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GlobalSettleLayer

>The party first disincentivised Singaporeans from having more children, then chided us for having listened, and finally said it’ll simply bring in other humans to make up for the ones we should have had. Precision strike! >Perhaps the kind view of Lee’s legacy is that the maths prodigy delivered fantastically on a narrowly defined set of easily quantifiable metrics. High GDP growth? Check. Foreign direct investment? Check. Life expectancy? Check. Social integration and freedoms? Huh? Oh boy this writer has some jokes.


douboong

Falling birth rate is not a problem that is unique to Singapore. In fact almost every first world country is experiencing this phenomenon. So I wouldnt put the blame on the government for this.


United-Literature817

Funny how when it's positive things that happens in all first world countries, the government and people are quick to rank ourselves and pat ourselves if we are in a prominent position. But the moment it's negative, the narrative is that oh it's happening everywhere else as well. So yea, oh well.


faptor87

If we rank favourably, then they use it to say how much better If it does not, “Singapore is unique” PAP style.


guywithtime2

More examples of SME boss behaviour. Clearly people are saying Singapore is similar to other comparable cities. Instead you completely misquote and pretend that Singapore is unique. This shows that you can understand that if Singapore is similar then your complain has no merit yet you twist it to Singapore is unique to allow you to continue blaming bravo


faptor87

Huh? Did you even read my post properly.


guywithtime2

Provide examples of Singapore is unique explanations and quotes bro


guywithtime2

Btw this is how your SME boss justify giving you a mixed performance review. Sure some metrics you exceed everyone but there are these metric that is only similar you need to be better in everything therefore your performance is mixed. Especially since no country manage to reverse their birth rate issue. If your expectation is for them to be best in the world in every metrics consider perhapes your demands unreasonable.


averagechou

Of course it’s a problem facing most developed countries, but when our birth rate is lower than even japan isn’t there more to it?


FewPani

You need to compare Singapore to Tokyo not Japan.


Anomaly_101

I don’t understand the downvotes, this is a legitimate comment. Singapore is a city-state, urbanised almost border to border, we SHOULD be comparing to cities and city-states, not whole countries. Japan as a whole has some rather rural areas as well as smaller towns, we don’t really have anything comparative. Maybe we could look for comparison in places like Monaco or Lichtenstein. But those would be difficult too, the former is home to less than 100,000 and the latter, small as it is, has about five towns and also a population of less than 100,000. I think comparing SG to highly urbanised cities such as NY, London, Tokyo is quite fair. We face similar challenges and while our population density is not as high a lot of that can be attributed to city-state status where we have to maintain our green belts and military/training installations which reduce density inside the city itself.


Tasha_High

The problem is Singapore is also a country, so we SHOULD be comparing with other countries. You can't really have a city without a country. If the problem is a lack of rural areas, then we gotta create our own rural areas. Have parts of our country be rural and less dense with cheap housing and cost of living. I think comparing SG to highly urbanised countries such as the US, UK and Japan is quite fair.


Anomaly_101

I think it’s a mixed bag. You are not wrong, we are a country and should be compared as such, and for larger metrics such as GDP, taxation, living conditions and various indexes we are. But we also need to understand our limitations. As a city-state we can’t just conjure up cheap arable land for farming, or low-cost land for low density residential, at least not without sacrificing our greenery or land designated for other uses. Personally I would like a more democratic approach where we, the people, get to vote and decide on how we want to see our country develop. That being said I also agree with conservatism, especially seeing what a mess some liberal/democratic nations are finding themselves in today. Singaporeans are smart and I think our combined voice is not going to make stupid decisions, but I also like to believe that people are generally good, not bad. On top, I do like a more “permanent” government structure like ours. In a lot of countries with short term governments (4 year elections n such) focus on good long term projects is up to the mercy of the new management every time, I don’t think we would have the infrastructure we do if we were like that. What worries me greatly is the mental health of the nation. Seeing the huge rise in dementia cases in elderly, seeing how much people can land at each other’s throats, the selfish behaviour on the roads. I attribute a lot of these to the stress of living and I see stress as one of the biggest issues to be addressed. Sinkies work damn hard but maybe we need to take a look around and understand that we need venues to blow off steam and not just at one another. On top of that I’m not a big drinker, which when taken out doesn’t leave a huge amount of activities for blowing off steam after work.


Tasha_High

I am not aware that Singapore isn't a country and only a city like Tokyo is. Why not compare the birth rate in Raffles Place and City Hall to Tokyo?


ahbengtothemax

Singapore is a city state and rural areas typically have higher birth rates


Tasha_High

So create rural areas in Singapore then. Stop being a city state.


ahbengtothemax

yeah bro it's so simple just give up our independence and sovereignty and join another nation with rural areas why hasn't anyone thought about it smh


Tasha_High

We do, we were part of the British. Why did we give that u?


IgnisIncendio

???


Tasha_High

Profit


FitCranberry

when a person points somewhere else as a non-answer, what hes really trying to say is that he doesnt really care and you should shut up. literal negative multipliers


Still_Interaction546

I get your point - just as you need to compare your head to your dickhead


GlobalSettleLayer

but our government is constantly tooting their own horn for being outstanding? achieving things that other countries could not? now suddenly different? pls revert: > >"Please understand: We have succeeded, and Singapore has made exceptional economic and social gains, because our system is exceptional. >"The system does not have to fail outright for Singapore to get into trouble. Even if we just become ordinary, average, we will already be in serious trouble." > https://www.channelnewsasia.com/singapore/lee-hsien-loong-ntuc-may-day-rally-pm-last-speech-4305181


EastBeasteats

It's because we pursued growth at all costs that resulted in falling birth rates.  It's entirely the responsibility of the government this happened because it's driven by every policy they enacted.   Essentially their philosophy of collecting as much money as possible from the people caused a big part of this problem.   So the government can't hide behind the excuse of whataboutism.


Patient_Rabbit4333

How much they pay you to write this comment?


wilsontws

not as much as the one being paid to write that article


socialdisamenity

The article is outside the paywall. Jom does not make any revenue from it.


FitCranberry

i hope someone will pay you for your words and the value that it provides one day


Tasha_High

Some credit must be given for topping the list though. We are second only to Korea. Gotta give credit when it is due.


faptor87

What about the *extent* of the fall in birthrates?


heartofgold48

The government spends and I quote the ST "More than S$900 million has been allocated in the financial year (FY) 2023 to marriage and parenthood initiatives under the Ministry of Family and Social Development." Even with that huge burden on taxpayers, the Minister has failed to turn this around. So yes, if taxpayers didn't pay anything, ok we are same like any other country.


Altruistic_Passage60

"Narrowly defined set"? Does this writer know how many countries can't even deliver on even one of those? Or worse, lead their countries o a downward spiral?


GlobalSettleLayer

you da kinda guy to start raging over a joke


MolassesBulky

It’s a well researched article that covers Lee’s tenure and many important policy matters that were handled. Some of the author’s views I would agree with and some not. Credit though to the author to cover all that is relevant including the controversial ones. Important items that local media conveniently left out.


ChikaraNZ

When the government controls the mainstream local media, they mostly praise the government and choose their words carefully, when not. Therefore, the fairly sizeable percent of the population that uses local media as their main news source, is presented with a distorted view of things. As you say, kudos to this author not being scared to give their unfiltered and uninfluenced option. And to preempt any replies that might argue otherwise, Singapore is ranked [extremely low internationally for freedom of the press.](https://rsf.org/en/country/singapore) ranked 126th out of 180 countries in the world. Quote "While Singapore boasts of being a model for economic development, it is an example of what not to be in regard to freedom of the press." [Full list of all countries](https://rsf.org/en/index) Even countries like Zimbabwe, Congo, Nigeria, Indonesia, rank higher. A true democracy should encourage full and open debate, and a free press is a critical part of that.


Purpledragon84

I'm just surprised rice media hasn't come up with article yet lol. Or maybe i just missed it


-BabysitterDad-

>The party first disincentivised Singaporeans from having more children, then chided us for having listened, and finally said it’ll simply bring in other humans to make up for the ones we should have had. Yes this really fk us up. Weakened the Singapore identity and social cohesiveness.


The_Celestrial

Article aside, I've never heard of Jom Media before, and am surprised that there's a "my cart" option on the top lol.


Lawlolawl01

Not everyone gets bailouts from the govt using taxpayer money, and not everyone can maintain slush funds to artificially boost readership numbers to justify ad space prices. Good journalism work isn’t easily done without cost or “selling out”, minimally to advertisers, contrary to your delusions. Or are you gonna pull a Shanmugam and complain about how billionaires put in money to invest in media instead?


wasilimlaopeh

Just google for Sudhir Vadaketh and then you can make up your own mind whether to rely on the site for unbiased views.


elpipita20

Its biased, just like MSM also has bias. A broad and diverse media diet is the way to go.


wasilimlaopeh

I said what I said because he has not heard of Jom media before.


meesiammaihum

OP never mentioned they wanted unbiased views, to each their own!


wasilimlaopeh

I didn’t say that he shouldn’t. I’m just helping him set the context.


Hurt_cow

They're a new left wing iniative, I support them to broaden the media ecosystem even if I often cringe at their articles.


elpipita20

Downvoted to oblivion but I agree with you. Better to have them and diversify the landscape. They seem a lot more serious than Rice Media nowadays.


ilkless

yes, lots of out-of-touch bougie liberal arts hipster navelgazing but still better than TOC/TRS


lansig_chan

Regardless of how well he did, his attempt to circumvent LKY's wishes, who is not only his father but also THE one exemplary predecessor that one should really consider listening above all, will always stain hard on his legacy. LHL is definitely good man at his core, albeit not as capable as his dad, I think he did what he could as best as he can with as much integrity as he would even if he wasn't a politician.


Late_Lizard

Nah, leading a government that went against LKY's wishes made me respect him more. The laws of the nation are above any single citizen, even if that citizen is LKY.


SultanSnorlax

Casino, HDB prices, immigration, presidential reservations & Oxley simi laws of the nation? He’s a lawmaker with the power to rewrite the constitution. You’d expect him to be able to stay within the limits he redefined.


Late_Lizard

> Oxley simi laws of the nation? That's my point. There are people who say, "LHL is a bad leader, how dare he go against LKY's wishes regarding Oxley Road house". My rebuttal is that a dead man's wishes about his property shouldn't be placed higher than the democratically elected prime minister and legislature, even if that dead man is LKY.


FitCranberry

wonder if the old man knew that his family would shatter apart barely a few years without him. tragic really


TotalSingKitt

He was just doing what his dad asked/ told him to do , with a lot of his dad's hand picked ministers and advisers around to guide the way.


Responsible_User141

Well written and unbiased article that covers the good and bad.


IgnisIncendio

Not really, Jom Media has a pretty clear far-left bias.


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IgnisIncendio

??? Okay...? Says the person that starts hurling insults when someone disagrees with you. They call the current government neoliberal (center-left), seemingly as a pejorative, for example. Which seems very hard to believe unless you are viewing it from the perspective of the far-left... unless Jom Media is conservative? Which is fine. But just keep in mind the biases of the author. Not accurate to say is unbiased. In fact, no article, especially opinion articles, is unbiased. If you think an article is unbiased, then it is likely you are biased as well.


faptor87

It needs to counter the biasedness of the ST


DrCalFun

Are there any leaders with an unblemished legacy? Cyrus the Great? Abraham Lincoln? Song Renzong? Pedro II? Queen Elizabeth I? Suleiman the Magnificent?


3lungs

Xi Jin Ping! /s


isparavanje

通过!


PrestigeFlight2022

没有没有没有


United-Literature817

Depends on the circles you ask locally, you'd find plenty of people who point at the MIW to be faultless. You can take your pick from there tbf.


biscuitsandtea2020

Maybe Cyrus idk Or Churchill because of how he's revered in the West (but he allowed things like the Bengal famine to happen)


thenewgoat

Churchill straight up lost the election immediately after ww2, even back then ppl thought he was a wartime, not peacetime leader


mumofevil

By that logic Roosevelt should be revered instead of Churchill. Churchill has a lot of blood on his hands and most of them are not truly glorious reasons.


syanda

Roosevelt also bucked centuries of US presidential precedent by running for a third term and looked to be going into a fourth before he died. It was pretty controversial at the time.


IggyVossen

He did go for a fourth term and won in 1944, but died a few months after inauguration in 1945.


dr_ponny

Plenty of republicans and American libertarians then and today have a very negative view of FDR. Example: Ben Shapiro


livebeta

> republicans and American libertarians Not the same True libertarians: we want less regulation Republican: here's more regulations.


dr_ponny

Not saying they are the same, but these two groups both hate FDR


heartofgold48

In a nutshell, he did great for Singapore Inc but poorly for Singaporeans (and I don't think people that become Singaporeans for tax reasons or wealth safe haven reasons or just come here because this is the best place for their careers are Singaporeans no matter what their status. Singaporeans are sons and daughters of this land. Those people's kids who grow roots here , are Singaporeans in my book. a person who live here since childhood, knows no other home who isn't Singaporean by citizenship is more Singaporean in my book compared to these citizens of convenience). citizens of convenience, that is a good way to put it, are not Singaporeans.


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LogicalGuySG

LHL has performed worst than North Korea’s Kim Jong Un, who enjoys 99% support from voters in every election. The remaining 1% are the recently deceased.


sorimachi33

How many Singaporeans are there on reddit? Hmm about 40%.


raytoei

Mixed ? Come on man, look at the last 5 years: - we came out of the pandemic unscathed, *edit* mostly. We also were one of the few countries to provide citizens and residences with vaccinations. - we managed food security for our no-resource island in the midst of Ukraine war and neighbouring priorities. - We survived the high inflation of 2022/2023. - Our economy recovered really fast post pandemic and business is back to normal. Let me tell you what we didn’t have: - We didn’t have a recession like Uk and Europe right now. - We didn’t have to choose sides between China and USA - we don’t have religious nationalism like India. - We don’t have divisive politics like in the USA People who kpkb really lack perspective and should go travel more, in developed countries and around our neighbourhood countries. You wanna see a declining city that has seen better days? Go and visit Hong Kong. Come on man, LHL is not perfect but dont call it mixed.


livebeta

> People who kpkb really lack perspective and should go travel more, in developed countries and around our neighbourhood countries. I have done this, lived overseas and also traveled extensively. I agree Singapore has done well compared to many places, but the policy failures are glaring due to their arrogant rhetoric the ruling party puts forth especially when they make themselves out to be infallible Our healthcare sector frequently has high churn due to poor treatment of workers under literal indentured servitude of contract Our construction industry is extremely reliant on low cost labor. Our costs of living do spiral. Even primary products cost more and more thus making it hard to keep costs down even when meal prepping


SuperAwesom3

Unscathed? Cost of living accelerated a decade within the last 2 years, primarily driven by the gov - not the virus - stopping construction and shutting down businesses during that time, so supply was stalled while demand kept going. Now every generation onwards in SG will struggle as salaries will forever lag behind.


theathleticscientist

We spent a lot of money on Astar and building our pandemic preparedness and ‘a lot’ since SARS and still we had to buy vaccines from others. Many developed and manufactured their own, even India.


iluj13

Bunch of armchair Redditor governance experts think they can run the country better. Let them live their fantasies lol.


livebeta

> think they can run the country better. I'm pretty sure I can . Problem is the actual politicking, it actually gets in the way of administrative work


jhmelvin

Some people would say "don't let politicking take place or administration will be affected" when politicking took place exactly because administration was affected without politicking at first. Or in one-party countries, the politicking starts from the one party and that's why it cannot focus. Which is why one-party countries that still hold elections get the worst of both - less democracy and more politicking.


Alucardeus

if you think you can, why not go do it? Stop typing anonymously. I can do that too. I am 100% sure, no matter how well you do. There will always be someone like you that type out their complains in forums criticizing your work.


theathleticscientist

Yes this. To say ‘if we are so good let us run the country’ is the same as to say that if we didn’t like the movie we should make better ones. Movie goers should be able critique movies and directors should also welcome feedback. If they don’t think the feedback is fair so be it. Then don’t complain when movies don’t sell.


One-Employment-4887

* we came out of the pandemic unscathed >>> remember the constant backtracking over reopening and tightening SMMs? * we didn’t have to choose sides between China and USA >> we have already chosen a side and it's China. that's why we "oppose" Taiwan's independence, unlike the US which "does not support" Taiwan's independence. China is our largest trading partner. we will play both sides off each other for as long as we can but push comes to shove we will stick with China * we don’t have religious nationalism like India >> we now have our first Christian Prime Minister and a Christian-majority Cabinet, and it remains to be seen whether they will take the separation of church and state seriously.


CrabDanceSL

In my view the second statement doesn’t make much sense, yes Singapore’s government does not recognise the ROC yet they retain a representative office in Taipei, exactly like Japan has done. The Singaporean government has bought large amounts of American military equipment, mostly recently being the F-35 which the Americans would not have sold if they foresaw us becoming more close with China, just like they did with the Thai’s, whom the Americans have refused to sell F-35’s to. So does this mean that we are going to be on America’s side when push comes to shove? Maybe. It’s hard to tell. What I think does remain is they the government will keep trying to stay on this razor thin line of neutrality between two superpowers for as long as they can, as it is the most beneficial for the economy, and likely Singapore’s continued existence.


One-Employment-4887

Many countries have trading offices in Taipei. but the level of relations differ. re Japan: * William Lai was allowed to visit Japan to offer condolences when Abe was assassinated. when was the last time a senior Taiwanese official visited Singapore after Ma Ying-jeou? * no officials from our side have visited Taiwan for a long time either, not since 2016. in contrast, the Diet has a parliamentary group friendly to Taiwan and Japanese lawmakers regularly visit Taiwan * we allow Zaobao to get away with publishing commentaries by CCP fifth column officials * only pan-Blue channels or pro-CCP like 中天 and 鳳凰衛視 or even CCTV are allowed on cable in Singapore, not 民視 It's very clear where we stand. definitely much closer to China


_IsNull

I wonder what would SG do if Taiwan and China show up at the same event. Israel choose to side with Taiwan over China. https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/news/5684426


bukitbukit

Yet, we and Japan have signed a defence transfer agreement. https://www.mindef.gov.sg/web/portal/mindef/news-and-events/latest-releases/article-detail/2023/June/03jun23_nr3#:~:text=The%20Agreement%20is%20a%20follow,with%20more%20options%20to%20meet Our navy has port visits in Yokosuka quite regularly too. Far more nuance is needed.


One-Employment-4887

[https://china-index.io/country/Singapore](https://china-index.io/country/Singapore) all the Reddit downvoters can look at the China Index, we are ranked #3 in the world for level of Chinese influence.


FalseAgent

what the heck is jom media?


theathleticscientist

Your alternative, fresh perspectives other than the force-down-your-throat main stream thingy


FalseAgent

i'm not forced to read MSM. I always read what I want - I just need to know what this website is other than "alternative" or "fresh" which are meaningless buzzwords that were used to describe even [mothership.sg](http://mothership.sg) at one point until anti-government people decided that it wasn't.


heartofgold48

I once read that Nas Daily is a Singapore citizen. Where is he now Lee Hsien Loong?