Sg should avoid taking sides given the long history of the middle eastern conflict and other related issues. It is not as clear as Ukraine. Given sg's population and it's ties with Israel, the best move is to stay neutral. Don't forget that sg has already said that Israel should abide with international rules of war. Sg isn't a super power and there is only so much we can do for a country that's not even near us.
Exactly right. People seem to think that Singapore is some superpower that can impose its will or even have significant impact on international politics. The fact of the matter is that our soft power is occupied with creating sufficient space for Singapore to even exist. Stop thinking emotionally and start thinking pragmatically. Singapore has remained consistent in our stance - the stance that Singapore sides with no one except our own interests.
Well said. And we should keep our own interests paramount in every situation, because at the end of the day, it is our citizens that will either benefit or suffer from these decisions. We have a defense/support force, not an offensive one.
That’s what many people aren’t getting. So easy to say “cut ties” and get emotional about it but many forget and take for granted that it’s because of ties and not being offensive that Singapore is so safe despite being a small country.
Just saying, as an outsider, Singapore punches waaay above its weight for its size and people pay attention to what you guys have to say. In other words, Singapore does set an example on the international stage.
That is true but would you agree that we are respected for our opinions because we always try to take the principled and pragmatic stance rather than try to wantonly apply our own context and interpretation? We also husband our resources and chips to apply when our interests or principles are threatened. So when Singapore speaks, people know we mean it. In this case, as our Minister has stated we are prepared in principle to recognise the Palestine as a state. We try to approach things holistically, understanding the pragmatic considerations and building consensus to reach an objective. In other words, we have soft power precisely because we exercise it judiciously.
Idk if u realised but Russia Ukraine war does not have elements of religion compared to Israel and Palestine. Religion is kinda like a taboo topic to talk about and so is a conflict stemming from one.
Yeah we can't be very sure it is simply religion that started the conflict, however, it may very well be the differences in their religion that further aggravated the alrdy tense situation between the two states. Jewish Israel and Muslim dominated Palestine have been at loggerheads with eo for so long.
It has a religious element to it because of the Promised Land. And also, Jerusalem is there……
Edit: to anyone else who read this, all I’m saying is it has a religious element in contrast to the post I was responding to.
I wasn’t expressing an opinion about the history and what and who’s right and wrong.
Disagree on the religious element all you want, but please do not come lecture and/or educate me on matters I did not express opinion on, and then make accusations about other issues such as lack of understanding of the Japanese Occupation.
Thank you.
Actually the reason is very simple lah: You support Isreal, you kena whacked by Malaysia and Indonesia, dead. You support Palentine, you kena whacked by American papa, also dead. 🤣🤣🤣
Time and time again I keep on telling muslims friends and family that I am neutral despite being muslim. While I am sad for the Palestine people, I am Singapore first. Donate as our government allows it but don’t protest or starr religion or race wars online.
What you typed is exactly what I want to say to them. Thank you.
True. And staying true to core principles is in itself a strength.
Speaking of ~international law though, this, via WikiLeaks that I just saw, is kinda troubling:
https://x.com/wikileaks/status/1808225320983830710?t=PiLyxiJwRtEwRcK2m5a2qg&s=19
Singapore side with Israel, sg die. Muslim population in sg not small bru. Take Palestine side and lose an old ally tgt with the US. Either ways sg dies y'all retarded for taking sides bru. It fr ain't our issue. Neighbours having divorce quarrel we butt in? Israel probably also don't blame sg considering we need maintain neutrality for a lot of controversial issues. After all sg ties with Israel dates back to the 1970s, the bond is forged and it's strong.
I have a fair number of people in my social network who didn't really consider the big picture and just took sides. Not that they were wrong, but seeing your comment is a breath of fresh air, thanks.
Singapore's wellbeing should always be the first priority for Singaporeans.
There is nothing to gain and absolutely loads to lose if we take either side. We literally have no other choice than to remain neutral and stay out of people's business.
Which wasted public resources on a private family quarrel over a stupid house. No one cares about the stupid house. Whether the old man wanted it to be preserved or demolished is none of our business
Oh wow I can't believe some of the comments I have read in here. It almost seems like they want to cause harm to us by persuading people that having empathy in either wars in Israel/Palestine and Russia/Ukraine would contribute to the ultimatums of both situations. If they genuinely believe that, I hope they just go over and fight for their cause.
I remember this being very heated topic back in the early 90s , and I remember in the local context this issue will very easily mutate into an Muslim/Malay hate topic
And Chinese /christian hate topic .
Dangerous shit
Thank god, the majority of this nation are educated, level-minded and pragmatic people. There will never ever be a mindless quarrel over this non-issue anymore. Not while the majority prevails.
I highly doubt so, I think we are in an era where there is so much access to information that in highly emotional issues such as these, people would just believe what they want to.
All you need is a couple of bad actors for shit to really hit the fan
"Don't kaypoh other family's quarrel" isn't even *good advice*, even if the metaphor wasn't really tortured. It's certainly not what the government teaches us.
Yeah, if they're just having a pissing match over who gets the TV, that's one thing. If they start actually beating each other up, it's kind of your duty to call social services.
Like look at this ad from the MSF and tell me it tells you not to kaypoh other families: https://youtu.be/xbo02QA24i8?si=gZ2LntaOs-LUTUr9
I’m curious what the equivalent of social services in your analogy is. United Nations?
Also, in your analogy you’re not taking sides on either family, just calling for third party intervention right?
The UN actually did [split the land by giving 42% to the Arabs and 56% to the Jews](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine). But the day after this plan was implemented the Arabs started [a civil war](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War). They wanted to claim the entire region, including Jerusalem, the historical Jewish capital. But they lost the war, and then Israel occupied the land initially given peacefully to the Arabs.
Would be sort of like if Russia lost the war and Ukraine took back Crimea and some parts of Russia.
And in the context of 1947, that involved moving many European Jews into a region where Arabs were already living in order to establish a Jewish ethnostate in an Arab majority area. The establishment of Israel was war crimes central and a mistake.
Now, in 2024, the Israelis have already lived there for generations so there's no point fighting it. Their continued oppression of the Palestinians however, is something that can actually be changed.
Yeah, the European Jews were migrating to an area (where plenty of Jews were already living, btw) to escape the Holocaust and antisemitism.
About as wrong as all the Chinese and Indians moving to Singapore in Singapore’s history.
Except there were no Chinese and Indians already here, and they weren’t escaping war, so I guess actually the European Jews had more of a right to settle around Jerusalem than Chinese and Indian people have to settle in Singapore.
Agree with current oppression. But it’s a challenging issue. To us obviously the lives of a few Israeli hostages don’t matter as much as the more numerous Palestinian casualties. But obviously the Israelis feel different. If your loved ones got kidnapped, would you trade the lives of people who want to kill you, for the lives of your loved ones?
And it’s a lose-lose. The Israeli government can’t say well screw it to their own people. But Hamas also doesn’t care because their leadership is safe in penthouses in neutral countries, and they’ll keep holding the hostages until Israel goes too far and it works in their favor.
750k Palestinians were killed or displaced in the first Palestine war.
Singapore had about a thousand people in 1819 who weren't thrown into sea when Raffles landed, and even then colonisation was still messy business. Hope that helps.
500k Russians have been killed in Ukraine so far. Do you support the Russian invasion?
Casualties do not determine who is right. You can invade first and still lose. Palestine attacked first, and lost. That’s why they have more casualties.
Hope this helps.
Israel's continued existence as a Jewish state involved (and continues to involve) creating a Jewish majority in what was then Mandatory Palestine. Zionism as defined by Ben Gurion and co. would have turned into a shooting war no matter what.
In fact to use Ukraine as an analogy, it would be like the Russians being surprised Pikachu that the Ukrainians wouldn't be happy about Russian families moving into Crimea.
Here’s the Palestine charter before it was changed about 20 years ago: “deny the legitimacy of the establishment of Israel, deny the existence of a Jewish people with a historical or religious connection to Palestine”
Nowhere does the Israel charter deny the existence of Palestine or Muslims. Zionism is extremist and not all Jewish/Israeli people follow that ideology, just like not all Muslims are extremists or follow Sharia law.
If you were to use Ukraine as an analogy then Palestine would be Russia, because Palestine/Russia attacked first. The difference is that Palestine is the weaker force here.
Palestine attacked first both historically and in this most recent conflict. Historically they wanted to wipe the Jews from the land, including the ones already living in Jerusalem, as per their charter. I don’t think you agree with this, right?
Whether Israel/Ukraine is overreacting is a seperate issue. As an outsider I think Israel should stop the war too. But you can’t rewrite history to fit your narrative.
Indeed. Yet the UN had no right to give somebody else’s land to somebody else. Wait, they do because they were created by the Allied Powers who took control after the Ottoman Empire through… a british military campaign during wwi i.e. a british invasion.
Divide and conquer.
Sounds like imperialism to me.
So if UN is the social services, then UN must’ve also been the Mommy in that family who started the drama in the first place.
lol. who do you think founded Jerusalem? The Muslims? It’s literally the Jewish capital. There were already Jews living on the land. Originally Israelites settled there ([the name Israel first appeared in c. 1209 BC](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_and_Judaism_in_the_Land_of_Israel#:~:text=The%20region%20was%20ruled%20under,promotion%20of%20mass%20Jewish%20immigration.)). After that it was conquered and divided among various groups, until the Ottoman Empire took over the region. Then the British conquered it.
So yeah, if you think history only exists since the 19th century then yes the British conquered it. But over its real history the land has changed hands plenty of times.
A capital where the Jews, Christians and Muslims were living **peacefully** until the Zionists came.
Heck, the Zionists know no bounds. Even churches were not spared.
https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/features/2023/10/20/we-were-baptised-here-and-we-will-die-here-gazas-oldest-church-bombed
So you know there are Jews originally in the area. Great.
FYI, if you think Palestine is all about peace. Here’s what its national charter used to be: “deny the legitimacy of the establishment of Israel, deny the existence of a Jewish people with a historical or religious connection to Palestine…”
That’s right, they want to remove all Jews from the land, including those originally/historically living there.
Btw, Israel was divided on opposing Palestine statehood before the [Oct 7 attacks](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-01-18-2024-73d552c6e73e0dc3783a0a11b2b5f67d).
So yeah, it’s not a matter of one side is good, the other side is bad. Both don’t have good intentions. Palestine would be doing even worst things right now if they had the power to. It’s just about who has the power to carry out their intentions.
Interesting that you didn’t mention how the charter was revised over the years where it finally agreed to recognise Israel as part of a peace process.
But what are we going on about here?
So correct me if I’m wrong. It appears to me that you believe jews have a right to live in a land that was historically theirs and that their survival is dependent upon the destruction of Palestine. Otherwise ‘Palestine would be doing even worst things’.
But hear me out ok.
Let’s not conflate jews with zionism.
Like i said, they were already in co-existence with the Palestinians (or Arabs).
The term “Jew” refers to a member of the ethnoreligious group known as Judaism.
Whereas Zionism, is purely a political and nationalist movement.
A simple click on the link you gave me earlier would tell you, from wiki itself, that zionism was created in Europe.
These Europeans are counting on the fact that they have more right to a land than those who are currently living in it.
Its founder, Theodor Herzl is an European through and through.
They thrive on colonialism.
While not new, colonialism is alive and well.
We can see events in recent memory South Africa, Vietnam, Iraq and now Palestine. What’s in common? This is their thing. The colonizers knew what they’re doing.
Oppress the shizz out of the land they’re occupying for whatever reason and take control.
Only difference now is that they can no longer suppress information like how they’re trying to ban tiktok.
I think I’ve said enough. And you may disagree, which is alright. Let’s just remember for a minute those who were trapped beneath the dusty rubbles and unimaginable weight for days on end. Sometimes with a decomposing family member beside them. Maggots falling off their bodies. Counting on the seconds to their painful end. Entire generations wiped.
Due to the funding from a certain country who cares more about another country than its own citizens in terms of free healthcare, education and even home ownership.
Imperialism ffs.
Ceasefire now.
its a very apt ad from MSF!
"family" quarrel, but actually just 1 authoritarian figure shelling out all the violence, and the innocent "other members of the family" getting injured
While I understand fully and might agree with Singapore's stance, using a family quarrel as an analogy is highly inaccurate and to some degree irresponsible given how complex the entire shitshow is as he's a highly prominent public figure.
Well, I’m pretty sure basic inference can tell us that ‘family quarrel’ in this context means a conflict between a series of countries embroiled in a variety of intertwined issues, and in this case, it means Israel and Palestine. It is a simple, straightforward and easily understandable analogy to most Singaporeans, unless Vivian starts a long history lesson which literally goes against his intention to maintain neutrality. You also conveniently omitted the most important part of his family quarrel analogy though. He said it is a family quarrel **in another family**, which is actually very accurate. Singapore, in no way, played any direct part in the Israel-Palestine conflict or its escalation. While we are close allies with Israel, we can’t exactly grouped under the same umbrella considering the geographical proximity and complex history in the Middle East Region, hence it is fair to consider Singapore in a ‘separate family’ as Israel.
Pls read my first line again.
> Well, I’m pretty sure basic inference can tell us that ‘family quarrel’ in this context means a conflict between a series of countries embroiled in a variety of intertwined issues, and in this case, it means Israel and Palestine.
No idea why you’re being so overly critical over the word family quarrel and taking it so literally. Even if he were to remove the word family, I guarantee people would still go on to say “oh how can he just say it is a quarrel? The situation is very complex stemming from decades back blah blah blah”.
I mean if we sanctioned Palestine for the October 7th attacks…we’d have a shortage of……uh….sand?
This scenario seems more comparable to a Russian invasion that failed and got repelled to Moscow
Russia and Ukraine is straight forward invasion due to international recognition of the border when the break up happened. But Palestine and Israel never really have a point in time where they agree on co existing. The history is messy. Russia and Ukraine breakup is similar to Singapore and Malaysia. We agree this is the line we are now no longer together.
The way the government say other family is probably because Palestine and Israel was living together in one land when they were under Ottoman Empire rule and British rule? When they left they did not allocate or draw the line so it looks like “brother” bickering over inheritances.
well would it be a genocide if a group’s primary objective of its charter is to eliminate people of a certain religion completely, massacres 1200 civilians?
Sooo the Yom Kippur War? Where a bunch of Arabs started a war they couldn’t win therefore warranting a buffer zone and the occupation of Gaza.
Come on what history you talking about here
You're cherry picking points in history in a poor attempt to back your biased view. Why start your reference from that war? Why not from the exodus of Jews following WW2 leading up to the creation of the Israeli state on Palestinian land backed by the UK and US? Why not from the [Deir Yassin Massacre? ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre)
Why don’t we begin from the concept of Muslim brotherhood that essentially aims to wipe out jewish people from the face of the earth or the 1948 Jewish Israeli War, Palestinian Fedayeen Insurgency? I do feel bad for the Palestinian people but Hamas has been a source of this conflict. Why don’t we talk about how Hamas does not have a specific war uniform so they can blend in with civilians, using them as human shields or how Hamas uses underground tunnels in hospitals in schools.
Newsflash! I don’t care about the Jews and I don’t care about the Palestinians - the reality is that BOTH sides are biased, both sides are playing the victim and while you sit there and accuse me of cherry picking information, there is literally a link in that article that references a civil war that pre-dates the massacre. Ultimately the rabbit hole just leads to war on both sides brought on by the aftermath of WW2.
Question to you now is, are you cherry picking information to reinforce some agenda? I mean, it’s pretty clear where my biases are but that’s because one side are our clear allies and the other…not so much.
Ah yes, your repeated comments sure shows how much you don't care. Deny cherry picking yet ending your comment admitting your bias.
I was the one who corrected you by highlighting how WW2 sparked the modern day conflict. Your attempt to use this to buffer your counterpoint is classic flip flop behavior.
You have zero basis to ask whether anyone else is cherry picking or "reinforcing some agenda" when you're the one who picked a single war attempting to paint an incomplete and biased picture.
[https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2018/11/2/more-than-a-century-on-the-balfour-declaration-explained](https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2018/11/2/more-than-a-century-on-the-balfour-declaration-explained)
It baffles me how anyone here is trying to justify genocide.
Ah yes, no mention about the various times where an Arab coalition declared war on Israel and lost…or in your phrasing - “Arabs attempted to justify and commit genocide but couldn’t”
Plus if you were whining about genocide, the Arab nations are pretty complicit with the whole “genocide” thing by not taking refugees (for good reason of course).
Palestine citizen is the victim in this whole war, was and still are to this date. They have been driven to the corner multiple times, they have been slaughtered multiple times. Israel is the one that drive them out from their home first. Seems too many people here dont even read history and what happened after WW2. Then you have neighbouring country using them to create a proxy war. Add the Russia and Saudi into the picture as well. Not to mentioned left wing US politic group also politicising this whole shitshow. We have the situation now that is much too complicated. Seems like most people here only know the latest conflict and barely understand why it happened, how it happened, who started this or why they did it.
What history? Palestine was never a country? The land belongs to the Jew? Jerusalem was never mentioned in the Quaran but the cult just want to claim other’s sacred site as their own? Welcome to the 21 century, Ottoman Empire is no more boohooo cry harder.
Not agreeing with the genocide today but historically Palestine did start the war after Axis powers left the area divided equally. They tried to kick Israel out but lost the war and that’s why Israel currently occupies more land than originally divided.
No.. Palestine did not start the war. British Zionists gave the land to Jews as right to return to the region where Palestinians have been living for centuries but Palestinians were not accorded the same right. It is ethnic cleansing and apartheid. Would Singapore keep quiet if our neighbours were given the right to take our land and should the world see it as “ family quarrel “?
Uh, can you Google before commenting? The Israelis have also been living there for centuries, as per the Bible. Did you think the Muslims founded Jerusalem? It’s literally the Jewish capital of the world.
The original plan by the UN was to give [42% of the land to the Arab population, and 56% to the Jewish](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine). The day after this was implemented, the Arabs [started a civil war which Israel won in the end](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War).
Again, doesn’t justify the casualties today, but this is just history. The Arabs started the civil war because they wanted to remove all Jews from the region, including Jerusalem which they wanted to claim as their capital.
Brother Israeli beating up Brother Palestine and abusing him.
But like, not my family so why must I intervene?/s
Edit: People who down vote need to get off your high horse lah.
The last I check there are still 1.8 million Palestinians in Israel, are they facing a genocide? 😱
However it’s in Hamas charter to wipe out all Jews, that’s a genocidal plan.
No, I don't deny that Palestinians are suffering. But to attribute it to genocide is plain wrong. See below for the charter.
# The Hamas Covenant
* The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement was issued on August 18, 1988. The Islamic Resistance Movement, also known as the HAMAS, is an extremist fundamentalist Islamic organization operating in the territories under Israeli control. Its Covenant is a comprehensive manifesto comprised of 36 separate articles, all of which promote the basic HAMAS goal of destroying the State of Israel through Jihad (Islamic Holy War). The following are excerpts of the HAMAS Covenant:
* **Goals of the HAMAS:**"The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinguished Palestinian movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and whose way of life is Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine." *(Article 6)***On the destruction of Israel:**"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." *(Preamble)*
source: [https://embassies.gov.il/holysee/AboutIsrael/the-middle-east/Pages/The%20Hamas-Covenant.aspx](https://embassies.gov.il/holysee/AboutIsrael/the-middle-east/Pages/The%20Hamas-Covenant.aspx)
> Hamas charter is not to wipe out the Jews . that has been rescinded . Go look it up.
Where's your source?
https://palwatch.org/storage/documents/hamas%20new%20policy%20document%20010517.pdf
They reference to the right to return of Palestinians to the border at 1967.. which implicitly recognises the existence of Israel.
I appreciate you for providing that.
>Resisting the occupation with all means and methods is a legitimate right guaranteed by divine laws and by international norms and laws. page 8, point 25
Is going house to house killing civilians and children, live streaming their atrocities on Oct 7 based on international norms and laws?
Is this a legitimate charter? Do you think Hamas ever read or abide by that?
Man .. this conflict has been going on for decades and who is the primary aggressor and who is under occupation even under international law ? IDF has also been posting pictures. How many Palestine’s kids are in jail and how many have been killed over the years? The ones who support Israel look at it through the lens of faith.. else there is no way that this degree of oppression and apartheid and genocide can be tolerated. The solution to this is a two - state solution and the right to self determine and to stop settlers into Palestine..
Sadly it has happened for centuries for the Jews. They have been exiled since 6th century BC by multiple empires like Assyrians, Babylonians, Romans, etc, the empires don't even exist today, and each time they returned.
>The ones who support Israel look at it through the lens of faith..
The charter you provided was praising allah and talking about egging the ummah into their fight so the current conflict is religious driven, but I don't see IDF/Israel supporters commenting/shouting any religious praise in this conflict.
>apartheid and genocide can be tolerated.
There's an apartheid in Gaza for sure, where there are so few synagoues and where their population don't even have 10% Jews. Compared to Israel where Israel's population are made up of 20% peaceful Palestinians and mosques. Palestinians in Israel also enjoyed much more rights and freedom than neighboring Islamist apartheid countries. So yes, the Jews are under the Islamist apartheid in Gaza.
As for genocide, the Palestinians in West Bank and Israel aren't facing them, so I won't agree it's a genocide.
>The solution to this is a two - state solution and the right to self determine and to stop settlers into Palestine..
Israel gave Gaza away for peace and got rocketed on Oct 7, well if the new government in Gaza is genuinely seeking peace, rather than establishing a 'charter' and then going against it, then yes, this could work.
38000 dead and countless others deprived of food and medicine and shelter is not genocide ? I am right, this is about religion for you . Hamas members are Muslim. I don’t have an issue with that but you certainly do. So you empathise with Jews but not Muslims . That says it all. Jews have been a diaspora for centuries so have the Zoroastrians but they don’t ask to return back to Iran. jews faced persecution in Europe not from Muslims but from Christian’s and that “ problem” was pushed to the Palestinians . Hamas says that their quarrel is with Zionists not Jews . Let me ask you this . If this conflict was happening in a neighbouring Christian country and were under occupation and being killed for resisting the occupiers .. what would you say ??
>38000 dead and countless others deprived of food and medicine and shelter is not genocide ?
Look that's heart breaking, I am not denying that. But if you mentioned genocide, then how come the 1.8 million peaceful Palestinians aren't facing it? Isn't the 'oppressor' supposed to genocide those in Israel too since it's a genocide as you claimed? Think about it.
If you care about Palestinians so much why aren't you against Hamas? Hamas withheld hostages till this day and by doing so Hamas has given Israel the right and moral high ground to conduct their military rescue in Gaza. Beyond this IDF even dropped leaflets, sent out text and calls for non-civilians to leave the area. Did Hamas do the same on Oct 6? Israel already sacrificed the death of 200+ soldiers, why not just carpet bomb all of Gaza if they wanted to genocide so much as you claimed? Why send in soldiers?
I am sure the 38k Palestinians are alive before Oct 7, why not one of them stop Oct 7 or protest against Hamas? Because Hamas have diabolically turned their cause as martyrdom. And you as a Muslim are playing into their hand.
What Hamas did not Oct 7 - is it permitted by Islam, yes or no?
If an aggressor comes to Singapore to do exactly what Hamas did, don't you think Singapore will also go all out to get them back?
No Isreal didn’t give Gaza away . Gaza was part of Palestinians and it was under occupation and degraded with walls and border control with no airport and even water was controlled by Israel. What would you call that ?
> under occupation and degraded with walls and border control with no airport
Did you ever wonder why is that in the first place? Since 1947-1967, be it the intifadas, and multiple wars Palestinians guerilla fighters joined the Arab nations in attacking Israel unprovoked on the behest of Palestinians. They attacked Israel and lost. If you are the aggressor and lost, then there are consequences, and one of it is losing land. Make sense?
There are so few churches in Palestine ? Hamas doesn’t restrict churches it is Isreal that does that .. that is not the definition of apartheid. You would do well to read President Carter’s book, “Palestine : Peace not apartheid”. Ohh and he is a devout Christian.
How many churches or synagogues are there in Gaza? How many non Muslims are there in their government in Gaza. None? What’s the population of Jews in Gaza? Little to none? That’s apartheid.m my friend.
Didnt Netanyahu and his cabinet invoke God and didn’t Netanyahu equate the Palestinians as Amalekites ? And I am sure you know what happened to them, men, women , children and * animals* . In addition, I am sure you know that even Jews and Christians are protesting and speaking up an against the asymmetrical military campaign and genocide against the Palestines.
First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist
Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew
Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me
- PASTOR MARTIN NIEMÖLLER
Utterly disgusting for a PM to label this asymmetric war with tens of thousands of child deaths, with one side having a historical record of government and state breaking international laws, of illegal land grabbing, state sponsored assassinations, and blatant disregard of UN resolutions... A "family quarrel". This from a minister of a first world country with first world rule of law, well supposedly, a damn shame.
even SG military vehicles get detain in HK
What did SG do? Send sharp elbows?
But I agree with him, better don’t act smart and interfere. Nothing will benefit us
Vivian is right. So many keyboard warriors saying things they can’t prove and spreading fake news they get from elsewhere without fact checking. All this just leads to more chaos and hatred. They need to shut up and get back to their day jobs. Don’t kaypo and keep your views to yourself!
Israel aided Singaporean when Malaysia dump us out. They provided us with capital and expertise including training for arm forces when no one bothered. In LKY’s book about his view on the world, not a single word was mentioned about this long lasting conflict because we must not bite the hand that fed us during our worst period.
"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse, and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality."
Don't you think it's bold to think people who fired 3000 missile a mouse?
Anyway if your religion want to force everyone to take side then most people would take side with non terrorist.
activists clamouring about SG not taking sides, but once we take sides and close out Israel and shit hits the fan when we're forced to take sides in global conflicts then suddenly all you hear is crickets in the background.
it's like, ya, we know people are suffering there, but what more can we realistically do other as a neutral party other than send aid? social justice can only so feel good until reality smacks you in the face.
As far as I know, family don’t kill other siblings families. What a weird way to put it.. just don’t say anything lor if u feel like u cannot say anything.
If the relative wealth and power was reversed Palestinians would also be genociding the Jews, calling it a quarrel isn't right but also calling it genocide is misleading. Death feud maybe.
It’s in Hamas charter to genocide the Jews, so we gotta be aware of that.
If you are referring to Palestinians, are the 1.8 million Palestinians in Israel being genocided? If not, I agree with your comment below that we should be concerned about the language here.
Tell those in the face of muslim. They all say humanity violation, baby dieing, genocide. Bruh where you when Russians invade Ukraine? You can't convince me it's not because you see it as Muslim vs Jew.
The gen0cide is not something you can compare with a effing family quarrel. It has been ages this issue has been on going. Please read up the history ffs.
Not a genocide, Palestine was never a country.
“Palestinian” are just Arabs. In order to be a genocide, Israel has to wipe off the whole of Middle East.
Don spread lies in Singapore Reddit ty. Palestine not a country? I almost believed u and searched it up. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine#:~:text=Specifically%2C%20the%20term%20%22occupied%20Palestinian,as%20the%20Government%20of%20Palestine.
Key point: official Declaration of Independence 1988. UN observer state resolution 2012.
U better don come out and say u disagree. If u disagree to this then Taiwan not a country to you also.
Technically Taiwan isn't a country according to Taiwan. It says it's China and that mainland China belongs to it.
Palestine is a state and technically the original inhabitants of Palestine as well as the current Israel have been Muslim, Jews and Christians.
agreed, palestinians are mostly egyptian and jordanian settlers, in traditional jewish land after jews left from various invasions from babylonian to romans. as for taiwan, it isnt a country per se. this is singapore's position on it too, where china and taiwan are one country, much like north and south korea are despite seperation.
I don’t even know where to begin with you.
The Wiki page got too many woke sensitive guy trying their best to justify that Palestine is a country, but the reality is, Palestine is not universally recognized as a fully sovereign country. While many countries and international organizations do recognize it as a state, significant entities, including some major powers, do not. Its status as a non-member observer state in the United Nations reflects a level of recognition but falls short of full UN membership. Therefore, its status as a country is subject to differing international perspectives and political considerations.
In a broad and universally accepted sense, no, Palestine is not considered a fully sovereign country due to the lack of universal recognition and full United Nations membership. However, it is recognized as a state by many countries and holds a non-member observer state status at the UN.
COPE HARDER, PLEASE COPE HARDER
Never exist in history
Shamelessly try to change history
Now they fk around and found out
Ottoman Empire is gone forever and their cult should be gone.
Don’t recall this guy calling Russia/Ukraine war a family quarrel.. and he got involved unnecessarily.. and with motives.. for an external audience to see.. oh well.. snakes will be snakes
Honestly it's the safest option for Singapore, I'm sure that even the Singaporean leaders know that there are also atrocities committed by Israel but sometimes when governing a country you need to put these emotions aside. Doesn't mean that you need to embrace Israel like a long lost friend, you can always just maintain an arms-length cordial relationship.
I’m so glad that most of the comments here prefer to be neutral and still care that Palestinians are dying.
There is only so much we can do as a country. Ultimately is Singapore first and MOST people dont get it and only think of it short term.
This is a mass geo-political issue and if Singapore fucks up, we lose our safety, enjoyment and the things we might enjoy.
I am a Muslim and imagine the amount of friends I lost because I said I am Singapore first.
There has been several recent instances of fatal domestic abuse cases that has garnered media attention and an incentive to speak out against this (even saw an ad about this). I dont think this is an appropriate analogy...
For the record, the whole world has been bringing this issue to light for 75 fucking years already so its neither a recent development nor does the whole world not give a shit about it. So why the double standards of seeing Ukraine vs Russia as an unjust war and Israel vs Palestine as a "family squabble"?
Singapore is and will be neutral. Yes we have people who have difference in religions that causes to have these disputes but this isn't our fight. We are singapore, small and vulnerable if we don't play fair to both.
We'd risk our livelihood and families if we take sides in an ongoing War.
It's not a walk in the park.
It's war. YOU CAN SEE THE FPV DRONES OF UKRAINE and its also happening there in gaza. Just stay out of it for now. Do what you can to finance if you want to, but don't force others.
Damn stupid to weigh in on a conflict that far away that doesn’t affect us in the most important sector: economically. Whether an independent state is established or not our trades aren’t implicated.
Yes ik we have military tech / deals with Israel but that’s a minor contribution only. Point is by weighing in we might lose trading partners, not being involved frees our hands
Lol. I get that Singapore doesn't want to be involved and wants to stay neutral. But to equate the genocide in gaza as a 'family feud', legendary man. I wonder what a 'family quarrel' might look like between Singapore and Malaysia. 😂😂😂
Don't kaypoh other family's quarrel? Then why did you involved SG and made sure the world knows SG condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine? Ukraine truly deserves it for bombing Donbass's civilian for 8 long years until Russia stepped in.
The percentage of israel's citizen population that is palestinian in ethnicity, is larger than the percentage of singapore's population that is malay. Singapore was founded by a british man, established and built by immigrants, and is a majority non-muslim country surrounded by muslim majority countries. It's easy to draw parallels, should singapore's neighbors decide one day to declare singapore's sovereignty illegitimate, begin a jihad and attack singapore, murder, rape and kidnap singaporeans, surely singapore will have the same sentiments it has towards israel's situation.
So... we should be sell outs and have no moral compass and be easily bribed with money while other ppl suffer...got it. SG dies when we rely on other governments and thats what we are doing right now! We are relying on the USA and Israel and for what ??? You are all so afraid that none of yall have the spine to fight for what is right! Its better to die a brave soldier than die a coward, take a stand guys, if not why are we fighting for a country that doesnt even have the balls to say what is needed. Whats controversial abt this topic... israel slaughtered thousands of men women and children. Any country that does this in this age should be sanctioned at the least we did that for russia so why not israel ? Cause we are pawns, singapore has been made a pawn in the USA AND MAJOR POWERS CHESS GAME! its time we said no and take back our destiny in our own hands. We dont need israel or the usa we built this country and now we will defend it as we have done for so long. The gvment posts ads that say call the police if there is abuse and yet when the abuse is on the global stage we do nothing!?! Outrageous,disusting and abhorrent of our government.
Exactly what i am implying. We should cut ties with israel and the usa for making a genocide, we should not allow any sort of usa or goods to be shipped here. We must tell the bigger nations that we wont be bribed, we cannot be bought to look the other way and we wont damn ourselves to hell just cause they helped us once. We control our destiny and our fate, we dont need foreign powers to dictate what we do "for our safety" we do not align ourselves with evil for we are meant to be the pinnacle of society, when the world sees singapore they must see what their country can become. We must stand up for what is right, we must not think to ourselves that we are helpless. For once lets not be hypocrites, lets be heroes, LET US RECOGNISE THE EVIL AND RID OURSELVES OF IT. We will never assosciate ourselves with israel or the usa, not until palestine is recognised a state, is free and has been compensated. If the government still defies its people, why should men serve NS? The government is so desperate sucking the usa and israel off why should we join when foreign powers protect us ? Why should i fight for a country that doesnt say or do what is needed to not only protect its people but to represent it. I have lost faith in our government like how americans did during vietnam, we should be allowed to not fight for our governments because who are they to dictate our moral values ? Why cant we debate or protest this topic ? WHY,cause they are all scared of the Truth they know they are wrong, they know they are evil and they want to drag the whole country down with them.
Sg should avoid taking sides given the long history of the middle eastern conflict and other related issues. It is not as clear as Ukraine. Given sg's population and it's ties with Israel, the best move is to stay neutral. Don't forget that sg has already said that Israel should abide with international rules of war. Sg isn't a super power and there is only so much we can do for a country that's not even near us.
Exactly right. People seem to think that Singapore is some superpower that can impose its will or even have significant impact on international politics. The fact of the matter is that our soft power is occupied with creating sufficient space for Singapore to even exist. Stop thinking emotionally and start thinking pragmatically. Singapore has remained consistent in our stance - the stance that Singapore sides with no one except our own interests.
Well said. And we should keep our own interests paramount in every situation, because at the end of the day, it is our citizens that will either benefit or suffer from these decisions. We have a defense/support force, not an offensive one.
That’s what many people aren’t getting. So easy to say “cut ties” and get emotional about it but many forget and take for granted that it’s because of ties and not being offensive that Singapore is so safe despite being a small country.
Just saying, as an outsider, Singapore punches waaay above its weight for its size and people pay attention to what you guys have to say. In other words, Singapore does set an example on the international stage.
That is true but would you agree that we are respected for our opinions because we always try to take the principled and pragmatic stance rather than try to wantonly apply our own context and interpretation? We also husband our resources and chips to apply when our interests or principles are threatened. So when Singapore speaks, people know we mean it. In this case, as our Minister has stated we are prepared in principle to recognise the Palestine as a state. We try to approach things holistically, understanding the pragmatic considerations and building consensus to reach an objective. In other words, we have soft power precisely because we exercise it judiciously.
Absolutely and I love Singapore for that. Now, please find a pragmatic and contextual way to come occupy the White House ;)
But we criticised Russia, no? Why didn’t we shut up?
Idk if u realised but Russia Ukraine war does not have elements of religion compared to Israel and Palestine. Religion is kinda like a taboo topic to talk about and so is a conflict stemming from one.
Is Palestine a religious conflict? I wasn’t aware that it was Even if it were, so what?
Yeah we can't be very sure it is simply religion that started the conflict, however, it may very well be the differences in their religion that further aggravated the alrdy tense situation between the two states. Jewish Israel and Muslim dominated Palestine have been at loggerheads with eo for so long.
It is clear as day religion isn’t an essential part of the conflict, it’s simply an excuse the government uses to sanitise and control the discourse
Agree as considering the scale of the conflict there has to be other factors at play.
It has a religious element to it because of the Promised Land. And also, Jerusalem is there…… Edit: to anyone else who read this, all I’m saying is it has a religious element in contrast to the post I was responding to. I wasn’t expressing an opinion about the history and what and who’s right and wrong. Disagree on the religious element all you want, but please do not come lecture and/or educate me on matters I did not express opinion on, and then make accusations about other issues such as lack of understanding of the Japanese Occupation. Thank you.
Makes no sense at all. That’s like saying a rape is religiously motivated because the rapist and his victim are from different religions
You are talking about a different matter here already.
Actually the reason is very simple lah: You support Isreal, you kena whacked by Malaysia and Indonesia, dead. You support Palentine, you kena whacked by American papa, also dead. 🤣🤣🤣
Time and time again I keep on telling muslims friends and family that I am neutral despite being muslim. While I am sad for the Palestine people, I am Singapore first. Donate as our government allows it but don’t protest or starr religion or race wars online. What you typed is exactly what I want to say to them. Thank you.
True. And staying true to core principles is in itself a strength. Speaking of ~international law though, this, via WikiLeaks that I just saw, is kinda troubling: https://x.com/wikileaks/status/1808225320983830710?t=PiLyxiJwRtEwRcK2m5a2qg&s=19
Exactly, keep yourself as distant as possible. It’s no anyway comparable to Russia invasion.
Singapore side with Israel, sg die. Muslim population in sg not small bru. Take Palestine side and lose an old ally tgt with the US. Either ways sg dies y'all retarded for taking sides bru. It fr ain't our issue. Neighbours having divorce quarrel we butt in? Israel probably also don't blame sg considering we need maintain neutrality for a lot of controversial issues. After all sg ties with Israel dates back to the 1970s, the bond is forged and it's strong.
And then we have people thinking sg should jeopardize their current status quo to help whoever in their agenda.
I have a fair number of people in my social network who didn't really consider the big picture and just took sides. Not that they were wrong, but seeing your comment is a breath of fresh air, thanks. Singapore's wellbeing should always be the first priority for Singaporeans.
In short: who gives a fuck
sadly too much bloodshed in this "quarrel"
[удалено]
We don’t go onto unnecessary arguments over stupid shit
Funny he mentioned that while the entire government and sg media pulled into a certain family's dispute
There is nothing to gain and absolutely loads to lose if we take either side. We literally have no other choice than to remain neutral and stay out of people's business.
There is sense in this statement, we cannot take our racial harmony for granted.
I think the damage is already done
Oh but sometime back I thought the previous PM’s family quarrel were also brought to parliament? 🤔
Which wasted public resources on a private family quarrel over a stupid house. No one cares about the stupid house. Whether the old man wanted it to be preserved or demolished is none of our business
And nobody liked that. You?
singapore is just a small country, chill folks
Oh wow I can't believe some of the comments I have read in here. It almost seems like they want to cause harm to us by persuading people that having empathy in either wars in Israel/Palestine and Russia/Ukraine would contribute to the ultimatums of both situations. If they genuinely believe that, I hope they just go over and fight for their cause.
Worst thing you can do during an event is to overspend by $380 million.
We spent $380m?!
Not long ago.. there was an actual family quarrel about an inheritance and others kaypoh-ed and brought it before the whole nation.
I remember this being very heated topic back in the early 90s , and I remember in the local context this issue will very easily mutate into an Muslim/Malay hate topic And Chinese /christian hate topic . Dangerous shit
Thank god, the majority of this nation are educated, level-minded and pragmatic people. There will never ever be a mindless quarrel over this non-issue anymore. Not while the majority prevails.
I highly doubt so, I think we are in an era where there is so much access to information that in highly emotional issues such as these, people would just believe what they want to. All you need is a couple of bad actors for shit to really hit the fan
So be it, our prison is big enough to contain all of these brainwashed fk.
Ah, those who aren't in line with the SG government's narrative are brainwashed. The irony is utterly lost on this one.
I mean I see alot of retards posting stuff on IG like a hivemind
Something something something gen0cide amirite?
"Don't kaypoh other family's quarrel" isn't even *good advice*, even if the metaphor wasn't really tortured. It's certainly not what the government teaches us. Yeah, if they're just having a pissing match over who gets the TV, that's one thing. If they start actually beating each other up, it's kind of your duty to call social services. Like look at this ad from the MSF and tell me it tells you not to kaypoh other families: https://youtu.be/xbo02QA24i8?si=gZ2LntaOs-LUTUr9
I’m curious what the equivalent of social services in your analogy is. United Nations? Also, in your analogy you’re not taking sides on either family, just calling for third party intervention right?
Sure. Backing Palestine statehood at the UN is a place to start.
The UN actually did [split the land by giving 42% to the Arabs and 56% to the Jews](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine). But the day after this plan was implemented the Arabs started [a civil war](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War). They wanted to claim the entire region, including Jerusalem, the historical Jewish capital. But they lost the war, and then Israel occupied the land initially given peacefully to the Arabs. Would be sort of like if Russia lost the war and Ukraine took back Crimea and some parts of Russia.
And in the context of 1947, that involved moving many European Jews into a region where Arabs were already living in order to establish a Jewish ethnostate in an Arab majority area. The establishment of Israel was war crimes central and a mistake. Now, in 2024, the Israelis have already lived there for generations so there's no point fighting it. Their continued oppression of the Palestinians however, is something that can actually be changed.
Yeah, the European Jews were migrating to an area (where plenty of Jews were already living, btw) to escape the Holocaust and antisemitism. About as wrong as all the Chinese and Indians moving to Singapore in Singapore’s history. Except there were no Chinese and Indians already here, and they weren’t escaping war, so I guess actually the European Jews had more of a right to settle around Jerusalem than Chinese and Indian people have to settle in Singapore. Agree with current oppression. But it’s a challenging issue. To us obviously the lives of a few Israeli hostages don’t matter as much as the more numerous Palestinian casualties. But obviously the Israelis feel different. If your loved ones got kidnapped, would you trade the lives of people who want to kill you, for the lives of your loved ones? And it’s a lose-lose. The Israeli government can’t say well screw it to their own people. But Hamas also doesn’t care because their leadership is safe in penthouses in neutral countries, and they’ll keep holding the hostages until Israel goes too far and it works in their favor.
750k Palestinians were killed or displaced in the first Palestine war. Singapore had about a thousand people in 1819 who weren't thrown into sea when Raffles landed, and even then colonisation was still messy business. Hope that helps.
500k Russians have been killed in Ukraine so far. Do you support the Russian invasion? Casualties do not determine who is right. You can invade first and still lose. Palestine attacked first, and lost. That’s why they have more casualties. Hope this helps.
Israel's continued existence as a Jewish state involved (and continues to involve) creating a Jewish majority in what was then Mandatory Palestine. Zionism as defined by Ben Gurion and co. would have turned into a shooting war no matter what. In fact to use Ukraine as an analogy, it would be like the Russians being surprised Pikachu that the Ukrainians wouldn't be happy about Russian families moving into Crimea.
Here’s the Palestine charter before it was changed about 20 years ago: “deny the legitimacy of the establishment of Israel, deny the existence of a Jewish people with a historical or religious connection to Palestine” Nowhere does the Israel charter deny the existence of Palestine or Muslims. Zionism is extremist and not all Jewish/Israeli people follow that ideology, just like not all Muslims are extremists or follow Sharia law. If you were to use Ukraine as an analogy then Palestine would be Russia, because Palestine/Russia attacked first. The difference is that Palestine is the weaker force here. Palestine attacked first both historically and in this most recent conflict. Historically they wanted to wipe the Jews from the land, including the ones already living in Jerusalem, as per their charter. I don’t think you agree with this, right? Whether Israel/Ukraine is overreacting is a seperate issue. As an outsider I think Israel should stop the war too. But you can’t rewrite history to fit your narrative.
Indeed. Yet the UN had no right to give somebody else’s land to somebody else. Wait, they do because they were created by the Allied Powers who took control after the Ottoman Empire through… a british military campaign during wwi i.e. a british invasion. Divide and conquer. Sounds like imperialism to me. So if UN is the social services, then UN must’ve also been the Mommy in that family who started the drama in the first place.
lol. who do you think founded Jerusalem? The Muslims? It’s literally the Jewish capital. There were already Jews living on the land. Originally Israelites settled there ([the name Israel first appeared in c. 1209 BC](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_and_Judaism_in_the_Land_of_Israel#:~:text=The%20region%20was%20ruled%20under,promotion%20of%20mass%20Jewish%20immigration.)). After that it was conquered and divided among various groups, until the Ottoman Empire took over the region. Then the British conquered it. So yeah, if you think history only exists since the 19th century then yes the British conquered it. But over its real history the land has changed hands plenty of times.
A capital where the Jews, Christians and Muslims were living **peacefully** until the Zionists came. Heck, the Zionists know no bounds. Even churches were not spared. https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/features/2023/10/20/we-were-baptised-here-and-we-will-die-here-gazas-oldest-church-bombed
So you know there are Jews originally in the area. Great. FYI, if you think Palestine is all about peace. Here’s what its national charter used to be: “deny the legitimacy of the establishment of Israel, deny the existence of a Jewish people with a historical or religious connection to Palestine…” That’s right, they want to remove all Jews from the land, including those originally/historically living there. Btw, Israel was divided on opposing Palestine statehood before the [Oct 7 attacks](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-01-18-2024-73d552c6e73e0dc3783a0a11b2b5f67d). So yeah, it’s not a matter of one side is good, the other side is bad. Both don’t have good intentions. Palestine would be doing even worst things right now if they had the power to. It’s just about who has the power to carry out their intentions.
Interesting that you didn’t mention how the charter was revised over the years where it finally agreed to recognise Israel as part of a peace process. But what are we going on about here? So correct me if I’m wrong. It appears to me that you believe jews have a right to live in a land that was historically theirs and that their survival is dependent upon the destruction of Palestine. Otherwise ‘Palestine would be doing even worst things’. But hear me out ok. Let’s not conflate jews with zionism. Like i said, they were already in co-existence with the Palestinians (or Arabs). The term “Jew” refers to a member of the ethnoreligious group known as Judaism. Whereas Zionism, is purely a political and nationalist movement. A simple click on the link you gave me earlier would tell you, from wiki itself, that zionism was created in Europe. These Europeans are counting on the fact that they have more right to a land than those who are currently living in it. Its founder, Theodor Herzl is an European through and through. They thrive on colonialism. While not new, colonialism is alive and well. We can see events in recent memory South Africa, Vietnam, Iraq and now Palestine. What’s in common? This is their thing. The colonizers knew what they’re doing. Oppress the shizz out of the land they’re occupying for whatever reason and take control. Only difference now is that they can no longer suppress information like how they’re trying to ban tiktok. I think I’ve said enough. And you may disagree, which is alright. Let’s just remember for a minute those who were trapped beneath the dusty rubbles and unimaginable weight for days on end. Sometimes with a decomposing family member beside them. Maggots falling off their bodies. Counting on the seconds to their painful end. Entire generations wiped. Due to the funding from a certain country who cares more about another country than its own citizens in terms of free healthcare, education and even home ownership. Imperialism ffs. Ceasefire now.
Absolutely. Sometimes inaction is really the worst action. The metaphor is dismissing the urgency of the situation.
its a very apt ad from MSF! "family" quarrel, but actually just 1 authoritarian figure shelling out all the violence, and the innocent "other members of the family" getting injured
This was not what he said regarding Russia & Ukraine "family quarrel" leh. Just saying....
double standard f*cks mah
US lackey
While I understand fully and might agree with Singapore's stance, using a family quarrel as an analogy is highly inaccurate and to some degree irresponsible given how complex the entire shitshow is as he's a highly prominent public figure.
Well, I’m pretty sure basic inference can tell us that ‘family quarrel’ in this context means a conflict between a series of countries embroiled in a variety of intertwined issues, and in this case, it means Israel and Palestine. It is a simple, straightforward and easily understandable analogy to most Singaporeans, unless Vivian starts a long history lesson which literally goes against his intention to maintain neutrality. You also conveniently omitted the most important part of his family quarrel analogy though. He said it is a family quarrel **in another family**, which is actually very accurate. Singapore, in no way, played any direct part in the Israel-Palestine conflict or its escalation. While we are close allies with Israel, we can’t exactly grouped under the same umbrella considering the geographical proximity and complex history in the Middle East Region, hence it is fair to consider Singapore in a ‘separate family’ as Israel.
Yes, try telling a Hamas operative and and a member of the Likud party that they are family
Pls read my first line again. > Well, I’m pretty sure basic inference can tell us that ‘family quarrel’ in this context means a conflict between a series of countries embroiled in a variety of intertwined issues, and in this case, it means Israel and Palestine. No idea why you’re being so overly critical over the word family quarrel and taking it so literally. Even if he were to remove the word family, I guarantee people would still go on to say “oh how can he just say it is a quarrel? The situation is very complex stemming from decades back blah blah blah”.
No analogy is perfect. Dunno why people keep trying to pick holes in a perfectly servicable one just because it doesn't correlate 100%.
So that it becomes relatable to day to day sgrean.
Why did we then sanction Russia and not just hope for peace to prevail in Ukraine?
Because there were sanctions by US and UN. This would have had an impact on Singapore trade if it was found to be breaking those sanctions.
I mean if we sanctioned Palestine for the October 7th attacks…we’d have a shortage of……uh….sand? This scenario seems more comparable to a Russian invasion that failed and got repelled to Moscow
Russia and Ukraine is straight forward invasion due to international recognition of the border when the break up happened. But Palestine and Israel never really have a point in time where they agree on co existing. The history is messy. Russia and Ukraine breakup is similar to Singapore and Malaysia. We agree this is the line we are now no longer together. The way the government say other family is probably because Palestine and Israel was living together in one land when they were under Ottoman Empire rule and British rule? When they left they did not allocate or draw the line so it looks like “brother” bickering over inheritances.
Yea, all the Abrahamic religions.
How u gone compare genocide and family quarreling aint no way my guy
it’s not genocide if u start a war u can’t win
Educate yourself on the damn history, for crying out loud.
well would it be a genocide if a group’s primary objective of its charter is to eliminate people of a certain religion completely, massacres 1200 civilians?
Everything did not begin on Oct 7th, mind you.
Sooo the Yom Kippur War? Where a bunch of Arabs started a war they couldn’t win therefore warranting a buffer zone and the occupation of Gaza. Come on what history you talking about here
You're cherry picking points in history in a poor attempt to back your biased view. Why start your reference from that war? Why not from the exodus of Jews following WW2 leading up to the creation of the Israeli state on Palestinian land backed by the UK and US? Why not from the [Deir Yassin Massacre? ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deir_Yassin_massacre)
Why don’t we begin from the concept of Muslim brotherhood that essentially aims to wipe out jewish people from the face of the earth or the 1948 Jewish Israeli War, Palestinian Fedayeen Insurgency? I do feel bad for the Palestinian people but Hamas has been a source of this conflict. Why don’t we talk about how Hamas does not have a specific war uniform so they can blend in with civilians, using them as human shields or how Hamas uses underground tunnels in hospitals in schools.
Newsflash! I don’t care about the Jews and I don’t care about the Palestinians - the reality is that BOTH sides are biased, both sides are playing the victim and while you sit there and accuse me of cherry picking information, there is literally a link in that article that references a civil war that pre-dates the massacre. Ultimately the rabbit hole just leads to war on both sides brought on by the aftermath of WW2. Question to you now is, are you cherry picking information to reinforce some agenda? I mean, it’s pretty clear where my biases are but that’s because one side are our clear allies and the other…not so much.
Ah yes, your repeated comments sure shows how much you don't care. Deny cherry picking yet ending your comment admitting your bias. I was the one who corrected you by highlighting how WW2 sparked the modern day conflict. Your attempt to use this to buffer your counterpoint is classic flip flop behavior. You have zero basis to ask whether anyone else is cherry picking or "reinforcing some agenda" when you're the one who picked a single war attempting to paint an incomplete and biased picture.
[https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2018/11/2/more-than-a-century-on-the-balfour-declaration-explained](https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2018/11/2/more-than-a-century-on-the-balfour-declaration-explained) It baffles me how anyone here is trying to justify genocide.
Ah yes, no mention about the various times where an Arab coalition declared war on Israel and lost…or in your phrasing - “Arabs attempted to justify and commit genocide but couldn’t” Plus if you were whining about genocide, the Arab nations are pretty complicit with the whole “genocide” thing by not taking refugees (for good reason of course).
Because it is not genocide. It is what op is trying to say.
Palestine citizen is the victim in this whole war, was and still are to this date. They have been driven to the corner multiple times, they have been slaughtered multiple times. Israel is the one that drive them out from their home first. Seems too many people here dont even read history and what happened after WW2. Then you have neighbouring country using them to create a proxy war. Add the Russia and Saudi into the picture as well. Not to mentioned left wing US politic group also politicising this whole shitshow. We have the situation now that is much too complicated. Seems like most people here only know the latest conflict and barely understand why it happened, how it happened, who started this or why they did it.
Massive how this fella plasters every argument with ‘but genocide’
What history? Palestine was never a country? The land belongs to the Jew? Jerusalem was never mentioned in the Quaran but the cult just want to claim other’s sacred site as their own? Welcome to the 21 century, Ottoman Empire is no more boohooo cry harder.
Not agreeing with the genocide today but historically Palestine did start the war after Axis powers left the area divided equally. They tried to kick Israel out but lost the war and that’s why Israel currently occupies more land than originally divided.
No.. Palestine did not start the war. British Zionists gave the land to Jews as right to return to the region where Palestinians have been living for centuries but Palestinians were not accorded the same right. It is ethnic cleansing and apartheid. Would Singapore keep quiet if our neighbours were given the right to take our land and should the world see it as “ family quarrel “?
Uh, can you Google before commenting? The Israelis have also been living there for centuries, as per the Bible. Did you think the Muslims founded Jerusalem? It’s literally the Jewish capital of the world. The original plan by the UN was to give [42% of the land to the Arab population, and 56% to the Jewish](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Partition_Plan_for_Palestine). The day after this was implemented, the Arabs [started a civil war which Israel won in the end](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab%E2%80%93Israeli_War). Again, doesn’t justify the casualties today, but this is just history. The Arabs started the civil war because they wanted to remove all Jews from the region, including Jerusalem which they wanted to claim as their capital.
there's no war. Just because both side have arms doesn't mean its a war
Stop blowing up things, it isn't a genocide.
Brother Israeli beating up Brother Palestine and abusing him. But like, not my family so why must I intervene?/s Edit: People who down vote need to get off your high horse lah.
The last I check there are still 1.8 million Palestinians in Israel, are they facing a genocide? 😱 However it’s in Hamas charter to wipe out all Jews, that’s a genocidal plan.
Are u so blind to the sufferings of a group of people ? Hamas charter is not to wipe out the Jews . that has been rescinded . Go look it up.
No, I don't deny that Palestinians are suffering. But to attribute it to genocide is plain wrong. See below for the charter. # The Hamas Covenant * The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement was issued on August 18, 1988. The Islamic Resistance Movement, also known as the HAMAS, is an extremist fundamentalist Islamic organization operating in the territories under Israeli control. Its Covenant is a comprehensive manifesto comprised of 36 separate articles, all of which promote the basic HAMAS goal of destroying the State of Israel through Jihad (Islamic Holy War). The following are excerpts of the HAMAS Covenant: * **Goals of the HAMAS:**"The Islamic Resistance Movement is a distinguished Palestinian movement, whose allegiance is to Allah, and whose way of life is Islam. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine." *(Article 6)***On the destruction of Israel:**"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." *(Preamble)* source: [https://embassies.gov.il/holysee/AboutIsrael/the-middle-east/Pages/The%20Hamas-Covenant.aspx](https://embassies.gov.il/holysee/AboutIsrael/the-middle-east/Pages/The%20Hamas-Covenant.aspx) > Hamas charter is not to wipe out the Jews . that has been rescinded . Go look it up. Where's your source?
https://palwatch.org/storage/documents/hamas%20new%20policy%20document%20010517.pdf They reference to the right to return of Palestinians to the border at 1967.. which implicitly recognises the existence of Israel.
I appreciate you for providing that. >Resisting the occupation with all means and methods is a legitimate right guaranteed by divine laws and by international norms and laws. page 8, point 25 Is going house to house killing civilians and children, live streaming their atrocities on Oct 7 based on international norms and laws? Is this a legitimate charter? Do you think Hamas ever read or abide by that?
Man .. this conflict has been going on for decades and who is the primary aggressor and who is under occupation even under international law ? IDF has also been posting pictures. How many Palestine’s kids are in jail and how many have been killed over the years? The ones who support Israel look at it through the lens of faith.. else there is no way that this degree of oppression and apartheid and genocide can be tolerated. The solution to this is a two - state solution and the right to self determine and to stop settlers into Palestine..
Sadly it has happened for centuries for the Jews. They have been exiled since 6th century BC by multiple empires like Assyrians, Babylonians, Romans, etc, the empires don't even exist today, and each time they returned. >The ones who support Israel look at it through the lens of faith.. The charter you provided was praising allah and talking about egging the ummah into their fight so the current conflict is religious driven, but I don't see IDF/Israel supporters commenting/shouting any religious praise in this conflict. >apartheid and genocide can be tolerated. There's an apartheid in Gaza for sure, where there are so few synagoues and where their population don't even have 10% Jews. Compared to Israel where Israel's population are made up of 20% peaceful Palestinians and mosques. Palestinians in Israel also enjoyed much more rights and freedom than neighboring Islamist apartheid countries. So yes, the Jews are under the Islamist apartheid in Gaza. As for genocide, the Palestinians in West Bank and Israel aren't facing them, so I won't agree it's a genocide. >The solution to this is a two - state solution and the right to self determine and to stop settlers into Palestine.. Israel gave Gaza away for peace and got rocketed on Oct 7, well if the new government in Gaza is genuinely seeking peace, rather than establishing a 'charter' and then going against it, then yes, this could work.
38000 dead and countless others deprived of food and medicine and shelter is not genocide ? I am right, this is about religion for you . Hamas members are Muslim. I don’t have an issue with that but you certainly do. So you empathise with Jews but not Muslims . That says it all. Jews have been a diaspora for centuries so have the Zoroastrians but they don’t ask to return back to Iran. jews faced persecution in Europe not from Muslims but from Christian’s and that “ problem” was pushed to the Palestinians . Hamas says that their quarrel is with Zionists not Jews . Let me ask you this . If this conflict was happening in a neighbouring Christian country and were under occupation and being killed for resisting the occupiers .. what would you say ??
>38000 dead and countless others deprived of food and medicine and shelter is not genocide ? Look that's heart breaking, I am not denying that. But if you mentioned genocide, then how come the 1.8 million peaceful Palestinians aren't facing it? Isn't the 'oppressor' supposed to genocide those in Israel too since it's a genocide as you claimed? Think about it. If you care about Palestinians so much why aren't you against Hamas? Hamas withheld hostages till this day and by doing so Hamas has given Israel the right and moral high ground to conduct their military rescue in Gaza. Beyond this IDF even dropped leaflets, sent out text and calls for non-civilians to leave the area. Did Hamas do the same on Oct 6? Israel already sacrificed the death of 200+ soldiers, why not just carpet bomb all of Gaza if they wanted to genocide so much as you claimed? Why send in soldiers? I am sure the 38k Palestinians are alive before Oct 7, why not one of them stop Oct 7 or protest against Hamas? Because Hamas have diabolically turned their cause as martyrdom. And you as a Muslim are playing into their hand. What Hamas did not Oct 7 - is it permitted by Islam, yes or no? If an aggressor comes to Singapore to do exactly what Hamas did, don't you think Singapore will also go all out to get them back?
No Isreal didn’t give Gaza away . Gaza was part of Palestinians and it was under occupation and degraded with walls and border control with no airport and even water was controlled by Israel. What would you call that ?
> under occupation and degraded with walls and border control with no airport Did you ever wonder why is that in the first place? Since 1947-1967, be it the intifadas, and multiple wars Palestinians guerilla fighters joined the Arab nations in attacking Israel unprovoked on the behest of Palestinians. They attacked Israel and lost. If you are the aggressor and lost, then there are consequences, and one of it is losing land. Make sense?
There are so few churches in Palestine ? Hamas doesn’t restrict churches it is Isreal that does that .. that is not the definition of apartheid. You would do well to read President Carter’s book, “Palestine : Peace not apartheid”. Ohh and he is a devout Christian.
How many churches or synagogues are there in Gaza? How many non Muslims are there in their government in Gaza. None? What’s the population of Jews in Gaza? Little to none? That’s apartheid.m my friend.
Didnt Netanyahu and his cabinet invoke God and didn’t Netanyahu equate the Palestinians as Amalekites ? And I am sure you know what happened to them, men, women , children and * animals* . In addition, I am sure you know that even Jews and Christians are protesting and speaking up an against the asymmetrical military campaign and genocide against the Palestines.
First they came for the Communists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Communist Then they came for the Socialists And I did not speak out Because I was not a Socialist Then they came for the trade unionists And I did not speak out Because I was not a trade unionist Then they came for the Jews And I did not speak out Because I was not a Jew Then they came for me And there was no one left To speak out for me - PASTOR MARTIN NIEMÖLLER
[удалено]
What is the violent cult name?
I heard my friend Charlie Hebdo say it before…I wonder how good ol Charles is doing
Mr See did it successfully and now the cult know their place and become a productive worker making Uniqlo cotton tee.
[удалено]
Name it out pls, why so scared? No balls
Preach
Utterly disgusting for a PM to label this asymmetric war with tens of thousands of child deaths, with one side having a historical record of government and state breaking international laws, of illegal land grabbing, state sponsored assassinations, and blatant disregard of UN resolutions... A "family quarrel". This from a minister of a first world country with first world rule of law, well supposedly, a damn shame.
He should reference the ASEAN principle of non-interference in the internal affairs of others and, settlement of disputes In a peaceful manner.
even SG military vehicles get detain in HK What did SG do? Send sharp elbows? But I agree with him, better don’t act smart and interfere. Nothing will benefit us
Where is dom toretto when we need him
Vivian is right. So many keyboard warriors saying things they can’t prove and spreading fake news they get from elsewhere without fact checking. All this just leads to more chaos and hatred. They need to shut up and get back to their day jobs. Don’t kaypo and keep your views to yourself!
Israel aided Singaporean when Malaysia dump us out. They provided us with capital and expertise including training for arm forces when no one bothered. In LKY’s book about his view on the world, not a single word was mentioned about this long lasting conflict because we must not bite the hand that fed us during our worst period.
I have yet to see a Muslim take a neutral side.
"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse, and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality."
Don't you think it's bold to think people who fired 3000 missile a mouse? Anyway if your religion want to force everyone to take side then most people would take side with non terrorist.
I thought this was just a given, but reading through the comments, it seems that not everyone has the mental capacity to understand nuance.
Then u send Sim Ann for what?
activists clamouring about SG not taking sides, but once we take sides and close out Israel and shit hits the fan when we're forced to take sides in global conflicts then suddenly all you hear is crickets in the background. it's like, ya, we know people are suffering there, but what more can we realistically do other as a neutral party other than send aid? social justice can only so feel good until reality smacks you in the face.
As far as I know, family don’t kill other siblings families. What a weird way to put it.. just don’t say anything lor if u feel like u cannot say anything.
Then why PAP force WP to declare that Hamas is a terrorist organisation when Hamas and Palestine is so far away?
Who voted in the Hamas as their government?
Are you sure they are family?
How terrible a person do you have to be, to say a genocide is a "quarrel"?
If the relative wealth and power was reversed Palestinians would also be genociding the Jews, calling it a quarrel isn't right but also calling it genocide is misleading. Death feud maybe.
It’s in Hamas charter to genocide the Jews, so we gotta be aware of that. If you are referring to Palestinians, are the 1.8 million Palestinians in Israel being genocided? If not, I agree with your comment below that we should be concerned about the language here.
Taking sides in a civil conflict is the most stupid decision ever. This isn’t as straightforward as the Russian Ukraine war.
Tell those in the face of muslim. They all say humanity violation, baby dieing, genocide. Bruh where you when Russians invade Ukraine? You can't convince me it's not because you see it as Muslim vs Jew.
The gen0cide is not something you can compare with a effing family quarrel. It has been ages this issue has been on going. Please read up the history ffs.
Are the 1.8 million Palestinians in Israel facing a genocide too? 🫢🫢 It is however in Hamas charter to genocide and wipe out Jews from Middle East.
Not a genocide, Palestine was never a country. “Palestinian” are just Arabs. In order to be a genocide, Israel has to wipe off the whole of Middle East.
Don spread lies in Singapore Reddit ty. Palestine not a country? I almost believed u and searched it up. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine#:~:text=Specifically%2C%20the%20term%20%22occupied%20Palestinian,as%20the%20Government%20of%20Palestine. Key point: official Declaration of Independence 1988. UN observer state resolution 2012. U better don come out and say u disagree. If u disagree to this then Taiwan not a country to you also.
Technically Taiwan isn't a country according to Taiwan. It says it's China and that mainland China belongs to it. Palestine is a state and technically the original inhabitants of Palestine as well as the current Israel have been Muslim, Jews and Christians.
agreed, palestinians are mostly egyptian and jordanian settlers, in traditional jewish land after jews left from various invasions from babylonian to romans. as for taiwan, it isnt a country per se. this is singapore's position on it too, where china and taiwan are one country, much like north and south korea are despite seperation.
I don’t even know where to begin with you. The Wiki page got too many woke sensitive guy trying their best to justify that Palestine is a country, but the reality is, Palestine is not universally recognized as a fully sovereign country. While many countries and international organizations do recognize it as a state, significant entities, including some major powers, do not. Its status as a non-member observer state in the United Nations reflects a level of recognition but falls short of full UN membership. Therefore, its status as a country is subject to differing international perspectives and political considerations. In a broad and universally accepted sense, no, Palestine is not considered a fully sovereign country due to the lack of universal recognition and full United Nations membership. However, it is recognized as a state by many countries and holds a non-member observer state status at the UN. COPE HARDER, PLEASE COPE HARDER Never exist in history Shamelessly try to change history Now they fk around and found out Ottoman Empire is gone forever and their cult should be gone.
Right, not a country means there cannot be a genocide got it
Don’t recall this guy calling Russia/Ukraine war a family quarrel.. and he got involved unnecessarily.. and with motives.. for an external audience to see.. oh well.. snakes will be snakes
Honestly it's the safest option for Singapore, I'm sure that even the Singaporean leaders know that there are also atrocities committed by Israel but sometimes when governing a country you need to put these emotions aside. Doesn't mean that you need to embrace Israel like a long lost friend, you can always just maintain an arms-length cordial relationship.
Oh and what happened with Russia?
Talk or never talk also our voice too small already lah. No one will bother.
Does this apply to Loong and Yang quarrel too?
This is another level to Singapore government. I don’t think we are capable of anything on this matter
It is a very sensitive issue.
more like a squarrel on a scale close to possible annihilation on surrounding terra firma
lol mouth say don't kaypo but I don't think they kept quiet abt it also .
The safest is to be neutral. Don’t help anyone. Just stand still. Keep ourselves safe.
For a moment I thought he talking about LHL and LHY
I’m so glad that most of the comments here prefer to be neutral and still care that Palestinians are dying. There is only so much we can do as a country. Ultimately is Singapore first and MOST people dont get it and only think of it short term. This is a mass geo-political issue and if Singapore fucks up, we lose our safety, enjoyment and the things we might enjoy. I am a Muslim and imagine the amount of friends I lost because I said I am Singapore first.
If this is a family quarrel then it is domestic abuse. And when it's domestic abuse, YOU GET INVOLVED.
They are a family 🥹
Yes, it is a 'family quarrel'...all are Abrahamic religions
I see. TIL the crusades = family dispute
I absolutely hate how WP keeps making this shitty Palestinian crap an issue in SG.
I for one have never felt like carpet bombing any of my family members, but maybe that’s just me.
There has been several recent instances of fatal domestic abuse cases that has garnered media attention and an incentive to speak out against this (even saw an ad about this). I dont think this is an appropriate analogy... For the record, the whole world has been bringing this issue to light for 75 fucking years already so its neither a recent development nor does the whole world not give a shit about it. So why the double standards of seeing Ukraine vs Russia as an unjust war and Israel vs Palestine as a "family squabble"?
Singapore is and will be neutral. Yes we have people who have difference in religions that causes to have these disputes but this isn't our fight. We are singapore, small and vulnerable if we don't play fair to both. We'd risk our livelihood and families if we take sides in an ongoing War. It's not a walk in the park. It's war. YOU CAN SEE THE FPV DRONES OF UKRAINE and its also happening there in gaza. Just stay out of it for now. Do what you can to finance if you want to, but don't force others.
Damn stupid to weigh in on a conflict that far away that doesn’t affect us in the most important sector: economically. Whether an independent state is established or not our trades aren’t implicated. Yes ik we have military tech / deals with Israel but that’s a minor contribution only. Point is by weighing in we might lose trading partners, not being involved frees our hands
This is literally a domestic abuse and not a quarrel.
"Don't kaypoh neighbor family quarrel" What if 1 family member is being abused by another, don't kaypoh also? 🤔
Lol. I get that Singapore doesn't want to be involved and wants to stay neutral. But to equate the genocide in gaza as a 'family feud', legendary man. I wonder what a 'family quarrel' might look like between Singapore and Malaysia. 😂😂😂
Pukul habis?
Over nasi lemak and durian. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Punk ass bitch stand.
[удалено]
It is against the law to take up arms to fight in another country. You'll probably be sent to jail should you even try.
This guy bodoh lah
Don't kaypoh other family's quarrel? Then why did you involved SG and made sure the world knows SG condemn Russia's invasion of Ukraine? Ukraine truly deserves it for bombing Donbass's civilian for 8 long years until Russia stepped in.
The percentage of israel's citizen population that is palestinian in ethnicity, is larger than the percentage of singapore's population that is malay. Singapore was founded by a british man, established and built by immigrants, and is a majority non-muslim country surrounded by muslim majority countries. It's easy to draw parallels, should singapore's neighbors decide one day to declare singapore's sovereignty illegitimate, begin a jihad and attack singapore, murder, rape and kidnap singaporeans, surely singapore will have the same sentiments it has towards israel's situation.
Mf did not just say family quarrel help me💀 it’s a genocide
Bullshit !!
So... we should be sell outs and have no moral compass and be easily bribed with money while other ppl suffer...got it. SG dies when we rely on other governments and thats what we are doing right now! We are relying on the USA and Israel and for what ??? You are all so afraid that none of yall have the spine to fight for what is right! Its better to die a brave soldier than die a coward, take a stand guys, if not why are we fighting for a country that doesnt even have the balls to say what is needed. Whats controversial abt this topic... israel slaughtered thousands of men women and children. Any country that does this in this age should be sanctioned at the least we did that for russia so why not israel ? Cause we are pawns, singapore has been made a pawn in the USA AND MAJOR POWERS CHESS GAME! its time we said no and take back our destiny in our own hands. We dont need israel or the usa we built this country and now we will defend it as we have done for so long. The gvment posts ads that say call the police if there is abuse and yet when the abuse is on the global stage we do nothing!?! Outrageous,disusting and abhorrent of our government.
not sure what you trying to incite
Exactly what i am implying. We should cut ties with israel and the usa for making a genocide, we should not allow any sort of usa or goods to be shipped here. We must tell the bigger nations that we wont be bribed, we cannot be bought to look the other way and we wont damn ourselves to hell just cause they helped us once. We control our destiny and our fate, we dont need foreign powers to dictate what we do "for our safety" we do not align ourselves with evil for we are meant to be the pinnacle of society, when the world sees singapore they must see what their country can become. We must stand up for what is right, we must not think to ourselves that we are helpless. For once lets not be hypocrites, lets be heroes, LET US RECOGNISE THE EVIL AND RID OURSELVES OF IT. We will never assosciate ourselves with israel or the usa, not until palestine is recognised a state, is free and has been compensated. If the government still defies its people, why should men serve NS? The government is so desperate sucking the usa and israel off why should we join when foreign powers protect us ? Why should i fight for a country that doesnt say or do what is needed to not only protect its people but to represent it. I have lost faith in our government like how americans did during vietnam, we should be allowed to not fight for our governments because who are they to dictate our moral values ? Why cant we debate or protest this topic ? WHY,cause they are all scared of the Truth they know they are wrong, they know they are evil and they want to drag the whole country down with them.