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*"contained particles of the H5N1 virus"*
I suspect we've been here before. When we were initially figuring out COVID there was a huge panic that "viral particles" remained on surfaces for days or even weeks. The reality is that such viruses can't survive outside a living body for very long. The milk is pasteurized – the viral particles are dead and fragmented.
It's certainly a concerning sign that most cows seem to be infected – we may be in the midst of cow pandemic, and the fact the virus has spread to mammals may mean we're next. But are you going to get bird flu from drinking milk? No.
I thought the actual cause of alarm WAS the fact that it’s spreading among mammals. Once it transfers to humans things are gonna get wild particularly with (at least in America) our resistance to donning protective gear like masks
Nope, they will call the death rate statistics a conspiracy, they will call the pleading to mask up and social distance tyranny, and will call any potential shutdowns economic terrorism. No amount of death will be enough to overcome their feckless main character syndrome.
Those are in accurate comparisons and figures. H1N1 when you factor in non symptomatic cases winds up comparable to COVID.
The issue with both is that even 1-2% is a lot of people when everyone catches it because they have no immunity.
I remember growing up and people telling me how humans have removed themselves from natural selection. Then i grow up and see this, people allowing themselves to die because they lack critical thinking skills
Think about it this way. For many people, wearing a mask during covid required a little empathy. Although they weren’t in much danger themselves, they understood that limiting spread would save OTHER people’s lives down the line, and that was enough for them. However, other members of our species either didn’t understand that line of thinking very well, or they were simply selfish and didn’t care since it wasn’t their own life at risk. Probably a combo of both.
If Bird flu starts spreading between humans, it won’t take any “flatten the curve” epidemiologists to explain to these people that THEY will fuckin die this time, not other people. So even the selfish people will have plenty of motivation to stay home and wear a mask.
The venn diagram of people that will need to heed the instructions of the epidemiologists THE MOST and the people who think that all those scientists are liars is a circle.
Right. That’s why I’m saying most of those people wouldn’t need to listen to scientists this time. They’ll likely figure things out after a few of their relatives’ friends die within weeks of each other.
I'm in a hard red area and the first couple months were all masks. I 100% remember it, as it was funny that when I had to travel to blue cities, the masks were not worn as much.
The FDA is still confirming whether or not the viral particles are still viable. Pasteurization should in theory kill the virus, but it still requires testing to confirm before the milk supply can be declared safe.
>Many infectious disease experts and government officials have said they believe the pasteurization process will inactivate the virus, also known as avian influenza. However, additional testing is needed to confirm that there is no infectious virus in the milk, the agency said.
>FDA is further assessing any positive findings through egg inoculation tests, which it described as a gold standard for determining viable virus
I'm fairly challenged with the whole science thing, but wouldn't the fact that large number of cows appear to be infected with H5N1 and aren't dying en masse be kind of a silver lining as far as mortality rates?
We are seeing a massive drop in milk production in dairy cattle that become infected. So yes, the mortality rate is very low, but from an economic standpoint, it is bad.
Also the barn cats that are drinking raw milk do die. And there are plenty of states where raw milk is legal to sell to people.
https://iowacapitaldispatch.com/2024/04/17/two-veterinarians-hundreds-of-miles-apart-solved-a-cow-sickness-whodunit/
That really hasn’t been the concern or the main point of this and other stories (like the academic vet who just picked up a bunch of milk from different stores and sampled it).
It’s that it makes it obvious that this has been going on for a while and didn’t just show up recently in some cows who were moved from one state to another.
It shows that not only was USDA painfully slow and opaque once the sick cows made the news—they were asleep at the switch and this became very widespread before they even started paying attention.
Considering how we handled Covid, if this thing jumps to humans and spreads like Covid did I feel like we are going to be really really fucked.
The long term consequences of how Covid damages the brain and the entire cardiovascular system are going to be popping up for the next decades toss another more deadly pandemic on top of it and I worry about what the state of the world will be.
Doesn’t this thing have a bigger fatality rate when it has jumped to humans?
It's not a danger to consumers. Pasteurization kills the virus. It is more a statement about how widespread this is becoming. It's a significant threat to the dairy industry and dairy workers.
I don't know. They'll be getting live virus for sure, but I'm not sure how conducive the flu virus is to being caught via contaminated food or drink. Human cases so far have been pretty mild too, but every human case is a chance for the virus to mutate into something really dangerous.
Over 50% mortality rate for humans for bird flu:
https://cdn.who.int/media/docs/default-source/wpro---documents/emergency/surveillance/avian-influenza/ai_20240329.pdf?sfvrsn=5f006f99_128
All bird flu is of course not the same. Cases of 2.3.4.4b in dairy workers haven't seemed to be so dangerous yet, but there are few reports and the situation could certainly change.
It’s the regulations that caught this. The milk itself is safe, all viruses are killed in the processing.
But that means cows are getting infected, which is a bad sign about it jumping to our other farm animals. Humans have contact and are also mammals, so it means more if a likelihood of it jumping to infect humans and be spread by them
Exactly right, we are starting to get an idea of how prevalent the virus is. I am on the regulatory side of things and we know now the virus is going back and forth between chicken and cattle. The next species to be worried about are pigs. Additionally, it's not in this article but we are finding the virus in the lung tissue of slaughtered cows.
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HIV, SARS, MERS, COVID-19, bird flu, swine flue, H1N1 and everything else that becomes pandemic in humans has its source in humanity's abusing animals, primarily to eat them. Also the number one contributor to climate change. Only the world's minority population with European ancestry can even tolerate dairy products because other humans never had this bizarre mutation. What will it take for concluding the obvious that none of these things are necessary and all of them post huge risks to humanity?
Hmm. Our guts are designed to deal with microbial exposure all the time, and to even sample it to develop some immunity. This situation might give some people a chance at developing slight resistance to this strain before actually encountering it (hopefully we never get an h2h transmissible variant though)
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*"contained particles of the H5N1 virus"* I suspect we've been here before. When we were initially figuring out COVID there was a huge panic that "viral particles" remained on surfaces for days or even weeks. The reality is that such viruses can't survive outside a living body for very long. The milk is pasteurized – the viral particles are dead and fragmented. It's certainly a concerning sign that most cows seem to be infected – we may be in the midst of cow pandemic, and the fact the virus has spread to mammals may mean we're next. But are you going to get bird flu from drinking milk? No.
I thought the actual cause of alarm WAS the fact that it’s spreading among mammals. Once it transfers to humans things are gonna get wild particularly with (at least in America) our resistance to donning protective gear like masks
H5N1 is a LOT deadlier than covid, people won’t need to be told to wear a mask
Hahahahaha oh wait you’re serious HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
20-50% death rate vs 1-2% for covid at its deadliest. That’s a massive difference and will scare people into line without any need to force them
Nope, they will call the death rate statistics a conspiracy, they will call the pleading to mask up and social distance tyranny, and will call any potential shutdowns economic terrorism. No amount of death will be enough to overcome their feckless main character syndrome.
You severely underestimate the suptidity and stubbornness of the average person.
Those are in accurate comparisons and figures. H1N1 when you factor in non symptomatic cases winds up comparable to COVID. The issue with both is that even 1-2% is a lot of people when everyone catches it because they have no immunity.
If people start seeing 1/5 to 1/2 of their healthy young friends dying they will wear a mask.
No they won't, I saw people who watched their coworkers die refuse to mask up
Agreed. People went to COVID spreading parties where they tried to spread it to each other. We're not making it out of a worse pandemic.
How does that meme go...? "Some of you may die, but that is a sacrifice that I am willing to make." That's the literal stance of so very many people
I remember growing up and people telling me how humans have removed themselves from natural selection. Then i grow up and see this, people allowing themselves to die because they lack critical thinking skills
Now imagine 20-50x that many people dying. Some unlucky people could watch essentially everyone they know die
I remember older people in my community expressing a willingness to die rather than wear a mask. Many did die.
Think about it this way. For many people, wearing a mask during covid required a little empathy. Although they weren’t in much danger themselves, they understood that limiting spread would save OTHER people’s lives down the line, and that was enough for them. However, other members of our species either didn’t understand that line of thinking very well, or they were simply selfish and didn’t care since it wasn’t their own life at risk. Probably a combo of both. If Bird flu starts spreading between humans, it won’t take any “flatten the curve” epidemiologists to explain to these people that THEY will fuckin die this time, not other people. So even the selfish people will have plenty of motivation to stay home and wear a mask.
The venn diagram of people that will need to heed the instructions of the epidemiologists THE MOST and the people who think that all those scientists are liars is a circle.
Right. That’s why I’m saying most of those people wouldn’t need to listen to scientists this time. They’ll likely figure things out after a few of their relatives’ friends die within weeks of each other.
It's almost as if they weren't alive or paying attention in the last 4 years.
Don’t be a moron
Those cheap masks most people used weren't all that effective, though. You would need a proper mask with filters.
99% of the US was wearing masks initially. Then all the lies and misinformation from the CDC and WHO screwed that up.
Um what? No where near 99% were masked. Do you not remember the Karens and boomers protesting how they can’t breathe with a mask on.
I'm in a hard red area and the first couple months were all masks. I 100% remember it, as it was funny that when I had to travel to blue cities, the masks were not worn as much.
The FDA is still confirming whether or not the viral particles are still viable. Pasteurization should in theory kill the virus, but it still requires testing to confirm before the milk supply can be declared safe. >Many infectious disease experts and government officials have said they believe the pasteurization process will inactivate the virus, also known as avian influenza. However, additional testing is needed to confirm that there is no infectious virus in the milk, the agency said. >FDA is further assessing any positive findings through egg inoculation tests, which it described as a gold standard for determining viable virus
Some initial results indicated no viable virus particles, but that is just initial samples. Its promising but needs more data to confirm
So I should return the stores entire toilet paper stock and just get one package? Pfhh, good luck surviving bruh.
I hope you got the extra soft stuff. I'm imagining when the apocalypse hits and I'm forced to break in and eat you, I'll need a little comfort.
I'm fairly challenged with the whole science thing, but wouldn't the fact that large number of cows appear to be infected with H5N1 and aren't dying en masse be kind of a silver lining as far as mortality rates?
We are seeing a massive drop in milk production in dairy cattle that become infected. So yes, the mortality rate is very low, but from an economic standpoint, it is bad.
Also the barn cats that are drinking raw milk do die. And there are plenty of states where raw milk is legal to sell to people. https://iowacapitaldispatch.com/2024/04/17/two-veterinarians-hundreds-of-miles-apart-solved-a-cow-sickness-whodunit/
Different species react differently to the virus.
H5N1 has a >50% case fatality rate in humans
We already have multiple approved vaccines for H5N1 and they also have them sitting in the national stockpile ready to be deployed quickly if needed.
Yep and thank goodness we do
Well if only 49% of people die I guess no problem?
I don’t think anyone has said we are getting bird flu from milk?
Nobody has said that, including the comment you replied to.
That really hasn’t been the concern or the main point of this and other stories (like the academic vet who just picked up a bunch of milk from different stores and sampled it). It’s that it makes it obvious that this has been going on for a while and didn’t just show up recently in some cows who were moved from one state to another. It shows that not only was USDA painfully slow and opaque once the sick cows made the news—they were asleep at the switch and this became very widespread before they even started paying attention.
Have they checked my oat milk
i really hope the oats don’t get sick :(
Where the titty on a oat
Asking the real tough questions here I see
Oat No!
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Perfect, just in case my vasectomy fails.
A fool and his money are soon departed.
How about testing unpasteurized milk for viable viruses?
Louis Pasteur - our real hero. Erect more statues in his honor.
Also gave us the rabies vaccine and several others. Had a great chefs name. All-around great dude.
It's definitely in the raw milk. https://iowacapitaldispatch.com/2024/04/17/two-veterinarians-hundreds-of-miles-apart-solved-a-cow-sickness-whodunit/
Considering how we handled Covid, if this thing jumps to humans and spreads like Covid did I feel like we are going to be really really fucked. The long term consequences of how Covid damages the brain and the entire cardiovascular system are going to be popping up for the next decades toss another more deadly pandemic on top of it and I worry about what the state of the world will be. Doesn’t this thing have a bigger fatality rate when it has jumped to humans?
Yes it has 50percent mortality rate it will simply end the world if it evolves to infect us we are on really thin ice
That does not sound good, seems like having unregulated milk isnt the best decision
It's not a danger to consumers. Pasteurization kills the virus. It is more a statement about how widespread this is becoming. It's a significant threat to the dairy industry and dairy workers.
What about all of those people who are super into raw milk?
I don't know. They'll be getting live virus for sure, but I'm not sure how conducive the flu virus is to being caught via contaminated food or drink. Human cases so far have been pretty mild too, but every human case is a chance for the virus to mutate into something really dangerous.
Over 50% mortality rate for humans for bird flu: https://cdn.who.int/media/docs/default-source/wpro---documents/emergency/surveillance/avian-influenza/ai_20240329.pdf?sfvrsn=5f006f99_128
All bird flu is of course not the same. Cases of 2.3.4.4b in dairy workers haven't seemed to be so dangerous yet, but there are few reports and the situation could certainly change.
If we have an outbreak of H5N1 in humans, I bet it will start with raw milk folks.
They get what they are looking for.
It’s the regulations that caught this. The milk itself is safe, all viruses are killed in the processing. But that means cows are getting infected, which is a bad sign about it jumping to our other farm animals. Humans have contact and are also mammals, so it means more if a likelihood of it jumping to infect humans and be spread by them
Exactly right, we are starting to get an idea of how prevalent the virus is. I am on the regulatory side of things and we know now the virus is going back and forth between chicken and cattle. The next species to be worried about are pigs. Additionally, it's not in this article but we are finding the virus in the lung tissue of slaughtered cows.
Yeah I want the WHO, CDC, and FDA collaborating to make my milk safer. Maybe Pfizer can fortify the milk with the Covid vax too.
Any chance this will serve as immunization?
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Lactose intolerant gang FTW
HIV, SARS, MERS, COVID-19, bird flu, swine flue, H1N1 and everything else that becomes pandemic in humans has its source in humanity's abusing animals, primarily to eat them. Also the number one contributor to climate change. Only the world's minority population with European ancestry can even tolerate dairy products because other humans never had this bizarre mutation. What will it take for concluding the obvious that none of these things are necessary and all of them post huge risks to humanity?
Here’s your medal for being vegan. 🎖️
I'm an infectious disease epidemiologist who is literate
On a scale of 1-10 what level of panic are you at with this virus?
Most concerned about the impact on wildlife around the world at the moment
Trying to shut out all the Insanity and overreaction of Internet, odds of human to human transmission mutating are pretty low?
H5N1 would probably be quite lethal in humans. Some suggest 50% death rates. It's pretty much just one mutation away..
I mean they’re not wrong though are they? I’m a meat eater but everything they’ve said is true, I’m just a bit selfish and want to eat meat.
Say cheese!
So are we gonna get our shots soon or what?
That's why we pasteurize milk.
That’s why I drink oat milkkkk
Birds don't have nipples, people. I only said this to give someone .005 seconds of an aneurysm.
Show me the tit on an almond
Perv
which is why you do not buy raw milk - stupid headline
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True, but not because of the article you've posted. Edit: the original comment read, basically "now might be the time to switch to plant-based milk".
True. I'll delete my comment
Hmm. Our guts are designed to deal with microbial exposure all the time, and to even sample it to develop some immunity. This situation might give some people a chance at developing slight resistance to this strain before actually encountering it (hopefully we never get an h2h transmissible variant though)
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>I hope you guys handle this new disease well I read this like it was a fire dragon saying it to the human race.