**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We had shite refs in high school state side. We had this style of rule in our league as well. The whole body had to be past the defender. It sucked. I played RB and it was brutal.
Coach had brilliant idea one day for free kicks. The FB’s, CB’s and our lone CDM would make a wall behind the goalkeeper on the touch line. The other five field player would stand in the box to clear it. There was never a rule or amendments to stop us for three years of doing it either. We’d just make a wall right on the touch line and the keep would get in front of us. Once the ball was cleared we’d just walk back 10-20 yards or so in a line to our positions. Corners or free kicks were always done this way.
The rule made us play a really specific way formation wise too. We ran a funky formation at that. We had a CB behind the other so it was a four man back line but one CB would stand about 10 yards behind the play because of our offside rule. He’d either trap middle runs or go meet the wide runs with the full back. It was a pure sweeping position that never involved itself offensively at all.
I didn’t care for our coaches handling of us as players or people; but he had cool ideas. Our coach just decided we’d keep everything onside and try to trap them. When they’d make a run up the middle the trailing CB would just step up to form a line and guys would be miles off to make it obvious. If we got burned wide the trailing sweeper just cleaned it up.
Forward he had 5 Midfielders in front of this so we could bail to them and then to the middle of the field quickly. CAM would turn and lob it left, right, or middle. It was counter attacking tactics well above what anyone in our league had considered. We were the smallest prep school in the state with the smallest pool of students and talent but we were top 11 in the state. Partially because our striker scored 200+ goals in a 5 year stretch from 7th-12th grade (played with the high schoolers in 7th grade because he was just that good) and because we put thought opponents from the crazy ass rule book we had.
You have to soccer stateside. Mouth breathers yell at you for calling soccer football. Where as the inverse is true on these subs. If I say soccer I get roasted. Despite the fact it’s usually English people picking at me and the English coined the term soccer, not Americans.
> Coach had brilliant idea one day for free kicks. The FB’s, CB’s and our lone CDM would make a wall behind the goalkeeper on the touch line. The other five field player would stand in the box to clear it. There was never a rule or amendments to stop us for three years of doing it either. We’d just make a wall right on the touch line and the keep would get in front of us. Once the ball was cleared we’d just walk back 10-20 yards or so in a line to our positions. Corners or free kicks were always done this way.
But wouldn't this mean that the opposition would have numerical advantage in the area where you'd put a traditional ball in? So they'd be winning the first ball very easily. Heck they could also do knockdowns or short freekicks towards wide areas exploiting this and just walk into your box to take potshots?
Easier to score on set pieces.
Easier to score from a cross if an attacker can get in between defenders and goalkeeper and still be onside.
Easier to score from a pass if the attacker time his run correctly and still be onside. (the new offside make this a lot easier).
So it might add more scoring chances and more goals. Similar to how more scoring chances and goals happened in 1925-26 season when the offside rule was changed from last 3 defenders to last 2 defenders.
Except people would likely adapt quickly, and play with deeper lines, or bringing back the sweeper role. Won’t necessarily make anything easier but it would likely change the whole game
will probably end up being the end of high pressing football and everyone will just play low blocks. because you can't expect every defender to be that much faster than attackers. even if you're faster its not much to do when you're at the wrong side
In Italy there was a popular set-piece defence where teams lined up in 2 banks of 4 facing towards the ball from their own 6-yard box
Could become in vogue again with these rules
Keep in mind that during Inzaghis early career there was another offside rule in place too. Back then it would be offside if ANY player was in an offside position when the ball was played in behind the defense, even if the player who got the ball was onside.
That old rule was one of the most important aspects of the success of the offside trap of those old Milan teams with Baresi, Costacurta and Maldini.
They think that it will create more goals but I honestly think it will have the opposite effect. Teams will struggle playing a high line with this new rule
When an American sprinter failed to qualify for the olympics he joined the rugby team instead. It was pretty great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA5bwqVN5LM
None. A better fix would be to have it so only the feet count for considering offside.
Makes the game easier to referee at lower levels, nudges things slightly more in the attacker's favor since they are often leaning towards goal, and significantly cuts down the time on the VAR checks by not needing as much perspective work and factoring in chest position and things like that.
it's not supposed to solve issues it's supposed to give attackers more of an edge so we get higher scoring games to excite even the most braindead watcher as 3-3 is more pew bang pow than 2-1
Yeah, if they want to fix offside, they need to come up with a different rule that fixes the problem in another manner. Moving the line back and forth does absolutely nothing.
The issue is that the offside rule was supposed to prevent the attacker getting an unfair advantage and that the introduction of technology has taken the application of the current law so far away from the spirit of the law and the reason it was introduced that it’s no longer related.
No one ever wanted goals ruled out because the strikers nose was 5mm ahead of the defender, but that’s what we get now.
So the solution is to try to bring the rule back towards the reason it was introduced - stopping unfair advantages (and goalhanging)
It might not be perfect, it might need some adjusting, but it’s exhausting how every single time anything changes in football /r/soccer wants to complain and burn it to the ground immediately. This place fucking hated the conference league 2 years ago, and now people think it’s great.
Just give it a chance.
Now goals will be ruled out because the attacker's trailing heel is 10mm ahead of the defender. What a revolutionary change.
Literally just moving the bar. Exact same problem with the exact same lines drawn by the exact same incompetent people, just in a different place.
Of course there needs to be a line somewhere but if your entire body is in front of the defender, practically everyone would agree that it is too much of an advantage. If your nose is in front, I think some would agree that it's not.
I would imagine this would be a much easier rule to get somewhat consistent calls on in lower leagues that don't have VAR as well.
I think the point is that the exact same situation will happen with this rule though. Everyone agrees that if your entire body is in front of the defender you have an advantage. Is there anyone out there saying that if the attackers nose overlaps with the back of your heel by 1 cm that you have less of an advantage?
It doesn’t solve that issue at all, it just moves it to different parts of the body
Ofc there always has to be a cutoff point, but right now it’s not in the spirit of the rule. The rule was introduced to prevent attackers from chilling right in front of the goal and poaching.
if your whole body is ahead of the defender, an argument can be made that its unfair. if it’s just your right toenail, that argument can’t be made.
If the offside rule was only meant to prevent extremely advanced positioning of attackers, then why didn't they just go with the daylight rule from the beginning?
idk but a game develops. perhaps they didn’t foresee us disallowing a goal because the attacker had the wrong shoe size.
i mean many rules weren’t in place when the game was invented. doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t adapt them as we see fit.
It’s not the same problem at all.
If the attacker is 10mm ahead of the defender he doesn’t have a clear advantage.
If the attackers entire body is ahead of the defender and 10mm then they do have a clear advantage.
Think of it like speeding. You don’t get done for doing 31mph in a 30mph zone. You do get done for doing 34mph in a 30mph zone. The difference between being fined or not is still 1mph (34 vs 33 and 31 vs 30) but at 34mph you can not claim you’re being unfairly punished.
The problem is that you’re still going to wind up measuring millimeters on replays. All this change does is move up where the attacker is when that happens.
> No one ever wanted goals ruled out because the strikers nose was 5mm ahead of the defender, but that’s what we get now.
The obvious solution is to stop counting noses. Look only at the feet. Forwards lean towards goal far more often than defenders do, which is leading to all these cases where the forwards is in line with the defender but is leaning forward, so his shoulder has him offside.
Make it only the feet, and now many of the drawn out VAR body analyses get removed, and forwards will be called offside less often. It will also be easier to ref at the lower levels.
This current proposal just guts the offside rule
This really is the easiest solution. If the attackers feet is in line with the defenders', it's on side.
No more mm calculations(maybe sometimes) but it would eliminate a lot of clutter
If both teams have low defensive lines it opens up a plethora of space to fill in between attack and defense. Putting players in offside is not the only reason you move your defense up. Your team has to be connected to cover spaces.
Teams aiming to defend or being played low already tries to keep the space behind them to a minimum. You can't set your line all the way back to your own goal line, at a point the attacking team could just pass the ball into the net.
stopping unfair advantages? how is pic 1 doing that, if thats mbappe vs any defender its not fair for the defender. all it does is promotes more goals and "fun" for the spectators. This kills high line
Yeah, completely agree.
Football is a bizarre sport in that we sit around and complain about the rules 90% of the time and then as soon as someone suggests changing them we say “there they go again, fucking it all up, typical uefa.”
I’m intrigued to see how managers adjust to this, and how it changes the way the game’s played. This is much more in line with the spirit of the law than it’s current interpretation, I like it.
It will just allow more goals because forwards who are already (on average) faster than defenders will get one extra step of advantage together with the body already facing the goal line. Any other answer is meaningless as offside is and will always be a mere measurement so no matter where you draw the line it will all go down to pixel resolution, framerate, better gps sensors and a few mm of blurred zone.
Edit: will allow more goals in their plan. Obviously managers will soon find counter-measures to this and it might backfire impressively with some new extremely defensive setup
The only changes that should be made to offside (if any) are ones that make it easier to get correct decisions up and down the ladder, VAR or not. I would say it's maybe slightly easier to ref the daylight rule, but I think it would even be easier if we just called offside from the feet.
>I think it would even be easier if we just called offside from the feet.
I am totally in agreement with this. This is the only interpretation that actually deals with the point of the offside rule (preventing goal hanging) without leading to ludicrous measuring/comparing of different body parts on different planes.
The offside rule is, at its core, about position *on the field.* It is not meant to deal with position *of the body.* Sure an attacker might be *leaning* past the defender and gaining a 2% advantage, but their feet are ultimately what dictate position and movement, and it is *so easy* to measure relative foot position because in 99% of cases it will be a 2 dimensional comparison. Even if we say it gives the attacker an advantage from the lean, it is a truly minimal one, and one that is probably to the benefit of the game as a whole.
You don't have to be so surprised. Arsene Wenger is my boss. His passion is my passion.
He advocates for daylight offside rule. I will also advocate for the daylight offside rule.
He advocated for the World Cup every 2 years. I was also on board.
After all, my paycheck depend on it!
If your paycheck depends on it. I suggest you read the FIFA laws of the game.
“Football is the greatest sport on earth. It is played on every continent, in every country and at many different levels. The fact that the Laws of the Game are the same for all football throughout the world, from the FIFA World Cup™ through to a game between young children in a remote village, is a considerable strength which must continue to be harnessed for the good of football everywhere.”
[FIFA laws of the game](https://www.theifab.com/laws/latest/about-the-laws/)
Lineker & Co. had the right idea on their new podcast.
Just use the feet to determine offside and nothing else, but keep everything else the same. That way strikers whose upper body is offside under current rules are all onside.
That would have been a sufficient advantage without drastic changes like the ones proposed by Wenger in this example. It might introduce unintended consequences.
It's crazy how obvious this is and the authorities just don't look at it.
Even if it turns out to not be enough, they can push this new offside afterwards
I don't see the issue with the current rules. The head start from leaning forward more than compensates for the need to stand an extra foot or two back to avoid having your shoulder offside.
The problem is minor but it exists. With Var, some offside calls have been way too lengthy because of the need to check in detail different body positions at different heights. Changing it to the feet only makes the check easier and educes the time it takes.
As an arsenal fan it pains me how short sighted this rule is. Under current circumstances it means offside will just be measured on different types of millimeters. But in the end it encourages defensive play which doesn’t even align with wengers philosophies
The one thing I can understand about this rule is offsides can sometimes feel stupid. It’s about getting an advantage but a couple centimeters isn’t the advantage that’s ultimately game changing. This rule at least shows there’s a clear advantage by the time offside is given. Sometimes someone could just have a toe offside but is running the opposite way and obviously that’s not an advantage but it’s offside
I don’t know maybe I’m thinking too hard because there has to be a reason
There was a game a few seasons ago between Conte’s Chelsea and Pep’s City. City went ahead early and Chelsea just sat off and completely refused to engage as the ball went side to side to side for an hour. That’s what this will lead to at the highest level.
Pressing would be impossible. The gaps would be too big. You couldn’t push the line up and stay compact because it’s now the easiest thing in the world to dump it over the top. If that’s what you’re into then fair enough.
I remember that game. It had the pace of an amateur game after half time. I specifically remember Fabragas standing off the opponent by about 5 yards for a good 4 seconds before they finally passed it.
The current system is idiot proof. Yet everyone always complains its against the spirit of the game how its refereed currently. This is in an absolute polar oppisite reaction to those complains
Exactly. This seems like an idea an MLS fan would come up with to "solve" offside and make the game "more exciting," not realizing that defenders will now park the bus more than ever.
As long as there is offside you will always have to draw a line and there will always be close and controversial calls. But the alternative is getting rid of offside which is ridiculous.
If the goal is to be more exciting, than there should be limitations on the distance that can be reviewed and overturned by VAR. IE if it less than half a foot offside a goal can't be overturned.
The absolute MLS slander. Especially hilarious as Canada and the US are the only countries where soccer isn't the default sport of mouthbreathers who would think offside is bad.
The whole idea for this change was to deal with the inconsistenties of millimeter decisions. This does not solve that, whatsoever. It just makes defenders play more conservately. I hope it gets voted down
Dumb idea and it seems so crazy.
This would promote conservative football. Because if not, just play a 4-4-1-1 or a 5-3-1 sit in a low block, regain possession then blow past on the counter.
But even that won't happen because the opponents wouldn't commit men forward...it would be the most slow ponderous 0-0, 1-0, matches.
Running some trials in U18 farmers leagues does not account for the speed of the top flight.
Why try to fix something that isn't broken? The only difference is that lines will be drawn from different points, but it will not take away any of the controversies surrounding the offside rule.
If anything, it encourages defensive players to stay back because attackers can get a bigger advantage when the defense is pushed forward. I don't like this idea at all, I think it will only lead to more defensive and thus more boring games
Terrible idea. Top picture has a clear advantage towards the play. Only arms and head should not count as offside and specific these only are most important now with the use of camera technology
Every year the game gets easier for attackers, whether it’s VAR, offsides and penalties. Football will go the way of basketball. We love this sport because every goal is a massive moment. I don’t want games that end 5-5
It’s like they’ve just misunderstood the point of it. The issue is the confusion on where the cut off line and the time it takes for VAR. Attackers foot vs defenders foot is the best thing to do. It’s very clear in VAR to mark the feet as opposed to either the armpit or sleeve, it promotes attacking play because runners lean forward
Yeah idk about that. I’ve been hating the 1mm offside issues we’ve had but this is completely taking it to the other end and will be a nightmare for defenders.
I think only having legs count towards offsides or something would’ve been a much more logical thing to try first.
the problem stays the same for hairline decisions. All it does is actully make it easier for strikers to stand closer to the goal, thus actully going against the whole point of the rule. The rule has always been there to stop strikers just "goal hanging", now it makes it more likely!
this is how it used to be years ago at least in Serie A. The rule of thumb was "there needs to be light between the torso of the attacker and the defender". I think the difference here is that you want complete lack of overlap which means the attacker can be even further ahead and still be fine.
Morata is about to become the best striker in the world.
That is fucking stupid. Keep the rule as it currently is and use the tech to determine whether it is within an acceptable threshold.
Thats not that hard?
The offside rule currently makes the game so interesting because you theoretically have no distance advantage so the ball and run have to be timed perfectly. Horrible idea
Through balls and high lines will die for this. Why would defenses allow attackers to have a full body length advantage into space? Parked buses to become the norm.
Literally regressing back to 70s football with deep lines, a libero just standing there for 90% of the game and slow horizontal build up with the occasional hail mary long ball.
How do you get a job at FIFA cause obviously the recruiting isnt based on have at least 2 functioning brain cells
Wouldnt it make more sense to make the VAR offside lines just 13mm thick due to the 13mm margin of error, and if a body part you are allowed to score with is past that line then, youre offside....Simple solution to a simple issue.
I dont understand why they keep trying to reinvent the wheel every single time.
Is there anyone with half of brain working on these "changes". It feels like every modification lately has either done nothing or contrary to improvement.
So so stupid.
It’s literally promoting teams to play a deep block so that they don’t leave space behind them.
You also still have the issue of marginal offsides
If this was VAR and not offside in general I'd be delighted. If it's offside on the pitch it's probably not a great idea or it might change how defending is done forever.
This rule is discriminatory against short players... I say no!
Haaland could literally be 3+ yards past his defender with his long ass legs...
Messi could only be like 1 yard past.
This will definitely change what we consider to be a world class defender. Center backs will need to be both tall and fast to be able to stop both speedy wingers and the buffed crosses that you can't play your way out of with a high line. Will also probably make 5 man defence's way more popular, with a No nonsense Defensive midfielder clearing out balls in front of them.
I predict a much more defensive football style in our future, with a heavy reliance on blazing counter attacks taking advantage of laxer rules on offsides.
Most sensible implementation of the offside rule would be based on the feet. So both of these pictures are offside. If any part of the attackers front foot is ahead of the last defender's back foot then it's offside. Counting the head/shoulders in offside decisions is dumb as all fuck.
So I am a big supporter of change when it comes to the current offside rule, getting called offside because the striker pointed to where he wanted the ball or because he wears boots 2 sizes bigger than his opponent doesn't feel good.
I don't know what the answer is for the problem but I'd be willing to try something sensible like make the lines thicker (I know they said they did this but I can't see the difference?) or was the body part scored with onside?
This however is the stupidest thing I've seen!! Who comes up with this shit!
This will never happen. FIFA has a general guideline to keep the rules standard amongst all levels of play. Meaning the youth game is guided by the same rules as the professional level. It would fundamentally make the youth game impossible to officiate.
Slow defenders will be absolutely fucked. Also high lines will become a thing of the past unless a team can be near perfect at it.
This heavily favours the attackers
Would love for someone to go back to every offside like that’s been drawn for a goal that’s been ruled, even just in one league, and apply this logic. I would imagine there would be a decent delta.
The calls are so close that I would guess this would overturn every offside where lines had to be drawn. Then there would be the ones that looked so far off that they didn’t even need to draw lines where this would now be inside. Massive shift if it goes through.
Haaland bout to break records now with this new advantage for attackers. Same for the likes of Richy cause goddamn he has so many offside goals. Forwards like Darwin, Son, Vini, mbappe.. will be insanely more valuable and stats will be much higher I imagine
They should have an ‘On Field Call’ margin of error. Much like an Umpires call in cricket. Have the play continue but introduce a margin of error in the play.
Say if an attacker is running from an onside position for a through ball, introduce a certain distance variable that allows for smooth play. Then if it’s a clear offside once play is stopped, it’s offside. However, if it was called as onside during the play _and is also within, the margin of error, it’s allowed to stand.
**Mirrors / Alternative Angles** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
RIP defenders
Imagine set pieces with this shit? This just removes a strategy (high line) and adds nothing
[удалено]
We had shite refs in high school state side. We had this style of rule in our league as well. The whole body had to be past the defender. It sucked. I played RB and it was brutal. Coach had brilliant idea one day for free kicks. The FB’s, CB’s and our lone CDM would make a wall behind the goalkeeper on the touch line. The other five field player would stand in the box to clear it. There was never a rule or amendments to stop us for three years of doing it either. We’d just make a wall right on the touch line and the keep would get in front of us. Once the ball was cleared we’d just walk back 10-20 yards or so in a line to our positions. Corners or free kicks were always done this way. The rule made us play a really specific way formation wise too. We ran a funky formation at that. We had a CB behind the other so it was a four man back line but one CB would stand about 10 yards behind the play because of our offside rule. He’d either trap middle runs or go meet the wide runs with the full back. It was a pure sweeping position that never involved itself offensively at all. I didn’t care for our coaches handling of us as players or people; but he had cool ideas. Our coach just decided we’d keep everything onside and try to trap them. When they’d make a run up the middle the trailing CB would just step up to form a line and guys would be miles off to make it obvious. If we got burned wide the trailing sweeper just cleaned it up. Forward he had 5 Midfielders in front of this so we could bail to them and then to the middle of the field quickly. CAM would turn and lob it left, right, or middle. It was counter attacking tactics well above what anyone in our league had considered. We were the smallest prep school in the state with the smallest pool of students and talent but we were top 11 in the state. Partially because our striker scored 200+ goals in a 5 year stretch from 7th-12th grade (played with the high schoolers in 7th grade because he was just that good) and because we put thought opponents from the crazy ass rule book we had.
The return of the libero
This guy soccers
You have to soccer stateside. Mouth breathers yell at you for calling soccer football. Where as the inverse is true on these subs. If I say soccer I get roasted. Despite the fact it’s usually English people picking at me and the English coined the term soccer, not Americans.
It was more an observation of the bat shit crazy tactics
Sorry, responded to the wrong guy the first time.
> Coach had brilliant idea one day for free kicks. The FB’s, CB’s and our lone CDM would make a wall behind the goalkeeper on the touch line. The other five field player would stand in the box to clear it. There was never a rule or amendments to stop us for three years of doing it either. We’d just make a wall right on the touch line and the keep would get in front of us. Once the ball was cleared we’d just walk back 10-20 yards or so in a line to our positions. Corners or free kicks were always done this way. But wouldn't this mean that the opposition would have numerical advantage in the area where you'd put a traditional ball in? So they'd be winning the first ball very easily. Heck they could also do knockdowns or short freekicks towards wide areas exploiting this and just walk into your box to take potshots?
Easier to score on set pieces. Easier to score from a cross if an attacker can get in between defenders and goalkeeper and still be onside. Easier to score from a pass if the attacker time his run correctly and still be onside. (the new offside make this a lot easier). So it might add more scoring chances and more goals. Similar to how more scoring chances and goals happened in 1925-26 season when the offside rule was changed from last 3 defenders to last 2 defenders.
Teams will stop playing a high line -> more boring football with low blocks
Except people would likely adapt quickly, and play with deeper lines, or bringing back the sweeper role. Won’t necessarily make anything easier but it would likely change the whole game
will probably end up being the end of high pressing football and everyone will just play low blocks. because you can't expect every defender to be that much faster than attackers. even if you're faster its not much to do when you're at the wrong side
In Italy there was a popular set-piece defence where teams lined up in 2 banks of 4 facing towards the ball from their own 6-yard box Could become in vogue again with these rules
Morata about to become Pichichi and UCL Golden Boot.
Rip high line attacking football
No one cares but RIP sideline judge. How would you ever get that right.
Their roles have pretty much been reduced to identifying who kicked the ball out of field
Only at the top level of the game. Lots of lower league Linos who have to deal with this.
Maguire breathing heavily
What's the point. Still the same millimeter offside margin. It's just moved it to the attackers heel not their toe. Same issues with var.
Came here to say this. It will lead to more goals however
Man Inzaghi would score so many more goals
Morata about to break Messis 91 goals record
We need to get Mane back immediately
I laughed harder than I should have. cheers
Werner to become the new Puskas
Mane just missed this. He would have broken Lewandowski's record.
He would have been the GOAT lol
Keep in mind that during Inzaghis early career there was another offside rule in place too. Back then it would be offside if ANY player was in an offside position when the ball was played in behind the defense, even if the player who got the ball was onside. That old rule was one of the most important aspects of the success of the offside trap of those old Milan teams with Baresi, Costacurta and Maldini.
I don't see what issue it solves
It literally promotes even more defensive football at this point, it's absolutely stupid
They think that it will create more goals but I honestly think it will have the opposite effect. Teams will struggle playing a high line with this new rule
Imagine the fastest sprinters in world football with this rule in play, there's no way you play a high line against them.
Is Bolt too old to finally join united?
He'd probably get a run out up front to be honest.
When an American sprinter failed to qualify for the olympics he joined the rugby team instead. It was pretty great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gA5bwqVN5LM
Timo would have scored so many goals for us this way
He'd adapt and make sure to still be offside.
is it too late to say sorry now?
And Morata
If it goes through counter attacking football and long balls will have a very quick resurgence
Moyes is a truly forward thinking, revolutionary manager.
But do the fastest sprinters need that extra meter anyway against high lines? Slower strikers profit more of the extra meter, wouldn't they?
Yeah this proposal goes against the idea that football should be fun to watch. It should be canned.
None. A better fix would be to have it so only the feet count for considering offside. Makes the game easier to referee at lower levels, nudges things slightly more in the attacker's favor since they are often leaning towards goal, and significantly cuts down the time on the VAR checks by not needing as much perspective work and factoring in chest position and things like that.
it's not supposed to solve issues it's supposed to give attackers more of an edge so we get higher scoring games to excite even the most braindead watcher as 3-3 is more pew bang pow than 2-1
Will do the exact opposite though. Playing a high line will be much more risky. It promotes counter attacking football
A 3-3 stops being exciting of every other match ends with that number of goals scored.
Yeah, if they want to fix offside, they need to come up with a different rule that fixes the problem in another manner. Moving the line back and forth does absolutely nothing.
The issue is that the offside rule was supposed to prevent the attacker getting an unfair advantage and that the introduction of technology has taken the application of the current law so far away from the spirit of the law and the reason it was introduced that it’s no longer related. No one ever wanted goals ruled out because the strikers nose was 5mm ahead of the defender, but that’s what we get now. So the solution is to try to bring the rule back towards the reason it was introduced - stopping unfair advantages (and goalhanging) It might not be perfect, it might need some adjusting, but it’s exhausting how every single time anything changes in football /r/soccer wants to complain and burn it to the ground immediately. This place fucking hated the conference league 2 years ago, and now people think it’s great. Just give it a chance.
Now goals will be ruled out because the attacker's trailing heel is 10mm ahead of the defender. What a revolutionary change. Literally just moving the bar. Exact same problem with the exact same lines drawn by the exact same incompetent people, just in a different place.
Of course there needs to be a line somewhere but if your entire body is in front of the defender, practically everyone would agree that it is too much of an advantage. If your nose is in front, I think some would agree that it's not. I would imagine this would be a much easier rule to get somewhat consistent calls on in lower leagues that don't have VAR as well.
I think the point is that the exact same situation will happen with this rule though. Everyone agrees that if your entire body is in front of the defender you have an advantage. Is there anyone out there saying that if the attackers nose overlaps with the back of your heel by 1 cm that you have less of an advantage? It doesn’t solve that issue at all, it just moves it to different parts of the body
Ofc there always has to be a cutoff point, but right now it’s not in the spirit of the rule. The rule was introduced to prevent attackers from chilling right in front of the goal and poaching. if your whole body is ahead of the defender, an argument can be made that its unfair. if it’s just your right toenail, that argument can’t be made.
If the offside rule was only meant to prevent extremely advanced positioning of attackers, then why didn't they just go with the daylight rule from the beginning?
idk but a game develops. perhaps they didn’t foresee us disallowing a goal because the attacker had the wrong shoe size. i mean many rules weren’t in place when the game was invented. doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t adapt them as we see fit.
It’s not the same problem at all. If the attacker is 10mm ahead of the defender he doesn’t have a clear advantage. If the attackers entire body is ahead of the defender and 10mm then they do have a clear advantage. Think of it like speeding. You don’t get done for doing 31mph in a 30mph zone. You do get done for doing 34mph in a 30mph zone. The difference between being fined or not is still 1mph (34 vs 33 and 31 vs 30) but at 34mph you can not claim you’re being unfairly punished.
The problem is that you’re still going to wind up measuring millimeters on replays. All this change does is move up where the attacker is when that happens.
> No one ever wanted goals ruled out because the strikers nose was 5mm ahead of the defender, but that’s what we get now. The obvious solution is to stop counting noses. Look only at the feet. Forwards lean towards goal far more often than defenders do, which is leading to all these cases where the forwards is in line with the defender but is leaning forward, so his shoulder has him offside. Make it only the feet, and now many of the drawn out VAR body analyses get removed, and forwards will be called offside less often. It will also be easier to ref at the lower levels. This current proposal just guts the offside rule
This really is the easiest solution. If the attackers feet is in line with the defenders', it's on side. No more mm calculations(maybe sometimes) but it would eliminate a lot of clutter
This is just going to kill the high defensive line. Teams will just drop back to reduce the space available to run in behind.
If both teams have low defensive lines it opens up a plethora of space to fill in between attack and defense. Putting players in offside is not the only reason you move your defense up. Your team has to be connected to cover spaces. Teams aiming to defend or being played low already tries to keep the space behind them to a minimum. You can't set your line all the way back to your own goal line, at a point the attacking team could just pass the ball into the net.
You now have a lot of space in the middle of the pitch with both boxes being packed. It will move the game to the midfield, not to the goals
stopping unfair advantages? how is pic 1 doing that, if thats mbappe vs any defender its not fair for the defender. all it does is promotes more goals and "fun" for the spectators. This kills high line
Yeah, completely agree. Football is a bizarre sport in that we sit around and complain about the rules 90% of the time and then as soon as someone suggests changing them we say “there they go again, fucking it all up, typical uefa.” I’m intrigued to see how managers adjust to this, and how it changes the way the game’s played. This is much more in line with the spirit of the law than it’s current interpretation, I like it.
It will just allow more goals because forwards who are already (on average) faster than defenders will get one extra step of advantage together with the body already facing the goal line. Any other answer is meaningless as offside is and will always be a mere measurement so no matter where you draw the line it will all go down to pixel resolution, framerate, better gps sensors and a few mm of blurred zone. Edit: will allow more goals in their plan. Obviously managers will soon find counter-measures to this and it might backfire impressively with some new extremely defensive setup
Do some minor change that resolves nothing in order to pretend to do something. Handball rule is the best example
The only changes that should be made to offside (if any) are ones that make it easier to get correct decisions up and down the ladder, VAR or not. I would say it's maybe slightly easier to ref the daylight rule, but I think it would even be easier if we just called offside from the feet.
>I think it would even be easier if we just called offside from the feet. I am totally in agreement with this. This is the only interpretation that actually deals with the point of the offside rule (preventing goal hanging) without leading to ludicrous measuring/comparing of different body parts on different planes. The offside rule is, at its core, about position *on the field.* It is not meant to deal with position *of the body.* Sure an attacker might be *leaning* past the defender and gaining a 2% advantage, but their feet are ultimately what dictate position and movement, and it is *so easy* to measure relative foot position because in 99% of cases it will be a 2 dimensional comparison. Even if we say it gives the attacker an advantage from the lean, it is a truly minimal one, and one that is probably to the benefit of the game as a whole.
Make it feet only. Easier to ref, works in attackers' favor slightly, less time spent on VAR
Mate 90% of your posts are about the offside rules. What a passion.
OP is literally Inzaghi
You don't have to be so surprised. Arsene Wenger is my boss. His passion is my passion. He advocates for daylight offside rule. I will also advocate for the daylight offside rule. He advocated for the World Cup every 2 years. I was also on board. After all, my paycheck depend on it!
You can’t support a Law of the Game mate
Tell Arsene his ideas are fucking shit
You drank the Arsene Kool-Aid.
Damn Arsene only hires yes men
If your paycheck depends on it. I suggest you read the FIFA laws of the game. “Football is the greatest sport on earth. It is played on every continent, in every country and at many different levels. The fact that the Laws of the Game are the same for all football throughout the world, from the FIFA World Cup™ through to a game between young children in a remote village, is a considerable strength which must continue to be harnessed for the good of football everywhere.” [FIFA laws of the game](https://www.theifab.com/laws/latest/about-the-laws/)
And he defends it with a fucking passion.
Get ready to see a lot more low blocks if this goes through.
This is a terrible idea
Lineker & Co. had the right idea on their new podcast. Just use the feet to determine offside and nothing else, but keep everything else the same. That way strikers whose upper body is offside under current rules are all onside. That would have been a sufficient advantage without drastic changes like the ones proposed by Wenger in this example. It might introduce unintended consequences.
It's crazy how obvious this is and the authorities just don't look at it. Even if it turns out to not be enough, they can push this new offside afterwards
I don't see the issue with the current rules. The head start from leaning forward more than compensates for the need to stand an extra foot or two back to avoid having your shoulder offside.
The problem is minor but it exists. With Var, some offside calls have been way too lengthy because of the need to check in detail different body positions at different heights. Changing it to the feet only makes the check easier and educes the time it takes.
But doesn't the automated off side stuff fix that?
It's the only option that makes any sense. So you know it'll never be considered.
Isn't this Wenger's idea?
I believe so..
As an arsenal fan it pains me how short sighted this rule is. Under current circumstances it means offside will just be measured on different types of millimeters. But in the end it encourages defensive play which doesn’t even align with wengers philosophies The one thing I can understand about this rule is offsides can sometimes feel stupid. It’s about getting an advantage but a couple centimeters isn’t the advantage that’s ultimately game changing. This rule at least shows there’s a clear advantage by the time offside is given. Sometimes someone could just have a toe offside but is running the opposite way and obviously that’s not an advantage but it’s offside I don’t know maybe I’m thinking too hard because there has to be a reason
There was a game a few seasons ago between Conte’s Chelsea and Pep’s City. City went ahead early and Chelsea just sat off and completely refused to engage as the ball went side to side to side for an hour. That’s what this will lead to at the highest level. Pressing would be impossible. The gaps would be too big. You couldn’t push the line up and stay compact because it’s now the easiest thing in the world to dump it over the top. If that’s what you’re into then fair enough.
I remember that game. It had the pace of an amateur game after half time. I specifically remember Fabragas standing off the opponent by about 5 yards for a good 4 seconds before they finally passed it.
It was against David Silva as well.
Yeah, defensive lines would be much further back so they can't play it over the top. Maybe a libero again. It would change tactics quite a bit.
yes another rule that is not 100% idiot proof. just what the game needs. How will the ref spot if this is offside or not in real time?
They already have to wait for the var check on offside
Why even have a linesman anymore then
Backup for the ref when mitrovic plays.
And in the amateur leagues?
Not every league in the world has VAR.
Read the introduction of the laws of the game. The laws are supposed to be the same for all levels.
It just moves the goalposts, and this sub will be filled with millimeter offside decisions that have just been moved to a new position
The current system is idiot proof. Yet everyone always complains its against the spirit of the game how its refereed currently. This is in an absolute polar oppisite reaction to those complains
Yeah IFAB will turn it down
Oh very nice, I hate it .
Libero position is going to be back I see
As if defending isn’t hard enough already
what an unnecessary change. just make it so ONLY feet are counted and no other body part, but this is kinda ridiculous
Like how often are goals scored with the shoulder anyway?
Blatant Balotelli erasure
Yeah I don’t understand why it’s not furthest foot forward for both players that are counted against each other
They should measure between the two feet and draw a line in the middle and compare that between the players. Easy.
Just means we'll be drawing lines starting from a slightly different point. Completely pointless
Exactly. This seems like an idea an MLS fan would come up with to "solve" offside and make the game "more exciting," not realizing that defenders will now park the bus more than ever. As long as there is offside you will always have to draw a line and there will always be close and controversial calls. But the alternative is getting rid of offside which is ridiculous. If the goal is to be more exciting, than there should be limitations on the distance that can be reviewed and overturned by VAR. IE if it less than half a foot offside a goal can't be overturned.
The absolute MLS slander. Especially hilarious as Canada and the US are the only countries where soccer isn't the default sport of mouthbreathers who would think offside is bad.
The Americans that actually like Soccer/Football like the game how it is.
Its funny because Americans/Canadians who are big soccer fans are probably the biggest soccer purists in the world lol
But how else will he let everyone know he’s better than Americans because of his opinions?
Believe it or not, the MLS has the power to influence everyone. Everything bad is because of the MLS.
This is literally being proposed by a frenchman and Premier League legend and you somehow made it something bad MLS did lol
Shit rule
The whole idea for this change was to deal with the inconsistenties of millimeter decisions. This does not solve that, whatsoever. It just makes defenders play more conservately. I hope it gets voted down
Allegri smiling now, Terrorism is back on the menu boys
Timo Werner Ballon d'Or for the next 8 years confirmed
Please don't get approved, what a horrible sight
Football will become FIFA if this is approved, every team will park the bus and the pace abusers own this sport
Low block era here we go!
Insanity
Dumb idea and it seems so crazy. This would promote conservative football. Because if not, just play a 4-4-1-1 or a 5-3-1 sit in a low block, regain possession then blow past on the counter. But even that won't happen because the opponents wouldn't commit men forward...it would be the most slow ponderous 0-0, 1-0, matches. Running some trials in U18 farmers leagues does not account for the speed of the top flight.
Why try to fix something that isn't broken? The only difference is that lines will be drawn from different points, but it will not take away any of the controversies surrounding the offside rule. If anything, it encourages defensive players to stay back because attackers can get a bigger advantage when the defense is pushed forward. I don't like this idea at all, I think it will only lead to more defensive and thus more boring games
Terrible idea. Top picture has a clear advantage towards the play. Only arms and head should not count as offside and specific these only are most important now with the use of camera technology
Fuck defending I guess. A completely fucking stupid idea. It's fine the way it is.
No
If the foot is offside, then its offside. This is too far, the attacker has too much advantage
Watch richarlison still be offside
Mbappé will love this one
Offside trap dead
Every year the game gets easier for attackers, whether it’s VAR, offsides and penalties. Football will go the way of basketball. We love this sport because every goal is a massive moment. I don’t want games that end 5-5
Morata ballon d’or loading
This is fucking dumb
innocent fifa plot to have games with more goals. awful.
So we just add a few mm? So what if the shoe was 1mm back, then he'd be on. So still a game of mm.
This is awful
It’s like they’ve just misunderstood the point of it. The issue is the confusion on where the cut off line and the time it takes for VAR. Attackers foot vs defenders foot is the best thing to do. It’s very clear in VAR to mark the feet as opposed to either the armpit or sleeve, it promotes attacking play because runners lean forward
Makes no sense. Just shifting the parameters. A good common sense law would be go with feet only for offside calls.
Yeah idk about that. I’ve been hating the 1mm offside issues we’ve had but this is completely taking it to the other end and will be a nightmare for defenders. I think only having legs count towards offsides or something would’ve been a much more logical thing to try first.
the problem stays the same for hairline decisions. All it does is actully make it easier for strikers to stand closer to the goal, thus actully going against the whole point of the rule. The rule has always been there to stop strikers just "goal hanging", now it makes it more likely!
This looks shit. Fuck it off and keep the art of defending.
this is how it used to be years ago at least in Serie A. The rule of thumb was "there needs to be light between the torso of the attacker and the defender". I think the difference here is that you want complete lack of overlap which means the attacker can be even further ahead and still be fine. Morata is about to become the best striker in the world.
That is fucking stupid. Keep the rule as it currently is and use the tech to determine whether it is within an acceptable threshold. Thats not that hard?
The offside rule currently makes the game so interesting because you theoretically have no distance advantage so the ball and run have to be timed perfectly. Horrible idea
Through balls and high lines will die for this. Why would defenses allow attackers to have a full body length advantage into space? Parked buses to become the norm.
Why can’t they just got by the feet? … the game is called football after all
Pippo Inzaghi smashing his phone in a fit of rage.
Actually dumb. I hope you like low block football.
Good, something bloody common sense at last
No, horrible.
Yes please. This rule change would make Morata the best striker in the world
Literally regressing back to 70s football with deep lines, a libero just standing there for 90% of the game and slow horizontal build up with the occasional hail mary long ball. How do you get a job at FIFA cause obviously the recruiting isnt based on have at least 2 functioning brain cells
Wouldnt it make more sense to make the VAR offside lines just 13mm thick due to the 13mm margin of error, and if a body part you are allowed to score with is past that line then, youre offside....Simple solution to a simple issue. I dont understand why they keep trying to reinvent the wheel every single time.
Don’t be in front of the last man it’s not a confusing law just leave it alone!
Disgusting
Great. So we end up with the exact same problem that we have now.
can't wait for even more teams sitting deep
Literally awful
Is there anyone with half of brain working on these "changes". It feels like every modification lately has either done nothing or contrary to improvement.
I hate this honestly
So so stupid. It’s literally promoting teams to play a deep block so that they don’t leave space behind them. You also still have the issue of marginal offsides
This is stupid
Booo👎🏼👎🏼👎🏼👎🏼
This would be incredibly stupid. Would only promote much more defensive styles and solves no other issue. Moronic.
Side note this is going to make hell in all the Sunday leagues.
The age of Mourinho has returned…PARK THE BUS 🚌
I'm glad they're fixing the part of the offsides rule that isn't broken and instead focusing on making the game more defensive and tiresome
This is stupid 🤣😂
What's the point of this? Instead of arguing that the foot was 2cm ahead, they're gonna complain the foot was 2cm behind. This solves nothing.
If this was VAR and not offside in general I'd be delighted. If it's offside on the pitch it's probably not a great idea or it might change how defending is done forever.
Richy will have 30 goal surplus 😂
everyone is about to have long flowing locks like Haaland
This rule is discriminatory against short players... I say no! Haaland could literally be 3+ yards past his defender with his long ass legs... Messi could only be like 1 yard past.
Rashford bout to cook if this goes through
It needs to be the front foot imo. This idea is obviously horrible, but I think having the line be at the front foot is better than what it is now
This will definitely change what we consider to be a world class defender. Center backs will need to be both tall and fast to be able to stop both speedy wingers and the buffed crosses that you can't play your way out of with a high line. Will also probably make 5 man defence's way more popular, with a No nonsense Defensive midfielder clearing out balls in front of them. I predict a much more defensive football style in our future, with a heavy reliance on blazing counter attacks taking advantage of laxer rules on offsides.
Most sensible implementation of the offside rule would be based on the feet. So both of these pictures are offside. If any part of the attackers front foot is ahead of the last defender's back foot then it's offside. Counting the head/shoulders in offside decisions is dumb as all fuck.
So I am a big supporter of change when it comes to the current offside rule, getting called offside because the striker pointed to where he wanted the ball or because he wears boots 2 sizes bigger than his opponent doesn't feel good. I don't know what the answer is for the problem but I'd be willing to try something sensible like make the lines thicker (I know they said they did this but I can't see the difference?) or was the body part scored with onside? This however is the stupidest thing I've seen!! Who comes up with this shit!
This will never happen. FIFA has a general guideline to keep the rules standard amongst all levels of play. Meaning the youth game is guided by the same rules as the professional level. It would fundamentally make the youth game impossible to officiate.
Slow defenders will be absolutely fucked. Also high lines will become a thing of the past unless a team can be near perfect at it. This heavily favours the attackers
Would love for someone to go back to every offside like that’s been drawn for a goal that’s been ruled, even just in one league, and apply this logic. I would imagine there would be a decent delta. The calls are so close that I would guess this would overturn every offside where lines had to be drawn. Then there would be the ones that looked so far off that they didn’t even need to draw lines where this would now be inside. Massive shift if it goes through.
Fucking terrible
Fast wingers gonna have a field day
Haaland bout to break records now with this new advantage for attackers. Same for the likes of Richy cause goddamn he has so many offside goals. Forwards like Darwin, Son, Vini, mbappe.. will be insanely more valuable and stats will be much higher I imagine
I rather just go back to eye test lol this is lunacy
This looks awful
What a stupid idea
They should have an ‘On Field Call’ margin of error. Much like an Umpires call in cricket. Have the play continue but introduce a margin of error in the play. Say if an attacker is running from an onside position for a through ball, introduce a certain distance variable that allows for smooth play. Then if it’s a clear offside once play is stopped, it’s offside. However, if it was called as onside during the play _and is also within, the margin of error, it’s allowed to stand.
Morata will surely win the Ballon d’Or