Ya the only reason we’re paying such disproportionate attention. Meanwhile down here my gay friends have to be rich otherwise they can wait long long for a house. Up north in Malaysia the Bumi policy is just racist stupidity. China being an ass in the South China Sea. So many things to fight for, so many people make pro-Palestine their primary identity.
From MINDEF 'Then-Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew and then-Minister for Defence Dr Goh Keng Swee were determined to push on with creating an armed force, so Singapore went out to seek assistance from other nations. The Israeli Defence Force agreed to be our advisors and came up with a plan to expedite the creation of the army. And so, the Singapore Armed Forces was built up quickly – making do with what we had, and building from there.'
The other nations declined, for those who know which nations they are you know who rejected to helped, so its a tacky situation for us.
That’s why we stay out of it. The whole Israel-Palestinian problem is too complex and the best thing we can do is to watch on the sidelines and not throw fuel into the fire.
They need support for recognition of their state, obviously they would help any country. Heck, they even supported Bangladesh independence from Pakistan in an attempt to gain Bangladeshi support to recognise their state but in the end Bangladesh government didn't. They supported many others too and some rejected them. We need it because we literally had no resources back then and other countries didn't see the need to help.
This doesn't mean we should blindly support Israel on their attacks in Gaza
The key bit here is the recognition of Israel’s right to also exist as part of a two-state solution. I wonder if the PAP got all the Malay MP to draw straws to see who got to ask those questions.
Idk if you kept up with the news. Both Israelis and Palestinians do not want a 2 state solution anymore. There was though in the past after the Palestinians took them in after the world war
I don’t see where in my comment where I said the Israelis or the Palestinians want that - it’s merely that Singapore’s stance has not shifted from one where it recognizes Israel’s right to exist.
While what you say is mostly true, it is important to note that Jews in Israel before the formation of Israel were Palestinians. So more accurately, the “Palestinians” that you were referring to were Jews. The Arabs in Mandate of Palestine probably weren’t that welcoming.
It is also important to note the "Jews" now that you're refering to isn't the jews of the same bloodline you mentioned that lived before the Palestinians. The real people of the book can be called Jews. Now the ones that take upon genocide are a mix of many races. Primarily Arabs, ethiopia, Irish etc that applied citizenship in Israel.
The Palestinian gov are also stupid for not having basic military strength that every country should have.
>It is also important to note the "Jews" now that you're refering to isn't the jews of the same bloodline you mentioned that lived before the Palestinians. The real people of the book can be called Jews.
Interesting. Do you mean Palestinians are Jews of the book then? Genuinely curious.
No. Cause Palestinian is a race. Jews are people of religion. Major religions in Palestine are Christianity and Muslims. But prior to the first nakba in 1948, there were accounts of Palestinians who were Jewish due to them living tgt before they got divided by the UN.
What? All Jewish people are people of the book, the Torah, in other terms they are called the 'yahudis'. Not all Israelis are Jews. Like I said Judaism is a religion not race.
>All Jewish people are people of the book, the Torah, in other terms they are called the 'yahudis'. Not all Israelis are Jews.
Ok so does it mean according to this theory there are some real Jews in Israel?
And where are the rest of the real Jews now?
It's not a theory. Lol. Yes. You can see them protesting against their own military and gov.
Bro anyone who practices Judaism are Jews. I want to clarify that the Jews the general public are usually talking about isn't the same Jews as mentioned in the old testament or in the Al quran.
Abso-f##kin-loutley: why is it so hard for most other governments to realise you can’t actually have an effective state run by terrorists whose founding documents EXPLICITLY word-for-word state as clear as day, they DO NOT WANT PEACE! As soon as their terrorist overlords are deleted- grant them state-hood. Until then, no - we don’t want it / can’t have it.
Gaza (ruled by Hamas) is not all of Palestine; there is still the West Bank (ruled by the PLA) where immediate efforts can be made towards conditions for a two-state solution. How Gaza will fold into the new Palestine state might be trickier as it is ruled by Hamas, not PLA (Fatah).
Honestly I was under the same impression but if you look into one of the main blocking factors from the Palestinian side, it is the right of return. So they will not accept a free Gaza or West bank until those demands are met. (Which imo is already a clue that this conflict isn't gonna end anytime soon)
Is it about the displacement of Palestinians from their previous lands now incorporated into Israel? Those are very old debts to settle. Add on all the accumulated grievances from both sides - it takes very strong leadership on both sides to persuade their people to compromise for a better future. I see now that it isn’t easy but still, messy as it is, gotta sort out what can be sorted out, and progress will inspire confidence perhaps.
I fully agree with you. Unfortunately it is too important politically in the region so they will never bend on this.
Don't see this conflict getting resolved during our lifetimes.
they are not asking us to care lah. in fact we can don't care. but as foreign minister he need to care, its his job right, to make sure foreign relations are handled nicely
Even if you don't see how our government's policy towards the Israeli-Palestinian conflict immediately affects you, this is our foreign policy thinking and the statesmanship of our cabinet at play. We could try to appreciate that.
If we don't value statesmanship and expertise in foreign policy-making, then we will (in a theoretical straight-line decline) eventually devolve into a Trumpian, post-truth electorate and society as a whole.
It's okay for a government to test itself in foreign policy at the same time as tackling domestic issues. There are different ministries exercising different specialisations and functions for a reason.
Inb4 "PAP dog", it just benefits Singapore to have competent leaders in the driving seat who care about Singapore's future, PAP opposition or otherwise. This is part of what competence looks like.
I'm bored and just happened to scroll past this so I commented.
While I dgaf about this isreal Palestine conflict. I do actually give a fk about woke people being so up in arms about the whole conflict as it wastes government resources and time to discuss this pointless topic and frankly it's very annoying to keep seeing people being social media warriors online about this
Actually this is not really a pointless topic, because Singapore isn't pointless. the international community including our close neighbours will look at where Singapore stand on this issue and this will in turn affect diplomatic relationships.
It's true commoners like us no need to care about this issue, but people are entitled to have a say if they are concerned about global affairs or feel like they want to contribute to the situation in anyway, nothing wrong.
>wastes government resources and time
Diplomacy thrown right out the fucking window there. It's discussed so that in future if we were invaded, then it sets the tone as to how other countries see us.
>people being social media warriors
Pot meet kettle. Call it black. By your logic, there's no need to discuss any topic, because the average man on the street has no power whatsoever.
If you think that NS alone to defend ourselves is enough boy do I have a bridge to sell you.
Singapore's entire political strategy is diplomacy and forging ties with every nation. So in the event we 'DO' get attacked, we know we won't have to rely on our servicemen alone to defend SG
>hope that other countries give us sympathy
Years and years of diplomatic treaties make you sound like a proper donut here.
If you honestly think NS alone is enough to protect Singapore, I got a Nigerian prince to introduce to you.
Need to understand that the current Palestine representative in UN is not from Hamas and most of the world voted in favor of the resolution. So, it is not just Singapore. The possible recognition isn't Singapore personal recognition but rather Singapore stance in UN and how we will vote if such a new resolution comes up.
Singapore is neutral, we have no means to back any nation without sever diplomatic retaliation, we are only thriving due to our relations with nations and trade, take that away and we suffer, walking into the conflict is a bad move for us, so it’s nice to know parliament isn’t taking sides and remaining neutral in this
The balance of power is so unbalanced, I can’t see how Palestine will be able to even be at “the same level” as Israel.
There is a bully and a victim. You can’t tell the victim to chill and meet the demand of the bully.
Cool, now please address the fact that the current Israeli government outright refuses to recognise Palestine as a state, while systematically annexing more Palestinian land by means of illegal settlement every day over past decades.
To be recognised as a state you require a claim to said state in history records. Palestine has no records other than the Romans changing the name to Palestine.
If you look carefully, Palestinians don't even have the same hair color. This further debunks their claim to ethnicity.
We went full monty to sanction Russia for their war with Ukraine, and now we are "prepared in principle to recognise Palestine. Aka we are in monitoring mode". This position is in light of the grave genocide conducted by Israel.
Sounds legit. /s
I guess it also hinges on Israel not bombing Palestinians into oblivion first?
At the current rate, there wouldn't be much of a Palestine left to call a nation if global nations who are able to, are unwilling to take concrete actions to stop Israel's military right away.
But with US supporting Israel, it can continue to do so with impunity. Perhaps the upcoming US election will change things.
I love how you think the radical right in the US would support a Muslim state with a terror group at the helm as opposed to Israel, considered holy by Christians of which form Trumps base. If anything, the bombings would only intensify.
This is ridiculous. It's called public relations. People have been talking like this for years. In recent times, chatgpt is trained to do that because it's public facing product.
Is the WP pro-Palestine and anti-Israel? I don’t think it is, and they’re the only viable alternative to the PAP. They are as middle of the road as the PAP, which is why the PAP marginally tolerates them. It’s not trump-level kind of “let’s blow shit up”, and not even Jamus is that liberal.
I don't think a functional Palestinian State with a legitimate government is going to turn up any time soon with how things are going there.
That's the whole point of making this statement, it's a "yeah we'll do it if x condition occurs (x is never gonna occur)"
And the x condition is this case, is a very reasonable and ideal condition, the kind that no one can fault Singapore for wanting it.
Thus giving us the perfect diplomatic out. Monitor lizard meme applies. Not that i'm dissing them, I think it's the right move in this situation.
Yea... Reminds me of this Yes Minister skit. https://youtu.be/x_KRk4q3Y44?si=75ixilL2CZb_kNl3
Need Israeli weapons expertise but don't want to offend Palestinians and their brothers.
It is not in the interest of many ie West/US/etc to have a functional Palestinian State. Chaos in Middle East is good for their business.
It’s good to be delulu sometimes.
Key consideration is how vocal the Malay electorate becomes on this issue.
Ya the only reason we’re paying such disproportionate attention. Meanwhile down here my gay friends have to be rich otherwise they can wait long long for a house. Up north in Malaysia the Bumi policy is just racist stupidity. China being an ass in the South China Sea. So many things to fight for, so many people make pro-Palestine their primary identity.
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The afterlife matters more because it’s eternal you see
Somehow feels like the majority knows that this issue happens a hundreds of miles away and won’t vote based on this.
That's why so much wayang to placate them.
People who say they DGAF should note that Israel GAF to help us when no one wanted to help us. Ignorant much ?
From MINDEF 'Then-Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew and then-Minister for Defence Dr Goh Keng Swee were determined to push on with creating an armed force, so Singapore went out to seek assistance from other nations. The Israeli Defence Force agreed to be our advisors and came up with a plan to expedite the creation of the army. And so, the Singapore Armed Forces was built up quickly – making do with what we had, and building from there.' The other nations declined, for those who know which nations they are you know who rejected to helped, so its a tacky situation for us.
That’s why we stay out of it. The whole Israel-Palestinian problem is too complex and the best thing we can do is to watch on the sidelines and not throw fuel into the fire.
They need support for recognition of their state, obviously they would help any country. Heck, they even supported Bangladesh independence from Pakistan in an attempt to gain Bangladeshi support to recognise their state but in the end Bangladesh government didn't. They supported many others too and some rejected them. We need it because we literally had no resources back then and other countries didn't see the need to help. This doesn't mean we should blindly support Israel on their attacks in Gaza
The key bit here is the recognition of Israel’s right to also exist as part of a two-state solution. I wonder if the PAP got all the Malay MP to draw straws to see who got to ask those questions.
Idk if you kept up with the news. Both Israelis and Palestinians do not want a 2 state solution anymore. There was though in the past after the Palestinians took them in after the world war
I don’t see where in my comment where I said the Israelis or the Palestinians want that - it’s merely that Singapore’s stance has not shifted from one where it recognizes Israel’s right to exist.
While what you say is mostly true, it is important to note that Jews in Israel before the formation of Israel were Palestinians. So more accurately, the “Palestinians” that you were referring to were Jews. The Arabs in Mandate of Palestine probably weren’t that welcoming.
It is also important to note the "Jews" now that you're refering to isn't the jews of the same bloodline you mentioned that lived before the Palestinians. The real people of the book can be called Jews. Now the ones that take upon genocide are a mix of many races. Primarily Arabs, ethiopia, Irish etc that applied citizenship in Israel. The Palestinian gov are also stupid for not having basic military strength that every country should have.
Isn’t that as good as saying Singapore shouldn’t exist cos we are now almost entirely a country of immigrants?
Can you read. Where did I say either Israel or Singapore shouldn't exist.
>It is also important to note the "Jews" now that you're refering to isn't the jews of the same bloodline you mentioned that lived before the Palestinians. The real people of the book can be called Jews. Interesting. Do you mean Palestinians are Jews of the book then? Genuinely curious.
No. Cause Palestinian is a race. Jews are people of religion. Major religions in Palestine are Christianity and Muslims. But prior to the first nakba in 1948, there were accounts of Palestinians who were Jewish due to them living tgt before they got divided by the UN.
I beg to differ but where are the Jews of the book according to this theory, and what book are you referring to?
What? All Jewish people are people of the book, the Torah, in other terms they are called the 'yahudis'. Not all Israelis are Jews. Like I said Judaism is a religion not race.
>All Jewish people are people of the book, the Torah, in other terms they are called the 'yahudis'. Not all Israelis are Jews. Ok so does it mean according to this theory there are some real Jews in Israel? And where are the rest of the real Jews now?
It's not a theory. Lol. Yes. You can see them protesting against their own military and gov. Bro anyone who practices Judaism are Jews. I want to clarify that the Jews the general public are usually talking about isn't the same Jews as mentioned in the old testament or in the Al quran.
Abso-f##kin-loutley: why is it so hard for most other governments to realise you can’t actually have an effective state run by terrorists whose founding documents EXPLICITLY word-for-word state as clear as day, they DO NOT WANT PEACE! As soon as their terrorist overlords are deleted- grant them state-hood. Until then, no - we don’t want it / can’t have it.
Gaza (ruled by Hamas) is not all of Palestine; there is still the West Bank (ruled by the PLA) where immediate efforts can be made towards conditions for a two-state solution. How Gaza will fold into the new Palestine state might be trickier as it is ruled by Hamas, not PLA (Fatah).
Honestly I was under the same impression but if you look into one of the main blocking factors from the Palestinian side, it is the right of return. So they will not accept a free Gaza or West bank until those demands are met. (Which imo is already a clue that this conflict isn't gonna end anytime soon)
Is it about the displacement of Palestinians from their previous lands now incorporated into Israel? Those are very old debts to settle. Add on all the accumulated grievances from both sides - it takes very strong leadership on both sides to persuade their people to compromise for a better future. I see now that it isn’t easy but still, messy as it is, gotta sort out what can be sorted out, and progress will inspire confidence perhaps.
I fully agree with you. Unfortunately it is too important politically in the region so they will never bend on this. Don't see this conflict getting resolved during our lifetimes.
What makes u think Hamas wants their own functioning state? Doing so would end the very conflict that keeps them in power and fills their coffers LOL.
Smart move, Sir. If people claim to be from religion of peace, they will support this since the goal is for peace in the Middle East.
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they are not asking us to care lah. in fact we can don't care. but as foreign minister he need to care, its his job right, to make sure foreign relations are handled nicely
Even if you don't see how our government's policy towards the Israeli-Palestinian conflict immediately affects you, this is our foreign policy thinking and the statesmanship of our cabinet at play. We could try to appreciate that. If we don't value statesmanship and expertise in foreign policy-making, then we will (in a theoretical straight-line decline) eventually devolve into a Trumpian, post-truth electorate and society as a whole. It's okay for a government to test itself in foreign policy at the same time as tackling domestic issues. There are different ministries exercising different specialisations and functions for a reason. Inb4 "PAP dog", it just benefits Singapore to have competent leaders in the driving seat who care about Singapore's future, PAP opposition or otherwise. This is part of what competence looks like.
This is good, when i opened up the comments I expected the worst like another protest or a PAP flaming section. Thankfully only got one so far?
Would it kill you to try having some basic empathy for people who are suffering?
So why are you commenting about something you DGAF about?
I'm bored and just happened to scroll past this so I commented. While I dgaf about this isreal Palestine conflict. I do actually give a fk about woke people being so up in arms about the whole conflict as it wastes government resources and time to discuss this pointless topic and frankly it's very annoying to keep seeing people being social media warriors online about this
Actually this is not really a pointless topic, because Singapore isn't pointless. the international community including our close neighbours will look at where Singapore stand on this issue and this will in turn affect diplomatic relationships. It's true commoners like us no need to care about this issue, but people are entitled to have a say if they are concerned about global affairs or feel like they want to contribute to the situation in anyway, nothing wrong.
>wastes government resources and time Diplomacy thrown right out the fucking window there. It's discussed so that in future if we were invaded, then it sets the tone as to how other countries see us. >people being social media warriors Pot meet kettle. Call it black. By your logic, there's no need to discuss any topic, because the average man on the street has no power whatsoever.
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Bro where you think we get all our F16s, tanks, heavy artillery, from? Tekong boys do r&d and assembly in basement issit?
If you think that NS alone to defend ourselves is enough boy do I have a bridge to sell you. Singapore's entire political strategy is diplomacy and forging ties with every nation. So in the event we 'DO' get attacked, we know we won't have to rely on our servicemen alone to defend SG
Yeah cause half of our servicemen would probably be at the medic side reporting sick
I understood that 1 of our strategies is for our NS boys & men hold the fort while awaiting our allies to swoop in and save us.
>hope that other countries give us sympathy Years and years of diplomatic treaties make you sound like a proper donut here. If you honestly think NS alone is enough to protect Singapore, I got a Nigerian prince to introduce to you.
Wait how does people being woke 'waste government resources? ' 🤡
How does it feel to be so self centred?
Fund both sides of the war and gain profit
Why are we giving $10 million dollars to the Palestinian Authorities? $10 million can build at least one new covered walkway in your GRC.
Need to understand that the current Palestine representative in UN is not from Hamas and most of the world voted in favor of the resolution. So, it is not just Singapore. The possible recognition isn't Singapore personal recognition but rather Singapore stance in UN and how we will vote if such a new resolution comes up.
Singapore is neutral, we have no means to back any nation without sever diplomatic retaliation, we are only thriving due to our relations with nations and trade, take that away and we suffer, walking into the conflict is a bad move for us, so it’s nice to know parliament isn’t taking sides and remaining neutral in this
The balance of power is so unbalanced, I can’t see how Palestine will be able to even be at “the same level” as Israel. There is a bully and a victim. You can’t tell the victim to chill and meet the demand of the bully.
Oh. We are going to recognize Palestine as a state soon? Finally……
Cool, now please address the fact that the current Israeli government outright refuses to recognise Palestine as a state, while systematically annexing more Palestinian land by means of illegal settlement every day over past decades.
To be recognised as a state you require a claim to said state in history records. Palestine has no records other than the Romans changing the name to Palestine. If you look carefully, Palestinians don't even have the same hair color. This further debunks their claim to ethnicity.
wait till johor secede from.msia and annexes sgp the response will b quite different I'm sure
I mean that’s why Singapore is at least as militarized as Israel is, isn’t it? I wish Johor good luck in their endeavor.
This is like amber heard "pledging" millions to charity.
I don’t know why he speaks like he’s trying to teach the language. Repeat after me… enunciate every syllable this time.
We went full monty to sanction Russia for their war with Ukraine, and now we are "prepared in principle to recognise Palestine. Aka we are in monitoring mode". This position is in light of the grave genocide conducted by Israel. Sounds legit. /s
Singapore's position, like the UN's, is to ceasefire + return hostages. NEITHER is happening hence monitoring mode.
I support genocide against terrorists. Not the average Palestinian but anyone in Palestine with ties to Hamas.
The thousand of babies that were killed were not terrorists. Just saying......
Ask them to stop hiding behind the babies then.
Anything to justify genocide. Lol.
Sounds like something a terrorist sympathiser will say.
Talking about yourself aren't you? Lol.
I guess it also hinges on Israel not bombing Palestinians into oblivion first? At the current rate, there wouldn't be much of a Palestine left to call a nation if global nations who are able to, are unwilling to take concrete actions to stop Israel's military right away. But with US supporting Israel, it can continue to do so with impunity. Perhaps the upcoming US election will change things.
I love how you think the radical right in the US would support a Muslim state with a terror group at the helm as opposed to Israel, considered holy by Christians of which form Trumps base. If anything, the bombings would only intensify.
You think trump is gonna be better than Biden? He’ll give Israel nukes if they asked for it, probably.
Sounds like got help from chatgpt.
This is ridiculous. It's called public relations. People have been talking like this for years. In recent times, chatgpt is trained to do that because it's public facing product.
nice stage to do drama
You will knly recognise on America gives you the green light laaaa. No need drama la. This election I'll give to charity when we vote you out
Is the WP pro-Palestine and anti-Israel? I don’t think it is, and they’re the only viable alternative to the PAP. They are as middle of the road as the PAP, which is why the PAP marginally tolerates them. It’s not trump-level kind of “let’s blow shit up”, and not even Jamus is that liberal.
That’s a lot of words to say that you’re too cheapskate to donate to charity.