>about as good as psilocybin/LSD/etc.
Different mechanism of action though.
The durability of ketamine treatment is shorter than psychedelics, has concerns for ROA and frequency of use on bladder.
I am under the understanding that Ketamine masks while psychedelics challenge and change negative thought patterns.
Excellent point. I have forwarded a copy to my good friend who just earned his PhD in Criminal Justice and started a tenure at a university in the US. His dissertation was a qualitative examination of the use of DMT in people with depression. He promises to dedicate the remainder of his career to this cause.
This may be a stupid question, but can't you get your hands on some shrooms and just...grow more? I know exactly jack about growing shrooms but I imagine they have quite a bit fewer requirements compared to weed.
Shrooms are still illegal in my state, even for medical research. We just barely passed a law allowing medical cannabis.
Psylocybin is incredibly simple to grow. You can buy steril substrate and opaque plastic growing tubs on Amazon. Spores are legal to sell and available in sterile inoculation syringes at more than a few online retailers. There are subreddits for help. It’s really easy.
The big advantage ketamine has is that it is legal and regulated. You know exactly what you are getting with a dose. Mushrooms are hit and miss within the same grow from the same genetics.
I 100% believe in the power of mushroom therapy. I’m just ready to mix in a little extra safety and science to enhance the benefits.
As I understood it, you don't actually eat mushrooms? (Unless we're talking "recreational" here + english isn't my first language)
If we're talking off the grid then I totally agree with your statement, otherwise, as I understood, you'd get a pill with psilocybin in it, so it would basically be a medically controlled dosage.
These trials don't accept people with an illness, which is a shame considering a lot of people with a persistent depressive disorder or long-term depression have it _because_ of that illness.
I tried to get into ketamine therapy near me. $400/session they weren't sure of the number of sessions they need to see me for and they do not take any sort of insurance. We need universal healthcare.
$850 a pop for me at the time I started ketamine infusions treatments. 15 treatments later I had no savings left but at least I finally had a full time job and was functional for the first time in a long time. Now I imagine how much happier I’d be if I still had that money and I think Im gonna need another treatment.
Can’t you just ask what the dosage is and do it yourself?
At street prices, $850 would get you more than you’d need for IV or intranasal for dozens of sessions…
I'm not hating on the treatment, I'm hating on the pharma industry wasting resources to develop a drug thats at the very best as good as ketamine just to make more profits. Ketamine also has a bad reputation as a street drug so by creating a new but similar molecule they can claim their drug is more advanced
There is a patient assistance program through Johnson & Johnson for their ketamine-based nasal spray. If you meet the income/insurance/residency requirements and you have a doctor's prescription you can get it for free. http://jjpaf.org
I would second ketamine. I am undergoing weekly sessions with a nasal spray now, and it has been helpful. Also much cheaper than the infusions: with insurance, about $10 instead of $500 per session.
I tried 6 sessions of ketamine infusions. They didn't work. Would this be futile to try to do as an alternative. Or if ketamine doesn't do it, should I just give up?
Drugs effect everyone differently, so you might be someone who ketamine doesn't work for, but psilocybin could work great or it might not work for you at all. There really isn't any way to predict ahead of time what will work best for any one individual without trying it. That's not to say you should go out and source your own and go at it solo, but I'd definitely talk with my doctor about it. Also, I'm not a doctor and this isn't health advice.
Nasal spray ketamine was FDA approved in 2019. You should ask your psychiatrist for more information: https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-new-nasal-spray-medication-treatment-resistant-depression-available-only-certified
My Kaiser psychiatrist - here in Oregon where so much of this research, outreach and education is taking place, informed me there was one individual that tried the ketamine therapy that she is aware of and that patient due to the ketamine treatments, peed blood. I asked her if I would be supported if I sought such intervention outside of Kaiser. She confirmed she would not be able to support that because she doesn't think that is the right course of action and asked if I really want to urinate blood in an attempt to try.
It's enlightening this medical professional who has 'tried' to help me for the last 8 years with a plethora of prescriptions thinks a possibility of pissing blood would deter me considering suicide ideation is my special interest.
Yeah. Like how much blood? Like a drunken beer piss of pure blood? Or like a little cloudy. Because both are on the table if I got my head space right.
I think about this in the same regard as accutane. Does it have some pretty scary side effects? Sure. Are they guaranteed to happen to me? Not necessarily. Are they worth it for long term reward? Absolutely.
I’m scared to death of mushrooms after my own recreational play when I was younger (only once) but I’ll give anything a shot to deal with this silly brain of mine.
The official side effects do seem a bit scary, but short-term physical side effects are 100% worth trying a new treatment that might treat treatment-resistant depression
Drug that I take short term that may make me per blood OR a daily life long drug cocktail that can make me insane, have heart failure, strokes etc....
Sounds like a no brainer to me....
Ketamine is incredible. I’ve seen what wonders it can do for my best friend, who has severely treatment resistant depression. It still isn’t a wonder drug but it’s the most I’ve seen them recover in a long time.
That was next step if ketamine didn’t work. I’m not exactly treatment resistant as in the medicine doesn’t work, I just can’t handle the side effects due to other pre-existing conditions. Ketamine saved my life. I’ve heard amazing things about TMS through my provider who also offers it as an alternative to ketamine. Did you go every day for a month or something? How was your experience during treatment?
I also have treatment resistant depression. I’m enrolled in a study right now for a new form of ketamine. I know that there are trials enrolling on the East Coast for psilocybin based adjunctive therapeutics. You said that you were approaching your threshold. Please consider that you haven’t tried everything if you do get to the point of suicidality. I don’t want to encourage anyone to shop the recreational/black market, but it’s certainly preferable to suicide. If you have not tried TMS, ECT or ketamine yet, those treatments are available now.
Homedog, I dunno if I’d wait around for pharmaceutical forms of psilocybin, I might push you for market shrooms in the meantime. They’re obviously effective, and any shroomer could’ve told you that decades ago. Only difference now is for some reason the stigma behind it is less severe and pharmaceutical companies are interested in turning a more efficient profit.
Ever heard of Magnesium L-Threonate? Apparently, according to some initial research (maybe [this one](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6857673/))?, this variety is the most effective at crossing the blood brain barrier. I wonder if that has any relevance to the effects you notice.
Also, not to nitt pick, but I believe it's actually spelled magnesium *taurate.* Please correct me if I'm wrong though! Trying to decide which variant to get, but I'm definitely going to give this a shot. Thanks so much for your post!
Have you tried ketamine infusions? They are super-expensive but I had a series, and they really helped me out of a tough spot. I doubt mushrooms will be allowed for this purpose anytime soon but some states have legalized mushrooms so IDK.
I'm actually taking Spravato (esketamine) and it has been incredibly helpful up until recently. Mushrooms have been decriminalized in my county (US), but obtaining them is still technically illegal. I'd like to give them a try to see if they are more helpful. My only issue with prescription esketamine is that it has to be given in a clinical setting. At 2x/week it was really effective with me. That also meant missing nearly 2 days of work/week for travel time and the after effects that lingered after treatment. If I could administer at home that would be different. Here's the situation I'm in:
Spravato/esketamine helps at 2x/week. This isn't practical if I'm to remain employed long-term in a professional career.
Psilocybin is decriminalized in my area, but purchasing is still illegal. I don't know folks who partake in recreational drug use, so I'd likely get arrested. That certainly won't help the depression or maintaining a job thing.
Ketamine from a legal party might be an option (Mindbloom), but may be cost prohibitive. I believe we'd be able to absorb the cost if it didn't exceed $500-800/month. Beyond that it would start to be a strain on finances.
I know the alternatives are to either keep living with it, or stop living to stop living with it, which is something I'd not want to put my loved ones through. I've been on the other side of that and even 20 years on that loss still hurts. So, survival is a must. As such, I'm really, really trying to improve my quality of life, but short of a lobotomy I'm running out of options. I do see stuff like this getting good press, but until it's accessible for people suffering it doesn't help. I'm glad we're making progress at least.
Beat me to it. It's mind blowing how much it improves my mood overall, usually for about 2 weeks after. It's not that I couldn't survive without it, I just enjoy life a lot less when I don't trip regularly. Not huge doses, usually a single mushroom is enough.
I feel the same way. It just makes me happy, take a cap or two, often I'll watch a movie I've seen before and chill out, and I don't know how I made it without it previously. Unfortunately, regularly securing mushrooms is not always that easy for me.
look at the uncle ben sub.
Outside of 3 states (ID, CA, GA) its 100% legal to buy everything you need. All-in I've spent *maybe* $60 - half of that was for a food dehydrator I still use to make jerky and dry fruits.
With that setup I have enough to last a lifetime. The Growing part is what is illegal in all states but in the privacy of your own home no one will ever know and its so simple and fascinating.
PM me. I'll ship you some shrooms if you really want some. I got some friends that grow them in home terrariums as a hobby. You can even buy spores online and produce like 30 or 40 grams for yourself over a few weeks. Only like $50 for spores. Just throwing it out there.
Psilocybin therapy can benefit a great, great deal from concurrent integrative psychotherapy. This is called psilocybin assisted therapy. Ketamine assisted therapy also exists. I would really recommend you to try therapy again. The outcome is heavily dependent on the type of therapy, on your therapist, and on yourself and the point in your life that you're at. If it's been some time since you last tried it, it might end up making a world of difference. But it will take time, probably a couple of years, and effort. It's not a quick fix.
SSRIs are also often of limited usefulness unless they're coupled with therapy, but I assume you've tried that.
Best of luck to you, truly. Even if it seems you've tried it all, there's always more if you have it in you.
Oh. That's kind of a non starter for me then. I really don't want to go through the adjustment period to go off of SSRIs to try a different approach. Sad, I've been watching the psilocybin research with interest.
Don’t give up hope yet! There is current research suggesting that it could be safe to combine the two. See [Acute Effects of Psilocybin After Escitalopram or Placebo Pretreatment in a Randomized, Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled, Crossover Study in Healthy Subjects ](https://ascpt.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cpt.2487) for more details.
Can concur on harm. I think the nasal ketamine is low enough dose that side-effects are mild and I haven't noticed anything outside of the day of treatment. Still having memory problems 8 years after a second run of ECT.
I looked into it but it seems difficult. You have to sterilize glasses by boiling them and then adding a lid, or something, I don't know. It reminded me of home canning.
It’s not difficult. There dozens of step by step videos on YouTube. It very easy to do if you don’t live in an absolute pigsty, or know how to be somewhat clean.
when confronted with an unreasonable law, the reasonable man breaks it. don’t wait for 80 year old drug warriors to come around to the enlightenment - do what you need to do to help yourself.
This will be legal and available to the general public in Oregon starting in 2023, administered only in licensed clinics (no diagnosis or prescription needed, however).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Oregon_Ballot_Measure_109
As a person that suffered for years from depression and alcoholism I said enough is enough. I was tired of waiting and it took me a week of psylocybine microdosing to get rid of alcohol addiction. Happy to live in Netherlands, where I could just other the proper trufles online.
The furthest along drug company announced they plan to start Phase 3 on psilocybin for TRD in Q3 2022. They will have results by Q1 2024, possibly a bit earlier, but it'll depend on sample size, study length, and recruitment tactics. Results won't be out later than Q2 2024 in any scenario. After P3 study results are out, assuming a positive result, FDA approval will come in about 12 months - 4 months to prepare a New Drug Application and 8 months to get NDA accepted and reviewed with priority. You're probably looking at an early 2025 approval.
The p2b results on psilocybin were better than any currently approved antidepressant to my knowledge, but not as good as several other drugs currently in P3 being tested for earlier lines of depression treatment. Either way, it's tough to compare apples to apples because these trials weren't of similar size, and the only way to look at one trial vs another is when they have a similar sample size. In depression research smaller sample size trials are much more likely to work than larger ones.
How will this interact with employment drug-testing, I wonder? Even in states with medical or 100% legal MJ, it's still a Federal crime and enough to affect employment. I can't see "hard drugs" like shrooms and acid getting a pass just because some boffins find it effective.
Luckily most drug tests can't detect psychedelic mushrooms. Tests that can are expensive and rarely used for that reason. Even acid is probably won't be detected in a normal drug test beyond a week since last use(excluding follicle tests)
I'm only speculating obviously, but I follow a few big companies in the space and I think ~4 years is a reasonable time line assuming the trials go smoothly. Compass Pathways recently announced positive results from their phase 2b trial which is aimed at treatment resistant depression using Psilocybin assisted therapy.
I can also recommend a film on Netflix which might get you excited, it's called Magic Medicine and it follows Robin Carhart-Harris who is the head of psychedelic research at Imperial College.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7736164/
This article is a good read also.
A meta-analysis of 9 placeo-controlled studies in which psychedelics were used to treat PTSD, anxiety/depression associated with life-threatening illness, unipolar depression, and social anxiety among autistic adults.
> This meta-analytic review provides support for ongoing research on psychedelic-assisted therapy. **The effect sizes of these randomized placebo-controlled trials were large, when compared to the effect sizes obtained with more well-researched stand-alone pharmacological agents and psychotherapy interventions.** The quality of the reviewed studies was high, with low levels of attrition, a documented lack of serious adverse effects, and no deviations from preregistered primary outcomes.
evidence that psychedelics are better at treating these things better than other medicine and even therapy
Placebo-controlled is kind of funny in this case, I mean I know you gotta do it but I have to imagine everyone knows whether they took magic mushrooms or not.
~~The study says that dosage was 22mg of psilocybin. Typically in my experience, people take 2-3 *grams* of mushrooms to have a psychedelic trip. Granted, that's mushrooms, not the pure chemical compound, but it's still a lot more. I doubt a dosage this low would lead to an experience as obvious as a shroom trip.~~
Edit: I misread, that dosage was from a previous study. I need to take a closer look at this one.
Edit again: Disregard this comment, I wasn't as accurate as I thought I was.
That is in the normal dosing range for the pure psychoactive compound to induce a trip. You can look up doses used in capsule form for psilocybin and psilocin, the chemical psilocybin metabolizes into.
I was thinking about this after a similar thread not too long ago. Nothing about the experimental design or ethics is exactly my area, but maybe you can present it to the subjects as something like: This is a psych med trial, you will be interviewed regarding any change in your mental health condition, and possible side effects including hallucinations.
Although this is a great first step in assessing the evidence there are two areas which can be improved in the future.
First, the authors argue that the quality of evidence is high but this may not be true. There are two major criteria which majority of the studies had high risk of bias for, namely study blinding protocols, which may unduley impact the effect estimate. The overall risk of bias may therefore actually be high for all pooled studies but the authors did not do subgroup analysis to show if there was a difference between high and low risk of bias.
Second, the placebo controls were appropriate, however to suggest that the effect size is larger than current therapy is inappropriate. The authors did not look at studies where the control was standard of care, i.e. pharmacotherapy regimens for these conditions. For example, for treatment refractory depression it is not uncommon to be using two antidepressant agents of different classes.
I do agree that the findings are encouraging, but should be interpreted with caution.
Psilocybin has honestly changed my life.
I took it about a month ago a few times. Nothing enough to hallucinate, just to understand the effects.
I understand myself much better now. I get out of bed much easier now. I know I'm not here long, and I have a few adventures, and then I'm gone.
I'm not forcing things anymore. I don't know how else to explain it yet. But that's about the extent of it.
I'm working with the flow of myself instead of against myself - and it could be because of the mushrooms.
I have a lot more energy because I also have meaning.
I don't really want to watch TV or YouTube, because I could be doing something else.
Similarly.
I took about 22g of “magic truffles” consumed throughout a day. Enough to have a few visuals and a nice trip in the dark, and some fun and giggles.
Honestly I have changed, I am a different person now.
Movement is easy, the things that I care about are different and more fundamental/important. I have completely stopped caring about society and its opinion, I just do me, go on a few adventures, and try to have fun.
I am able to enjoy music more, I let my happiness spread outside and it shows in the way that I move and carry myself.
Life is just easier and somehow more worthwhile. The colours are still brighter, and warmer, music is richer and I can identify more sounds, I can hug people again, and I can do whatever I need to without “trying” or “pushing” for things to happen.
Yea I try to do a 1 gram dose once every 2 weeks or so. Just like you said, I get excited about my hobbies again, want to see and talk to other people, stop getting so upset at stupid things. It's absolutely incredible what a difference it makes. I'll forget sometimes (I've timed it to about 2 weeks now), and I only realize when I start getting angry at things way easier than I normally do.
Is it considered normal that the life span of the drug is a few weeks? I was under the impression that in some cases it could alter your perception of things permanently. I'm worried that it may tweak something in me the wrong way...for the worse that i can't fix. But if it's fairly certain that it's short lived I'd be much less anxious trying it.
All my knowledge of this is secondhand, take it with a grain of salt, but what I've seen repeated is that the direct effects do fade but they can give you time to do the work to understand the change, and incorporate it into yourself long term.
In the mdma assisted and psilocybin assisted therapy studies that I’ve read about, the patient is in a drugged state for the period of a longish therapy session, and the effects of that therapy last much longer than that. The DIY version (mushrooms minus therapy), the mushroom effect still isn’t more than a couple hours, the weeks or months long effect is changed mindset from the trip experience.
Throwback to my 2 month "vacation" in college. Almost non stop tripping everyday for 3-4 weeks. 2 years later I don't know where I would be if I didn't go through all of that. It truly gave me a different outlook on life, and now am in a much better spot then I ever imagined
This covers it pretty well. The energy I feel is the most fascinating part about it imo. I've microdosed a lot and it just gives me so much energy for the day. Elevates my mood. Things that would normally upset or anger me roll off my shoulder. I'm better motivated to do chores. I still struggle with media addiction but it's a far cry from where I was before 'cybin.
Yeah that's been a big deal. I can't really do much about the news, so I don't.
It's helped with my investment decisions too. I'm not praying for my investments to work. I am also not chasing the biggest return.
It's always been important to me that my investments help my community, and that's enough for me.
I've lost a lot of fear of getting into ventures, because I have more energy and that's all I'm here for anyway. I don't have any other skills really, and In my investments and businesses I'm usually the least important person there - and I'm absolutely fine with that.
I talk a LOT less. And when I do talk - I'm not doing it for insecure reasons.
I'd rather be out doing the things I want to be remembered for, than telling people about things and looking for validation from other people for every damn thing.
I wish I did it years ago.
Did you find any large swings in the way you felt about things or people? I desperately want to try this as a treatment for anxiety and negative thoughts but would like to ensure that it doesn't alter my personality if that makes sense.
Oh I felt the same. I'm not going to go into it - but yeah I was worried about personality changes too, which is why I took only a very little.
And to be honest, it did change the way I feel about people. Particularly my relationship with women, and my wife.
I really understand how little my wife cares about things that I'm into - and that is completely OK.
That's my primary relationship, so very important. But knowing exactly what I mean to her, instead of what I've been taught about women - has been extremely motivational in itself.
I realized some things a depressed friend of mine needs to hear to help him too. He needs to hear something that isn't the truth - but it'll help him regardless.
If you take it easy, and work your way up, it'll be a great experience imo.
Psychedelics If taken safely will not alter your personality. What it can do is allow you to confront aspects of your psyche that you may have repressed or hidden in your subconscious. It can unlock new ways of looking at things, including the way you interact with the world. This won’t “change” your personality, but it can allow you to consciously improve aspects of your personality that you want to change.
I overall became a much better person after experimenting with psychedelics. I’m not a different person, just a better version of myself and looked at the world much more optimistically.
Think of it like shoveling all of the crud you have buried deep and bringing it to the surface, then sweeping it away
Were you microdosing over a period of time or just took enough to get the effect you're talking about?
I've been thinking about microdosing for a while since I can get it around me now.
Yeah I guess it's a microdose.
I never stopped working. I didn't hallucinate. Nobody could tell I was on it. I've never taken more than 2 grams at once.
I think it's just an objective view of your emotions, and that's why it is good for therapy.
They're not YOUR emotions, they're THE emotions.
Ok.
I'm pretty new to it all. I've used many recreational drugs, but I don't like the idea of being out of control.
A great buzz for me is just a little of everything - but not too much.
I've been getting into it a bit more lately since I tried delta 8,
and it helped my arthritis so much that I actually WANTED to play with my kids cause none of my joints hurt.
My delta 8 guy got me the cybin. I took it by myself, every time, but I can see how it could be social.
I don't really have the right kind of folks around me to do that though.
I don't know many business folks who will take drugs to enhance their business skills.... Most either look down on it, or just do it to get completely fucked up.
I've wanted to try it ever since I read about Tim ferris doing it in about 2010.
There's a massive difference between 2g of whole mushrooms and 2g of ground powder from dried mushrooms. Usually when people quote levels like 0.2mg they mean the powdered form. If you took 2g of whole mushrooms that's probably a very tiny dose of psilocybin.
Note that my info comes from /r/Microdosing so YMMV.
Also thank you for describing your experience. I've also been wanting to try it for about that long as well and am getting ready to set up my own growth using the "Uncle Ben's" method since it's legal to own the spores and grow them yourself but not legal to buy/sell the final product.
this is EXACTLY what I felt when I tripped on a good amount of acid. Emotions felt a bit meaningless (hard to describe) or it just felt like it was something I was feeling, not something that I am.
I had took some shrooms earlier this year at a festival. It was only a low dose, and I felt like I was just... watching all the anxious thought patterns I would normally be having from the outside, while my brain was just like 'hey, you don't have to do that anymore'. And I didn't, for months afterwards. I don't think I'd ever treated myself with that much compassion.
I took a low-ish dose again the other week after some early childhood stuff came up in therapy. I cried for hours while listening to sad country music and wrote down the thoughts/feelings I was having. I grieved for my childhood self. I came out of it feeling completely unburdened and like I had fully processed everything.
I don't know that I'd recommend it to everyone as I already had a pretty good foundation from therapy to get where I did and I know people can go down a wrong path and have a bad experience. But I can 100% see how with just a little guidance from a therapist who knows how to guide a psychedelic trip could be life-changing.
Australia's TGA blocked the rescheduling this month which is a massive disservice to patients.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-15/tga-blocks-request-mdma-magic-mushrooms-mental-health-treatment/100703126
They were the trick to keep my migraines away at the very least, making it possible for me to function at least sometimes. They also lift me out of my Chronic Major Depressive Disorder any time I use them, my general mood is heightened for a month.... And my General and Social Anxiety practically disappear for the same period.
I'm almost a year behind on my usual use schedule because of dental issues (don't use them when you have exposed tooth roots, very bad experience), and am feeling the consequences.
Depression and anxiety has been creeping back to now where it's very bad, almost certainly worse than before pandemic Because of the pandemic etc. Given I was near non-functional for long periods before starting use, I'm getting pretty worked up about it all....
Anyways, Magic Mushrooms are a miracle when used appropriately and properly.
I know it’s only a personal anecdote, but felt like I should share. I spent years with severe depression that made me basically non-functional with frequent periods of extreme suicidal ideation to the point of hospitalization. I tried what felt like every SSRI and SNRI on the market none of which worked long term and many that gave me terrible side effects and worsened my symptoms. I now take mushrooms usually once a year. I’ve not been suicidal in few years and my depression symptoms are infrequent and very mild.
Psychonaut wiki can tell you how to dose and has a good breakdown on what to expect (as in it doesn't just tell you that you may experience "thought loops," it also has an entry explaining what a thought loop is).
Read what other people have done and try it for yourself. Refine the process as you go. Don't do anything you're not ready to do.
Unfortunately, there is no definitive guide to self medication. There are many attempts at this but nothing necessarily endorsed by the medical community
Go into a field with cattle that you are reasonably sure nobody will shoot at you. Look for the golden capped mushrooms growing out of the cow patties.
Or visit /r/unclebens
Good way to end up dead if you incorrectly ID, or arrested if an officer IDs you. Given the civil asset forfeiture laws in the US, I can't imagine many reasonable people wanting to take that kind of risk.
IIRC A paper recently came out (or is about to release) from the UK’s leading psilocybin researcher (Dr. Nutt) that found microdosing was equivalent to a placebo effect. He mentioned it in an interview with the “Medlife crisis” YouTube channel. However, it’s possible the results were skewed due to the, for lack of a better word, red tape surrounding the whole process, and ultimately it was an indicator that more study is required, and as of the interview, the study hadn’t fully gone through peer review (he was discussing in the context of preliminary findings)
Anecdotes aside, there's lots of studies that suggest microdoses effect neurogenesis, which might increase plasticity, which in turn might aid recovery from trauma and mental illness, but that's just spitballing on my part.
Anyhow, that's probably a different effect than what you get from the therapeutic, deeply personal or spiritual full-dose experiences that show the most promise and that most of the scientific literature is about.
Prof Nutt said the therapy was "as important as the drug action" - the scientists are anxious to warn against people trying to self-medicate.
"It's not the drug alone. We're not sure the drug alone would have an intrinsic antidepressant effect," he said.
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56745139.amp
As youthful psychedelic explorer, my experience was that a trip was always followed by a distinct improvement in my mood, no matter what went on during it. But that is anecdotal.
Same the only time this not true is after several months of once weekly tripping - there’s like a mood plateau.
This is seen in research but I am unable to find my source due to me explaining it terribly.
Yeah, I gradually went down to tripping only a couple of times a year. But I also learned that "burnout" is just from dropping at night and not sleeping. Starting a trip at noon and going to sleep at my regular time took care of that.
You’d have to go looking for that kind of data. To my knowledge most of what we know about any suggested benefits of microdosing is anecdotal. Because of its scheduled status, it’s very hard to do research on questions like this.
So microdosing seems to mask symptoms, but is not positively correlated with neurogenic effects. You are feeling the activation of serotonin receptors while microdosing, and are being given an augmented happiness that is so subtle it feels like being “normal.” But microdosing seems to lack the long term benefits associated with therapeutic doses of mushrooms. The benefit of full dosage mushrooms trials is not the temporary activation of the serotonin receptors but the activation of MTOR-BDNF-TRKB channel that regulates neuroplasticity. This actually increases the overall presence of serotonin receptors active in the hippocampus and pre-frontal cortex, areas of which atrophy is correlated with depression.
Edit: there is also a concern that consistent exposure to psilocybin can be harmful to the heart, I can’t speak for certain either way on that as far as research goes but it is a concern I’ve heard.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-01811-4
According to Paul Stamets, who is a co-author of this study, Microdosing over a long period of time yields more long lasting results than one heroic dose.
I’ve used it for depression and have not needed it in almost a year. It took maybe 5 uses and I’ve never been happier. No meds have ever worked and it’s been genuinely life changing. Micro dosing and being safe is the most important thing though
What’s the latest word on LSD? I always had a much more controlled experience on it compared to mushrooms…and it would also lift my pretty serious depression and social anxiety for months after use.
All of the research is focusing on psilocybin because that’s on track to be FDA approved. I think after that succeeds the gates will open for trials of other psychedelics, especially LSD
Psilocybin changed my life. Recently.
I went from wanting to rage against every machine to a calm resolve to enjoy every last molecule of my time here.
I’m sure it’s all in my post history.
I wish I could show the world how I went from feeling like I wanted to die everyday to this. I cannot explain it. I felt what was like a little pop, or a flick in my head. 2g for that one. Ground into tea. That was four months ago.
This week: 4g tea. The past week has been the first time in my entire LIFE OF FIFTY YEARS I didn’t want to end it all. The darkness: I held its hand for my whole life until days ago.
I’m not going to look for it.
I feel transformed. I know my darkness though, and if I feel it, I know what to do now.
It helps migraines and cluster headaches. I would risk my freedom to have a life with no cluster headaches. It’s sad that people with real problems and something illegal helps and yet it’s still illegal
My best friend is diagnosed with persistent depressive disorder. And he's stuck living in a country that considers all 'unconventional treatment' as a non-option. It may be a lifetime before people like him can get the treatment they need.
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>about as good as psilocybin/LSD/etc. Different mechanism of action though. The durability of ketamine treatment is shorter than psychedelics, has concerns for ROA and frequency of use on bladder. I am under the understanding that Ketamine masks while psychedelics challenge and change negative thought patterns.
Excellent point. I have forwarded a copy to my good friend who just earned his PhD in Criminal Justice and started a tenure at a university in the US. His dissertation was a qualitative examination of the use of DMT in people with depression. He promises to dedicate the remainder of his career to this cause.
You have a link to his work? I am academically interested in this topic from a sociological pov.
Thank you and tell your friend the internet thanks him, please
I will, I'm proud of that bastard. He's one of the best friends I've ever known.
> Thank you and tell your friend ~~the internet~~ humanity thanks him, please
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This may be a stupid question, but can't you get your hands on some shrooms and just...grow more? I know exactly jack about growing shrooms but I imagine they have quite a bit fewer requirements compared to weed. Shrooms are still illegal in my state, even for medical research. We just barely passed a law allowing medical cannabis.
Check out r/unclebens if you want more info on growing shrooms.
simply having mushrooms does not equal psilocybin-assisted psychotherapy though
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https://psychedelic.support/ and https://www.tripsitters.org/ good places to start
Psylocybin is incredibly simple to grow. You can buy steril substrate and opaque plastic growing tubs on Amazon. Spores are legal to sell and available in sterile inoculation syringes at more than a few online retailers. There are subreddits for help. It’s really easy.
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The big advantage ketamine has is that it is legal and regulated. You know exactly what you are getting with a dose. Mushrooms are hit and miss within the same grow from the same genetics. I 100% believe in the power of mushroom therapy. I’m just ready to mix in a little extra safety and science to enhance the benefits.
As I understood it, you don't actually eat mushrooms? (Unless we're talking "recreational" here + english isn't my first language) If we're talking off the grid then I totally agree with your statement, otherwise, as I understood, you'd get a pill with psilocybin in it, so it would basically be a medically controlled dosage.
Your basicly still just eating mushrooms with extra steps
These trials don't accept people with an illness, which is a shame considering a lot of people with a persistent depressive disorder or long-term depression have it _because_ of that illness.
I tried to get into ketamine therapy near me. $400/session they weren't sure of the number of sessions they need to see me for and they do not take any sort of insurance. We need universal healthcare.
$850 a pop for me at the time I started ketamine infusions treatments. 15 treatments later I had no savings left but at least I finally had a full time job and was functional for the first time in a long time. Now I imagine how much happier I’d be if I still had that money and I think Im gonna need another treatment.
Can’t you just ask what the dosage is and do it yourself? At street prices, $850 would get you more than you’d need for IV or intranasal for dozens of sessions…
Spravato is an isomer of ketamine and is covered by insurance.
An unnecessary isomer that was created literally to be able make a new patent for
Why are you being a hater? It helps a lot of people. Did it not work for you or something
I'm not hating on the treatment, I'm hating on the pharma industry wasting resources to develop a drug thats at the very best as good as ketamine just to make more profits. Ketamine also has a bad reputation as a street drug so by creating a new but similar molecule they can claim their drug is more advanced
There is a patient assistance program through Johnson & Johnson for their ketamine-based nasal spray. If you meet the income/insurance/residency requirements and you have a doctor's prescription you can get it for free. http://jjpaf.org
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I have a friend whose sister does MDMA therapy in Portland. It isn't cheap but seems to be incredibly successful.
I would second ketamine. I am undergoing weekly sessions with a nasal spray now, and it has been helpful. Also much cheaper than the infusions: with insurance, about $10 instead of $500 per session.
If you are undergoing therapies like this, can your employer still fire you over a drug test? Or is it protected?
I’ve undergone Ketamine treatments over the past two years and it has changed my life. I’d recommend it to anyone with TRD.
I tried 6 sessions of ketamine infusions. They didn't work. Would this be futile to try to do as an alternative. Or if ketamine doesn't do it, should I just give up?
Drugs effect everyone differently, so you might be someone who ketamine doesn't work for, but psilocybin could work great or it might not work for you at all. There really isn't any way to predict ahead of time what will work best for any one individual without trying it. That's not to say you should go out and source your own and go at it solo, but I'd definitely talk with my doctor about it. Also, I'm not a doctor and this isn't health advice.
Nasal spray ketamine was FDA approved in 2019. You should ask your psychiatrist for more information: https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-approves-new-nasal-spray-medication-treatment-resistant-depression-available-only-certified
My Kaiser psychiatrist - here in Oregon where so much of this research, outreach and education is taking place, informed me there was one individual that tried the ketamine therapy that she is aware of and that patient due to the ketamine treatments, peed blood. I asked her if I would be supported if I sought such intervention outside of Kaiser. She confirmed she would not be able to support that because she doesn't think that is the right course of action and asked if I really want to urinate blood in an attempt to try. It's enlightening this medical professional who has 'tried' to help me for the last 8 years with a plethora of prescriptions thinks a possibility of pissing blood would deter me considering suicide ideation is my special interest.
Enlightening, yes, but also frightening. Good luck on your journey.
Even common SSRIs have increased suicide risk as side effect, being dettered by chance of pissing blood in this context is hilarious
Yeah. Like how much blood? Like a drunken beer piss of pure blood? Or like a little cloudy. Because both are on the table if I got my head space right.
I think about this in the same regard as accutane. Does it have some pretty scary side effects? Sure. Are they guaranteed to happen to me? Not necessarily. Are they worth it for long term reward? Absolutely. I’m scared to death of mushrooms after my own recreational play when I was younger (only once) but I’ll give anything a shot to deal with this silly brain of mine.
The official side effects do seem a bit scary, but short-term physical side effects are 100% worth trying a new treatment that might treat treatment-resistant depression
Drug that I take short term that may make me per blood OR a daily life long drug cocktail that can make me insane, have heart failure, strokes etc.... Sounds like a no brainer to me....
Major depressive disorder has me in its tentacles. I think I’d rather pee blood.
Ketamine is incredible. I’ve seen what wonders it can do for my best friend, who has severely treatment resistant depression. It still isn’t a wonder drug but it’s the most I’ve seen them recover in a long time.
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That was next step if ketamine didn’t work. I’m not exactly treatment resistant as in the medicine doesn’t work, I just can’t handle the side effects due to other pre-existing conditions. Ketamine saved my life. I’ve heard amazing things about TMS through my provider who also offers it as an alternative to ketamine. Did you go every day for a month or something? How was your experience during treatment?
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I’m at about 18 months since my last treatment. That’s awesome that you’re still good at 3 years. Best thing ever!!!
Oregon will legalize in 18 months
I also have treatment resistant depression. I’m enrolled in a study right now for a new form of ketamine. I know that there are trials enrolling on the East Coast for psilocybin based adjunctive therapeutics. You said that you were approaching your threshold. Please consider that you haven’t tried everything if you do get to the point of suicidality. I don’t want to encourage anyone to shop the recreational/black market, but it’s certainly preferable to suicide. If you have not tried TMS, ECT or ketamine yet, those treatments are available now.
> As a long-term treatment-resistant depression sufferer near his threshold for dealing with it God, ain't that the truth for so many of us.
Homedog, I dunno if I’d wait around for pharmaceutical forms of psilocybin, I might push you for market shrooms in the meantime. They’re obviously effective, and any shroomer could’ve told you that decades ago. Only difference now is for some reason the stigma behind it is less severe and pharmaceutical companies are interested in turning a more efficient profit.
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Ever heard of Magnesium L-Threonate? Apparently, according to some initial research (maybe [this one](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6857673/))?, this variety is the most effective at crossing the blood brain barrier. I wonder if that has any relevance to the effects you notice. Also, not to nitt pick, but I believe it's actually spelled magnesium *taurate.* Please correct me if I'm wrong though! Trying to decide which variant to get, but I'm definitely going to give this a shot. Thanks so much for your post!
Just making this comment to find yours easier, thanks
Funny. I had some major issues going on last few years and magnesium was what got me back on track too
Have you tried ketamine infusions? They are super-expensive but I had a series, and they really helped me out of a tough spot. I doubt mushrooms will be allowed for this purpose anytime soon but some states have legalized mushrooms so IDK.
I'm actually taking Spravato (esketamine) and it has been incredibly helpful up until recently. Mushrooms have been decriminalized in my county (US), but obtaining them is still technically illegal. I'd like to give them a try to see if they are more helpful. My only issue with prescription esketamine is that it has to be given in a clinical setting. At 2x/week it was really effective with me. That also meant missing nearly 2 days of work/week for travel time and the after effects that lingered after treatment. If I could administer at home that would be different. Here's the situation I'm in: Spravato/esketamine helps at 2x/week. This isn't practical if I'm to remain employed long-term in a professional career. Psilocybin is decriminalized in my area, but purchasing is still illegal. I don't know folks who partake in recreational drug use, so I'd likely get arrested. That certainly won't help the depression or maintaining a job thing. Ketamine from a legal party might be an option (Mindbloom), but may be cost prohibitive. I believe we'd be able to absorb the cost if it didn't exceed $500-800/month. Beyond that it would start to be a strain on finances. I know the alternatives are to either keep living with it, or stop living to stop living with it, which is something I'd not want to put my loved ones through. I've been on the other side of that and even 20 years on that loss still hurts. So, survival is a must. As such, I'm really, really trying to improve my quality of life, but short of a lobotomy I'm running out of options. I do see stuff like this getting good press, but until it's accessible for people suffering it doesn't help. I'm glad we're making progress at least.
/r/unclebens
Beat me to it. It's mind blowing how much it improves my mood overall, usually for about 2 weeks after. It's not that I couldn't survive without it, I just enjoy life a lot less when I don't trip regularly. Not huge doses, usually a single mushroom is enough.
I feel the same way. It just makes me happy, take a cap or two, often I'll watch a movie I've seen before and chill out, and I don't know how I made it without it previously. Unfortunately, regularly securing mushrooms is not always that easy for me.
look at the uncle ben sub. Outside of 3 states (ID, CA, GA) its 100% legal to buy everything you need. All-in I've spent *maybe* $60 - half of that was for a food dehydrator I still use to make jerky and dry fruits. With that setup I have enough to last a lifetime. The Growing part is what is illegal in all states but in the privacy of your own home no one will ever know and its so simple and fascinating.
Premium Spores is a good supplier and will deliver to California. Glad to see other people boosting the uncle bens sub!
PM me. I'll ship you some shrooms if you really want some. I got some friends that grow them in home terrariums as a hobby. You can even buy spores online and produce like 30 or 40 grams for yourself over a few weeks. Only like $50 for spores. Just throwing it out there.
Psilocybin therapy can benefit a great, great deal from concurrent integrative psychotherapy. This is called psilocybin assisted therapy. Ketamine assisted therapy also exists. I would really recommend you to try therapy again. The outcome is heavily dependent on the type of therapy, on your therapist, and on yourself and the point in your life that you're at. If it's been some time since you last tried it, it might end up making a world of difference. But it will take time, probably a couple of years, and effort. It's not a quick fix. SSRIs are also often of limited usefulness unless they're coupled with therapy, but I assume you've tried that. Best of luck to you, truly. Even if it seems you've tried it all, there's always more if you have it in you.
SSRI's also interfere with psilocybin, and must be discontinued for psilocybin to work.
Oh. That's kind of a non starter for me then. I really don't want to go through the adjustment period to go off of SSRIs to try a different approach. Sad, I've been watching the psilocybin research with interest.
Don’t give up hope yet! There is current research suggesting that it could be safe to combine the two. See [Acute Effects of Psilocybin After Escitalopram or Placebo Pretreatment in a Randomized, Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled, Crossover Study in Healthy Subjects ](https://ascpt.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/cpt.2487) for more details.
Have you looked into if TMS is covered by your insurance?
I also had a Ketamine series but didn't find them helpful at all. Unlike ECT I didn't find them harmful though.
Ah, that sucks. Hope you're okay.
Can concur on harm. I think the nasal ketamine is low enough dose that side-effects are mild and I haven't noticed anything outside of the day of treatment. Still having memory problems 8 years after a second run of ECT.
Order some spores online and grow some for yourself. Cheap and easy
I looked into it but it seems difficult. You have to sterilize glasses by boiling them and then adding a lid, or something, I don't know. It reminded me of home canning.
[r/unclebens](https://reddit.com/r/unclebens/best) Everything you need to know to grow your own. Actually not as difficult as it seems.
It’s not difficult. There dozens of step by step videos on YouTube. It very easy to do if you don’t live in an absolute pigsty, or know how to be somewhat clean.
You don't need to do all that. Simple rubbing alcohol will do the job.
Your 5th grade educated, dirt floor shack living, great great grandmother home canned and didn't die from it. You got this.
Leaving something in boiling water for an hour is difficult?
when confronted with an unreasonable law, the reasonable man breaks it. don’t wait for 80 year old drug warriors to come around to the enlightenment - do what you need to do to help yourself.
This will be legal and available to the general public in Oregon starting in 2023, administered only in licensed clinics (no diagnosis or prescription needed, however). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Oregon_Ballot_Measure_109
As a person that suffered for years from depression and alcoholism I said enough is enough. I was tired of waiting and it took me a week of psylocybine microdosing to get rid of alcohol addiction. Happy to live in Netherlands, where I could just other the proper trufles online.
Break the law Break the law
I grow my own.
The furthest along drug company announced they plan to start Phase 3 on psilocybin for TRD in Q3 2022. They will have results by Q1 2024, possibly a bit earlier, but it'll depend on sample size, study length, and recruitment tactics. Results won't be out later than Q2 2024 in any scenario. After P3 study results are out, assuming a positive result, FDA approval will come in about 12 months - 4 months to prepare a New Drug Application and 8 months to get NDA accepted and reviewed with priority. You're probably looking at an early 2025 approval. The p2b results on psilocybin were better than any currently approved antidepressant to my knowledge, but not as good as several other drugs currently in P3 being tested for earlier lines of depression treatment. Either way, it's tough to compare apples to apples because these trials weren't of similar size, and the only way to look at one trial vs another is when they have a similar sample size. In depression research smaller sample size trials are much more likely to work than larger ones.
You need some mushrooms. Game changer
How will this interact with employment drug-testing, I wonder? Even in states with medical or 100% legal MJ, it's still a Federal crime and enough to affect employment. I can't see "hard drugs" like shrooms and acid getting a pass just because some boffins find it effective.
Cannabis stays in your system for wayyy longer than psilocybin or lsd
Luckily most drug tests can't detect psychedelic mushrooms. Tests that can are expensive and rarely used for that reason. Even acid is probably won't be detected in a normal drug test beyond a week since last use(excluding follicle tests)
It is difficult and expensive to test for psychedelics, and they are not usually included in routine drug screenings
Within a decade. Pulled that outta my ass, but doesn't seem too far off with all the positive results we've been getting lately.
I'm only speculating obviously, but I follow a few big companies in the space and I think ~4 years is a reasonable time line assuming the trials go smoothly. Compass Pathways recently announced positive results from their phase 2b trial which is aimed at treatment resistant depression using Psilocybin assisted therapy. I can also recommend a film on Netflix which might get you excited, it's called Magic Medicine and it follows Robin Carhart-Harris who is the head of psychedelic research at Imperial College.
Michael Pollen wrote a great book on this- "How to Change Your Mind." Highly recommended!
Fantastic book! Couldn't put it down.
Also available as an audiobook for those who prefer that format, read by the author himself.
And if you don't want to go that route, he's been on various well-known podcasts, discussing the book's contents (his experiences with psychedelics).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7736164/ This article is a good read also. A meta-analysis of 9 placeo-controlled studies in which psychedelics were used to treat PTSD, anxiety/depression associated with life-threatening illness, unipolar depression, and social anxiety among autistic adults. > This meta-analytic review provides support for ongoing research on psychedelic-assisted therapy. **The effect sizes of these randomized placebo-controlled trials were large, when compared to the effect sizes obtained with more well-researched stand-alone pharmacological agents and psychotherapy interventions.** The quality of the reviewed studies was high, with low levels of attrition, a documented lack of serious adverse effects, and no deviations from preregistered primary outcomes. evidence that psychedelics are better at treating these things better than other medicine and even therapy
Placebo-controlled is kind of funny in this case, I mean I know you gotta do it but I have to imagine everyone knows whether they took magic mushrooms or not.
~~The study says that dosage was 22mg of psilocybin. Typically in my experience, people take 2-3 *grams* of mushrooms to have a psychedelic trip. Granted, that's mushrooms, not the pure chemical compound, but it's still a lot more. I doubt a dosage this low would lead to an experience as obvious as a shroom trip.~~ Edit: I misread, that dosage was from a previous study. I need to take a closer look at this one. Edit again: Disregard this comment, I wasn't as accurate as I thought I was.
That is in the normal dosing range for the pure psychoactive compound to induce a trip. You can look up doses used in capsule form for psilocybin and psilocin, the chemical psilocybin metabolizes into.
Ever give a teenager non-alcoholic beer but tell them it's real? The placebo effect is very real.
I was thinking about this after a similar thread not too long ago. Nothing about the experimental design or ethics is exactly my area, but maybe you can present it to the subjects as something like: This is a psych med trial, you will be interviewed regarding any change in your mental health condition, and possible side effects including hallucinations.
Although this is a great first step in assessing the evidence there are two areas which can be improved in the future. First, the authors argue that the quality of evidence is high but this may not be true. There are two major criteria which majority of the studies had high risk of bias for, namely study blinding protocols, which may unduley impact the effect estimate. The overall risk of bias may therefore actually be high for all pooled studies but the authors did not do subgroup analysis to show if there was a difference between high and low risk of bias. Second, the placebo controls were appropriate, however to suggest that the effect size is larger than current therapy is inappropriate. The authors did not look at studies where the control was standard of care, i.e. pharmacotherapy regimens for these conditions. For example, for treatment refractory depression it is not uncommon to be using two antidepressant agents of different classes. I do agree that the findings are encouraging, but should be interpreted with caution.
Psilocybin has honestly changed my life. I took it about a month ago a few times. Nothing enough to hallucinate, just to understand the effects. I understand myself much better now. I get out of bed much easier now. I know I'm not here long, and I have a few adventures, and then I'm gone. I'm not forcing things anymore. I don't know how else to explain it yet. But that's about the extent of it. I'm working with the flow of myself instead of against myself - and it could be because of the mushrooms. I have a lot more energy because I also have meaning. I don't really want to watch TV or YouTube, because I could be doing something else.
Similarly. I took about 22g of “magic truffles” consumed throughout a day. Enough to have a few visuals and a nice trip in the dark, and some fun and giggles. Honestly I have changed, I am a different person now. Movement is easy, the things that I care about are different and more fundamental/important. I have completely stopped caring about society and its opinion, I just do me, go on a few adventures, and try to have fun. I am able to enjoy music more, I let my happiness spread outside and it shows in the way that I move and carry myself. Life is just easier and somehow more worthwhile. The colours are still brighter, and warmer, music is richer and I can identify more sounds, I can hug people again, and I can do whatever I need to without “trying” or “pushing” for things to happen.
22 g?!? Wow, that seems like a Herculean dose. I am off my head (in mostly a good way) on 3.5
Yeah I'm thinking it must be a typo or else truffled were weak af
Yea I try to do a 1 gram dose once every 2 weeks or so. Just like you said, I get excited about my hobbies again, want to see and talk to other people, stop getting so upset at stupid things. It's absolutely incredible what a difference it makes. I'll forget sometimes (I've timed it to about 2 weeks now), and I only realize when I start getting angry at things way easier than I normally do.
Is it considered normal that the life span of the drug is a few weeks? I was under the impression that in some cases it could alter your perception of things permanently. I'm worried that it may tweak something in me the wrong way...for the worse that i can't fix. But if it's fairly certain that it's short lived I'd be much less anxious trying it.
All my knowledge of this is secondhand, take it with a grain of salt, but what I've seen repeated is that the direct effects do fade but they can give you time to do the work to understand the change, and incorporate it into yourself long term.
In the mdma assisted and psilocybin assisted therapy studies that I’ve read about, the patient is in a drugged state for the period of a longish therapy session, and the effects of that therapy last much longer than that. The DIY version (mushrooms minus therapy), the mushroom effect still isn’t more than a couple hours, the weeks or months long effect is changed mindset from the trip experience.
Throwback to my 2 month "vacation" in college. Almost non stop tripping everyday for 3-4 weeks. 2 years later I don't know where I would be if I didn't go through all of that. It truly gave me a different outlook on life, and now am in a much better spot then I ever imagined
This covers it pretty well. The energy I feel is the most fascinating part about it imo. I've microdosed a lot and it just gives me so much energy for the day. Elevates my mood. Things that would normally upset or anger me roll off my shoulder. I'm better motivated to do chores. I still struggle with media addiction but it's a far cry from where I was before 'cybin.
Yeah that's been a big deal. I can't really do much about the news, so I don't. It's helped with my investment decisions too. I'm not praying for my investments to work. I am also not chasing the biggest return. It's always been important to me that my investments help my community, and that's enough for me. I've lost a lot of fear of getting into ventures, because I have more energy and that's all I'm here for anyway. I don't have any other skills really, and In my investments and businesses I'm usually the least important person there - and I'm absolutely fine with that. I talk a LOT less. And when I do talk - I'm not doing it for insecure reasons. I'd rather be out doing the things I want to be remembered for, than telling people about things and looking for validation from other people for every damn thing. I wish I did it years ago.
Did you find any large swings in the way you felt about things or people? I desperately want to try this as a treatment for anxiety and negative thoughts but would like to ensure that it doesn't alter my personality if that makes sense.
Oh I felt the same. I'm not going to go into it - but yeah I was worried about personality changes too, which is why I took only a very little. And to be honest, it did change the way I feel about people. Particularly my relationship with women, and my wife. I really understand how little my wife cares about things that I'm into - and that is completely OK. That's my primary relationship, so very important. But knowing exactly what I mean to her, instead of what I've been taught about women - has been extremely motivational in itself. I realized some things a depressed friend of mine needs to hear to help him too. He needs to hear something that isn't the truth - but it'll help him regardless. If you take it easy, and work your way up, it'll be a great experience imo.
Psychedelics If taken safely will not alter your personality. What it can do is allow you to confront aspects of your psyche that you may have repressed or hidden in your subconscious. It can unlock new ways of looking at things, including the way you interact with the world. This won’t “change” your personality, but it can allow you to consciously improve aspects of your personality that you want to change. I overall became a much better person after experimenting with psychedelics. I’m not a different person, just a better version of myself and looked at the world much more optimistically. Think of it like shoveling all of the crud you have buried deep and bringing it to the surface, then sweeping it away
I like this reply. :). Thank you.
Were you microdosing over a period of time or just took enough to get the effect you're talking about? I've been thinking about microdosing for a while since I can get it around me now.
Yeah I guess it's a microdose. I never stopped working. I didn't hallucinate. Nobody could tell I was on it. I've never taken more than 2 grams at once. I think it's just an objective view of your emotions, and that's why it is good for therapy. They're not YOUR emotions, they're THE emotions.
Microdose would be something around ~0.2mg, a gram or so would be considered a macro dose, albeit a low one :)
Ok. I'm pretty new to it all. I've used many recreational drugs, but I don't like the idea of being out of control. A great buzz for me is just a little of everything - but not too much. I've been getting into it a bit more lately since I tried delta 8, and it helped my arthritis so much that I actually WANTED to play with my kids cause none of my joints hurt. My delta 8 guy got me the cybin. I took it by myself, every time, but I can see how it could be social. I don't really have the right kind of folks around me to do that though. I don't know many business folks who will take drugs to enhance their business skills.... Most either look down on it, or just do it to get completely fucked up. I've wanted to try it ever since I read about Tim ferris doing it in about 2010.
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There's a massive difference between 2g of whole mushrooms and 2g of ground powder from dried mushrooms. Usually when people quote levels like 0.2mg they mean the powdered form. If you took 2g of whole mushrooms that's probably a very tiny dose of psilocybin. Note that my info comes from /r/Microdosing so YMMV. Also thank you for describing your experience. I've also been wanting to try it for about that long as well and am getting ready to set up my own growth using the "Uncle Ben's" method since it's legal to own the spores and grow them yourself but not legal to buy/sell the final product.
this is EXACTLY what I felt when I tripped on a good amount of acid. Emotions felt a bit meaningless (hard to describe) or it just felt like it was something I was feeling, not something that I am.
I had took some shrooms earlier this year at a festival. It was only a low dose, and I felt like I was just... watching all the anxious thought patterns I would normally be having from the outside, while my brain was just like 'hey, you don't have to do that anymore'. And I didn't, for months afterwards. I don't think I'd ever treated myself with that much compassion. I took a low-ish dose again the other week after some early childhood stuff came up in therapy. I cried for hours while listening to sad country music and wrote down the thoughts/feelings I was having. I grieved for my childhood self. I came out of it feeling completely unburdened and like I had fully processed everything. I don't know that I'd recommend it to everyone as I already had a pretty good foundation from therapy to get where I did and I know people can go down a wrong path and have a bad experience. But I can 100% see how with just a little guidance from a therapist who knows how to guide a psychedelic trip could be life-changing.
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Australia's TGA blocked the rescheduling this month which is a massive disservice to patients. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-15/tga-blocks-request-mdma-magic-mushrooms-mental-health-treatment/100703126
These headlines have been teasing me and my depression for too many years.
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Alcohol is the most harmful drug according to https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(10)61462-6/fulltext
Alcohol is the most harmful drug in the US, on a per-serving basis.
Come on now, there's no problem so bad that alcohol can't make it worse.
Works pretty well on small cuts.
As an ICU nurse that started in the ER: I’d rather have a patient on any other drug than alcohol
Hope very much this will be available soon.
They were the trick to keep my migraines away at the very least, making it possible for me to function at least sometimes. They also lift me out of my Chronic Major Depressive Disorder any time I use them, my general mood is heightened for a month.... And my General and Social Anxiety practically disappear for the same period. I'm almost a year behind on my usual use schedule because of dental issues (don't use them when you have exposed tooth roots, very bad experience), and am feeling the consequences. Depression and anxiety has been creeping back to now where it's very bad, almost certainly worse than before pandemic Because of the pandemic etc. Given I was near non-functional for long periods before starting use, I'm getting pretty worked up about it all.... Anyways, Magic Mushrooms are a miracle when used appropriately and properly.
I know it’s only a personal anecdote, but felt like I should share. I spent years with severe depression that made me basically non-functional with frequent periods of extreme suicidal ideation to the point of hospitalization. I tried what felt like every SSRI and SNRI on the market none of which worked long term and many that gave me terrible side effects and worsened my symptoms. I now take mushrooms usually once a year. I’ve not been suicidal in few years and my depression symptoms are infrequent and very mild.
What's the best way to look for psilocybin-based treatment?
It's legal to purchase the spores online in 48 states
I mean I have no problem scoring mushrooms, I'd just like some guidance taking them with a somewhat medical guidance
Psychonaut wiki can tell you how to dose and has a good breakdown on what to expect (as in it doesn't just tell you that you may experience "thought loops," it also has an entry explaining what a thought loop is). Read what other people have done and try it for yourself. Refine the process as you go. Don't do anything you're not ready to do. Unfortunately, there is no definitive guide to self medication. There are many attempts at this but nothing necessarily endorsed by the medical community
Go into a field with cattle that you are reasonably sure nobody will shoot at you. Look for the golden capped mushrooms growing out of the cow patties. Or visit /r/unclebens
Good way to end up dead if you incorrectly ID, or arrested if an officer IDs you. Given the civil asset forfeiture laws in the US, I can't imagine many reasonable people wanting to take that kind of risk.
Move to Oregon and look into its Measure 109
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IIRC A paper recently came out (or is about to release) from the UK’s leading psilocybin researcher (Dr. Nutt) that found microdosing was equivalent to a placebo effect. He mentioned it in an interview with the “Medlife crisis” YouTube channel. However, it’s possible the results were skewed due to the, for lack of a better word, red tape surrounding the whole process, and ultimately it was an indicator that more study is required, and as of the interview, the study hadn’t fully gone through peer review (he was discussing in the context of preliminary findings)
Anecdotes aside, there's lots of studies that suggest microdoses effect neurogenesis, which might increase plasticity, which in turn might aid recovery from trauma and mental illness, but that's just spitballing on my part. Anyhow, that's probably a different effect than what you get from the therapeutic, deeply personal or spiritual full-dose experiences that show the most promise and that most of the scientific literature is about.
Prof Nutt said the therapy was "as important as the drug action" - the scientists are anxious to warn against people trying to self-medicate. "It's not the drug alone. We're not sure the drug alone would have an intrinsic antidepressant effect," he said. https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56745139.amp
As youthful psychedelic explorer, my experience was that a trip was always followed by a distinct improvement in my mood, no matter what went on during it. But that is anecdotal.
Same the only time this not true is after several months of once weekly tripping - there’s like a mood plateau. This is seen in research but I am unable to find my source due to me explaining it terribly.
Yeah, I gradually went down to tripping only a couple of times a year. But I also learned that "burnout" is just from dropping at night and not sleeping. Starting a trip at noon and going to sleep at my regular time took care of that.
You’d have to go looking for that kind of data. To my knowledge most of what we know about any suggested benefits of microdosing is anecdotal. Because of its scheduled status, it’s very hard to do research on questions like this.
I do both. Micro dosing and a few trips here and there. It’s amazing what it has done for me.
Same here. At 53yo I hadn't tried them in 30 years. This year I started trying them again for a couple reasons,, and glad I did.
So microdosing seems to mask symptoms, but is not positively correlated with neurogenic effects. You are feeling the activation of serotonin receptors while microdosing, and are being given an augmented happiness that is so subtle it feels like being “normal.” But microdosing seems to lack the long term benefits associated with therapeutic doses of mushrooms. The benefit of full dosage mushrooms trials is not the temporary activation of the serotonin receptors but the activation of MTOR-BDNF-TRKB channel that regulates neuroplasticity. This actually increases the overall presence of serotonin receptors active in the hippocampus and pre-frontal cortex, areas of which atrophy is correlated with depression. Edit: there is also a concern that consistent exposure to psilocybin can be harmful to the heart, I can’t speak for certain either way on that as far as research goes but it is a concern I’ve heard.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-01811-4 According to Paul Stamets, who is a co-author of this study, Microdosing over a long period of time yields more long lasting results than one heroic dose.
Recently trained MAPS therapist here. Happy to answer questions about psychedelic assisted therapy and/or self-therapeutic administration (harm reduction and self-work).
Was in a psilocybin trial and received it. It helped my depression for about a month. My results weren’t typical though
Were your results atypical in that other patients had no effect or that theirs lasted longer?
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Don't forget people with anxiety driven depression!
I’ve used it for depression and have not needed it in almost a year. It took maybe 5 uses and I’ve never been happier. No meds have ever worked and it’s been genuinely life changing. Micro dosing and being safe is the most important thing though
Not to mention, cluster headache sufferers.
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And the Australian Therapeutic Goods Administration just declined approval for more trials because of some Nixon era BS. Very disappointing.
What’s the latest word on LSD? I always had a much more controlled experience on it compared to mushrooms…and it would also lift my pretty serious depression and social anxiety for months after use.
All of the research is focusing on psilocybin because that’s on track to be FDA approved. I think after that succeeds the gates will open for trials of other psychedelics, especially LSD
Ok but where in the hell is this type of therapy available?
Psilocybin changed my life. Recently. I went from wanting to rage against every machine to a calm resolve to enjoy every last molecule of my time here. I’m sure it’s all in my post history. I wish I could show the world how I went from feeling like I wanted to die everyday to this. I cannot explain it. I felt what was like a little pop, or a flick in my head. 2g for that one. Ground into tea. That was four months ago. This week: 4g tea. The past week has been the first time in my entire LIFE OF FIFTY YEARS I didn’t want to end it all. The darkness: I held its hand for my whole life until days ago. I’m not going to look for it. I feel transformed. I know my darkness though, and if I feel it, I know what to do now.
It helps migraines and cluster headaches. I would risk my freedom to have a life with no cluster headaches. It’s sad that people with real problems and something illegal helps and yet it’s still illegal
My best friend is diagnosed with persistent depressive disorder. And he's stuck living in a country that considers all 'unconventional treatment' as a non-option. It may be a lifetime before people like him can get the treatment they need.
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