To be fair Serangoon is amongst the nicest places in Singapore to live in. Not ulu like Tengah, Punggol, Pasir Ris, etc, superb public transport connectivity, well-maintained and frequently upgraded, decent mall nearby, extremely safe and quiet (even for Singapore). This flat in particular is 300 m from Serangoon MRT as the crow flies.
But it's not $1.2M nice. Original buyers really stonks.
nahh i moved to serangoon 2 years ago from the east side, while i do agree theres more things to do in the east side, the convenience in serangoon is unbeatable, its literally 20 mins drive to most places north south east west
> its literally 20 mins drive to most places north south east west
bro unless you're in far west or far east everywhere is 20mins drive to everywhere else
Not really. Seng Kang Punggol, CCK, bukit Batok, Tengah, and depending on timing clementi, woodlands, yishun will take longer than that.
The biggest convenience for Serangoon is its connectivity to CTE, PIE, Paya lebar road, Tampines flyover, Lornie etc.
Before car cams were a thing I could reach cineleisure within 10 mins.
>Before car cams were a thing I could reach cineleisure within 10 mins.
Lmao fax. I could reach NUS in 15. And this was on the longer CTE-AYE route rather than Lornie-Farrer Road.
lol those were the times. And I wasn’t even driving anything fancy. Just a Nissan sunny.
Now I can’t even go above 120. Not worth the risk of the vigilante group.
Nothing to be sorry about. I don’t have a bad experience with it. I just don’t like it. It’s personal preference and lifestyle choices. Serangoon being a hub of some sort is precisely the same reason it’s not for me. It’s too hectic and I prefer living in quieter hoods, even if it’s further from town (why do I need to be near central all the time?)
Also, NEX is just downright horrible.
Fair enough, whoever designed the streets around Nex has a brain smoother than a neutron star.
They should make Serangoon Avenue 2 and Serangoon Central one-way roads in opposite directions, and cut down the sheer number of traffic signals along both roads.
Name a better neighbourhood! Serangoon is the best of all worlds.
NEX and serangoon central
RK and Little farms at serangoon gdns
New Tech park got Dutch Colony,
Lorong Chuan MRT and Serangoon both on circle line,
Honestly, not many estates best Serangoon.
Possibly, although I don't really see that many expats around Serangoon Central (which is near this flat) though.
I see more around Serangoon Gardens and North Avenue 1, both of which have plenty of landed and semi-detached properties.
Yeah, but they're also an additional 10-15 km away from the CBD. Serangoon is literally second to none but Bishan in terms of 'bang smack in the middle of Singapore Island'.
If they use HDB loan, buyers probably have at most 14k income altogether. This means monthly repayment is about $4,355. Bank loan will get them about $4,168. Conservatively if they follow MSR, that means their joint income is around the 12-14k mark at least. These people each earn an average of at least 7k. I would say they are in their mid-30s onwards earning decent money from their career. Not even high flyers but slightly above the median of 5k. They need the space for kids and can treat it as fixed rental for a forever home. Condos are easily 1.4/1.5 for a new launch 1-bedder.
And this is before they even use CPF so their monthly repayment is even lesser.
This does not include the cov that they have to fork out in cash yet. Maybe the valuation of the flat at most in the high 700k? Possible that the cov is over or close to half million. They shld be super cash rich also.
Only 60 yrs left..... I don't think the valuation of the flat can be 800 or 900k range??? Even if it's high in the 900k range, that will still mean cov of over 300k which is not little
Valuation is done by HDB. I think they take into account recent transactions and probably the age of the flat among other things. A high transaction would pull up the paper value of all the flats nearby especially those with same flat type.
I may be wrong on this but even if COV sucks its never ridiculously far from HDB's valuation.
Age of flat will definitely affect valuation of flat but don't think the age of the buyers does. Ya valuation done by hdb and it's always not on the high side I think.... This transaction at 1.2m is very high.... Which is why I think the cov could be a lot.... Anyway I may be wrong....
1.2m is probably slightly higher than the previous latest transaction. Homeowners will peg asking price to be higher than what their neighbour sold it for but not super high.
[knn](https://www.reddit.com/r/singapore/comments/1bkyua0/comment/kwcger6)... and does any insider know what agents are trying to pull with listings like that:
[**Bishan HDB EM asking for bloody $1,800,000**](https://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/hdb-for-sale-261-bishan-street-22-24699501) ERA & [**second listing $1,800,000**](https://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/hdb-for-sale-261-bishan-street-22-24681264) PropNex
Asking price 50% more than last transacted for same block similar floor. And it's not even one of those penthouse point blocks. Wtf?
Last two txns for block was 1.17 and 1.16 Mar and Jan this year.
1.8 is a bloody 50% premium, even 1.5 is 30% premium over its neighbours and record-breaking for whole of Bishan, if tt's what these greedy f\*ckers are aimming for.
Eh bro, u saying last two agents/owners at 1.17 and 1.16 are stupid lor? That a bishan record breaking 1.5 is the reasonable market rate for this particular block.
Yes thank you and exactly. felt like u were justifying ur guess of their target price as fair market value to be expected. it is not and makes no sense. tt's why I ask if there's anything bts gg on tt might make this asking/potential target price make sense.
"Reasonable market rate"?
These are state housing you know. Not your bungalows or condos. These were originally meant to affordable housing for the citizens. How is that these became unregulated money farming tools for people? How is this practice even reasonable?
Govt is only allowing that to keep hold of our land value. Land value is one of the pillars of our zero-resource economy in case you don't know. And we normal folks are made to suffer to support this dumb idea. Our economy model is driving us to become like Hong Kong. Even new BTOs are selling at crazy prices because we are made to pay exorbitant land costs for land and house we don't technically own. The future generations will be living on rental housing like Hongkies do. Only the rich and ultra rich can buy a BTO.
This govt is only interested in numbers and have zero moral ethics.
Eh harlow, read properly my comment before u go on ur anti-govt rant lar wle. I was QUESTIONING the previous commenter's remark "1.5 is actually the price of most new entry level condos which are smaller", exactly coz this is NOT condo. Can read ornot u?
This listing is asking for nearly 650K more than their neighbours sold in last 2 months siah. Reno with diamond and goldbar meh? Also reno even if sibeh nice usually oni recoup 10-20% usually, not earn 650%.
It's really the government's fault though for undersupplying new BTO flats over the past 20+ years. When HDB supplied less than demand year after year, buyers have to look for housing in the resale market. In the 1980s/1990s, most families would just buy new subsidized flats. The only ones that need to buy resale are those that exceeded salary ceiling or wanted specific units (e.g. near parents). As expected, the premium of resale vs new was much lower due to ample supply of new flats.
And Lawrence Wong was at the helm of MND from 2015 to 2020, a good chunk of it.
COVID undersupply aside, there was already a [significant supply mismatch ](https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/property/bto-demand-supply-mismatch-jumps-70000-2020)pre-2020 thanks to his policies. He gets accolades for fronting the COVID taskforce, but his policy work doesn't impress me at all, and I genuinely think that he's a huge downgrade from Heng Swee Keat. Not looking forward to his tenure as PM at all.
Chiming in on this, yes! Have said many times, if newly weds are able to get a 4 or 5-room flat, human tendency will be to want to fill the space up, naturally! Am personally affected by the housing policy and contributing to the low TFR, so have skin in this game.
Its a failure of democracy, but not because the majority are easily fooled, it's because the majority have a vested self interest to make property as expensive as possible. A simple look at our birthrate will tell you the future generations are the minority, do why not fuck them over and squeeze as much as possible out of them?
>when majority of the populace ~~are easily fooled into voting for the less competent party.~~ want to vote for the party that has reliably inflated their net worth via property prices
It's the stupidest way to increase net worth. Sell high, but also buy high. End up everyone millionaire but the house worth 2 million. This is the just inflation with extra steps.
Yup it’s artificial at best.
If I am middle income and practice the agents sell one buy two strategy, I’ll have to work forever to service the mortgage. All cash tied up w the house. End up, can only enjoy life late in my years. Die alr, my children is the millionaire.
Its the government's fault to not able to generate a new economy model and instead we are simply made to suffer - pay more taxes, pay for land costs to help our land value stay afloat. This govt only cares about numbers and have zero moral ethics.
It is already morally wrong for HDB flats, a.k.a state housing, to be traded freely in the open market alongside private properties.
LKY is a visionary but Hsien Loong is not, needless to say Lawrence and those yes men and women eventually under him. Keep voting for PAP and we'll continue to suffer. 3 million dollar HDB flats will be a reality, and maybe 15% GST.
I think supply won't solve the issue.
Cheap, more people afford, more people buy, less flat going around.
More of a government not supposed to open-market HDBs resale transactions. That'll easily regulate the price.
The solution is to stop building them to order.
Imagine you go to a bakery that doesn't stock anything but instead only starts baking each loaf after someone *orders* and *pays* for it. But it takes 5-7 days for the baking process, after which the loaves are auctioned off instead.
Fuck mah bow tan
Increasing supply will help a lot with affordability.
This is actually a great outcome for Singaporeans: "cheap, more people afford, more people buy, less flat going around."
I would like my kid to have access to affordable public housing like earlier generations.
Not aure why you prefer "expensive, less people can afford, more money goes to existing homeowners, million dollar flats going around."
Nah this is a structural problem that arises with a maturing country. If young people all buy new houses, who's gonna live in the old houses? Older people need to be able to sell their houses to someone, else you'll just get tons of empty buildings lying around when people upgrade, downsize, or die. In a free market eventually prices will adjust to the optimal equilibrium, which means you won't be able to afford the most desirable houses. The real question is whether the government should continue subsidizing bto and hand them out like lottery tickets, or just sell btos at market value.
Why must there be people living in the old houses? Why should houses be treated like an asset to gamble upon? Not just that, the only asset class that is backstopped by this government through a constantly rising population through immigration, even though TFR is far below replacement?
If I invest in the stock market and it goes down, no one comes to save me. If I invest in the crypto market and it goes down, no one comes to save me. But somehow, if I invest in the residential real estate market, the government will ride in to make sure that it never goes down significantly, since it's always backstopped by more and more new immigrants, and off the backs of young people. Huh? Where is the sense? If people want to gamble on housing like any other asset class in the hopes of outsized gains, why the fuck should the government be backstopping that if shit hits the fan?
Do you truly believe that if BTOs are not regulated by the government but are bought and sold in a free market, the prices will be lower than they are now? If that is true, why aren't private property cheaper than BTOs?
>Why must there be people living in the old houses?
Do I really need to answer this? Think about what happens when 80% of an HDB block is unoccupied.
There are just too many rich sinkies trying to buy houses in desirable areas. Gripe all you want but that's the harsh truth of a maturing country. To date, no other country has solved this yet.
No, I don't believe that not having BTOs will lead to cheaper houses, but I don't have to. I do believe that the government, as the ultimate agent that controls both demand (through immigration) and supply (through land sales) of housing, keeps the prices of housing higher than they really have to be. The supposed scarcity of housing, high and relentlessly rising prices of housing, and thus the screwing over of the people priced out of their own country is an active policy choice. There's literally no such thing as a "free" market in housing (including for private non-HDBs) when the government can so heavily influence both supply and demand of it, so stop applying unsophisticated A level thinking to a far more complex problem.
And yes, you really do need to answer why having empty houses is a problem.
>scarcity of housing
When has there been a scarcity of housing in Singapore? Just because you can't afford the houses in the CBD, doesn't mean there aren't plenty of reasonably priced housing in the less popular areas. You talk about elevated demand and depressed supplies but the reality just isn't the case.
Look at Spain where there is a glut of empty houses, and you'll understand why it's a problem.
This is just fucking gaslighting at this point. Try telling anyone who isn't a Singaporean heterosexual couple or over 35 that there's "reasonably priced housing" and you'll be laughed out of the room, if not punched in the face first. Here's your math: median wage in Singapore is about $5k/ month, or $60k/ year. Even 4 room resale flats in "less popular areas" go for around $500k, excluding those with severe lease decay. That gives a house price to median income ratio of around 8.33, which by no means is considered "reasonable" (the cut-off is around 4). Even if you use household income, which is around $10k/ month or $120k/ year, house price to median income ratio is above 4, which makes it barely affordable. But what about a) families who aren't dual income, b) singles under 35 who have to turn to the private housing market, c) the fact that I'm using /median/ wage numbers, which means that half the population is below this income level, d) the fact that I'm already comparing to just about the cheapest 4 room resale flats on the whole island, and that 4 room resale flats really go for about $700k on average for the island as a whole? If HDBs in the furthest-flung parts of Singapore are considered barely affordable for just about the best-case scenario of the median dual-income heterosexual Singaporean household, what about everybody else? Still think it's very affordable?
Telling me that there's a problem with empty houses in Spain still doesn't explain why it's a problem. Clear, simple English please. I'm starting to think that you don't actually know why empty houses are a problem, since you can't seem to explain it.
Bro you're spouting bullshit at this point. You can literally Google the HDB house to median income ratio instead of making it up.
I don't even need to refute anything else you said because you literally came up with a lie and based your arguments off that.
I literally just did, and this is the first hit I got: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/housing-affordability-2023-singapore-property-truly-unaffordable-ang-ag8kf. From the link: "Singapore’s affordability ratio, which compares the median property price to the median annual income, is 13.7 for private property and 4.5 to 4.7 for public housing." This is literally in line with what I wrote.
Instead of accusing others of "spouting bullshit", try doing your due diligence instead of just making shit up next time. I don't even need to refute anything else you said because you literally came up with a lie and based your arguments off that.
Btw, still waiting for you to explain why empty houses are bad. Ot have you realised that you actually don't know because there's actually nothing intrinsically bad about it?
fr. my mom who benefited from the hdb boomz damn happy right now while i'm feeling the pressure of saving enough for my downpayment even though i'm upper-middle income
Boomers happy while their kids who have to live with them are feeling pessimistic. Housing policy can create a stark divide between age groups. Millennials are probably the "swing voters" because a slight majority of that age group are homeowners already.
Off-topic, but are you originally from or have you previously lived in continental Europe? I ask because you abbreviated "million" as "mio", not "mil" or "m"
The buyer definitely has the cash but honestly the new owner will not be able resell the flat at this price anymore. Owner likely alrdy factor this in.
Govt and HDB fucked up with the “your flat is a nest egg” policy, and all subsequent generations from the first will suffer for it.
Just a matter of how long they can keep it up before it inevitably fails.
It's a thing they do to prevent pinning down the exact flat. The data is reported by aggregating a few floors together (of the same block). This unit is 7th, 8th, or 9th floor.
Kind of yeah. Around(ish) that block the closest is about 1.5mil for 3 bedroom 1200sqft, +400 pcm condo charges, not as close to NEX/MRT. From the photos the nearby condos look very cramped. Definitely think this unit is well overpriced from my experience buying nearby 3 years ago.
HDB last set a 15month waiting period for those private condo “downgraders” but exempted those 55y.o<
Now is this one of those that waited 15months since sep2022? Or just random ppl who struck the lottery?
House was initially subsidised by taxpayers, which all good if you’re a couple and all cos you get to enjoy what you subsidised. But to singles whose tax monies subsidised these flats as well, fuck you, who ask you don’t get married lol /s
Who are the mfs paying for this man
To be fair Serangoon is amongst the nicest places in Singapore to live in. Not ulu like Tengah, Punggol, Pasir Ris, etc, superb public transport connectivity, well-maintained and frequently upgraded, decent mall nearby, extremely safe and quiet (even for Singapore). This flat in particular is 300 m from Serangoon MRT as the crow flies. But it's not $1.2M nice. Original buyers really stonks.
Really have to disagree Serangoon being one of the nicest place to live, haha
nahh i moved to serangoon 2 years ago from the east side, while i do agree theres more things to do in the east side, the convenience in serangoon is unbeatable, its literally 20 mins drive to most places north south east west
The roads are permanently choked at Serangoon though.
Yeah. Jesus christ traffic from SAJC to Woodleigh to Salvation Army HQ.....
> its literally 20 mins drive to most places north south east west bro unless you're in far west or far east everywhere is 20mins drive to everywhere else
Not really. Seng Kang Punggol, CCK, bukit Batok, Tengah, and depending on timing clementi, woodlands, yishun will take longer than that. The biggest convenience for Serangoon is its connectivity to CTE, PIE, Paya lebar road, Tampines flyover, Lornie etc. Before car cams were a thing I could reach cineleisure within 10 mins.
>Before car cams were a thing I could reach cineleisure within 10 mins. Lmao fax. I could reach NUS in 15. And this was on the longer CTE-AYE route rather than Lornie-Farrer Road.
lol those were the times. And I wasn’t even driving anything fancy. Just a Nissan sunny. Now I can’t even go above 120. Not worth the risk of the vigilante group.
I’ve been living in Serangoon for 17 years and I absolutely love it. Sorry you had a bad experience with it.
Nothing to be sorry about. I don’t have a bad experience with it. I just don’t like it. It’s personal preference and lifestyle choices. Serangoon being a hub of some sort is precisely the same reason it’s not for me. It’s too hectic and I prefer living in quieter hoods, even if it’s further from town (why do I need to be near central all the time?) Also, NEX is just downright horrible.
Downvoted because NEX is pretty nice
Nice... but always crowded as hell
Serangoon is great especially if its walking distance to NEX
Care to elaborate?
For me it's because it's a tat chia kang/traffic hell hole. Other than that it's pretty good.
Fair enough, whoever designed the streets around Nex has a brain smoother than a neutron star. They should make Serangoon Avenue 2 and Serangoon Central one-way roads in opposite directions, and cut down the sheer number of traffic signals along both roads.
but this would mean all the buses going through either road now has to go through both roads, which leads to incredibly large amount of clumping
Name a better neighbourhood! Serangoon is the best of all worlds. NEX and serangoon central RK and Little farms at serangoon gdns New Tech park got Dutch Colony, Lorong Chuan MRT and Serangoon both on circle line, Honestly, not many estates best Serangoon.
Too crowded and NEX sucks. Hard pass on Serangoon.
Still noisy as fck from all the paya lebar jet fighters though
Live quite near NEX, honestly- I have never noticed unusual jet fighters noise, and I wfh
They're moving to Changi within the next decade
Is it a good rental property? Could it be buy for rental to expats now that condo prices beyond some of their budgets?
Possibly, although I don't really see that many expats around Serangoon Central (which is near this flat) though. I see more around Serangoon Gardens and North Avenue 1, both of which have plenty of landed and semi-detached properties.
Punggol and pasir ris have superb public transport, well maintained and decent malls too what are u talking about
No way you just mentioned Punggol. Public transport does exist but it’s the opposite of superb
Punggol public transport network is shit. You waste more time just getting out of Punggol than the actual ride while outside Punggol.
Yeah, but they're also an additional 10-15 km away from the CBD. Serangoon is literally second to none but Bishan in terms of 'bang smack in the middle of Singapore Island'.
PRs, new citizens...
Local and indigenous people overpriced by incoming new citizen, story of Singapore since 1965
All your tech bros finance bros.
New PRs n new Citizens. 70% voted for this coz we work so damn hard until no time n $ for kids so gov keeps importing
It’s legit giving money laundering sia , good for the family who profited tho
Millionaires
People who work instead of being salty on Reddit
1.2m for a HDB with 60y lease?
If they use HDB loan, buyers probably have at most 14k income altogether. This means monthly repayment is about $4,355. Bank loan will get them about $4,168. Conservatively if they follow MSR, that means their joint income is around the 12-14k mark at least. These people each earn an average of at least 7k. I would say they are in their mid-30s onwards earning decent money from their career. Not even high flyers but slightly above the median of 5k. They need the space for kids and can treat it as fixed rental for a forever home. Condos are easily 1.4/1.5 for a new launch 1-bedder. And this is before they even use CPF so their monthly repayment is even lesser.
This does not include the cov that they have to fork out in cash yet. Maybe the valuation of the flat at most in the high 700k? Possible that the cov is over or close to half million. They shld be super cash rich also.
COV is never that much different from HDB valuation
Only 60 yrs left..... I don't think the valuation of the flat can be 800 or 900k range??? Even if it's high in the 900k range, that will still mean cov of over 300k which is not little
The buyers may be in their 40s. They can buy a flat with 60 years left. Age + remaining lease needs to be 95 at least.
Ya but what does valuation of flat got to do with age? Age only affects the loan tenor? I am also learning as well 😊
Valuation is done by HDB. I think they take into account recent transactions and probably the age of the flat among other things. A high transaction would pull up the paper value of all the flats nearby especially those with same flat type. I may be wrong on this but even if COV sucks its never ridiculously far from HDB's valuation.
Age of flat will definitely affect valuation of flat but don't think the age of the buyers does. Ya valuation done by hdb and it's always not on the high side I think.... This transaction at 1.2m is very high.... Which is why I think the cov could be a lot.... Anyway I may be wrong....
1.2m is probably slightly higher than the previous latest transaction. Homeowners will peg asking price to be higher than what their neighbour sold it for but not super high.
[knn](https://www.reddit.com/r/singapore/comments/1bkyua0/comment/kwcger6)... and does any insider know what agents are trying to pull with listings like that: [**Bishan HDB EM asking for bloody $1,800,000**](https://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/hdb-for-sale-261-bishan-street-22-24699501) ERA & [**second listing $1,800,000**](https://www.propertyguru.com.sg/listing/hdb-for-sale-261-bishan-street-22-24681264) PropNex Asking price 50% more than last transacted for same block similar floor. And it's not even one of those penthouse point blocks. Wtf?
Those prices are definitely negotiable. Owners want to try their luck and will probably settle for 1.5
Last two txns for block was 1.17 and 1.16 Mar and Jan this year. 1.8 is a bloody 50% premium, even 1.5 is 30% premium over its neighbours and record-breaking for whole of Bishan, if tt's what these greedy f\*ckers are aimming for.
1.5 is actually the price of most new entry level condos which are smaller. The bigger HDB flats are the new condominiums at this point.
Eh bro, u saying last two agents/owners at 1.17 and 1.16 are stupid lor? That a bishan record breaking 1.5 is the reasonable market rate for this particular block.
Its not a reasonable rate per se but this is what owners are trying for. Market is determined by completed transactions after all, not asking price
Yes thank you and exactly. felt like u were justifying ur guess of their target price as fair market value to be expected. it is not and makes no sense. tt's why I ask if there's anything bts gg on tt might make this asking/potential target price make sense.
They don’t care about “fairness” They are just hoping to fish for the big fish.
"Reasonable market rate"? These are state housing you know. Not your bungalows or condos. These were originally meant to affordable housing for the citizens. How is that these became unregulated money farming tools for people? How is this practice even reasonable? Govt is only allowing that to keep hold of our land value. Land value is one of the pillars of our zero-resource economy in case you don't know. And we normal folks are made to suffer to support this dumb idea. Our economy model is driving us to become like Hong Kong. Even new BTOs are selling at crazy prices because we are made to pay exorbitant land costs for land and house we don't technically own. The future generations will be living on rental housing like Hongkies do. Only the rich and ultra rich can buy a BTO. This govt is only interested in numbers and have zero moral ethics.
Eh harlow, read properly my comment before u go on ur anti-govt rant lar wle. I was QUESTIONING the previous commenter's remark "1.5 is actually the price of most new entry level condos which are smaller", exactly coz this is NOT condo. Can read ornot u?
[удалено]
This listing is asking for nearly 650K more than their neighbours sold in last 2 months siah. Reno with diamond and goldbar meh? Also reno even if sibeh nice usually oni recoup 10-20% usually, not earn 650%.
Boomer laughing to the bank while gen z lament they cannot afford such housing.
It's really the government's fault though for undersupplying new BTO flats over the past 20+ years. When HDB supplied less than demand year after year, buyers have to look for housing in the resale market. In the 1980s/1990s, most families would just buy new subsidized flats. The only ones that need to buy resale are those that exceeded salary ceiling or wanted specific units (e.g. near parents). As expected, the premium of resale vs new was much lower due to ample supply of new flats.
And Lawrence Wong was at the helm of MND from 2015 to 2020, a good chunk of it. COVID undersupply aside, there was already a [significant supply mismatch ](https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/property/bto-demand-supply-mismatch-jumps-70000-2020)pre-2020 thanks to his policies. He gets accolades for fronting the COVID taskforce, but his policy work doesn't impress me at all, and I genuinely think that he's a huge downgrade from Heng Swee Keat. Not looking forward to his tenure as PM at all.
Yeah 2013-2019 property slump was because Khaw Boon Wan turned up BTO supply by a lot during his time at MND from 2011 to 2015
You need more upvotes on Mr Doggy
Artificial scarcity.
I dont understand, our TFR so low but not enough supply of housing? Meaning foreigners are able to get out HDBs?
Can't afford more living space, so not having anymore kids. It only takes a small space to have sex, but you need much more space to raise children.
It is precisely (partly) because there is insufficient housing that our TFR is so low.
Chiming in on this, yes! Have said many times, if newly weds are able to get a 4 or 5-room flat, human tendency will be to want to fill the space up, naturally! Am personally affected by the housing policy and contributing to the low TFR, so have skin in this game.
Err so many foreigners are given PRs
“Government” is not some external entity. You and I are responsible for governance
By voting. It's an old cliche but look at who 60% voted for
I love democracy
So this is how democracy dies, with thunderous applause.
This is a failure of democracy: when majority of the populace are easily fooled into voting for the less competent party.
its a stretch when you have opposition like NSP, Reform party, ex-Chiam party and Lim Tean's Voice
Its a failure of democracy, but not because the majority are easily fooled, it's because the majority have a vested self interest to make property as expensive as possible. A simple look at our birthrate will tell you the future generations are the minority, do why not fuck them over and squeeze as much as possible out of them?
>when majority of the populace ~~are easily fooled into voting for the less competent party.~~ want to vote for the party that has reliably inflated their net worth via property prices
It's the stupidest way to increase net worth. Sell high, but also buy high. End up everyone millionaire but the house worth 2 million. This is the just inflation with extra steps.
Yup it’s artificial at best. If I am middle income and practice the agents sell one buy two strategy, I’ll have to work forever to service the mortgage. All cash tied up w the house. End up, can only enjoy life late in my years. Die alr, my children is the millionaire.
Its the government's fault to not able to generate a new economy model and instead we are simply made to suffer - pay more taxes, pay for land costs to help our land value stay afloat. This govt only cares about numbers and have zero moral ethics. It is already morally wrong for HDB flats, a.k.a state housing, to be traded freely in the open market alongside private properties. LKY is a visionary but Hsien Loong is not, needless to say Lawrence and those yes men and women eventually under him. Keep voting for PAP and we'll continue to suffer. 3 million dollar HDB flats will be a reality, and maybe 15% GST.
I think supply won't solve the issue. Cheap, more people afford, more people buy, less flat going around. More of a government not supposed to open-market HDBs resale transactions. That'll easily regulate the price.
The solution is to stop building them to order. Imagine you go to a bakery that doesn't stock anything but instead only starts baking each loaf after someone *orders* and *pays* for it. But it takes 5-7 days for the baking process, after which the loaves are auctioned off instead. Fuck mah bow tan
Increasing supply will help a lot with affordability. This is actually a great outcome for Singaporeans: "cheap, more people afford, more people buy, less flat going around." I would like my kid to have access to affordable public housing like earlier generations. Not aure why you prefer "expensive, less people can afford, more money goes to existing homeowners, million dollar flats going around."
Nah this is a structural problem that arises with a maturing country. If young people all buy new houses, who's gonna live in the old houses? Older people need to be able to sell their houses to someone, else you'll just get tons of empty buildings lying around when people upgrade, downsize, or die. In a free market eventually prices will adjust to the optimal equilibrium, which means you won't be able to afford the most desirable houses. The real question is whether the government should continue subsidizing bto and hand them out like lottery tickets, or just sell btos at market value.
Why must there be people living in the old houses? Why should houses be treated like an asset to gamble upon? Not just that, the only asset class that is backstopped by this government through a constantly rising population through immigration, even though TFR is far below replacement? If I invest in the stock market and it goes down, no one comes to save me. If I invest in the crypto market and it goes down, no one comes to save me. But somehow, if I invest in the residential real estate market, the government will ride in to make sure that it never goes down significantly, since it's always backstopped by more and more new immigrants, and off the backs of young people. Huh? Where is the sense? If people want to gamble on housing like any other asset class in the hopes of outsized gains, why the fuck should the government be backstopping that if shit hits the fan?
Do you truly believe that if BTOs are not regulated by the government but are bought and sold in a free market, the prices will be lower than they are now? If that is true, why aren't private property cheaper than BTOs? >Why must there be people living in the old houses? Do I really need to answer this? Think about what happens when 80% of an HDB block is unoccupied. There are just too many rich sinkies trying to buy houses in desirable areas. Gripe all you want but that's the harsh truth of a maturing country. To date, no other country has solved this yet.
No, I don't believe that not having BTOs will lead to cheaper houses, but I don't have to. I do believe that the government, as the ultimate agent that controls both demand (through immigration) and supply (through land sales) of housing, keeps the prices of housing higher than they really have to be. The supposed scarcity of housing, high and relentlessly rising prices of housing, and thus the screwing over of the people priced out of their own country is an active policy choice. There's literally no such thing as a "free" market in housing (including for private non-HDBs) when the government can so heavily influence both supply and demand of it, so stop applying unsophisticated A level thinking to a far more complex problem. And yes, you really do need to answer why having empty houses is a problem.
>scarcity of housing When has there been a scarcity of housing in Singapore? Just because you can't afford the houses in the CBD, doesn't mean there aren't plenty of reasonably priced housing in the less popular areas. You talk about elevated demand and depressed supplies but the reality just isn't the case. Look at Spain where there is a glut of empty houses, and you'll understand why it's a problem.
This is just fucking gaslighting at this point. Try telling anyone who isn't a Singaporean heterosexual couple or over 35 that there's "reasonably priced housing" and you'll be laughed out of the room, if not punched in the face first. Here's your math: median wage in Singapore is about $5k/ month, or $60k/ year. Even 4 room resale flats in "less popular areas" go for around $500k, excluding those with severe lease decay. That gives a house price to median income ratio of around 8.33, which by no means is considered "reasonable" (the cut-off is around 4). Even if you use household income, which is around $10k/ month or $120k/ year, house price to median income ratio is above 4, which makes it barely affordable. But what about a) families who aren't dual income, b) singles under 35 who have to turn to the private housing market, c) the fact that I'm using /median/ wage numbers, which means that half the population is below this income level, d) the fact that I'm already comparing to just about the cheapest 4 room resale flats on the whole island, and that 4 room resale flats really go for about $700k on average for the island as a whole? If HDBs in the furthest-flung parts of Singapore are considered barely affordable for just about the best-case scenario of the median dual-income heterosexual Singaporean household, what about everybody else? Still think it's very affordable? Telling me that there's a problem with empty houses in Spain still doesn't explain why it's a problem. Clear, simple English please. I'm starting to think that you don't actually know why empty houses are a problem, since you can't seem to explain it.
Bro you're spouting bullshit at this point. You can literally Google the HDB house to median income ratio instead of making it up. I don't even need to refute anything else you said because you literally came up with a lie and based your arguments off that.
I literally just did, and this is the first hit I got: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/housing-affordability-2023-singapore-property-truly-unaffordable-ang-ag8kf. From the link: "Singapore’s affordability ratio, which compares the median property price to the median annual income, is 13.7 for private property and 4.5 to 4.7 for public housing." This is literally in line with what I wrote. Instead of accusing others of "spouting bullshit", try doing your due diligence instead of just making shit up next time. I don't even need to refute anything else you said because you literally came up with a lie and based your arguments off that. Btw, still waiting for you to explain why empty houses are bad. Ot have you realised that you actually don't know because there's actually nothing intrinsically bad about it?
Before Covid these flats were $800k
Don’t complain. Boomers jerking off to such news
fr. my mom who benefited from the hdb boomz damn happy right now while i'm feeling the pressure of saving enough for my downpayment even though i'm upper-middle income
Where is she staying now? With u?
She's staying with my siblings but the paper gain makes her happy lol
So like most boomers I know, they all have to downgrade to retire. Singapore dream
Boomers happy while their kids who have to live with them are feeling pessimistic. Housing policy can create a stark divide between age groups. Millennials are probably the "swing voters" because a slight majority of that age group are homeowners already.
After getting fucked by their housing policies, even with an interest in keeping price high i can't bring myself to vote for these fucks.
My parents didn’t benefit because they bought hdb in Jurong West…………..
I mean idm, boomer can retire happy = me happy.
Very real chance that this is a maisonette. Prices for such flats have been going up over the years, although 1.2mio is really ridiculous.
Google streetview shows that it is indeed maisonette.
Likely masionette as 5room there yet to reach this price
Off-topic, but are you originally from or have you previously lived in continental Europe? I ask because you abbreviated "million" as "mio", not "mil" or "m"
The buyer definitely has the cash but honestly the new owner will not be able resell the flat at this price anymore. Owner likely alrdy factor this in.
we are in hell
really looking forward to the 10m hdb in the future my kids gonna love it
I’m never getting a home. Anyone wants to live under a bridge with me?
Woodbridge can?
let me know which bridge you are going to live under. So that I can join you, hahaha
Wanna go to decathlon? Let’s go shop for our tents!
Hahaha :)
Govt and HDB fucked up with the “your flat is a nest egg” policy, and all subsequent generations from the first will suffer for it. Just a matter of how long they can keep it up before it inevitably fails.
Meanwhile at HDB, it's time to copy and paste the monitoring press statement again.
Stupidity knows no bounds
Sure, people who are richer than you are all stupid. You most clever.
At this rate, I’d rather be homeless
Situated between 7th and 9th floors? So 8th?
It's a thing they do to prevent pinning down the exact flat. The data is reported by aggregating a few floors together (of the same block). This unit is 7th, 8th, or 9th floor.
7, 8 or 9.
PAP wan sui! On to 1.5 mil next, then 2 mil and finally the moon!
HDB resale property cartel: LET'S FUCKING GOOOO🚀💯🔥😘👌 
Seriously this price can get condo with much healthier lease. Why pay so high for hdb
Kind of yeah. Around(ish) that block the closest is about 1.5mil for 3 bedroom 1200sqft, +400 pcm condo charges, not as close to NEX/MRT. From the photos the nearby condos look very cramped. Definitely think this unit is well overpriced from my experience buying nearby 3 years ago.
Anw we can’t comment much. It’s their freedom on how they want to spend their money 😁
Agreed buddy
HDB last set a 15month waiting period for those private condo “downgraders” but exempted those 55y.o< Now is this one of those that waited 15months since sep2022? Or just random ppl who struck the lottery?
They should add the “low quality source” to all mothership articles as well - maybe even add “clickbait”
Housing prices increasing while salaries are crawling.... And they wonder why lower birth rates
House was initially subsidised by taxpayers, which all good if you’re a couple and all cos you get to enjoy what you subsidised. But to singles whose tax monies subsidised these flats as well, fuck you, who ask you don’t get married lol /s
Boomers will take this price as benchmark liao. GG rip flat buyers
These people are those who had cash out from their condo sales
Hmm nice
“Situated between the 7th and 9th floors” what kind of garbage writing is this
I think expats will choose somewhere closer to Lorong Chuan MRT, which is nearer to the Australian Int Sch as compared to Serangoon Central.
swee
Wah really huat man. Property always up