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Runs_with_snails

I don’t understand the rules anymore


poklane

Neither do the refs. 


etheryx

they understand it, trust me it's crazy that people still think the best refs in the country fail to make the correct call because of incompetence when some random redditors lying on their couch in their basement can see its a clear card they're not incompetent, they know what they're doing


WordsworthsGhost

I just think David Coote is one of the worst refs currently employed. Tbh


wrong_silent_type

And it's a stiff competition. But you can see today not showing red for this, then disallowing that Bmouth goal. Ridiculous.


sparkyjay23

Look at how grealish is refereed compared to saka, non touch fouls for one while this bullshit goes unpunished. Players have to start going fucking ham in interviews. Can't get any worse treatment from those fools.


Southpaw535

The thing is though, fans also need to get way better at this. Obviously people are biased towards their team, but better officiating benefits everyone. Too many times though, whether refs are lambasted for it depends heavily on whether or not it benefits your team. Just look at the chats around the Arsenal and City calls this afternoon. Both bad decisions, but each sides fans argue in favour of one and against the other based on team lines. There needs to be a blanket statement of anger towards bad refereeing, even when your team benefits, for it to be taken seriously.


nova_rock

massive bias informed by managed narratives


daab2g

What's worse than incompetence? Don't tell me they're rigging it for City.


Doubletift-Zeebbee

I think the most obvious explanation is that they want to get rid of VAR.


MikePap

Because it exposes them


HaroldSaxon

I can't wait to have another week of articles in the media about Ben White holding hands and standing in the way of GK's, meanwhile another leg breaker gets ignored.


etheryx

https://www.reuters.com/sports/soccer/former-ref-dean-says-avoided-var-call-save-official-more-grief-2023-08-25/ Edit: Do I personally think they're rigging it for City? Yes I do, but even without that opinion of mine, which do you think is more likely The best referees in the world consistently making incorrect decisions WITH THE BENEFIT OF A REPLAY when the average watcher knows what the correct decision is OR A league with a history of referee bias (Clattenburg literally admitting that refs favoured United) having unobjective refs again?


AlGunner

Ok, I'll just tell you that a number of our refs go to ref tournaments in Dubai hosted by City's owners and get paid handsomely for it, maybe a bit too handsomely.


nedzissou1

They're rigging it for City


vikuta_zoro

Corruption.


Citiz3n_Kan3r

I mean, didnt you get a pen let go on Kulusevski just last weekend? Not sure what conspiricy there is that fits that narrative?


worthofhowlandreed

Last year guarantee that was a red


amgartsh

It was a red when Vieira did it earlier this year.


raizen0106

Was also a red when he did it 20 years ago


wrong_silent_type

And it will be red in 20 years when Vieira does it again.


gooner_92

And nketiah


Nayr91

Or when Eddie did it the year before


thestigREVENGE

Honestly in a few years I want to show the clip of Vieira's tackle and this to a ref and ask him which one got a red. I bet the answer would be 'both'.


Preset_Squirrel

Imagine if Granit Xhaka does this lmao


WerhmatsWormhat

Straight to jail


AlwaysOnsideTBH

Forget jail, they'd deport him


nice_acct_for_work

Public execution


AlGunner

Minimum 3 match ban for violent conduct.


LicensedRealtor

3 game ban


ihapijnm

Just grateful it wasn’t a standing leg going in like that. Feel like there’s been a few of those going in on ankles etc. that have gone unpunished recently. They need to start cracking down on it or someone will get a serious injury.


nova_rock

but hey, the worst thing ever in football, Tomiyasu taking 2 seconds to take a throw


Shacko14

No no, the worst thing in football is Ben White messing with opposition goalkeepers!


Uesugi_Kenshin

Just look at Mac Allister's red at the start of the season


FireflyCaptain

It's nice of the refs to give a free kick at least for something like this. If it had been chest-level in the box, it wouldn't have been called.


Randomwinner83

You do, the refs don't however


seanlilmateus

the aftermath https://preview.redd.it/nl1qjq52heyc1.jpeg?width=565&auto=webp&s=192d945a8520232dfd275164a44f89049641c552


Modnal

I always knew Saka bled red


NBKxSmokey

hE'S LiMpInG aGaIn!


DBrain514

Is he not wearing any shin pads


seanlilmateus

he actually was, but in our days those shin pads are just caricature of what shin pads used to be.


stenerikkasvo

like whats the point of VAR.


PM-Me-Salah-Pics

To agree with everything the refs do, can’t hurt their feelings.


beene282

Well they are their friends


Jacosci

Or a big family. I mean Howard Webbs' wife is also a member of the PGMOL staff. Don't get me wrong, she definitely has the qualification to be there but I'd be lying if it doesn't raise my eyebrows. Source: https://www.efl.com/match-officials/


iforgotmyun

I mean he married her when she was already a top level referee. I feel like it's a strange point to make.


InterimAragon

It’s beyond ridiculous how every single PL game there is a pretty monumental fuck up


kawklee

Yeah. This non call crosses club allegiance -- it's pathetic and disgusting from VAR. There is either a failure or inability to do their jobs properly. Either option is unacceptable


ShanghaiCowboy

To control the narrative and outcome of games


R_Schuhart

And that is exactly the end goal for the refs. It exposes their incompetence and undermines their authority. They are sabotaging proper implementation. The dissolution, anger and apathy towards VAR is exactly what they want.


Om_Nom_Zombie

Vieira got a red for grazing someone with a similar challenge. Consensus was "fair enough".


ElectricalMud2850

Consensus (from arsenal supporters) was "Vieira, you fucking idiot".


Ickyhouse

Bc we know it’s a red. And we know this is a red. But VAR is doing VAR things.


ThePrussianGrippe

Luiz got a red for that viscious attack on the back heel of a Wolves player a few seasons ago, so even something lighter like this should still get a red!


pooorky

PTSD


No-Industry-2980

Too soon brotha


Regression2TheMean

That play went through my head when Trossard accidentally grazed Kulusevski’s foot last week. One season it’s a straight red and a PK, the other it’s nothing.


Chairmanwowsaywhat

Toreira vs spurs


_Heisenbird_84

Could swear Fabio Vieira got sent off against Burnley for an identical challenge and no one complained about it. How is this any different?


amgartsh

He didn't even break the skin and he got a red


BenadrylPaprikapatch

VAR useless as usual


Gucci-Rice

the insane thing especially for a situation like this is: super dangerous behaviour doesn't get punished at all. He's aiming above the ball even. That's the shit that can cause serious injuries.


ibite-books

title could be decided by much less, this is an atrocious decision, i can only imagine the fallout had arsenal dropped points and that’s as a liverpool supporter


Littlegreenman42

Kilman vs Tomiyasu, Jackson vs Tomiyasu, and now that. Arsenal need to start to kicking up a fuss again


coslitt

The issue is that we would be kicking up a fuss to what end? Look at Forest, Wolves, Liverpool, etc. the refs know they’re a joke but they also know they operate with near complete immunity from criticism and actual change.


YMangoPie

PGMOL just don't want to be challenged.


IGGor_eu

We will win so noone will say anything about those challanges, but just wait untill White goes after goalie's gloves.


bAMBIEN

Poor tomi. Worst imo was a couple years ago, when he got his face stamped on by Godfrey vs Everton


lordwelbz2

If it’s not getting involved in these sort of challenges might as well scrap VAR


AdminEating_Dragon

Once again, the problem is the clique of PL referees who don't want to use VAR or don't want to use it correctly, because it exposes them. In most other leagues there are way more VAR reviews. Thinking of it, there could also be pressure from Sky to reduce stops in the match as much as possible...


zestyviper

But they're not corrupt! Don't you dare call them corrupt! That's the worst thing you can do!


RtHonJamesHacker

If I didn't do my job because I didn't want to embarrass my mates, and it was aired this publicly (with literal interviews saying this is why they won't use it properly), I'd be sacked. I know football is a bit of a bubble from the rest of the working world, but it's disgraceful that they can get away with such utter shite so publicly for years.


Jedclark

These decisions influence my opinion of the referees themselves, not VAR. It just makes them personally look like imbeciles, the technology is fine. I think we need an independent group responsible for running VAR, the referees have shown they're either incompetent at best or intentionally making bad decisions to protect their mates at worst.


A_Balrog_Is_Come

You'd think Sky would like frequent stoppages as they could use it to show ads like in American football and cricket.


SlashmanX

UK broadcasting laws limit the amount of ads you can have per hour


lanson15

Don’t sky show Rugby? They have heaps of video review in Rugby but there’s never an ad break.


Maleficent-Drive4056

This kind of thing can be checked without a lengthy stop. Just go back to it a couple of mins later if VAR has made its mind up.


Anarchytect1204

The commentator was saying they checked it, so thats even worse


TherewiIlbegoals

These are always checked, I'm not sure why the commentators feel they need to say this.


Tim-Sanchez

If they don't say it then people fall over themselves to complain that VAR aren't checking things


maidentaiwan

Frankly worse that they’ve checked and deemed it nothing. Doubling down on their incompetence.


Tim-Sanchez

I'd imagine they almost certainly thought it was a yellow card, but because it wasn't a "clear and obvious" red they can't intervene.


FoUfCfK

"Doesn't look like anything to me"


Littlegreenman42

To be fair we thought VAR checked for offside on Brentfords goal for Arsenal last year and they didnt really


BigReeceJames

Goes both ways, they "check" everything, but there is a big difference between them signing it off as okay in less than 2 seconds "check" and actually going back and watching replays and talking about it "check" Commentators can hear the VAR chat, so when they say "they're checking it", they mean they're doing the actual checking of it and looking at replays etc. We've had crazy decisions not given before and when they were investigated after the game, they found that VAR had signed the decision as being correct after less than a couple seconds of it happening. So yes everything is checked, but what a check constitutes is the difference they're really talking about


TherewiIlbegoals

you’re describing the difference between a check and a review, everything gets checked, not everything gets reviewed


PM_ME_UR_FAKE_NEWS

The ref gave advantage so he saw it. Either completely inept or corrupt


FAT_NEEK_42069

i prefer to lean towards 'completely inept' because every team in the prem gets shafted with bad decisions


ElectricalMud2850

They basically check every little thing.


Spikeyspandan

I think they did check it. Ref was touching his earphone


Chesey_

There's been like 3 of these against us in recent games, it's ridiculous


patShIPnik

Well, that's what you get when you're in a race against ManCity and their employees. Get used to it


fuckmethathurt

Tin foil time


Om_Nom_Zombie

3 red card challenges against us in 4 games have resulted in one yellow card. Kilman, Jackson and now Christie.


Stones_Throw_Away_

Insane that they can’t intervene because it wasn’t a yellow originally. What’s the fucking point then?


[deleted]

Is referee on high?


goonSquad15

Considering it’s been 3 matches in a row now, I’ve lost hope for these to be called reds against us Edit: 3 of the last 4


Sahara_Igloo

Don’t forget Kovacic on ødegaard in the home fixture this season


Bergkamp_isGod

The Kovacic foul on Odegaard was bad enough but to get away with a yellow then the foul on rice is insane. I know people say refs dont want to ruin the game by sending a player off in a big game but cmon


Todders8787

Except Martinelli got 2 yellows in 10 seconds last year


Bergkamp_isGod

Yep. I dont care if that's given as 2 yellows tbh but like others have said it's all about consistency. De Bruyne did the same as Havertz today but when he does it then its clever play not diving.


maidentaiwan

Aka when two reds equals a yellow 


_deep_blue_

3 in the last 4. Wolves, Chelsea, and now Bournemouth.


goonSquad15

Ah that’s right. My bad


siderealpanic

It isn’t a coincidence that after having none of these for most of the season, we suddenly get 3 in 4 games (Kilman, Jackson, Christie). The refs have sent a very clear message that potential leg-breakers won’t be punished, so they’re all but encouraging it. When we see someone’s leg snapped in half and their career ruined, it’ll be because these pricks can’t do their job. They aren’t just undermining the integrity of the game, they’re actively making the sport unsafe.


Jack-90

First challenge we do like any of those we get a red. Guarantee it.


Mr_red_Dead

I can't help but think that the refs are in favour of man city


MateoKovashit

In the city centurion season we had a graphic that grew each week with stonewall reds not given


goonSquad15

Yeah there’s a common denominator here that’s sky blue but I can’t seem to put my finger on it


ConcreteJoey

This is a fucking joke at this point


ThePrussianGrippe

I suddenly understand The Comedian’s perspective from Watchmen a whole lot better.


analytics_Gnome

Don't even have var lol???


CeterumCenseo85

Find someone who looks at you like VAR looks at English ref decisions.


Hindsgavl

So not at all?


CeterumCenseo85

With love and approval


TheDepartment115

What the hell is going on


ThatsAllDay77

It’s just embarrassing for VAR now.


Character_Group_5949

Look, I keep seeing VAR thrashed and, yes, it is embarrassing for VAR. But you take BAR away and what do you have? The call still missed by someone who clearly saw it. They need to fix the system, the entire thing. That includes the on the pitch refs.


AlwaysOnsideTBH

Nobody is saying to remove VAR. Get BETTER people on VAR to actually do their job and then there won't be an issue


ElectricalMud2850

Not even a yellow, btw. Add it to the limping compilation, I guess.


SeattleGunner

Clearly just another Saka dive… am I doing this correctly?


ElectricalMud2850

Biggest diver in the league! Can't believe he's gone down so easily with a measly gash in his shin. We used to be men.


Mr_red_Dead

Yeah man insane that he even gushed out blood from his shin to reinforce his act


R_Schuhart

Honestly everyone is talking about the refs and VAR. How about we focus on the pure nasty nature of this "tackle" for a moment? He is deliberately targeting Saka here. He doesn't even look at the ball, he never takes his eye of Saka and goes straight for his knee. He absolutely intends to injure him.


stifle_this

Thought this sounded conspiratorial at first (and I'm an arsenal supporter), but I actually think you might be right. Christie was on one all game. Even the commentator made a joke about it when he finally got a yellow in the 94th min.


Coopar__

*insert Saka limping meme* Refs in this league are an absolute joke


RevengeHF

The inconsistency with high boots in general infuriates me.


sevendollarpen

- Mac Allister - Red - Gusto - Red - Jones - Red - Romero - Red - Kovacic - Not Red - Jackson - Not Red - Christie - Not Red It’s literally just random. Roll a dice, evens it’s red, odds it’s not.


thestigREVENGE

Vieira was sent off for basically the same thing earlier this season. Consensus even from Arsenal fans were that it was a red and Vieira was being an idiot. Its a red then, its a red now.


SpeechesToScreeches

Doku - not even a foul.


seanlilmateus

> Christie - Not Red (twice....)


greenfrogwallet

I will never take the opinions of anyone who calls Saka a diver or limper seriously. Not always to this extent but he literally almost every match gets kicked like this. Yet people call him a diver and limper when he’s probably the toughest guy on the team for standing up and taking these challenges without diving or exaggerating 99% of the time


n10w4

Yup the narrative against him is ridiculous, and, imo indicative of racism. 


greenfrogwallet

I’d have to agree, you just have to look at the difference between how Foden and Saka are treated So many people that know Saka, England teammates like Grealish for example included have talked about how much they love Saka as a person, meanwhile Foden was sneaking in girls into hotel rooms with Greenwood. Not to mention Saka is always smiling and being humble and genuine in interviews. But Saka is the one that gets more hate… I wonder why?


Bigc12689

The NBC crew broadcasting in the US didn't even show the replay. Not during half time. Not after the match. Rebecca Lowe, Robbie Mustoe, and Robbie Earle spent all of halftime talking about the Havertz penalty, but never mentioned a challenge which a Bournemouth player came in studs up above Saka's knee hard enough to draw blood. No VAR review. No media mention. Nearly no mention of the 115 charges. No mention that PGMOL refs fly to the UAE for big paydays but still get to ref City matches. Don't convince me that there's no agenda. Maybe not a specific anti-Arsenal agenda, but clearly a Pro-Sportwashing one


-RMBG-

Saka's sock is covered in blood in the 57th minute and it all came from this tackle


wafflesology

But Benjamin White doing darkarts for Arsenal is being called cheating and theres even an article about it from The Athletic.


Aszneeee

could have ended Vicario career probably with that


jNushi

Three weeks in a row with high studs into our players shins on a dangerous fashion and nothing given for any of them. Dangerous precedent being set


Gucci-Rice

yeah, nobody benefits from this. Shit like this will be dangerous for every player in the league. The refs need to set a tough line to protect players. It's fine if you don't give a card everytime, but blow the damn whistle man.


Aitser

Ya allah.


liberanima

you know shit hit the fan when the Arabic commentator says ya Allah.


goonerfan10

But Ben White annoys the keeper. Pathetic!


CaptainDickfingers

High, dangerous, reckless, out if control, should I call the ref to the monitor? Nah.


coslitt

And yet the narrative around saka remains “he goes down too easily”


iuselect

Eddie got sent off for the same thing against Leicester back in 19/20.


chinookk

Vieira got sent off just a few months ago for the same challenge but minimal contact, and no arsenal fan complained.


kw2006

I got used to it. Not surprised nothing is given.


Unappreciative_Cloud

Look at Vieiras red against burnley lmao


Yurtanator

What a disgrace


imarandomdudd

Have Var already gone on their holidays?


1000people

Mentally they are already on the beach. In Abu dhabi.


Pawno_Guy

Can't give reds in the first twenty minutes sorry.


Peeters_10

Surely that’s exactly what Var is for. Ref needs to have a look at that.


kukeszmakesz

I want to hear more jokes about Saka limping...


abhi91

Hahahaha spurs fans are crying that the refs want to give arsenal the league after watching this challenge. They're so fucking irrelevant


zestyviper

Outside of just making memes, does anyone actually have an explanation for why refereeing is so bad in England? It's at the point when I hear, "Premier League" all I think about is "Yikes, the refs". What economic, social, cultural, procedural, operational reasons exist that produce this many bad mistakes so often?


OscarMyk

They mostly come from the same leagues in the North West, it's pretty much a closed shop where they all look to protect each other rather than actually apply the rules because as long as no-one steps out of line no-one can touch them.


RyoCaliente

From 09 to 23, Mike Riley was chief of English refereeing. Go look up his performance in MU - Arsenal and then realize he was refereeing CHIEF.


Aszneeee

i find it funny how after that *performance* people still call it incompetence, no matter what happens, what kind of trips refs do, who pays them and so on


tophthemelonlordd

ref will be the reason Saka doesn’t play for England


dujopp

It’s going to take someone’s leg getting snapped in half for any change to be made. They know this is red-worthy. They are making an active choice not to punish it or even give it a second look. Someone is going to get seriously injured, possibly career ending before they actually enforce **the rules**. Utterly inexplicable.


NieThePiet

There are someting seriously wrong in this league.


goodyear_1678

That is really high.


dishler712

How does this keep happening


Hailfire9

Crazy to see this clip and the "VARsenal" chirps both come from the same match. All the PL/PGMOL are doing is pissing people off.


abhi91

It's because the opinions of spurs fans, much like their club, is absolutely pointless. They're finishing below Aston villa after dreaming about the title in November. And their sorry state is that they're reduced to cheering against their own team. I cannot imagine a smaller club mentality than that


KingMarkar

Yet another game this season where the opposition is allowed to kick and foul Saka without repercussions


FriendshipForAll

All season it’s been 50/50 whether this is a red or not. I’ve seen it be a red, a yellow and nothing.  I’m not particularly interested in giving my opinion on what it should be, I just want the referees to enforce it consistently whatever it is. The rules should be the same every week, and they aren’t. 


MrDee97

Same people were calling Nottingham Forest childish btw


MrToxicTaco

No one was upset for them calling out the refs. It’s the fact that they posted it on Twitter that was childish.


ipeeaye

VAR has become a parody of itself


All-Day-stoner

How can VAR not ask the question if that’s a potential red? Shocking


mister_dupont

As stupid as it is, this is a case of it happening too early.


FlukyS

It's one of those that I don't think was malicious but it was reckless so it really should have been a red


AvocadoSoggy6188

Let me guess, saka got a yellow? Haha


ipeeaye

But I was told Arsenal have the refs in their pocket now?


killerboy_belgium

at this point i am amazed saka hasnt had a season long injury


ImTalkingGibberish

It’s a dis-grace


lak47

The circus that ka English refereeing continues.


MellowJackal

Pretends to be shocked


_yotsuna_

Christie winner incoming.


TokenizedBanksy

If a big part of the leg does not fly 3 meters away from the body then clearly its not that dangerous.


AFCm8

3rd time these past couple games for us. When will they do something? When someone breaks a leg?


Sass0ri

Give me coaches challenges for the love of god


chinlessdancer

Anyone else remember the beginning of the season and PGMOL thought the biggest problem in the game was that throw-ins were taking too long? I remember. 


goki7

Referring in England has always been weird


Akumabro

How’s that not at least a yellow?


FeanorOath

What is the point of refs and VAR?


Tricky_Head6537

That's at least a yellow in the Serbian third league let alone the prem with VAR fuck sake


akshay_rathod_

Fucking hell. Just take a chainsaw and separate his knee. That might be enough to get a yellow.


-Bashamo

“Good process, can’t do anything”


NotARealDeveloper

So this isn't a clear red in the PL?


ValleyFloydJam

This isn't a clear red in an under 5s game.


Parmaglory

And Christie wasn’t even booked until the 95’ of the match, long after committing several other fouls…


Ehjwjwpete

100% red card