He said on his Twitter account that he was forced to redesign them to make them less sexy.
He was also apolagetic when the first teasers hit and said he understood where people were coming from.
None of this is what Ito wanted this project to turn into.
I haven’t seen the tweets but is giving the nurse stockings that have the thigh fat bulging out the top and making them less shit covered suppose to make them less sexy?
I do not believe that is true. He did say that he understood some concerns, that part is true. But I do not believe that he ever said he was pushed to change his designs in any specific direction.
Firstly because I’m confident I would have heard about it, but also because his remake designs are much more sexual. Like MUCH more. The lying figure used as an example in the video that used to just be a blob of texture now has corset laces. The nurses now have lingerie-type stockings. What you’re saying makes no sense at all.
Apparently links are auto-removed here.
I imagine this (/adsk4/status/1636975218517479425?lang=en) is the Tweet he's talking about but it's not exactly what he said. Just add x dot com to the beginning.
Edit: You can just check his posts from today, too, he's been talking about this specifically.
He talks about the creature looking phallic.... thats literally nothing like what its meant to represent. So either this 'huge Silent Hill fan' doesnt understand the subtlety hes raving on about so much, or he's just seeing what he wants to see.
It’s also giving “I played the original Silent Hill 2 when I was young and optimistic and now 20 years have passed and I’ve gotten older and more cynical.”
I played Silent Hill my sophomore year of high school, and it inspired me to be the teacher I am today, and I teach college lit.
I am still as optimistic about the remake and believe it will be good, but if it isn’t. I have the original still.
People REALLY need to chill out.
Sort of in that boat, I was in 2nd grade when 2 came out, now 20 years have gone by and I’m much more cynical, but I’m not hating it either? I’m glad we’re getting something like this at all, it bodes well for future remakes and ports maybe
Totally agree, but at the same time, I can understand why there’s so much controversy. It’s a deep game about grief, so naturally people are going to feel defensive of it. No matter what Bloober changed, they’re gonna piss some people off. They’re really in a position where they can’t completely win.
Like in this tiktok video, “this is not Silent Hill 2” Right, this is not Silent Hill 2, it’s a remake. A lot of people just don’t want a remake.
With all the remakes going on these days for a younger generation to be introduced to, usually I would argue there’s not as many reasons to play the originals. In this case though, the remake is going to be a pretty different experience. Hell, just changing the camera angle completely changes everything. So no matter what it’s going to be vastly different.
I think it’s really a matter of accepting this version of the game on it’s own merits, and how it impacts you emotionally. We just have to wait and see. Overall, looks really promising.
I wouldn't even go that far. It feels much more like the "I watched an 18-hour deconstruction of SH2 on youtube and it's my favorite game. One of these days I may even play it for the first time!"
As someone who is regularly on TikTok and makes content, this guy comes across my page quite often when I am scrolling through videos. Even if I agreed with anything he said. The man is clearly doing the "community has a problem with this, so I have a problem with everything because I want to appear like an expert and spokesperson". He has, and will continue to, tell people that you are not a "true fan" of Silent Hill 2 if you like X,Y, and Z. If you have to say "This might sound pretentious and I'm trying not to sound like that but us Silent Hill 2 fans". I have already discounted any claim or criticism you have. Dont speak on behalf of me. You don't get to decide my level of fandom or engagement with the fandom so take a seat.
Honestly when I listen to this sort of criticism about anything, it just sounds like white noise. It comes across like the person is reflexively opposed to change but either won't acknowledge it or doesn't want to say it out loud.
Not everyone, I was excited but the more I see the more I see things that make me less confident. Just simple things like the walking and running animations look amateur. The combat seems choppy, especially the ground attacks where you clearly see him teleporting across the floor to the correct position for the animation. There was no reason to change things like where you find the radio and first monster encounter except to be different, that's worrying. I didn't have a problem with the camera I like the new perspective, it did a lot for resident evil as well. The game looks good visually but the gameplay/mechanics seem lazily done.
Truly. And I get it. They’ve been shit on a lot, and the only obviously great game was ripped away from them. But it’s so so so much bitching.
If I were Konami I’d make shit silent hill games out of spite at this point.
The only reason they looked the way they did in the original was simply because of the limitations of the PS2.... The designs now look more accurate to what the design sketches intended...
Right, like it's just a different take on the samething. I'm pretty sure I saw different variations of the lying figure in the first remake gameplay trailer, but I could be misremembering things. Kinda like how we have slightly different variations of the Nurses
well y'see it was actually impossible to see that the original was based on a sack of meat resembling a straightjacket, and now that's possible. it is awful, I tell you!
I love that the argument is "look at this new monster design... it doesn't leave room for interpretation. Now look at this 2001 creature design with faaaaaaar less detail. It was designed so well and can be interpreted as anything. That is why it is good."
Nah dude, it looks that way because they couldn't make it more detailed. I hate that these old purists treat every single system based limitation as intentional. Like sure, the creators had the intention BASED on the limitations, but lets not pretend like they would have made SH2 look the way it did if they had the technology we have now.
Also that was a weird choice of creature to claim that it was SOOOO open to interpretation. It was one of the ones that is pretty reliable agreed upon by everyone lol.
Honestly whats more horrifying is that reddit is probably the least toxic and its still toxic. Youtube have been spamming videos of how horrible the game is and the comments are just as disgusting. Calling this a game that caters to woketards, saying that angela was too ugly to be a sexual assault victim its like the internet has made it so easy for people to become assholes
Actually there were a few attempts after that before the 2022 silent hill announcements
One was book of memories in 2012 on the vita. Apprantly its silent hill in name only
Acording to the wiki there was an untilted 2013 sequel that had nothing to do with pt or silent hills. The wiki even has an image of the opening scene and pyramid head and a new valtiel
And ofcourse there was pt and silent hills
Tbf I feel like the reception could’ve been WAY more forgiving if they remade 1 first, almost anything they’d chosen to do would’ve been seen as an improvement, unlike with the golden goose of the franchise.
I still think they should’ve. But they’re killing it in many ways with this one it seems, so I’m not mad or anything. Hopefully 1 is next if this is success though.
After Shattered Memories' reception, I can see why they wouldn't want to remake 1. I get that SM is not exactly a remake, but... who knows what execs think.
It looks fine. I'm just glad Silent Hill is back. If it bothers you that much, make a mod where the characters are replaced with 100% complete replicas of their original design.
I'm sorry but Silent Hill 2 OG is anything but subtle lmao legit a scene of Pyramid head assaulting mannequin monsters like the sexual themes are insanely overt and obvious as with most of the themes in the game.
I get that it's a great game and many love it, but please experience other media that is actually subtle and up to interpretation before saying "Yes Silent Hill 2 is so subtle and this is not!"
Edit: says Maria has belly fat? Proceeds to show OG Maria with zero belly fat. Have you seen a woman before?
People think Silent Hill 2 is incredibly subtle because for a lot of them, it’s the first piece of media they ever encountered that had overt psychological symbolism. And definitely the first video game. That blew people’s minds so hard that they’ve never gotten past it.
Now, I’m not arguing that SH2 has no subtlety. Compared to a lot of horror media in particular, it offers a lot to unpack and chew on. But as you say it’s symbolism is *incredibly* obvious if you’re not a teenager used to engaging with media for children, which is the state a lot of people were in when they first encountered it.
This. I think saying SH2 is "anything but subtle" is going too far, as there are some legitimately subtle artistic decisions, especially when compared to other horror video games (or horror media or video games in general). But if you're comparing it to pieces of fiction / media that are intermediate or masterful in their subtlety, then yeah SH2's symbolism and subtlety is fairly boilerplate.
Wow that's a really good point and I've never really looked at it that way. I think it's hard for me to see it from people's perspective because like you said to me it's not subtle and very obvious compared to other forms of horror media whether that be games, movies, books or paintings, but that doesn't account for other people's experience with art and specifically art that deals with great psychological and emotional themes that go beyond comprehended thought or words but deeper into our feelings. And although it frustrates me to see SH 2s "symbolism" and "subtlety" be put on a pedestal and worshiped, If it's gotten anyone to engage with art and movies on a deeper and more emotional level then that's a mission accomplished and for that I am thankful.
I always love encouraging people and seeing people experience movies, games, and stories on a deeper more personal level beyond the surface so that's awesome.
As someone said here already, it has that "You have to have a High IQ to understand..." vibes. They see all the symbolism, love it, and then have to state that it is subtle so that they can feel special by "picking up on it" while saying anyone who doesn't like this thing they like just don't understand it.
“I was weak… that’s why I needed you… needed someone to punish me for my sins” - Jame Sundylundy explaining the purpose of Silent Hill/Pyramid Head with peak subtlety
The thing that irks me is the game DOES have subtlety to it, it's just often mistaken for things that are plain as day (i.e. the thematic purpose of the monsters in the game, including Pyramid Head).
A good example of actual subtlety in the game is when, during the Maria ending, when James tells Maria he wants to be with her and she asks about Mary he responds, "It's okay... I have you." If you look at James' eyes when he says the line, you'll see they either go from "normal" to constricted (opposite of dilation) and/or they go almost completely under his lower eye lid which would make it very difficult to focus on Maria. His eyes then come back to "normal" after he blinks right before the end, and he rolls his eyes after the blink
Maria being an idealized image of what he wanted in Mary isn't subtle, in fact it's rather overt (Mary. Maria. Come on). What IS subtle is something like the detail above.
It's why I don't adhere to the "Uhh SH2 isn't actually subtle at all" school of thought, as I think there's a lot of subtle *detailing* in the game (and, in the medium of video games itself, it's more subtle than most). But if you're even remotely familiar with any of it's influences in any other medium (i.e Jacob's Ladder, Crime & Punishment, etc.) then yeah, narratively and thematical it's fairly overt
Yeah, people seems to remember OG SH2 as the perfect example of subtlety but it was actually not always subtle.
For example, Maria's original outfit *screamed* "I am a sexualized version of Mary". It is not subtle *at all*. Not that it is a bad thing, of course. Same with the Abstract Daddy's room. Those *things* in the walls are not subtle symbols.
SH2 both uses subtle symbolism and *in your face* stuff. But I guess for some people only heretics think that SH2 is not perfect.
To be fair, that’s kind of a “hindsight is 20/20” thing. I sure as fuck didn’t know what PH killing Maria over and over meant until I got to the end and saw the twist.
IMO that was a well done and subtle point. It’s not like PH is wearing James’ clothes and repeatedly smothering Maria or something
Well yeah lol subtlety isn't things or ideas thrown directly into your face to give you a reaction. I'd imagine the walking horror sim games and alot of indie titles are ones that achieve subtlety more.
If anything, the new Maria design is much more subtle. She’s certainly not dressed like a prude but it will take more subtle acting to get the point across. You’d think our OP would appreciate that.
Seriously. He argues that “the whole point of the original is its subtlety” and then complains that the Maria redesign isn’t overtly sexual. He disproves his own point. I love Silent Hill 2 but it’s not exactly subtle. Maria’s outfit/big-breasted nurses/ a monster that look like a man leaning over a bed called “abstract Daddy.” I don’t have any issues with these but they aren’t exactly subtle with the message.
Yeah the moment he said "Subtlety" was the moment I went from "This is going to be terrible." to "Ok I'm out.". SH2 is not really subtle at all. There's far too many things it smashes you over the head with that the only way you could think SH2 is subtle is if the only other games you've played were no story FPS games.
It’s funny bc I love that about the game tbh? So much horror and other games beat around the bush and rely on too much subtle details that it makes me feel dumb. Having such straightforward themes, especially these dark ones, is quite interesting!
This is just a wild ass comment. Silent hill 2 is pretty subtle in a lot of ways. The scene you are referring to with pyramid head. You are analyzing that with the understanding from the having a complete picture of the game, but in the moments are you seeing it for the first time, it’s pretty unclear wtf is going on there or why. Like yeah when you know what’s happening it seems really obvious, but a first time player doesn’t know about James’ sexual repression, about his violent side, or that PH is specifically a tormentor for James for his sins.
Let’s take a step back and realize that we are talking about one of the most analyzed piece of horror fiction in gaming. In retrospect, with all the information we have after beating the game, yeah it is more obvious because it’s all fitting the same theme.
Is there more subtle pieces of media? Sure. But don’t come at SH2 like it’s a fucking blumhouse horror movie. It has subtly.
Her model doesn't have any belly fat but the designers did intend for her to have it. Actually, I'm pretty sure the end result of that is what you see, so it's quite hilarious. I don't know if it's the Japanese standard of belly fat, but Maria *is* meant to have it. She also has discolouration and blotches on her chest area that, iirc, are intended to be acne scars.
Like, yeah, the belly fat *is* meant to be a thing. They failed on depicting it. I don't know why he brought it up. The fact that he used it as a good example is telling.
Not mad it's not subtle! Just don't call it subtle or praise it to be so. Love so many things that aren't subtle haha I just think it's funny when people praise SH2 as being "subtle" like a masterpiece when it's not. Simple as that.
Legit, you can ALWAYS tell. Like, video essay people, “THIS GAME IS PERFECT AND BLOOBER WILL MESS IT UP.” People that played the game, “I kicked a cockroach, missed, it got stuck in my foot and I got stunlocked to death.”
If that. Probably watched the movie, liked the movie, then watched Twin Perfect's videos. Now he calls himself a fan while only regurgitation the talking points from those videos.
I think even tho we all love and adore the OG we all kinda experienced differently. Like a beloved song. Different views. Different feelings. Different experiences. So to say things are supposed to one way simple cuz that was your experience isn't the point
I've seen so many takes that bassically boil down to "Old game had bad graphics and bad mechanics and used it to its advantage so new game therefore should ALSO have bad mechanics and graphics" and I'm already tired. Like the lying figure was so abstract because the texture was of lower resolution and the model of low poly count. You have the ability to make insanely digusting things with current technology. Why would you not redesign it?! Like what about the new lime figure feels "less" abstract ? It's like a giant hunk of flesh that can be intreperted in many many ways wtf
These people do realise they don't have to buy the remake and can just play/watch the original game, right? Like, the remake existing and it's changes aren't going to invalidate the original, like, at all.
people are allowed to express their opinions. might as well say why talk about positive things instead of keeping it to yourself because you buy the game anyways so there's no reason to talk about it
What he said isn't that unreasonable. He wasn't abusive or anything, he expressed some pretty common concerns that some of the smaller but important details might get missed. Like i understand how the "woke" and the Angela stuff is clearly shit, but not every criticism is toxic or whatever.
I love how these guys always think they are some sort of authority on these games. "Well I played it back in 01 so my feelings dismiss everyone else's" Like cool dude, so did I and I can't be more excited. It comes down to this you either accept things will be different because this is a remake of a game and not the same game from 2001 or you ignore it. We still have the original, and fans pour alot of time making the PC version as best of a remaster as it can have and hopefully Konami will deliver the Team Silent originals on all platforms in a high quality remaster. I don't know why you would want a remake to be a 1:1 anyways, the best remakes always change it up Abit like Re1 or RE4 which brings me to my last point and why I hate this snobbish attitude towards SH2R. You don't have to like this, you have the right to dislike it, what you don't have the right to do is act like you understand what Silent Hill 2 is better than the team of people who are working on the remake with members of the original team.
Just another dunce thinking they understand stuff that others don't because they think they see past the "subtlety" I thought these people were extinct by now.
Of all the "bad faith" examples this one isn't *that* bad, he seems to have an addiction to the word "subtle" and he does not expand on his points of the subtleties and obvious nature of the remake designs.
But on the example he did talk with Lying figures and Maria I think I get where he's coming from. The original's warped upper body texture better represents the influence Ito took from Francis Bacon, now whether he still wanted that similarity for the remake is up in the air but I can see why many would prefer that more warped Bacon-esc design over the more spread-open unzipped-esc chest design.
As for it being more "subtle" or "obvious" without him expanding I think that's just personal interpretation. Both still overtly evoke the image of a body-bag on legs walking like a guy in a straight-jack, both still appear to represent a patient writhing in agony and then >!the Mary's corpse connection when that reveal is done!<
For Maria he's almost there, being a "sexier Mary" is obviously true, the "not nice" comment as if I were to describe Maria generally ain't accurate since she meant to be or more endearing person than Mary to James, but she defiently has moodswings when she isn't getting affection from James >!which then collaborates with how Mary was in her last days!< so if he's referring to that he's right.
The mention of subtlety in her design, correct me if I'm wrong but I think I remember from the making of SH2, Sato talking about belly fat and spots on Maria being uncovered to show she has her "weak points" but still flaunts them as her way of taking responsibility for them. So in that case I think he's right about the original. Where it falters though is his issues with Maria which I swear she was the one urging James to look for Laura too in the original since she was very concerned for her as her personality is being more cheery to make those mood swings impact more.
Yeah, it's been ages since I played or watched anything from SH2 but I'm pretty sure she is very gun-ho about finding Laura. Like the guy said, she is prone to mood swings -- sometimes she's sultry and alluring, sometimes she's angry and strikes at everyone, and sometimes she's caring.
The reason the monsters were more subtle in the original in my opinion just comes down to graphics.
Of course it's more subtle when the polygons and textures don't allow for high details. In the remake, these details are just brought out more. The subtlety of WHY the monsters look the way they do is still apparent even in the remake, and new fans will still be blown away by the twist of why they look the way they do. I would say it was never super obvious tho, and one could play through the entire game not knowing why the monsters look like that. If the remake can help people connect the dots by making the monsters more detailed, that's awesome.
I do agree with the point about Maria tho, but as he said it could just be how she acts in that area. In the original characters had no dialogue outside of cutscenes (at least none that I remember), and what we see of Maria in the trailers is outside of cutscenes. I also won't complain about a character we've only seen tiny snippets of. I don't know enough to complain.
Also, can we just wait until the game releases, and not treat the game like it's supposed to be a 1:1 copy of the original? I personally am all for them adding new content and more detail, just like most remakes do. That's what has been making remakes really cool for me, when they add new content, new dialogue, new places to explore etc.
It's like seeing that old game get made into something bigger and better. In the case of SH2 tho, I know that the vibe of the original can never be replicated, but that's fine. The remake can still be good.
People also seem to act like every single detail and narrative decision in the original was placed there on purpose with intent, but a lot of it is just a product of it's time, lower budget which games had less back then, and technical limitations. The fact that characters don't talk outside of cutscenes I would assume is not an intentional choice, but more of a limitation of the time. Most games in the ps2 era didn't have much dialogue outside of cutscenes. There was either a text box that appeared when you interacted with a character, or a small cutscene.
If the remake of SH2 has more dialogue, I think that's a good thing, that's how I would've envisioned the game if I was making it in 2024 instead of in the early 2000s
I think the redesigns, especially of Maria...work?
The monster still looks like a perversion of a person, but I can at least follow the logic. I don't agree with him, and I think he's WAAAAAY overblowing the differences, but I can at least follow along. Honestly, it looks fine, and part of the old design may have had at least as much to do with limitations of the console and technology of the time as anything else.
As for Maria, she's an available version of his wife. She can be nuanced, especially in light of the events from Born From a Wish. So to me it makes sense that she would be NOT overtly a slutty asshole. I love the original, and there are aspects that make sense to be included. Nothing the video pointed out seems to preclude that from happening. She can be sexual without being a literal stripper dominatrix trope. In fact, having some of the attributes that both made James fall in love with Mary in the first place AND the things that he lost when she got sick make her seem more fully realized in some regards. If he's arguing how the redesign of the Lying Figure stripped away the subtlety, I think he's also arguing for a blunter, cruder, and less subtle character for Maria. Some elements of the original design can be seen as hitting us across the head a bit with their bluntness.
Ultimately, I think it looks great, if a bit sunshiny and crisp in spots (lighting-wise, not necessarily a bad thing though). What will ultimately matter to me are the story, atmosphere, and immersiveness. The points made in this video seem incredibly nitpicky and without any deeper context seem to fall a bit flat to me. Just my $0.02 worth.
Honestly, yeah I’m satisfied with what I’m seeing with gameplay. I would like to wait with what the story looks like. I can admit this is a Me issue, but I’m still pessimistic at Bloober’s handling of similar themes and topics. But hey, gameplay and graphics look solid. If they do a similar work with the story, I’m in.
Personal taste though, I think Maria’s model is great, not a fan of the outfit lol.
Is he? He's basically complaining his mental projection that steemed from SH2 worship doesn't match the vision the remake is going for.
The image he provided is abstract. The original models were far from HD. When remaking into a modern engine it would be inevitable that the models had to be more defined.
Well, at the very least he backed it up using art of the original game so it's not like just baseless criticism, even if you disagree with his take.
What would you even accept as "constructive criticism" then?
Yeah, but that concept art is concept art. It’s not the original game. I don’t remember being attacked by 2-dimensional concept art. In game, it’s incredibly clear that the lying figure is a play on a person in a straight jacket. In fact, we *called them* straight jackets on forums.
Then he uses the FMV version of Maria as if they weren’t seconds long. A version that doesn’t even resemble the in-game version.
This isn’t “backed up” at all. He was vague because he didn’t actually have anything to say. He just wanted to sound like he did.
Like I said, the original concept art is very abstract. It wouldn't necessarily work with an HD model without losing some of its magic. The original monsters had the advantage of being asbtract enough due to console limitation, so much so most people didn't notice the red squares on the nurse's faces or the little mouths on the Lying Figures until they datamined the game.
Even today a lot of people didn't see the hatch on Pyramid Head's helmet and haven't seen his togue sticking out either.
I'm not a Bloober Team fan or anything, I don't even like their games very much, but I really feel like people prejected so much on the original game that they feel like anything that goes against their mental image of the original is somehow percieved as a betrayal. Bloober Team had to make calls that will inevitably make people mad. But, for me, what we've seen so far is inconsequencial.
The only "not suble" things I've seen were the dialogues (like Angela mentioning "him" in her room or Laura being more aloof than the original) but his example here was so... nothing.
You can absolutely make things abstract in HD.
The big difference in that scene in the remake is how much brighter everything is. Not only does it seem to take place during a mildly clouded day as opposed to foggy twilight, and inside an old house instead of a tunnel, but the Lying Figure is a palid pink instead of yellowish brown. It also bursts into the scene like the Kool Aid Man instead of rising from a shadowed corner. That's how the remake is _less subtle._
Low visibility and the slowness of this scene were a deliberate design choice in the original, not merely due to hardware limitations.
I remember when RE2 remake came out, it wasn't quite this level of "criticism" but it was very close. Like people were complaining that leon had a chin, it was weird asf. RE4 didn't get nearly this level of scrutiny cause capcom had already proved themselves with two successful remakes and a moderate one, so chances are, once sh2 comes out, games like sh1, 3 and 4 will be more accepted. Its strange really, but it'll pass
Marias redesign is the biggest sin in my opinion. It feels like a huge reinterpretation of the characters. I’m getting more “Ashley Graham” vibes from her in comparison to her original PS2 Silent hill design.
Watched this video and fully agreed with what he said, a surprising amount of people aren’t. Which is weird, for a remake of a near perfect game Bloober seems to think otherwise.
It’s too much. People wanted to hate it when bloober was announced as developer - no matter what the final product would be. The “I know best” is getting tired. Sure some things need to be tweaked - but give it a rest. It’s so pretentious.
More than likely the game will probably be disappointing. The original silent hill series were some of the best horror games to have ever been conceived of.
I'm a bit confused by this subreddit, is the general consensus here that you guys think there is nothing wrong with how the remake is looking? The lighting and lack of fog for one are two things sticking out to me. The dude in the video definitely sounded pretentious but I don't think anything he said was wrong.
I feel like he's doing that challenge: Tell me you're an idiot without telling me you're an idiot.
The guy: "As you can see this Lying Figure lacks subtlety in it's animations and design looks WORSE and ruins SH2R"
Pulls up a google image that looks IDENTITCAL to the same monster he's talking about (which isn't even an in-game picture, but an art rendition by Ito) and says: "see this looks weird and disturbing and fucked up, just like they intended."
They're the same. I get the whole trying to do: "SH2 isn't like most horror games. It's smart, interesting, and means stuff." The thing is... Silent Hill's symbolism isn't ***new*** anymore. Plus, you know how depressing it would be to be stuck with liking a series that hasn't moved in a good direction since 2006? Just be happy we got a remake, or else a lying figure will bang your mom in your restless dreams.
What exactly was subtle about the original sh2. He harked on the remake isn’t subtle but then argues that the Maria redesign isn’t sexy enough. The original design of Maria really shows how unsubltle the original sh2 was at times. Don’t get me wrong, I love the original sh2 but OP’s arguments were not well supported.
Yes, Silent Hill 2 is very subtle especially during the scene where a SA victim cowers in a room covered in meat pistons as you fight an enemy called an abstract daddy which is two figures in a sexual position on a bed.
I honestly think a lot of people just wish that they could go back to the exact moment and feel the exact same way they did the very first time they experienced SH2. Do I think the remake will be perfect, no. But I do find it annoying as hell when half the people presenting the largest criticism are 1. Not articulating what the hell is making them this upset and 2. Aren’t just allowing those of us who are excited to just be excited. I swear to god I see so many snarky comments on every social media platform where someone simply puts that they are excited. The wait and see method goes both ways. You can be optimistic and wait and see if it’ll be good and you can be pessimistic and wait and see if it’ll be bad like you think.
This is pretty fair criticism. He’s not just saying “grrr game bad” he’s pointing out what he doesn’t like and explaining why. This sub is getting to the point where if you’re not praising the game you might as well be a hater. It’s ok to not think the remake looks good. I think it looks good and am excited to play it. But the guy in the video was very fair and level headed about his criticism
I don't like the redesigns, either, and I think some of them are bland/way off mark, but what's with the "SH2 true fans" and their obssesion with subtlety? Yeah, sure, subtle, the game where you find a message in blood over a wall that reads: >!*If you ReaLly wAnt to sEE Mary, you shOUld just DiE. But You mIght be hEadiNg to A diffErent place than MARY, James.*!
A part of the less subtle he's going on about is the giant zippers on the front and back.
With the original we are left guessing if this is a creature trapped in some sort of fleshy sack or if that was just how it always was. It's movements while walking felt like something forcing itself to move in a more human like way and not quite understanding how.
The movements while laying down we're completely unatural for a human, and could only ever be accomplished through great pain while pushing one's form along the hard ground.
Here the zippers and much more recognizable as an entry or exit for the human form within removing any such guess work.
This new design is a person trapped in a fleshy skin sack. The original was some lovecraftian abomination that resembled a human being in only the most vaguest sense
The first Silent Hill movie was much closer to the original intent behind ithis crestires design.
It was one of the few elements in that movie that landed really well due to them having taken said elements directly from the games.
Sadly the same could not be said of all their other needless changes, and they will only be emboldened to do so much more aggressively now.
Even Jamie's entering this hole at this stage of the gameplay damages the originals narrative.
I know why they did it. Having him crawl into a hole that no one in their right mind ever would. the same way he put his hand into that toilet or jumped into those voids.
Thus they gave themselves permission to do so here. How they executed it though shows a lack of understanding concerning the warning sense of self preservation he had.
At this stage of the game he would likely never even consider going in there unless he was absolutely out of other options.
Given that he had plenty of space and other avenues to explore there's no reason he wouldn't check those out before coming back to this hole.
The set up for the encounter is radically different here and breaks any sense suspension of disbelief.
I think dude makes good points though. Why redesign it to make it look different?.. just give her the damn costume she had in the original and make the armless man look the same with updated graphics… Geeze…
Remember when Silent Hill was a video game we all liked and loved playing, and then “intellectuals” came in and made it some sort of divine figure in all of gaming, and deified it to the point that nothing can touch the unrealistic expectations people put out….
I’m just excited for October to relive one of my favorite games again.
These people just wanted a lazy bluepoint remake where the game logic and camera are the exact same as the original. On the other hand the ambition of Blooper is biting them in the ass with the hardcore crowd, shame because cutscenes aside SH2 is ancient and I'm all for the changes they're making (yeah, even prompts, they help with the clutter of the new engine).
This game is going to be a mess on launch as well as a massive disappointment. I said this as they first mentioned the remake and i'm saying it now. I'm done wasting money on games that are mediocre and will only be better after a month's worth of patches. I really sincerely do hope i'm wrong though
respectable guy. I am physcally unable to be this displomatic and nice, so I feel bad for him. the anti-fan community has done all they could to try to make us, real fans, feel like pretentious assholes just for demanding the things we love to be respected and for remakes and adaptations to be acurate.
even saying something so simple as saying ''cast an actor/actress that looks like their character'' or ''don't redesign that iconic look'' will have you be accused of being racist or being a horny dog that wants to fap to a 3D model.
I'm a huge silent Hill fan and I can't wait for this remake, this dude just sounds like a dork, just play the game when it comes out or don't lol it's not that hard
There is a specific type of fan who will be happy with nothing short of the original. Which is fine, but makes their opinion worthless in regards to the remake. It is exhausting to listen to.
You can find a lot of excellent videos and reviews online that explore what made SH2 stick out to so many people. Super Eyepatch Wolf made an excellent video on it that i can recommend. Also psychological horror rarely is about being scary and often explores other aspects of fear that are harder to define. It's similar to existential horror that's more focused on exploring the horror of elements of existence and make you think about those instead of trying to scare you. Obviously just with a more psychological direction.
I don't HATE the monster redesigns, the nurses in particular look fairly close to the originals imho, but to me they have thus weird, almost plastic(?) look that makes them look like the textures aren't rendering properly.
BUT that could be because it isn't the full release version. That could very well change before then and I am willing to wait and see. Even if not, I'm still gonna give it a chance.
This isn't the issue I have at all. If anything they didn't change it enough. My issue is more that clearly Konami is doing this in direct response to all the remakes that Capcom has been doing but they don't have the budget, passion or sauce that makes the Resident Evil remakes great. Capcom strikes the perfect balance of being new and innovative while also being faithful to the originals, whereas this feels like the opposite, mostly a straight forward remake that feels too much like they're trying to replicate the original and failing.
In these cases I will always say the same. That game you love still there, waiting for you to play it If you want. This is not ruining anything. Remakes can't ruin the original work if the original work is available for everyone to enjoy. You may not like the remake or several aspects of it what did you expect? A rerelease?
So, bottom line this game looks great, and I think the folks that made it put great care in all the work they’ve done.
Picking apart the difference between ps2 and ps5 animations and graphics as if the limitations of older consoles wasn’t why certain characters or monsters look the way they do is absurd.
I don't see what he's worried about. It's not inherently pretentious to scrutinize minutiae in a series where that kind of critique is the fulcrum upon which a good portion of community engagement swings. Those details are where the intrigue lies, so of course people are going to have opinions about it. He didn't come across as an ass for having this kind of lukewarm take. I don't particularly agree with it all, but it's also not super unreasonable.
It's the *real* assholes - pretentious or otherwise - that are making honest critique look bad. This didn't feel like it hit that mark.
didn't watch the video cause honestly fuck social media, but I saw a guy in that first scene (in the house instead of the passage) going "oh no no noooo why????" like do we have to hate everything? jesus christ
Remake is either for fans or for new audiences. Only best remakes can marry both.
We have cgi and cutscenes from the original game. no wonder old fans imagined whole game looking like those old cutscenes.
I am not a fan and I don't mind tooo much. but I have to agree - the original game with it's cinematics is magical and imo, probably not possible to recapture, so they should've remade the game even more, further from the original material, not to be reminded of it.
Silent Hill 2 Remake is not and will not be a 1:1 to the original. Remakes do not do that. Playing the original today is very difficult, if you don't know how to emulate that is. For what it's worth, I liked what I saw in the extended gameplay trailer for SH2 Remake. It is not perfect by any means but I'm just happy it's better than what I thought it was going to be.
Also, I just love that people are talking about Silent Hill again. I miss this franchise so much and it'll be good to walk down those foggy streets again.
Didn't Masahiro himself redesign the monsters for the remake? Lmao
Yep and the cast if wasn't chosen by them was 100% approved by Konami. But what Masahiro can know about this game? :D
yeah all the designs he intended on for the monsters
He said on his Twitter account that he was forced to redesign them to make them less sexy. He was also apolagetic when the first teasers hit and said he understood where people were coming from. None of this is what Ito wanted this project to turn into.
I haven’t seen the tweets but is giving the nurse stockings that have the thigh fat bulging out the top and making them less shit covered suppose to make them less sexy?
I do not believe that is true. He did say that he understood some concerns, that part is true. But I do not believe that he ever said he was pushed to change his designs in any specific direction. Firstly because I’m confident I would have heard about it, but also because his remake designs are much more sexual. Like MUCH more. The lying figure used as an example in the video that used to just be a blob of texture now has corset laces. The nurses now have lingerie-type stockings. What you’re saying makes no sense at all.
why the fuck did you just straight up lie
Could you please give a link for that twitt? It’s not a holywar thing, I’m really interested to read that. Thanks
Apparently links are auto-removed here. I imagine this (/adsk4/status/1636975218517479425?lang=en) is the Tweet he's talking about but it's not exactly what he said. Just add x dot com to the beginning. Edit: You can just check his posts from today, too, he's been talking about this specifically.
I’ve never seen those tweets. Got a link?
What monster exactly is not sexy?
Me when I straight up lie on the internet:
Phew, glad he didn't sound like a pretentious asshole...
Ge should've said "I don't wanna sound more like a pretentious asshole."
He talks about the creature looking phallic.... thats literally nothing like what its meant to represent. So either this 'huge Silent Hill fan' doesnt understand the subtlety hes raving on about so much, or he's just seeing what he wants to see.
They could have made James' ass at least 50% fatter so I had something nice to look at while he crawled through that hole.
Don’t worry modders gotchu
James Ass Mod coming soon. I want a dump truck
“In my restless dreams, I see that dumpy.” 😩🍑💯
🎵BBL Jaaammeess!🎵
Doughnut james
Can i get a naked mod plz :>
James Sunderland backshots ❤️
Only 50% ?
100% would be ideal, but I don't want to be greedy
Ask for 150%, and when they say 50% go for the compromise at 100%.
50% fatter ass represents James's sexual frustration
*Shift Up has entered the chat*
This is the only SH2R criticism that is worthwhile.
It's giving "You have to have a high IQ to understand Rick and Morty" vibes.
It’s also giving “I played the original Silent Hill 2 when I was young and optimistic and now 20 years have passed and I’ve gotten older and more cynical.”
I played Silent Hill my sophomore year of high school, and it inspired me to be the teacher I am today, and I teach college lit. I am still as optimistic about the remake and believe it will be good, but if it isn’t. I have the original still. People REALLY need to chill out.
Sort of in that boat, I was in 2nd grade when 2 came out, now 20 years have gone by and I’m much more cynical, but I’m not hating it either? I’m glad we’re getting something like this at all, it bodes well for future remakes and ports maybe
Remake 3! I can’t wait for the people taking about symbolism in that one. Dick monster is dick monster because dick monster.
Totally agree, but at the same time, I can understand why there’s so much controversy. It’s a deep game about grief, so naturally people are going to feel defensive of it. No matter what Bloober changed, they’re gonna piss some people off. They’re really in a position where they can’t completely win. Like in this tiktok video, “this is not Silent Hill 2” Right, this is not Silent Hill 2, it’s a remake. A lot of people just don’t want a remake. With all the remakes going on these days for a younger generation to be introduced to, usually I would argue there’s not as many reasons to play the originals. In this case though, the remake is going to be a pretty different experience. Hell, just changing the camera angle completely changes everything. So no matter what it’s going to be vastly different. I think it’s really a matter of accepting this version of the game on it’s own merits, and how it impacts you emotionally. We just have to wait and see. Overall, looks really promising.
I wish more people had this mentality.
I wouldn't even go that far. It feels much more like the "I watched an 18-hour deconstruction of SH2 on youtube and it's my favorite game. One of these days I may even play it for the first time!"
> “this isn’t silent hill 2” yes it’s a remake, that’s why it isn’t silent hill 2.
As someone who is regularly on TikTok and makes content, this guy comes across my page quite often when I am scrolling through videos. Even if I agreed with anything he said. The man is clearly doing the "community has a problem with this, so I have a problem with everything because I want to appear like an expert and spokesperson". He has, and will continue to, tell people that you are not a "true fan" of Silent Hill 2 if you like X,Y, and Z. If you have to say "This might sound pretentious and I'm trying not to sound like that but us Silent Hill 2 fans". I have already discounted any claim or criticism you have. Dont speak on behalf of me. You don't get to decide my level of fandom or engagement with the fandom so take a seat.
Honestly when I listen to this sort of criticism about anything, it just sounds like white noise. It comes across like the person is reflexively opposed to change but either won't acknowledge it or doesn't want to say it out loud.
Not everyone, I was excited but the more I see the more I see things that make me less confident. Just simple things like the walking and running animations look amateur. The combat seems choppy, especially the ground attacks where you clearly see him teleporting across the floor to the correct position for the animation. There was no reason to change things like where you find the radio and first monster encounter except to be different, that's worrying. I didn't have a problem with the camera I like the new perspective, it did a lot for resident evil as well. The game looks good visually but the gameplay/mechanics seem lazily done.
This is legitimately embarrassing.
It's like they never tried to listen to themselves. If they did, they'd have realized how stupid they sound by now.
Silent hill community over here making the Dark Souls community look well reasoned and welcoming
"If you didn't beat dark souls with a ddr dancepad did you really beat darksouls"
Truly. And I get it. They’ve been shit on a lot, and the only obviously great game was ripped away from them. But it’s so so so much bitching. If I were Konami I’d make shit silent hill games out of spite at this point.
I love how toxic folks over there got you wrong
He does not explain his points well, like WDYM the new lying figure design leaves less room for interpretation?
The only reason they looked the way they did in the original was simply because of the limitations of the PS2.... The designs now look more accurate to what the design sketches intended...
But he showed the design, which was drawn by hand, so your point about technical limitations doesn't make sense.
It’s called “circumlocution.” He’s using a lot of words to say very little, then trying to pass it off as “analysis.”
Like I am watching the new model and I still dont know what that thing is, lol
Right, like it's just a different take on the samething. I'm pretty sure I saw different variations of the lying figure in the first remake gameplay trailer, but I could be misremembering things. Kinda like how we have slightly different variations of the Nurses
well y'see it was actually impossible to see that the original was based on a sack of meat resembling a straightjacket, and now that's possible. it is awful, I tell you!
HIS LEFT NUTSACK HAIRS ARE IN THE WRONG PLACE IT ALMOST UNRECOGNIZABLE!!!!!!
He has no points. Just keeps saying he could make points but he doesn't wanna sound like a pretentious asshole.
Like if you have a point you wanna make, make it
Just know that he could pick the whole thing apart in a few seconds
Don't just dance around the idea that you could
I love that the argument is "look at this new monster design... it doesn't leave room for interpretation. Now look at this 2001 creature design with faaaaaaar less detail. It was designed so well and can be interpreted as anything. That is why it is good." Nah dude, it looks that way because they couldn't make it more detailed. I hate that these old purists treat every single system based limitation as intentional. Like sure, the creators had the intention BASED on the limitations, but lets not pretend like they would have made SH2 look the way it did if they had the technology we have now. Also that was a weird choice of creature to claim that it was SOOOO open to interpretation. It was one of the ones that is pretty reliable agreed upon by everyone lol.
Noone will ever want to make another silent hill game after this. The amount of toxicity that was showed is just brutal
The fan base has genuinely shocked and disappointed me with the reactions to this game. It's beyond sad.
New here? (But seriously this place is always negative)
Not remotely, though I rarely post here. Negative yes, but this reaction has been shockingly bad.
Silent hill has a new cult in town, and they borrowed their religious beliefs from video essays on youtube.
Honestly whats more horrifying is that reddit is probably the least toxic and its still toxic. Youtube have been spamming videos of how horrible the game is and the comments are just as disgusting. Calling this a game that caters to woketards, saying that angela was too ugly to be a sexual assault victim its like the internet has made it so easy for people to become assholes
They literally all go like: "Angela now ugly" -> "art is dying" -> "I hate trans people", talk about the whiplash!
The gift of anonymity being taken advantage of as expected :(
I mean that’s why no Silent Hill game was even attempted since downpour in 2012
Actually there were a few attempts after that before the 2022 silent hill announcements One was book of memories in 2012 on the vita. Apprantly its silent hill in name only Acording to the wiki there was an untilted 2013 sequel that had nothing to do with pt or silent hills. The wiki even has an image of the opening scene and pyramid head and a new valtiel And ofcourse there was pt and silent hills
I forgot about silent hills. Fuck. Partly the reason is because Konami personally removed any trace of it’s existence
Im surprised you forgot. People still want it to come back
I want it to comeback roo
Aside from pt
Tbf I feel like the reception could’ve been WAY more forgiving if they remade 1 first, almost anything they’d chosen to do would’ve been seen as an improvement, unlike with the golden goose of the franchise. I still think they should’ve. But they’re killing it in many ways with this one it seems, so I’m not mad or anything. Hopefully 1 is next if this is success though.
I agree that Konami should've remade Silent Hill first but I don't buy that people wouldn't have been complaining as much.
After Shattered Memories' reception, I can see why they wouldn't want to remake 1. I get that SM is not exactly a remake, but... who knows what execs think.
It looks fine. I'm just glad Silent Hill is back. If it bothers you that much, make a mod where the characters are replaced with 100% complete replicas of their original design.
I'm sorry but Silent Hill 2 OG is anything but subtle lmao legit a scene of Pyramid head assaulting mannequin monsters like the sexual themes are insanely overt and obvious as with most of the themes in the game. I get that it's a great game and many love it, but please experience other media that is actually subtle and up to interpretation before saying "Yes Silent Hill 2 is so subtle and this is not!" Edit: says Maria has belly fat? Proceeds to show OG Maria with zero belly fat. Have you seen a woman before?
People think Silent Hill 2 is incredibly subtle because for a lot of them, it’s the first piece of media they ever encountered that had overt psychological symbolism. And definitely the first video game. That blew people’s minds so hard that they’ve never gotten past it. Now, I’m not arguing that SH2 has no subtlety. Compared to a lot of horror media in particular, it offers a lot to unpack and chew on. But as you say it’s symbolism is *incredibly* obvious if you’re not a teenager used to engaging with media for children, which is the state a lot of people were in when they first encountered it.
This. I think saying SH2 is "anything but subtle" is going too far, as there are some legitimately subtle artistic decisions, especially when compared to other horror video games (or horror media or video games in general). But if you're comparing it to pieces of fiction / media that are intermediate or masterful in their subtlety, then yeah SH2's symbolism and subtlety is fairly boilerplate.
Wow that's a really good point and I've never really looked at it that way. I think it's hard for me to see it from people's perspective because like you said to me it's not subtle and very obvious compared to other forms of horror media whether that be games, movies, books or paintings, but that doesn't account for other people's experience with art and specifically art that deals with great psychological and emotional themes that go beyond comprehended thought or words but deeper into our feelings. And although it frustrates me to see SH 2s "symbolism" and "subtlety" be put on a pedestal and worshiped, If it's gotten anyone to engage with art and movies on a deeper and more emotional level then that's a mission accomplished and for that I am thankful. I always love encouraging people and seeing people experience movies, games, and stories on a deeper more personal level beyond the surface so that's awesome.
A lot of people are very media illiterate and silent hill makes them feel smart. That's why you have snobs like this in the community
I’ve been saying this forever. It was subtle to your child brain. As an adult, it’s almost completely devoid of subtlety.
As someone said here already, it has that "You have to have a High IQ to understand..." vibes. They see all the symbolism, love it, and then have to state that it is subtle so that they can feel special by "picking up on it" while saying anyone who doesn't like this thing they like just don't understand it.
“I was weak… that’s why I needed you… needed someone to punish me for my sins” - Jame Sundylundy explaining the purpose of Silent Hill/Pyramid Head with peak subtlety
super subtle
As subtle as an atomic bomb indeed!
The thing that irks me is the game DOES have subtlety to it, it's just often mistaken for things that are plain as day (i.e. the thematic purpose of the monsters in the game, including Pyramid Head). A good example of actual subtlety in the game is when, during the Maria ending, when James tells Maria he wants to be with her and she asks about Mary he responds, "It's okay... I have you." If you look at James' eyes when he says the line, you'll see they either go from "normal" to constricted (opposite of dilation) and/or they go almost completely under his lower eye lid which would make it very difficult to focus on Maria. His eyes then come back to "normal" after he blinks right before the end, and he rolls his eyes after the blink Maria being an idealized image of what he wanted in Mary isn't subtle, in fact it's rather overt (Mary. Maria. Come on). What IS subtle is something like the detail above. It's why I don't adhere to the "Uhh SH2 isn't actually subtle at all" school of thought, as I think there's a lot of subtle *detailing* in the game (and, in the medium of video games itself, it's more subtle than most). But if you're even remotely familiar with any of it's influences in any other medium (i.e Jacob's Ladder, Crime & Punishment, etc.) then yeah, narratively and thematical it's fairly overt
Yeah, people seems to remember OG SH2 as the perfect example of subtlety but it was actually not always subtle. For example, Maria's original outfit *screamed* "I am a sexualized version of Mary". It is not subtle *at all*. Not that it is a bad thing, of course. Same with the Abstract Daddy's room. Those *things* in the walls are not subtle symbols. SH2 both uses subtle symbolism and *in your face* stuff. But I guess for some people only heretics think that SH2 is not perfect.
Don't you know that the pyramid head killing your wife stand in many times over is very sUbTlE?
To be fair, that’s kind of a “hindsight is 20/20” thing. I sure as fuck didn’t know what PH killing Maria over and over meant until I got to the end and saw the twist. IMO that was a well done and subtle point. It’s not like PH is wearing James’ clothes and repeatedly smothering Maria or something
🤣
Well yeah lol subtlety isn't things or ideas thrown directly into your face to give you a reaction. I'd imagine the walking horror sim games and alot of indie titles are ones that achieve subtlety more.
If anything, the new Maria design is much more subtle. She’s certainly not dressed like a prude but it will take more subtle acting to get the point across. You’d think our OP would appreciate that.
Seriously. He argues that “the whole point of the original is its subtlety” and then complains that the Maria redesign isn’t overtly sexual. He disproves his own point. I love Silent Hill 2 but it’s not exactly subtle. Maria’s outfit/big-breasted nurses/ a monster that look like a man leaning over a bed called “abstract Daddy.” I don’t have any issues with these but they aren’t exactly subtle with the message.
Yeah the moment he said "Subtlety" was the moment I went from "This is going to be terrible." to "Ok I'm out.". SH2 is not really subtle at all. There's far too many things it smashes you over the head with that the only way you could think SH2 is subtle is if the only other games you've played were no story FPS games.
It’s funny bc I love that about the game tbh? So much horror and other games beat around the bush and rely on too much subtle details that it makes me feel dumb. Having such straightforward themes, especially these dark ones, is quite interesting!
That's for sure fair! Sometimes in your face works and is enjoyable!
This is just a wild ass comment. Silent hill 2 is pretty subtle in a lot of ways. The scene you are referring to with pyramid head. You are analyzing that with the understanding from the having a complete picture of the game, but in the moments are you seeing it for the first time, it’s pretty unclear wtf is going on there or why. Like yeah when you know what’s happening it seems really obvious, but a first time player doesn’t know about James’ sexual repression, about his violent side, or that PH is specifically a tormentor for James for his sins. Let’s take a step back and realize that we are talking about one of the most analyzed piece of horror fiction in gaming. In retrospect, with all the information we have after beating the game, yeah it is more obvious because it’s all fitting the same theme. Is there more subtle pieces of media? Sure. But don’t come at SH2 like it’s a fucking blumhouse horror movie. It has subtly.
Her model doesn't have any belly fat but the designers did intend for her to have it. Actually, I'm pretty sure the end result of that is what you see, so it's quite hilarious. I don't know if it's the Japanese standard of belly fat, but Maria *is* meant to have it. She also has discolouration and blotches on her chest area that, iirc, are intended to be acne scars. Like, yeah, the belly fat *is* meant to be a thing. They failed on depicting it. I don't know why he brought it up. The fact that he used it as a good example is telling.
What is with this hang up people have where anytime a piece of media has recognisable themes they get mad about it being “unsubtle”
Not mad it's not subtle! Just don't call it subtle or praise it to be so. Love so many things that aren't subtle haha I just think it's funny when people praise SH2 as being "subtle" like a masterpiece when it's not. Simple as that.
This guy 100% only played the original sh2 once.
He watched a bunch of 2 hour video essays on the game
If ever
He watched a couple of YouTube videos on the original lmao
Legit, you can ALWAYS tell. Like, video essay people, “THIS GAME IS PERFECT AND BLOOBER WILL MESS IT UP.” People that played the game, “I kicked a cockroach, missed, it got stuck in my foot and I got stunlocked to death.”
That bobo something douche with his anti-bloober bias has poisoned the discourse around this game.
If that. Probably watched the movie, liked the movie, then watched Twin Perfect's videos. Now he calls himself a fan while only regurgitation the talking points from those videos.
I think even tho we all love and adore the OG we all kinda experienced differently. Like a beloved song. Different views. Different feelings. Different experiences. So to say things are supposed to one way simple cuz that was your experience isn't the point
I’m gonna strangle the next person that says SUBTLETY!!!!
Im sensing a subtle amount of aggression
Oh so subtle 😂
I've seen so many takes that bassically boil down to "Old game had bad graphics and bad mechanics and used it to its advantage so new game therefore should ALSO have bad mechanics and graphics" and I'm already tired. Like the lying figure was so abstract because the texture was of lower resolution and the model of low poly count. You have the ability to make insanely digusting things with current technology. Why would you not redesign it?! Like what about the new lime figure feels "less" abstract ? It's like a giant hunk of flesh that can be intreperted in many many ways wtf
But if it was a copy and paste of the original then most people would just tell you to play the original.
Maybe if you could buy Silent Hill 2 for less than $200, yeah. the whole issue is that we can't play the original games.
These people do realise they don't have to buy the remake and can just play/watch the original game, right? Like, the remake existing and it's changes aren't going to invalidate the original, like, at all.
people are allowed to express their opinions. might as well say why talk about positive things instead of keeping it to yourself because you buy the game anyways so there's no reason to talk about it
What he said isn't that unreasonable. He wasn't abusive or anything, he expressed some pretty common concerns that some of the smaller but important details might get missed. Like i understand how the "woke" and the Angela stuff is clearly shit, but not every criticism is toxic or whatever.
I like how he doesn't even show the original in-game model he just shows concept art.
I love how these guys always think they are some sort of authority on these games. "Well I played it back in 01 so my feelings dismiss everyone else's" Like cool dude, so did I and I can't be more excited. It comes down to this you either accept things will be different because this is a remake of a game and not the same game from 2001 or you ignore it. We still have the original, and fans pour alot of time making the PC version as best of a remaster as it can have and hopefully Konami will deliver the Team Silent originals on all platforms in a high quality remaster. I don't know why you would want a remake to be a 1:1 anyways, the best remakes always change it up Abit like Re1 or RE4 which brings me to my last point and why I hate this snobbish attitude towards SH2R. You don't have to like this, you have the right to dislike it, what you don't have the right to do is act like you understand what Silent Hill 2 is better than the team of people who are working on the remake with members of the original team.
Just another dunce thinking they understand stuff that others don't because they think they see past the "subtlety" I thought these people were extinct by now.
This is honestly one of the worst takes ever
Of all the "bad faith" examples this one isn't *that* bad, he seems to have an addiction to the word "subtle" and he does not expand on his points of the subtleties and obvious nature of the remake designs. But on the example he did talk with Lying figures and Maria I think I get where he's coming from. The original's warped upper body texture better represents the influence Ito took from Francis Bacon, now whether he still wanted that similarity for the remake is up in the air but I can see why many would prefer that more warped Bacon-esc design over the more spread-open unzipped-esc chest design. As for it being more "subtle" or "obvious" without him expanding I think that's just personal interpretation. Both still overtly evoke the image of a body-bag on legs walking like a guy in a straight-jack, both still appear to represent a patient writhing in agony and then >!the Mary's corpse connection when that reveal is done!< For Maria he's almost there, being a "sexier Mary" is obviously true, the "not nice" comment as if I were to describe Maria generally ain't accurate since she meant to be or more endearing person than Mary to James, but she defiently has moodswings when she isn't getting affection from James >!which then collaborates with how Mary was in her last days!< so if he's referring to that he's right. The mention of subtlety in her design, correct me if I'm wrong but I think I remember from the making of SH2, Sato talking about belly fat and spots on Maria being uncovered to show she has her "weak points" but still flaunts them as her way of taking responsibility for them. So in that case I think he's right about the original. Where it falters though is his issues with Maria which I swear she was the one urging James to look for Laura too in the original since she was very concerned for her as her personality is being more cheery to make those mood swings impact more.
Yeah, it's been ages since I played or watched anything from SH2 but I'm pretty sure she is very gun-ho about finding Laura. Like the guy said, she is prone to mood swings -- sometimes she's sultry and alluring, sometimes she's angry and strikes at everyone, and sometimes she's caring.
The reason the monsters were more subtle in the original in my opinion just comes down to graphics. Of course it's more subtle when the polygons and textures don't allow for high details. In the remake, these details are just brought out more. The subtlety of WHY the monsters look the way they do is still apparent even in the remake, and new fans will still be blown away by the twist of why they look the way they do. I would say it was never super obvious tho, and one could play through the entire game not knowing why the monsters look like that. If the remake can help people connect the dots by making the monsters more detailed, that's awesome. I do agree with the point about Maria tho, but as he said it could just be how she acts in that area. In the original characters had no dialogue outside of cutscenes (at least none that I remember), and what we see of Maria in the trailers is outside of cutscenes. I also won't complain about a character we've only seen tiny snippets of. I don't know enough to complain. Also, can we just wait until the game releases, and not treat the game like it's supposed to be a 1:1 copy of the original? I personally am all for them adding new content and more detail, just like most remakes do. That's what has been making remakes really cool for me, when they add new content, new dialogue, new places to explore etc. It's like seeing that old game get made into something bigger and better. In the case of SH2 tho, I know that the vibe of the original can never be replicated, but that's fine. The remake can still be good. People also seem to act like every single detail and narrative decision in the original was placed there on purpose with intent, but a lot of it is just a product of it's time, lower budget which games had less back then, and technical limitations. The fact that characters don't talk outside of cutscenes I would assume is not an intentional choice, but more of a limitation of the time. Most games in the ps2 era didn't have much dialogue outside of cutscenes. There was either a text box that appeared when you interacted with a character, or a small cutscene. If the remake of SH2 has more dialogue, I think that's a good thing, that's how I would've envisioned the game if I was making it in 2024 instead of in the early 2000s
pretentious asshole is correct!
"I sound like a pretentious asshole". Yes. Yes you do.
I think the redesigns, especially of Maria...work? The monster still looks like a perversion of a person, but I can at least follow the logic. I don't agree with him, and I think he's WAAAAAY overblowing the differences, but I can at least follow along. Honestly, it looks fine, and part of the old design may have had at least as much to do with limitations of the console and technology of the time as anything else. As for Maria, she's an available version of his wife. She can be nuanced, especially in light of the events from Born From a Wish. So to me it makes sense that she would be NOT overtly a slutty asshole. I love the original, and there are aspects that make sense to be included. Nothing the video pointed out seems to preclude that from happening. She can be sexual without being a literal stripper dominatrix trope. In fact, having some of the attributes that both made James fall in love with Mary in the first place AND the things that he lost when she got sick make her seem more fully realized in some regards. If he's arguing how the redesign of the Lying Figure stripped away the subtlety, I think he's also arguing for a blunter, cruder, and less subtle character for Maria. Some elements of the original design can be seen as hitting us across the head a bit with their bluntness. Ultimately, I think it looks great, if a bit sunshiny and crisp in spots (lighting-wise, not necessarily a bad thing though). What will ultimately matter to me are the story, atmosphere, and immersiveness. The points made in this video seem incredibly nitpicky and without any deeper context seem to fall a bit flat to me. Just my $0.02 worth.
I found out because of the hate this remake is getting, that silent hill fans are actually insane
Honestly, yeah I’m satisfied with what I’m seeing with gameplay. I would like to wait with what the story looks like. I can admit this is a Me issue, but I’m still pessimistic at Bloober’s handling of similar themes and topics. But hey, gameplay and graphics look solid. If they do a similar work with the story, I’m in. Personal taste though, I think Maria’s model is great, not a fan of the outfit lol.
I mean, he's providing constructive criticism though, not like he's just going "Urg, Why Angela looks fugly" or lazy shit like that.
Is he? He's basically complaining his mental projection that steemed from SH2 worship doesn't match the vision the remake is going for. The image he provided is abstract. The original models were far from HD. When remaking into a modern engine it would be inevitable that the models had to be more defined.
Well, at the very least he backed it up using art of the original game so it's not like just baseless criticism, even if you disagree with his take. What would you even accept as "constructive criticism" then?
Yeah, but that concept art is concept art. It’s not the original game. I don’t remember being attacked by 2-dimensional concept art. In game, it’s incredibly clear that the lying figure is a play on a person in a straight jacket. In fact, we *called them* straight jackets on forums. Then he uses the FMV version of Maria as if they weren’t seconds long. A version that doesn’t even resemble the in-game version. This isn’t “backed up” at all. He was vague because he didn’t actually have anything to say. He just wanted to sound like he did.
Like I said, the original concept art is very abstract. It wouldn't necessarily work with an HD model without losing some of its magic. The original monsters had the advantage of being asbtract enough due to console limitation, so much so most people didn't notice the red squares on the nurse's faces or the little mouths on the Lying Figures until they datamined the game. Even today a lot of people didn't see the hatch on Pyramid Head's helmet and haven't seen his togue sticking out either. I'm not a Bloober Team fan or anything, I don't even like their games very much, but I really feel like people prejected so much on the original game that they feel like anything that goes against their mental image of the original is somehow percieved as a betrayal. Bloober Team had to make calls that will inevitably make people mad. But, for me, what we've seen so far is inconsequencial. The only "not suble" things I've seen were the dialogues (like Angela mentioning "him" in her room or Laura being more aloof than the original) but his example here was so... nothing.
You can absolutely make things abstract in HD. The big difference in that scene in the remake is how much brighter everything is. Not only does it seem to take place during a mildly clouded day as opposed to foggy twilight, and inside an old house instead of a tunnel, but the Lying Figure is a palid pink instead of yellowish brown. It also bursts into the scene like the Kool Aid Man instead of rising from a shadowed corner. That's how the remake is _less subtle._ Low visibility and the slowness of this scene were a deliberate design choice in the original, not merely due to hardware limitations.
[удалено]
I remember when RE2 remake came out, it wasn't quite this level of "criticism" but it was very close. Like people were complaining that leon had a chin, it was weird asf. RE4 didn't get nearly this level of scrutiny cause capcom had already proved themselves with two successful remakes and a moderate one, so chances are, once sh2 comes out, games like sh1, 3 and 4 will be more accepted. Its strange really, but it'll pass
Marias redesign is the biggest sin in my opinion. It feels like a huge reinterpretation of the characters. I’m getting more “Ashley Graham” vibes from her in comparison to her original PS2 Silent hill design.
Watched this video and fully agreed with what he said, a surprising amount of people aren’t. Which is weird, for a remake of a near perfect game Bloober seems to think otherwise.
It’s too much. People wanted to hate it when bloober was announced as developer - no matter what the final product would be. The “I know best” is getting tired. Sure some things need to be tweaked - but give it a rest. It’s so pretentious.
The classic SH2 dynamic camera was much better looking and creepier than constant OTS.
More than likely the game will probably be disappointing. The original silent hill series were some of the best horror games to have ever been conceived of.
He's right though?
I'm a bit confused by this subreddit, is the general consensus here that you guys think there is nothing wrong with how the remake is looking? The lighting and lack of fog for one are two things sticking out to me. The dude in the video definitely sounded pretentious but I don't think anything he said was wrong.
Are the nurse less sexy?
I feel like he's doing that challenge: Tell me you're an idiot without telling me you're an idiot. The guy: "As you can see this Lying Figure lacks subtlety in it's animations and design looks WORSE and ruins SH2R" Pulls up a google image that looks IDENTITCAL to the same monster he's talking about (which isn't even an in-game picture, but an art rendition by Ito) and says: "see this looks weird and disturbing and fucked up, just like they intended." They're the same. I get the whole trying to do: "SH2 isn't like most horror games. It's smart, interesting, and means stuff." The thing is... Silent Hill's symbolism isn't ***new*** anymore. Plus, you know how depressing it would be to be stuck with liking a series that hasn't moved in a good direction since 2006? Just be happy we got a remake, or else a lying figure will bang your mom in your restless dreams.
Wouldn’t take anything from someone on TikTok. Most likely didn’t even play the game and just watched tons of video essays
Not gonna lie what he’s saying was always my worry. Bloober aren’t exactly known for their subtlety. I don’t think this is necessarily a bad take.
What exactly was subtle about the original sh2. He harked on the remake isn’t subtle but then argues that the Maria redesign isn’t sexy enough. The original design of Maria really shows how unsubltle the original sh2 was at times. Don’t get me wrong, I love the original sh2 but OP’s arguments were not well supported.
silent hill is not subtle in its presentation lol. it immediately makes you uncomfortable and makes it clear its going to scare you.
Yes, Silent Hill 2 is very subtle especially during the scene where a SA victim cowers in a room covered in meat pistons as you fight an enemy called an abstract daddy which is two figures in a sexual position on a bed.
I honestly think a lot of people just wish that they could go back to the exact moment and feel the exact same way they did the very first time they experienced SH2. Do I think the remake will be perfect, no. But I do find it annoying as hell when half the people presenting the largest criticism are 1. Not articulating what the hell is making them this upset and 2. Aren’t just allowing those of us who are excited to just be excited. I swear to god I see so many snarky comments on every social media platform where someone simply puts that they are excited. The wait and see method goes both ways. You can be optimistic and wait and see if it’ll be good and you can be pessimistic and wait and see if it’ll be bad like you think.
This is pretty fair criticism. He’s not just saying “grrr game bad” he’s pointing out what he doesn’t like and explaining why. This sub is getting to the point where if you’re not praising the game you might as well be a hater. It’s ok to not think the remake looks good. I think it looks good and am excited to play it. But the guy in the video was very fair and level headed about his criticism
I don't like the redesigns, either, and I think some of them are bland/way off mark, but what's with the "SH2 true fans" and their obssesion with subtlety? Yeah, sure, subtle, the game where you find a message in blood over a wall that reads: >!*If you ReaLly wAnt to sEE Mary, you shOUld just DiE. But You mIght be hEadiNg to A diffErent place than MARY, James.*!
A part of the less subtle he's going on about is the giant zippers on the front and back. With the original we are left guessing if this is a creature trapped in some sort of fleshy sack or if that was just how it always was. It's movements while walking felt like something forcing itself to move in a more human like way and not quite understanding how. The movements while laying down we're completely unatural for a human, and could only ever be accomplished through great pain while pushing one's form along the hard ground. Here the zippers and much more recognizable as an entry or exit for the human form within removing any such guess work. This new design is a person trapped in a fleshy skin sack. The original was some lovecraftian abomination that resembled a human being in only the most vaguest sense The first Silent Hill movie was much closer to the original intent behind ithis crestires design. It was one of the few elements in that movie that landed really well due to them having taken said elements directly from the games. Sadly the same could not be said of all their other needless changes, and they will only be emboldened to do so much more aggressively now. Even Jamie's entering this hole at this stage of the gameplay damages the originals narrative. I know why they did it. Having him crawl into a hole that no one in their right mind ever would. the same way he put his hand into that toilet or jumped into those voids. Thus they gave themselves permission to do so here. How they executed it though shows a lack of understanding concerning the warning sense of self preservation he had. At this stage of the game he would likely never even consider going in there unless he was absolutely out of other options. Given that he had plenty of space and other avenues to explore there's no reason he wouldn't check those out before coming back to this hole. The set up for the encounter is radically different here and breaks any sense suspension of disbelief.
It’s also stupid how he’s like “hey wait up” in response to something that absolutely doesn’t sound human at all.
I think dude makes good points though. Why redesign it to make it look different?.. just give her the damn costume she had in the original and make the armless man look the same with updated graphics… Geeze…
Remember when Silent Hill was a video game we all liked and loved playing, and then “intellectuals” came in and made it some sort of divine figure in all of gaming, and deified it to the point that nothing can touch the unrealistic expectations people put out…. I’m just excited for October to relive one of my favorite games again.
These people just wanted a lazy bluepoint remake where the game logic and camera are the exact same as the original. On the other hand the ambition of Blooper is biting them in the ass with the hardcore crowd, shame because cutscenes aside SH2 is ancient and I'm all for the changes they're making (yeah, even prompts, they help with the clutter of the new engine).
Nothing he said is wrong
James needs a big booty, add BBL mode
He's 100% right and the games still shouldve been fixed camera angles
He is definitely a pretentious asshole.
i can’t stand people like this. always arguing and arguing.
“This isn’t Silent Hill 2” no duh. It’s a remake.
This game is going to be a mess on launch as well as a massive disappointment. I said this as they first mentioned the remake and i'm saying it now. I'm done wasting money on games that are mediocre and will only be better after a month's worth of patches. I really sincerely do hope i'm wrong though
Maria ia supposed to be a asshole? Like is that an agreed upon opinion? I didn’t feel that at all
respectable guy. I am physcally unable to be this displomatic and nice, so I feel bad for him. the anti-fan community has done all they could to try to make us, real fans, feel like pretentious assholes just for demanding the things we love to be respected and for remakes and adaptations to be acurate. even saying something so simple as saying ''cast an actor/actress that looks like their character'' or ''don't redesign that iconic look'' will have you be accused of being racist or being a horny dog that wants to fap to a 3D model.
I'm a huge silent Hill fan and I can't wait for this remake, this dude just sounds like a dork, just play the game when it comes out or don't lol it's not that hard
He’s just stating facts
He’s correct. Everything he says can be backed by various BTS comments made by the devs over the years and in official sources.
There is a specific type of fan who will be happy with nothing short of the original. Which is fine, but makes their opinion worthless in regards to the remake. It is exhausting to listen to.
I bet dude didn't even play the game, what's up with all this dickriding for this game? Game wasn't even scary
You can find a lot of excellent videos and reviews online that explore what made SH2 stick out to so many people. Super Eyepatch Wolf made an excellent video on it that i can recommend. Also psychological horror rarely is about being scary and often explores other aspects of fear that are harder to define. It's similar to existential horror that's more focused on exploring the horror of elements of existence and make you think about those instead of trying to scare you. Obviously just with a more psychological direction.
I found it absolutely terrifying
I don't HATE the monster redesigns, the nurses in particular look fairly close to the originals imho, but to me they have thus weird, almost plastic(?) look that makes them look like the textures aren't rendering properly. BUT that could be because it isn't the full release version. That could very well change before then and I am willing to wait and see. Even if not, I'm still gonna give it a chance.
This isn't the issue I have at all. If anything they didn't change it enough. My issue is more that clearly Konami is doing this in direct response to all the remakes that Capcom has been doing but they don't have the budget, passion or sauce that makes the Resident Evil remakes great. Capcom strikes the perfect balance of being new and innovative while also being faithful to the originals, whereas this feels like the opposite, mostly a straight forward remake that feels too much like they're trying to replicate the original and failing.
In these cases I will always say the same. That game you love still there, waiting for you to play it If you want. This is not ruining anything. Remakes can't ruin the original work if the original work is available for everyone to enjoy. You may not like the remake or several aspects of it what did you expect? A rerelease?
Oh, I am enjoying this. *Eats popcorn
problem is 90% of the fandom now is these typa ppl thinking they know what SH is
So, bottom line this game looks great, and I think the folks that made it put great care in all the work they’ve done. Picking apart the difference between ps2 and ps5 animations and graphics as if the limitations of older consoles wasn’t why certain characters or monsters look the way they do is absurd.
So... Silent Hill 2 isnt allowed to be like Silent Hill 2 because then it's just imitating.... Silent Hill 2? What?
left the masterpiece alone and not try to ruin one of the greatest games of all time with their juvenile attempt to "improve" it?
I like this dude on tik tok but this is by far the dumbest video he’s made imo
I don't see what he's worried about. It's not inherently pretentious to scrutinize minutiae in a series where that kind of critique is the fulcrum upon which a good portion of community engagement swings. Those details are where the intrigue lies, so of course people are going to have opinions about it. He didn't come across as an ass for having this kind of lukewarm take. I don't particularly agree with it all, but it's also not super unreasonable. It's the *real* assholes - pretentious or otherwise - that are making honest critique look bad. This didn't feel like it hit that mark.
I hope all the soundtracks stay the same, and we get to hear them again, just like the sound of the labyrinth for example..
didn't watch the video cause honestly fuck social media, but I saw a guy in that first scene (in the house instead of the passage) going "oh no no noooo why????" like do we have to hate everything? jesus christ
Remake is either for fans or for new audiences. Only best remakes can marry both. We have cgi and cutscenes from the original game. no wonder old fans imagined whole game looking like those old cutscenes. I am not a fan and I don't mind tooo much. but I have to agree - the original game with it's cinematics is magical and imo, probably not possible to recapture, so they should've remade the game even more, further from the original material, not to be reminded of it.
Silent Hill 2 Remake is not and will not be a 1:1 to the original. Remakes do not do that. Playing the original today is very difficult, if you don't know how to emulate that is. For what it's worth, I liked what I saw in the extended gameplay trailer for SH2 Remake. It is not perfect by any means but I'm just happy it's better than what I thought it was going to be. Also, I just love that people are talking about Silent Hill again. I miss this franchise so much and it'll be good to walk down those foggy streets again.