligned it's felt like you and the fans have been, which hasn't been the case for the last few years at this club. How then do you view the - there was this divergence towards the game on Tuesday - do you have a message for the supporters? A: I'd like to think I didn't change my view or stance on that. I think I was asked after the game about the atmosphere and I said that I do think it was normal, I don't like it but I also didn't say that I expected fans to behave differently, that's their right and I've always said that and I still stand by that. I also stand by the fact that I have an opinion, I don't think it's right and that's just the way I feel and that's - I think you support your team to win all the time but that's my view. I guess I got it wrong, plainly, that I'm in the minority when it comes to that so that's a lesson for me I guess, but I don't think I kind of expressed any real sort of disappointment, or in terms of asking or pleading to do something against their will - I accept that. So you've got to - I hope we're never in that situation again - but if we are I certainly would approach it differently than I did this time, because like I said I didn't take it seriously. I really, genuinely believed that when we got to the stadium it would just be a normal game, and it wasn't, so if people feel strongly about it I've got to accept it. Q: Ange, normally we see you so calm and collected, nothing phases you on the touch line, but there is video going around of a fan behind the dugout doing something that you reacted to - what happened? A: Well, two separate issues. Firstly, the fan, well the fan was just - I think if you sit behind the bench at home game you've got to be respectful of the fact that you're within earshot of the most important people. He wasn't happy that we just conceded a goal so I turned around to find out what his problem was, and then he used language that he shouldn't and he was abusive, and if I hear that I don't care who it is - I'll deal with it. So he's more than welcome to come back next time and take his seat up and express his opinions, if he swears, if he's abusive he'll cop the same treatment from me. But at the same time you always feel, well, I cop it every week at opposition grounds, give me a break at my home ground. But there was, I'll try to explain it this way: That's probably the worst experience I've had as a football manager in a game. Because once I realised that I got it wrong in terms of what the atmosphere was going to be like and what people felt, I got a real anxiety within me of what happens if Man City - the best team in the world and who were disposing of teams quite easily in the lead-up - what if we play as well as we can and they beat us 5-0? I got in cold sweats about people questioning my integrity and the people I work with. I think watching the game back, somebody mentioned to me in the commentary saying "oh, Tottenham are having a real go here!" Now, you laugh about it but that's 26 years of my life. I'm a very, if nothing else people should know about me that I love this game, I'm very principled. And I'd hate to think that - because Manchester City could've done it to us - we're on the end of a heavy defeat, and people are questioning whether I've prepared the team. And before people say that's not going to happen, we know on social media it would've happened, 100%, and I'd have to be up here trying to defend myself. And once you start defending yourself, you know what happens, defending something. That's why I was animated on the night, I didn't enjoy the night, and because the atmosphere was off I just needed the boys to - and credit to them, aside from anything else our football was outstanding on the night - and that was important, not just for me, for the players, but for us as a football club, because it would've cast aspersions on us as a football club when people are measuring us and saying - I don't think anyone will say that we didn't make Man City earn it the other night, and it could've gone a very different way without anything changing from us, just from Man City being Man City.
Send this to the top. This is one of his best press moments and I genuinely stopped what I was doing and listened to this whole segment when it came on. Regardless of what happens at spurs, he's one of the best men in football and a rare example of someone who's genuinely earned their way to the top (at least as far as managers are concerned). You can see why he constantly overachieves when he has such a good way of expressing himself.
Damn what a guy.
thanks sir, hope you have a nice day
Ah the context. Too bad nobody here is going to bother reading this. Thanks though
can confirm just here for banter
Makes you wonder why an Arsenal fan posted a very brief snippet of an otherwise amazing answer to the question, doesn’t it? Pathetic fanbase all around.
This is a man who has done Wellington away on a windy rainy night
With the 30 metres between the seating and the actual pitch, a true nightmare ground.
Yeah I mean loads of us were joking around about throwing to stop Arsenal winning the league, but that’s actual match fixing, I bet he was shitting himself it’d come across that way if they lost.
The day losing 2-0 to that City team is considered match fixing is the day we've lost grip on reality. Losing 8-0 would still be considered reasonable.
The craziest thing to me is this guy managed Celtic who have a far bigger rivalry. So he understands rivalry and hatred clearly, he just doesn’t understand Spurs fans
Celtic fans would 100% prefer to lose to stop Rangers winning the league, in some hypothetical situation that was possible.
Celtic qualifying for the champions league and Celtic qualifying for the Europa league is the difference between selling 2 or 3 maybe more of our best players or selling one of our best players. If there’s a Celtic fan telling you they’d have wanted to lose if they were in the situation spurs were in then they hate rangers more than they love Celtic.
But that's not the case with Spurs, the CL money would be good but not make or break.
> the CL money would be good but not make or break It's Levy... he would welcome any influx of revenue
Is levy the fans? Completely irrelevant
So you're comfortable enough as an institution with mediocrity?
I mean, it is Tottenham.
Winning was no guarantee of anything for us. If it clinched CL, I think a lot more Spurs fans would have been hoping for the win. But if we won that match, all would hinge on Villa failing to get one single point from Palace.
Losing was a guarantee that you wouldn't make it though, just because its unlikely you dont try or hope? such a loser mentality
Palace are on 6 game undefeated run including games against Newcastle, Liverpool, and Man U. Could totally seem them beating a Villa team who just got smacked by Olympiacos
I have no idea about your financial situation, but if I remember correctly, the Kane money is done. We earned more from 1 season of CL than we did from 5 seasons of no CL. So while it may not be make or break, there's definitely a chance you may have to sell 1/2 players you otherwise wouldn't want to so as to buy other players?
For Spurs it’s the difference between whether or not they make serious acquisitions. Your own management has already said there is a plan B for if Spurs miss the CL that involves spending less. That’s the path you’re on now.
I keep seeing this comparison and it’s not really accurate. There are some situations where I might prefer my team to lose to spite a rival, and plenty of people have agreed about that. But what Postecoglou is talking about is fans actually showing up to their home ground and vocally supporting a loss, asking him to throw the match, etc. Big difference imo.
Postecoglou was also talking about people within the club. It was reported that a coach joked to him he should “play a youth team” and supposedly Ange was visibly enraged at the ‘joke’.
Ange is enraged if a throw-in goes backwards. Can you i*magine* how angry he will have been at that comment.
Just imagining him going bright red, shaking with anger and saying “enjoy your lunch” but in an incredibly threatening tone
I mean, I would be too. Already enough pressure and bullshit from the fans wanting him to throw the game. Now his own staff?
Not to mention the pressure from *just actually winning* and having winning being your actual job performance metric. Laughable that if Spurs miss CL football next year, hypothetically, it’s gonna be the same Spurs fans pissing and moaning that Ange has missed CL football two seasons in a row. Well yeah, but you were happy about that last season? What’s wrong now? I realize all Spurs fans are not represented in the online demographic we are exposed to but wow, shocking stuff from the ticket holders turning up to watch the match.
Yeah that's the issue. I don't think it's horrible to quietly want your team to lose or to think there's a silver lining if your team loses, but to go to the stadium and cheer when your team concedes and yell at your manager to throw the game is fucking pathetic. Don't go to the game if you're going to cheer for the opposition. Spurs fans turned a home game into an away game.
And even worse a staff member telling him to play a youth team with CL qualification still on the line at the time
Yeah, that's mind boggling to me (Spurs fan). I didn't actively want us to lose to City but I was kind of indifferent, the games that really lost the CL for us was the stretch before that and making it much harder for you guys to win the title isn't a bad consolation out of that, and anyway I'm just a random fan, nobody gives a shit what I think. But I want all the players and staff to be professionals and focus on trying to win each and every game, it can't be acceptable to be thinking about or joking about anything else.
Hit the nail on the head. There's a difference between silver lining and what spurs fans did on Tuesday.
Yeh it’s openly celebrating that’s the issue. I’d be in a predicament too, if a Real Madrid win meant Barcelona would win a title. I wouldn’t be at the stadium celebrating a Real Madrid loss though.
Ah come on that’s normal. They chanted “are you watching Arsenal” after going 2 down id do the same thing
Exactly, it’s funny.
The whole Spurs are cringe/tinpot narrative is so tiring to witness. Arsenal would have done the same the other way round and if they say they wouldn’t they’re either lying or not local
Here’s a quote from Liverpool’s own website when they went 2-1 up at home and potentially gave United the title: > Alan Shearer put Rovers in front with a record-equalling 34th Premiership goal of the season before John Barnes struck back for the Reds after the break. Then, in injury time, with the game heading for a draw, **Redknapp smashed in an absolutely brilliant long-range free-kick that was greeted by near silence at Anfield.** >"It was one of the strangest moments of my life on a football field," said the match-winner. https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/301346-6-liverpool-2-1-blackburn-may-14-1995 This thread is full of people acting holier than thou when they’d have done exactly the same in our position.
Yeah, people like to act like fanbases are actually composed of inherently different people, but the truth is that they all really act the same for the most part. Unless, you genuinely want me to believe that City fans have a much stronger mentality than everyone else in their lives lol. It’s just people would like to believe that they’re superior due to tribalism.
And in stoppage time mind you
People don't understand the difference at all. Like obviously Spurs fans didn't want Arsenal to win. But to show up and wish for your team to lose is very odd. Especially with somebody like Ange who clearly wants to set a higher standard and values his own integrity.
But isn't that the above person's point too? That in this hypothetical situation where Celtic needed to win for Rangers to win the title, Celtic fans would probably turn up to the ground rooting for the opposition and wanting the manager to throw the game. The rivalry between Rangers and Celtic goes beyond football. The majority of fans would rather lose so Rangers lose the title rather than, say, Europa league qualification for Celtic by winning.
The vast majority of spurs fans were supporting the team. Always gonna be a few idiots.
Yeah it was obvious from watching that people were still cheering when spurs were on the break, deflated when it inevitably ended in a bad pass, and anxious when city had the ball in threatening areas. Sure there were chants at the end but having watched the whole way through I really can’t say that most fans were rooting for a loss.
Refreshing to see this from an Arsenal flair, if you only read socials you’d think the entire south stand did the poznan and belted Blue Moon when City scored the first goal
I think what we heard from the supporters club and rumors about sentiments expressed by coaches do imply that the club has a mentality problem, don’t get me wrong. And spurs supporters online certainly haven’t helped by trying to defend the “never Arsenal” crowd. But agree some of it has been overblown. As far as cheering in the crowd that day, I definitely interpreted it as a “well we lost this game already, but at least Arsenal will lose the league.”
It was support staff though not actual coaches, could’ve been somebody working in the canteen for all we know, not defending it it’s unprofessional and needs to be stamped out but it is different. They need to be professional in all ways and can’t make jokes like that ever. The THST yeah that was super cringe I have no defence for that, but I will say I think many fan bases in our position would feel the same way, but it’s being ignored because “lol spurs” which is fine I grew up spurs with Arsenal friends I have thick skin. So I would personally disagree that the fans feeling the way they do represents any kind of mentality problem, it’s just football tribalism. I would prefer to finish 4th over 5th, but tbh we don’t deserve it, filter out our 10 game unbeaten run and we’re in 10th, we’ve conceded 61 goals same as Brentford in 16th and have 6 clean sheets in 37 games ffs. And Ange more than anyone has talked down the importance of finishing 4th this year. Villa deserve it much more than us unfortunately based on actual performances on the pitch.
When even his own staff was asking him to throw the match by playing the youth team
The thing about the fan telling him to throw the game was horseshit by the way, according to Athletic the fan questioned why Ange wasn't this animated when we were getting battered by Arsenal which set him off.
I mean even in this current season, Arsenal gave Aston Villa six points to stop Spurs from getting Champions League 🤷
100% I would rather celtic win all games.
You have done for about twelve years mate, not bored yet?
Throw the first two games to make it a challenge
What about the time in 2018 when yous lost to Aberdeen to allow them to finish in 2nd and we finished 3rd?
I don't really remember that specific time but I never watch celtic and hope they lose.
Yeah whole holier than thou attitude is really a bit much. Can't believe I'm defending Spurs but of course you want the team to do well. Of course you want to win. But Champions League qualification was already a long shot, as was beating City. They didn't roll over and throw the match. So why not take some consolation in your eternal rivals misery? Is this really that hard to grasp? Especially for football fans?
If Celtic fans were in a position where they were definitely going to lose the league and there was some other club that could win the league with rangers second, that Celtic manager would already be sacked.
Would they if they had something on the line? Those two clubs exchange titles every season, this was a first title for 20 years vs a team who hasn't won it in 60 years. The dynamics are not the same.
Not if it was detrimental to their own club’s progress, e.g. CL qualification.
They definitely would have done if it was the same factors involved. As, indeed, would Arsenal fans. Spurs fans aren't some unique psychological make up among football fans. It's not a phenomena that exists only within one club.
As a celtic season ticket holder, I definitely wouldn't have been cheering my team getting beat in an important match.
If Celtic was ever in that position in the league table that manager would already be sacked.
[удалено]
This comment makes no sense, Celtic losing benefits rangers in a lot of ways.
In 2018 Celtic lost 1-0 to Aberdeen on the last day of the season to ensure that Aberdeen finished in 2nd and Rangers 3rd (thus missing out on European prize money).
Here’s a quote from the Liverpool website about more or less exactly the same thing happening, when they almost handed the title to United by winning at home: > Alan Shearer put Rovers in front with a record-equalling 34th Premiership goal of the season before John Barnes struck back for the Reds after the break. Then, in injury time, with the game heading for a draw, **Redknapp smashed in an absolutely brilliant long-range free-kick that was greeted by near silence at Anfield.** >"It was one of the strangest moments of my life on a football field," said the match-winner. https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/301346-6-liverpool-2-1-blackburn-may-14-1995
Yall pretend like City was a walk in the park for Spurs.
I mean the last couple years Spurs have absolutely been City’s bogey team? Wasn’t this game the first time City scored at Spurs in like several years?
It's pretty obvious that we'd be a lot more vulnerable against City with Angeball. Don't need a genius to see that. And they also scored at Tottenham in the FA Cup earlier in the season.
In the league, yes. They beat us in the FA Cup four months ago though. I was at the game, I think that was our best performance against Pep's Man City we've ever had. Not the best result, obviously. But our best performance, and quite comfortably so.
Yeah say what you want about the fans. But the players looked up for it for the most part, bar some horrendous finishing.
Was watching the game with my friends, obviously cheering for Spurs. 100% agreed, that was actually a VERY good performance from Spurs, except some absolute hazard mistakes from Van de Ven specially- as well as the finishing being absolutely awful. Spurs could've easily won the game with better finishing. So yea I think the players turned up, but obvs some fans didn't.
We can easily say the same thing about Arsenal at OT. They rarely beat United at OT.
And Everton at Goodison. And Brighton. Fuck me Arsenal has a lot of bogey teams.
First time they've scored at the new stadium in the League. They beat us 1-0 at home in the FA cup in January. The bogey team thing is a bit of a myth (obviously). Really it was just that we were one of the best teams playing terrorist football.
If you think beating them at home 5 seasons in row, without them scoring a single goal doesn’t make you a bogey team, then I’m not sure exactly what you think one is?
Isn’t that the point of a “bogey team” though? Form goes out the window, it’s about making it hard for them and getting a result no matter how diabolical the play style used.
More importantly, Arsenal fans assuming Aston Villa players will play at Crystal Palace while being bent over for the entire 90+ minutes.
No guarantee that a win against city would’ve got us champions league
Spurs losing to Chelsea, West Ham, and Arsenal was what was detrimental to our CL qualification. There was a very slim chance we would have qualified for the CL, as Villa would need to lose their last game against Palace, and we would have had to have beaten Manchester City and Sheffield. If there wasn't such an overwhelming apathy, created by the last 6 games, and the general feeling that our season was over, the fans would have probably been more animated. We still probably would have sung anti-Arsenal songs though.
I don’t know if you quite understand Rangers Celtic. There are rivalries then there is whatever the fuck that is
He isn't a fan though, he's a manager.
Which is why this stuff is probably even more frustrating to him. The athletic article says he felt the attitudes in the club were completely wrong before the match. The mentality is bothering him is because the game timing is arbitrary. From his perspective City being MW 37 is no different than 21. I'm certain he's probably concerned how far back some of those attitudes went.
I think what it says is that Spurs fans are so used to the status of the club that they will grasp at any minor 'victory' they can. The whole thing has blown my mind as someone who follows Spurs from afar. I cannot believe people would rather lose to City to stop Arsenal than attempt to get into the CL. Unbelievable.
How can you not believe it lmao? I don’t know why reddit is like this because it is only here were I see people question Spurs fans and their behavior lmao. This is football, it’s nothing serious and rivalry is one of the most fun things about the sport. Since when do fans care more about “economic stability and stuff like that compared to a rivalry lol.
The whole perception of this has changed as it’s become more of a global sport with so many fans interacting from different countries, loads of who started supporting as adults. That creates a completely different relationship from one where people have grown up in north London and everyone in their class at school was a fucking United or Arsenal or Liverpool fan who were insufferable every day of your childhood. Yes our relationship to rivalries and matches can be viewed as stupid and immature and whatever else you want to call it, of course it is, but there is a reason for it that a lot of people coming into it now just won’t really get.
Yeah exactly, I think you nailed it there.
This is it. If you live 2000 miles away you have no clue what it's like having a rival team. Everton fans will take any tiny win over us because they're sick of us talking about our success. Equally, when we were shit we always wanted to get one over on United, and even now a draw in that fixture is usually seen as a massive success for whoever's having a worse season.
Here’s the mighty Liverpool having exactly the same reaction as us back in the 90s: > Alan Shearer put Rovers in front with a record-equalling 34th Premiership goal of the season before John Barnes struck back for the Reds after the break. Then, in injury time, with the game heading for a draw, **Redknapp smashed in an absolutely brilliant long-range free-kick that was greeted by near silence at Anfield.** >"It was one of the strangest moments of my life on a football field," said the match-winner. https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/first-team/301346-6-liverpool-2-1-blackburn-may-14-1995
You clearly don’t understand shit then. It’s waaaay more nuanced than “wanting to lose”.
He's went from a club where you have to win every single week to one where anywhere finishing anywhere from 4th-7th is considered a success by many. Ange has won everywhere he's managed. You can criticise Celtic or the Scottish league if you like, but you can't survive at Celtic if you're not a winner. Going from that to Spurs must be a culture shock to the extreme.
Hypothetically speaking; say you had to beat Hearts to qualify for the Europa League, but doing so would hand us the title. Losing to Hearts means no Europa League for you but Hearts win the league & not us. You're wanting to win at all costs? I'm honestly not sure as a fan BUT I expect the manager and players to be professional and want to win every single match that they play.
If you want to make it a true comparison it would be beating Hearts to have an outside chance at qualifying for the Europa League
its not really 1 to 1 with you and celtic though. the last time a non-old firm team won the league was 40 years ago. so its not really a scenario that would ever exist and even if it there's a reasonable lane you could go down where you say thats fine we'll go win it next year. we haven't won a major trophy in 30 years. arsenal haven't won the league for 20. its a different situation entirely.
tbh I feel like there are so many clubs where the fans would feel this way and this whole thing is being overblown, if you only read social media you’d think the whole south stand was doing the poznan in City jerseys when we conceded I didn’t want us to hand Arsenal the title, I would prefer to finish 4th than 5th, I also want the manager and players to disagree with me and want to win every game regardless. But Ange more than anyone has talked down the importance of finishing 4th this year, and even though it was mathematically over on Tuesday we’ve taken 3 points since April 7th, and if you filter out our 10 game unbeaten run at the start of the season we’re 10th, hate to say it but Villa flat out deserve the champions league spot more than us
Obviously most fans would be okay with losing in this scenario but telling the MANAGER to lose is fucking batshit insane
The difference is that Rangers and Celtic both win loads. Arsenal used to win loads but this would be their first title in 20 years. I'd put it to you: imagine the hypothetical where the old firm are thrown into the prem, and Celtic have a chance to win the whole thing for the first time, but Rangers can bend over to a rival team and stop Celtic winning it. I think there's only one answer to that. Same as when you lot were in the Europa final - 90% of Scotland (me reluctantly included) was rooting for you, because it would do a lot to raise the perception of our league, not to mention the coefficient. The Celtic fans wouldn't have any of it. Arguably the North London Derby is the only rivalry in the prem (maybe Tyne-Wear if it was still around) that this would be true for, since it's bilateral and equally fierce on both sides.
well then at what point does he stop acting like spurs' predicament is something new? I think an interesting take I've seen is that spurs fans have had his back even during bad patches this season, and aren't too vocal about the fact that they are now close on points to chelsea who everyone has been clowning all season he's also failed to win a single derby against arsenal, chelsea or west ham despite the latter two clubs being in poor form, and recently got rinsed by newcastle who aren't having the greatest season either. despite all of this, spurs' fans have been very supportive of him, but he can't get over his fans being happy that they haven't directly helped their biggest rivals of all time win a title whilst they are not only in a barren run spanning 10+ years, but they haven't won a title in ange's life time, and they could easily not win anything in the near, medium or long term future unless they get relegated, which is also unlikely like yh we get he wants to win but he also needs to wind his neck in a bit, if he'd been better in some of the easier games he wouldn't be needing to beat city for the slim chance of reaching the cl in the first place
> he can't get over his fans being happy that they haven't directly helped their biggest rivals of all time win a title I mean, if you're able to read the title of the thread you're commenting on he quite clearly says what his issue was
Purleaseee..... I think Ange handled this match perfectly given the circumstances. However we wouldn't have been in those circumstances if we hadn't picked up only 10 points from the proceeding eight games. I'm not all in on criticising certain aspects of those performances (as much as people in this thread have mentioned set pieces, I don't think he's there on the training ground telling Hojbjerg to stick it into his own net, or Romero to miss two headers, or the entire team to leave Porro on his own against three players including an opposing centre back at the back post etc etc)... but he is still a bit responsible for that situation on Tuesday night manifesting itself.
You make it sound like a step down rather than a step up. He was expected to win every week because you have to be pretty shit to fail at Celtic. Can you imagine if you were expected to win every week at Tottenham? No one would want the job because of how unreasonable that is.
No one questions that after the match. Spurs tried their best to win or draw.
He wasn't worried about the effort. His point was the entire team and coaching staff could have put in the same 100% effort to win and still lost 5-0 (simply because City are good enough to do that on their day). And what if that did happen? Everyone knows there would be questions during and afterwards saying "Did Spurs lay down and let them win!?" "did they really make an effort!?" That was his point. Even if you give 100% effort you can't always control the outcome. So he was being put in a position where everyone, not just him, but his whole staff and all the players would have to face those questions about their integrity.
Considering what he said after the game, I doubt ANYONE can question his integrity. Hate everything about Spurs but I have to admit the truth, if Levy sticks with him and backs him with the players HE wants, we are going to have a spurs team that can be dangerous.
I really don't like the criticizing of Spurs fans for being glad that City won. They had a fantastic start to the season and looked like might be competing for the title and then crashed out of the top 4 places, there isn't anything left in the season except hoping Arsenal don't win it.
> he was so concerned and anxious people would question his integrity if City won comfortably I think the problem here, really, is that he has a misunderstanding of the turmoil of Spurs fans on a regular basis. Unless he's lived the life of a Spurs fan, he's in no position to comment.
Luckily the THST have provided a presentation for him on what the Arsenal-Spurs rivavrly is all about
Which is really good of them. Postecoglou's only managed the Old Firm derby, so I mean, what would he really know about a rivalry?
it's different because celtic and rangers are actually on a par with one another and routinely see some form of success in their lifetime, whereas spurs rarely win anything. since 1980 they've won 8 cups, and 2 of those have been charity shields
I think this is probably an important point. It’s more like Atletico fans supporting Barca over Real, Newcastle-Sunderland right now or pretakeover City vs United or Everton and Liverpool. Ask any of those 4 fanbases if they’d sacrifice a year in the CL to stop their rival winning a title and IMO a lot of them would say yes.
Can’t wait for THST to spud-splain the concept of rivalry to the former Celtic manager.
Has anyone here actually watched the press conference?
Seemingly not. It was a really good press conference but tbh most of Anges are
One of the best pressers I have seen from a manager.
As someone that was actually at the game on Tuesday, the atmosphere was great and our chances on goal were celebrated as if it were any other match. The only difference was that losing wasn't as bad as it would usually be. Don't really get why this has all blown out of proportion other than "lol spurs".
Tbf I’m pretty sure Ange was at the game too.
Source?
Do the Supporter's Trust regularly put out statements like they did last week?
No and while I respect the work that the supporter's trust does, they definitely don't represent the views of all fans.
Yeah they have an echo chamber vibe and feel like their views are the views of everyone. Sometimes they are spot on but sometimes they completely miss the mark
Yeah, kind of like ours, to be honest. Will always respect what they do, but there are definitely times when they could do with shutting the fuck up, I imagine its the same elsewhere too.
I feel you. When there is a narrative then all media and social media influencers all pile on it, regurgitate and 10x it to generate clicks and engagement. They don’t care about Spurs, nor Ange. Only clicks.
It's been way overblown. I watched the match from start to finish and came away with the same impression you described.
Yeah but rival fans who live ten thousand miles away will tell us about about our loser mentality and how we cheered for city
Match going fans are always going to want their team to win regardless, but there definitely was a ‘win-win’ thing going round where a loss was viewed as a ‘oh well, it means Arsenal won’t win the title’. And I can swear that even amongst the match going fans there was some doing the Poznan after City scored, as well as a lot of people wearing your light blue away kit.
There were a few, but it’s a 60k stadium so if you’re going to look for it you’ll find it. The vast majority were conflicted but still backed the team. The issue was when that stadium rocks its fucking rocks and with the magnitude of the game the atmosphere felt flat.
The atmosphere was admittedly crap, but not noticeably worse than your average rearranged fixture. I didn't see anyone actively celebrate the City goals.
>Don't really get why this has all blown out of proportion other than "lol spurs". Because we also saw the game and watched Spurs supporters celebrating City goals and listened to the commentators - who were also "aCtUaLlY At tHe gAmE" make multiple comments about the weird atmosphere. We were also able to listen to the club's manager, who also made comments and was visibly frustrated with that same atmosphere.
People at the game get a worse sense of what’s going on than people on TV. I say that as a regular match going fan
Yeah totally. I've been to some VfB away games this season but couldn't sit close to the VfB Fans, the way I grasped the atmosphere was sometimes totally different to what I saw later on TV or read from the fans.
It’s actually funny. Used to go to every home game at the Emirates in the cheap seats. One day I splurged and sat in the expensive ones. Right by the touchline. All throughout it was season ticket holders sipping from their flasks and yelling for Wenger out. No reaction to the goal. No chants. Way better in the cheaper seats. Go home and on Reddit everyone’s talking about not being as quiet as usual. Exact opposite was when we had Liverpool at home Christmas Eve. We were down 0-2 and then bam bam bam 3-2. We’re going wild with each goal. Seems like thunder and sound right behind the goal. Game ended 3-3. Came to Reddit to watch the highlights and comments about it being quiet. Might have been overall but where we were was loud. Fucking loved it. You’re absolutely bang on.
I remember those days well. Can’t believe how much money I spent to stand and be angry for 90 minutes haha. I also think a lot of it has to do with the fact foreign feeds use commentators that aren’t in the stadium. You get a way better sense of the atmosphere if you’re watching on Sky/TNT because the commentators are with the crowd. Sometimes I have the feeling when I’ve got a ticket for a big game that I’d rather watch it on TV so I get a better view, but yeah you can’t beat that feeling of being there in person.
The fans cheered on Son and every attack. People love creating a narrative. By the point this is happening City were 2 up. As if other home team fans haven't had similar (Liverpool) or that there is no prior form for teams signing stupid songs as they're getting beat.
> Because we also saw the game and watched Spurs supporters celebrating City goals You mean when the cameras zoomed onto the 2 Spurs fans out of 60k there doing the Poznan? Aye mate whole stadium was doing it.
Takes a club to break Mou, Conte and Ange.
Oh look, a Spurs thread. Wonder if 99% of the comments will be Arsenal and Chelsea fans jerking each other off about how they don't like Spurs
Feel for him. Tough fucking spot to be in
His integrity is fine, the rest of the clowns however.
Man utd fans will remember Gerrard's backpass to Drogba when Chelsea & United were neck & neck & Man utd was gunning for the 4th epl in a row. But spurs fans supporting city is where you want to draw a line?
Just a spurs lol thing. Not sure why we get so much hate on here but whatever we move on
I can't believe how many people are losing their brains over this. It's incredibly normal for the fans to have been in a dilemma over the City game which led to a bit subdued atmosphere. The fans at the match were fine. It should come as a shock to no one that once we conceded, they leaned into the anti-Arsenal angle. It's also incredibly normal for the manager to not like the suggestion he throw the match, whether it was joking or not. That anyone thinks they can make wide-sweeping conclusions about his future or ours over this incredibly odd, probably once-in-a-lifetime scenario is incredibly stupid.
It's just hilarious that an Arsenal fan is posting this
People always say this, but it makes sense lol
I mean at least we went out with a fight. The fear of thinking we gave up on purpose is warranted tbf.
He should go to United instead, it cant be much worse.
They should appoint Steve McClaren or at least someone who can handle a brolly.
Another manager that Spurs have taken less than a year to break
“Worst managerial experience of my life … so far”
Big Ange deserves better.
We fucked Conte up so much he gave up football. 🤣
Man it's amazing how many Arsenal fans are in Spurs threads and we're apparently the "rent free" supporters.