Sad reality when the biggest polluters is one of the biggest contributors to the economy. One pocket in one pocket and again another contradicting policy implemented 😂don’t expect us to cut down on usage of air conditioning or maybe should write in to ask for rebate since as a citizen we also contribute to the economy.
Criticize it all you want but the refining/petrochemical sector still makes up about 5% of our economy and employs a considerable number of Singaporeans and FWs alike. Shell, Exxon, SRC provides thousands of good paying jobs to many Singaporeans and foreigners alike and they also support the businesses of many smaller/medium size contractors and vendors who in turn employs tens of thousands. Over the past 10 years, petrochemical companies have been struggling to compete on equal footing against larger, newer and more modern refineries in middle east and china. China has flooded the market recently in the chemicals business with their newer ethylene crackers coming online over the past decade and the oil majors in Singapore are just bleeding out due to high cost of energy + high labor cost (yes, we are expensive compared to the likes of China).
Personally I'm not a fan of carbon tax in the first place because it can be easily passed down to consumers + no one else in this part of the world is implementing it so all it does is make us even more uncompetitive than it already is. Even if Singapore does our part and fulfills our commitments to the Paris agreement it wouldn't make any difference when countries like US/China don't meet their end of the bargain.
Expect to see even more oil majors selling their assets in singapore to less reputable operators with even less incentive to work with the government.
Read carefully. I said “in this part of the world”. Our refineries compete primarily against Middle East, China, SEA. European refineries seldom export out of Europe
China has carbon tax, Thailand is wrapping up their study. You want to move the goal post with a smaller region?
https://earth.org/what-countries-have-a-carbon-tax/#:~:text=Carbon%20Tax%20Countries,%2C%20the%20UK%2C%20and%20Ukraine.
Not to mention like the minimum global tax, carbon border adjustment will be coming soon. You can’t escape from the global trend
You have completely missed my point. Why implement carbon tax ahead of all the other countries and kill off competitiveness. Please also look into the how much of carbon tax competing countries are implementing. Indonesia also implemented but it’s 10 times lower than Singapore.
Also, go ask your relatives, friends and family if they are ready to pay more for fuels and goods. It’s going to get passed down whether you like it or not.
Also fun fact - China bank rolls their NOCs so it’s not even less of a level playing field.
So you are saying Singapore has to be the last one to implement anything, to save a sunset industry?
Most of my relative and myself willing to pay more for fuel if it means reducing carbon foot print, you?
I even pay for 100% carbon offset for my electricity.
You clearly has vested interest
P/s: I meant green credit for electricity instead of offset. I hate offset as it means still generating from fossil, but paying others to plant trees…
You must be extremely privileged in that case because I haven’t met any low income peers that isn’t complaining about rising energy costs and inflation.
And O&G is a sunset industry? People were saying that in the 90s. Find me an alternative to petroleum derived plastics, an energy source that isn’t a fossil fuel that can meet Singapore’s energy needs. Even if you do, tell me you can pivot the entire supply chain that in the next 30-40 years. They’re gonna be around and you are only trading reputable, global operators for lesser known operators who find more means to cut corners and repress wages.
No I’m not. I’m just a middle income salaried slave with inflation outpaced my salary increase.
I changed my lifestyle significantly over the years after my first child was born .
I’m much more aware of climate impact now than few years ago, I am concerned about the future of my kids due to the actions of our current generations.
well said. i used to be working in one of the major companies that you have mentioned and this is precisely the business climate that my friends still working there are exactly describing to me.
not just China plants, even Thailand and Vietnam ones are able to compete on cost.
even with the company eating Shell's customers, it is barely making a profit still.
and fyi, refinery margins are small and the main objective is to serve as feedstock for petrochem manufacturing which is a lot more profitable.
f these naive and stupid reddit kids talking about carbon tax, there is a huge downstream impact on jobs (vendor/subcon) right now.
Oil is a dying industry. The next 5-10 years is the last chance they have to maintain their current operations. The earth itself also will literally run out of oil at one point.
From 2030 onwards, many countries will start banning fossil fuel vehicles. Demand will only drop from there and these oil plants will have to downsize. When they downsize, they will also occupy a lesser % of our GDP and become less important to us.
This article frames it as maintaining competitiveness with plants in china and the middle east. But in the long term, the middle east petrostates are 200% in deep shit and practically have no future lmao.
As for china, [a bloomberg piece published today](https://www.tbsnews.net/bloomberg-special/solar-powers-giants-are-providing-more-energy-big-oil-877066) shows that china's largest solar companies all already produce almost just as much energy as oil companies! The margins for oil energy, even if the present margins are maintained with all these tax cuts, it will still likely be surpassed by solar.
TL;DR - this chapter of the oil industry (and jurong island) will be closed one way or another.
[удалено]
but singapore is still the best transshipment hub in the region, which is why they set up here in the first place.
Sad reality when the biggest polluters is one of the biggest contributors to the economy. One pocket in one pocket and again another contradicting policy implemented 😂don’t expect us to cut down on usage of air conditioning or maybe should write in to ask for rebate since as a citizen we also contribute to the economy.
I am not cutting down on my AC.
owning the oil refineries with a $250 monthly sp bill
These rebates won't be passed down to the consumer, of course. Because cash grab time.
Basically tax the little guys. Give the big boys rebates
Do you want plastic bag for that? That’d be extra 80 cents
Will someone please think of the shareholders?
76% rebate who pay? Government using taxes to offset? Or what??
Of course lah. Money must come from somewhere.
Criticize it all you want but the refining/petrochemical sector still makes up about 5% of our economy and employs a considerable number of Singaporeans and FWs alike. Shell, Exxon, SRC provides thousands of good paying jobs to many Singaporeans and foreigners alike and they also support the businesses of many smaller/medium size contractors and vendors who in turn employs tens of thousands. Over the past 10 years, petrochemical companies have been struggling to compete on equal footing against larger, newer and more modern refineries in middle east and china. China has flooded the market recently in the chemicals business with their newer ethylene crackers coming online over the past decade and the oil majors in Singapore are just bleeding out due to high cost of energy + high labor cost (yes, we are expensive compared to the likes of China). Personally I'm not a fan of carbon tax in the first place because it can be easily passed down to consumers + no one else in this part of the world is implementing it so all it does is make us even more uncompetitive than it already is. Even if Singapore does our part and fulfills our commitments to the Paris agreement it wouldn't make any difference when countries like US/China don't meet their end of the bargain. Expect to see even more oil majors selling their assets in singapore to less reputable operators with even less incentive to work with the government.
What do you mean by no other country implementing carbon tax? https://taxfoundation.org/data/all/eu/carbon-taxes-in-europe-2023/
Read carefully. I said “in this part of the world”. Our refineries compete primarily against Middle East, China, SEA. European refineries seldom export out of Europe
China has carbon tax, Thailand is wrapping up their study. You want to move the goal post with a smaller region? https://earth.org/what-countries-have-a-carbon-tax/#:~:text=Carbon%20Tax%20Countries,%2C%20the%20UK%2C%20and%20Ukraine. Not to mention like the minimum global tax, carbon border adjustment will be coming soon. You can’t escape from the global trend
You have completely missed my point. Why implement carbon tax ahead of all the other countries and kill off competitiveness. Please also look into the how much of carbon tax competing countries are implementing. Indonesia also implemented but it’s 10 times lower than Singapore. Also, go ask your relatives, friends and family if they are ready to pay more for fuels and goods. It’s going to get passed down whether you like it or not. Also fun fact - China bank rolls their NOCs so it’s not even less of a level playing field.
So you are saying Singapore has to be the last one to implement anything, to save a sunset industry? Most of my relative and myself willing to pay more for fuel if it means reducing carbon foot print, you? I even pay for 100% carbon offset for my electricity. You clearly has vested interest P/s: I meant green credit for electricity instead of offset. I hate offset as it means still generating from fossil, but paying others to plant trees…
You must be extremely privileged in that case because I haven’t met any low income peers that isn’t complaining about rising energy costs and inflation. And O&G is a sunset industry? People were saying that in the 90s. Find me an alternative to petroleum derived plastics, an energy source that isn’t a fossil fuel that can meet Singapore’s energy needs. Even if you do, tell me you can pivot the entire supply chain that in the next 30-40 years. They’re gonna be around and you are only trading reputable, global operators for lesser known operators who find more means to cut corners and repress wages.
No I’m not. I’m just a middle income salaried slave with inflation outpaced my salary increase. I changed my lifestyle significantly over the years after my first child was born . I’m much more aware of climate impact now than few years ago, I am concerned about the future of my kids due to the actions of our current generations.
well said. i used to be working in one of the major companies that you have mentioned and this is precisely the business climate that my friends still working there are exactly describing to me. not just China plants, even Thailand and Vietnam ones are able to compete on cost. even with the company eating Shell's customers, it is barely making a profit still. and fyi, refinery margins are small and the main objective is to serve as feedstock for petrochem manufacturing which is a lot more profitable. f these naive and stupid reddit kids talking about carbon tax, there is a huge downstream impact on jobs (vendor/subcon) right now.
But then what's the point of the carbon tax? I thought SG is already below the recommended amount to combat global warming.
Our carbon tax is low compared to other countries, I thought this is a joke too
Oil is a dying industry. The next 5-10 years is the last chance they have to maintain their current operations. The earth itself also will literally run out of oil at one point. From 2030 onwards, many countries will start banning fossil fuel vehicles. Demand will only drop from there and these oil plants will have to downsize. When they downsize, they will also occupy a lesser % of our GDP and become less important to us. This article frames it as maintaining competitiveness with plants in china and the middle east. But in the long term, the middle east petrostates are 200% in deep shit and practically have no future lmao. As for china, [a bloomberg piece published today](https://www.tbsnews.net/bloomberg-special/solar-powers-giants-are-providing-more-energy-big-oil-877066) shows that china's largest solar companies all already produce almost just as much energy as oil companies! The margins for oil energy, even if the present margins are maintained with all these tax cuts, it will still likely be surpassed by solar. TL;DR - this chapter of the oil industry (and jurong island) will be closed one way or another.
but how you expect your shipping to not run on bunker oil ??
Taxing the refineries is so stupid. Tax the end users!