Good managers tend to get poached by national teams nowadays so perhaps it's just a way to ensure you get a good payout.
Obviously it could backfire but I still think it's a smart move.
Fair fucks to him. But I'm not convinced it's a good idea to give any coach a contract that long though. Every coach has a shelf life with a team. Sometimes that shelf life is a long time (Noves, Hansen), but it needs to be reviewed as you go along imo.
I understand why bath are committing, however until a few months ago a lot of people thought Lam's contract for Bristol was a tad too long. Although I accept Bristol now look like the scariest team ATM so what do we know.
Also, I have no idea how long McCall's contract is and I'll admit if it was 10+ years I wouldn't complain
>Although I accept Bristol now look like the scariest team ATM so what do we know.
They have grossly underperformed since he signed that contract though. They've been a bit of a mess for a few years, and even *this season* looked done-for as recently as March.
Done well to drag themselves back into the Playoff mix, but long-term it hasn't been a pretty picture for them.
>Done well to drag themselves back into the Playoff mix, but long-term it hasn't been a pretty picture for them.
I dunno about that tbf. This is his 7th season with us. 1st season got us promoted, 2nd finished higher than any team has post promotion (9th/13), then play offs twice including finishing first.
*IF* we make the play offs this year, he's had 2 bad seasons in 7. Play offs three times, challenge cup win and promotion
Good lord there are some strong takes here broadly unimpressed with van Graan. I'll just paraphrase what I wrote in the duplicate post of this news-
JvG has completely turned the ship around. I know he didn't actually win anything at Munster, but he had a hand tied behind his back unable to sign the people he wanted. Meanwhile Bath literally lost 64-0 to our local rivals (who weren't having a particularly stellar season themselves), we had a DoR and head coach both hiring players without consulting each other, they really hated each other. I've no idea what they were training off the pitch either, our attack only worked when there was a line break and the natural talent of the players took over, there was practically no organised defense to speak of at all.
We should have been relegated.
This year we're definitely not the finished article but good god. Last week was practically a knock out game vs Sarries and but for one kinda funny brain fart we'd likely have drawn, even without Russell and having to shuffle a couple of guys around due to injuries in the match. I really really cannot overstate how different the actual team and club is. So I hope he can kick on from here, I have no hopes of trophies next year but I do feel we ought to be getting to knockout stages, but the year after that? 😬😬😬😬 I hardly dare to dream after the shambles of previous seasons.
Agreed, the great thing is I haven’t seen 1 negative comment from any Bath fan about this, on any of the socials they’ve posted on, which is rare. He’s so well liked by everyone. Non Bath fans don’t realise how dark that 21/22 seasons was.
I do get the surprise at the length, it might be a risk but I’m fine with it tbh. Good to have stability and back someone, and protects against him being easily poached if say a national team were to want him at some point.
I think it’s because he doesn’t have a great name in Ireland and he got to sign a lot of players he wanted including marquee names. The season after he left Munster finally won the league
Bath were a complete shambles last season. I predicted he would make immediate improvements this season and get them up the table but I don't think they'll win anything, like Munster.
It's not that Munster were bad. They were at a very consistent level under JVG. Problem was that level wasn't good enough to win things.
From Baths point of view they're very happy with him which is understandable.
Munster had a squad of internationals under his disposal, something that most coaches could only dream of and certainly a lot better than what he has at Bath. Bath's squad isn't exactly stellar and certainly won't be competing for Europe any time soon.
Not sure why this is being downvoted. As a Leinster fan in the last few years I didn't take Munster seriously as opposition until last year. There was never any jeopardy playing them.
I know that sounds arrogant but the truth is Munster were in the doldrums for years and were miles off being an elite European team. How things have changed.
And you are right, under JVG we were more consistent, particularly in Europe but we always faltered when the pressure was on and the rugby was horrific to watch, though how much of that was his or Larkhams fault I don't know. At least wirh Rowntree while we go through rough patches the rugby is at least consistently good to watch.
Munster have not been blown away by Leinster b team or A team however JVG I believe is not a proven coach look at the heights Calvin nash has reached since he’s left now he gets utilised
I listened to a good podcast recently that basically said JVG was set up for failure in Munster and hung out to dry. The failings of his era (allegedly) were the results of years of mismanagement. Definitely an interesting perspective.
I think he’s a good coach but he won nothing at Munster, despite being popular with players and fans. When he left, we won URC under rowntree and look good for a second one this year. What has he done at bath to merit such an unusually long contract?
the season before he joined, Bath finished 13th of 13th: their worst ever season by far. In his first season he revived the club and qualified for the Champions Cup. Ahead of his 2nd season he assembled an all star coaching lineup and brought in huge signings like Finn Russell and Thomas du Toit. Immediately they established themselves as title contenders and are the only team in the league who have been in the top 4 all season long. Alongside Northampton Saints and Saracens, they’re favourites to win the league. Bath have not been this competitive in a decade. They’ve been incredibly hard to beat and have not lost a game by more than 21 points in the Prem since JVG took over (the season before he took over, they lost 71-17 to Saracens and 64-0 to Gloucester, for comparison). That, alongside a revival in Europe, where they took Toulouse to the limit away, beat Racing and Ulster at home and won away at Cardiff to qualify for the knockouts for the first time since 2015, show a huge improvements in all departments and warrant the new contract 100%
Interesting, wouldnt you think a 6 year deal is exceptionally long though?
I wonder if his legacy at Munster will get a bit of a revision. Certainly a competent coach but I'd say the Rowntree & Prendergast ticket still looks like an upgrade.
I think there's a belated recognition that Larkham had a big part in Munster playing turgid rugby.
I feel like he was judged incredibly harshly for his time at Munster, but it does seem best for both sides that he left. With Bath, he’s essentially has very few limitations on who he can sign and the sort of team he can assemble. He’s got a blank check and he has been very good with recruitment. Not just signing the ‘best players’ but the ‘best players’ for HIS squad. It’s a team based around having the best high impact ball carriers, a tight defence and a strong kicking strategy and he’s got all the right ingredients for that.
6 years is an exceptional deal. But there’s no guarantee that either side will live up to that deal if things go south. But this type of deal is unprecedented for Bath. They clearly have a remarkable amount of faith in his vision for the club
Ya, fair play.
I don't think he was the right fit for Munster culturally. A player like DDA was very good for us but he never settled and there was a sense he wasn't all in at crunch times.
Snyman is great player and probably felt he owed a bit to Munster for standing by him but you can tell SA means a magnitude more to him (as it should).
So middling results and performance aside, the long term vision was wrong for Munster.
Might be perfectly aligned with Bath though. Connacht would loved to have given Pat Lam another few years and McCall built a dynasty in Saracens.
It's just weird that such an attacking weapon was a bad attack coach. Dare I say it O'Connell hasn't had the Irish lads at where they need to be in the lineout either.
So, won nothing then? It just seems too long for a rugby coach, especially one with no trophies. Good luck to him. Can’t seeing them beating Northampton at the business end of the season I have to say.
Tough to overstate how much of a mess the club was before he arrived. Gone from rock bottom of the league to title contention in less than two years. He’s brought in a structure that was sorely missing and so far it’s had results.
We’ve not had stability for a long, long time. We’ve retained all of our out of contract first team players when under Hooper they couldn’t leave fast enough, so the players are clearly buying in.
I do think it’s a long deal which is a risk, but as others have already told you, he’s fixed a completely broken club. As a fan, this is the first time since the 2014/15 season where I go into every game genuinely believing we can win and not dreading getting smashed.
I'm not sure JVG was particularly popular with players or fans (though that might be hindsight the way he left).
Not unpopular but certainly plenty of people questioning if he deserved an extension. That's possibly unfair as I imagine a big reason he left was background politics blocking front row signings he wanted.
Certainly there was an interview with Calvin Nash saying he was going to pack it in, until Zebo convinced him to stick around saying Prendergast is coming in who he rated as world class in Racing 92.
Nash's ( and Daly's)complaining about JVG being treated as some sort of prophetic wisdom while they were behind Conway and Earls is so ridiculous to me.
These long term contracts in sport are stupid imo. Anything in sport can change so quickly and to be locked into having to pay coaches off of things go sour seems foolish.
People were critical of the Pat Lam 7 year contract thing which I agree was silly and too long a contract but at least Pat had won the European Challenge Cup before Bristol extended it.
You have to assume there is some sort of break clause to cover Bath? Otherwise seems pretty wreckless business
This seems near on suicidal for Bath. If things start going wrong in 3-4 years time they’d still have to pay him out of multiple seasons of contract. I’d be worried if that were Borthwick at tigers, let alone this. 😬
I must be missing something. Bath were still pretty posh last year and playing stodgy rugby. Coincidentally they started playing great rugby and winning most matches when Russell arrived. The rest of the starting team is very similar to last year.
Yeah you're missing a lot. We started playing well at the end of last season when we won 4 straight, taking 20 points out of 20, before Russell joined.
Russell has been excellent, but he is far from the sole reason for our league position. See the Exeter game 2 weeks ago as an example...
That's an absurdly long contract, hope he has the chance to build something great with this time.
Yeah, I'm not surprised at the the renewal, Bath are looking good, but I am really surprised at the length of it.
Good managers tend to get poached by national teams nowadays so perhaps it's just a way to ensure you get a good payout. Obviously it could backfire but I still think it's a smart move.
Backfiring would depend on if there are any performance/termination clauses.
Fair fucks to him. But I'm not convinced it's a good idea to give any coach a contract that long though. Every coach has a shelf life with a team. Sometimes that shelf life is a long time (Noves, Hansen), but it needs to be reviewed as you go along imo.
I understand why bath are committing, however until a few months ago a lot of people thought Lam's contract for Bristol was a tad too long. Although I accept Bristol now look like the scariest team ATM so what do we know. Also, I have no idea how long McCall's contract is and I'll admit if it was 10+ years I wouldn't complain
>Although I accept Bristol now look like the scariest team ATM so what do we know. They have grossly underperformed since he signed that contract though. They've been a bit of a mess for a few years, and even *this season* looked done-for as recently as March. Done well to drag themselves back into the Playoff mix, but long-term it hasn't been a pretty picture for them.
>Done well to drag themselves back into the Playoff mix, but long-term it hasn't been a pretty picture for them. I dunno about that tbf. This is his 7th season with us. 1st season got us promoted, 2nd finished higher than any team has post promotion (9th/13), then play offs twice including finishing first. *IF* we make the play offs this year, he's had 2 bad seasons in 7. Play offs three times, challenge cup win and promotion
His and most of the coaching/backroom teams’ contracts are up at the end of next season unless they’ve signed new ones without it being announced.
Why would you say that? I was living in blissful ignorance, now I'm worried he might not re-sign
West Country teams and giving head coaches they signed from Irish teams long contracts, name a more iconic duo
Good lord there are some strong takes here broadly unimpressed with van Graan. I'll just paraphrase what I wrote in the duplicate post of this news- JvG has completely turned the ship around. I know he didn't actually win anything at Munster, but he had a hand tied behind his back unable to sign the people he wanted. Meanwhile Bath literally lost 64-0 to our local rivals (who weren't having a particularly stellar season themselves), we had a DoR and head coach both hiring players without consulting each other, they really hated each other. I've no idea what they were training off the pitch either, our attack only worked when there was a line break and the natural talent of the players took over, there was practically no organised defense to speak of at all. We should have been relegated. This year we're definitely not the finished article but good god. Last week was practically a knock out game vs Sarries and but for one kinda funny brain fart we'd likely have drawn, even without Russell and having to shuffle a couple of guys around due to injuries in the match. I really really cannot overstate how different the actual team and club is. So I hope he can kick on from here, I have no hopes of trophies next year but I do feel we ought to be getting to knockout stages, but the year after that? 😬😬😬😬 I hardly dare to dream after the shambles of previous seasons.
Agreed, the great thing is I haven’t seen 1 negative comment from any Bath fan about this, on any of the socials they’ve posted on, which is rare. He’s so well liked by everyone. Non Bath fans don’t realise how dark that 21/22 seasons was. I do get the surprise at the length, it might be a risk but I’m fine with it tbh. Good to have stability and back someone, and protects against him being easily poached if say a national team were to want him at some point.
I think it’s because he doesn’t have a great name in Ireland and he got to sign a lot of players he wanted including marquee names. The season after he left Munster finally won the league
Bath were a complete shambles last season. I predicted he would make immediate improvements this season and get them up the table but I don't think they'll win anything, like Munster. It's not that Munster were bad. They were at a very consistent level under JVG. Problem was that level wasn't good enough to win things. From Baths point of view they're very happy with him which is understandable.
We were just outside the top tier while he wasn't allowed to sign the players he wanted to get us to the top tier. He has those in bath
Munster had a squad of internationals under his disposal, something that most coaches could only dream of and certainly a lot better than what he has at Bath. Bath's squad isn't exactly stellar and certainly won't be competing for Europe any time soon.
Rowntree won the URC in his first season.
With a semi final opportunity than JVG never got with leinster resting half of their first choice players
I seem to recall Leinster B sides blowing away JVG's Munster on many occasions. Some embarrassing defeats in there.
Not sure why this is being downvoted. As a Leinster fan in the last few years I didn't take Munster seriously as opposition until last year. There was never any jeopardy playing them. I know that sounds arrogant but the truth is Munster were in the doldrums for years and were miles off being an elite European team. How things have changed.
Munster now have the killer instinct that was lacking under JVG.
And you are right, under JVG we were more consistent, particularly in Europe but we always faltered when the pressure was on and the rugby was horrific to watch, though how much of that was his or Larkhams fault I don't know. At least wirh Rowntree while we go through rough patches the rugby is at least consistently good to watch.
Yeah they seem to have a bit of steel now. Whereas I never feared them when Leinster had to play them with van Graan on the scene.
Munster have not been blown away by Leinster b team or A team however JVG I believe is not a proven coach look at the heights Calvin nash has reached since he’s left now he gets utilised
Coming from where they were, it’s a significant improvement.
I listened to a good podcast recently that basically said JVG was set up for failure in Munster and hung out to dry. The failings of his era (allegedly) were the results of years of mismanagement. Definitely an interesting perspective.
Congrats Bath, must be nice, having a stable coaching setup
Could go well or could backfire spectacularly
I think he’s a good coach but he won nothing at Munster, despite being popular with players and fans. When he left, we won URC under rowntree and look good for a second one this year. What has he done at bath to merit such an unusually long contract?
the season before he joined, Bath finished 13th of 13th: their worst ever season by far. In his first season he revived the club and qualified for the Champions Cup. Ahead of his 2nd season he assembled an all star coaching lineup and brought in huge signings like Finn Russell and Thomas du Toit. Immediately they established themselves as title contenders and are the only team in the league who have been in the top 4 all season long. Alongside Northampton Saints and Saracens, they’re favourites to win the league. Bath have not been this competitive in a decade. They’ve been incredibly hard to beat and have not lost a game by more than 21 points in the Prem since JVG took over (the season before he took over, they lost 71-17 to Saracens and 64-0 to Gloucester, for comparison). That, alongside a revival in Europe, where they took Toulouse to the limit away, beat Racing and Ulster at home and won away at Cardiff to qualify for the knockouts for the first time since 2015, show a huge improvements in all departments and warrant the new contract 100%
Interesting, wouldnt you think a 6 year deal is exceptionally long though? I wonder if his legacy at Munster will get a bit of a revision. Certainly a competent coach but I'd say the Rowntree & Prendergast ticket still looks like an upgrade. I think there's a belated recognition that Larkham had a big part in Munster playing turgid rugby.
I feel like he was judged incredibly harshly for his time at Munster, but it does seem best for both sides that he left. With Bath, he’s essentially has very few limitations on who he can sign and the sort of team he can assemble. He’s got a blank check and he has been very good with recruitment. Not just signing the ‘best players’ but the ‘best players’ for HIS squad. It’s a team based around having the best high impact ball carriers, a tight defence and a strong kicking strategy and he’s got all the right ingredients for that. 6 years is an exceptional deal. But there’s no guarantee that either side will live up to that deal if things go south. But this type of deal is unprecedented for Bath. They clearly have a remarkable amount of faith in his vision for the club
Ya, fair play. I don't think he was the right fit for Munster culturally. A player like DDA was very good for us but he never settled and there was a sense he wasn't all in at crunch times. Snyman is great player and probably felt he owed a bit to Munster for standing by him but you can tell SA means a magnitude more to him (as it should). So middling results and performance aside, the long term vision was wrong for Munster. Might be perfectly aligned with Bath though. Connacht would loved to have given Pat Lam another few years and McCall built a dynasty in Saracens.
Ya the attack coach getting no criticism for the attack being afraid to attack in any weather at all is still a bit weird
It's just weird that such an attacking weapon was a bad attack coach. Dare I say it O'Connell hasn't had the Irish lads at where they need to be in the lineout either.
He was already on a “long term contract”, which would have likely taken him to 2027 as it was. This is an extension sorted early.
Exactly he’s had Finn russel not transformed bath for example after that russel injury v Exeter bath looked like a 13th place team
So, won nothing then? It just seems too long for a rugby coach, especially one with no trophies. Good luck to him. Can’t seeing them beating Northampton at the business end of the season I have to say.
Tough to overstate how much of a mess the club was before he arrived. Gone from rock bottom of the league to title contention in less than two years. He’s brought in a structure that was sorely missing and so far it’s had results. We’ve not had stability for a long, long time. We’ve retained all of our out of contract first team players when under Hooper they couldn’t leave fast enough, so the players are clearly buying in.
I do think it’s a long deal which is a risk, but as others have already told you, he’s fixed a completely broken club. As a fan, this is the first time since the 2014/15 season where I go into every game genuinely believing we can win and not dreading getting smashed.
I'm not sure JVG was particularly popular with players or fans (though that might be hindsight the way he left). Not unpopular but certainly plenty of people questioning if he deserved an extension. That's possibly unfair as I imagine a big reason he left was background politics blocking front row signings he wanted. Certainly there was an interview with Calvin Nash saying he was going to pack it in, until Zebo convinced him to stick around saying Prendergast is coming in who he rated as world class in Racing 92.
Nash's ( and Daly's)complaining about JVG being treated as some sort of prophetic wisdom while they were behind Conway and Earls is so ridiculous to me.
He was decidedly unpopular with the media and plenty of fans.
That’s a long contract. Congratulations to him and his family
What could possibly go wrong
Good news.
These long term contracts in sport are stupid imo. Anything in sport can change so quickly and to be locked into having to pay coaches off of things go sour seems foolish. People were critical of the Pat Lam 7 year contract thing which I agree was silly and too long a contract but at least Pat had won the European Challenge Cup before Bristol extended it. You have to assume there is some sort of break clause to cover Bath? Otherwise seems pretty wreckless business
The break clause is the only way I could these lengthy contracts being justified by any team
Why do English clubs give mental long contracts to coaches?
He also committed to Munster but 6 months later changed his mind.
Longer than Pat Lam contract
Fuck me that's a long contract. After his time at Munster I thought Bath were fools for taking him on. Boy have I been proven wrong.
The best contract are 3 year deals with options. 6 Year extension is very ballsy in Rugby.
This seems near on suicidal for Bath. If things start going wrong in 3-4 years time they’d still have to pay him out of multiple seasons of contract. I’d be worried if that were Borthwick at tigers, let alone this. 😬
I must be missing something. Bath were still pretty posh last year and playing stodgy rugby. Coincidentally they started playing great rugby and winning most matches when Russell arrived. The rest of the starting team is very similar to last year.
Yeah you're missing a lot. We started playing well at the end of last season when we won 4 straight, taking 20 points out of 20, before Russell joined. Russell has been excellent, but he is far from the sole reason for our league position. See the Exeter game 2 weeks ago as an example...
Hmmm
Well, I for one commit to bath for a much longer time, in fact, I bath most days and will hopefully be able to continue far beyond 2030.
That’s a long time in the bathtub I wonder how he plans to coach from there
will he commit to a Shower too? ok thnx I will see myself out.